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(WMTW Portland)   Tea Party-friendly education group ranks Louisiana and Florida schools highest in the country, counts to potato   (wmtw.com) divider line 143
    More: Dumbass, Maine, report cards, Michelle Rhee, academic rank, Biddeford, potatoes, charter schools  
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7428 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jan 2013 at 4:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-07 05:29:32 PM
Maybe Subby could use some education in reading comprehension.
 
2013-01-07 05:30:56 PM
In Maine, being able to count to potato is a good skill to have, subby deah.
 
2013-01-07 05:31:23 PM
Michelle Rhee is an asshole, but she's not a Tea Partier.
She's just continuing her march from media darling (when Waiting for Superman came out) to irrelevancy (beginning when D.C. voters ousted their mayor when he refused to fire her).

Anyway, whatever grading scale gives LA and FL a "B" while giving MN a "D"... I don't think I want to improve my score. Thanksverymuch anyway.
 
2013-01-07 05:31:34 PM

groppet: Alabama schools come in 3rd?


They're ranked second, behind Notre Dame.

/oops, wrong thread

//so sorry
 
2013-01-07 05:31:57 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: Crotchrocket Slim:

So basically a bunch of utterly useless, ideologically inspired metrics that do nothing to judge how well students themselves actually perform after attending this schools, yes?

And to think I wanted a Fark preview function for years as I thought this would finally kill these sorts of self-correction posts


When I first read your comment, I didn't even notice that it said "useful" rather than "useless."  My brain auto-corrected your post.
 
2013-01-07 05:33:08 PM

groppet: Alabama schools come in 3rd?


Didn't they almost shut down their public schools a few years ago?
 
2013-01-07 05:34:20 PM

mgshamster: In case anyone wants to see the actual report, here it is.

And here's the map:

[s1.postimage.org image 469x340]

There are three primary categories:
1) Elevate Teaching
2) Empower Parents
3) Spend Wisely & Govern Well

Plus an "Overall" category that combines the scores to give the map above.


Elevate Teaching: How much the teacher can teach whatever they want, as long as it's about Jesus. Also suitably vague to give high marks to anyone who we want in first place

Empower Parents: If mom wants Billy to learn the Earth is flat, by golly, we'll teach it!

Spend Wisely and Govern Well: Crush Unions
 
2013-01-07 05:34:38 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: They've placed more than 88% of their graduates at Clem's Refrigerator and Exotic Dance College. Go Frosted Tassels!!


Winner of the thread right here.
 
2013-01-07 05:34:50 PM
I find it funny that NH gets a GPA of .77 for elevating teaching in this system and LA gets a GPA of 3.77 even though LA is 47 in math and 49 in reading and NH is ranked 6th in both. This tells me that NH is doing more to elevate teaching than LA. Or if you want to compare LA to a state with a comparable sized population look at IL. IL ranked 27 in both reading and math and only received a 1.36.
 
2013-01-07 05:35:31 PM

Wook: /obligatory bump for my friends in the Tea Party. I could care less what a card carrying democrat will ever think of me. Flame on biatches.


Were you trying to say "card-carrying democrat," jeaniuos boy?


/Come caca, pendejo. Ma ga hai, etc.
 
2013-01-07 05:36:02 PM
Taught Enough Already
 
2013-01-07 05:36:37 PM

ongbok: I find it funny that NH gets a GPA of .77 for elevating teaching in this system and LA gets a GPA of 3.77 even though LA is 47 in math and 49 in reading and NH is ranked 6th in both. This tells me that NH is doing more to elevate teaching than LA. Or if you want to compare LA to a state with a comparable sized population look at IL. IL ranked 27 in both reading and math and only received a 1.36.


That's because this evaluation isn't about student performance.  It's about spending less money and creating greater competition.

/At least, that's from what I can tell so far.
 
2013-01-07 05:38:55 PM

ongbok: I find it funny that NH gets a GPA of .77 for elevating teaching in this system and LA gets a GPA of 3.77 even though LA is 47 in math and 49 in reading and NH is ranked 6th in both


Now that's what I call putting Students First.
 
2013-01-07 05:39:47 PM
BunkyBrewman: "Maybe it is time to reconsider allowing secession."

We've got enough problems with one near-failed state to our south.
If you take away our buffer and let the fail parade march North, sane people will be forced into Canada.

/ You think those people can exist without the blue-state subsidy? The "get your government out of my Medicare" crowd? They'll move north.
// Florida would have been made Greece look like the model of economic prudence if it had to pay its citizens' social security and medicare bills after the bubble burst
/// And then Ohio becomes New Florida
 
2013-01-07 05:40:41 PM
TEA PARTY???!!! That charge is a complete pile of bullshiat from a so-called educator who's hegemony is threatened by this organization that wants parents to have better control over the schools, and for kids to get a better education.
That 'Tea Pary' charge is a feeble attempt to make this organizatin shut up; to dismiss it as an organization not worth listening-to.

[Btw, Yes, traditionally Lousianna and Florida have had mediocre school systems, but these state have made large strides over the past few years to correct that.]

Here's the bio of Michelle Rhee -- Does this sound like a Tea Party Activist? Of course not. She's better educated than the person throwing that 'Tea Pary' epithet.

"Michelle Rhee currently serves on the Advisory Boards for the National Council on Teacher Quality, the National Center for Alternative Certification, and Project REACH of the University of Phoenix's School of Education.
Michelle has a bachelor's degree in government from Cornell University and a master's in public policy from Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government." -- Oh yeah, she's a Tea Partier!

The 'Dumbass' label deserves to go to the person who labeled this story 'Dumbass'.
 
2013-01-07 05:41:33 PM

mgshamster: ongbok: I find it funny that NH gets a GPA of .77 for elevating teaching in this system and LA gets a GPA of 3.77 even though LA is 47 in math and 49 in reading and NH is ranked 6th in both. This tells me that NH is doing more to elevate teaching than LA. Or if you want to compare LA to a state with a comparable sized population look at IL. IL ranked 27 in both reading and math and only received a 1.36.

That's because this evaluation isn't about student performance.  It's about spending less money and creating greater competition.

/At least, that's from what I can tell so far.


So to hell with student performance, lets not try to emulate the places that are doing good, lets just spend less and create more competition (whatever that means in teaching).
 
2013-01-07 05:44:03 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: Michelle Rhee = useful idiot

She was an abject failure in improving DC schools. Rhee's a much better self-promoter than education reformer.


Is that why they continued the same reforms under the new mayor, but with Rhee's old sidekick as the new chancellor? They're doing the same programs, but doing them "nicer" (kissing the asses of the bureaucracy and the unions and keeping the palms greased) and slower (so as to not spook anyone into thinking they won't get their cut of the pie anymore).
 
2013-01-07 05:44:08 PM

Crotchrocket Slim: bgflores: Wook: /obligatory bump for my friends in the Tea Party. I could care less what a card carrying democrat will ever think of me. Flame on biatches.

Thus displaying how Teaducation has benefited you. If you "could" care less, then you care more than you should. The proper usage is "couldn't care less", thereby signifying that you have no regard for what others think of you.

As much as I like flimsy excuses to flame Teahadists this has debate has been somewhat settled recently in that both forms actually mean the same thing in every day usage (though in more formal settings you are still 100% correct bgflores
/fair is fair
//kicking myself for not mocking the 'bagger for his potentially intentional use error too


Who recently settled this debate that would allow contradictory phrases to mean the same thing?
 
2013-01-07 05:46:01 PM

ongbok: mgshamster: ongbok: I find it funny that NH gets a GPA of .77 for elevating teaching in this system and LA gets a GPA of 3.77 even though LA is 47 in math and 49 in reading and NH is ranked 6th in both. This tells me that NH is doing more to elevate teaching than LA. Or if you want to compare LA to a state with a comparable sized population look at IL. IL ranked 27 in both reading and math and only received a 1.36.

That's because this evaluation isn't about student performance.  It's about spending less money and creating greater competition.

/At least, that's from what I can tell so far.

So to hell with student performance, lets not try to emulate the places that are doing good, lets just spend less and create more competition (whatever that means in teaching).


I think it's an idea similar to the voucher system.  If the school your child is at is bad, you should be able to take your child out of that school and put them in another school that is good. Doing this, I am told, will create competition amongst the local schools to create the best school, because schools want the most children they can get (because each child comes with the tax money to teach him/her, and the schools want that money).  I'm not sure how this system accounts for space available, the quality of teachers, or the infrastructure of getting the kids to the school of the parent's choice, nor what it will do in areas that don't have more than one school, but it will work, I am told.
 
2013-01-07 05:47:45 PM
Sounds all truthish and stuff. Truthy? Whatever it's totally true.
 
2013-01-07 05:47:45 PM

Holocaust Agnostic: Having gone to a Louisiana public high-school, I'm giving this study the side eyes.


Hey, me too. Except I went to the "special school" and didn't have to go to the regular school with all the retards. I saw what they were doing and it was scary.
 
2013-01-07 05:48:29 PM

ongbok: So to hell with student performance, lets not try to emulate the places that are doing good, lets just spend less and create more competition (whatever that means in teaching).


Mostly axing things that unions have fought for... tenure, pensions, those kinds of things.

Come to think of it, though Rhee isn't a Tea Partier herself, describing her group as "Tea Party Friendly" may not be so inaccurate..
 
2013-01-07 05:51:12 PM
Looking at their methodology, a school system operating effectively has nothing to do with whether students actually learn anything. It's all about limiting the power of unions and cutting the cost of public education by funneling money to the private sector. Link
 
2013-01-07 05:51:40 PM

tallguywithglasseson: ongbok: So to hell with student performance, lets not try to emulate the places that are doing good, lets just spend less and create more competition (whatever that means in teaching).

Mostly axing things that unions have fought for... tenure, pensions, those kinds of things.

Come to think of it, though Rhee isn't a Tea Partier herself, describing her group as "Tea Party Friendly" may not be so inaccurate..


One of the things they're fighting for (at least in California) is ending the seniority based lay-off system. They want to lay off teachers based on effectiveness rather than senoirity. Link
 
2013-01-07 05:54:00 PM
Subby, You forgot the E in Potatoe
 
2013-01-07 05:54:02 PM
Anyone who calls Michelle Rhee a Tea Partier only tells me that their statements are not to be trusted. Love her or hate her, you'd have to be ignorant or lying to suggest she has anything to do with the Tea Party.

So yeah, I think I'll believe the governor on this one and not the president of the teachers union.
 
2013-01-07 05:56:04 PM

trippdogg: Looking at their methodology, a school system operating effectively has nothing to do with whether students actually learn anything. It's all about limiting the power of unions and cutting the cost of public education by funneling money to the private sector. Link


One of the things they want to get rid of is a pay increase for having a master's degree or for continuing education.  Wow.
 
2013-01-07 05:59:08 PM

mgshamster: trippdogg: Looking at their methodology, a school system operating effectively has nothing to do with whether students actually learn anything. It's all about limiting the power of unions and cutting the cost of public education by funneling money to the private sector. Link

One of the things they want to get rid of is a pay increase for having a master's degree or for continuing education.  Wow.


They also want people to be able to teach without a bachelor's degree.  "Subject Matter/Content Knowledge" should be enough, to be evaluated by a test.
 
2013-01-07 06:00:50 PM

mgshamster: One of the things they want to get rid of is a pay increase for having a master's degree or for continuing education. Wow.


Is a MS useful in teaching?  My engineering MS wasn't a total waste of money and time, but it was pretty close.

It's good to reward someone who keeps trying to get better at what they do but at the same time people should probably only put the time into a degree if it's actually going to help.
 
2013-01-07 06:01:48 PM
I love how we can just make up our own reality and call it truth. And then get like-minded people to sponsor groups that then conduct "studies" to further their own agenda and worldview.
 
2013-01-07 06:03:01 PM

Billy Bathsalt: Wook: /obligatory bump for my friends in the Tea Party. I could care less what a card carrying democrat will ever think of me. Flame on biatches.

Were you trying to say "card-carrying democrat," jeaniuos boy?



What cards carrying democrats might look like

i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-07 06:04:03 PM

mgshamster: One of the things they're fighting for (at least in California) is ending the seniority based lay-off system. They want to lay off teachers based on effectiveness rather than senoirity. Link


Or just fire willy-nilly as Rhee did in D.C. Either way, not exactly anti-Tea Party.

mongbiohazard: So yeah, I think I'll believe the governor on this one and not the president of the teachers union.


You mean Maine's Tea Party governor was friendly to Rhee's group?
 
2013-01-07 06:04:29 PM
Not tea party. In fact, if they included, "Let charter schools fend for themselves financially" then it would be an great report. There should be as many charter schools as people want, but not at the expense the public schools systems dollar.

The school unions are awful (not all unions).

Seniority based lay offs are Rhee Rhee.
 
2013-01-07 06:07:52 PM
You know, in science, when your model gives you a model that's the opposite of reality, you revise the model.

Apparently in Derpville, when your model contradicts reality, reality is the one making a mistake.
 
2013-01-07 06:08:34 PM

tallguywithglasseson: mgshamster: One of the things they're fighting for (at least in California) is ending the seniority based lay-off system. They want to lay off teachers based on effectiveness rather than senoirity. Link

Or just fire willy-nilly as Rhee did in D.C. Either way, not exactly anti-Tea Party.


If one were to fire/hire people based on effectiveness, they better have a damn good system for determining how effective a teach really is.  Our current student standardized test scores are a really poor way to judge a teacher on their ability to teach.  So far, I haven't seen anything from Students First that details out an effective measurement for teaching ability; only that we must base our decisions on how well teachers do, rather than how long they've been there.  I'm still reading, though, so I might come upon something later.
 
2013-01-07 06:09:47 PM
www.troll.me
 
2013-01-07 06:10:11 PM

mgshamster: ongbok: mgshamster: ongbok: I find it funny that NH gets a GPA of .77 for elevating teaching in this system and LA gets a GPA of 3.77 even though LA is 47 in math and 49 in reading and NH is ranked 6th in both. This tells me that NH is doing more to elevate teaching than LA. Or if you want to compare LA to a state with a comparable sized population look at IL. IL ranked 27 in both reading and math and only received a 1.36.

That's because this evaluation isn't about student performance.  It's about spending less money and creating greater competition.

/At least, that's from what I can tell so far.

So to hell with student performance, lets not try to emulate the places that are doing good, lets just spend less and create more competition (whatever that means in teaching).

I think it's an idea similar to the voucher system.  If the school your child is at is bad, you should be able to take your child out of that school and put them in another school that is good. Doing this, I am told, will create competition amongst the local schools to create the best school, because schools want the most children they can get (because each child comes with the tax money to teach him/her, and the schools want that money).  I'm not sure how this system accounts for space available, the quality of teachers, or the infrastructure of getting the kids to the school of the parent's choice, nor what it will do in areas that don't have more than one school, but it will work, I am told.


Well, we've already tried a version of this at the collegiate level. Everyone can get a student loan and take that loan to whatever institute calling itself a college that they want. In response, instead of more Harvards and CalTechs magicially popping up due to competition, we've seen a much greater number of a new beast appear: the for profit college, e.g. ITT, Univ of Phoenix, Devry, etc. Also, college costs have increased greater than the rate of inflation for 40+ years.
 
2013-01-07 06:13:09 PM

mgshamster: trippdogg: Looking at their methodology, a school system operating effectively has nothing to do with whether students actually learn anything. It's all about limiting the power of unions and cutting the cost of public education by funneling money to the private sector. Link

One of the things they want to get rid of is a pay increase for having a master's degree or for continuing education.  Wow.


My favorite: "The state has no class size restrictions above third grade." Because warehousing 4th graders in lots of 500 is a much more effective learning environment.
 
2013-01-07 06:13:40 PM
If'in you can pick a banjo go to the head of the class.
 
2013-01-07 06:14:16 PM

vpb: Louisiana was the highest rated.  I'll bet Mainers really envy Louisiana's education system.


as a LA resident and living just outside of New Orleans i can assure you the rating is seriously flawed. given that Jindal's voucher program got beat back in court tells you something too.
 
2013-01-07 06:14:46 PM

Ray Vaughn: Crotchrocket Slim: bgflores: Wook: /obligatory bump for my friends in the Tea Party. I could care less what a card carrying democrat will ever think of me. Flame on biatches.

Thus displaying how Teaducation has benefited you. If you "could" care less, then you care more than you should. The proper usage is "couldn't care less", thereby signifying that you have no regard for what others think of you.

As much as I like flimsy excuses to flame Teahadists this has debate has been somewhat settled recently in that both forms actually mean the same thing in every day usage (though in more formal settings you are still 100% correct bgflores
/fair is fair
//kicking myself for not mocking the 'bagger for his potentially intentional use error too

Who recently settled this debate that would allow contradictory phrases to mean the same thing?


The Oxford Dictionary, for one

Like I said, this is mostly for informal communication, for formal communication the older standards I assume you're supporting still apply.
 
2013-01-07 06:15:28 PM

you have pee hands: mgshamster: One of the things they want to get rid of is a pay increase for having a master's degree or for continuing education. Wow.

Is a MS useful in teaching?  My engineering MS wasn't a total waste of money and time, but it was pretty close.

It's good to reward someone who keeps trying to get better at what they do but at the same time people should probably only put the time into a degree if it's actually going to help.


Depends on how we define "useful." I'm of the opinion that advanced knowledge on a subject can help illuminate the subject when teaching it to others; of course, that individual must first be good at actually imparting information.  I am aware that advanced knowledge might not help you land a job or perform the very specific duties of one specific company, but I find it difficult to believe that it won't help in teaching. (depending on what level one is actually teaching).

/Of course, if it is an intellectually poor program or a program lacking in rigor, then no, it would not help with anything
//As always, I'm willing to change my opinions with further knowledge.
 
2013-01-07 06:16:31 PM

crazydave023: I love how we can just make up our own reality and call it truth. And then get like-minded people to sponsor groups that then conduct "studies" to further their own agenda and worldview.


when a nations government leads the way others are sure to follow.
 
2013-01-07 06:19:42 PM

trippdogg: mgshamster: trippdogg: Looking at their methodology, a school system operating effectively has nothing to do with whether students actually learn anything. It's all about limiting the power of unions and cutting the cost of public education by funneling money to the private sector. Link

One of the things they want to get rid of is a pay increase for having a master's degree or for continuing education.  Wow.

My favorite: "The state has no class size restrictions above third grade." Because warehousing 4th graders in lots of 500 is a much more effective learning environment.


Wow. Just wow.  I have a hard enough time handling that many students at the college level - people who actually want to be there (more or less).  I can't imagine how difficult it would be to handle class sizes that large in a middle school or high school.

Also, have you listened to this? "Two Steps Back" (audio, 1 hour, transcripts available in link).  It's the tale of how one school radically reformed education for the better in a very poor neighborhood, and how the district managed to subsequently destroy a system that worked.
 
2013-01-07 06:23:17 PM

Persnickety: mgshamster: ongbok: mgshamster: ongbok: I find it funny that NH gets a GPA of .77 for elevating teaching in this system and LA gets a GPA of 3.77 even though LA is 47 in math and 49 in reading and NH is ranked 6th in both. This tells me that NH is doing more to elevate teaching than LA. Or if you want to compare LA to a state with a comparable sized population look at IL. IL ranked 27 in both reading and math and only received a 1.36.

That's because this evaluation isn't about student performance.  It's about spending less money and creating greater competition.

/At least, that's from what I can tell so far.

So to hell with student performance, lets not try to emulate the places that are doing good, lets just spend less and create more competition (whatever that means in teaching).

I think it's an idea similar to the voucher system.  If the school your child is at is bad, you should be able to take your child out of that school and put them in another school that is good. Doing this, I am told, will create competition amongst the local schools to create the best school, because schools want the most children they can get (because each child comes with the tax money to teach him/her, and the schools want that money).  I'm not sure how this system accounts for space available, the quality of teachers, or the infrastructure of getting the kids to the school of the parent's choice, nor what it will do in areas that don't have more than one school, but it will work, I am told.

Well, we've already tried a version of this at the collegiate level. Everyone can get a student loan and take that loan to whatever institute calling itself a college that they want. In response, instead of more Harvards and CalTechs magicially popping up due to competition, we've seen a much greater number of a new beast appear: the for profit college, e.g. ITT, Univ of Phoenix, Devry, etc. Also, college costs have increased greater than the rate of inflation for 40+ years.


It kind of calls into question how well the competition model works when the product is only going to be sold once per person per lifetime.
 
2013-01-07 06:31:11 PM
The derp level just reached 9001.
 
2013-01-07 06:34:48 PM

H31N0US: The amount of derp from the Tea Party is farking astounding.


It's the Koch brothers. Honestly, I don't even have to look this one up, I just know it.
 
2013-01-07 06:42:32 PM
Eye wint two publik skool en Loosiena an gradji gredj fineshed jist fyne sew a'm getin ay kik owtta thes string thred
 
2013-01-07 06:44:30 PM
I see. This is some anti-union douche named Rhee who takes money from Rupert Murderdoch, The Cock brothers, and various big corporations that hate Amercia. He also inflated test scores... wants to get rid of caps on charter schools... it's so transparent an agenda, and the right wing idiots out there just lap it up thinking about how big that fascist dick will feel in their slavish gobs.
 
2013-01-07 06:45:27 PM
Shouldn't schools be ranked by how successful their students are when they grow up or if they are contributing citizens, rather than vague metrics like how funding is being spent or how much influence parents have on teaching creationism/historical revisionism?
 
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