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(Beatweek Magazine)   Apple-envy keeps companies like Google from achieving greatness   (beatweek.com) divider line 188
    More: Obvious, apples, Google, Windows PCs, system software, Android devices, usability, digital books, Microsoft Surface  
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2574 clicks; posted to Geek » on 07 Jan 2013 at 9:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-07 10:20:10 AM

zez: GameSprocket: Apple ("You don't need that."):
Hiding complexity to the point where it actually hinders capability (see the new Airport utility).

OMG don't get me started on that!

My apple fanboy brother had me look at his network because after they switched internet providers nothing was working right. I go to look at his time machine router thing's settings and all I see is a pretty picture of the earth and great renderings of the different routers and extenders he had throughout his house, each with a little green or yellow dot next to them. If I clicked on edit it allowed me to do absolutely nothing.

This was nothing at all like the last time I tried to fix someone's apple router so after a quick google search (that I was able to do by turning my hacked android phone into a wireless hotspot) I installed the earlier version of the time machine software and then I could go in and turn on NAT and other things.

What do you know? It worked! I don't even understand what the point is of the other software besides being able to look at a pretty picture of your network.


Yeah. They made it look more IOS-like. I would rather have them make the IOS version fully functional. Why build all those capabilities into the Airports and then hide the ability to access them?
 
2013-01-07 10:23:01 AM

Linux_Yes: Linux and Open Source is the Future. get used to it.


It's been the future for a long time, now. Like flying cars. That is what I've had plenty of time to get used to.

steamingpile: You're insane, apple people always have to say


...and there goes your credibility.

steamingpile: I have had


See. You are not an accurate measurement of what many others have experienced.
 
2013-01-07 10:25:03 AM

likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?


And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.
 
2013-01-07 10:25:20 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Also:

But the truth is you only think you're happy with Android because you've never used a legitimate smartphone like the iPhone and you don't know what the experience is supposed to be, and if I'm going to be of any value to you then it's going to be through telling you the truth about tech whether it's what you want to hear in the moment or not. The odds are you'll thank me in the end, after you've ultimately figured out what I've already spent years learning the hard way, and it's okay if you're mad at me in the mean time.

I ditched iphone and the entire Apple suite for Android, and I couldn't be happier.

But he laid out at the beginning of the article that he isn't an Apple propagandist, so I guess this is legit.


Yeah, me, too. I'm much happier with my Galaxy phone and Kindle Fire than I was with the iPhone I had before it. I don't begrudge people their preference, though, and am not about to assume that what works best for me is best for everyone.
 
2013-01-07 10:30:51 AM

thornhill: likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?

And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.


Lots of Android users love their widgets and their Swype.
 
2013-01-07 10:33:35 AM

thornhill: likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?

And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.


Isn't that kind of a cop out, though? The average Android user probably doesn't care about it either, and they can use their phones in the default stock way and be just fine. But should they ever want something a little more advanced, they have the option of more advanced features - an option that is absent in iOS.
 
2013-01-07 10:37:46 AM
I don't use smartphones or pads, so I can only comment on desktop operating systems. I don't see it as a "better/worse" paradigm. To me, it's a continuum. At one end, you have Mac OS - a walled garden where the things you are allowed to do are pretty much guaranteed to work - and it comes on pretty, elegantly engineered hardware. In the middle is Windows, which runs most apps, and allows you considerable freedom - with the caveat that you will break things if you don't know what you are doing - it does require some modest degree of expertise to use optimally. At the far end is Linux, which will let you do any Goddamn thing a PC is physically capable of - IF you can figure out how - and it also benefits from "security through obscurity", on the desktop, anyway. I like them all, find them all quite useful for different things, and use them all.
I use a Macbook pro for my limited mobile computing. It's light, well-engineered, and does the few, limited things I do on the road just fine.
For media, gaming, and regular home usage it's Windows.
For online banking, shopping, and browsing *ahem* "questionable" places, it's Linux - also if I want to do some weird-ass thing I can't do in windows, or don't want to pay for an app for.
I like 'em all, and use 'em all.
Suck it, haters. :D
 
2013-01-07 10:40:34 AM

GameSprocket: Lol. None of those would be a problem for the vast majority of the target audience.


thornhill: And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.


App sandboxing is kind of huge. As I said above, the answer to almost everything in iOS-land is "You can't do that unless you have Dropbox." On my Android devices, I can save an email attachment and open it in something else. Several something elses, even. There's also a pervasive and consistent "Share to" feature that means I don't need a bunch of weird external services just to work with the data already stored on my devices. iOS apps that DO have the ability to somehow share data only have it to the extent that it's been coded by the original developer. "Normal people" might not do that stuff very often, but they do need to do it every once in a while and it tends to be monstrously complex on the iOS side of things.
 
2013-01-07 10:43:49 AM

likefunbutnot: GameSprocket: Lol. None of those would be a problem for the vast majority of the target audience.

thornhill: And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

App sandboxing is kind of huge. As I said above, the answer to almost everything in iOS-land is "You can't do that unless you have Dropbox." On my Android devices, I can save an email attachment and open it in something else. Several something elses, even. There's also a pervasive and consistent "Share to" feature that means I don't need a bunch of weird external services just to work with the data already stored on my devices. iOS apps that DO have the ability to somehow share data only have it to the extent that it's been coded by the original developer. "Normal people" might not do that stuff very often, but they do need to do it every once in a while and it tends to be monstrously complex on the iOS side of things.


Don't forget the ability to define default program to open a particular file format or bit of data. I know a lot of Apple users who would be very happy if an address in safari leads to Google Maps instead of Apple Maps, which the OS forces on you by default.
 
2013-01-07 10:45:14 AM
This article is a massive troll I will not read, but the headline is partly right. Lots of companies lose their way by emulating Apple. Apple exists in a very high-margin space they created almost 30 years ago via sheer force of will and insane overtime hours, along with some luck and one crazy dude who got fired and came back.

Now every management doofus has set their sights on Apple, but Apple's brand is subsidized by 24% margins. You can't sell Windows computers that way because Windows computers carry like 3% margin. You can't sell Android phones that way because Android phones compete on price, and are all in a race to the bottom. Most importantly, you can't sell cheese dip, SAP integration, car insurance or children's footwear that way, either.

I know it's easy to just try to rip off Apple, but it works for Apple, it doesn't work for you. It doesn't work for you because you don't have the top design, process, software, management and writing talent in the world lined up outside your door. It doesn't work because you will just be late to the game and look silly. It doesn't work because while you're trying to be more Apple-y, you're competing against a company that's not even in your market sector, and you're guaranteed to lose even if they were.

Management looks at Apple and sees dollar signs. I see a colossal amount of work and talent in order to make it look easy. Let Apple have its sector and fight over the 100s of billions of dollars left in the personal computing market!
 
2013-01-07 10:50:15 AM
FTFA:...companies out there like Apple who were able to figure out what we wanted before we wanted it?
Love this train of thought. I don't buy everything they tell me too because I'm a shill, it's because they KNOW what I want.
 
2013-01-07 10:55:13 AM

RexTalionis: thornhill: likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?

And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.

Isn't that kind of a cop out, though? The average Android user probably doesn't care about it either, and they can use their phones in the default stock way and be just fine. But should they ever want something a little more advanced, they have the option of more advanced features - an option that is absent in iOS.


I think the average android user is far more motivated by price and and greater product selection. If they get all of those features, great, but it was not what made them go with an android device.
 
2013-01-07 10:59:50 AM

thornhill: RexTalionis: thornhill: likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?

And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.

Isn't that kind of a cop out, though? The average Android user probably doesn't care about it either, and they can use their phones in the default stock way and be just fine. But should they ever want something a little more advanced, they have the option of more advanced features - an option that is absent in iOS.

I think the average android user is far more motivated by price and and greater product selection. If they get all of those features, great, but it was not what made them go with an android device.


I don't think Androids are all that much cheaper than Apple devices. The newest iPhones are $199 (for base iPhone 5), $99 (for base iPhone 4S) and $0.99 (for iPhone 4). That's pretty comparable to the Android pricing (a Galaxy S3 is $199 subsidized for the base model), for instance, and there are myriad mid-range Android phones clocking in at $99 dollars or less.

If anything, Android phones are more expensive the iPhones - there are premium Android phones which run you $299 for the phone after subsidization.
 
2013-01-07 11:02:46 AM

s2s2s2: Linux_Yes: Linux and Open Source is the Future. get used to it.

It's been the future for a long time, now. Like flying cars. That is what I've had plenty of time to get used to.

steamingpile: You're insane, apple people always have to say

...and there goes your credibility.

steamingpile: I have had

See. You are not an accurate measurement of what many others have experienced.


You're trolling, good job.

To even remotely think android people act more like their devices are the best thing ever more than apple folk is not reality. Android users have no issues with any OS yet if you dare mention to an apple user another OS/maker does anything better then you are just a stupid apple hater. I loved my iphone when I first used it but after time there things I wanted to do it would not let me do so I just went to android and haven't regretted it.
 
2013-01-07 11:03:25 AM

likefunbutnot: GameSprocket: Lol. None of those would be a problem for the vast majority of the target audience.

thornhill: And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

App sandboxing is kind of huge. As I said above, the answer to almost everything in iOS-land is "You can't do that unless you have Dropbox." On my Android devices, I can save an email attachment and open it in something else. Several something elses, even. There's also a pervasive and consistent "Share to" feature that means I don't need a bunch of weird external services just to work with the data already stored on my devices. iOS apps that DO have the ability to somehow share data only have it to the extent that it's been coded by the original developer. "Normal people" might not do that stuff very often, but they do need to do it every once in a while and it tends to be monstrously complex on the iOS side of things.


Again, a level of minutia that the average user doesn't care about. You can view Word and PDF attachments on an iPhone -- that's good enough for most people (especially those who don't want to think about how to open an attachment).

That's one of the things Apple does really well -- they understand who the average computer user is and the experience they want.

And that's what Apple haters despise about Apple and their product users -- these people simply don't cae about the same level of functionality as you.
 
2013-01-07 11:13:50 AM

thornhill: RexTalionis: thornhill: likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?

And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.

Isn't that kind of a cop out, though? The average Android user probably doesn't care about it either, and they can use their phones in the default stock way and be just fine. But should they ever want something a little more advanced, they have the option of more advanced features - an option that is absent in iOS.

I think the average android user is far more motivated by price and and greater product selection. If they get all of those features, great, but it was not what made them go with an android device.


Exactly. I think Android is a much better OS than iOS, but I'm a gadget geek and a tinkerer, I think that the motivations of the "average user" are wildly different from the things that are tossed around in tech geek forums.
 
2013-01-07 11:16:55 AM

RexTalionis: thornhill: RexTalionis: thornhill: likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?

And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.

Isn't that kind of a cop out, though? The average Android user probably doesn't care about it either, and they can use their phones in the default stock way and be just fine. But should they ever want something a little more advanced, they have the option of more advanced features - an option that is absent in iOS.

I think the average android user is far more motivated by price and and greater product selection. If they get all of those features, great, but it was not what made them go with an android device.

I don't think Androids are all that much cheaper than Apple devices. The newest iPhones are $199 (for base iPhone 5), $99 (for base iPhone 4S) and $0.99 (for iPhone 4). That's pretty comparable to the Android pricing (a Galaxy S3 is $199 subsidized for the base model), for instance, and there are myriad mid-range Android phones clocking in at $99 dollars or less.

If anything, Android phones are more expensive the iPhones - there are premium Android phones which run you $299 for the phone after subsidization.


That is because apple has to allow that now, not long ago the iPhones were $299 and I think $399 for the larger capacity since you couldn't upgrade storage yourself. My sister loaded almost all her movies on small storage cards to take when camping instead of all the discs, apple can't do that, oh but its better because you can pull it off their servers!!! That does zero good when you have no signal.
 
2013-01-07 11:19:12 AM

narkor: Electronic brand association has replaced for many the touchstone of identity that was once provided by nationality, race, or religion.

It's a whacky prediction, but it isn't impossible that in the future there will be hate crimes perpetrated not on the basis of sexuality, race, or religion - but instead on loyalty to a particular brand.


We're already there. Just ask sports fans. Wearing a hat of a team from a different city then you're currently in is enough to get you harassed and attacked.
 
2013-01-07 11:26:47 AM
I agree with his contention that the Apple Maps fiasco was mostly blown out of proportions and that Google Maps has also led me astray before. I agree that fragmentation is a major problem for Android, and have had it happen a few times on my Nexus 7 that an app wasn't available in my version of the OS (ironically, my version was too new) and that I've never had that happen with iOS on my phone. I also agree that one major reason I never wanted to try Android was that as much as I thought the OS itself could be great, I didn't want to deal with it being shoehorned into third party hardware and overlaid with a ton of bloat.

However, though I agree on many points, this article is retarded and the author is far too willing to speak in sweeping generalities.

Futhermore, though it hasn't been a perfect experience and I have had a higher incidence rate of apps freezing or crashing on my Android tablet than I ever do on my iPhone, I have enjoyed my Android experience thus far and might consider my next phone being a Nexus device. Not for sure, because there are still some things I prefer on my iPhone (iPod integration and iMessenger being big ones there), but since it will be a few years anyways those might be moot points by then (or I might find existing solutions).

I am and always have been generally inclined to want to get away from the iPhone when a more suitable (for me) product hits the market, because I hate Mac computers with a great passion.
 
2013-01-07 11:27:12 AM

RexTalionis: thornhill: RexTalionis: thornhill: likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?

And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.

Isn't that kind of a cop out, though? The average Android user probably doesn't care about it either, and they can use their phones in the default stock way and be just fine. But should they ever want something a little more advanced, they have the option of more advanced features - an option that is absent in iOS.

I think the average android user is far more motivated by price and and greater product selection. If they get all of those features, great, but it was not what made them go with an android device.

I don't think Androids are all that much cheaper than Apple devices. The newest iPhones are $199 (for base iPhone 5), $99 (for base iPhone 4S) and $0.99 (for iPhone 4). That's pretty comparable to the Android pricing (a Galaxy S3 is $199 subsidized for the base model), for instance, and there are myriad mid-range Android phones clocking in at $99 dollars or less.

If anything, Android phones are more expensive the iPhones - there are premium Android phones which run you $299 for the phone after subsidization.


That's not right.

Just look at Verizon or ATT's websites. There are many more Android options that come at $49 and $0.99 than iPhones. I also imagine the Android phones are better than the iPhone 4 -- what is it, 3 years old at this point?

Further, if you want to get a no contract plan, the Android phones are way cheaper than iPhones. Virgin, for instance, sells the iPhone 4 for $350; they have 4G phones for as cheap as $150, and 3G as low as $40.
 
2013-01-07 11:28:37 AM

thornhill: likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?

And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.


Which is the problem really. Most people do not understand or what to understand how their computer works.
Peopel just want to use it, and not understandanything, and not have to bother with things like making sure there is not software that is better suited for their needs out there.
 
2013-01-07 11:32:40 AM

thornhill:
And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.


So it sounds like they don't need anything better than a $299 laptop for that, isn't a $1500 Macbook a tad excessive?
 
2013-01-07 11:33:53 AM

burndtdan: I agree with his contention that the Apple Maps fiasco was mostly blown out of proportions and that Google Maps has also led me astray before.


The real fiasco with Apple Maps is that Apple completely underestimated how attached people were to Google Maps -- the outrage was really about a feature everyone liked being yanked. Even had Apple Maps worked perfectly, it still would have been something new that people were not used to and they still would have been upset with not having the option of a Google Maps.

One of the things Apple does well is just forcing people to use something new rather than keeping around legacy functionality (a la Microsoft), but in this case they just didn't comprehend how much Google Maps was part of the iPhone user experience.
 
2013-01-07 11:35:23 AM

thornhill: Just look at Verizon or ATT's websites. There are many more Android options that come at $49 and $0.99 than iPhones. I also imagine the Android phones are better than the iPhone 4 -- what is it, 3 years old at this point?


Well, obviously. There are only 3 generations of the iPhone on sale at any given moment. Of COURSE there will be more Android options on the market than iPhones.

thornhill: Further, if you want to get a no contract plan, the Android phones are way cheaper than iPhones. Virgin, for instance, sells the iPhone 4 for $350; they have 4G phones for as cheap as $150, and 3G as low as $40.


The vast majority of phones in us in the US are done with a contract with a carrier - we're talking 75% of the market, here. Okay, so the no-contract phones may be cheaper, but for most people, they see the subsidized contract price.
 
2013-01-07 11:35:26 AM

s2s2s2: likefunbutnot: The standard line is more like "Android applications are not as mature as the iOS versions." The people who say things like that invariably cannot explain what it means.

All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability. Many people don't care. Works is works, no matter if it is "stuck in 2007".

"But I can change my font!"

:I


Simplification, but it it is to be expected from an Apple user.
 
2013-01-07 11:36:03 AM
iProducts don't support NFC so fark them.
 
2013-01-07 11:36:25 AM

thornhill: likefunbutnot: GameSprocket: Lol. None of those would be a problem for the vast majority of the target audience.

thornhill: And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

App sandboxing is kind of huge. As I said above, the answer to almost everything in iOS-land is "You can't do that unless you have Dropbox." On my Android devices, I can save an email attachment and open it in something else. Several something elses, even. There's also a pervasive and consistent "Share to" feature that means I don't need a bunch of weird external services just to work with the data already stored on my devices. iOS apps that DO have the ability to somehow share data only have it to the extent that it's been coded by the original developer. "Normal people" might not do that stuff very often, but they do need to do it every once in a while and it tends to be monstrously complex on the iOS side of things.

Again, a level of minutia that the average user doesn't care about. You can view Word and PDF attachments on an iPhone -- that's good enough for most people (especially those who don't want to think about how to open an attachment).

That's one of the things Apple does really well -- they understand who the average computer user is and the experience they want.

And that's what Apple haters despise about Apple and their product users -- these people simply don't cae about the same level of functionality as you.


Oh no I love that apple makes computers simple for stupid people, makes our job easier as network people for those who have no common sense.

I just feel people are now realizing what limitations apple has with more and more doing tweaks to their devices with simple apps or work arounds that apple just won't/can't do at all.
 
2013-01-07 11:37:02 AM

RexTalionis: HotWingConspiracy: Also:

But the truth is you only think you're happy with Android because you've never used a legitimate smartphone like the iPhone and you don't know what the experience is supposed to be, and if I'm going to be of any value to you then it's going to be through telling you the truth about tech whether it's what you want to hear in the moment or not. The odds are you'll thank me in the end, after you've ultimately figured out what I've already spent years learning the hard way, and it's okay if you're mad at me in the mean time.

I ditched iphone and the entire Apple suite for Android, and I couldn't be happier.

But he laid out at the beginning of the article that he isn't an Apple propagandist, so I guess this is legit.

I like how he makes the headline claim that the only products worth recommending in 2013 are Apple's... Which is interesting, seeing as how Apple hasn't announced any products for 2013.


Came for the 2013 thing.

He isn't a troll, this is how actual Apple users are. It is like Scientology but more expensive.

Which Farker is the author of that terrible blog by the way?
 
2013-01-07 11:40:45 AM

thornhill: likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?

And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.


Oh we completely get it, and have no problem about it for the most part, but for Apple people to turn around and tell us that either we don't need the functionality that an android provides or that we can do, through a long series of steps, what the android can do natively is annoying at best.
 
2013-01-07 11:41:59 AM

Malcolm_Sex: FTFA:...companies out there like Apple who were able to figure out what we wanted before we wanted it?
Love this train of thought. I don't buy everything they tell me too because I'm a shill, it's because they KNOW what I want.


I got a chuckle out of this as well. The thing is it is not that Apple is figuring out what people want in first, they just have a rabid fan base that lets them safetly try out unteasted products to see if the demand is string enough. And some times they just advertise the hell out of things so no one notices the stuff that was there first, there were smart phones before the iPhone, but no one noticed them, apple marketed the iPhone to make smart phones mainstream. same thing with MP3 players, they marketed the hell out of the ipod, but were not the first, or the best on the market, just the most noticable.
 
2013-01-07 11:44:54 AM

browntimmy: thornhill:
And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.

So it sounds like they don't need anything better than a $299 laptop for that, isn't a $1500 Macbook a tad excessive?


If you haven't noticed, Apple makes practically no money from their computers.

That's one of the undeniable geniuses of Steve Jobs. He realized that they were never going to breakthrough in the PC market, so they stopped trying and sought dominance in other markets that were still nascent, most notably portable digital music players. The result is tons of people with Windows PCs who also iPhones, iPods and iPads.
 
2013-01-07 11:48:05 AM

thornhill: burndtdan: I agree with his contention that the Apple Maps fiasco was mostly blown out of proportions and that Google Maps has also led me astray before.

The real fiasco with Apple Maps is that Apple completely underestimated how attached people were to Google Maps -- the outrage was really about a feature everyone liked being yanked. Even had Apple Maps worked perfectly, it still would have been something new that people were not used to and they still would have been upset with not having the option of a Google Maps.

One of the things Apple does well is just forcing people to use something new rather than keeping around legacy functionality (a la Microsoft), but in this case they just didn't comprehend how much Google Maps was part of the iPhone user experience.


Definitely a part of it, but I will say that Apple maps has a LOT less granularity of information in some cases.

I live near Harvard. In Google maps, I can find a specific building on campus. In Apple maps, Harvard campus is a complete black box... it's just a giant uniform Harvard Yard with nothing inside it, as if it were a giant building.

I've also noticed that Google maps is a little more permissive with what it considers alternative routes, which was useful the other day when we were driving to New Hampshire and wanted to avoid driving through a specific town due to traffic, and Apple only offered alternatives that converged on that town while Google offered some that were, by sight, more circuitous but not actually that much different regarding travel time.

And I guess the Google maps navigation voice is a little more pleasant than Siri's voice, but that's nitpicky to the point of absurdity.

All that said, however, 99% of the time I have no problem with Apple maps. I definitely haven't had any more cases of it leading me astray than I used to with the Google maps API behind it (and I definitely had that happen to me quite a few times back then).
 
2013-01-07 11:52:04 AM

steamingpile: To even remotely think android people act more like their devices are the best thing ever more than apple folk is not reality. Android users have no issues with any OS


I bow to your trolling superiority.
 
2013-01-07 11:52:12 AM

GameSprocket: Every company has flaws.

Apple ("You don't need that."):
Hiding complexity to the point where it actually hinders capability (see the new Airport utility).
Developing ecosystems on IOS that don't integrate with OSX (podcasts, ibooks);

Google ("Oooo, shiny!"):
Releasing interesting technology without really refining the product.
Lack of focus on continuing to develop products after the initial release.

Microsoft ("Anyone know what our other teams are doing? No?"):
Products do not play well together.
Killing products with little or no warning (Silverlight, Zune, Kin)

Pick your poison.


Google doesn't release products. Easy way to spot people who have no idea what they are talking about.
 
2013-01-07 11:53:48 AM

s2s2s2: RexTalionis: s2s2s2: Works is works

[weknowmemes.com image 650x500]

That's from 2007?


That's from 2013
 
2013-01-07 11:55:12 AM

burndtdan: Definitely a part of it, but I will say that Apple maps has a LOT less granularity of information in some cases.

I live near Harvard. In Google maps, I can find a specific building on campus. In Apple maps, Harvard campus is a complete black box... it's just a giant uniform Harvard Yard with nothing inside it, as if it were a giant building.

I've also noticed that Google maps is a little more permissive with what it considers alternative routes, which was useful the other day when we were driving to New Hampshire and wanted to avoid driving through a specific town due to traffic, and Apple only offered alternatives that converged on that town while Google offered some that were, by sight, more circuitous but not actually that much different regarding travel time.

And I guess the Google maps navigation voice is a little more pleasant than Siri's voice, but that's nitpicky to the point of absurdity.

All that said, however, 99% of the time I have no problem with Apple maps. I definitely haven't had any more cases of it leading me astray than I used to with the Google maps API behind it (and I definitely had that happen to me quite a few times back then).


My experience with Apple Maps is that 80% of the time, it's just fine, but when it fails it'll either fail catastrphically (i.e. it leads you to the wrong place) or it'll fail in an extremely annoying fashion. When Apple Maps first launched, I decided to take it on a test run to the post office. It took Apple Maps 35 minutes to go less than 8 miles down the road, often taking me on a bunch of circuitous backwoods detours for no apparent reason.
 
2013-01-07 11:56:46 AM
Plus, I've noticed that Apple Maps have a lot of misplaced place markers inside. The local Morton's was misplaced by nearly half a mile on my map.
 
2013-01-07 11:57:44 AM

Bullseyed: GameSprocket: Every company has flaws.

Apple ("You don't need that."):
Hiding complexity to the point where it actually hinders capability (see the new Airport utility).
Developing ecosystems on IOS that don't integrate with OSX (podcasts, ibooks);

Google ("Oooo, shiny!"):
Releasing interesting technology without really refining the product.
Lack of focus on continuing to develop products after the initial release.

Microsoft ("Anyone know what our other teams are doing? No?"):
Products do not play well together.
Killing products with little or no warning (Silverlight, Zune, Kin)

Pick your poison.

Google doesn't release products. Easy way to spot people who have no idea what they are talking about.


Really? So GMail is an internal system? Android is not a publicly available product? Only a few beta testers are using Google Maps?

Poor little pedant.
 
2013-01-07 11:58:07 AM

RexTalionis: Plus, I've noticed that Apple Maps have a lot of misplaced place markers inside. The local Morton's was misplaced by nearly half a mile on my map.


Actually, I just checked my maps again. It's still misplaced by half a mile in a totally different part of the city. It's been like this since launch day.
 
2013-01-07 11:59:07 AM

thornhill: If you haven't noticed, Apple makes practically no money from their computers.


Not true. Apple makes 20% on notebooks, which is a fortune. That's how they subsidize their OS upgrades for $29.
 
2013-01-07 12:01:54 PM

thornhill: And that's what Apple haters despise about Apple and their product users -- these people simply don't cae about the same level of functionality as you.



So your argument is essentially that you prefer your dual core 1Ghz hand-held generic computing device be deliberately limited to the ten or twelve things they're good at because that's all the manufacturer foresaw rather than serve as, you know, a dual core 1GHz hand-held generic computing device? At that point, why not just call it an expensive, oversized feature phone?
 
2013-01-07 12:05:37 PM

mccallcl: thornhill: If you haven't noticed, Apple makes practically no money from their computers.

Not true. Apple makes 20% on notebooks, which is a fortune. That's how they subsidize their OS upgrades for $29.


Used to be free, dammit!
 
2013-01-07 12:08:38 PM

GameSprocket: Used to be free, dammit!


System 8 retailed at $99 in 1997:

http://news.cnet.com/Mac-OS-8-has-arrived/2100-1001_3-201615.html

Know your roots, son
 
2013-01-07 12:09:06 PM
I would not have believed you could have that much douchieness in one article.
 
2013-01-07 12:10:26 PM

likefunbutnot: thornhill: And that's what Apple haters despise about Apple and their product users -- these people simply don't cae about the same level of functionality as you.


So your argument is essentially that you prefer your dual core 1Ghz hand-held generic computing device be deliberately limited to the ten or twelve things they're good at because that's all the manufacturer foresaw rather than serve as, you know, a dual core 1GHz hand-held generic computing device? At that point, why not just call it an expensive, oversized feature phone?


10 or 12? Did the app store suddenly get a lot smaller?

Care to list some functions that can be performed on an Android phone that cannot be performed on an iPhone (to be fair, someone could attempt the opposite as well)? So I am not accused of moving the goalposts later, I am not talking about some specific technical method (such as widget vs app) but an actual useful function (checking the weather forecast, editing a document, etc).

I believe that both systems are capable of essentially the same functionality. The only difference is in the method.
 
2013-01-07 12:11:53 PM

thornhill: browntimmy: thornhill:
And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.

So it sounds like they don't need anything better than a $299 laptop for that, isn't a $1500 Macbook a tad excessive?

If you haven't noticed, Apple makes practically no money from their computers.

That's one of the undeniable geniuses of Steve Jobs. He realized that they were never going to breakthrough in the PC market, so they stopped trying and sought dominance in other markets that were still nascent, most notably portable digital music players. The result is tons of people with Windows PCs who also iPhones, iPods and iPads.


You're kidding, right? Link
2012 SEC Filing (Scroll to Net Sales)
Total Mac net sales in thousands of dollars
2012: $23,221 +7%
2011: $21,783 +25%
2010: $17,479
They continue to make a ton of money on their computers which have a relatively large profit margin.
 
2013-01-07 12:12:37 PM

RexTalionis: thornhill: likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?

And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.

Isn't that kind of a cop out, though? The average Android user probably doesn't care about it either, and they can use their phones in the default stock way and be just fine. But should they ever want something a little more advanced, they have the option of more advanced features - an option that is absent in iOS.


Most drivers don't need their car to go over 55 MPH. If you have the choice between two identical cars, one with a top speed of 55 MPH that costs more or a cheaper car that can go up to 120 MPH, which do you pick?
 
2013-01-07 12:12:52 PM

Bullseyed: That's from 2013


Are you a detective?
 
2013-01-07 12:20:49 PM

RexTalionis: thornhill: RexTalionis: thornhill: likefunbutnot: s2s2s2: All I ever get from the complaints about iOS is lack of customizability.

No file system access. Application sandboxing. No widget support. Static icons. Lack of customizable input options. Single application vendor with strongly paternalistic tendencies. shiatty development process. Extremely limited interaction with proper personal computers. Development and end user culture that discourages giving away software in favor of nickle-and-dime costs for extremely simple functionality.

Do I need to go on?

And here's what Apple haters don't get: the average computer use doesn't care about any of that crap.

As much as it may disgust you, most people just use their computers for internet, word process, e-mail, doing their taxes, and some photo editing.

Isn't that kind of a cop out, though? The average Android user probably doesn't care about it either, and they can use their phones in the default stock way and be just fine. But should they ever want something a little more advanced, they have the option of more advanced features - an option that is absent in iOS.

I think the average android user is far more motivated by price and and greater product selection. If they get all of those features, great, but it was not what made them go with an android device.

I don't think Androids are all that much cheaper than Apple devices. The newest iPhones are $199 (for base iPhone 5), $99 (for base iPhone 4S) and $0.99 (for iPhone 4). That's pretty comparable to the Android pricing (a Galaxy S3 is $199 subsidized for the base model), for instance, and there are myriad mid-range Android phones clocking in at $99 dollars or less.

If anything, Android phones are more expensive the iPhones - there are premium Android phones which run you $299 for the phone after subsidization.


Walmart did the S3 for 92 cents, tmobile did it for 99 dollars, Radioshack does it for 99 bucks, and Best Buy as well.

I am rocking an S2 Skyrocket with 64 gigs of ram.  Total cost of phone was 0 on a two year contract, 30 dollars for the 64 gig sd card I have in it.  It's 4g, 8 mega pixel cameral, runs quick as shiat, and is getting jelly bean.  Except for processor speed, it does everything the Iphone 5 does, wait has been doing it for almost 2 years.  And still has a larger screen.

/manager at cell phone carrier
 
2013-01-07 12:21:01 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: iProducts don't support NFC so fark them.


That's irrelevant for anyone with Verizon, no?
 
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