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(Yahoo)   Musician: "I'd like to buy an extra ticket for my $10,000 vintage Gibson guitar." Delta: "No; but at no additional cost to you we'll smash it in an elevator"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 65
    More: Fail, baggage handlers  
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29833 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jan 2013 at 2:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-07 02:43:42 AM
7 votes:

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


Let us repeat, since you are obviously suffering from serious brain damage.  Federal law allows musicians to buy an extra seat for a musical instrument.  He attempted to do so, the airline refused.

Let's repeat for the slow (that would be you).  The airline ignored a federal law that is meant to protect valuable instruments, then caused serious damage to the instrument.  The exact thing the law is supposed to prevent.

So who's the idiot, you farking idiot?
2013-01-07 02:31:44 AM
6 votes:

Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.


Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.
2013-01-07 02:14:45 AM
6 votes:
I have a German violin (I won't name the maker here), that I would not trust to anybody. Mostly because I can't afford the insurance policy on it. I checked with Allstate, and they said they wouldn't insure it, then I checked Lloyds of London for shiats and giggles. HOLY CRAP! It would cost more than my car. That fiddle sits next to me everywhere I travel. I don't trust people, and I don't let other people touch it. That fiddle was a gift from a master Luthier. If you try to pull that fiddle out of my hands, I'll sock you in the mouth, while holding on to the case. That fiddle is my baby. I have a crappy Brazilian bow, but that violin is worth a lot of money.
2013-01-07 04:11:21 AM
5 votes:
You know, I'm not going to comment about whether or not this guy should have invested in an indestructable case or not, but I'm going to have to ask:

What's with the idea that we should *expect* that our luggage should risk being destroyed in transit?

Are we saying that letting a bunch of baggage handlers (and the interim mechanical systems) damage our property is a legitimately expected course of action?

Regardless of how we put these items up for travel, isn't the default expectation the one where those personnel charged with handling them are presumed to be accountable for the intact delivery of said items?

Of all of the rhetoric about how this guy should have handled this, why aren't we talking about why it seems to be okay that the normal handling process damages what is being shipped?

Are you really arguing that it's okay for the airline to damage luggage (under any circumstance), and that the onus is always on the traveler to prevent it?
I'm of the opinion that when we pay a provider to ship our items (whether checked or not), it's on them to be held accountable for the delivery of those items.

Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly, but it seems to me that some among the posters here are trying to defend the idea that it's okay for the airline to mishandle our luggage.
2013-01-07 02:54:16 AM
4 votes:
I toured for many years, and I always stressed to NOT bring anything with you that you can't afford to have damaged or stolen.
Yes, your '57 Les Paul is very nice, but if we're flying, leave it home and buy a beater that does the job.
I've picked up my share of empty guitar cases from from luggage carousels, and that sinking feeling when you pick up that case, is not good.

I've started building, buying and selling the occasional expensive instrument, and If I sell something over $1200, I charge an extra $150 to cover the cost of a used flight case to ship it in.
Airlines aren't the only bunglers out there.

This, is how that guitar should have been traveling.
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

Fact is, even just the original Gibson CASE that was destroyed, cost more than any of the proper cases pictured above.
2013-01-07 02:38:22 AM
4 votes:

Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.


If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off like you have absolutely zero reading comprehension, why dont you take the rest of the evening to reflect and come back and try again fresh tomorrow.
2013-01-07 02:35:04 AM
4 votes:

Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


Pretty sure he did.

"The case carrying Schneider's semihollow-body guitar was lodged between the mobile service elevator and a rail on the loading dock, shaking the elevator door. The case even bent a steel beam. "

And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied. This is entirely the airlines fault.
2013-01-07 01:41:39 AM
4 votes:
Bought a Harmonium when I was in India. Wrapped it with bubble wrap 40 centimetres deep on all sides. Put it in heavy duty cardboard 3 centimetres thick. Wrapped it another 15 centimetres deep in bubble wrap.

Airline still managed to smash it. I think when airlines see "musician" as occupation on your visa they smash the shiat out of your stuff just to make sure.
2013-01-07 12:25:29 AM
4 votes:
Every time I see someone traveling by air with an instrument, I'm terrified for them.  Airline employees, in my experiences, are marginally competent at best.  I can't imagine having to entrust anything of real value to the baggage handlers of any airline.
2013-01-07 12:17:49 AM
4 votes:
Why... why did I know before I clicked the link that it would be a 335? I always dreamed of owning one

/AND THOSE FREAKING NEANDERTHALS DESTROYED IT
//hanging is too good for them
2013-01-07 03:02:44 AM
3 votes:

Bob Falfa: [derp]


Look, I know that it's normal Fark behaviour to not read TFA before spouting off, but really, you're just making a fool of yourself.
2013-01-07 02:56:04 AM
3 votes:

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.
2013-01-07 02:53:34 AM
3 votes:

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


Yes, you are the idiot. Also, he wanted to (and DID) obey the rules, and Delta f*cked up, in a rather spectacular fashion.

So the only question is, are you a Delta employee, a baggage handler, or just a run of the mill idiot?
2013-01-07 02:51:50 AM
3 votes:
dumb guy puts $10,000 guitar in $100 case
2013-01-07 02:42:55 AM
3 votes:

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


Again dude, reading comprehension.

"Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied."
2013-01-07 02:34:44 AM
3 votes:

Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...
2013-01-07 02:30:18 AM
3 votes:

Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


I've seen airlines turn those nearly indestructible cases into Swiss cheese before. A good friend of mine's cello was mangled and destroyed that way. As far as I can tell airlines go out of their way to smash instruments. I managed to get lucky the one time I flew with my viola and there was a policy at the time that they could store it in a closet as carry on and not checked.

My friend was not so lucky and lost a horn on that same flight.

/after looking at the case for that horn they had to have purposefully gone out of their way to smash it
//flattened and chunks taken out
2013-01-07 03:59:48 AM
2 votes:

OptimusHime: Bob Falfa: alienated: Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.

you really are not bright, i dont care what score you got on some intelligence test


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.

At no point does it state that he offered to buy a seat. He merely points out that he is allowed to buy a seat.

See, on that I agree. We don't know what the seat availability was or whether or not he specifically offered to buy a seat. We just know that he showed the rules and that, by testimonial, they said "No." at the end of that conversation. So whether he actually offered to pay money for a seat right then and there, or whether he wasn't even offered the chance, is unknown.

Where everyone here treats those as known elements, one way or the other, in order to cast judgement on the situation... that's where I have more of a problem. But I'm not the opinion police...


By "DENIED", it is likely that's because THE FLIGHT WAS FULL.

Why else would Delta NOT sell him an empty seat? "Hey Delta, I need a seat for my guitar, and money is no object". Delta: "We have a seat, but won't take your money, we'd rather leave it empty"
Said no airline, ever.
So why didn't he buy a second seat when he booked, if this was the plan?

Well, perhaps that rule about allowing it as a carry-on CAUSED the problem. This is a very large carry-on, you must admit. He's allowed to do so, but if there's no space for everyone's carry-ons, people will be forced to check bags. This is surely what happened, he then asked to buy a seat. but the reason they ran out of overhead storage is because the flight was filled and there were no seats to purchase.
2013-01-07 03:41:27 AM
2 votes:
ITT: Mr. Alfalfa thinks professional musicians don't know how to travel with their musical instruments.
2013-01-07 03:29:54 AM
2 votes:
Wow, this thread went to sh*t in a hurry. Buncha assholes in here.

Lighten up, people.
2013-01-07 03:25:51 AM
2 votes:

Bob Falfa: alienated: Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.

you really are not bright, i dont care what score you got on some intelligence test


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.

At no point does it state that he offered to buy a seat. He merely points out that he is allowed to buy a seat.


See, on that I agree. We don't know what the seat availability was or whether or not he specifically offered to buy a seat. We just know that he showed the rules and that, by testimonial, they said "No." at the end of that conversation. So whether he actually offered to pay money for a seat right then and there, or whether he wasn't even offered the chance, is unknown.

Where everyone here treats those as known elements, one way or the other, in order to cast judgement on the situation... that's where I have more of a problem. But I'm not the opinion police...
2013-01-07 03:16:52 AM
2 votes:
I'm curious to know if anybody thinks there is any guitar case in existence that would withstand this particular punishment. I have looked at a lot of "indestructible" travel cases over the years and I don't think any of them would cut it in this instance.
img203.imageshack.us
What you are looking at is a hydraulic cargo elevator. Even the strongest travel case would be crushed by this thing.
According to the article The case even bent a steel beam.
2013-01-07 02:53:00 AM
2 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: Flight case dude... look into them.

Cyno01: And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied.

No he didn't. Apparently you and subby both failed to RTFA...

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland."


Here is the knock out blow:  Delta's own farking "allowable carry on items" page.  Here it is

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/baggage/be for e-your-trip/special-items.html

Click on the Musical Instruments tab and then look at what Instruments Can I Carry On?

Here is the text:

What Instruments Can I Carry On?

Guitars and other smaller musical instruments, such as violins, will be accepted as your free carry-on baggage item on Delta and Delta Connection® carriers flights¹. These items must easily fit in the overhead bin or other approved storage location in the cabin, based on available space at the time of boarding. Musical instruments may be gate claimed at the discretion of the passenger and as a result of limited overhead space.

/Google is your friend
2013-01-07 02:43:20 AM
2 votes:

Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.


Granted, I've been drinking so I may not get the point, but I think the complaint's main point is that he had legitimate precedent to buy the instrument a seat, was refused, and then suffered what one could logically consider the consequences of not being prepared for such a refusal.

Granted, I'm a bit touchy about even my worthless possessions, and will try to prepare for every conceivable instance ahead of time, but as far as dealing with the airline and its employees, it's a legitimate complaint that he should have been allowed, by their own rules, to buy a ticket for it or stow it in an available space.

But I do recognize your point that if it was that valuable it should be protected against human incompetence better.
2013-01-07 02:36:58 AM
2 votes:
Why in the fark did he use a soft case for a valuable instrument for air travel?

He could have avoid all this by having a simple hard case to transport the thing.
Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.
2013-01-07 02:26:00 AM
2 votes:

me texan: Ok, the way I read the story was that he just tried to get them to let him carry the guitar on, and cited the congressional act to help his case - but didn't go so far as to buy a ticket.  If that's the case, he's an idiot for leaving a $10K instrument in the hands of the baggage monkeys.  It's still their fault it was mangled in the elevator, but he should have known better than to leave itin their care.


Then you missed the point where he asked to buy a ticket, and was denied. From the article:

While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland.

"I've always carried it on," Schneider, who also tours as the lead singer of the hockey-themed rock group the Zambonis, told Yahoo News. "Never been a problem before."

Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.

But he was denied.


He tried, Delta humped a bunk, and the result was squished stringamajig.
2013-01-07 02:25:10 AM
2 votes:
He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"
2013-01-07 02:20:22 AM
2 votes:
Ok, the way I read the story was that he just tried to get them to let him carry the guitar on, and cited the congressional act to help his case - but didn't go so far as to buy a ticket.  If that's the case, he's an idiot for leaving a $10K instrument in the hands of the baggage monkeys.  It's still their fault it was mangled in the elevator, but he should have known better than to leave itin their care.
2013-01-07 01:43:48 AM
2 votes:
I used to have the same guitar, 'cept it was a '61.  My heart weeps.
2013-01-07 02:55:51 PM
1 votes:

Oldiron_79: I'm surprised that I seem to be in before a Fender fanboi saying "nothing of value was lost"


far, far too many comments to read on a nice january afternoon (well, nice for january anyway) and I should be outside walking.

Came to say "If it had been a telecaster, it would not even be out of tune."

It's sad to lose a '65 ES 335 but thank goodness it wasn't a dot neck '59 with original PAFs. But, yeah, cali girl cases are not for protecting the guitar against airline apes.

/not expecting people who don't speak guitar to understand my post, it's ok.
2013-01-07 02:38:26 PM
1 votes:
"It was this crazy sound," Schneider said. "Metal on metal."
www.moviezit.com
2013-01-07 01:55:01 PM
1 votes:
Vintage Gibson owner so I am definitely not getting a kick etc. Now I know its a dead thread but a lot of people in here are full of crap, just a brief recap of the highlights:

A. 10 grand for a guitar really isn't very much, I live in Podunk TX and just a couple of months ago met a guy in a local shop with a Martin from the 20's worth literally tens of thousands. Guitars of this value are called "heirloom quality" as many are literally handed down father to son for generations like they were f'ing Samurai swords or something. Granted not all are gained this way but just because he owns a 10k guitar does not mean he's rich. Not to mention a perusal of Gibson's current line will give you several models newly produced without the vintage premium added that have an MSRP of over $10,000

B. Chances are he did try to buy a seat as others have said why mention the ability to buy a seat without the intention of buying a seat? Your refutations of "the article never explicitly states that he tried to secure a seat" are lazy and childish.

C. The figure of $1980 is the cost of having the guitar repaired, the guy isn't even asking for the value of the guitar which lets be realistic would be the minimum he would be awarded in any court of law. So he's obviously not just trying to get paid. His instrument is the tool of his trade he could also get cash for lost wages as a result of this probably it would be like if someone demonstrably at fault had destroyed a tow truck belonging to a small wrecking business. Any lawyer worth the name dirtbag will get him at least that.

D. Lastly to the genius who suggested he buy a Pelican case I'll make you a deal I'll let you drive over my SG in a Pelican case with a hummer right after you let me drive over yours.

Sorry everyone but I take guitars very, very seriously. That being said if they hadn't allowed me to buy a seat for my guitar I would have tried to book with another airline.
2013-01-07 01:27:09 PM
1 votes:
Years ago, when my father passed away (in the late 80's), he left me his 12-string acoustic guitar. Nothing valuable, but still a nice guitar.

I tried to bring it on as carry-on baggage, and they told me I couldn't. They tried to fit it in the front compartment (a small closet for Jackets), it wouldn't fit. They insisted I check it. I told them how I'd gotten it, and that I was afraid it would get harmed, they assured me it would be fine.

When it came down the luggage area, it had three clear footprints on it, and the case was cracked. Inside was the smashed remains of my dad's guitar. It had been curbstomped multiple times.

Destroyed completely. Complaints to management went unanswered for weeks. Eventually I was offerred fifty dollars for the damage.

Don't trust airlines with anything valuable.
2013-01-07 11:29:06 AM
1 votes:
As some have already pointed out, the Delta link states you can buy a full-fare ticket for your instrument.
And I know that's true.

But... it used to be that you could get a tkt for your cello (for ex) for a full-fare *childs* ticket price.
Now airlines are strapped for cash... are they making musicians pay a full-fare *adult* ticket for their instrument?

/used to be 10% of the price of a full-fare ticket
//haven't flown with my instrument in years
2013-01-07 10:46:53 AM
1 votes:

vudukungfu: Use a bullet proof case.
Insure the shait out of it and the contents.
Then, if anything happens, you have the backing of everyone when you get paid for someone's stupidity. Because it won't be yours.

Fricken God's way of saying you're too stupid to have a nice guitar, bucko.


I also was given a suggestion for traveling with tools that seems legit, though I haven't tried it. Travel with a gun. The hard case must be locked, and you must be the only one with the key. TSA will search the case in front of you, and you get to lock it then no one can open that bag until you pick it up. Get a cheap single shot, or even a broken down flintlock if you don't like guns for your luggage.

At least at that point the TSA apes can't pocket anything from your luggage, they need to make off with the whole case.
2013-01-07 06:56:56 AM
1 votes:
Just read through lots of the crap flying back and forth, and from the wording of the article, it is implied he brought up the law about buying an extra seat, ASKED TO BUY A TICKET FOR HIS GUITAR and was denied. If he didn't ask to buy another seat, "he was denied" makes no sense in that context. But that is not for sure. He might not have asked, they might not had any seats available, or he might have asked to buy another seat and was denied even though one was available. Basically we don't know what really happened so arguing is pointless, and everyone is sounding like a jackass.

As for why didn't he just buy a 2nd ticket beforehand? Obviously the best choice, but its not the best business decision to waste $500 every trip if you can almost always just put it in an overhead bin. Maybe he was thinking that because he has been allowed to put it in empty overhead bins without any issues in the past, it would just be a waste of money since if there was a problem he could just buy a seat. Obviously a fully booked flight he had to be on to not miss the gig could be a problem, but the original itinerary might have had time to seek other flights if that was the case.

If the flight wasn't full AND they refused to sell him another ticket, then fark delta. If he didn't ask to buy another seat after bringing up the law he's retarded, or if they denied him because the overhead bins were full AND there were no empty seats to sell him it's on him for not waiting for another flight, but he might not have really had a choice at that point since the gig might have been missed totally if he didn't get on that flight since their travel had gotten so messed up already by that point. Airline should still pay for damages though.

Damn this thread was painful to read, I hate you all. :)
2013-01-07 05:54:31 AM
1 votes:

Naked Singularity: Pray 4 Mojo: Why are you hassling us about this?

Why?

Why are you trying to excuse some airline for damaging checked luggage (or similar)?

Why should any airline be exempt from the implied contract to keep intact the item that was checked?

You seem to believe that it should be normal to expect that it's okay for an airline to damage checked baggage, and that we should, for whatever reason, still be held accountable for what they've done.

This isn't about what could happen in some kind of unusual circumstance.

You seem to be trying to argue that it's entirely okay for an airline to damage any checked item, simply because the passenger wasn't willing to sent it FedEx.


Agreed.
If you're on the road, do you really want your $10,000 guitar shipped to some motel that you've never been to, and expect that it's going to be there every night, safe and sound?

What if you're doing a few months of one-nighters?
FedEx might be good, but they aren't THAT good.
Besides, who the hell in that situation, has the time to pack, (in my own experience) 3, or 4 guitars every day, and send them out?
2013-01-07 05:40:53 AM
1 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: Why are you hassling us about this?


Why?

Why are you trying to excuse some airline for damaging checked luggage (or similar)?

Why should any airline be exempt from the implied contract to keep intact the item that was checked?

You seem to believe that it should be normal to expect that it's okay for an airline to damage checked baggage, and that we should, for whatever reason, still be held accountable for what they've done.

This isn't about what could happen in some kind of unusual circumstance.

You seem to be trying to argue that it's entirely okay for an airline to damage any checked item, simply because the passenger wasn't willing to sent it FedEx.
2013-01-07 05:33:04 AM
1 votes:

Serious Black: I'm not even sure that getting an ATA case is a perfect solution


It's not. Not flying is the perfect solution.

Here's a good test before ya'll check something.

Get whatever it is you want to check... go to the top of a 6' ladder... and drop your check item on the ground.

If you don't want to do that... don't check it.
2013-01-07 04:53:06 AM
1 votes:

Bob Falfa: Naked Singularity:
So, you're arguing that buying a plane ticket and checking your luggage doesn't constitute a legitimate expectation of proper handling of that luggage?

Yes, but if you choose to transport you Stradivarius in a cardboard shoebox, don't come crying to me.
Insure it and enjoy it. Otherwise, leave it at home.


I'm not the one shipping in cardboard.

So, you're saying that if I'm paying for my luggage to be transferred from point A to point B, I'm the one responsible if the shipper farks up the delivery, regardless of how well I packaged the shipment?

Incidents happen, I accept that (goes with the territory). But those kind of incidents should be the exception, not the rule. I'm struggling here to grasp the idea that it's okay for the airline to trample, stomp on, throw, or otherwise abuse the luggage I've checked.

Are you arguing that it should not only be expected, but treated as normal activity, for my (or your) luggage to be delivered to me in a damaged state?

Are you saying that the baggage handlers are, without exception, a bunch of gorillas with anger management issues, who cannot handle checked baggage without damaging it?

See, this is a matter of what we would call 'normal expectation.' We're paying an airline to move our baggage from point A to point B. The default expectation (of anyone with a brain) is that the baggage will be delivered in the same condition it was checked.

I'm trying to figure out why you think this is such a problem.

Are you one of those baggage handlers who like to destroy luggage?

Why are you (and so many others) so determined to believe that an airline farking up the baggage is the default state of events?

And why are you so willing to forgive them for it?

I accept accidents and unusual circumstances. I don't accept the idea that the controlling authority (in this case, the airline) should be let off the hook for those accidents.
2013-01-07 04:37:43 AM
1 votes:

TommyymmoT: Entire venues burn to the ground on occasion.


Are you... once bitten twice shy?
2013-01-07 04:28:05 AM
1 votes:
Some of you guys are spending way too much time bickering in this thread. Just make your amusing or interesting post, and move on to the next story. I really think there should be a 1 or 2 post limit per thread.
2013-01-07 04:17:51 AM
1 votes:

Naked Singularity: You know, I'm not going to comment about whether or not this guy should have invested in an indestructable case or not, but I'm going to have to ask:

What's with the idea that we should *expect* that our luggage should risk being destroyed in transit?


No... we just accept it as a reality. The other option is to ship your luggage, take only a carry on... or not fly.

And judging by the state of the industry... the third seems a popular option.
2013-01-07 04:17:33 AM
1 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: Seriously... it's important to point out that ATA approved cases are not only designed for a certain amount of impact resistance... they are shaped to prevent hang ups and problems in the transport equipment to avoid this kind of thing.


I don't fly with any of my guitars anymore. Used to be able to carry them on and stow them in a closet but no more. If the instruments have to travel they are getting crated and freighted.
2013-01-07 04:07:49 AM
1 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: Serious Black: My Maribel is worth about $2,500, and I don't have nearly enough money to fly first class everywhere I go.

Is Maribel a guitar? You leave the "expensive" gear at home.

A $199 Epiphone sounds remarkably similar to a '59 Les Paul in a large venue.


My "cheap" guitar, the Crushinator, is a Squier Strat whose fretboard is so terrible that the strings are automatically out of tune once you pass the fifth fret. I'm pretty sure that would be audible in a large venue.
2013-01-07 04:00:53 AM
1 votes:

Runs_With_Scissors_: digitalrain: optikeye: Why in the fark did he use a soft case for a valuable instrument for air travel?

He could have avoid all this by having a simple hard case to transport the thing.
Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.

Dude had a hard case. The case was rugged enough that it bent a STEEL FARKING BEAM in the elevator.

Delta didn't just drop the ball on this one. They dropped it, ran over it, and kicked it in the gutter.
.
No. He didn't. He was travelling with an original case. Look at the pics upthread of what he should have been transporting his guitar in. In a seat with a ticket for the entire flight.


It was a hard case. It just wasn't some high density unobtanium alloy metal case :) Some folks are going on in this thread like he tried to carry it on in a soft vinyl gig bag or something.
2013-01-07 03:46:22 AM
1 votes:

optikeye: Why in the fark did he use a soft case for a valuable instrument for air travel?

He could have avoid all this by having a simple hard case to transport the thing.
Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.


Dude had a hard case. The case was rugged enough that it bent a STEEL FARKING BEAM in the elevator.

Delta didn't just drop the ball on this one. They dropped it, ran over it, and kicked it in the gutter.
2013-01-07 03:41:20 AM
1 votes:

Runs_With_Scissors_: Tigger:
I find it an amusing study in human stupidity.
I like how, in his head, he is convinced that he alone is right and no one else gets it. He probably thinks of himself as a sort of persecuted genius like Galileo or Copernicus. The only one to see the One True Answer.
Of course a corollary to being this stupid is, of course, that it never occurs to them that the likelihood of them just being a totally pointless farkwit is massively higher.
Brilliantly though, they will literally almost never give up.

There are several posters here who agree with Bob Falfa. I may not agree with his style, but it doesn't make him wrong.

I'll say it again:


Do we know why he was denied? Perhaps the flight was full? Perhaps he was trying to buy a ticket at the farking gate? Were they supposed to hold the flight for him because he didn't plan ahead?

It's hard to have sympathy for someone who is too cheap to buy a travel case, and too cheap to buy a ticket for his expensive guitar in the first place. Seriously, if the guitar is that valuable why didn't he buy a ticket for it?


It's not the rightness or wrongness.

It's the hilarious gibberish accompanying it.

My favorite part was "buy a case strong enough that it wouldn't be crushed by an elevator".
2013-01-07 03:39:19 AM
1 votes:

Runs_With_Scissors_: And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.


Their original flight was diverted due to bad weather. It's all in the article, which you should read.
2013-01-07 03:38:27 AM
1 votes:

Tigger: I find it an amusing study in human stupidity.

I like how, in his head, he is convinced that he alone is right and no one else gets it. He probably thinks of himself as a sort of persecuted genius like Galileo or Copernicus. The only one to see the One True Answer.

Of course a corollary to being this stupid is, of course, that it never occurs to them that the likelihood of them just being a totally pointless farkwit is massively higher.

Brilliantly though, they will literally almost never give up.


That's okay... fun is fun wherever you find it...

Me? I'm enjoying that ya'll have been trolled by a yahoo article... and subby. And that you feel so good about being "right" that your euphoria is driving you to call people names.

Proud of yourself?
2013-01-07 03:37:49 AM
1 votes:

Bob Falfa: FTFA:
While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland.

Also, I'm going to board a flight with my vintage chopsticks that I say are worth $5,000. I mean, I don't have any proof of that or any insurance whatsoever, but I said so. That's good, right?


Actually it's value is easily verified. They have the carcass, and the serial number to work with.
That guitar is worth more than he stated. 1965 ES335s, generally go for $12k, to $15k.
He said it was only worth $10k.

As to the case, it's not a $100 case. It's the original case, which is worth about $400-$600, which makes him even goofier, because a proper flight case would have cost around $200.

Yes, rare guitars are expensive. If you look on Ebay, you can see just guitar necks, without any guitar body, tuners, pickups, no nothing, going for $4,000.
2013-01-07 03:33:25 AM
1 votes:

BlackMtnMan: It didn't LOOK Jewish.


On the plus side... I bet the guy knows lots of good lawyers.
2013-01-07 03:32:49 AM
1 votes:
PS. the hilarious black and white thinking component is always a dead give away. Because these people are relatively low intelligence and low adaptability they take refuge in total adherence to rule based systems.
2013-01-07 03:22:56 AM
1 votes:

optikeye: Why in the fark did he use a soft case for a valuable instrument for air travel?

He could have avoid all this by having a simple hard case to transport the thing.
Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.


Actually, it IS a hard case. It's just not road worthy hard.
The case he had it in, could survive falling down a flight of stairs with no problem.
2013-01-07 03:06:41 AM
1 votes:

Fluorescent Testicle: Bob Falfa: [derp]

Look, I know that it's normal Fark behaviour to not read TFA before spouting off, but really, you're just making a fool of yourself.


divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.



Wow... lots of smart farkers in here biatching about dumb farkers that didn't read the article... that didn't read the article.

Hint: It doesn't say what you're saying it says.
2013-01-07 03:02:53 AM
1 votes:

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

How?


because you either didn't RTFA or are functionally illiterate. Musicians can, and do, buy extra tickets for their instruments on flights to avoid this kind of incident. They even helpfully point that out in the article, and what law allows it. Even for people who have a good insurance policy on the equipment, it doesn't replace that instrument. When this happens to classic pieces, you can't always just go out and buy another one (where, for example, would you go to replace a strad violin?).

As is, this guy needs to let the guitar go. It will never sound the same once repaired.

not so CSB: I had a cello that had been in my family for generations destroyed by an airline when traveling to europe, and while it was fully insured the company chose to repair it instead of replace it because of the rarity/cost. Even then, they would not let me send it to a luthier of my choosing (one recommended by the conductor). I was fortunate enough to be able to use a loaner cello for the rest of my time in europe, a lovely Rocca piece that was part of a collection belonging to one of my host families.

When I got mine back, everyone in the orchestra group gave me condolences. It sounded completely different, and frankly quite horrible. The insurance company and airline combined to completely ruin the sound of centuries old piece of art.

cello case was similar to this style: Link but was a hard shell with better quality padding and restraints inside. When I saw what the case looked like afterward, I was surprised the cello was in as good a shape as it had been.
2013-01-07 03:01:15 AM
1 votes:

divx88: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.


Gosh, maybe there was a PERSON who wanted that seat and the airline thought that that was more important than his farking guitar.
2013-01-07 02:51:33 AM
1 votes:
I bet part of the reason instruments seem to get ruined more often is simply that the airport baggage conveyors are designed with more rectangular shaped objects in mind, and instrument cases are often irregularly shaped. Probably makes it easier to get stuck in some corner of the machine and chewed up. That being said, an instrument getting destroyed like that is a damn shame.
2013-01-07 02:51:08 AM
1 votes:

Pray 4 Mojo: Flight case dude... look into them.

Cyno01: And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied.

No he didn't. Apparently you and subby both failed to RTFA...

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland."


Insofar as the link he showed the employees was a rule allowing musicians to buy a separate seat for their instrument, I'm going to assume that his implied offer was buying the ticket. It seems more believable than the employees go through the hassle of offering him the chance to buy the ticket right then and there. Of course it could have been the lack of foresight on his part not to buy the ticket ahead of time, and the crunch of travel that made carrying it and just putting it in an available space impossible. Really, to me, both perspectives are conceivable.
2013-01-07 02:51:04 AM
1 votes:

n_carrvoigt: He was trying to buy a ticket to put the instrument in the seat next to him. Unless Delta has started selling tickets for the overhead storage bins (which really wouldn't surprise me).


TFA article doesn't say that.

Dude is a dumbass... has a legit gripe and deserves to be compensated... but still a dumbass.
2013-01-07 02:49:16 AM
1 votes:

Bob Falfa: Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


It takes one overhead bin for luggage, but if you have a hard case you can fit backbacks, coats, small bags and lots of other stuff with it with no problem.  It's totally within the rules to have it up there.

The problem though - from experience - is that he flew on Delta.  All the airlines that charge to check luggage completely fill up the overheads every flight.  The trick is to fly on Virign or Jet Blue, because there are always plenty of completely open overheads, even on the cross country flights during the holidays.  I always bring my guitar because it takes forever to get good at it and being away is the best time to put in monster practices, so I am experienced on bringing them.  Fly an airline with a free bag allowance and you should be ok.* **

/*Jet Blue doesn't have a front closet so sometimes they give you a hard time, but just insist.  I promise you the overheads won't be full.  Worst case is you ask someone politely to move their bag from a half full overhead to a second half full one.  Even though they don't have a closet though, Jet Blue is the best for this.
//**Once I flew on a flight and like 4 other guys all had guitars too and I had to valet it, but it was fine.  If you are going to check it, use the valet at the gate and not the checked baggage part.  They store it in a seperate area like where they would keep your dog or something.
2013-01-07 02:47:00 AM
1 votes:

Bob Falfa: Cyno01: Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.

If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off like you have absolutely zero reading comprehension, why dont you take the rest of the evening to reflect and come back and try again fresh tomorrow.

Not trolling, Just sick and tired of people who take up the entire overhead bin with their crap. I'm quite tall and therefore cannot put my bag under the seat in front of me. This is also why I don't fly coach.
As I said, my BIL makes his living playing his trombone all over the world. Number of horns he's had wrecked by airlines? Zero.


He was trying to buy a ticket to put the instrument in the seat next to him. Unless Delta has started selling tickets for the overhead storage bins (which really wouldn't surprise me).
2013-01-07 02:11:18 AM
1 votes:

doglover: Ghastly: Bought a Harmonium when I was in India.

Airline still managed to smash it

That blows.


Luckily I was able to repair it to a functional state. Cosmetically it's a little farked up.
2013-01-07 01:13:24 AM
1 votes:

fusillade762: Can sympathize.


a.abcnews.go.com
2013-01-07 12:24:06 AM
1 votes:
This is why I never check baggage.
 
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