If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Yahoo)   Musician: "I'd like to buy an extra ticket for my $10,000 vintage Gibson guitar." Delta: "No; but at no additional cost to you we'll smash it in an elevator"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 356
    More: Fail, baggage handlers  
•       •       •

29833 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jan 2013 at 2:22 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



356 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all
 
2013-01-07 06:10:26 AM

Oznog: OptimusHime: By "DENIED", it is likely that's because THE FLIGHT WAS FULL.

Why else would Delta NOT sell him an empty seat? "Hey Delta, I need a seat for my guitar, and money is no object". Delta: "We have a seat, but won't take your money, we'd rather leave it empty"
Said no airline, ever.
So why didn't he buy a second seat when he booked, if this was the plan?

Well, perhaps that rule about allowing it as a carry-on CAUSED the problem. This is a very large carry-on, you must admit. He's allowed to do so, but if there's no space for everyone's carry-ons, people will be forced to check bags. This is surely what happened, h ...

Are you responding to my post specifically? Because I think I'm pretty close to Switzerland on this issue on the neutrality spectrum...

But for the sake of argument: Delta as a company would probably sell him a ticket on the spot. They should have the credit card swipers for drinks enabled to buy tickets as well just in that eventuality. But could I see a flight attendant saying "Sir, no, we're happy to check it, but right now you need to sit down."? Absolutely. Because selling someone a seat on the spot takes time these employees aren't paid for, and the people they work for will fire them for less.

Still, I think you're picking a fight where there isn't one to be offered... I don't disagree with your stance, I just think it's a little hasty of a conclusion.

Not responding that specifically. A lot of people kept emphasizing Delta DENIED his request. It seems likely to me that his request was impossible.

I suppose it could also be that the flight attendant found no room for him to carry it on-board, but there WERE unused seats open, but she didn't want to let him strap it in one without a ticket and she was unable to sell him a ticket to put it in a seat.

Seems like if it was that complicated, he would have described it though.


I'm really not trying to draw conclusions here. I'm just saying, I don't know what happened and think we're pretty ill equipped to judge the situation, so a lot of people are casting stones on both sides. I know, I know, , etc.
 
2013-01-07 06:11:39 AM
Sorry, that was supposed to be "I know, I know, [welcometofark.jpg], etc." But clearly I belie my own newness to this game.
 
2013-01-07 06:12:10 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Okay.

You seem to be trying to argue that it's entirely okay for an airline to damage any checked item, simply because the passenger wasn't willing to sent it FedEx.

Again... can't help that.

I already explained that airlines are not shipping companies... and why they are held to a lower standard of service than UPS or FedEx. You can go ahead and keep asking the same question and ignoring my (our) answers if you want... but it's not going to change the answers.

If airlines/airports could spend the time and money to upgrade their system to virtually eliminate baggage damage... they could... but the market has spoken.

customers chose to run through a gauntlet where 1 in every 1000 bags is destroyed... rather than pay more money and spend more time at the airport.


You're assuming that it really requires more effort than they already use in normal activity.

Even FedEx and UPS lose packages in process (they're just held more to that standard than a typical airline).

I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen.

I'm arguing that if I'm paying for me (and now, all too often, for the extra charge for checking my bags), I don't think that it's all that inappropriate for me to expect the airline to give all due diligence to my checked in bags.
 
2013-01-07 06:18:24 AM

Bob Falfa: Cyno01: Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.

If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off like you have absolutely zero reading comprehension, why dont you take the rest of the evening to reflect and come back and try again fresh tomorrow.

Not trolling, Just sick and tired of people who take up the entire overhead bin with their crap. I'm quite tall and therefore cannot put my bag under the seat in front of me. This is also why I don't fly coach.
As I said, my BIL makes his living playing his trombone all over the world. Number of horns he's had wrecked by airlines? Zero.


Oh, you're tall? Then rent a farking cargo van!
 
2013-01-07 06:25:11 AM
If only they made hard cases to transport guitars. Damn.
 
2013-01-07 06:31:55 AM

Naked Singularity: I'm arguing that if I'm paying for me (and now, all too often, for the extra charge for checking my bags), I don't think that it's all that inappropriate for me to expect the airline to give all due diligence to my checked in bags.


There are three kinds of jobs... good, fast and cheap. You get to pick two.

Most airports have a plane landing every minute or so... at a hub, most the passengers are changing planes. Do you expect them to have a guy assigned to carry your bag from your arriving flight to your connecting flight so it arrives safely and on time?

The name of the game is speed... customers demand it. With that speed comes potential risks likes bags being exposed to automated machinery and other perils... like gravity. The airlines also have very little control over the automated systems at the airports... since they don't own, operate or maintain them.

Airlines are (and should be) wholly responsible for the safety of your bag and it's contents while it is in their possession. That's enough for me.
 
2013-01-07 06:40:18 AM
And United breaks guitars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo
 
2013-01-07 06:50:06 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: customers chose to run through a gauntlet where 1 in every 1000 bags is destroyed... rather than pay more money and spend more time at the airport.


And why are you okay with this?

Though it might reinforce your preconceptions, it's actually (usually) cheaper to ship with a package handler than to travel in person with luggage.

But, here's my thing:

Why do so many have the idea that it's okay for an air carrier to fall back on the excuse that it's okay to fail 1 out of a thousand times?

Why is it wrong for me to expect that, if I buy a ticket, that both I and my luggage reach the destination, and do so in the exact same condition that we started from?

This is what I don't get. Why would a passenger airline be held to a lower standard than a package airline?

Is your new Cuisinart more valuable than a human passenger and her luggage?

And, just to get into the baggage bit, let's argue the package handling.

In principle, how is airline package handling significantly different from the package handling used by FedEx and UPS? It's all automated, for the most part, and there's no meaningful distinction between the two.

If FedEx can process a package accurately and without damage, so can a passenger baggage handling system.

To make a point:

It should *never* be the case that the default condition should be to assume that the process will cause damage.

Passenger or Package, the norm should be that the delivered item is in the same state as the originating item.

The exception to this should be rare (even more rare than winning the lottery).
 
2013-01-07 06:52:21 AM
"Smoke on the Water" would sound awesome on that guitar!
 
2013-01-07 06:56:56 AM
Just read through lots of the crap flying back and forth, and from the wording of the article, it is implied he brought up the law about buying an extra seat, ASKED TO BUY A TICKET FOR HIS GUITAR and was denied. If he didn't ask to buy another seat, "he was denied" makes no sense in that context. But that is not for sure. He might not have asked, they might not had any seats available, or he might have asked to buy another seat and was denied even though one was available. Basically we don't know what really happened so arguing is pointless, and everyone is sounding like a jackass.

As for why didn't he just buy a 2nd ticket beforehand? Obviously the best choice, but its not the best business decision to waste $500 every trip if you can almost always just put it in an overhead bin. Maybe he was thinking that because he has been allowed to put it in empty overhead bins without any issues in the past, it would just be a waste of money since if there was a problem he could just buy a seat. Obviously a fully booked flight he had to be on to not miss the gig could be a problem, but the original itinerary might have had time to seek other flights if that was the case.

If the flight wasn't full AND they refused to sell him another ticket, then fark delta. If he didn't ask to buy another seat after bringing up the law he's retarded, or if they denied him because the overhead bins were full AND there were no empty seats to sell him it's on him for not waiting for another flight, but he might not have really had a choice at that point since the gig might have been missed totally if he didn't get on that flight since their travel had gotten so messed up already by that point. Airline should still pay for damages though.

Damn this thread was painful to read, I hate you all. :)
 
2013-01-07 06:57:41 AM
Late to the show, are we blaming the passenger yet for the airlines screw up?
 
2013-01-07 07:00:48 AM

Runs_With_Scissors_: alienated: Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.

you really are not bright, i dont care what score you got on some intelligence test


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.

Do we know why he was denied? Perhaps the flight was full? Perhaps he was trying to buy a ticket at the farking gate? Were they supposed to hold the flight for him because he didn't plan ahead?

It's hard to have sympathy for someone who is too cheap to buy a travel case, and too cheap to buy a ticket for his expensive guitar in the first place. Seriously, if the guitar is that valuable why didn't he buy a ticket for it?


You should have used more ALLCAPS. Maybe slipped in a "this is how libs think" in there for good measure. At this point, you are being out-trolled by Falfa, and he's not really that good.

2.5 / 10
 
2013-01-07 07:01:32 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: I'm arguing that if I'm paying for me (and now, all too often, for the extra charge for checking my bags), I don't think that it's all that inappropriate for me to expect the airline to give all due diligence to my checked in bags.

There are three kinds of jobs... good, fast and cheap. You get to pick two.

Most airports have a plane landing every minute or so... at a hub, most the passengers are changing planes. Do you expect them to have a guy assigned to carry your bag from your arriving flight to your connecting flight so it arrives safely and on time?

The name of the game is speed... customers demand it. With that speed comes potential risks likes bags being exposed to automated machinery and other perils... like gravity. The airlines also have very little control over the automated systems at the airports... since they don't own, operate or maintain them.

Airlines are (and should be) wholly responsible for the safety of your bag and it's contents while it is in their possession. That's enough for me.


Yeah, but we're in the condition where one or the other gets to claim (like it or not) responsibility.

I'm fully familiar with 'fast / cheap / right' (I'm an electrical engineer).

Thing is, in every *legitimate* case, 'right' comes out on top. Fast and / or cheap is a business decision, but only 'right' gets signed off on.

And 'right' means that neither the airline or the airport gets to damage your property (and if they do, they assume the responsibility of fixing it).

And before blaming the passenger (though there can be cause for that), it is entirely up to the business to make the passenger aware of the conditions for risk. Though the article (in this case) is kind of ambiguous regarding what the passenger was willing to do, it is up to the business to clarify the conditions, and regardless, if the airline decided that checking the property was the best choice, it was entirely upon them to make sure they didn't damage it in normal handling.
 
2013-01-07 07:09:25 AM

redundantman: "Smoke on the Water" would sound awesome on that guitar!


True. If properly done, less thin, more textured.
 
2013-01-07 07:09:33 AM

Naked Singularity: And, just to get into the baggage bit, let's argue the package handling.

In principle, how is airline package handling significantly different from the package handling used by FedEx and UPS? It's all automated, for the most part, and there's no meaningful distinction between the two.

If FedEx can process a package accurately and without damage, so can a passenger baggage handling system.


Your Fed Ex package doesn't get from San Francisco to Dallas in a couple hours. The package carriers do not have to move nearly as fast as airlines and airports handling baggage.

UPS and FedEx do not load packages into airplanes one at a time like airlines do. They arrive at the airport in pre-packed bins that easily load in the plane using machinery.

99% of packages shipped by package companies are rectangular cardboard boxes. Airlines deal with a myriad of different styles and sizes of bags and cases that have handles, straps, wheels or buckles.

It's not the same.

Also... I work in a business where I deal with a lot of special freight that typically needs to be shipped rapidly. With "non standard" items that do not pack well because of their size or shape... I see damage about 25% of the time. It's part of dealing with an imperfect world.
 
2013-01-07 07:10:43 AM

Naked Singularity: Pray 4 Mojo: customers chose to run through a gauntlet where 1 in every 1000 bags is destroyed... rather than pay more money and spend more time at the airport.

And why are you okay with this?

Though it might reinforce your preconceptions, it's actually (usually) cheaper to ship with a package handler than to travel in person with luggage.

But, here's my thing:

Why do so many have the idea that it's okay for an air carrier to fall back on the excuse that it's okay to fail 1 out of a thousand times?

Why is it wrong for me to expect that, if I buy a ticket, that both I and my luggage reach the destination, and do so in the exact same condition that we started from?

This is what I don't get. Why would a passenger airline be held to a lower standard than a package airline?

Is your new Cuisinart more valuable than a human passenger and her luggage?

And, just to get into the baggage bit, let's argue the package handling.

In principle, how is airline package handling significantly different from the package handling used by FedEx and UPS? It's all automated, for the most part, and there's no meaningful distinction between the two.

If FedEx can process a package accurately and without damage, so can a passenger baggage handling system.

To make a point:

It should *never* be the case that the default condition should be to assume that the process will cause damage.

Passenger or Package, the norm should be that the delivered item is in the same state as the originating item.

The exception to this should be rare (even more rare than winning the lottery).


As was stated before, FedEx has overnight to get it done, and a passenger flight has hours. People are not ok with waiting around for the baggage people for very long while they're sitting on the plane ready to go. They do the best they can with the time constraints they have (let's just ignore the bad employees who break shiat on purpose for now), and dealing with packages and people in less time is much harder than what FedEx has to do so there will be more bags misplaced or damaged in the haste. More late connections and other logistical challenges too. For a FedEx center, all the planes show up at a hub at night, they unload the planes, sort the packages, reload the planes, and they go back to where they came from. Way simpler than everyone's baggage.
 
2013-01-07 07:13:08 AM

Naked Singularity: Why are you (and so many others) so determined to believe that an airline farking up the baggage is the default state of events?


Personally, I was going to say it was the frequency of occurrence due to my gear being trashed on numerous occasions. That prompted my curiosity to see if there were any statistics. Found the following nifty links. Problem is, Fark doesn't like them for some reason (probably me or those annoying spaces that appear in the link even after I remove them), but they point to the DOT's list of airport delays and count of "mishandled" luggage:

https://ntl.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/397/~/monthly-airli ne -baggage-loss-and-damage-statistics

From there, click on the first link:

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/index.htm
 
2013-01-07 07:14:31 AM

probesport: Late to the show, are we blaming the passenger yet for the airlines screw up?


I'm pretty sure we're blaming the airline for their screw up... and blaming the passenger for giving them the opportunity.
 
2013-01-07 07:16:13 AM

Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).


That explains a lot actually.
 
2013-01-07 07:18:26 AM
Also FedEx takes all its stuff to a main sorting center that is huge and does nothing by sort packages, where passenger baggage gets sorted on small systems at every airport. Maybe if you were ok with your package not being on the same plane as you, have it go to a sorting center and show up the next day, then you could expect same quality of service as FedEx.
 
2013-01-07 07:18:50 AM
For working stiff musicians, it's tough to fly - you either have to spring for an ATA-approved flight case (recommended but pricey), or hope you can carry it on. The guys who make the big bucks don't every take their '59 burst on a plane. Everything you see on stage? Replicas set up like their prize "Pearly Gates" guitar. I think Billy Gibbons has probably 5 or 6 all ready to go. That 6-figure irreplaceable guitar? Back home in the studio.
 
2013-01-07 07:20:17 AM

TommyymmoT: I toured for many years, and I always stressed to NOT bring anything with you that you can't afford to have damaged or stolen.
Yes, your '57 Les Paul is very nice, but if we're flying, leave it home and buy a beater that does the job.
I've picked up my share of empty guitar cases from from luggage carousels, and that sinking feeling when you pick up that case, is not good.

I've started building, buying and selling the occasional expensive instrument, and If I sell something over $1200, I charge an extra $150 to cover the cost of a used flight case to ship it in.
Airlines aren't the only bunglers out there.

This, is how that guitar should have been traveling.
[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 259x194]

[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 316x159]
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 296x170]

Fact is, even just the original Gibson CASE that was destroyed, cost more than any of the proper cases pictured above.


Ding ding ding. What the fark is this guy thinking using that case?
 
2013-01-07 07:31:42 AM

Bigdogdaddy: My old man left me an es-125 archtop. It is one of my first memories. I know it's not worth a bundle, but I would be very pissed if something happened to it.

[los-angeles-guitar-shop.com image 800x602]

I just wish I could play better. ~sigh~


I was hoping this would turn into Guitar Porn instead of the troll wars on airline handlers and yahoo article writers.

I started playing again a few years back, and amassed a handful of guitars - all mine are sub $500.00 models.
Included are Epiphone PR150, Madeira A12, Gretch Americana (Way Out West), Recording King Senorita, Seagull Encore, Martin DX, Squire Strat, Magnum Backbreaker, Ibenez Artcore, Dot Studio.

I play well enough to amuse myself, and sing worse, hence the smaller investments.
But I love looking at nice guitars as much as anyone else that plays.

Can we now see some more - doesn't anyone else want to brag?
 
2013-01-07 07:32:24 AM

FormlessOne: Then you missed the point where he asked to buy a ticket, and was denied. From the article:


Most flights are sold out by the time you get to the airport to check your shiat in.  If they had a ticket to sell him, I'm sure they would have.
 
2013-01-07 07:32:45 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).

That explains a lot actually.


A pastor, a doctor and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers. The engineer fumed, "What's with these guys?!" The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but they are SLOW!" The pastor said, "Hey, here comes Marshal. Let's tell him."

"Hi, George. Say, what's with that group ahead of us? They're really slow!" The marshal replied, "Oh, yes, that's a group of blind firefighters who lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime."

The group was silent for a moment. Finally, the pastor said, "That's so sad... I will say a special prayer for them on Sunday."

The doctor said, " I'll contact my ophthalmologist buddy and see if there's anything he can do for them."

The engineer said, "Why can't they farking play at night?"
 
2013-01-07 07:34:58 AM
Anyone who believes the passenger was not a fool for his lackadaisical attitude towards flying with his instrument is a fool.

Anyone who believes that mean-old-Delta just wouldn't sell him an extra seat because they hate money so much is also a fool.

Anyone who isn't aware that when the overhead bin space is full that they ask passengers with large baggage to check said baggage is, wait for it...a fool.

Anyone who believes that we should just accept the damage done to our belongings in the care of the airlines is also foolish.

Delta owes this guy money for the repair to his guitar. He shouldn't be so foolish in the future.
 
2013-01-07 07:36:34 AM

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


It is mentioned there's also the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, which he quoted and was denied, where he pays for an extra seat, the airline must comply. Your comment is invalid because the airline refused to follow -this- law. You know who else breaks guitars? United.
 
2013-01-07 07:38:54 AM

People_are_Idiots: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

It is mentioned there's also the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, which he quoted and was denied, where he pays for an extra seat, the airline must comply. Your comment is invalid because the airline refused to follow -this- law. You know who else breaks guitars? United.


When was the last time you've flown around the holidays? I took six separate flights (on Delta) within two weeks around Christmas this year. EVERY flight is full by the time you get to the airport with multiple passengers on standby. What? Should they bump someone to fly his guitar?
 
2013-01-07 07:43:15 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).

That explains a lot actually.


Oh, clever :)

My issue (such as it is), isn't whether a package shipment process is or isn't better than passenger baggage handling (and I can tell you that even the package handling is automated in a fairly similar manner as the baggage handling for passenger flights, it just has some advantage in routing, and a good packing algorithm), it's the idea that it's acceptable for *any* baggage handling to damage the product in any but the most exceptional circumstances.

Maybe this guy should have done things differently (better case, better preparation for travel, and so forth), but there is almost never any legitimate justification for the baggage handling process to *ever* damage an item being handled.

There's two potential scenarios for this kind of thing. Either he gets informed (up front) that he has to package this in a specific manner (or buy a seat for it, which could be implied from the article), or that it is processed in a way that doesn't destroy the package.

There are very few *good* reasons for a package handler to allow the package to be damaged. Unmanaged automation isn't really much of an excuse.
 
2013-01-07 07:43:23 AM

gulogulo: Anyone who believes the passenger was not a fool for his lackadaisical attitude towards flying with his instrument is a fool.

Anyone who believes that mean-old-Delta just wouldn't sell him an extra seat because they hate money so much is also a fool.

Anyone who isn't aware that when the overhead bin space is full that they ask passengers with large baggage to check said baggage is, wait for it...a fool.

Anyone who believes that we should just accept the damage done to our belongings in the care of the airlines is also foolish.

Delta owes this guy money for the repair to his guitar. He shouldn't be so foolish in the future.


That's some good recapping there Lou.

/I have you farkied
//Dont remember why
///I take bad notes
////We didn't do it did we?
 
2013-01-07 07:45:42 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).

That explains a lot actually.

A pastor, a doctor and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers. The engineer fumed, "What's with these guys?!" The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but they are SLOW!" The pastor said, "Hey, here comes Marshal. Let's tell him."

"Hi, George. Say, what's with that group ahead of us? They're really slow!" The marshal replied, "Oh, yes, that's a group of blind firefighters who lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime."

The group was silent for a moment. Finally, the pastor said, "That's so sad... I will say a special prayer for them on Sunday."

The doctor said, " I'll contact my ophthalmologist buddy and see if there's anything he can do for them."

The engineer said, "Why can't they farking play at night?"


That's a civil engineer :)

An electrical engineer would have set up the lights :o)
 
2013-01-07 07:47:51 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: gulogulo: Anyone who believes the passenger was not a fool for his lackadaisical attitude towards flying with his instrument is a fool.

Anyone who believes that mean-old-Delta just wouldn't sell him an extra seat because they hate money so much is also a fool.

Anyone who isn't aware that when the overhead bin space is full that they ask passengers with large baggage to check said baggage is, wait for it...a fool.

Anyone who believes that we should just accept the damage done to our belongings in the care of the airlines is also foolish.

Delta owes this guy money for the repair to his guitar. He shouldn't be so foolish in the future.

That's some good recapping there Lou.

/I have you farkied
//Dont remember why
///I take bad notes
////We didn't do it did we?


Maybe..or I was being a raving biatch one day. It's hard to tell. I hope it wasn't the latter, but it's seriously possible. We'll say I was wonderful, ok? Hush..don't look back. Never look back.
 
2013-01-07 07:48:14 AM

Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


I'm sure that Pelican would be happy to make something you could park a truck on and not take any damage for him.

/Loves Pelican cases.
//Too damned expensive, though
 
2013-01-07 07:49:22 AM

Runs_With_Scissors_: Do we know why he was denied? Perhaps the flight was full? Perhaps he was trying to buy a ticket at the farking gate? Were they supposed to hold the flight for him because he didn't plan ahead?

It's hard to have sympathy for someone who is too cheap to buy a travel case, and too cheap to buy a ticket for his expensive guitar in the first place. Seriously, if the guitar is that valuable why didn't he buy a ticket for it?


This, so goddamned much.
 
2013-01-07 07:54:22 AM

Naked Singularity: Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).

That explains a lot actually.

Oh, clever :)

My issue (such as it is), isn't whether a package shipment process is or isn't better than passenger baggage handling (and I can tell you that even the package handling is automated in a fairly similar manner as the baggage handling for passenger flights, it just has some advantage in routing, and a good packing algorithm), it's the idea that it's acceptable for *any* baggage handling to damage the product in any but the most exceptional circumstances.

Maybe this guy should have done things differently (better case, better preparation for travel, and so forth), but there is almost never any legitimate justification for the baggage handling process to *ever* damage an item being handled.

There's two potential scenarios for this kind of thing. Either he gets informed (up front) that he has to package this in a specific manner (or buy a seat for it, which could be implied from the article), or that it is processed in a way that doesn't destroy the package.

There are very few *good* reasons for a package handler to allow the package to be damaged. Unmanaged automation isn't really much of an excuse.


You're handing your property to somebody else to take care of for you. It is not reasonable to expect the person/business you are giving it to to care for it like you would because of their limitations of time, resources... etc

There is a minimum level of care that should be taken... disagreements on what that level is are reasonable.

However... any person that hand over an irreplaceable item to somebody else to care for when there are questions about the level of care that will be taken... well... that person is a moron. Total, flaming, glowing, epic moron.
 
2013-01-07 07:59:28 AM

OptimusHime: Pray 4 Mojo: Flight case dude... look into them.

Cyno01: And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied.

No he didn't. Apparently you and subby both failed to RTFA...

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland."

Insofar as the link he showed the employees was a rule allowing musicians to buy a separate seat for their instrument, I'm going to assume that his implied offer was buying the ticket. It seems more believable than the employees go through the hassle of offering him the chance to buy the ticket right then and there. Of course it could have been the lack of foresight on his part not to buy the ticket ahead of time, and the crunch of travel that made carrying it and just putting it in an available space impossible. Really, to me, both perspectives are conceivable.


His flight was diverted and he missed his connection. It's kind of hard to buy your ticket in advance when this happens!

Did anyone read TFA?
 
2013-01-07 08:02:41 AM

gulogulo: People_are_Idiots: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

It is mentioned there's also the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, which he quoted and was denied, where he pays for an extra seat, the airline must comply. Your comment is invalid because the airline refused to follow -this- law. You know who else breaks guitars? United.

When was the last time you've flown around the holidays? I took six separate flights (on Delta) within two weeks around Christmas this year. EVERY flight is full by the time you get to the airport with multiple passengers on standby. What? Should they bump someone to fly his guitar?


Didn't say they had to give up a seat for his guitar, but allow it on when he pays for an extra seat. That or yes they could bump him or someone who bought a bump-able seat (which can be done with compensation).
 
2013-01-07 08:04:11 AM

Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


The article said the case bent a steel beam. He's an idiot for flying Delta.

/ sorry Drew
 
2013-01-07 08:04:28 AM

Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).

That explains a lot actually.

Oh, clever :)

My issue (such as it is), isn't whether a package shipment process is or isn't better than passenger baggage handling (and I can tell you that even the package handling is automated in a fairly similar manner as the baggage handling for passenger flights, it just has some advantage in routing, and a good packing algorithm), it's the idea that it's acceptable for *any* baggage handling to damage the product in any but the most exceptional circumstances.

Maybe this guy should have done things differently (better case, better preparation for travel, and so forth), but there is almost never any legitimate justification for the baggage handling process to *ever* damage an item being handled.

There's two potential scenarios for this kind of thing. Either he gets informed (up front) that he has to package this in a specific manner (or buy a seat for it, which could be implied from the article), or that it is processed in a way that doesn't destroy the package.

There are very few *good* reasons for a package handler to allow the package to be damaged. Unmanaged automation isn't really much of an excuse.

You're handing your property to somebody else to take care of for you. It is not reasonable to expect the person/business you are giving it to to care for it like you would because of their limitations of time, resources... etc

There is a minimum level of care that should be taken... disagreements on what that level is are reasonable.

However... any person that hand over an irreplaceable item to somebody else to care for when there are questions about the level of care that will be taken... well... that person is a moron. Total, flaming, glowing, epic moron.


I liken this to crossing the street in a crosswalk that has no lights. Sure, you have the right of way. Sure the cars have to stop. And if a car hits you, they will have to face the punishment. But in the mean time you're broken and smeared all over the roadway. You can biatch and moan while choking on your own teeth, but in the end you still got farked up and you will still have to go through the process of getting better. Putting things you care about in someone else's control with complete blind trust is really just asking for trouble. When I fly, I go in expecting something is probably going to go wrong. I anticipate it and try to make every preparation possible for that eventuality (e.g. valuables go in a small carryon that I have on my person at all times and will fit under the seat. I don't travel with expensive things that might have be gate checked, never book a flight with less than 1 hour 15 minutes layover between flights, etc.).
 
2013-01-07 08:05:19 AM

SnakeLee: The problem though - from experience - is that he flew on Delta.  All the airlines that charge to check luggage completely fill up the overheads every flight.  The trick is to fly on Virign or Jet Blue, because there are always plenty of completely open overheads, even on the cross country flights during the holidays.  I always bring my guitar because it takes forever to get good at it and being away is the best time to put in monster practices, so I am experienced on bringing them.  Fly an airline with a free bag allowance and you should be ok.


I just flew to Amsterdam over the holidays on Delta, and got one bag checked free of additional charge.
 
2013-01-07 08:08:47 AM

People_are_Idiots: Didn't say they had to give up a seat for his guitar, but allow it on when he pays for an extra seat. That or yes they could bump him or someone who bought a bump-able seat (which can be done with compensation).


They are going to bump a passenger for a guitar?I guarantee you, too, that there were people who already paid for a plane ticket and were waiting on stanby. They would have preference over his guitar, and the airline has every right to make that call. And why do you think they have the 'buy another seat' requirement' if not so he can put it in the seat.
 
2013-01-07 08:10:06 AM

Flab: Did anyone read TFA?


I did!

If the airline was honoring his ticket to get him to his destination... he would have already had the ticket (had he bought one like he should have).

If he booked the flight and paid for it after landing in Rochester (see, i did read it)... he could have bought a ticket then.

If the flight from buffalo was fully booked and didn't have a seat for his guitar... well... too late to do anything since he left home with the guitar in it's lightweight, non ATA approved case. Rolling the dice at that point.
 
2013-01-07 08:18:32 AM

gulogulo: ////We didn't do it did we?

Maybe..or I was being a raving biatch one day. It's hard to tell. I hope it wasn't the latter, but it's seriously possible. We'll say I was wonderful, ok? Hush..don't look back. Never look back.


Strange... I don't recall putting a photo on my profile.

I'll hafta make an actual note I guess.
 
2013-01-07 08:20:17 AM

People_are_Idiots: It is mentioned there's also the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, which he quoted and was denied, where he pays for an extra seat, the airline must comply. Your comment is invalid because the airline refused to follow -this- law.


Clearly you don't fly very often.  Probably 7 out of 10 domestic flights have people on standby denied tickets.  Probably 20% of the time, there are people with paid tickets getting bumped from the flight.  Further, if there are enough passengers to fill the overhead space I can guarantee that the flight had no available seats.

Yes, they must sell him a ticket, but only if they have tickets available, and they can't bump passengers for it.
 
2013-01-07 08:35:59 AM
When a guitarist and singer for a Hanukkah-themed rock band can afford a a 1965 Gibson ES-335, then I no longer believe in the starving artist myth
 
2013-01-07 08:53:11 AM
Two things I learned in this thread:

1) Don't bring an instrument into an airport under any circumstances.
2) Bob Falfa was beat up by a gang of musicians when he was a kid.
 
2013-01-07 09:05:14 AM

Naked Singularity: Me, buying a ticket, is an implicit contract. One that the carrier agrees to.


Shut up. You don't know what the fark you're talking about.

You buying a ticket makes you party to an EXPRESSLY WRITTEN contract... the Contract of Carriage.

http://www.delta.com/content/dam/delta-www/pdfs/legal/contract_of_car r iage_dom.pdf

Of special interest may be Rule 190 -- Section I-1a on page 38, wherein Delta states their maximum liability for any one piece of checked baggage will be $3,300 unless the passenger elects to purchase "excess valuation" coverage for up to $5,000 of value. By checking baggage on the airline, you represent to the airline that your checked baggage is a) easily replaceable, b) reasonably and properly packed, and c) not valued over $5,000, because Delta refuses to carry precious and highly valuable items in checked baggage (see Rule 190 -- Section F for the complete list).

So, regardless of how you THINK airline baggage OUGHT to work... it doesn't matter. You buying a ticket means effectively that you've signed an agreement stating your baggage is worth $3,300 or less. If you don't like it -- find someone else to carry it.
 
2013-01-07 09:07:16 AM
I'm very confused here. Most of you are defending this guy, who apparently makes his living playing this guitar, who carries it around in a leather case on commercial airlines. There are truly nearly indestructible cases for instruments made all over the world. AND I could be mistaken there are ways to ship delicate items by special carriers with special handling and yes it costs more. If you are too cheap to buy your kid a seat on the plane, don't be surprised when they do not survive the baggage compartment. Who would want to listen to a jew themed rock band anyway?
 
2013-01-07 09:07:24 AM
Too much derp in this thread to read.

Guy should have had it professionally packed and shipped rather than try to fly with it in the first place.

The end.
 
2013-01-07 09:17:35 AM
Hey, non-rich/non-famous musicians.... STOP TRAVELLING WITH YOUR PRICELESS FARKING INSTRUMENTS!! GET A CHEAPY AND HAVE IT PROFESSIONALLY SETUP. YOU'LL BE FINE!!!
 
Displayed 50 of 356 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report