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(Yahoo)   Musician: "I'd like to buy an extra ticket for my $10,000 vintage Gibson guitar." Delta: "No; but at no additional cost to you we'll smash it in an elevator"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 356
    More: Fail, baggage handlers  
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29838 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Jan 2013 at 2:22 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-07 12:11:38 AM  
content8.flixster.com

Can sympathize.
 
2013-01-07 12:17:49 AM  
Why... why did I know before I clicked the link that it would be a 335? I always dreamed of owning one

/AND THOSE FREAKING NEANDERTHALS DESTROYED IT
//hanging is too good for them
 
2013-01-07 12:24:06 AM  
This is why I never check baggage.
 
2013-01-07 12:25:29 AM  
Every time I see someone traveling by air with an instrument, I'm terrified for them.  Airline employees, in my experiences, are marginally competent at best.  I can't imagine having to entrust anything of real value to the baggage handlers of any airline.
 
2013-01-07 12:41:00 AM  
This is exactly the type of thing a Hanukkah-themed rock band should expect.
 
2013-01-07 01:13:24 AM  

fusillade762: Can sympathize.


a.abcnews.go.com
 
2013-01-07 01:14:40 AM  
I saw them in concert at a Jewish youth group event once, I love Gusters older stuff so was kind of cool to get a little of the Guster experience
 
2013-01-07 01:41:39 AM  
Bought a Harmonium when I was in India. Wrapped it with bubble wrap 40 centimetres deep on all sides. Put it in heavy duty cardboard 3 centimetres thick. Wrapped it another 15 centimetres deep in bubble wrap.

Airline still managed to smash it. I think when airlines see "musician" as occupation on your visa they smash the shiat out of your stuff just to make sure.
 
2013-01-07 01:43:48 AM  
I used to have the same guitar, 'cept it was a '61.  My heart weeps.
 
2013-01-07 01:49:37 AM  

Ghastly: Bought a Harmonium when I was in India.

Airline still managed to smash it


That blows.
 
2013-01-07 02:11:18 AM  

doglover: Ghastly: Bought a Harmonium when I was in India.

Airline still managed to smash it

That blows.


Luckily I was able to repair it to a functional state. Cosmetically it's a little farked up.
 
2013-01-07 02:14:45 AM  
I have a German violin (I won't name the maker here), that I would not trust to anybody. Mostly because I can't afford the insurance policy on it. I checked with Allstate, and they said they wouldn't insure it, then I checked Lloyds of London for shiats and giggles. HOLY CRAP! It would cost more than my car. That fiddle sits next to me everywhere I travel. I don't trust people, and I don't let other people touch it. That fiddle was a gift from a master Luthier. If you try to pull that fiddle out of my hands, I'll sock you in the mouth, while holding on to the case. That fiddle is my baby. I have a crappy Brazilian bow, but that violin is worth a lot of money.
 
2013-01-07 02:20:18 AM  
Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.
 
2013-01-07 02:20:22 AM  
Ok, the way I read the story was that he just tried to get them to let him carry the guitar on, and cited the congressional act to help his case - but didn't go so far as to buy a ticket.  If that's the case, he's an idiot for leaving a $10K instrument in the hands of the baggage monkeys.  It's still their fault it was mangled in the elevator, but he should have known better than to leave itin their care.
 
2013-01-07 02:25:10 AM  
He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"
 
2013-01-07 02:25:59 AM  
Hanukkah and hockey-themed rock bands? lol wut
 
2013-01-07 02:26:00 AM  

me texan: Ok, the way I read the story was that he just tried to get them to let him carry the guitar on, and cited the congressional act to help his case - but didn't go so far as to buy a ticket.  If that's the case, he's an idiot for leaving a $10K instrument in the hands of the baggage monkeys.  It's still their fault it was mangled in the elevator, but he should have known better than to leave itin their care.


Then you missed the point where he asked to buy a ticket, and was denied. From the article:

While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland.

"I've always carried it on," Schneider, who also tours as the lead singer of the hockey-themed rock group the Zambonis, told Yahoo News. "Never been a problem before."

Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.

But he was denied.


He tried, Delta humped a bunk, and the result was squished stringamajig.
 
2013-01-07 02:30:18 AM  

Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


I've seen airlines turn those nearly indestructible cases into Swiss cheese before. A good friend of mine's cello was mangled and destroyed that way. As far as I can tell airlines go out of their way to smash instruments. I managed to get lucky the one time I flew with my viola and there was a policy at the time that they could store it in a closet as carry on and not checked.

My friend was not so lucky and lost a horn on that same flight.

/after looking at the case for that horn they had to have purposefully gone out of their way to smash it
//flattened and chunks taken out
 
2013-01-07 02:31:44 AM  

Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.


Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.
 
2013-01-07 02:32:26 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I have a German violin (I won't name the maker here), that I would not trust to anybody. Mostly because I can't afford the insurance policy on it. I checked with Allstate, and they said they wouldn't insure it, then I checked Lloyds of London for shiats and giggles. HOLY CRAP! It would cost more than my car. That fiddle sits next to me everywhere I travel. I don't trust people, and I don't let other people touch it. That fiddle was a gift from a master Luthier. If you try to pull that fiddle out of my hands, I'll sock you in the mouth, while holding on to the case. That fiddle is my baby. I have a crappy Brazilian bow, but that violin is worth a lot of money.


Was his name Lex, by any chance?
 
2013-01-07 02:33:58 AM  

Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

I've seen airlines turn those nearly indestructible cases into Swiss cheese before. A good friend of mine's cello was mangled and destroyed that way. As far as I can tell airlines go out of their way to smash instruments. I managed to get lucky the one time I flew with my viola and there was a policy at the time that they could store it in a closet as carry on and not checked.

My friend was not so lucky and lost a horn on that same flight.

/after looking at the case for that horn they had to have purposefully gone out of their way to smash it
//flattened and chunks taken out


Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
Guess you have to obey the rules and check bags that don't fit into overhead bins like the rest of us mortals. Boo farking hoo.
Seems like somebody could make a fortune make really, really good instrument cases.
 
2013-01-07 02:34:44 AM  

Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...
 
2013-01-07 02:34:55 AM  

Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.


How?
 
2013-01-07 02:35:04 AM  

Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


Pretty sure he did.

"The case carrying Schneider's semihollow-body guitar was lodged between the mobile service elevator and a rail on the loading dock, shaking the elevator door. The case even bent a steel beam. "

And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied. This is entirely the airlines fault.
 
2013-01-07 02:35:39 AM  
Damn, I can only imagine how pissed this guy would be.
Replaced the neck of my POS Iceman last year when a shelf collapsed onto it
 
2013-01-07 02:36:12 AM  

Bob Falfa: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

I've seen airlines turn those nearly indestructible cases into Swiss cheese before. A good friend of mine's cello was mangled and destroyed that way. As far as I can tell airlines go out of their way to smash instruments. I managed to get lucky the one time I flew with my viola and there was a policy at the time that they could store it in a closet as carry on and not checked.

My friend was not so lucky and lost a horn on that same flight.

/after looking at the case for that horn they had to have purposefully gone out of their way to smash it
//flattened and chunks taken out

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
Guess you have to obey the rules and check bags that don't fit into overhead bins like the rest of us mortals. Boo farking hoo.
Seems like somebody could make a fortune make really, really good instrument cases.


If the case is good enough, the instrument will disappear instead of being mangled. Problem solved!
 
2013-01-07 02:36:14 AM  

Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...


Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.
 
2013-01-07 02:36:58 AM  
Why in the fark did he use a soft case for a valuable instrument for air travel?

He could have avoid all this by having a simple hard case to transport the thing.
Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.
 
2013-01-07 02:38:22 AM  

Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.


If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off like you have absolutely zero reading comprehension, why dont you take the rest of the evening to reflect and come back and try again fresh tomorrow.
 
2013-01-07 02:40:26 AM  

Bob Falfa: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

I've seen airlines turn those nearly indestructible cases into Swiss cheese before. A good friend of mine's cello was mangled and destroyed that way. As far as I can tell airlines go out of their way to smash instruments. I managed to get lucky the one time I flew with my viola and there was a policy at the time that they could store it in a closet as carry on and not checked.

My friend was not so lucky and lost a horn on that same flight.

/after looking at the case for that horn they had to have purposefully gone out of their way to smash it
//flattened and chunks taken out

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
Guess you have to obey the rules and check bags that don't fit into overhead bins like the rest of us mortals. Boo farking hoo.
Seems like somebody could make a fortune make really, really good instrument cases.


Seems to me that's the point of, what, both of those stories? People out there already make DAMN good cases. Unfortunately, people out there alos make multi-ton vehicles and give them to $10-an-hour employees at airports.
 
2013-01-07 02:40:34 AM  

Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.


He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.
 
2013-01-07 02:41:11 AM  
Too bad he doesn't have a guitar, he could write a song about it.


/that sucks.
//farking delta.
 
2013-01-07 02:42:55 AM  

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


Again dude, reading comprehension.

"Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied."
 
2013-01-07 02:43:20 AM  

Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.


Granted, I've been drinking so I may not get the point, but I think the complaint's main point is that he had legitimate precedent to buy the instrument a seat, was refused, and then suffered what one could logically consider the consequences of not being prepared for such a refusal.

Granted, I'm a bit touchy about even my worthless possessions, and will try to prepare for every conceivable instance ahead of time, but as far as dealing with the airline and its employees, it's a legitimate complaint that he should have been allowed, by their own rules, to buy a ticket for it or stow it in an available space.

But I do recognize your point that if it was that valuable it should be protected against human incompetence better.
 
2013-01-07 02:43:42 AM  

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


Let us repeat, since you are obviously suffering from serious brain damage.  Federal law allows musicians to buy an extra seat for a musical instrument.  He attempted to do so, the airline refused.

Let's repeat for the slow (that would be you).  The airline ignored a federal law that is meant to protect valuable instruments, then caused serious damage to the instrument.  The exact thing the law is supposed to prevent.

So who's the idiot, you farking idiot?
 
2013-01-07 02:44:17 AM  

Cyno01: Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.

If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off like you have absolutely zero reading comprehension, why dont you take the rest of the evening to reflect and come back and try again fresh tomorrow.


Not trolling, Just sick and tired of people who take up the entire overhead bin with their crap. I'm quite tall and therefore cannot put my bag under the seat in front of me. This is also why I don't fly coach.
As I said, my BIL makes his living playing his trombone all over the world. Number of horns he's had wrecked by airlines? Zero.
 
2013-01-07 02:46:24 AM  
Flight case dude... look into them.

Cyno01: And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied.


No he didn't. Apparently you and subby both failed to RTFA...

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland."
 
2013-01-07 02:46:30 AM  
two emails he sent to Delta chief executive Richard Anderson were not returned.

No shiat. It's probably in his spam folder.

Also, why did he pack his semi hollow-body guitar in a soft vinyl case?
 
2013-01-07 02:47:00 AM  

Bob Falfa: Cyno01: Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.

If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off like you have absolutely zero reading comprehension, why dont you take the rest of the evening to reflect and come back and try again fresh tomorrow.

Not trolling, Just sick and tired of people who take up the entire overhead bin with their crap. I'm quite tall and therefore cannot put my bag under the seat in front of me. This is also why I don't fly coach.
As I said, my BIL makes his living playing his trombone all over the world. Number of horns he's had wrecked by airlines? Zero.


He was trying to buy a ticket to put the instrument in the seat next to him. Unless Delta has started selling tickets for the overhead storage bins (which really wouldn't surprise me).
 
2013-01-07 02:47:17 AM  
What a miserable situation! And that's why when I hit the road, I do NOT bring an heirloom. That's just me.
 
2013-01-07 02:47:20 AM  
This is a bad story.
 
2013-01-07 02:47:37 AM  

CMcMahon: Hanukkah and hockey-themed rock bands? lol wut


Sounds like the plot for Happy Gilmore 2, or maybe The Wedding Singer 2. Either way, I hope Adam Sandler never hears of this.
 
2013-01-07 02:48:02 AM  
"It was this crazy sound," Schneider said. "Metal on metal."

A jam session gone wrong.
 
2013-01-07 02:49:16 AM  

Bob Falfa: Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


It takes one overhead bin for luggage, but if you have a hard case you can fit backbacks, coats, small bags and lots of other stuff with it with no problem.  It's totally within the rules to have it up there.

The problem though - from experience - is that he flew on Delta.  All the airlines that charge to check luggage completely fill up the overheads every flight.  The trick is to fly on Virign or Jet Blue, because there are always plenty of completely open overheads, even on the cross country flights during the holidays.  I always bring my guitar because it takes forever to get good at it and being away is the best time to put in monster practices, so I am experienced on bringing them.  Fly an airline with a free bag allowance and you should be ok.* **

/*Jet Blue doesn't have a front closet so sometimes they give you a hard time, but just insist.  I promise you the overheads won't be full.  Worst case is you ask someone politely to move their bag from a half full overhead to a second half full one.  Even though they don't have a closet though, Jet Blue is the best for this.
//**Once I flew on a flight and like 4 other guys all had guitars too and I had to valet it, but it was fine.  If you are going to check it, use the valet at the gate and not the checked baggage part.  They store it in a seperate area like where they would keep your dog or something.
 
2013-01-07 02:49:55 AM  
According to the story, he claims to have a $10,000 guitar, and he's asking for $1980?
FTFA:

Schneider, though, says he isn't looking for that kind of fame.

"I'm not a greedy dude," he said. "I'm just looking for $1,980."


Did he misplace a decimal in the value of his instrument?

Also FTFA: The Federal Aviation Administration will permit any instrument that can be safely stored in the overhead compartment or underneath a seat to be treated as carry-on luggage.

Would his guitar fit? If so, he should have carried it on.
 
2013-01-07 02:51:04 AM  

n_carrvoigt: He was trying to buy a ticket to put the instrument in the seat next to him. Unless Delta has started selling tickets for the overhead storage bins (which really wouldn't surprise me).


TFA article doesn't say that.

Dude is a dumbass... has a legit gripe and deserves to be compensated... but still a dumbass.
 
2013-01-07 02:51:08 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Flight case dude... look into them.

Cyno01: And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied.

No he didn't. Apparently you and subby both failed to RTFA...

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland."


Insofar as the link he showed the employees was a rule allowing musicians to buy a separate seat for their instrument, I'm going to assume that his implied offer was buying the ticket. It seems more believable than the employees go through the hassle of offering him the chance to buy the ticket right then and there. Of course it could have been the lack of foresight on his part not to buy the ticket ahead of time, and the crunch of travel that made carrying it and just putting it in an available space impossible. Really, to me, both perspectives are conceivable.
 
2013-01-07 02:51:33 AM  
I bet part of the reason instruments seem to get ruined more often is simply that the airport baggage conveyors are designed with more rectangular shaped objects in mind, and instrument cases are often irregularly shaped. Probably makes it easier to get stuck in some corner of the machine and chewed up. That being said, an instrument getting destroyed like that is a damn shame.
 
2013-01-07 02:51:50 AM  
dumb guy puts $10,000 guitar in $100 case
 
2013-01-07 02:53:00 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Flight case dude... look into them.

Cyno01: And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied.

No he didn't. Apparently you and subby both failed to RTFA...

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland."


Here is the knock out blow:  Delta's own farking "allowable carry on items" page.  Here it is

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/baggage/be for e-your-trip/special-items.html

Click on the Musical Instruments tab and then look at what Instruments Can I Carry On?

Here is the text:

What Instruments Can I Carry On?

Guitars and other smaller musical instruments, such as violins, will be accepted as your free carry-on baggage item on Delta and Delta Connection® carriers flights¹. These items must easily fit in the overhead bin or other approved storage location in the cabin, based on available space at the time of boarding. Musical instruments may be gate claimed at the discretion of the passenger and as a result of limited overhead space.

/Google is your friend
 
2013-01-07 02:53:34 AM  

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


Yes, you are the idiot. Also, he wanted to (and DID) obey the rules, and Delta f*cked up, in a rather spectacular fashion.

So the only question is, are you a Delta employee, a baggage handler, or just a run of the mill idiot?
 
2013-01-07 02:53:40 AM  

Bob Falfa: According to the story, he claims to have a $10,000 guitar, and he's asking for $1980?
FTFA:

Schneider, though, says he isn't looking for that kind of fame.

"I'm not a greedy dude," he said. "I'm just looking for $1,980."

Did he misplace a decimal in the value of his instrument?

Also FTFA: The Federal Aviation Administration will permit any instrument that can be safely stored in the overhead compartment or underneath a seat to be treated as carry-on luggage.

Would his guitar fit? If so, he should have carried it on.


He's seeking only enough money to repair the guitar, not the full value.
 
2013-01-07 02:53:58 AM  

RidersOfLohan: dumb guy puts $10,000 guitar in $100 case


THANK YOU!!!!
 
2013-01-07 02:54:16 AM  
I toured for many years, and I always stressed to NOT bring anything with you that you can't afford to have damaged or stolen.
Yes, your '57 Les Paul is very nice, but if we're flying, leave it home and buy a beater that does the job.
I've picked up my share of empty guitar cases from from luggage carousels, and that sinking feeling when you pick up that case, is not good.

I've started building, buying and selling the occasional expensive instrument, and If I sell something over $1200, I charge an extra $150 to cover the cost of a used flight case to ship it in.
Airlines aren't the only bunglers out there.

This, is how that guitar should have been traveling.
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com

encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

Fact is, even just the original Gibson CASE that was destroyed, cost more than any of the proper cases pictured above.
 
2013-01-07 02:54:23 AM  
Of course, having commented a couple times already, I have to mention there are a lot of guitars out there that have been put in more dangerous situations and survived. For example:

www.takamine.com

He still plays with it on tour, and if you think putting it in a low budget movie, particularly in a scene where he chases a guy down the street with it in hand, isn't risking the life of it, you don't know the chaos of making movies!
 
2013-01-07 02:56:01 AM  

SnakeLee: Musical instruments may be gate claimed at the discretion of the passenger and as a result of limited overhead space.


BAM. Delta has that in writing. Hell, they can probably have it checked just if they don't like you, that's how those "may be x if y" statements work in the real world.
 
2013-01-07 02:56:04 AM  

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.
 
2013-01-07 02:57:04 AM  

OptimusHime: Pray 4 Mojo: Flight case dude... look into them.

Cyno01: And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied.

No he didn't. Apparently you and subby both failed to RTFA...

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland."

Insofar as the link he showed the employees was a rule allowing musicians to buy a separate seat for their instrument, I'm going to assume that his implied offer was buying the ticket. It seems more believable than the employees go through the hassle of offering him the chance to buy the ticket right then and there. Of course it could have been the lack of foresight on his part not to buy the ticket ahead of time, and the crunch of travel that made carrying it and just putting it in an available space impossible. Really, to me, both perspectives are conceivable.


"While boarding" is the key. Dude asked to keep his guitar in an 'available space'... then brought out his Iphone and showed the gate agent an article about how this is allowed sometimes by new regs and that a passenger can buy a ticket for an instrument. Doesn't say he asked to buy a ticket... and honestly... the door to the friggin jetway is not the place to handle that.

buying a top quality flight case would be cheaper than ONE ticket. Dude is a f-ing moron. Simple as that.
 
2013-01-07 02:57:38 AM  
Hear that 'metal on metal' sound? That's the sound of schadenfreude, buddy. And it sounds goooood!


/buy a metal case, Hannukah-themed muso
 
2013-01-07 02:58:15 AM  
SnakeLee:

Guitars and other smaller musical instruments, such as violins, will be accepted as your free carry-on baggage item on Delta and Delta Connection® carriers flights¹. These items must easily fit in the overhead bin or other approved storage location in the cabin, based on available space at the time of boarding. Musical instruments may be gate claimed at the discretion of the passenger and as a result of limited overhead space.

/Google is your friend


So if if doesn't fit in the overhead and there's no room in an approved storage location he should CHECK IT. Not the airline's fault if he didn't prepare for that eventuality. If he didn't think to check if the flight was full (and therefore all storage would be full) then he's an idiot.
 
2013-01-07 03:00:54 AM  

divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.


Really? Where does it say that?
 
2013-01-07 03:01:15 AM  

divx88: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.


Gosh, maybe there was a PERSON who wanted that seat and the airline thought that that was more important than his farking guitar.
 
2013-01-07 03:02:44 AM  

Bob Falfa: [derp]


Look, I know that it's normal Fark behaviour to not read TFA before spouting off, but really, you're just making a fool of yourself.
 
2013-01-07 03:02:53 AM  

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

How?


because you either didn't RTFA or are functionally illiterate. Musicians can, and do, buy extra tickets for their instruments on flights to avoid this kind of incident. They even helpfully point that out in the article, and what law allows it. Even for people who have a good insurance policy on the equipment, it doesn't replace that instrument. When this happens to classic pieces, you can't always just go out and buy another one (where, for example, would you go to replace a strad violin?).

As is, this guy needs to let the guitar go. It will never sound the same once repaired.

not so CSB: I had a cello that had been in my family for generations destroyed by an airline when traveling to europe, and while it was fully insured the company chose to repair it instead of replace it because of the rarity/cost. Even then, they would not let me send it to a luthier of my choosing (one recommended by the conductor). I was fortunate enough to be able to use a loaner cello for the rest of my time in europe, a lovely Rocca piece that was part of a collection belonging to one of my host families.

When I got mine back, everyone in the orchestra group gave me condolences. It sounded completely different, and frankly quite horrible. The insurance company and airline combined to completely ruin the sound of centuries old piece of art.

cello case was similar to this style: Link but was a hard shell with better quality padding and restraints inside. When I saw what the case looked like afterward, I was surprised the cello was in as good a shape as it had been.
 
2013-01-07 03:03:50 AM  

UsikFark: SnakeLee: Musical instruments may be gate claimed at the discretion of the passenger and as a result of limited overhead space.

BAM. Delta has that in writing. Hell, they can probably have it checked just if they don't like you, that's how those "may be x if y" statements work in the real world.


I figured out what was really confusing me, though.  They usually hand carry the gate checked luggage and this one said elevator.  So I thought they made him put it as baggage before he even checked to see if there was space.  They clear it up in the Facebook page that the Yahoo article links to:

Mustafa, Dave here. We did gate check. Sadly, in this instance in Detroit, instead of walking up the 2 fragile guitars, they unload the luggage onto a medal shelved carrier and send it up a elevator shaft where we were waiting for our stuff with the rest of the folks. Look at youtube, the clip is up there.
 
2013-01-07 03:05:13 AM  

optikeye: Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.


Not to say the police weren't at fault for some of this...but fark, putting someone with skin color like that in a nice car in a rich neighborhood is dumb.

Not to say the rapist wasn't at fault for some of this...but fark, putting a body like that in a short skirt and tube-top and going to a bar is dumb.
 
2013-01-07 03:06:13 AM  
FTFA:
While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland.

Also, I'm going to board a flight with my vintage chopsticks that I say are worth $5,000. I mean, I don't have any proof of that or any insurance whatsoever, but I said so. That's good, right?
 
2013-01-07 03:06:41 AM  

Fluorescent Testicle: Bob Falfa: [derp]

Look, I know that it's normal Fark behaviour to not read TFA before spouting off, but really, you're just making a fool of yourself.


divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.



Wow... lots of smart farkers in here biatching about dumb farkers that didn't read the article... that didn't read the article.

Hint: It doesn't say what you're saying it says.
 
2013-01-07 03:08:15 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?


THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.
 
2013-01-07 03:08:29 AM  

Precision Boobery: optikeye: Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.

Not to say the police weren't at fault for some of this...but fark, putting someone with skin color like that in a nice car in a rich neighborhood is dumb.

Not to say the rapist wasn't at fault for some of this...but fark, putting a body like that in a short skirt and tube-top and going to a bar is dumb.


Really? That's where you want to take this?
 
2013-01-07 03:08:31 AM  
When I have things that are worth $10,000, this is how I ship them:
l.yimg.com

Anything $100,000 and up goes in cardboard.
 
2013-01-07 03:08:55 AM  

Precision Boobery: optikeye: Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.

Not to say the police weren't at fault for some of this...but fark, putting someone with skin color like that in a nice car in a rich neighborhood is dumb.

Not to say the rapist wasn't at fault for some of this...but fark, putting a body like that in a short skirt and tube-top and going to a bar is dumb.


Man, what a great opportunity that was to Godwin this thread.
 
2013-01-07 03:11:39 AM  

Soupysales: When I have things that are worth $10,000, this is how I ship them:
[l.yimg.com image 630x420]

Anything $100,000 and up goes in cardboard.


Yeah, the corrugated cardboard case with the velour lining is the only way to go. Also, make sure it doesn't lock or anything.
 
2013-01-07 03:13:13 AM  
My old man left me an es-125 archtop. It is one of my first memories. I know it's not worth a bundle, but I would be very pissed if something happened to it.

los-angeles-guitar-shop.com

I just wish I could play better. ~sigh~
 
2013-01-07 03:14:50 AM  

msupf: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

How?

because you either didn't RTFA or are functionally illiterate. Musicians can, and do, buy extra tickets for their instruments on flights to avoid this kind of incident. They even helpfully point that out in the article, and what law allows it.


What happened to you sucks.
At no point does the article say that he offered to buy a ticket.
 
2013-01-07 03:16:38 AM  

Bob Falfa: FTFA:
While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland.

Also, I'm going to board a flight with my vintage chopsticks that I say are worth $5,000. I mean, I don't have any proof of that or any insurance whatsoever, but I said so. That's good, right?


Link
 
2013-01-07 03:16:52 AM  
I'm curious to know if anybody thinks there is any guitar case in existence that would withstand this particular punishment. I have looked at a lot of "indestructible" travel cases over the years and I don't think any of them would cut it in this instance.
img203.imageshack.us
What you are looking at is a hydraulic cargo elevator. Even the strongest travel case would be crushed by this thing.
According to the article The case even bent a steel beam.
 
2013-01-07 03:16:58 AM  

Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.


you really are not bright, i dont care what score you got on some intelligence test


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
 
2013-01-07 03:18:06 AM  
It's worth $10,000 now that you have crushed it.
 
2013-01-07 03:18:28 AM  
If you can't drop an even bigger and heavier piece of luggage on it from a fair distance up, then it's not strong enough for what they are going to do to it. That's what they are going to do to it.

I'd trust FedEx more than I trust those baggage monkeys, at least FedEx doesn't make a policy of throwing your package in a big bag with all the other packages every time.
 
2013-01-07 03:18:35 AM  

Bob Falfa: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

I've seen airlines turn those nearly indestructible cases into Swiss cheese before. A good friend of mine's cello was mangled and destroyed that way. As far as I can tell airlines go out of their way to smash instruments. I managed to get lucky the one time I flew with my viola and there was a policy at the time that they could store it in a closet as carry on and not checked.

My friend was not so lucky and lost a horn on that same flight.

/after looking at the case for that horn they had to have purposefully gone out of their way to smash it
//flattened and chunks taken out

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
Guess you have to obey the rules and check bags that don't fit into overhead bins like the rest of us mortals. Boo farking hoo.
Seems like somebody could make a fortune make really, really good instrument cases.


If you could use your stupidity to power things you could make a fortune.

Bob Falfa: Cyno01: Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.

If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off like you have absolutely zero reading comprehension, why dont you take the rest of the evening to reflect and come back and try again fresh tomorrow.

Not trolling, Just sick and tired of people who take up the entire overhead bin with their crap. I'm quite tall and therefore cannot put my bag under the seat in front of me. This is also why I don't fly coach.
As I said, my BIL makes his living playing his trombone all over the world. Number of horns he's had wrecked by airlines? Zero.


He tried to buy a ticket for it you farking intellectual rape victim.
 
2013-01-07 03:18:50 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: My old man left me an es-125 archtop. It is one of my first memories. I know it's not worth a bundle, but I would be very pissed if something happened to it.

[los-angeles-guitar-shop.com image 800x602]

I just wish I could play better. ~sigh~


Beautiful, and a hell of a lot more attainable for most of us hacks, treasure it.
 
2013-01-07 03:19:30 AM  

Precision Boobery: optikeye: Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.

Not to say the police weren't at fault for some of this...but fark, putting someone with skin color like that in a nice car in a rich neighborhood is dumb.

Not to say the rapist wasn't at fault for some of this...but fark, putting a body like that in a short skirt and tube-top and going to a bar is dumb.


Sorry, but can you not?
 
2013-01-07 03:21:18 AM  

Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


Actually, he thought the rules should apply. Specifically, the one that lets musicians buy a seat for their instrument.
 
2013-01-07 03:21:33 AM  

alienated: Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.

you really are not bright, i dont care what score you got on some intelligence test


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.


At no point does it state that he offered to buy a seat. He merely points out that he is allowed to buy a seat.
 
2013-01-07 03:22:00 AM  

alienated: Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.

you really are not bright, i dont care what score you got on some intelligence test


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.


Do we know why he was denied? Perhaps the flight was full? Perhaps he was trying to buy a ticket at the farking gate? Were they supposed to hold the flight for him because he didn't plan ahead?

It's hard to have sympathy for someone who is too cheap to buy a travel case, and too cheap to buy a ticket for his expensive guitar in the first place. Seriously, if the guitar is that valuable why didn't he buy a ticket for it?
 
2013-01-07 03:22:56 AM  

optikeye: Why in the fark did he use a soft case for a valuable instrument for air travel?

He could have avoid all this by having a simple hard case to transport the thing.
Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.


Actually, it IS a hard case. It's just not road worthy hard.
The case he had it in, could survive falling down a flight of stairs with no problem.
 
2013-01-07 03:23:21 AM  

doglover: Ghastly: Bought a Harmonium when I was in India.

Airline still managed to smash it

That blows.


Well, it bellows.
 
2013-01-07 03:23:33 AM  
Eh, well, the kind of idiot that would transport a $10k guitar in a gig bag is the kind of idiot that would pay $10k for a guitar. Still sucks for the guy, though.
 
2013-01-07 03:23:36 AM  

Tigger: Bob Falfa: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

I've seen airlines turn those nearly indestructible cases into Swiss cheese before. A good friend of mine's cello was mangled and destroyed that way. As far as I can tell airlines go out of their way to smash instruments. I managed to get lucky the one time I flew with my viola and there was a policy at the time that they could store it in a closet as carry on and not checked.

My friend was not so lucky and lost a horn on that same flight.

/after looking at the case for that horn they had to have purposefully gone out of their way to smash it
//flattened and chunks taken out

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
Guess you have to obey the rules and check bags that don't fit into overhead bins like the rest of us mortals. Boo farking hoo.
Seems like somebody could make a fortune make really, really good instrument cases.

If you could use your stupidity to power things you could make a fortune.Bob Falfa: Cyno01: Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.

If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off li ...


HE NEVER OFFERED TO BUY A TICKET, JACKHOLE. CHECK THE farkING ARTICLE.
 
2013-01-07 03:24:59 AM  

alienated: Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.

you really are not bright, i dont care what score you got on some intelligence test


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied.


Nope.

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland.

"I've always carried it on," Schneider, who also tours as the lead singer of the hockey-themed rock group the Zambonis, told Yahoo News. "Never been a problem before."

Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.

But he was denied."

You've been trolled by a Yahoo writer... and I'm the "not bright" one huh?. He asked to take the guitar on as a checked bag... and showed them a story about the FAA Reform Act that musicians can buy tickets for their instruments. Doesn't say he offered to buy a ticket... not even close.
 
2013-01-07 03:25:40 AM  

Tigger: Bob Falfa: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

I've seen airlines turn those nearly indestructible cases into Swiss cheese before. A good friend of mine's cello was mangled and destroyed that way. As far as I can tell airlines go out of their way to smash instruments. I managed to get lucky the one time I flew with my viola and there was a policy at the time that they could store it in a closet as carry on and not checked.

My friend was not so lucky and lost a horn on that same flight.

/after looking at the case for that horn they had to have purposefully gone out of their way to smash it
//flattened and chunks taken out

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
Guess you have to obey the rules and check bags that don't fit into overhead bins like the rest of us mortals. Boo farking hoo.
Seems like somebody could make a fortune make really, really good instrument cases.

If you could use your stupidity to power things you could make a fortune.Bob Falfa: Cyno01: Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.

If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off li ...


Some people just want to sh*t on the thread repeatedly while everyone else points out the obvious -- he or she is trying to get a reaction out of you and it's working.

Ignore or put them on ignore. If the Weeners is as brain dead and obviously wrong, then just let it go.
 
2013-01-07 03:25:51 AM  

Bob Falfa: alienated: Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.

you really are not bright, i dont care what score you got on some intelligence test


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.

At no point does it state that he offered to buy a seat. He merely points out that he is allowed to buy a seat.


See, on that I agree. We don't know what the seat availability was or whether or not he specifically offered to buy a seat. We just know that he showed the rules and that, by testimonial, they said "No." at the end of that conversation. So whether he actually offered to pay money for a seat right then and there, or whether he wasn't even offered the chance, is unknown.

Where everyone here treats those as known elements, one way or the other, in order to cast judgement on the situation... that's where I have more of a problem. But I'm not the opinion police...
 
2013-01-07 03:26:57 AM  
Man, what a surprise. Some loser with a neck wattle full of stupid has taken over a thread on Fark.
 
2013-01-07 03:27:31 AM  
1965 Gibson ES-335? Sure, you may feel it's worth $10,000.00, but you have to understand my position here. This thing could sell tomorrow, or it could sit in my shop for months. It's really hard to tell in this economy. Tell you what, I'll give you $50.00 -- and I'm not even sure why I'm offering you that much.

/Write him up, Chum
 
2013-01-07 03:29:51 AM  

Tigger: Next time take Greyhound.

If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off li ...


Show me where the article states tat, farkwad.
 
2013-01-07 03:29:54 AM  
Wow, this thread went to sh*t in a hurry. Buncha assholes in here.

Lighten up, people.
 
2013-01-07 03:30:21 AM  
It didn't LOOK Jewish.
 
2013-01-07 03:30:53 AM  

pxlboy: Tigger: Bob Falfa: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

I've seen airlines turn those nearly indestructible cases into Swiss cheese before. A good friend of mine's cello was mangled and destroyed that way. As far as I can tell airlines go out of their way to smash instruments. I managed to get lucky the one time I flew with my viola and there was a policy at the time that they could store it in a closet as carry on and not checked.

My friend was not so lucky and lost a horn on that same flight.

/after looking at the case for that horn they had to have purposefully gone out of their way to smash it
//flattened and chunks taken out

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
Guess you have to obey the rules and check bags that don't fit into overhead bins like the rest of us mortals. Boo farking hoo.
Seems like somebody could make a fortune make really, really good instrument cases.

If you could use your stupidity to power things you could make a fortune.Bob Falfa: Cyno01: Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.

If youre trolling, its not working, youre just comin ...


I find it an amusing study in human stupidity.

I like how, in his head, he is convinced that he alone is right and no one else gets it. He probably thinks of himself as a sort of persecuted genius like Galileo or Copernicus. The only one to see the One True Answer.

Of course a corollary to being this stupid is, of course, that it never occurs to them that the likelihood of them just being a totally pointless farkwit is massively higher.

Brilliantly though, they will literally almost never give up.
 
2013-01-07 03:31:38 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Eh, well, the kind of idiot that would transport a $10k guitar in a gig bag is the kind of idiot that would pay $10k for a guitar. Still sucks for the guy, though.


It looks like an original case. The one my old man had finally bit the dust. The cases themselves are pretty tough. $10k for a guitar player than can afford it is nothing.
 
2013-01-07 03:31:58 AM  

Diarrhea Anne Frank: Man, what a surprise. Some loser with a neck wattle full of stupid has taken over a thread on Fark.


From the jackass with no photo in their profile...........................................
 
2013-01-07 03:32:16 AM  
OptimusHime:

At no point does it state that he offered to buy a seat. He merely points out that he is allowed to buy a seat.

See, on that I agree. We don't know what the seat availability was or whether or not he specifically offered to buy a seat. We just know that he showed the rules and that, by testimonial, they said "No." at the end of that conversation. So whether he actually offered to pay money for a seat right then and there, or whether he wasn't even offered the chance, is unknown.

Where everyone here treats those as known elements, one way or the other, in order to cast judgement on the situation... that's where I have more of a problem. But I'm not the opinion police...


This. And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.
 
2013-01-07 03:32:49 AM  
PS. the hilarious black and white thinking component is always a dead give away. Because these people are relatively low intelligence and low adaptability they take refuge in total adherence to rule based systems.
 
2013-01-07 03:33:25 AM  

BlackMtnMan: It didn't LOOK Jewish.


On the plus side... I bet the guy knows lots of good lawyers.
 
2013-01-07 03:34:03 AM  
Your mom plays an instrument.
champagnemanagement.com
 
2013-01-07 03:35:45 AM  

Runs_With_Scissors_: OptimusHime:

At no point does it state that he offered to buy a seat. He merely points out that he is allowed to buy a seat.

See, on that I agree. We don't know what the seat availability was or whether or not he specifically offered to buy a seat. We just know that he showed the rules and that, by testimonial, they said "No." at the end of that conversation. So whether he actually offered to pay money for a seat right then and there, or whether he wasn't even offered the chance, is unknown.

Where everyone here treats those as known elements, one way or the other, in order to cast judgement on the situation... that's where I have more of a problem. But I'm not the opinion police...

This. And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.


Yeah, on this point I'm thoroughly in agreement, at least from my own perspective. If I had valued an item that highly, I'd go beyond assuming space would just be made for me.

In the end, life is hard. If he hadn't been lulled into an "everything will end up all right" mentality and the employees had been just a bit more aware or consumer friendly, all could have been avoided. Sometimes a string of unlucky moments ends in a pretty shiatty finale for everyone. If that's a new lesson, one has led a blessed life...
 
2013-01-07 03:36:57 AM  

Bob Falfa: Diarrhea Anne Frank: Man, what a surprise. Some loser with a neck wattle full of stupid has taken over a thread on Fark.

From the jackass with no photo in their profile...........................................


Awww, how did you know I was talking about you?
 
2013-01-07 03:37:49 AM  

Bob Falfa: FTFA:
While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland.

Also, I'm going to board a flight with my vintage chopsticks that I say are worth $5,000. I mean, I don't have any proof of that or any insurance whatsoever, but I said so. That's good, right?


Actually it's value is easily verified. They have the carcass, and the serial number to work with.
That guitar is worth more than he stated. 1965 ES335s, generally go for $12k, to $15k.
He said it was only worth $10k.

As to the case, it's not a $100 case. It's the original case, which is worth about $400-$600, which makes him even goofier, because a proper flight case would have cost around $200.

Yes, rare guitars are expensive. If you look on Ebay, you can see just guitar necks, without any guitar body, tuners, pickups, no nothing, going for $4,000.
 
2013-01-07 03:38:27 AM  

Tigger: I find it an amusing study in human stupidity.

I like how, in his head, he is convinced that he alone is right and no one else gets it. He probably thinks of himself as a sort of persecuted genius like Galileo or Copernicus. The only one to see the One True Answer.

Of course a corollary to being this stupid is, of course, that it never occurs to them that the likelihood of them just being a totally pointless farkwit is massively higher.

Brilliantly though, they will literally almost never give up.


That's okay... fun is fun wherever you find it...

Me? I'm enjoying that ya'll have been trolled by a yahoo article... and subby. And that you feel so good about being "right" that your euphoria is driving you to call people names.

Proud of yourself?
 
2013-01-07 03:38:38 AM  
Tigger:
I find it an amusing study in human stupidity.
I like how, in his head, he is convinced that he alone is right and no one else gets it. He probably thinks of himself as a sort of persecuted genius like Galileo or Copernicus. The only one to see the One True Answer.
Of course a corollary to being this stupid is, of course, that it never occurs to them that the likelihood of them just being a totally pointless farkwit is massively higher.
Brilliantly though, they will literally almost never give up.


There are several posters here who agree with Bob Falfa. I may not agree with his style, but it doesn't make him wrong.

I'll say it again:


Do we know why he was denied? Perhaps the flight was full? Perhaps he was trying to buy a ticket at the farking gate? Were they supposed to hold the flight for him because he didn't plan ahead?

It's hard to have sympathy for someone who is too cheap to buy a travel case, and too cheap to buy a ticket for his expensive guitar in the first place. Seriously, if the guitar is that valuable why didn't he buy a ticket for it?
 
2013-01-07 03:39:19 AM  

Runs_With_Scissors_: And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.


Their original flight was diverted due to bad weather. It's all in the article, which you should read.
 
2013-01-07 03:41:01 AM  

red5ish: Runs_With_Scissors_: And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.

Their original flight was diverted due to bad weather. It's all in the article, which you should read.


Still no excuse for not traveling with a proper case.
 
2013-01-07 03:41:20 AM  

Runs_With_Scissors_: Tigger:
I find it an amusing study in human stupidity.
I like how, in his head, he is convinced that he alone is right and no one else gets it. He probably thinks of himself as a sort of persecuted genius like Galileo or Copernicus. The only one to see the One True Answer.
Of course a corollary to being this stupid is, of course, that it never occurs to them that the likelihood of them just being a totally pointless farkwit is massively higher.
Brilliantly though, they will literally almost never give up.

There are several posters here who agree with Bob Falfa. I may not agree with his style, but it doesn't make him wrong.

I'll say it again:


Do we know why he was denied? Perhaps the flight was full? Perhaps he was trying to buy a ticket at the farking gate? Were they supposed to hold the flight for him because he didn't plan ahead?

It's hard to have sympathy for someone who is too cheap to buy a travel case, and too cheap to buy a ticket for his expensive guitar in the first place. Seriously, if the guitar is that valuable why didn't he buy a ticket for it?


It's not the rightness or wrongness.

It's the hilarious gibberish accompanying it.

My favorite part was "buy a case strong enough that it wouldn't be crushed by an elevator".
 
2013-01-07 03:41:27 AM  

OptimusHime: Runs_With_Scissors_: OptimusHime:

At no point does it state that he offered to buy a seat. He merely points out that he is allowed to buy a seat.

See, on that I agree. We don't know what the seat availability was or whether or not he specifically offered to buy a seat. We just know that he showed the rules and that, by testimonial, they said "No." at the end of that conversation. So whether he actually offered to pay money for a seat right then and there, or whether he wasn't even offered the chance, is unknown.

Where everyone here treats those as known elements, one way or the other, in order to cast judgement on the situation... that's where I have more of a problem. But I'm not the opinion police...

This. And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.

Yeah, on this point I'm thoroughly in agreement, at least from my own perspective. If I had valued an item that highly, I'd go beyond assuming space would just be made for me.

In the end, life is hard. If he hadn't been lulled into an "everything will end up all right" mentality and the employees had been just a bit more aware or consumer friendly, all could have been avoided. Sometimes a string of unlucky moments ends in a pretty shiatty finale for everyone. If that's a new lesson, one has led a blessed life...


Hear, hear.
 
2013-01-07 03:41:27 AM  
ITT: Mr. Alfalfa thinks professional musicians don't know how to travel with their musical instruments.
 
2013-01-07 03:43:21 AM  

Bob Falfa: red5ish: Runs_With_Scissors_: And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.

Their original flight was diverted due to bad weather. It's all in the article, which you should read.

Still no excuse for not traveling with a proper case.


What would you call a proper case? And what would it have been able to do against a hydraulic-powered elevator that was mangled by the case that was used in this scenario?
 
2013-01-07 03:44:10 AM  

red5ish: Runs_With_Scissors_: And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.

Their original flight was diverted due to bad weather. It's all in the article, which you should read.


So when did he buy the ticket from Buffalo to Florida? At the jetway in Buffalo? How did he get through security without a ticket?
 
2013-01-07 03:45:51 AM  

red5ish: Runs_With_Scissors_: And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.

Their original flight was diverted due to bad weather. It's all in the article, which you should read.


Which I did. I don't think you understand what I said. He should have purchased a ticket for his guitar for the entire flight. That way, even if a flight is diverted the instrument has a seat. He should have planned ahead. He shouldn't have been so cheap.
 
2013-01-07 03:45:58 AM  

Serious Black: ITT: Mr. Alfalfa thinks professional musicians don't know how to travel with their musical instruments.


Not at all. I have quite a few relatives and friends who make their living as musicians. I don't know a single one who has had an instrument crushed by an airline. They all have their gear shipped ahead and/or invest in proper cases and/or don't travel with $10,000 instruments. Simple as that.
 
2013-01-07 03:46:22 AM  

optikeye: Why in the fark did he use a soft case for a valuable instrument for air travel?

He could have avoid all this by having a simple hard case to transport the thing.
Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.


Dude had a hard case. The case was rugged enough that it bent a STEEL FARKING BEAM in the elevator.

Delta didn't just drop the ball on this one. They dropped it, ran over it, and kicked it in the gutter.
 
2013-01-07 03:46:28 AM  

Runs_With_Scissors_: OptimusHime: Runs_With_Scissors_: OptimusHime:

At no point does it state that he offered to buy a seat. He merely points out that he is allowed to buy a seat.

See, on that I agree. We don't know what the seat availability was or whether or not he specifically offered to buy a seat. We just know that he showed the rules and that, by testimonial, they said "No." at the end of that conversation. So whether he actually offered to pay money for a seat right then and there, or whether he wasn't even offered the chance, is unknown.

Where everyone here treats those as known elements, one way or the other, in order to cast judgement on the situation... that's where I have more of a problem. But I'm not the opinion police...

This. And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.

Yeah, on this point I'm thoroughly in agreement, at least from my own perspective. If I had valued an item that highly, I'd go beyond assuming space would just be made for me.

In the end, life is hard. If he hadn't been lulled into an "everything will end up all right" mentality and the employees had been just a bit more aware or consumer friendly, all could have been avoided. Sometimes a string of unlucky moments ends in a pretty shiatty finale for everyone. If that's a new lesson, one has led a blessed life...

Hear, hear.


I raise a glass to you sir!
 
2013-01-07 03:46:44 AM  

Bob Falfa: red5ish: Runs_With_Scissors_: And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.

Their original flight was diverted due to bad weather. It's all in the article, which you should read.

Still no excuse for not traveling with a proper case.


I don't think there is any case made that would have withstood being crushed by a hydraulic cargo elevator. Those things don't stop until they reach the top and will snap a two by four like a twig.
 
2013-01-07 03:47:14 AM  

Runs_With_Scissors_: red5ish: Runs_With_Scissors_: And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.

Their original flight was diverted due to bad weather. It's all in the article, which you should read.

Which I did. I don't think you understand what I said. He should have purchased a ticket for his guitar for the entire flight. That way, even if a flight is diverted the instrument has a seat. He should have planned ahead. He shouldn't have been so cheap.


As i said before, he has an (allegedly) $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
 
2013-01-07 03:48:25 AM  
The case in question:
www.eddievegas.com
www.eddievegas.com
I mispoke. Those cases don't go for $600.
This one, is being offered at $1500.

It's not a "cheap" case, it's just the WRONG case for the situation.
 
2013-01-07 03:48:26 AM  

red5ish: Bob Falfa: red5ish: Runs_With_Scissors_: And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.

Their original flight was diverted due to bad weather. It's all in the article, which you should read.

Still no excuse for not traveling with a proper case.

I don't think there is any case made that would have withstood being crushed by a hydraulic cargo elevator. Those things don't stop until they reach the top and will snap a two by four like a twig.


Then don't travel with an instrument you can't afford to lose.
 
2013-01-07 03:49:09 AM  

Serious Black: What would you call a proper case? And what would it have been able to do against a hydraulic-powered elevator that was mangled by the case that was used in this scenario?


Odds are good that a "proper" case would not have hung up in the elevator because of its shape and construction... but I play drums... so WTF do I know.
 
2013-01-07 03:49:26 AM  

Tigger: Runs_With_Scissors_: Tigger:
I find it an amusing study in human stupidity.
I like how, in his head, he is convinced that he alone is right and no one else gets it. He probably thinks of himself as a sort of persecuted genius like Galileo or Copernicus. The only one to see the One True Answer.
Of course a corollary to being this stupid is, of course, that it never occurs to them that the likelihood of them just being a totally pointless farkwit is massively higher.
Brilliantly though, they will literally almost never give up.

There are several posters here who agree with Bob Falfa. I may not agree with his style, but it doesn't make him wrong.

I'll say it again:


Do we know why he was denied? Perhaps the flight was full? Perhaps he was trying to buy a ticket at the farking gate? Were they supposed to hold the flight for him because he didn't plan ahead?

It's hard to have sympathy for someone who is too cheap to buy a travel case, and too cheap to buy a ticket for his expensive guitar in the first place. Seriously, if the guitar is that valuable why didn't he buy a ticket for it?

It's not the rightness or wrongness.

It's the hilarious gibberish accompanying it.

My favorite part was "buy a case strong enough that it wouldn't be crushed by an elevator"


I don't think that's what he said. In fact, if the guitar was traveling in a better case it might not slipped between the elevat.or floor and the shaft
 
2013-01-07 03:52:13 AM  

Bob Falfa: Runs_With_Scissors_: red5ish: Runs_With_Scissors_: And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.

Their original flight was diverted due to bad weather. It's all in the article, which you should read.

Which I did. I don't think you understand what I said. He should have purchased a ticket for his guitar for the entire flight. That way, even if a flight is diverted the instrument has a seat. He should have planned ahead. He shouldn't have been so cheap.

As i said before, he has an (allegedly) $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?


My Maribel is worth about $2,500, and I don't have nearly enough money to fly first class everywhere I go.
 
2013-01-07 03:52:39 AM  

digitalrain: optikeye: Why in the fark did he use a soft case for a valuable instrument for air travel?

He could have avoid all this by having a simple hard case to transport the thing.
Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.

Dude had a hard case. The case was rugged enough that it bent a STEEL FARKING BEAM in the elevator.

Delta didn't just drop the ball on this one. They dropped it, ran over it, and kicked it in the gutter.

.
No. He didn't. He was travelling with an original case. Look at the pics upthread of what he should have been transporting his guitar in. In a seat with a ticket for the entire flight.
 
2013-01-07 03:52:56 AM  

TommyymmoT: The case in question:
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
I mispoke. Those cases don't go for $600.
This one, is being offered at $1500.

It's not a "cheap" case, it's just the WRONG case for the situation.


The case for my sunglasses is sturdier than that.
If I had a $10,00 guitar, it would travel in this:
www.drumza.com
Also, I wouldn't travel with something that valuable.
 
2013-01-07 03:54:39 AM  

FormlessOne: Then you missed the point where he asked to buy a ticket, and was denied. From the article:


This is what I'm figuring. He didn't have it in a Pellican type case because that would be too big to fit into an overhead bin. He was being cheap, hoping not to have to buy a seat. Hoping he'd be allowed to put it in the overhead bin. So he used a regular case.

If he carried it in a the sort of large, padded, hard case that could have protected it from that damage, he'd have to buy a seat every single leg of every single flight - expensive!

Airline to blame? Absolutely. Anyone flying with something that fragile should know rule #1 of airline baggage. Never trust the throwers. They can break anything. Why didn't they let him buy a seat? Probably because it was full, probably because the airline serves passengers before cargo. So his best choice of action would have been to wait for a flight that wasn't full, a flight that would have allowed him to store his guitar in the cabin, either in the overhead bin or in a purchased seat.

This probably isn't the first time he's risked his guitar with the throwers, he was playing the odds, he lot.
 
2013-01-07 03:54:41 AM  

digitalrain: optikeye: Why in the fark did he use a soft case for a valuable instrument for air travel?

He could have avoid all this by having a simple hard case to transport the thing.
Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.

Dude had a hard case. The case was rugged enough that it bent a STEEL FARKING BEAM in the elevator.

Delta didn't just drop the ball on this one. They dropped it, ran over it, and kicked it in the gutter.


I don't think anyone here is defending Delta... or saying they shouldn't compensate the guy. That doesn't defend this guys epic stupidity though. And it is truly epic stupidity.
 
2013-01-07 03:55:25 AM  
As an airport employee, I can say with confidence that baggage handlers sling bags around like giant hunks of meat.
 
2013-01-07 03:55:37 AM  

Bob Falfa: TommyymmoT: The case in question:
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
I mispoke. Those cases don't go for $600.
This one, is being offered at $1500.

It's not a "cheap" case, it's just the WRONG case for the situation.

The case for my sunglasses is sturdier than that.
If I had a $10,00 guitar, it would travel in this:
[www.drumza.com image 250x250]
Also, I wouldn't travel with something that valuable.


I posted the same picture earlier in the thread.
The case in your picture (and mine) is currently the preferred case to use, as it has TSA approved locks.
 
2013-01-07 03:56:28 AM  
You know.. I was waiting at the terminal in Charlotte waiting on my connecting flight once and I was watching the little carts dart back and forth between planes with luggage on them and I saw 3-4 pieces of luggage fall off one of the carts and onto the tarmac.. Not one person walking around loading the farking planes stopped the driver and picked up the luggage to make sure it made its flight.. Lazy farkers... Feel sorry for the people that never got their belongings on behalf of someones incompetence..

/Airlines are the devil..
 
2013-01-07 03:56:47 AM  
I've flown around the world with musicians on Armed Forces Entertainment tours overseas. They get a little more leeway with military orders on accommodating gear, but for the life of me cannot place a single touring musician (using air travel) who would travel with something that could not be immediately replaced. The last thing you need is someone running off with your pedalboard filled with $9k of boutique pedals and one-off guitars and have to play a sold out gig and rushing to piece back together your precious tone. Begging for trouble beyond comprehension.
 
2013-01-07 03:57:21 AM  

TommyymmoT: The case in question:
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
I mispoke. Those cases don't go for $600.
This one, is being offered at $1500.

It's not a "cheap" case, it's just the WRONG case for the situation.


Then, I would like to amend my statement: He should have had a proper traveling case. He shouldn't have been cheap and should have purchased a seat for his guitar for all flights.
 
2013-01-07 03:57:55 AM  

Serious Black: Bob Falfa: Runs_With_Scissors_: red5ish: Runs_With_Scissors_: And, as I pointed out, the time to buy a ticket is not when you're standing on the jetway.

Their original flight was diverted due to bad weather. It's all in the article, which you should read.

Which I did. I don't think you understand what I said. He should have purchased a ticket for his guitar for the entire flight. That way, even if a flight is diverted the instrument has a seat. He should have planned ahead. He shouldn't have been so cheap.

As i said before, he has an (allegedly) $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?

My Maribel is worth about $2,500, and I don't have nearly enough money to fly first class everywhere I go.


How the fark is this relevant?
I'll bet when you get to the point in your career that you guitar is worth FOUR TIMES AS MUCH, you'll be able to fly something other than steerage.
Good luck and keep practicing.
 
2013-01-07 03:59:08 AM  

Serious Black: My Maribel is worth about $2,500, and I don't have nearly enough money to fly first class everywhere I go.


Is Maribel a guitar? You leave the "expensive" gear at home.

A $199 Epiphone sounds remarkably similar to a '59 Les Paul in a large venue.
 
2013-01-07 03:59:48 AM  

OptimusHime: Bob Falfa: alienated: Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.

you really are not bright, i dont care what score you got on some intelligence test


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.

At no point does it state that he offered to buy a seat. He merely points out that he is allowed to buy a seat.

See, on that I agree. We don't know what the seat availability was or whether or not he specifically offered to buy a seat. We just know that he showed the rules and that, by testimonial, they said "No." at the end of that conversation. So whether he actually offered to pay money for a seat right then and there, or whether he wasn't even offered the chance, is unknown.

Where everyone here treats those as known elements, one way or the other, in order to cast judgement on the situation... that's where I have more of a problem. But I'm not the opinion police...


By "DENIED", it is likely that's because THE FLIGHT WAS FULL.

Why else would Delta NOT sell him an empty seat? "Hey Delta, I need a seat for my guitar, and money is no object". Delta: "We have a seat, but won't take your money, we'd rather leave it empty"
Said no airline, ever.
So why didn't he buy a second seat when he booked, if this was the plan?

Well, perhaps that rule about allowing it as a carry-on CAUSED the problem. This is a very large carry-on, you must admit. He's allowed to do so, but if there's no space for everyone's carry-ons, people will be forced to check bags. This is surely what happened, he then asked to buy a seat. but the reason they ran out of overhead storage is because the flight was filled and there were no seats to purchase.
 
2013-01-07 04:00:06 AM  
Compensation?
Unless you make special arrangements before time (like preferably carrying your own insurance)  no airline is going to compensate you $10,000 for ANY piece of luggage.
 
2013-01-07 04:00:25 AM  

Bob Falfa: Serious Black: ITT: Mr. Alfalfa thinks professional musicians don't know how to travel with their musical instruments.

Not at all. I have quite a few relatives and friends who make their living as musicians. I don't know a single one who has had an instrument crushed by an airline. They all have their gear shipped ahead and/or invest in proper cases and/or don't travel with $10,000 instruments. Simple as that.


This was a rare and unfortunate event, but I still maintain that he could have been traveling with a Stanley Tool Box and that elevator would have crushed it. The airline screwed up and his instrument was broken. Really you would have a hard time finding a machine better suited to crushing things than a hydraulic cargo elevator. I guess a hydraulic car crusher at a wrecking yard would be better, but the elevator will do the job.
 
2013-01-07 04:00:53 AM  

Runs_With_Scissors_: digitalrain: optikeye: Why in the fark did he use a soft case for a valuable instrument for air travel?

He could have avoid all this by having a simple hard case to transport the thing.
Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.

Dude had a hard case. The case was rugged enough that it bent a STEEL FARKING BEAM in the elevator.

Delta didn't just drop the ball on this one. They dropped it, ran over it, and kicked it in the gutter.
.
No. He didn't. He was travelling with an original case. Look at the pics upthread of what he should have been transporting his guitar in. In a seat with a ticket for the entire flight.


It was a hard case. It just wasn't some high density unobtanium alloy metal case :) Some folks are going on in this thread like he tried to carry it on in a soft vinyl gig bag or something.
 
2013-01-07 04:02:08 AM  

Bob Falfa: Then don't travel with an instrument you can't afford to lose.


That, unfortunately, is the moral to the story. It is a bad story.
 
2013-01-07 04:02:33 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Serious Black: My Maribel is worth about $2,500, and I don't have nearly enough money to fly first class everywhere I go.

Is Maribel a guitar? You leave the "expensive" gear at home.

A $199 Epiphone sounds remarkably similar to a '59 Les Paul in a large venue.


Just read your profile... in your case... you fly with the Crushinator and Maribel stays safely at home.
 
2013-01-07 04:02:47 AM  

red5ish: Bob Falfa: Serious Black: ITT: Mr. Alfalfa thinks professional musicians don't know how to travel with their musical instruments.

Not at all. I have quite a few relatives and friends who make their living as musicians. I don't know a single one who has had an instrument crushed by an airline. They all have their gear shipped ahead and/or invest in proper cases and/or don't travel with $10,000 instruments. Simple as that.

This was a rare and unfortunate event, but I still maintain that he could have been traveling with a Stanley Tool Box and that elevator would have crushed it. The airline screwed up and his instrument was broken. Really you would have a hard time finding a machine better suited to crushing things than a hydraulic cargo elevator. I guess a hydraulic car crusher at a wrecking yard would be better, but the elevator will do the job.


If you can't afford to lose it, don't take it on a commercial flight.
 
2013-01-07 04:03:30 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: digitalrain: optikeye: Why in the fark did he use a soft case for a valuable instrument for air travel?

He could have avoid all this by having a simple hard case to transport the thing.
Not to say the airline wasn't at fault for some of this....but fark, putting something like that in a case that has same protection level of burlap sack is dumb.

Dude had a hard case. The case was rugged enough that it bent a STEEL FARKING BEAM in the elevator.

Delta didn't just drop the ball on this one. They dropped it, ran over it, and kicked it in the gutter.

I don't think anyone here is defending Delta... or saying they shouldn't compensate the guy. That doesn't defend this guys epic stupidity though. And it is truly epic stupidity.


No doubt. There's the hard case that's suitable for road trips to gigs where you know who will be handling your instrument and then there's hard cases that are better suited to airline travel when you don't know who the hell will be handling it or how pissed at the world they will be at the particular moment when they are loading your instrument.

He chose poorly.
 
2013-01-07 04:07:49 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Serious Black: My Maribel is worth about $2,500, and I don't have nearly enough money to fly first class everywhere I go.

Is Maribel a guitar? You leave the "expensive" gear at home.

A $199 Epiphone sounds remarkably similar to a '59 Les Paul in a large venue.


My "cheap" guitar, the Crushinator, is a Squier Strat whose fretboard is so terrible that the strings are automatically out of tune once you pass the fifth fret. I'm pretty sure that would be audible in a large venue.
 
2013-01-07 04:08:38 AM  

Oznog: OptimusHime: Bob Falfa: alienated: Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.

you really are not bright, i dont care what score you got on some intelligence test


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.

At no point does it state that he offered to buy a seat. He merely points out that he is allowed to buy a seat.

See, on that I agree. We don't know what the seat availability was or whether or not he specifically offered to buy a seat. We just know that he showed the rules and that, by testimonial, they said "No." at the end of that conversation. So whether he actually offered to pay money for a seat right then and there, or whether he wasn't even offered the chance, is unknown.

Where everyone here treats those as known elements, one way or the other, in order to cast judgement on the situation... that's where I have more of a problem. But I'm not the opinion police...

By "DENIED", it is likely that's because THE FLIGHT WAS FULL.

Why else would Delta NOT sell him an empty seat? "Hey Delta, I need a seat for my guitar, and money is no object". Delta: "We have a seat, but won't take your money, we'd rather leave it empty"
Said no airline, ever.
So why didn't he buy a second seat when he booked, if this was the plan?

Well, perhaps that rule about allowing it as a carry-on CAUSED the problem. This is a very large carry-on, you must admit. He's allowed to do so, but if there's no space for everyone's carry-ons, people will be forced to check bags. This is surely what happened, h ...


Are you responding to my post specifically? Because I think I'm pretty close to Switzerland on this issue on the neutrality spectrum...

But for the sake of argument: Delta as a company would probably sell him a ticket on the spot. They should have the credit card swipers for drinks enabled to buy tickets as well just in that eventuality. But could I see a flight attendant saying "Sir, no, we're happy to check it, but right now you need to sit down."? Absolutely. Because selling someone a seat on the spot takes time these employees aren't paid for, and the people they work for will fire them for less.

Still, I think you're picking a fight where there isn't one to be offered... I don't disagree with your stance, I just think it's a little hasty of a conclusion.
 
2013-01-07 04:08:40 AM  

red5ish: This was a rare and unfortunate event, but I still maintain that he could have been traveling with a Stanley Tool Box and that elevator would have crushed it


That's 'cause Stanley tool boxes are garbage.

Seriously... it's important to point out that ATA approved cases are not only designed for a certain amount of impact resistance... they are shaped to prevent hang ups and problems in the transport equipment to avoid this kind of thing.
 
2013-01-07 04:11:21 AM  
You know, I'm not going to comment about whether or not this guy should have invested in an indestructable case or not, but I'm going to have to ask:

What's with the idea that we should *expect* that our luggage should risk being destroyed in transit?

Are we saying that letting a bunch of baggage handlers (and the interim mechanical systems) damage our property is a legitimately expected course of action?

Regardless of how we put these items up for travel, isn't the default expectation the one where those personnel charged with handling them are presumed to be accountable for the intact delivery of said items?

Of all of the rhetoric about how this guy should have handled this, why aren't we talking about why it seems to be okay that the normal handling process damages what is being shipped?

Are you really arguing that it's okay for the airline to damage luggage (under any circumstance), and that the onus is always on the traveler to prevent it?
I'm of the opinion that when we pay a provider to ship our items (whether checked or not), it's on them to be held accountable for the delivery of those items.

Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly, but it seems to me that some among the posters here are trying to defend the idea that it's okay for the airline to mishandle our luggage.
 
2013-01-07 04:14:00 AM  

Serious Black: My "cheap" guitar, the Crushinator, is a Squier Strat whose fretboard is so terrible that the strings are automatically out of tune once you pass the fifth fret. I'm pretty sure that would be audible in a large venue.


You could probably get a new neck and bolt it on for around $100. If the Crushinator is even worth the effort, that is.
 
2013-01-07 04:14:36 AM  

Runs_With_Scissors_: TommyymmoT: The case in question:
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
I mispoke. Those cases don't go for $600.
This one, is being offered at $1500.

It's not a "cheap" case, it's just the WRONG case for the situation.

Then, I would like to amend my statement: He should have had a proper traveling case. He shouldn't have been cheap and should have purchased a seat for his guitar for all flights.


Ok, too much beer, but I'm going to semi 'out' myself.
In the early 80s, I was working with some very guitar heavy bands.
I was a guitar tech for Roy Buchanan, Johnny Winter, and others.
MULTIPLE guitars, that are today, worth more than most new cars.

Question:
How many seats should I have bought?
How fired would I have been?
 
2013-01-07 04:14:45 AM  

Serious Black: Pray 4 Mojo: Serious Black: My Maribel is worth about $2,500, and I don't have nearly enough money to fly first class everywhere I go.

Is Maribel a guitar? You leave the "expensive" gear at home.

A $199 Epiphone sounds remarkably similar to a '59 Les Paul in a large venue.

My "cheap" guitar, the Crushinator, is a Squier Strat whose fretboard is so terrible that the strings are automatically out of tune once you pass the fifth fret. I'm pretty sure that would be audible in a large venue.


Yeah... probably. Point taken.

Get a cheaper one then... a decent $1000 American Strat. Back when I was a pup and my band traveled a lot... we all had two (or three) full sets of gear. The "nice enough", road worn gear is what traveled... as it was easily replacable.
 
2013-01-07 04:17:33 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Seriously... it's important to point out that ATA approved cases are not only designed for a certain amount of impact resistance... they are shaped to prevent hang ups and problems in the transport equipment to avoid this kind of thing.


I don't fly with any of my guitars anymore. Used to be able to carry them on and stow them in a closet but no more. If the instruments have to travel they are getting crated and freighted.
 
2013-01-07 04:17:51 AM  

Naked Singularity: You know, I'm not going to comment about whether or not this guy should have invested in an indestructable case or not, but I'm going to have to ask:

What's with the idea that we should *expect* that our luggage should risk being destroyed in transit?


No... we just accept it as a reality. The other option is to ship your luggage, take only a carry on... or not fly.

And judging by the state of the industry... the third seems a popular option.
 
2013-01-07 04:18:45 AM  

Naked Singularity: You know, I'm not going to comment about whether or not this guy should have invested in an indestructable case or not, but I'm going to have to ask:

What's with the idea that we should *expect* that our luggage should risk being destroyed in transit?

Are we saying that letting a bunch of baggage handlers (and the interim mechanical systems) damage our property is a legitimately expected course of action?

Regardless of how we put these items up for travel, isn't the default expectation the one where those personnel charged with handling them are presumed to be accountable for the intact delivery of said items?

Of all of the rhetoric about how this guy should have handled this, why aren't we talking about why it seems to be okay that the normal handling process damages what is being shipped?

Are you really arguing that it's okay for the airline to damage luggage (under any circumstance), and that the onus is always on the traveler to prevent it?
I'm of the opinion that when we pay a provider to ship our items (whether checked or not), it's on them to be held accountable for the delivery of those items.

Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly, but it seems to me that some among the posters here are trying to defend the idea that it's okay for the airline to mishandle our luggage.


In my under-educated opinion, it's not so much that as it is establishing legitimate blame. It's not that it's always on the traveler, so much as the process has a certain amount of assumed risk, and after the damage is done, there are several dozen people that had hands-on activity in the process that are blameless for the one who is actually at fault. So it's hard to determine in a blind blame game on one side or the other who to punish. Unfortunately this does give an imbalance of power to those with the most money and toys, but when has it not? It's the best method we have so far to decide fault, and that it's so imperfect is why "innocent until proven guilty" has become a standard of law.

So it's not okay that luggage is regularly and in some times in large, valuable objects, mishandled. It's just what happens in an imperfect world. Trying to decide empirical fault, be it with the traveler or the company, that's where the shades of grey start. Unfortunately, rarely is there ever a clear and valid solution of "this person/entity destroyed my valuable thing" to determine fault. It's why we still have juries, and why car crashes make such profit for attorneys. It just is.
 
2013-01-07 04:18:48 AM  
i get the feeling that blaming the victim is always de rigeur. one person also has a chip on their shoulder about overhead baggage and as such takes pleasure in hearing about the punishment of this complete strangers property.

this guy should write a song about it like the other guy did. if an airline shows disinterest in respecting their customers property, then it should be shouted from the rooftops that they have shiatty business practices.

i dont care about hearing about the type of cases. a real business would bend over backwards to make sure their customers property is well taken care of. i fly only when no other option exists for that reason, although Southwest is actually decent.
 
2013-01-07 04:21:43 AM  

momentous: i get the feeling that blaming the victim is always de rigeur. one person also has a chip on their shoulder about overhead baggage and as such takes pleasure in hearing about the punishment of this complete strangers property.

this guy should write a song about it like the other guy did. if an airline shows disinterest in respecting their customers property, then it should be shouted from the rooftops that they have shiatty business practices.

i dont care about hearing about the type of cases. a real business would bend over backwards to make sure their customers property is well taken care of. i fly only when no other option exists for that reason, although Southwest is actually decent.


I was with you right up until the end of your post. Southwest is the Wal-Mart of airlines and should be avoided.
 
2013-01-07 04:23:15 AM  

Naked Singularity: You know, I'm not going to comment about whether or not this guy should have invested in an indestructable case or not, but I'm going to have to ask:

What's with the idea that we should *expect* that our luggage should risk being destroyed in transit?

Are we saying that letting a bunch of baggage handlers (and the interim mechanical systems) damage our property is a legitimately expected course of action?

Regardless of how we put these items up for travel, isn't the default expectation the one where those personnel charged with handling them are presumed to be accountable for the intact delivery of said items?

Of all of the rhetoric about how this guy should have handled this, why aren't we talking about why it seems to be okay that the normal handling process damages what is being shipped?

Are you really arguing that it's okay for the airline to damage luggage (under any circumstance), and that the onus is always on the traveler to prevent it?
I'm of the opinion that when we pay a provider to ship our items (whether checked or not), it's on them to be held accountable for the delivery of those items.

Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly, but it seems to me that some among the posters here are trying to defend the idea that it's okay for the airline to mishandle our luggage.


There's the way things are and the way they ought to be. Let's just say that after 4 decades of flying I know what to expect. Millions of bags transported a year, thrown onto and off of carts, into and out of plane bellies, and finally through automated luggage systems. Your luggage will come out dirty, somewhat beaten up (if you're lucky) or damaged (if you're not).

If you want your luggage to get taken better care of ship it via Fed Ex and make sure it's insured. Or, leave it at home.
 
2013-01-07 04:25:29 AM  

red5ish: Serious Black: My "cheap" guitar, the Crushinator, is a Squier Strat whose fretboard is so terrible that the strings are automatically out of tune once you pass the fifth fret. I'm pretty sure that would be audible in a large venue.

You could probably get a new neck and bolt it on for around $100. If the Crushinator is even worth the effort, that is.


I doubt it. He's entirely stock. The neck is the biggest issue, but he has other problems. I mainly keep him because he was my first guitar.

Pray 4 Mojo: Get a cheaper one then... a decent $1000 American Strat. Back when I was a pup and my band traveled a lot... we all had two (or three) full sets of gear. The "nice enough", road worn gear is what traveled... as it was easily replacable.


If music were my day job, I would strongly consider that.
 
2013-01-07 04:26:12 AM  

OptimusHime: Naked Singularity: You know, I'm not going to comment about whether or not this guy should have invested in an indestructable case or not, but I'm going to have to ask:

What's with the idea that we should *expect* that our luggage should risk being destroyed in transit?

Are we saying that letting a bunch of baggage handlers (and the interim mechanical systems) damage our property is a legitimately expected course of action?

Regardless of how we put these items up for travel, isn't the default expectation the one where those personnel charged with handling them are presumed to be accountable for the intact delivery of said items?

Of all of the rhetoric about how this guy should have handled this, why aren't we talking about why it seems to be okay that the normal handling process damages what is being shipped?

Are you really arguing that it's okay for the airline to damage luggage (under any circumstance), and that the onus is always on the traveler to prevent it?
I'm of the opinion that when we pay a provider to ship our items (whether checked or not), it's on them to be held accountable for the delivery of those items.

Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly, but it seems to me that some among the posters here are trying to defend the idea that it's okay for the airline to mishandle our luggage.

In my under-educated opinion, it's not so much that as it is establishing legitimate blame. It's not that it's always on the traveler, so much as the process has a certain amount of assumed risk, and after the damage is done, there are several dozen people that had hands-on activity in the process that are blameless for the one who is actually at fault. So it's hard to determine in a blind blame game on one side or the other who to punish. Unfortunately this does give an imbalance of power to those with the most money and toys, but when has it not? It's the best method we have so far to decide fault, and that it's so imperfect is why "innocent until proven guilty" has b ...


There's always *some* risk, but my point is why are we accepting that as the default, rather than the exception?

There's a legitimate case that can be made for the occasional accident, but why do we accept the case where the damage is common, rather than infrequent?

From my view, the onus is upon the business. They're the one's who are trying to convince us to give them our business. Implicit in that is the idea that they won't 'lose our luggage', etc.

An occasional accident is to be expected (and even then, I expect the carrier to step up to ameliorate the issue). Trying to convince us that bad handling is an occupational hazard is something I'm not willing to concede.
 
2013-01-07 04:28:05 AM  
Some of you guys are spending way too much time bickering in this thread. Just make your amusing or interesting post, and move on to the next story. I really think there should be a 1 or 2 post limit per thread.
 
2013-01-07 04:28:07 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Serious Black: Pray 4 Mojo: Serious Black: My Maribel is worth about $2,500, and I don't have nearly enough money to fly first class everywhere I go.

Is Maribel a guitar? You leave the "expensive" gear at home.

A $199 Epiphone sounds remarkably similar to a '59 Les Paul in a large venue.

My "cheap" guitar, the Crushinator, is a Squier Strat whose fretboard is so terrible that the strings are automatically out of tune once you pass the fifth fret. I'm pretty sure that would be audible in a large venue.

Yeah... probably. Point taken.

Get a cheaper one then... a decent $1000 American Strat. Back when I was a pup and my band traveled a lot... we all had two (or three) full sets of gear. The "nice enough", road worn gear is what traveled... as it was easily replacable.


That's what I said early in the thread.
Stuff gets stolen. ALOT. Hell, entire TRUCKS get stolen.
Entire venues burn to the ground on occasion.

95% of the audience won't notice if you're playing a Gibson, or an Epiphone, which by the way are pretty good.

If you play well enough, they wont care if it says "Firewood", on the headstock.
 
2013-01-07 04:33:11 AM  

justoneznot: Some of you guys are spending way too much time bickering in this thread. Just make your amusing or interesting post, and move on to the next story. I really think there should be a 1 or 2 post limit per thread.


Hush. ADULTS ARE TALKING.
If you're not too busy, look up the word "discourse".
 
2013-01-07 04:33:29 AM  

Runs_With_Scissors_: Naked Singularity: You know, I'm not going to comment about whether or not this guy should have invested in an indestructable case or not, but I'm going to have to ask:

What's with the idea that we should *expect* that our luggage should risk being destroyed in transit?

Are we saying that letting a bunch of baggage handlers (and the interim mechanical systems) damage our property is a legitimately expected course of action?

Regardless of how we put these items up for travel, isn't the default expectation the one where those personnel charged with handling them are presumed to be accountable for the intact delivery of said items?

Of all of the rhetoric about how this guy should have handled this, why aren't we talking about why it seems to be okay that the normal handling process damages what is being shipped?

Are you really arguing that it's okay for the airline to damage luggage (under any circumstance), and that the onus is always on the traveler to prevent it?
I'm of the opinion that when we pay a provider to ship our items (whether checked or not), it's on them to be held accountable for the delivery of those items.

Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly, but it seems to me that some among the posters here are trying to defend the idea that it's okay for the airline to mishandle our luggage.

There's the way things are and the way they ought to be. Let's just say that after 4 decades of flying I know what to expect. Millions of bags transported a year, thrown onto and off of carts, into and out of plane bellies, and finally through automated luggage systems. Your luggage will come out dirty, somewhat beaten up (if you're lucky) or damaged (if you're not).

If you want your luggage to get taken better care of ship it via Fed Ex and make sure it's insured. Or, leave it at home.


So, you're arguing that buying a plane ticket and checking your luggage doesn't constitute a legitimate expectation of proper handling of that luggage?

I don't expect perfection, but what's with your idea that Fed Ex is somehow better at handling luggage than an airline (maybe they are, but that's irrelevant) ? I'm paying the airline to do what they say they'll do, which is to transport me and my luggage from one place to another. Why should I not expect them to deliver on that implicit contract?

And why should I not hold them accountable when they fail to deliver on that implicit contract?

If my luggage is damaged, in transit, due to an action of theirs, do they not bear the responsibility for it?
 
2013-01-07 04:36:00 AM  

TommyymmoT: Runs_With_Scissors_: TommyymmoT: The case in question:
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
I mispoke. Those cases don't go for $600.
This one, is being offered at $1500.

It's not a "cheap" case, it's just the WRONG case for the situation.

Then, I would like to amend my statement: He should have had a proper traveling case. He shouldn't have been cheap and should have purchased a seat for his guitar for all flights.

Ok, too much beer, but I'm going to semi 'out' myself.
In the early 80s, I was working with some very guitar heavy bands.
I was a guitar tech for Roy Buchanan, Johnny Winter, and others.
MULTIPLE guitars, that are today, worth more than most new cars.

Question:
How many seats should I have bought?
How fired would I have been
?



I'm guessing the guitars went on the truck or in the bus. Otherwise, wouldn't it be up to the owner to pay for the cost of transport?

How fired would you have been?  Um... 42?

/csb on who you worked with - really
 
2013-01-07 04:36:32 AM  

TommyymmoT: Stuff gets stolen. ALOT. Hell, entire TRUCKS get stolen.


Some friends of mine were on tour and they'd parked their equipment truck with the back gate up against a wall to keep thieves from getting into the equipment. The thieves cut open the side of the truck.
 
2013-01-07 04:37:43 AM  

TommyymmoT: Entire venues burn to the ground on occasion.


Are you... once bitten twice shy?
 
2013-01-07 04:38:04 AM  
Naked Singularity:
So, you're arguing that buying a plane ticket and checking your luggage doesn't constitute a legitimate expectation of proper handling of that luggage?

Yes, but if you choose to transport you Stradivarius in a cardboard shoebox, don't come crying to me.
Insure it and enjoy it. Otherwise, leave it at home.
 
2013-01-07 04:45:47 AM  
I've never flown anywhere, but I've always heard if you have anything of value, you are better off FedEx/UPS-ing it to yourself than checking it on an airline.
 
2013-01-07 04:48:04 AM  

TommyymmoT: Pray 4 Mojo: Serious Black: Pray 4 Mojo: Serious Black: My Maribel is worth about $2,500, and I don't have nearly enough money to fly first class everywhere I go.

Is Maribel a guitar? You leave the "expensive" gear at home.

A $199 Epiphone sounds remarkably similar to a '59 Les Paul in a large venue.

My "cheap" guitar, the Crushinator, is a Squier Strat whose fretboard is so terrible that the strings are automatically out of tune once you pass the fifth fret. I'm pretty sure that would be audible in a large venue.

Yeah... probably. Point taken.

Get a cheaper one then... a decent $1000 American Strat. Back when I was a pup and my band traveled a lot... we all had two (or three) full sets of gear. The "nice enough", road worn gear is what traveled... as it was easily replacable.

That's what I said early in the thread.
Stuff gets stolen. ALOT. Hell, entire TRUCKS get stolen.
Entire venues burn to the ground on occasion.

95% of the audience won't notice if you're playing a Gibson, or an Epiphone, which by the way are pretty good.

If you play well enough, they wont care if it says "Firewood", on the headstock.


You reminded me of something that happened back in the late 80s in Denver. The guitar shop in town for custom work and repair burned to the ground. Nothing but sizzling embers. Not only were  the owner's many guitars burnt to a cinder, about half the serious musicians in town lost at least one axe in that conflagration.

Sad, sad.

/csb
 
2013-01-07 04:48:24 AM  
Bob Falfa:

If you can't afford to lose it, don't take it on a commercial flight.

Everything else aside, this is officially the dumbest comment in the thread.

Not only is it a whopper of a logical fallacy statement, but if you bother to take it to a logical conclusion: nothing (or very nearly so) is worth flying with or for, unless you are a self loathing person who does not value even your own life, since you must be absolutely willing to lose/forfeit said mortal coil in order to fly.

Then again, with air travel being what it is these days...
*rimshot*
 
2013-01-07 04:52:35 AM  

SnakeLee: Pray 4 Mojo: Flight case dude... look into them.

Cyno01: And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied.

No he didn't. Apparently you and subby both failed to RTFA...

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland."

Here is the knock out blow:  Delta's own farking "allowable carry on items" page.  Here it is

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/baggage/be for e-your-trip/special-items.html

Click on the Musical Instruments tab and then look at what Instruments Can I Carry On?

Here is the text:

What Instruments Can I Carry On?

Guitars and other smaller musical instruments, such as violins, will be accepted as your free carry-on baggage item on Delta and Delta Connection® carriers flights¹. These items must easily fit in the overhead bin or other approved storage location in the cabin, based on available space at the time of boarding. Musical instruments may be gate claimed at the discretion of the passenger and as a result of limited overhead space.

/Google is your friend


Was there available overhead space? I didn't rtfa.

Also if it is something that valuable, why not ship it and have it insured?
 
2013-01-07 04:53:06 AM  

Bob Falfa: Naked Singularity:
So, you're arguing that buying a plane ticket and checking your luggage doesn't constitute a legitimate expectation of proper handling of that luggage?

Yes, but if you choose to transport you Stradivarius in a cardboard shoebox, don't come crying to me.
Insure it and enjoy it. Otherwise, leave it at home.


I'm not the one shipping in cardboard.

So, you're saying that if I'm paying for my luggage to be transferred from point A to point B, I'm the one responsible if the shipper farks up the delivery, regardless of how well I packaged the shipment?

Incidents happen, I accept that (goes with the territory). But those kind of incidents should be the exception, not the rule. I'm struggling here to grasp the idea that it's okay for the airline to trample, stomp on, throw, or otherwise abuse the luggage I've checked.

Are you arguing that it should not only be expected, but treated as normal activity, for my (or your) luggage to be delivered to me in a damaged state?

Are you saying that the baggage handlers are, without exception, a bunch of gorillas with anger management issues, who cannot handle checked baggage without damaging it?

See, this is a matter of what we would call 'normal expectation.' We're paying an airline to move our baggage from point A to point B. The default expectation (of anyone with a brain) is that the baggage will be delivered in the same condition it was checked.

I'm trying to figure out why you think this is such a problem.

Are you one of those baggage handlers who like to destroy luggage?

Why are you (and so many others) so determined to believe that an airline farking up the baggage is the default state of events?

And why are you so willing to forgive them for it?

I accept accidents and unusual circumstances. I don't accept the idea that the controlling authority (in this case, the airline) should be let off the hook for those accidents.
 
2013-01-07 04:55:04 AM  

Runs_With_Scissors_: The guitar shop in town for custom work and repair burned to the ground. Nothing but sizzling embers. Not only were  the owner's many guitars burnt to a cinder, about half the serious musicians in town lost at least one axe in that conflagration.


In 2010 Nashville had a little flood.
 
2013-01-07 04:56:32 AM  

msupf: Bob Falfa:

If you can't afford to lose it, don't take it on a commercial flight.

Everything else aside, this is officially the dumbest comment in the thread.

Not only is it a whopper of a logical fallacy statement, but if you bother to take it to a logical conclusion: nothing (or very nearly so) is worth flying with or for, unless you are a self loathing person who does not value even your own life, since you must be absolutely willing to lose/forfeit said mortal coil in order to fly.

Then again, with air travel being what it is these days...
*rimshot*


Why?

the comment isn't about personal safety... it's about baggage handlers and airlines destroying your stuff.

and yes... they will destroy your stuff. don't want it destroyed, don't fly with it.
 
2013-01-07 05:01:24 AM  

Naked Singularity: I'm struggling here to grasp the idea that it's okay for the airline to trample, stomp on, throw, or otherwise abuse the luggage I've checked.


www.americantourister.ca

And yes... ATA approvals/ratings for luggage and cases (for instruments, golf clubs, fishing rods, snowboards, etc) exist because the abuse of the baggage is to be expected.
 
2013-01-07 05:09:25 AM  

TommyymmoT:

If you play well enough, they wont care if it says "Firewood", on the headstock.


and that right there is the truth. i like the zambonis, but you dont need a 65 gibson to get that sound. flying with a 50 year old instrument checked in baggage in its original case for a farking hannukah themed band is beyond retarded.
 
2013-01-07 05:09:38 AM  

red5ish: Runs_With_Scissors_: The guitar shop in town for custom work and repair burned to the ground. Nothing but sizzling embers. Not only were  the owner's many guitars burnt to a cinder, about half the serious musicians in town lost at least one axe in that conflagration.

In 2010 Nashville had a little flood.


That was a cultural disaster. Just awful

.Naked Singularity:  Lot's of suppositions...

Are you saying that the baggage handlers are, without exception, a bunch of gorillas with anger management issues, who cannot handle checked baggage without damaging it?


And why are you so willing to forgive them for it?

I accept accidents and unusual circumstances. I don't accept the idea that the controlling authority (in this case, the airline) should be let off the hook for those accidents.


Who said that?

Your question has been answered by numerous people in this thread, myself included.
 
2013-01-07 05:11:45 AM  

TommyymmoT: justoneznot: Some of you guys are spending way too much time bickering in this thread. Just make your amusing or interesting post, and move on to the next story. I really think there should be a 1 or 2 post limit per thread.

Hush. ADULTS ARE TALKING.
If you're not too busy, look up the word "discourse".


There's a few traces of adult discourse in this thread, but that's not what I was referring to. I think the rest of us understood who I'm talking about.
 
2013-01-07 05:14:07 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: I'm struggling here to grasp the idea that it's okay for the airline to trample, stomp on, throw, or otherwise abuse the luggage I've checked.

[www.americantourister.ca image 358x310]

And yes... ATA approvals/ratings for luggage and cases (for instruments, golf clubs, fishing rods, snowboards, etc) exist because the abuse of the baggage is to be expected.


I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

I'm asking why we seem to think it should be the expected response.

We get people saying that FedEx should be the preferred choice for shipping some kind of luggage, rather than expecting the airline to properly handle checked baggage.

Why do you accept that baggage checking for airline travel is axiomatically inferior to FedEx?

What you seem to be saying is that a passenger carrier is worse than a package carrier (and still you give them your business).

I *do* use FedEx (and UPS) where appropriate.

I also fly myself (and my luggage) when I need to.

I don't see any reason to allow the carrier I use to travel to abrogate themselves from responsibility for what they agreed to (that is, to transport me, and my luggage, from point A to point B, in the same condition I started from).

Me, buying a ticket, is an implicit contract. One that the carrier agrees to.

That contract implies that both I and any baggage I check will arrive at the destination, as agreed (and in the same condition as at the start).

If you think its okay for a carrier to damage some guy's guitar, just because it's a hazard of travel, you have to agree that it's okay for you to be delivered in 25 separate pieces, because it's a hazard of travel.
 
2013-01-07 05:22:04 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: msupf: Bob Falfa:

If you can't afford to lose it, don't take it on a commercial flight.

Everything else aside, this is officially the dumbest comment in the thread.

Not only is it a whopper of a logical fallacy statement, but if you bother to take it to a logical conclusion: nothing (or very nearly so) is worth flying with or for, unless you are a self loathing person who does not value even your own life, since you must be absolutely willing to lose/forfeit said mortal coil in order to fly.

Then again, with air travel being what it is these days...
*rimshot*

Why?

the comment isn't about personal safety... it's about baggage handlers and airlines destroying your stuff.

and yes... they will destroy your stuff. don't want it destroyed, don't fly with it.


I'm not even sure that getting an ATA case is a perfect solution. I've heard of ATA cases getting mangled at the contents getting damaged. If the baggage handlers care enough, they can cause some major damage to just about anything, especially if they "screw up" and the case gets caught in a hydraulic elevator.
 
2013-01-07 05:23:58 AM  

Naked Singularity: Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: I'm struggling here to grasp the idea that it's okay for the airline to trample, stomp on, throw, or otherwise abuse the luggage I've checked.

[www.americantourister.ca image 358x310]

And yes... ATA approvals/ratings for luggage and cases (for instruments, golf clubs, fishing rods, snowboards, etc) exist because the abuse of the baggage is to be expected.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

I'm asking why we seem to think it should be the expected response.

We get people saying that FedEx should be the preferred choice for shipping some kind of luggage, rather than expecting the airline to properly handle checked baggage.

Why do you accept that baggage checking for airline travel is axiomatically inferior to FedEx?

What you seem to be saying is that a passenger carrier is worse than a package carrier (and still you give them your business).

I *do* use FedEx (and UPS) where appropriate.

I also fly myself (and my luggage) when I need to.

I don't see any reason to allow the carrier I use to travel to abrogate themselves from responsibility for what they agreed to (that is, to transport me, and my luggage, from point A to point B, in the same condition I started from).

Me, buying a ticket, is an implicit contract. One that the carrier agrees to.

That contract implies that both I and any baggage I check will arrive at the destination, as agreed (and in the same condition as at the start).

If you think its okay for a carrier to damage some guy's guitar, just because it's a hazard of travel, you have to agree that it's okay for you to be delivered in 25 separate pieces, because it's a hazard of travel.


Most likely won't be delivered to my destination in 25 little pieces. If I'm in 25 little pieces I expect to be in a field somewhere.
 
2013-01-07 05:26:57 AM  

Naked Singularity: Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: I'm struggling here to grasp the idea that it's okay for the airline to trample, stomp on, throw, or otherwise abuse the luggage I've checked.

[www.americantourister.ca image 358x310]

And yes... ATA approvals/ratings for luggage and cases (for instruments, golf clubs, fishing rods, snowboards, etc) exist because the abuse of the baggage is to be expected.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen.

I'm asking why we seem to think it should be the expected response.

We get people saying that FedEx should be the preferred choice for shipping some kind of luggage, rather than expecting the airline to properly handle checked baggage.

Why do you accept that baggage checking for airline travel is axiomatically inferior to FedEx?

What you seem to be saying is that a passenger carrier is worse than a package carrier (and still you give them your business).

I *do* use FedEx (and UPS) where appropriate.

I also fly myself (and my luggage) when I need to.

I don't see any reason to allow the carrier I use to travel to abrogate themselves from responsibility for what they agreed to (that is, to transport me, and my luggage, from point A to point B, in the same condition I started from).

Me, buying a ticket, is an implicit contract. One that the carrier agrees to.

That contract implies that both I and any baggage I check will arrive at the destination, as agreed (and in the same condition as at the start).

If you think its okay for a carrier to damage some guy's guitar, just because it's a hazard of travel, you have to agree that it's okay for you to be delivered in 25 separate pieces, because it's a hazard of travel.


Why are you hassling us about this?

If Fed-Ex or UPS were getting your package to it;s destination in a few hours, they would also have the same problems.

I don't accept that it's reasonable for my luggage or it's content to be damaged, but the nature of the speed at which baggage has to get from your hand at check in to your hand after you land means that bags need to move quickly... this means they get thrown into carts... get thrown into the plane... get dropped... fall off conveyors... fall off carts... and so on. An airline is not a shipping company... and should not be treated as such.

Airlines should be liable for damage... but when you check a bag you are assuming a risk.
 
2013-01-07 05:33:04 AM  

Serious Black: I'm not even sure that getting an ATA case is a perfect solution


It's not. Not flying is the perfect solution.

Here's a good test before ya'll check something.

Get whatever it is you want to check... go to the top of a 6' ladder... and drop your check item on the ground.

If you don't want to do that... don't check it.
 
2013-01-07 05:33:42 AM  
There's the way things are and the way they ought to be. Let's just say that after 4 decades of flying I know what to expect. Millions of bags transported a year, thrown onto and off of carts, into and out of plane bellies, and finally through automated luggage systems. Your luggage will come out dirty, somewhat beaten up (if you're lucky) or damaged (if you're not).

If you want your luggage to get taken better care of ship it via Fed Ex and make sure it's insured. Or, leave it at home.


Quoting this, not your inaccurate claim that it has been answered:


This isn't to claim that the useless creatures who have been inadvertantly employed to handle airport baggage have some kind of intrinsic validity.

Here's my question (don't view it in the context of what exists, view it in the context of what *should* exist):

Why are you trying to defend the system that botches the handling of airline baggage?

What do you want? Do you want the goal to be that all airline baggage is handled carefully and delivered to the correct location, or do you want it to be handled badly, and treated like shiat?

You seem to have the viewpoint that it isn't possible to properly handle the airline luggage, and so there's no sense in even trying to do it right.

What's wrong with the idea of having a culture of treating the checked baggage as if it were your own?

What's wrong with the idea of taking pride in your work, and making sure that every package is handled with all due care and that it goes where it should?

What's wrong with the concept that we should reject the idea that it's okay to treat these packages in the worst possible way, and not be held accountable for it?

You're defending the idea that it's okay to slack off and treat what comes past you as some kind of inconvenience.

I'm offering up the idea that it's perfectly acceptable to spend the effort to deliver what is promised (that what is checked is delivered in the same condition as when it was presented).
 
2013-01-07 05:38:23 AM  

OptimusHime: In my under-educated opinion, it's not so much that as it is establishing legitimate blame. It's not that it's always on the traveler, so much as the process has a certain amount of assumed risk, and after the damage is done, there are several dozen people that had hands-on activity in the process that are blameless for the one who is actually at fault. So it's hard to determine in a blind blame game on one side or the other who to punish. Unfortunately this does give an imbalance of power to those with the most money and toys, but when has it not? It's the best method we have so far to decide fault, and that it's so imperfect is why "innocent until proven guilty" has become a standard of law.

So it's not okay that luggage is regularly and in some times in large, valuable objects, mishandled. It's just what happens in an imperfect world. Trying to decide empirical fault, be it with the traveler or the company, that's where the shades of grey start. Unfortunately, rarely is there ever a clear and valid solution of "this person/entity destroyed my valuable thing" to determine fault. It's why we still have juries, and why car crashes make such profit for attorneys. It just is.


To emphasize, in your extremely undereducated opinion. You are an exceptionally stupid person.

If I utilize a business, it's a single entity. One person, ten people, a thousand is irrelevant to the responsibility taken on by the singular business. I'm sure a complex business increases chances of an individual employee problems, but that's not the customer's problem, that's the business's. The challenges of business belong to the business, not the customer.

When dealing with a reasonable handled good (and a 10k guitar is reasonable), the business is responsible for either the good in reasonably similar condition or the full value of the item if no malice was involved in destruction. Malice tacks on criminal penalties. If the customer's preparations are insufficient then it is the business's responsibility to object or there is an implicit acceptance.

If this is a rare occurrence then the cost is of little concern to an airline that burns that much kerosine per hour. If it is a common occurrence then it is imperative to the business to correct their practices.
 
2013-01-07 05:38:41 AM  

red5ish: TommyymmoT: Stuff gets stolen. ALOT. Hell, entire TRUCKS get stolen.

Some friends of mine were on tour and they'd parked their equipment truck with the back gate up against a wall to keep thieves from getting into the equipment. The thieves cut open the side of the truck.


That is what is normally done, but it doesn't prevent somebody with access to a tow truck from taking it.
It happened to the Dixie Dregs, and others.

Runs_With_Scissors_: TommyymmoT: Runs_With_Scissors_: TommyymmoT: The case in question:
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
I mispoke. Those cases don't go for $600.
This one, is being offered at $1500.

It's not a "cheap" case, it's just the WRONG case for the situation.

Then, I would like to amend my statement: He should have had a proper traveling case. He shouldn't have been cheap and should have purchased a seat for his guitar for all flights.

Ok, too much beer, but I'm going to semi 'out' myself.
In the early 80s, I was working with some very guitar heavy bands.
I was a guitar tech for Roy Buchanan, Johnny Winter, and others.
MULTIPLE guitars, that are today, worth more than most new cars.

Question:
How many seats should I have bought?
How fired would I have been?


I'm guessing the guitars went on the truck or in the bus. Otherwise, wouldn't it be up to the owner to pay for the cost of transport?

How fired would you have been?  Um... 42?

/csb on who you worked with - really


Many times, a tour will be part ground, part air. Usually ground.
Quite often, in the middle of of a bus/truck tour, there will be an isolated show, that you (logistically) have to fly to, and you are dependent on people on the other end,  to actually pay attention to, and actually fullfill your equipment rider requirements.
Drummers, will most typically only take their cymbals, sticks, and pedals, hoping that the rental agency on the other end got it right.
Guitar players only take their instruments, and essential FX.
Keyboard players...pray a lot, usually pray for the sweet release of death.

There is a prominent company in NYC called S.I.R.
It stands for "Studio Instrument Rental", however, most people believe it to stand for "Sorry I Rented", or "shiat IN ROADCASES".
I'm damned sure I've repaired more of THEIR  equipment than THEY EVER have.
die, you cocksuckers!
 
2013-01-07 05:40:53 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Why are you hassling us about this?


Why?

Why are you trying to excuse some airline for damaging checked luggage (or similar)?

Why should any airline be exempt from the implied contract to keep intact the item that was checked?

You seem to believe that it should be normal to expect that it's okay for an airline to damage checked baggage, and that we should, for whatever reason, still be held accountable for what they've done.

This isn't about what could happen in some kind of unusual circumstance.

You seem to be trying to argue that it's entirely okay for an airline to damage any checked item, simply because the passenger wasn't willing to sent it FedEx.
 
2013-01-07 05:48:24 AM  

TommyymmoT: There is a prominent company in NYC called S.I.R.
It stands for "Studio Instrument Rental", however, most people believe it to stand for "Sorry I Rented", or "shiat IN ROADCASES".


Ha!!! Awesome.
 
2013-01-07 05:48:33 AM  
he could always ask Santa Claus to bring him a new one. errr... wait...
 
2013-01-07 05:54:31 AM  

Naked Singularity: Pray 4 Mojo: Why are you hassling us about this?

Why?

Why are you trying to excuse some airline for damaging checked luggage (or similar)?

Why should any airline be exempt from the implied contract to keep intact the item that was checked?

You seem to believe that it should be normal to expect that it's okay for an airline to damage checked baggage, and that we should, for whatever reason, still be held accountable for what they've done.

This isn't about what could happen in some kind of unusual circumstance.

You seem to be trying to argue that it's entirely okay for an airline to damage any checked item, simply because the passenger wasn't willing to sent it FedEx.


Agreed.
If you're on the road, do you really want your $10,000 guitar shipped to some motel that you've never been to, and expect that it's going to be there every night, safe and sound?

What if you're doing a few months of one-nighters?
FedEx might be good, but they aren't THAT good.
Besides, who the hell in that situation, has the time to pack, (in my own experience) 3, or 4 guitars every day, and send them out?
 
2013-01-07 05:56:03 AM  

OptimusHime: By "DENIED", it is likely that's because THE FLIGHT WAS FULL.

Why else would Delta NOT sell him an empty seat? "Hey Delta, I need a seat for my guitar, and money is no object". Delta: "We have a seat, but won't take your money, we'd rather leave it empty"
Said no airline, ever.
So why didn't he buy a second seat when he booked, if this was the plan?

Well, perhaps that rule about allowing it as a carry-on CAUSED the problem. This is a very large carry-on, you must admit. He's allowed to do so, but if there's no space for everyone's carry-ons, people will be forced to check bags. This is surely what happened, h ...

Are you responding to my post specifically? Because I think I'm pretty close to Switzerland on this issue on the neutrality spectrum...

But for the sake of argument: Delta as a company would probably sell him a ticket on the spot. They should have the credit card swipers for drinks enabled to buy tickets as well just in that eventuality. But could I see a flight attendant saying "Sir, no, we're happy to check it, but right now you need to sit down."? Absolutely. Because selling someone a seat on the spot takes time these employees aren't paid for, and the people they work for will fire them for less.

Still, I think you're picking a fight where there isn't one to be offered... I don't disagree with your stance, I just think it's a little hasty of a conclusion.


Not responding that specifically. A lot of people kept emphasizing Delta DENIED his request. It seems likely to me that his request was impossible.

I suppose it could also be that the flight attendant found no room for him to carry it on-board, but there WERE unused seats open, but she didn't want to let him strap it in one without a ticket and she was unable to sell him a ticket to put it in a seat.

Seems like if it was that complicated, he would have described it though.
 
2013-01-07 06:00:42 AM  

Naked Singularity: Why?

Why are you trying to excuse some airline for damaging checked luggage (or similar)?


I'm not.

Why should any airline be exempt from the implied contract to keep intact the item that was checked?


They shouldn't.

You seem to believe that it should be normal to expect that it's okay for an airline to damage checked baggage, and that we should, for whatever reason, still be held accountable for what they've done.


I can't help what I seem to be saying.

This isn't about what could happen in some kind of unusual circumstance.


Okay.

You seem to be trying to argue that it's entirely okay for an airline to damage any checked item, simply because the passenger wasn't willing to sent it FedEx.


Again... can't help that.

I already explained that airlines are not shipping companies... and why they are held to a lower standard of service than UPS or FedEx. You can go ahead and keep asking the same question and ignoring my (our) answers if you want... but it's not going to change the answers.

If airlines/airports could spend the time and money to upgrade their system to virtually eliminate baggage damage... they could... but the market has spoken.

customers chose to run through a gauntlet where 1 in every 1000 bags is destroyed... rather than pay more money and spend more time at the airport.
 
2013-01-07 06:03:35 AM  
Late to the thread. I am curious as to why people think he tried to buy a ticket. He states that he asked to use an unused seat, and that he pointed out an article which allows musicians to buy a seat. Nowhere does it state that he tried to buy a seat.
 
2013-01-07 06:03:54 AM  
I can't really say I have a specific opinion about this particular case (though it seems to me that he asked the right questions), but I am going to have to ask:

There seems to be (among some) the idea that we should expect the carrier to treat our property in the worst possible way.

Not in the sense that sometimes things get messed up because of unusual circumstances, but that the very existence of air travel somehow translates to the fact that your property will be vandalized, just because it can be.

And a lot of those who make the above claim will say that you should have used a shipping company (like FedEx, etc.).

Maybe they work for that company.

But here's my take on it:

I'm buying a ticket on an airline (maybe from Dallas to Denver, for example).

I'm checking my suitcase.

I don't think that I'm wrong to expect that both myself and my suitcase make it from Dallas to Denver in the same state as when we started.

That's what I'm paying for.

Who really thinks that there's some value in being an apologist for anyone who thinks it's normal activity to destroy the suitcase in transit?

Why is it that some believe that the default behavior is to damage the suitcase (and that it then becomes the fault of the traveller for not adequately forseeing that this damage would occur)?

Open question:

Why do you believe that it's okay to expect that your property should be damaged, simply because you chose to fly, and not ship your property via FedEx?
 
2013-01-07 06:06:45 AM  

Frederf: OptimusHime: In my under-educated opinion, it's not so much that as it is establishing legitimate blame. It's not that it's always on the traveler, so much as the process has a certain amount of assumed risk, and after the damage is done, there are several dozen people that had hands-on activity in the process that are blameless for the one who is actually at fault. So it's hard to determine in a blind blame game on one side or the other who to punish. Unfortunately this does give an imbalance of power to those with the most money and toys, but when has it not? It's the best method we have so far to decide fault, and that it's so imperfect is why "innocent until proven guilty" has become a standard of law.

So it's not okay that luggage is regularly and in some times in large, valuable objects, mishandled. It's just what happens in an imperfect world. Trying to decide empirical fault, be it with the traveler or the company, that's where the shades of grey start. Unfortunately, rarely is there ever a clear and valid solution of "this person/entity destroyed my valuable thing" to determine fault. It's why we still have juries, and why car crashes make such profit for attorneys. It just is.

To emphasize, in your extremely undereducated opinion. You are an exceptionally stupid person.

If I utilize a business, it's a single entity. One person, ten people, a thousand is irrelevant to the responsibility taken on by the singular business. I'm sure a complex business increases chances of an individual employee problems, but that's not the customer's problem, that's the business's. The challenges of business belong to the business, not the customer.

When dealing with a reasonable handled good (and a 10k guitar is reasonable), the business is responsible for either the good in reasonably similar condition or the full value of the item if no malice was involved in destruction. Malice tacks on criminal penalties. If the customer's preparations are insufficient then it is the ...


I don't know what made you think I was taking a side in this fight, or an unreasonable viewpoint. Yours is plenty valid. I think it's good that customers hold a business for more than they are legally responsible, it's what is needed to narrow the line of legitimate suites between corporate malfeasance and consumer frivolity. I'm just saying, shades of gray. Not taking a side. If you think it's stupid for me to admit that I don't know what actually transpired on the plane and not take your side or the other's, well, I wish you the best, because clearly you aren't interested in taking part in a genuine discourse. You've already lowered yourself to making personal attacks at the start, so I really feel sorry for you that calling me stupid is your opening salvo. I just wanted to take part in a discussion and would like to be proven wrong, since I'm for seeing a beast like an airline corporation taken down a peg or two as much as the next man.
 
2013-01-07 06:09:03 AM  
i471.photobucket.com

...DTW baggage worker in question?
 
2013-01-07 06:10:04 AM  

MycroftHolmes: Late to the thread. I am curious as to why people think he tried to buy a ticket. He states that he asked to use an unused seat, and that he pointed out an article which allows musicians to buy a seat. Nowhere does it state that he tried to buy a seat.


Pfft... shut up you farking dumbass and read the article!!!

Just wanted you to feel the fun from that some of us got from the resident fark geniuses.

As for the actual answer... it's because they were trolled by a relatively clever Yahoo writer who wanted to beef up his story.
 
2013-01-07 06:10:26 AM  

Oznog: OptimusHime: By "DENIED", it is likely that's because THE FLIGHT WAS FULL.

Why else would Delta NOT sell him an empty seat? "Hey Delta, I need a seat for my guitar, and money is no object". Delta: "We have a seat, but won't take your money, we'd rather leave it empty"
Said no airline, ever.
So why didn't he buy a second seat when he booked, if this was the plan?

Well, perhaps that rule about allowing it as a carry-on CAUSED the problem. This is a very large carry-on, you must admit. He's allowed to do so, but if there's no space for everyone's carry-ons, people will be forced to check bags. This is surely what happened, h ...

Are you responding to my post specifically? Because I think I'm pretty close to Switzerland on this issue on the neutrality spectrum...

But for the sake of argument: Delta as a company would probably sell him a ticket on the spot. They should have the credit card swipers for drinks enabled to buy tickets as well just in that eventuality. But could I see a flight attendant saying "Sir, no, we're happy to check it, but right now you need to sit down."? Absolutely. Because selling someone a seat on the spot takes time these employees aren't paid for, and the people they work for will fire them for less.

Still, I think you're picking a fight where there isn't one to be offered... I don't disagree with your stance, I just think it's a little hasty of a conclusion.

Not responding that specifically. A lot of people kept emphasizing Delta DENIED his request. It seems likely to me that his request was impossible.

I suppose it could also be that the flight attendant found no room for him to carry it on-board, but there WERE unused seats open, but she didn't want to let him strap it in one without a ticket and she was unable to sell him a ticket to put it in a seat.

Seems like if it was that complicated, he would have described it though.


I'm really not trying to draw conclusions here. I'm just saying, I don't know what happened and think we're pretty ill equipped to judge the situation, so a lot of people are casting stones on both sides. I know, I know, , etc.
 
2013-01-07 06:11:39 AM  
Sorry, that was supposed to be "I know, I know, [welcometofark.jpg], etc." But clearly I belie my own newness to this game.
 
2013-01-07 06:12:10 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Okay.

You seem to be trying to argue that it's entirely okay for an airline to damage any checked item, simply because the passenger wasn't willing to sent it FedEx.

Again... can't help that.

I already explained that airlines are not shipping companies... and why they are held to a lower standard of service than UPS or FedEx. You can go ahead and keep asking the same question and ignoring my (our) answers if you want... but it's not going to change the answers.

If airlines/airports could spend the time and money to upgrade their system to virtually eliminate baggage damage... they could... but the market has spoken.

customers chose to run through a gauntlet where 1 in every 1000 bags is destroyed... rather than pay more money and spend more time at the airport.


You're assuming that it really requires more effort than they already use in normal activity.

Even FedEx and UPS lose packages in process (they're just held more to that standard than a typical airline).

I'm not arguing that it doesn't happen.

I'm arguing that if I'm paying for me (and now, all too often, for the extra charge for checking my bags), I don't think that it's all that inappropriate for me to expect the airline to give all due diligence to my checked in bags.
 
2013-01-07 06:18:24 AM  

Bob Falfa: Cyno01: Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.

If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off like you have absolutely zero reading comprehension, why dont you take the rest of the evening to reflect and come back and try again fresh tomorrow.

Not trolling, Just sick and tired of people who take up the entire overhead bin with their crap. I'm quite tall and therefore cannot put my bag under the seat in front of me. This is also why I don't fly coach.
As I said, my BIL makes his living playing his trombone all over the world. Number of horns he's had wrecked by airlines? Zero.


Oh, you're tall? Then rent a farking cargo van!
 
2013-01-07 06:25:11 AM  
If only they made hard cases to transport guitars. Damn.
 
2013-01-07 06:31:55 AM  

Naked Singularity: I'm arguing that if I'm paying for me (and now, all too often, for the extra charge for checking my bags), I don't think that it's all that inappropriate for me to expect the airline to give all due diligence to my checked in bags.


There are three kinds of jobs... good, fast and cheap. You get to pick two.

Most airports have a plane landing every minute or so... at a hub, most the passengers are changing planes. Do you expect them to have a guy assigned to carry your bag from your arriving flight to your connecting flight so it arrives safely and on time?

The name of the game is speed... customers demand it. With that speed comes potential risks likes bags being exposed to automated machinery and other perils... like gravity. The airlines also have very little control over the automated systems at the airports... since they don't own, operate or maintain them.

Airlines are (and should be) wholly responsible for the safety of your bag and it's contents while it is in their possession. That's enough for me.
 
2013-01-07 06:40:18 AM  
And United breaks guitars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo
 
2013-01-07 06:50:06 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: customers chose to run through a gauntlet where 1 in every 1000 bags is destroyed... rather than pay more money and spend more time at the airport.


And why are you okay with this?

Though it might reinforce your preconceptions, it's actually (usually) cheaper to ship with a package handler than to travel in person with luggage.

But, here's my thing:

Why do so many have the idea that it's okay for an air carrier to fall back on the excuse that it's okay to fail 1 out of a thousand times?

Why is it wrong for me to expect that, if I buy a ticket, that both I and my luggage reach the destination, and do so in the exact same condition that we started from?

This is what I don't get. Why would a passenger airline be held to a lower standard than a package airline?

Is your new Cuisinart more valuable than a human passenger and her luggage?

And, just to get into the baggage bit, let's argue the package handling.

In principle, how is airline package handling significantly different from the package handling used by FedEx and UPS? It's all automated, for the most part, and there's no meaningful distinction between the two.

If FedEx can process a package accurately and without damage, so can a passenger baggage handling system.

To make a point:

It should *never* be the case that the default condition should be to assume that the process will cause damage.

Passenger or Package, the norm should be that the delivered item is in the same state as the originating item.

The exception to this should be rare (even more rare than winning the lottery).
 
2013-01-07 06:52:21 AM  
"Smoke on the Water" would sound awesome on that guitar!
 
2013-01-07 06:56:56 AM  
Just read through lots of the crap flying back and forth, and from the wording of the article, it is implied he brought up the law about buying an extra seat, ASKED TO BUY A TICKET FOR HIS GUITAR and was denied. If he didn't ask to buy another seat, "he was denied" makes no sense in that context. But that is not for sure. He might not have asked, they might not had any seats available, or he might have asked to buy another seat and was denied even though one was available. Basically we don't know what really happened so arguing is pointless, and everyone is sounding like a jackass.

As for why didn't he just buy a 2nd ticket beforehand? Obviously the best choice, but its not the best business decision to waste $500 every trip if you can almost always just put it in an overhead bin. Maybe he was thinking that because he has been allowed to put it in empty overhead bins without any issues in the past, it would just be a waste of money since if there was a problem he could just buy a seat. Obviously a fully booked flight he had to be on to not miss the gig could be a problem, but the original itinerary might have had time to seek other flights if that was the case.

If the flight wasn't full AND they refused to sell him another ticket, then fark delta. If he didn't ask to buy another seat after bringing up the law he's retarded, or if they denied him because the overhead bins were full AND there were no empty seats to sell him it's on him for not waiting for another flight, but he might not have really had a choice at that point since the gig might have been missed totally if he didn't get on that flight since their travel had gotten so messed up already by that point. Airline should still pay for damages though.

Damn this thread was painful to read, I hate you all. :)
 
2013-01-07 06:57:41 AM  
Late to the show, are we blaming the passenger yet for the airlines screw up?
 
2013-01-07 07:00:48 AM  

Runs_With_Scissors_: alienated: Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.

you really are not bright, i dont care what score you got on some intelligence test


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.
But he was denied.

Do we know why he was denied? Perhaps the flight was full? Perhaps he was trying to buy a ticket at the farking gate? Were they supposed to hold the flight for him because he didn't plan ahead?

It's hard to have sympathy for someone who is too cheap to buy a travel case, and too cheap to buy a ticket for his expensive guitar in the first place. Seriously, if the guitar is that valuable why didn't he buy a ticket for it?


You should have used more ALLCAPS. Maybe slipped in a "this is how libs think" in there for good measure. At this point, you are being out-trolled by Falfa, and he's not really that good.

2.5 / 10
 
2013-01-07 07:01:32 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: I'm arguing that if I'm paying for me (and now, all too often, for the extra charge for checking my bags), I don't think that it's all that inappropriate for me to expect the airline to give all due diligence to my checked in bags.

There are three kinds of jobs... good, fast and cheap. You get to pick two.

Most airports have a plane landing every minute or so... at a hub, most the passengers are changing planes. Do you expect them to have a guy assigned to carry your bag from your arriving flight to your connecting flight so it arrives safely and on time?

The name of the game is speed... customers demand it. With that speed comes potential risks likes bags being exposed to automated machinery and other perils... like gravity. The airlines also have very little control over the automated systems at the airports... since they don't own, operate or maintain them.

Airlines are (and should be) wholly responsible for the safety of your bag and it's contents while it is in their possession. That's enough for me.


Yeah, but we're in the condition where one or the other gets to claim (like it or not) responsibility.

I'm fully familiar with 'fast / cheap / right' (I'm an electrical engineer).

Thing is, in every *legitimate* case, 'right' comes out on top. Fast and / or cheap is a business decision, but only 'right' gets signed off on.

And 'right' means that neither the airline or the airport gets to damage your property (and if they do, they assume the responsibility of fixing it).

And before blaming the passenger (though there can be cause for that), it is entirely up to the business to make the passenger aware of the conditions for risk. Though the article (in this case) is kind of ambiguous regarding what the passenger was willing to do, it is up to the business to clarify the conditions, and regardless, if the airline decided that checking the property was the best choice, it was entirely upon them to make sure they didn't damage it in normal handling.
 
2013-01-07 07:09:25 AM  

redundantman: "Smoke on the Water" would sound awesome on that guitar!


True. If properly done, less thin, more textured.
 
2013-01-07 07:09:33 AM  

Naked Singularity: And, just to get into the baggage bit, let's argue the package handling.

In principle, how is airline package handling significantly different from the package handling used by FedEx and UPS? It's all automated, for the most part, and there's no meaningful distinction between the two.

If FedEx can process a package accurately and without damage, so can a passenger baggage handling system.


Your Fed Ex package doesn't get from San Francisco to Dallas in a couple hours. The package carriers do not have to move nearly as fast as airlines and airports handling baggage.

UPS and FedEx do not load packages into airplanes one at a time like airlines do. They arrive at the airport in pre-packed bins that easily load in the plane using machinery.

99% of packages shipped by package companies are rectangular cardboard boxes. Airlines deal with a myriad of different styles and sizes of bags and cases that have handles, straps, wheels or buckles.

It's not the same.

Also... I work in a business where I deal with a lot of special freight that typically needs to be shipped rapidly. With "non standard" items that do not pack well because of their size or shape... I see damage about 25% of the time. It's part of dealing with an imperfect world.
 
2013-01-07 07:10:43 AM  

Naked Singularity: Pray 4 Mojo: customers chose to run through a gauntlet where 1 in every 1000 bags is destroyed... rather than pay more money and spend more time at the airport.

And why are you okay with this?

Though it might reinforce your preconceptions, it's actually (usually) cheaper to ship with a package handler than to travel in person with luggage.

But, here's my thing:

Why do so many have the idea that it's okay for an air carrier to fall back on the excuse that it's okay to fail 1 out of a thousand times?

Why is it wrong for me to expect that, if I buy a ticket, that both I and my luggage reach the destination, and do so in the exact same condition that we started from?

This is what I don't get. Why would a passenger airline be held to a lower standard than a package airline?

Is your new Cuisinart more valuable than a human passenger and her luggage?

And, just to get into the baggage bit, let's argue the package handling.

In principle, how is airline package handling significantly different from the package handling used by FedEx and UPS? It's all automated, for the most part, and there's no meaningful distinction between the two.

If FedEx can process a package accurately and without damage, so can a passenger baggage handling system.

To make a point:

It should *never* be the case that the default condition should be to assume that the process will cause damage.

Passenger or Package, the norm should be that the delivered item is in the same state as the originating item.

The exception to this should be rare (even more rare than winning the lottery).


As was stated before, FedEx has overnight to get it done, and a passenger flight has hours. People are not ok with waiting around for the baggage people for very long while they're sitting on the plane ready to go. They do the best they can with the time constraints they have (let's just ignore the bad employees who break shiat on purpose for now), and dealing with packages and people in less time is much harder than what FedEx has to do so there will be more bags misplaced or damaged in the haste. More late connections and other logistical challenges too. For a FedEx center, all the planes show up at a hub at night, they unload the planes, sort the packages, reload the planes, and they go back to where they came from. Way simpler than everyone's baggage.
 
2013-01-07 07:13:08 AM  

Naked Singularity: Why are you (and so many others) so determined to believe that an airline farking up the baggage is the default state of events?


Personally, I was going to say it was the frequency of occurrence due to my gear being trashed on numerous occasions. That prompted my curiosity to see if there were any statistics. Found the following nifty links. Problem is, Fark doesn't like them for some reason (probably me or those annoying spaces that appear in the link even after I remove them), but they point to the DOT's list of airport delays and count of "mishandled" luggage:

https://ntl.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/397/~/monthly-airli ne -baggage-loss-and-damage-statistics

From there, click on the first link:

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/reports/index.htm
 
2013-01-07 07:14:31 AM  

probesport: Late to the show, are we blaming the passenger yet for the airlines screw up?


I'm pretty sure we're blaming the airline for their screw up... and blaming the passenger for giving them the opportunity.
 
2013-01-07 07:16:13 AM  

Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).


That explains a lot actually.
 
2013-01-07 07:18:26 AM  
Also FedEx takes all its stuff to a main sorting center that is huge and does nothing by sort packages, where passenger baggage gets sorted on small systems at every airport. Maybe if you were ok with your package not being on the same plane as you, have it go to a sorting center and show up the next day, then you could expect same quality of service as FedEx.
 
2013-01-07 07:18:50 AM  
For working stiff musicians, it's tough to fly - you either have to spring for an ATA-approved flight case (recommended but pricey), or hope you can carry it on. The guys who make the big bucks don't every take their '59 burst on a plane. Everything you see on stage? Replicas set up like their prize "Pearly Gates" guitar. I think Billy Gibbons has probably 5 or 6 all ready to go. That 6-figure irreplaceable guitar? Back home in the studio.
 
2013-01-07 07:20:17 AM  

TommyymmoT: I toured for many years, and I always stressed to NOT bring anything with you that you can't afford to have damaged or stolen.
Yes, your '57 Les Paul is very nice, but if we're flying, leave it home and buy a beater that does the job.
I've picked up my share of empty guitar cases from from luggage carousels, and that sinking feeling when you pick up that case, is not good.

I've started building, buying and selling the occasional expensive instrument, and If I sell something over $1200, I charge an extra $150 to cover the cost of a used flight case to ship it in.
Airlines aren't the only bunglers out there.

This, is how that guitar should have been traveling.
[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 259x194]

[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 316x159]
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 296x170]

Fact is, even just the original Gibson CASE that was destroyed, cost more than any of the proper cases pictured above.


Ding ding ding. What the fark is this guy thinking using that case?
 
2013-01-07 07:31:42 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: My old man left me an es-125 archtop. It is one of my first memories. I know it's not worth a bundle, but I would be very pissed if something happened to it.

[los-angeles-guitar-shop.com image 800x602]

I just wish I could play better. ~sigh~


I was hoping this would turn into Guitar Porn instead of the troll wars on airline handlers and yahoo article writers.

I started playing again a few years back, and amassed a handful of guitars - all mine are sub $500.00 models.
Included are Epiphone PR150, Madeira A12, Gretch Americana (Way Out West), Recording King Senorita, Seagull Encore, Martin DX, Squire Strat, Magnum Backbreaker, Ibenez Artcore, Dot Studio.

I play well enough to amuse myself, and sing worse, hence the smaller investments.
But I love looking at nice guitars as much as anyone else that plays.

Can we now see some more - doesn't anyone else want to brag?
 
2013-01-07 07:32:24 AM  

FormlessOne: Then you missed the point where he asked to buy a ticket, and was denied. From the article:


Most flights are sold out by the time you get to the airport to check your shiat in.  If they had a ticket to sell him, I'm sure they would have.
 
2013-01-07 07:32:45 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).

That explains a lot actually.


A pastor, a doctor and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers. The engineer fumed, "What's with these guys?!" The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but they are SLOW!" The pastor said, "Hey, here comes Marshal. Let's tell him."

"Hi, George. Say, what's with that group ahead of us? They're really slow!" The marshal replied, "Oh, yes, that's a group of blind firefighters who lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime."

The group was silent for a moment. Finally, the pastor said, "That's so sad... I will say a special prayer for them on Sunday."

The doctor said, " I'll contact my ophthalmologist buddy and see if there's anything he can do for them."

The engineer said, "Why can't they farking play at night?"
 
2013-01-07 07:34:58 AM  
Anyone who believes the passenger was not a fool for his lackadaisical attitude towards flying with his instrument is a fool.

Anyone who believes that mean-old-Delta just wouldn't sell him an extra seat because they hate money so much is also a fool.

Anyone who isn't aware that when the overhead bin space is full that they ask passengers with large baggage to check said baggage is, wait for it...a fool.

Anyone who believes that we should just accept the damage done to our belongings in the care of the airlines is also foolish.

Delta owes this guy money for the repair to his guitar. He shouldn't be so foolish in the future.
 
2013-01-07 07:36:34 AM  

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


It is mentioned there's also the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, which he quoted and was denied, where he pays for an extra seat, the airline must comply. Your comment is invalid because the airline refused to follow -this- law. You know who else breaks guitars? United.
 
2013-01-07 07:38:54 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

It is mentioned there's also the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, which he quoted and was denied, where he pays for an extra seat, the airline must comply. Your comment is invalid because the airline refused to follow -this- law. You know who else breaks guitars? United.


When was the last time you've flown around the holidays? I took six separate flights (on Delta) within two weeks around Christmas this year. EVERY flight is full by the time you get to the airport with multiple passengers on standby. What? Should they bump someone to fly his guitar?
 
2013-01-07 07:43:15 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).

That explains a lot actually.


Oh, clever :)

My issue (such as it is), isn't whether a package shipment process is or isn't better than passenger baggage handling (and I can tell you that even the package handling is automated in a fairly similar manner as the baggage handling for passenger flights, it just has some advantage in routing, and a good packing algorithm), it's the idea that it's acceptable for *any* baggage handling to damage the product in any but the most exceptional circumstances.

Maybe this guy should have done things differently (better case, better preparation for travel, and so forth), but there is almost never any legitimate justification for the baggage handling process to *ever* damage an item being handled.

There's two potential scenarios for this kind of thing. Either he gets informed (up front) that he has to package this in a specific manner (or buy a seat for it, which could be implied from the article), or that it is processed in a way that doesn't destroy the package.

There are very few *good* reasons for a package handler to allow the package to be damaged. Unmanaged automation isn't really much of an excuse.
 
2013-01-07 07:43:23 AM  

gulogulo: Anyone who believes the passenger was not a fool for his lackadaisical attitude towards flying with his instrument is a fool.

Anyone who believes that mean-old-Delta just wouldn't sell him an extra seat because they hate money so much is also a fool.

Anyone who isn't aware that when the overhead bin space is full that they ask passengers with large baggage to check said baggage is, wait for it...a fool.

Anyone who believes that we should just accept the damage done to our belongings in the care of the airlines is also foolish.

Delta owes this guy money for the repair to his guitar. He shouldn't be so foolish in the future.


That's some good recapping there Lou.

/I have you farkied
//Dont remember why
///I take bad notes
////We didn't do it did we?
 
2013-01-07 07:45:42 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).

That explains a lot actually.

A pastor, a doctor and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers. The engineer fumed, "What's with these guys?!" The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but they are SLOW!" The pastor said, "Hey, here comes Marshal. Let's tell him."

"Hi, George. Say, what's with that group ahead of us? They're really slow!" The marshal replied, "Oh, yes, that's a group of blind firefighters who lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime."

The group was silent for a moment. Finally, the pastor said, "That's so sad... I will say a special prayer for them on Sunday."

The doctor said, " I'll contact my ophthalmologist buddy and see if there's anything he can do for them."

The engineer said, "Why can't they farking play at night?"


That's a civil engineer :)

An electrical engineer would have set up the lights :o)
 
2013-01-07 07:47:51 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: gulogulo: Anyone who believes the passenger was not a fool for his lackadaisical attitude towards flying with his instrument is a fool.

Anyone who believes that mean-old-Delta just wouldn't sell him an extra seat because they hate money so much is also a fool.

Anyone who isn't aware that when the overhead bin space is full that they ask passengers with large baggage to check said baggage is, wait for it...a fool.

Anyone who believes that we should just accept the damage done to our belongings in the care of the airlines is also foolish.

Delta owes this guy money for the repair to his guitar. He shouldn't be so foolish in the future.

That's some good recapping there Lou.

/I have you farkied
//Dont remember why
///I take bad notes
////We didn't do it did we?


Maybe..or I was being a raving biatch one day. It's hard to tell. I hope it wasn't the latter, but it's seriously possible. We'll say I was wonderful, ok? Hush..don't look back. Never look back.
 
2013-01-07 07:48:14 AM  

Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


I'm sure that Pelican would be happy to make something you could park a truck on and not take any damage for him.

/Loves Pelican cases.
//Too damned expensive, though
 
2013-01-07 07:49:22 AM  

Runs_With_Scissors_: Do we know why he was denied? Perhaps the flight was full? Perhaps he was trying to buy a ticket at the farking gate? Were they supposed to hold the flight for him because he didn't plan ahead?

It's hard to have sympathy for someone who is too cheap to buy a travel case, and too cheap to buy a ticket for his expensive guitar in the first place. Seriously, if the guitar is that valuable why didn't he buy a ticket for it?


This, so goddamned much.
 
2013-01-07 07:54:22 AM  

Naked Singularity: Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).

That explains a lot actually.

Oh, clever :)

My issue (such as it is), isn't whether a package shipment process is or isn't better than passenger baggage handling (and I can tell you that even the package handling is automated in a fairly similar manner as the baggage handling for passenger flights, it just has some advantage in routing, and a good packing algorithm), it's the idea that it's acceptable for *any* baggage handling to damage the product in any but the most exceptional circumstances.

Maybe this guy should have done things differently (better case, better preparation for travel, and so forth), but there is almost never any legitimate justification for the baggage handling process to *ever* damage an item being handled.

There's two potential scenarios for this kind of thing. Either he gets informed (up front) that he has to package this in a specific manner (or buy a seat for it, which could be implied from the article), or that it is processed in a way that doesn't destroy the package.

There are very few *good* reasons for a package handler to allow the package to be damaged. Unmanaged automation isn't really much of an excuse.


You're handing your property to somebody else to take care of for you. It is not reasonable to expect the person/business you are giving it to to care for it like you would because of their limitations of time, resources... etc

There is a minimum level of care that should be taken... disagreements on what that level is are reasonable.

However... any person that hand over an irreplaceable item to somebody else to care for when there are questions about the level of care that will be taken... well... that person is a moron. Total, flaming, glowing, epic moron.
 
2013-01-07 07:59:28 AM  

OptimusHime: Pray 4 Mojo: Flight case dude... look into them.

Cyno01: And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied.

No he didn't. Apparently you and subby both failed to RTFA...

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland."

Insofar as the link he showed the employees was a rule allowing musicians to buy a separate seat for their instrument, I'm going to assume that his implied offer was buying the ticket. It seems more believable than the employees go through the hassle of offering him the chance to buy the ticket right then and there. Of course it could have been the lack of foresight on his part not to buy the ticket ahead of time, and the crunch of travel that made carrying it and just putting it in an available space impossible. Really, to me, both perspectives are conceivable.


His flight was diverted and he missed his connection. It's kind of hard to buy your ticket in advance when this happens!

Did anyone read TFA?
 
2013-01-07 08:02:41 AM  

gulogulo: People_are_Idiots: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

It is mentioned there's also the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, which he quoted and was denied, where he pays for an extra seat, the airline must comply. Your comment is invalid because the airline refused to follow -this- law. You know who else breaks guitars? United.

When was the last time you've flown around the holidays? I took six separate flights (on Delta) within two weeks around Christmas this year. EVERY flight is full by the time you get to the airport with multiple passengers on standby. What? Should they bump someone to fly his guitar?


Didn't say they had to give up a seat for his guitar, but allow it on when he pays for an extra seat. That or yes they could bump him or someone who bought a bump-able seat (which can be done with compensation).
 
2013-01-07 08:04:11 AM  

Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"


The article said the case bent a steel beam. He's an idiot for flying Delta.

/ sorry Drew
 
2013-01-07 08:04:28 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: Pray 4 Mojo: Naked Singularity: (I'm an electrical engineer).

That explains a lot actually.

Oh, clever :)

My issue (such as it is), isn't whether a package shipment process is or isn't better than passenger baggage handling (and I can tell you that even the package handling is automated in a fairly similar manner as the baggage handling for passenger flights, it just has some advantage in routing, and a good packing algorithm), it's the idea that it's acceptable for *any* baggage handling to damage the product in any but the most exceptional circumstances.

Maybe this guy should have done things differently (better case, better preparation for travel, and so forth), but there is almost never any legitimate justification for the baggage handling process to *ever* damage an item being handled.

There's two potential scenarios for this kind of thing. Either he gets informed (up front) that he has to package this in a specific manner (or buy a seat for it, which could be implied from the article), or that it is processed in a way that doesn't destroy the package.

There are very few *good* reasons for a package handler to allow the package to be damaged. Unmanaged automation isn't really much of an excuse.

You're handing your property to somebody else to take care of for you. It is not reasonable to expect the person/business you are giving it to to care for it like you would because of their limitations of time, resources... etc

There is a minimum level of care that should be taken... disagreements on what that level is are reasonable.

However... any person that hand over an irreplaceable item to somebody else to care for when there are questions about the level of care that will be taken... well... that person is a moron. Total, flaming, glowing, epic moron.


I liken this to crossing the street in a crosswalk that has no lights. Sure, you have the right of way. Sure the cars have to stop. And if a car hits you, they will have to face the punishment. But in the mean time you're broken and smeared all over the roadway. You can biatch and moan while choking on your own teeth, but in the end you still got farked up and you will still have to go through the process of getting better. Putting things you care about in someone else's control with complete blind trust is really just asking for trouble. When I fly, I go in expecting something is probably going to go wrong. I anticipate it and try to make every preparation possible for that eventuality (e.g. valuables go in a small carryon that I have on my person at all times and will fit under the seat. I don't travel with expensive things that might have be gate checked, never book a flight with less than 1 hour 15 minutes layover between flights, etc.).
 
2013-01-07 08:05:19 AM  

SnakeLee: The problem though - from experience - is that he flew on Delta.  All the airlines that charge to check luggage completely fill up the overheads every flight.  The trick is to fly on Virign or Jet Blue, because there are always plenty of completely open overheads, even on the cross country flights during the holidays.  I always bring my guitar because it takes forever to get good at it and being away is the best time to put in monster practices, so I am experienced on bringing them.  Fly an airline with a free bag allowance and you should be ok.


I just flew to Amsterdam over the holidays on Delta, and got one bag checked free of additional charge.
 
2013-01-07 08:08:47 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Didn't say they had to give up a seat for his guitar, but allow it on when he pays for an extra seat. That or yes they could bump him or someone who bought a bump-able seat (which can be done with compensation).


They are going to bump a passenger for a guitar?I guarantee you, too, that there were people who already paid for a plane ticket and were waiting on stanby. They would have preference over his guitar, and the airline has every right to make that call. And why do you think they have the 'buy another seat' requirement' if not so he can put it in the seat.
 
2013-01-07 08:10:06 AM  

Flab: Did anyone read TFA?


I did!

If the airline was honoring his ticket to get him to his destination... he would have already had the ticket (had he bought one like he should have).

If he booked the flight and paid for it after landing in Rochester (see, i did read it)... he could have bought a ticket then.

If the flight from buffalo was fully booked and didn't have a seat for his guitar... well... too late to do anything since he left home with the guitar in it's lightweight, non ATA approved case. Rolling the dice at that point.
 
2013-01-07 08:18:32 AM  

gulogulo: ////We didn't do it did we?

Maybe..or I was being a raving biatch one day. It's hard to tell. I hope it wasn't the latter, but it's seriously possible. We'll say I was wonderful, ok? Hush..don't look back. Never look back.


Strange... I don't recall putting a photo on my profile.

I'll hafta make an actual note I guess.
 
2013-01-07 08:20:17 AM  

People_are_Idiots: It is mentioned there's also the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, which he quoted and was denied, where he pays for an extra seat, the airline must comply. Your comment is invalid because the airline refused to follow -this- law.


Clearly you don't fly very often.  Probably 7 out of 10 domestic flights have people on standby denied tickets.  Probably 20% of the time, there are people with paid tickets getting bumped from the flight.  Further, if there are enough passengers to fill the overhead space I can guarantee that the flight had no available seats.

Yes, they must sell him a ticket, but only if they have tickets available, and they can't bump passengers for it.
 
2013-01-07 08:35:59 AM  
When a guitarist and singer for a Hanukkah-themed rock band can afford a a 1965 Gibson ES-335, then I no longer believe in the starving artist myth
 
2013-01-07 08:53:11 AM  
Two things I learned in this thread:

1) Don't bring an instrument into an airport under any circumstances.
2) Bob Falfa was beat up by a gang of musicians when he was a kid.
 
2013-01-07 09:05:14 AM  

Naked Singularity: Me, buying a ticket, is an implicit contract. One that the carrier agrees to.


Shut up. You don't know what the fark you're talking about.

You buying a ticket makes you party to an EXPRESSLY WRITTEN contract... the Contract of Carriage.

http://www.delta.com/content/dam/delta-www/pdfs/legal/contract_of_car r iage_dom.pdf

Of special interest may be Rule 190 -- Section I-1a on page 38, wherein Delta states their maximum liability for any one piece of checked baggage will be $3,300 unless the passenger elects to purchase "excess valuation" coverage for up to $5,000 of value. By checking baggage on the airline, you represent to the airline that your checked baggage is a) easily replaceable, b) reasonably and properly packed, and c) not valued over $5,000, because Delta refuses to carry precious and highly valuable items in checked baggage (see Rule 190 -- Section F for the complete list).

So, regardless of how you THINK airline baggage OUGHT to work... it doesn't matter. You buying a ticket means effectively that you've signed an agreement stating your baggage is worth $3,300 or less. If you don't like it -- find someone else to carry it.
 
2013-01-07 09:07:16 AM  
I'm very confused here. Most of you are defending this guy, who apparently makes his living playing this guitar, who carries it around in a leather case on commercial airlines. There are truly nearly indestructible cases for instruments made all over the world. AND I could be mistaken there are ways to ship delicate items by special carriers with special handling and yes it costs more. If you are too cheap to buy your kid a seat on the plane, don't be surprised when they do not survive the baggage compartment. Who would want to listen to a jew themed rock band anyway?
 
2013-01-07 09:07:24 AM  
Too much derp in this thread to read.

Guy should have had it professionally packed and shipped rather than try to fly with it in the first place.

The end.
 
2013-01-07 09:17:35 AM  
Hey, non-rich/non-famous musicians.... STOP TRAVELLING WITH YOUR PRICELESS FARKING INSTRUMENTS!! GET A CHEAPY AND HAVE IT PROFESSIONALLY SETUP. YOU'LL BE FINE!!!
 
2013-01-07 09:24:14 AM  

red5ish: I'm curious to know if anybody thinks there is any guitar case in existence that would withstand this particular punishment. I have looked at a lot of "indestructible" travel cases over the years and I don't think any of them would cut it in this instance.
[img203.imageshack.us image 630x420]
What you are looking at is a hydraulic cargo elevator. Even the strongest travel case would be crushed by this thing.
According to the article The case even bent a steel beam.


Elevator do your worst!
ecx.images-amazon.com
Yes, they appear to make them in instrument sizes. If it's good enough for the nuclear football, it's good enough for a classic instrument.
 
2013-01-07 09:24:44 AM  

gulogulo: Anyone who believes the passenger was not a fool for his lackadaisical attitude towards flying with his instrument is a fool.

Anyone who believes that mean-old-Delta just wouldn't sell him an extra seat because they hate money so much is also a fool.

Anyone who isn't aware that when the overhead bin space is full that they ask passengers with large baggage to check said baggage is, wait for it...a fool.

Anyone who believes that we should just accept the damage done to our belongings in the care of the airlines is also foolish.

Delta owes this guy money for the repair to his guitar. He shouldn't be so foolish in the future.


I'm detecting large quantities of logic and understanding in this post. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to ask you to leave this thread.

Do it again, and we kick you off of Fark for good.

/Back to the Herpaderp
 
2013-01-07 09:32:37 AM  
as a musician about to pay his annual music instrument insurance premium, i'm getting a kick out of this, etc.
 
2013-01-07 09:35:16 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Flight case dude... look into them.

Cyno01: And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied.

No he didn't. Apparently you and subby both failed to RTFA...

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland."


This, people raging w/o rtfa are plain stupid
 
2013-01-07 09:36:24 AM  
well if he actually tried to purchase an additional seat all legit and then they denied him and wrecked it? (a lot of if's there), then I say Delta is FU'ed and owes the dude about 20k.
 
2013-01-07 09:37:11 AM  

Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.


But it is federal law now that they have to let you carry on.
 
2013-01-07 09:37:30 AM  

utah dude: well if he actually tried to purchase an additional seat all legit and then they denied him and wrecked it? (a lot of if's there), then I say Delta is FU'ed and owes the dude about 20k.


else? dude is FU'ed. thank you for flying the skybus.
 
2013-01-07 09:37:36 AM  
Ow My Balls: [i471.photobucket.com image 600x788]

...DTW baggage worker in question?


+1 internets for you sir
 
2013-01-07 09:40:10 AM  

NeoBad: I'm very confused here. Most of you are defending this guy, who apparently makes his living playing this guitar, who carries it around in a leather case on commercial airlines.


Pretty much this. If this guitar was that valuable then the onus is on him to put it in a case that will protect it.
 
2013-01-07 09:47:15 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I have a German violin (I won't name the maker here), that I would not trust to anybody. Mostly because I can't afford the insurance policy on it. I checked with Allstate, and they said they wouldn't insure it, then I checked Lloyds of London for shiats and giggles. HOLY CRAP! It would cost more than my car. That fiddle sits next to me everywhere I travel. I don't trust people, and I don't let other people touch it. That fiddle was a gift from a master Luthier. If you try to pull that fiddle out of my hands, I'll sock you in the mouth, while holding on to the case. That fiddle is my baby. I have a crappy Brazilian bow, but that violin is worth a lot of money.


I'm guessing Kloz or Stainer?
 
2013-01-07 09:47:51 AM  
Use a bullet proof case.
Insure the shait out of it and the contents.
Then, if anything happens, you have the backing of everyone when you get paid for someone's stupidity. Because it won't be yours.

Fricken God's way of saying you're too stupid to have a nice guitar, bucko.
 
2013-01-07 09:48:04 AM  
I saw a guitar case smashed. I didn't see a Gibson in the video.
I didn't read anything. Went straight for the proof
 
2013-01-07 09:49:05 AM  
that was an original "california girl" (don't ask) gibson case. not very sturdy.
 
2013-01-07 09:59:13 AM  
Bob Fafta, One of the worlds truely great retards.
 
2013-01-07 09:59:16 AM  
"their flight was diverted to Rochester, N.Y., due to bad weather, causing them to miss their connection in Philadelphia, Pa. They then drove to Buffalo, N.Y., to hop on a plane destined for Detroit, Mich."

That guitar committed suicide. I would too if I had to travel through those 3 cities.
 
2013-01-07 10:00:30 AM  
I'm surprised that I seem to be in before a Fender fanboi saying "nothing of value was lost"
 
2013-01-07 10:02:52 AM  

Bob Falfa: red5ish: Bob Falfa: Serious Black: ITT: Mr. Alfalfa thinks professional musicians don't know how to travel with their musical instruments.

Not at all. I have quite a few relatives and friends who make their living as musicians. I don't know a single one who has had an instrument crushed by an airline. They all have their gear shipped ahead and/or invest in proper cases and/or don't travel with $10,000 instruments. Simple as that.

This was a rare and unfortunate event, but I still maintain that he could have been traveling with a Stanley Tool Box and that elevator would have crushed it. The airline screwed up and his instrument was broken. Really you would have a hard time finding a machine better suited to crushing things than a hydraulic cargo elevator. I guess a hydraulic car crusher at a wrecking yard would be better, but the elevator will do the job.

If you can't afford to lose it, don't take it on a commercial flight.


You're sooo close now. Just one more step: Why shouldn't you take it on a commerical flight?
Answer: Because airlines suck at almost everything they're supposed to do. But just because everyone knows that fact, it doesn't mean they have a free pass to fark up without consequences.

Congratulations, you're now on the same side as the majority of the thread. The problem is it took you about 100 posts to get there. Next time sit quitely and try to figure stuff out in your head before you start blabbing.
 
2013-01-07 10:09:29 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

It is mentioned there's also the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, which he quoted and was denied, where he pays for an extra seat, the airline must comply. Your comment is invalid because the airline refused to follow -this- law. You know who else breaks guitars? United.


Sec. 41724. Musical instruments

'(a) In General-

'(1) SMALL INSTRUMENTS AS CARRY-ON BAGGAGE- An air carrier providing air transportation shall permit a passenger to carry a violin, guitar, or other musical instrument in the aircraft cabin, without charging the passenger a fee in addition to any standard fee that carrier may require for comparable carry-on baggage, if--

'(A) the instrument can be stowed safely in a suitable baggage compartment in the aircraft cabin or under a passenger seat, in accordance with the requirements for carriage of carry-on baggage or cargo established by the Administrator; and

'(B) there is space for such stowage at the time the passenger boards the aircraft.

So:

1. They cannot charge a fee.
2. They still don't have to allow the instrument on board if there is insufficient room for it.

The whole "buy an extra ticket" provision only applies to larger instruments.
 
2013-01-07 10:09:45 AM  

OgreMagi: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

Let us repeat, since you are obviously suffering from serious brain damage.  Federal law allows musicians to buy an extra seat for a musical instrument.  He attempted to do so, the airline refused.

Let's repeat for the slow (that would be you).  The airline ignored a federal law that is meant to protect valuable instruments, then caused serious damage to the instrument.  The exact thing the law is supposed to prevent.

So who's the idiot, you farking idiot?


The article didn't specify why he was refused. It's possible that there were no available seats. He chose to fly anyway.
 
2013-01-07 10:18:14 AM  
Remember, this is what you will find working at the airport:

i48.tinypic.com

plan accordingly.
 
2013-01-07 10:20:08 AM  

Helena Handbasket: OgreMagi: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

Let us repeat, since you are obviously suffering from serious brain damage.  Federal law allows musicians to buy an extra seat for a musical instrument.  He attempted to do so, the airline refused.

Let's repeat for the slow (that would be you).  The airline ignored a federal law that is meant to protect valuable instruments, then caused serious damage to the instrument.  The exact thing the law is supposed to prevent.

So who's the idiot, you farking idiot?

The article didn't specify why he was refused. It's possible that there were no available seats. He chose to fly anyway.


Can anyone please find the segment of the article that states he tried to buy a ticket for his guitar? I will give you a hint, you can't, because it is not there.

The article has two sentences. One that states he asked to place his guitar in an available seat (no indication that this would have been a seat he paid for), another sentence stated that he referenced a law that allowed musicians to bring their instruments on board, even allowing them to buy a ticket for them.

This is like saying the sentence 'Give me food, the law says you have to sell me food' is the same as 'Sell me food, the law says you have to sell me food'.
 
2013-01-07 10:21:41 AM  

Lochsteppe: ecmoRandomNumbers: I have a German violin (I won't name the maker here), that I would not trust to anybody. Mostly because I can't afford the insurance policy on it. I checked with Allstate, and they said they wouldn't insure it, then I checked Lloyds of London for shiats and giggles. HOLY CRAP! It would cost more than my car. That fiddle sits next to me everywhere I travel. I don't trust people, and I don't let other people touch it. That fiddle was a gift from a master Luthier. If you try to pull that fiddle out of my hands, I'll sock you in the mouth, while holding on to the case. That fiddle is my baby. I have a crappy Brazilian bow, but that violin is worth a lot of money.

Was his name Lex, by any chance?


When no one was looking, ecmoRandomNumbers took forty violins. He took 40 violins.
That's as many as four tens.
And that's terrible.
 
2013-01-07 10:26:43 AM  
was he playing for the Queen? no? bring a different guitar, fancy pants. it doesn't sound like he tried to buy a ticket, sounds like he cited the law, and tried to squeak by via agent ignorance to bring his case on for free. sounds like when the agent said, 'that indeed is the law, you can purchase a ticket for your gee-tar now, for 5x's the cost of your ticket, last minute tickets are expensive, eh?' and he balked. they do owe him for damages, but he isn't totally in the clear, he took his chances and is still trying to get the money for the full repair back. that is why he is being so cool about it...i wish him the best, this does suck for him. at leadt it can be fixed.
 
2013-01-07 10:26:50 AM  

me texan: Ok, the way I read the story was that he just tried to get them to let him carry the guitar on, and cited the congressional act to help his case - but didn't go so far as to buy a ticket.  If that's the case, he's an idiot for leaving a $10K instrument in the hands of the baggage monkeys.  It's still their fault it was mangled in the elevator, but he should have known better than to leave itin their care.


That sounds like what really happened.
 
2013-01-07 10:27:25 AM  

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

How?


God damn you are not just an idiot, but a farking master idiot. GO YOU!
 
2013-01-07 10:27:52 AM  
How does this guy not have his own plane with all his Hanukkah-themed rock band money?
 
2013-01-07 10:30:46 AM  

LemSkroob: Remember, this is what you will find working at the airport:

[i48.tinypic.com image 400x577]

plan accordingly.


My Cool Story Bro:
I was waiting on my plane to board and looking out the window when something moving caught my Eye. I didn't see exactly what it was until the third time. At the top of the conveyor loading the plane, luggage was falling out of the 737 cargo hold about 20' to the tarmac. I now pack accordingly.

Previous to that I flew a case of wine when moving to a new city (Pre-9-11 checked baggage fees). It was just the cardboard case with the airlines Fragile stickers. I think 9 of the 12 bottles arrived. Fortunately it was $12 a bottle wine that I only took because I was allowed a second checked bag.
 
2013-01-07 10:32:42 AM  
If Delta's looking for a way to make Guster whole -- here it is. Feature his band and friends' band on the next round of commercials, after they find him a real replacement.
 
2013-01-07 10:36:57 AM  

zedster: I saw them in concert at a Jewish youth group event once, I love Gusters older stuff so was kind of cool to get a little of the Guster experience


BitwiseShift: If Delta's looking for a way to make Guster whole -- here it is. Feature his band and friends' band on the next round of commercials, after they find him a real replacement.


Guster's appearance on Live from Darryl's House
 
2013-01-07 10:44:50 AM  
what was he flying delta??
seriously
 
2013-01-07 10:46:08 AM  

fusillade762: [content8.flixster.com image 360x270]

Can sympathize.


Is this form Electric Dreams???

I think you just won the Internet!
 
2013-01-07 10:46:53 AM  

vudukungfu: Use a bullet proof case.
Insure the shait out of it and the contents.
Then, if anything happens, you have the backing of everyone when you get paid for someone's stupidity. Because it won't be yours.

Fricken God's way of saying you're too stupid to have a nice guitar, bucko.


I also was given a suggestion for traveling with tools that seems legit, though I haven't tried it. Travel with a gun. The hard case must be locked, and you must be the only one with the key. TSA will search the case in front of you, and you get to lock it then no one can open that bag until you pick it up. Get a cheap single shot, or even a broken down flintlock if you don't like guns for your luggage.

At least at that point the TSA apes can't pocket anything from your luggage, they need to make off with the whole case.
 
2013-01-07 10:48:47 AM  

Naked Singularity: You know, I'm not going to comment about whether or not this guy should have invested in an indestructable case or not, but I'm going to have to ask:

What's with the idea that we should *expect* that our luggage should risk being destroyed in transit?

Are we saying that letting a bunch of baggage handlers (and the interim mechanical systems) damage our property is a legitimately expected course of action?

Regardless of how we put these items up for travel, isn't the default expectation the one where those personnel charged with handling them are presumed to be accountable for the intact delivery of said items?

Of all of the rhetoric about how this guy should have handled this, why aren't we talking about why it seems to be okay that the normal handling process damages what is being shipped?

Are you really arguing that it's okay for the airline to damage luggage (under any circumstance), and that the onus is always on the traveler to prevent it?
I'm of the opinion that when we pay a provider to ship our items (whether checked or not), it's on them to be held accountable for the delivery of those items.

Maybe I'm reading it incorrectly, but it seems to me that some among the posters here are trying to defend the idea that it's okay for the airline to mishandle our luggage.


Well, they acknowledge its inevitability ... but it shouldn't be expected.

Unfortunately the airline economy is to blame here. What is needed is more baggage handlers that can double up and get a plane loaded & unloaded quickly without smashing anything. But with air travel becoming worse and more expensive, the airlines will cut costs everywhere, including baggage handlers.

I would like to see positive change in this regard, however it's going to mean an almost ground-up overhaul of the air travel industry. Being a die-hard capitalist, I'd say they could start by getting the state out of their business.
 
2013-01-07 10:51:51 AM  

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


FTA: He wanted to by a ticket for the guitar. But, Delta said no.

You sound like you ate a lot of paste in second grade.
 
2013-01-07 10:54:28 AM  
A guy I used to work with years ago used to pack his music cases in other cases. I always thought it ws kind of funny and would tease him. He showed me what happend to a horn of his when it was "secured" once. I never teased him after that. He would also ship his things UPS or FedEx and insurethe fark out of them.
 
2013-01-07 10:55:23 AM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Two things I learned in this thread:

1) Don't bring an instrument into an airport under any circumstances.
2) Bob Falfa was beat up by a gang of musicians when he was a kid.


and 3) if he ever encounters musicians on a commercial flight, it will probably happen again.

/I have a few traveling-saxophone stories I could tell
//but who gives a fark about saxophones?
 
2013-01-07 10:56:03 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Flab: Did anyone read TFA?

I did!

If the airline was honoring his ticket to get him to his destination... he would have already had the ticket (had he bought one like he should have).

If he booked the flight and paid for it after landing in Rochester (see, i did read it)... he could have bought a ticket then.

If the flight from buffalo was fully booked and didn't have a seat for his guitar... well... too late to do anything since he left home with the guitar in it's lightweight, non ATA approved case. Rolling the dice at that point.


Total conjecture on my part:  Since they drove from Rochester to Buffalo to catch a flight to Detroit to make it to Florida on time, I would guess no airline was honoring any tickets he may have had, and the band was improvising at that point.

It still does not change the fact that he should have used a sturdier case.

[CSB]
10 years ago, I was working for an airline's IT supplier, and we were tired of having the baggage crews destroying servers (the airline wouldn't pay for Fedex-like shipping and said they would handle shipping themselves) so we had their millwrights build custom shipping crates built to the exact spec of the server models we had at the time, since the vendor's cardboard / styrofoam boxes were obviously not good enough.

The ratio of DOA servers didn't change all that much.  We had one of the totalled server (cracked Mobo, bent frame) sent to the Senior Director responsible for the baggage handlers to show him how bad his guys were at handling fragile parts.  Even the shipping container's steel frame was bent out of shape and one of the side had been punctured by something very sharp and hard.

From that day on, computer parts were FEDEXed to their intended location.
[/CSB]
 
2013-01-07 11:01:17 AM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Two things I learned in this thread:

1) Don't bring an instrument into an airport under any circumstances.
2) Bob Falfa was beat up by a gang of Jewish musicians when he was a kid.


Ok, now everybody is wondering why I'm laughing at my desk.

/FIFY
 
2013-01-07 11:05:49 AM  
Remember folks there is a reason they call bag boys "Throwers".
 
2013-01-07 11:08:05 AM  
At least it wasn't a Fender. That would be a REAL tragedy. (I hate Gibson purists, love the guitars though)
 
2013-01-07 11:09:52 AM  
Flab: Pray 4 Mojo: Flab: Did anyone read TFA?

I did!

If the airline was honoring his ticket to get him to his destination... he would have already had the ticket (had he bought one like he should have).

If he booked the flight and paid for it after landing in Rochester (see, i did read it)... he could have bought a ticket then.

If the flight from buffalo was fully booked and didn't have a seat for his guitar... well... too late to do anything since he left home with the guitar in it's lightweight, non ATA approved case. Rolling the dice at that point.

Total conjecture on my part:  Since they drove from Rochester to Buffalo to catch a flight to Detroit to make it to Florida on time, I would guess no airline was honoring any tickets he may have had, and the band was improvising at that point.

It still does not change the fact that he should have used a sturdier case.

[CSB]
10 years ago, I was working for an airline's IT supplier, and we were tired of having the baggage crews destroying servers (the airline wouldn't pay for Fedex-like shipping and said they would handle shipping themselves) so we had their millwrights build custom shipping crates built to the exact spec of the server models we had at the time, since the vendor's cardboard / styrofoam boxes were obviously not good enough.

The ratio of DOA servers didn't change all that much.  We had one of the totalled server (cracked Mobo, bent frame) sent to the Senior Director responsible for the baggage handlers to show him how bad his guys were at handling fragile parts.  Even the shipping container's steel frame was bent out of shape and one of the side had been punctured by something very sharp and hard.

From that day on, computer parts were FEDEXed to their intended location.
[/CSB]


Well I work for a company that Fed Ex subcontracts out stuff going to US post offices to, and you would not believe how bad shiat gets FUBARed on the fed ex truck before it gets unloaded at out warehouse (much less any damage it takes going from the fed ex truck to our truck or our truck to the post office) Anything you can tell me a package or baggage handler has farked up I'll believe it.
 
2013-01-07 11:10:47 AM  

brian7dog: Bob Falfa: FTFA:
While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland.

Also, I'm going to board a flight with my vintage chopsticks that I say are worth $5,000. I mean, I don't have any proof of that or any insurance whatsoever, but I said so. That's good, right?

Link


Thanks for the link,tried to find comparison to my 1939 Epiphone Triumph. Some were very close.
 
2013-01-07 11:13:22 AM  

Cataholic: People_are_Idiots: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

It is mentioned there's also the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, which he quoted and was denied, where he pays for an extra seat, the airline must comply. Your comment is invalid because the airline refused to follow -this- law. You know who else breaks guitars? United.

Sec. 41724. Musical instruments

'(a) In General-

'(1) SMALL INSTRUMENTS AS CARRY-ON BAGGAGE- An air carrier providing air transportation shall permit a passenger to carry a violin, guitar, or other musical instrument in the aircraft cabin, without charging the passenger a fee in addition to any standard fee that carrier may require for comparable carry-on baggage, if--

'(A) the instrument can be stowed safely in a suitable baggage compartment in the aircraft cabin or under a passenger seat, in accordance with the requirements for carriage of carry-on baggage or cargo established by the Administrator; and

'(B) there is space for such stowage at the time the passenger boards the aircraft.

So:

1. They cannot charge a fee.
2. They still don't have to allow the instrument on board if there is insufficient room for it.

The whole "buy an extra ticket" provision only applies to larger instruments.


Uhm, and how many times have you tried carrying a 3-4 foot long item as carry-on? I had issues with my 1-2 foot laptop turned off in a protective bag, and it's the only carry-on. Also, while this can easily work for flutes/clarinets/trumpets, most airlines (especially puddle-jumpers) are becoming increasingly adamant you must check your instrument in if it's over a certain size. On the puddle-jumpers it's ok (you can watch them put the instrument away), but on larger planes... you best has packed your love right.
 
2013-01-07 11:18:46 AM  

Smoky Dragon Dish: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

FTA: He wanted to by a ticket for the guitar. But, Delta said no.

You sound like you ate a lot of paste in second grade.


Please find the exact words in the article that says this. The article does not ever say that he tried to buy a ticket.
 
2013-01-07 11:19:46 AM  
I hate stories like this. As a musician, and a world traveller, I am frequently flying across the pond and to the asias. I feel bad for the guy, but moat airline employees and most TSA employees are ignorant. They have no clue about recent laws that protect you or prevent these types of gross mis-carriages of personal property.
My point: I play the double bass, the real bass, not the bastard bass prevelent in popular musix, but the big violin. It usuakly takes me checking into fed-ex, or another cargo carrier a week or more to get the instrumeny weighed and checked for flight, fully preped with flight case, bridge removed, and extra insurance. Normally, it's not worth the hassle, and I leave my expensive instruments at home, and just rent sometging where ever I go.
Pro tip: most instrument shops, and for that matter, sound/stage companies can get you pretty decent instruments, for reasonable amounts. You just have to ask, and plan ahead.
Musician has for to long been associated with slacker.
 
2013-01-07 11:21:35 AM  
The guy is a bit of a moron for going on gigs around with a guitar THAT expensive (I NEVER go to gigs with my good bass) and not putting it a strong travel case...

HOWEVER, I am not sure that ANY case would have been of much protection against an elevator (could be wrong) and it is clear to me that the airline managed it like shiat and the guy has a base to complain. I mean, an airline company still should handle your belongings properly and this is clearly not doing it... at least in my opinion.
 
2013-01-07 11:21:50 AM  
"Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments. But he was denied."

"The guitar itself was pinned between two beams and took workers an hour to retrieve it. It sustained damage to the bridge, neck and tail that would cost an estimated $1,980. But so far, Schneider says, Delta has given him the 'runaround.'"

/a couple of people in this thread are retarded... or 10/10 trolls based on persistence.
 
2013-01-07 11:26:07 AM  

Oldiron_79: Flab: Pray 4 Mojo: Flab: Did anyone read TFA?

I did!

If the airline was honoring his ticket to get him to his destination... he would have already had the ticket (had he bought one like he should have).

If he booked the flight and paid for it after landing in Rochester (see, i did read it)... he could have bought a ticket then.

If the flight from buffalo was fully booked and didn't have a seat for his guitar... well... too late to do anything since he left home with the guitar in it's lightweight, non ATA approved case. Rolling the dice at that point.

Total conjecture on my part:  Since they drove from Rochester to Buffalo to catch a flight to Detroit to make it to Florida on time, I would guess no airline was honoring any tickets he may have had, and the band was improvising at that point.

It still does not change the fact that he should have used a sturdier case.

[CSB]
10 years ago, I was working for an airline's IT supplier, and we were tired of having the baggage crews destroying servers (the airline wouldn't pay for Fedex-like shipping and said they would handle shipping themselves) so we had their millwrights build custom shipping crates built to the exact spec of the server models we had at the time, since the vendor's cardboard / styrofoam boxes were obviously not good enough.

The ratio of DOA servers didn't change all that much.  We had one of the totalled server (cracked Mobo, bent frame) sent to the Senior Director responsible for the baggage handlers to show him how bad his guys were at handling fragile parts.  Even the shipping container's steel frame was bent out of shape and one of the side had been punctured by something very sharp and hard.

From that day on, computer parts were FEDEXed to their intended location.
[/CSB]

Well I work for a company that Fed Ex subcontracts out stuff going to US post offices to, and you would not believe how bad shiat gets FUBARed on the fed ex truck before it gets unloaded at out warehouse (much less any dama ...


The main difference between Fed Ex and the airline's baggage crew, was not the quality of the service, but that stuff sent via Fed Ex was insured, whereas stuff sent via the airline itself would come out the airline's pockets.
 
2013-01-07 11:27:46 AM  

D135: "Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments. But he was denied."

"The guitar itself was pinned between two beams and took workers an hour to retrieve it. It sustained damage to the bridge, neck and tail that would cost an estimated $1,980. But so far, Schneider says, Delta has given him the 'runaround.'"

/a couple of people in this thread are retarded... or 10/10 trolls based on persistence.


Here is the quoted part in context of the article.

While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland.

"I've always carried it on," Schneider, who also tours as the lead singer of the hockey-themed rock group the Zambonis, told Yahoo News. "Never been a problem before."

Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.

But he was denied.


So, from the article, the action that was denied was not purchasing another ticket, which there was indication he tried, but being allowed to carry on the guitar.

No one is saying that Delta is not responsible for the damage, just that the idea that Delta denied him the chance to buy a second ticket is probably not accurate. The article is ambiguous on that point.
 
2013-01-07 11:29:06 AM  
As some have already pointed out, the Delta link states you can buy a full-fare ticket for your instrument.
And I know that's true.

But... it used to be that you could get a tkt for your cello (for ex) for a full-fare *childs* ticket price.
Now airlines are strapped for cash... are they making musicians pay a full-fare *adult* ticket for their instrument?

/used to be 10% of the price of a full-fare ticket
//haven't flown with my instrument in years
 
2013-01-07 11:31:36 AM  

Ghastly: Bought a Harmonium when I was in India. Wrapped it with bubble wrap 40 centimetres deep on all sides. Put it in heavy duty cardboard 3 centimetres thick. Wrapped it another 15 centimetres deep in bubble wrap.

Airline still managed to smash it. I think when airlines see "musician" as occupation on your visa they smash the shiat out of your stuff just to make sure.


This is because there is a relationship between what you said and what LordOfThePings said.
 
2013-01-07 11:46:57 AM  
I haven't been on a plane in over 16years. Even though stories like this are few and far between, I have terrible luck so I know something like this would happen to me.
 
2013-01-07 11:54:57 AM  
i.imgur.com

Here's your sign.
 
2013-01-07 11:58:13 AM  
God invented cheap Korean knockoffs so you wouldn't have to travel with your rare guitar. Let me tell all you musicians out there, 99.99% of your live audience can't tell the difference between your rare Gibson and the $99 Walmart special. Also, don't wait till you get to the airport to ask about what to do with your guitar and don't skimp on the flight case.
 
2013-01-07 11:59:48 AM  
The reason you dont need a farking steel box for your violon is because he expected to travel with it in the seat next to him.
 
2013-01-07 12:01:24 PM  

MycroftHolmes: Smoky Dragon Dish: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

FTA: He wanted to by a ticket for the guitar. But, Delta said no.

You sound like you ate a lot of paste in second grade.

Please find the exact words in the article that says this. The article does not ever say that he tried to buy a ticket.


Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.

But he was denied



So, explain... why mention it at all? Why would the musician show the airline employee this law, saying he was allowed to buy a seat for his musical instrument? That wouldn't be to his advantage... unless he was willing to go through with it.
 
2013-01-07 12:13:12 PM  

Bob Falfa: TommyymmoT: The case in question:
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
[www.eddievegas.com image 450x337]
I mispoke. Those cases don't go for $600.
This one, is being offered at $1500.

It's not a "cheap" case, it's just the WRONG case for the situation.

The case for my sunglasses is sturdier than that.
If I had a $10,00 guitar, it would travel in this:
[www.drumza.com image 250x250]
Also, I wouldn't travel with something that valuable.


If this guy wasn't smart enough to pop $250 for a Peilcan case that you could park a Hummer on, then I have no sympathy for him.
 
2013-01-07 12:14:36 PM  

Smoky Dragon Dish: So, explain... why mention it at all? Why would the musician show the airline employee this law, saying he was allowed to buy a seat for his musical instrument? That wouldn't be to his advantage... unless he was willing to go through with it.


It is not clear from the article that he mentioned it to the ticketing agent at all. That part could have been clarification added by the writer. Let me ask you this, which scenario seems more likely

1. Customer offers to purchase a last minute full fare on a flight with available seats for his instrument, but is denied, even though Delta company policy is to allow the purchase.

or

2. Customer wanted a special consideration, at no cost to himself, that the airline was unable to provide.

Which of those passes the smell test?
 
2013-01-07 12:26:27 PM  

Naked Singularity: There's the way things are and the way they ought to be. Let's just say that after 4 decades of flying I know what to expect. Millions of bags transported a year, thrown onto and off of carts, into and out of plane bellies, and finally through automated luggage systems. Your luggage will come out dirty, somewhat beaten up (if you're lucky) or damaged (if you're not).

If you want your luggage to get taken better care of ship it via Fed Ex and make sure it's insured. Or, leave it at home.

Quoting this, not your inaccurate claim that it has been answered:


This isn't to claim that the useless creatures who have been inadvertantly employed to handle airport baggage have some kind of intrinsic validity.

Here's my question (don't view it in the context of what exists, view it in the context of what *should* exist):

Why are you trying to defend the system that botches the handling of airline baggage?

What do you want? Do you want the goal to be that all airline baggage is handled carefully and delivered to the correct location, or do you want it to be handled badly, and treated like shiat?

You seem to have the viewpoint that it isn't possible to properly handle the airline luggage, and so there's no sense in even trying to do it right.

What's wrong with the idea of having a culture of treating the checked baggage as if it were your own?

What's wrong with the idea of taking pride in your work, and making sure that every package is handled with all due care and that it goes where it should?

What's wrong with the concept that we should reject the idea that it's okay to treat these packages in the worst possible way, and not be held accountable for it?

You're defending the idea that it's okay to slack off and treat what comes past you as some kind of inconvenience.

I'm offering up the idea that it's perfectly acceptable to spend the effort to deliver what is promised (that what is checked is delivered in the same condition as when it was presented).


So very much THIS!
 
2013-01-07 12:44:20 PM  

FormlessOne: me texan: Ok, the way I read the story was that he just tried to get them to let him carry the guitar on, and cited the congressional act to help his case - but didn't go so far as to buy a ticket.  If that's the case, he's an idiot for leaving a $10K instrument in the hands of the baggage monkeys.  It's still their fault it was mangled in the elevator, but he should have known better than to leave itin their care.

Then you missed the point where he asked to buy a ticket, and was denied. From the article:

While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland.

"I've always carried it on," Schneider, who also tours as the lead singer of the hockey-themed rock group the Zambonis, told Yahoo News. "Never been a problem before."

Schneider says he even showed them a link to a story about Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments.

But he was denied.

He tried, Delta humped a bunk, and the result was squished stringamajig.


He tried to buy a ticket at the farking gate AFTER they told him he couldn't bring it on the plane. Sure, hold everyone up because he didn't plan ahead. Real musicians buy real flight cases and check their instruments. I have no sympathy for this moran.
 
2013-01-07 12:52:30 PM  

D135: "Congress passing the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012 that made it easier for musicians to fly with their instruments-allowing them to purchase an extra seat on the plane for their fragile instruments. But he was denied."

"The guitar itself was pinned between two beams and took workers an hour to retrieve it. It sustained damage to the bridge, neck and tail that would cost an estimated $1,980. But so far, Schneider says, Delta has given him the 'runaround.'"

/a couple of people in this thread are retarded... or 10/10 trolls based on persistence.


You fail at reading comprehension. In your defense, TFA is intentionally misleading, but it doesn't say he asked to buy a ticket. The delicious irony in this thread is the name-calling and posturing about reading the article... by people that read it... yet... clearly failed to understand it.

Read it a few more times... you'll see it.

Hint: Verbs are very important... don't ignore them... or add your own.
 
2013-01-07 12:53:27 PM  

MycroftHolmes: Smoky Dragon Dish: So, explain... why mention it at all? Why would the musician show the airline employee this law, saying he was allowed to buy a seat for his musical instrument? That wouldn't be to his advantage... unless he was willing to go through with it.

It is not clear from the article that he mentioned it to the ticketing agent at all. That part could have been clarification added by the writer. Let me ask you this, which scenario seems more likely

1. Customer offers to purchase a last minute full fare on a flight with available seats for his instrument, but is denied, even though Delta company policy is to allow the purchase.

or

2. Customer wanted a special consideration, at no cost to himself, that the airline was unable to provide.

Which of those passes the smell test?


Typically, I would say 2. Based on my reading of the article, however, I say it was option 3:

3: Customer wanted to carry on a musical insturment onto a full flight. Delta said no, it's a full flight and there is no room. Customer offered to buy a ticket for the instrument. Delta said no, it's a full flight and there is no room.


Now, here is MY speculation:
The point everybody is missing in this thread is that the bag was GATE CHECKED.

Gate Checking != Checking bags. Now, the fact that Delta was gate-checking bags makes me think that he was flying on one of those Embraer flying-busses, plus he was flying from Buffalo to Detroit. Otherwise, how did he take the photo of his crushed guitar? Plus, he said he heard the noise himself. I've seen how people treat the baggage handlers on the gangway. I think that the baggage handler may have done it on purpose.

Normally, when you gate-check a bag, it's nearly as safe as putting it in an overhead. Only two pther people touch that bag. The baggage handler in the departing airport, and the baggage handler at the arrival airport. I can't speculate on whether the baggage handler did it on purpose or not, since either seems equally likely.

But, my point was only that the customer wanted to bring his guitar on board, even to go as far as purchasing a ticket for the guitar, but delta said no (for whatever reason).
 
2013-01-07 12:54:27 PM  
Sheesh this thing blew up.

Please, someone with a physics background explain how if the remains of a flimsy case are crushed down far enough that even a steel beam would be bent by trying to compact it further.

And to all the people that said the guy tried to buy a ticket, re read the article.  It never says that.  It does however say that he tried to get them to let him put his guitar in an open seat, and he tried to back his plea up by citing congress.  And if you still don't beleive it, ask yourself this question:

If he was going to buy an extra seat, as allowed by congress, why didn't he do it when he purchased his?

And to those of you who think the original case is good enough to send what is basically a valuable piece of art: Do you expect to walk through the slums of Rio with the same expectation of being unmolested as you do walking through times square?  The answer is no - you hope for the best, but expect the worst.  If I sent a brand new iPad through in checked baggage in its original box you would laugh at them for being a dumbass.  It doesn't mean the airline wasn't negligent.  It means that they were, but that the person sending it was completely naive about it to the point that you would question his judgement.
 
2013-01-07 12:58:06 PM  
Not News: Airlines destroy item. Fark: 300+ comments, most arguing about reading comprehension.
/Thanks, helped grow my ignore list.
// By posting this, I added to the problem. Wee!
/// You're not stuck IN traffic, you ARE traffic.
 
2013-01-07 01:05:27 PM  

Rihlsul: Fark: 300+ comments, most arguing about reading comprehension.


You got something better to talk about?
 
2013-01-07 01:14:06 PM  
There's one for $8500 buy now on ebay.
 
2013-01-07 01:27:09 PM  
Years ago, when my father passed away (in the late 80's), he left me his 12-string acoustic guitar. Nothing valuable, but still a nice guitar.

I tried to bring it on as carry-on baggage, and they told me I couldn't. They tried to fit it in the front compartment (a small closet for Jackets), it wouldn't fit. They insisted I check it. I told them how I'd gotten it, and that I was afraid it would get harmed, they assured me it would be fine.

When it came down the luggage area, it had three clear footprints on it, and the case was cracked. Inside was the smashed remains of my dad's guitar. It had been curbstomped multiple times.

Destroyed completely. Complaints to management went unanswered for weeks. Eventually I was offerred fifty dollars for the damage.

Don't trust airlines with anything valuable.
 
2013-01-07 01:35:34 PM  

TommyymmoT: I toured for many years, and I always stressed to NOT bring anything with you that you can't afford to have damaged or stolen.
Yes, your '57 Les Paul is very nice, but if we're flying, leave it home and buy a beater that does the job.
I've picked up my share of empty guitar cases from from luggage carousels, and that sinking feeling when you pick up that case, is not good.

I've started building, buying and selling the occasional expensive instrument, and If I sell something over $1200, I charge an extra $150 to cover the cost of a used flight case to ship it in.
Airlines aren't the only bunglers out there.

This, is how that guitar should have been traveling.
[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 259x194]

[encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 316x159]
[encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com image 296x170]

Fact is, even just the original Gibson CASE that was destroyed, cost more than any of the proper cases pictured above.


Because if 9/11 idiocy, you can no longer lock your luggage. The baggage monkeys will still steal it.
 
2013-01-07 01:39:01 PM  

lohphat: The baggage monkeys will still steal it.


If it's locked they won't.

/but the TSA will.
 
2013-01-07 01:43:30 PM  

Flab: OptimusHime: Pray 4 Mojo: Flight case dude... look into them.

Cyno01: And fta he tried to buy a seat for it even but was denied.

No he didn't. Apparently you and subby both failed to RTFA...

"While boarding in Buffalo, Schneider says he asked Delta staffers not to check in the vintage guitar-which he estimates is worth about $10,000-and allow him to carry it on the plane and place it in an available space, as he did on the flight from Portland."

Insofar as the link he showed the employees was a rule allowing musicians to buy a separate seat for their instrument, I'm going to assume that his implied offer was buying the ticket. It seems more believable than the employees go through the hassle of offering him the chance to buy the ticket right then and there. Of course it could have been the lack of foresight on his part not to buy the ticket ahead of time, and the crunch of travel that made carrying it and just putting it in an available space impossible. Really, to me, both perspectives are conceivable.

His flight was diverted and he missed his connection. It's kind of hard to buy your ticket in advance when this happens!

Did anyone read TFA?


Actually fairly easy. It would be taken care of the same way I would take care of my brother's ticket if we were traveling together and this happened: at the same time I arrange the connection for myself, I make sure my brother's ticket is taken care of as well rather than try to get him on the plane without planning.

Bear in mind that my definition of "in advance" isn't "days in advance", it's "before you're actually in the process of boarding and the employees have to say 'Sir, that won't fit, I'm afraid you'll have to check it.'"
 
2013-01-07 01:45:40 PM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Bob Falfa: Dalek Caan's doomed mistress: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

I've seen airlines turn those nearly indestructible cases into Swiss cheese before. A good friend of mine's cello was mangled and destroyed that way. As far as I can tell airlines go out of their way to smash instruments. I managed to get lucky the one time I flew with my viola and there was a policy at the time that they could store it in a closet as carry on and not checked.

My friend was not so lucky and lost a horn on that same flight.

/after looking at the case for that horn they had to have purposefully gone out of their way to smash it
//flattened and chunks taken out

Sorry to hear of your misfortune.
Guess you have to obey the rules and check bags that don't fit into overhead bins like the rest of us mortals. Boo farking hoo.
Seems like somebody could make a fortune make really, really good instrument cases.

If the case is good enough, the instrument will disappear instead of being mangled. Problem solved!


You want fun? My friend had literal "bulletproof" cases for his alto and tenor saxophones. One per case, each case a combination of high grade steel, ballistic cloth, and some incredible padding and liner materials. The airlines managed to destroy both on the same flight.

The manufacturer of these cases used to show how tough they were by shooting them rifles, pistols, and dropping them from multiple stories high.

Those cases looked like someone mashed them in a press until something finally collapsed. The airlines just hate musical instruments. I think they hate guns too, but there's a lot more hell to pay of you mash a firearms case.
 
2013-01-07 01:55:01 PM  
Vintage Gibson owner so I am definitely not getting a kick etc. Now I know its a dead thread but a lot of people in here are full of crap, just a brief recap of the highlights:

A. 10 grand for a guitar really isn't very much, I live in Podunk TX and just a couple of months ago met a guy in a local shop with a Martin from the 20's worth literally tens of thousands. Guitars of this value are called "heirloom quality" as many are literally handed down father to son for generations like they were f'ing Samurai swords or something. Granted not all are gained this way but just because he owns a 10k guitar does not mean he's rich. Not to mention a perusal of Gibson's current line will give you several models newly produced without the vintage premium added that have an MSRP of over $10,000

B. Chances are he did try to buy a seat as others have said why mention the ability to buy a seat without the intention of buying a seat? Your refutations of "the article never explicitly states that he tried to secure a seat" are lazy and childish.

C. The figure of $1980 is the cost of having the guitar repaired, the guy isn't even asking for the value of the guitar which lets be realistic would be the minimum he would be awarded in any court of law. So he's obviously not just trying to get paid. His instrument is the tool of his trade he could also get cash for lost wages as a result of this probably it would be like if someone demonstrably at fault had destroyed a tow truck belonging to a small wrecking business. Any lawyer worth the name dirtbag will get him at least that.

D. Lastly to the genius who suggested he buy a Pelican case I'll make you a deal I'll let you drive over my SG in a Pelican case with a hummer right after you let me drive over yours.

Sorry everyone but I take guitars very, very seriously. That being said if they hadn't allowed me to buy a seat for my guitar I would have tried to book with another airline.
 
2013-01-07 02:06:48 PM  
I don't know if it's been said but if he tried to buy a ticket during boarding then yeah, they probably wouldn't be able to accommodate him. Most of the flights I take these days are at capacity. If the flight was full, obviously they wouldn't have a seat to sell him. If the flight wasn't full, then maybe they just didn't want to dick around for a guitar. During boarding they are focused on getting the plane into the air on schedule.

Now, if he had tried to buy a seat for the guitar in advance, that's another story altogether. I doubt he did that though.
 
2013-01-07 02:08:48 PM  

ScaryBottles: the guy isn't even asking for the value of the guitar which lets be realistic would be the minimum he would be awarded in any court of law.


No, the minimum he would be awarded in any court of law is the liability limit the airline put in their terms and conditions, to which the guy agreed when he checked his guitar.
 
2013-01-07 02:38:26 PM  
"It was this crazy sound," Schneider said. "Metal on metal."
www.moviezit.com
 
2013-01-07 02:55:51 PM  

Oldiron_79: I'm surprised that I seem to be in before a Fender fanboi saying "nothing of value was lost"


far, far too many comments to read on a nice january afternoon (well, nice for january anyway) and I should be outside walking.

Came to say "If it had been a telecaster, it would not even be out of tune."

It's sad to lose a '65 ES 335 but thank goodness it wasn't a dot neck '59 with original PAFs. But, yeah, cali girl cases are not for protecting the guitar against airline apes.

/not expecting people who don't speak guitar to understand my post, it's ok.
 
2013-01-07 03:31:07 PM  
Whole pile of asshole idiots up in here.

How about the fooking airlines not completely destroy peoples crap?

Huh? Is that so damned impossible?

And the knobs railing the hardest against this guy obviously have no idea what it's like being a working musician on the road. In theory he should have been able to carry on the axe. They screwed him on it. What was he supposed to do? Cancel the gig? Leave his axe in an airport locker?

I personally wouldn't take an instrument that valuable on the road but those Gibby cases are solid. There is no excuse for what happened.

Also I'm not sure if this article mentions it (I read about this a few days ago) but the corksmoker airline offered him $1000. He declined that offer because he didn't have a quote for the repairs yet. The quote ended up being more so that was wise of him. When he did have the quote and tried to contact them they wouldn't return his messages. It was only after he made a stink in the press the airline stepped up. Dude's not being greedy either. It damaged the bridge which isn't such a huge deal but it also damaged the neck which IS a huge deal. Any neck damage and subsequent repairs significantly alter the tone and playability of a guitar and the resale value. He should have made the cocksuckers pay for the entire value because it is no longer the same instrument and any further appreciation of value will be lost.

Now I didn't mention the fact he asked to pay for an extra ticket but when this first came to light the article I read said he had. They refused. That's against the law. Perhaps the flight was filled up, perhaps that part of the story was bullsh*t... doesn't matter. The real problem here is that arseholes here seem to think that it's perfectly okay that this guy's instrument got trashed. The rape analogy upthread was apt.

Well hey, you should know that guys rape people... so you shouldn't have had a vagina. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!

Idiots.
 
2013-01-07 03:59:55 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: Serious Black: My Maribel is worth about $2,500, and I don't have nearly enough money to fly first class everywhere I go.

Is Maribel a guitar? You leave the "expensive" gear at home.

A $199 Epiphone sounds remarkably similar to a '59 Les Paul in a large venue.


Funny you say that. I've recently sold my '88 Les Paul (not a particularly good year) and a Randall 100 watt 2x12" combo. Expensive Guitar, moderately cheap amp. Turned right around with the same money and bought a Squier Tele Classic Vibe, a Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Bass (about $275 each) and an Egnater Rebel-30 head and 1x12". These "cheap" guitars play and sound WAAAY better than my old setup. My old bass player was blown away by the Squier Jazz bass, and has since purchased two squier guitars, and 3 squier basses. The Squier line of Fender guitars is better than the REAL Fenders, up to the American Standards. I tried the squier tele against a boatload of other teles, and the only one that played and sounded better was a $1500 Fender AS.

It's not so much how expensive the instrument, it's how it's played in experienced hands...
 
2013-01-07 04:14:59 PM  
My son the bassoonist (not an Alan Sherman record AFAIK) travels everywhere with his $25k instrument - a bassoon comes apart for storage and its case will fit in an overhead bin though. When I was younger I flew everywhere with my beloved 000-18 and never thought twice about checking it along with my other luggage. The old wooden case got beat up, but the guitar always arrived in perfect shape.

They make folding guitars now too.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-07 04:21:35 PM  

Johnny Bananapeel:

They make folding guitars now too.

[i.imgur.com image 291x350]


Oh gawd... no no no NO!
 
2013-01-07 04:43:07 PM  
From the comments in this thread I've learned that unless you pack your guitar in a 3 inch thick steel safe, expect it to be trashed and it's your fault because you didn't teleport it there.
 
2013-01-07 04:48:12 PM  

Cyclonic Cooking Action: From the comments in this thread I've learned that unless you pack your guitar in a 3 inch thick steel safe, expect it to be trashed and it's your fault because you didn't teleport it there.


And even then, it'll either be destroyed or stolen by the people at the airport.
 
2013-01-07 04:48:53 PM  
Am I seeing what I think I'm seeing?  Did that "United Breaks Guitars" video really get 12 million views on YouTube?  Damn.  Respect.  I've never gotten that kind of publicity from a broken instrument...
 
2013-01-07 05:11:05 PM  

Smoky Dragon Dish: fusillade762: [content8.flixster.com image 360x270]

Can sympathize.

Is this form Electric Dreams???

I think you just won the Internet!


Yup. First thing that came to mind when I thought of "sting instrument smashed by an elevator".
 
2013-01-07 05:12:25 PM  
All you farkers complaining about how he should've used a stronger case etc seem to have forgotten that he was never intending to check in the guitar. He was going to hand carry them on board until Delta denied him. It seemed like on his previous flights he had always been allowed to hand carry it on board.
 
2013-01-07 05:13:32 PM  

Watubi: God invented cheap Korean knockoffs so you wouldn't have to travel with your rare guitar. Let me tell all you musicians out there, 99.99% of your live audience can't tell the difference between your rare Gibson and the $99 Walmart special. Also, don't wait till you get to the airport to ask about what to do with your guitar and don't skimp on the flight case.


It has been said a few time. It is a now a law that they have to let you take the guitar on board as carry on luggage. As for a flight case? I have seen a $1000 Carlton Case that had a hole punched into it and the guitar by an airline. The difference in a $1000 guitar and a $100 guitar? No maybe average person listening might not, but the guy on stage trying to play a guitar that hums like a florescent light and action so high a hobo could live under the strings knows.
 
2013-01-07 05:59:01 PM  

fusillade762: Smoky Dragon Dish: fusillade762: [content8.flixster.com image 360x270]

Can sympathize.

Is this form Electric Dreams???

I think you just won the Internet!

Yup. First thing that came to mind when I thought of "sting instrument smashed by an elevator".


It's near impossible to find a region 1 DVD of that movie.
 
2013-01-07 06:11:57 PM  

Bob Falfa: Cyno01: Bob Falfa: Mokmo: Bob Falfa: He's an idiot for not investing in a decent case. My BIL makes his living by playing his trombone and believe me, he has a goddamn bulletproof case for that instrument.
Sorry if this guy thought that airline rules don't apply to him. Jackass. "Bbbbbbut my guitar is special. Can't I take up three people's overhead bins if my guitar is special? Waaaaa"

The case bent a steel beam, yet the guitar is still repairable. I'm not sure there's something more solid he could carry around...

Risks of air travel. He has a $10,000 guitar and he's flying coach?
Next time take Greyhound.

If youre trolling, its not working, youre just coming off like you have absolutely zero reading comprehension, why dont you take the rest of the evening to reflect and come back and try again fresh tomorrow.

Not trolling, Just sick and tired of people who take up the entire overhead bin with their crap. I'm quite tall and therefore cannot put my bag under the seat in front of me.


So, your knees bend backwards? Because that's the only way you'd ever get enough leg under the seat to make sure your purse wouldn't fit.

Instruments are regularly lost and destroyed -- not just by improper handling, but the rapid, drastic temperature change of a plane's cargo hold can absolutely ruin delicately glued, finely-fit wooden parts.

Your anecdotal evidence -- that your BIL never had a problem -- means nothing, because those of us with instruments can tell you flying is nothing but problems. I always carry my guitars on, only one flight attendant has ever said anything, and she stashed it for me somewhere else on-plane. Because she knew it'd be farked if they put it down below.

So, stop.
 
2013-01-07 06:12:46 PM  
funny, it looks like the original case but that's not what gibson says.

Brown hardshell case with a pink lining was the top-end Gibson case from 1958 to 1961. Then in 1962 the case changed to a black outside with a yellow plush interior.

hopefully, since the article says the only the bridge was damaged, he'll just be able to replace it and not have any damage to the neck or body.
 
2013-01-07 06:19:19 PM  
i.imgur.com

"Sorry."
 
2013-01-07 06:22:54 PM  

Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.


No dumbass, he tried to buy it an extra seat like every other musician does with their expensive guitars and cellos and such.
 
2013-01-07 06:27:01 PM  

Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.


Paragraph 5
 
2013-01-07 06:38:42 PM  

fusillade762: Smoky Dragon Dish: fusillade762: [content8.flixster.com image 360x270]

Can sympathize.

Is this form Electric Dreams???

I think you just won the Internet!

Yup. First thing that came to mind when I thought of "sting instrument smashed by an elevator".


Favored
 
2013-01-07 06:40:43 PM  

leonel: fusillade762: Smoky Dragon Dish: fusillade762: [content8.flixster.com image 360x270]

Can sympathize.

Is this form Electric Dreams???

I think you just won the Internet!

Yup. First thing that came to mind when I thought of "sting instrument smashed by an elevator".

It's near impossible to find a region 1 DVD of that movie.


I noticed that. Guess it's too much to hope for bluray
 
2013-01-07 06:41:23 PM  
Concerning whether or not he offered to buy a seat why don't you ask the guy.

They have a website
 
2013-01-07 06:43:18 PM  

badgerb: Concerning whether or not he offered to buy a seat why don't you ask the guy.

They have a website


They also have a facebook page, and TFA links directly to the facebook post about the incident.
 
2013-01-07 07:09:46 PM  

pdrake: not have any damage to the neck or body.


Article I read a few days ago said the neck was damaged as well. She won't ever be the same.
 
2013-01-07 07:22:30 PM  
yep, too bad. he should've used his calzone case. might not have happened or been as bad.
 
2013-01-07 07:45:05 PM  

ccundiff: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

No dumbass, he tried to buy it an extra seat like every other musician does with their expensive guitars and cellos and such.


Asked to carry-on. Showed an article. Was denied.

Again... for the afternoon class... words mean things.That's why we choose different verbs for different actions. Look them up if you have to. It might help.

I'm loving the complete jackassery of the douches yelling "RTFA dumbass!" when they clearly don't understand it... even though they read it.

I'm enjoying it so much... it will probably ruin the rest of my week once there's no more douchenozzling in this thread.
 
2013-01-07 07:46:21 PM  
350...

not bad. :)
 
2013-01-07 07:56:37 PM  

Pray 4 Mojo: ccundiff: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

No dumbass, he tried to buy it an extra seat like every other musician does with their expensive guitars and cellos and such.

Asked to carry-on. Showed an article. Was denied.

Again... for the afternoon class... words mean things.That's why we choose different verbs for different actions. Look them up if you have to. It might help.


Because the issue is totally whether or not he tried to buy his guitar a plane ticket -- an idea akin to "corporations are people" in my book -- and this isn't at all about a legitimate special case where everyone should have understood that carrying it on was no big deal.

I bet you have no problem with this, though, aka, the real problem:

i.usatoday.net
 
2013-01-07 08:29:07 PM  

Scrotastic Method: Pray 4 Mojo: ccundiff: Bob Falfa: Kuroshin: Bob Falfa: Does it meet the size requirements for carry-ons? No? THEN farkING CHECK IT.

Good jorb. You've outed yourself as an idiot. Congrats.

He didn't want to abide by the rules and I'm the idiot? If his guitar fits under the seat in front of him or in the overhead bin, fine carry it on. Otherwise CHECK IT.

No dumbass, he tried to buy it an extra seat like every other musician does with their expensive guitars and cellos and such.

Asked to carry-on. Showed an article. Was denied.

Again... for the afternoon class... words mean things.That's why we choose different verbs for different actions. Look them up if you have to. It might help.

Because the issue is totally whether or not he tried to buy his guitar a plane ticket -- an idea akin to "corporations are people" in my book -- and this isn't at all about a legitimate special case where everyone should have understood that carrying it on was no big deal.

I bet you have no problem with this, though, aka, the real problem:

[i.usatoday.net image 490x360]


Well... the issue to me is assholes calling other people stupid when they are wrong.

The issue related to the story... is that Delta straight up farked that guy and he deserves to be paid whatever it takes to make him whole (up to the limit stated in their baggage policy).

The final issue is the moron who is a "professional" musician and is flying coach... with a guitar that has no worldly business being out of his studio... in a case that is entirely unsuitable for air travel... carried on or not.
 
2013-01-07 11:59:14 PM  

Scrotastic Method: special case where everyone should have understood that carrying it on was no big deal.


If there wasn't room for it, then it doesn't matter how super special he thinks his thing is compared to everyone's elses super special things: there wasn't room. Tough shiat.
 
2013-01-08 01:16:44 AM  
I feel your pain, crazy musician types. It pisses us gun nuts off just as bad when our zero shifts due to the firearm being handled by an ape with a union card.
 
2013-01-08 03:03:13 AM  

Pray 4 Mojo: The issue related to the story... is that Delta straight up farked that guy and he deserves to be paid whatever it takes to make him whole (up to the limit stated in their baggage policy).


Hr expected to be able to carry it in the cabin in spite of policies stating otherwise, attempted to browbeat the gate agents into allowing it anyway, neglected to pack it for checking, declined to insure its full value against damage, and went to the press with an extremely stretched story about his guitar being "denied" a seat on the airplane when pretty much everyone knows that you don't just walk up to a gate agent expecting to be able to purchase a seat.

Despite all this, and in the absence of pictures of the actual guitar, you're willing to take his word that damages to his guitar exceeded the $1000 Delta offered him.
 
2013-01-08 05:33:11 AM  

ccundiff: Bob Falfa: Pray 4 Mojo: divx88: Why do you dumb farkers not read the article? He wanted to pay for another seat for his instrument.

Really? Where does it say that?

THIS. Article never says that he offered to buy the seat.

Paragraph 5


reread the paragraph. It does not say what you think it says.
 
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