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(NYPost)   For The Children: NYC erases 'unsatisfactory' ratings of lousy teachers, if they agree to quit. Fark: Removing the negative rating helps them land jobs in other schools   (nypost.com) divider line 105
    More: Fail, United Federation of Teachers, Department of Education, teachers  
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3021 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Jan 2013 at 1:36 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-06 10:33:02 AM  
The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.
 
2013-01-06 10:55:37 AM  
In the 2010-11 school year, the DOE charged 78 teachers with incompetence, it says. Hearing officers agreed to terminate 18 after long administrative trials...  Last year, the DOE charged 88 teachers with incompetence. It won just 11 dismissal cases...
 I'm okay with the DOE wiping out unproven "unsatisfactory" allegations and giving a neutral rating, if they're really this bad at  actually proving that a teacher is incompetent.
 
2013-01-06 11:00:55 AM  
As a matter of practice in the private sector, most employers give neutral ratings.  HR will generally only say that person X worked for the company between such and such dates.

Even IF someone gets an unsatisfactory rating, does that mean they should be unemployable?  They should get another opportunity to prove themselves without having to wear the scarlet letter.

Common sense subs.
 
2013-01-06 11:49:02 AM  
just more social promotion.

it has worked so well for the students let the teachers try it out.
 
2013-01-06 01:38:03 PM  
Unions FTW!
 
2013-01-06 01:38:47 PM  

RexTalionis: The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.


This.

The current climate of hunting down "bad" teachers is part of the problem. The focus should be in teacher training and improving teacher performance. We need teacher-positive solutions.
 
2013-01-06 01:39:41 PM  
I have a better idea. Lets just give them guns and see how the problem works itself out.
 
2013-01-06 01:46:20 PM  

slayer199: As a matter of practice in the private sector, most employers give neutral ratings.  HR will generally only say that person X worked for the company between such and such dates.



Bears repeating.
 
2013-01-06 01:47:20 PM  
Face it, some people can't teach.  Or are too lazy to care.  Why not weed these incompetents out?

I had a couple bad teachers grades K-12, and 2 really horrible college profs.  These people had no business inside a classroom.
 
2013-01-06 01:48:46 PM  
Unsatisfactory ratings followed teachers around? And here I thought all this time that "This is going on your permanent record" was just an idle threat.
 
2013-01-06 01:49:37 PM  
Something that isn't talked about enough...

When you have a system in place that requires a trained, accredited adult supervisor for every 25 children across America, but you want to compensate them not significantly different from a normal blue-collar job, you're going to have to settle for some warm bodies here and there. And it doesn't matter what you do so long as this is true. There will be a "turkey" in every hallway.

George Carlin explains why it will never change in this country.

/Education is still way better than it was merely 1 lifetime ago.
 
2013-01-06 01:51:04 PM  

slayer199: As a matter of practice in the private sector, most employers give neutral ratings.  HR will generally only say that person X worked for the company between such and such dates.

Even IF someone gets an unsatisfactory rating, does that mean they should be unemployable?  They should get another opportunity to prove themselves without having to wear the scarlet letter.

Common sense subs.


Because they are afraid of lawsuits, not because its a good idea.
 
2013-01-06 01:52:44 PM  
Aside from the problems with the rating system (which are pretty big and important), and the problems with rating teachers in general, I can kinda see how this makes sense.

When it comes time to make cuts many K-12 schools give preference to teachers based on seniority, regardless of performance. That makes it harder for new teachers to stay, even if they're great. If unsat teachers are booted out regardless of the time they spent in their position, that effectively resets them in the job market. They have to compete again based only their accomplishments and experience, and cannot rely on seniority.

A neutral review won't hurt the truly poor teachers, but it also won't hurt the great teachers that were booted because of a flawed rating system (like that math teacher with really high performing high school seniors who all did well on the AP exams, but were too excited for summer/college to do well on the state exams).
 
2013-01-06 01:53:28 PM  

RexTalionis: The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.


Cannot speak for the NYC teacher effectiveness assessments, but this is generally accounted for depending on the metric... somewhat. For instance, districts/states which use standardized test achievement as part of the metric (all of the ones I have seen, which is quite a few but there are many) provide automatic point correction based on low income, ESOL, and ESE students in the classroom. There are still numerous other flaws in those systems no matter how accurate the point correction is, and I do not mean to say what you mention is a non-issue, but I frequently hear this as the first and only complaint.
 
2013-01-06 01:53:30 PM  
It also depends which aspect of their evaluation was deemed unsatisfactory. You can have teachers who have excellent content knowledge, but who struggle to teach in certain school environments because their classroom management needs honing. Those teachers might do better in a different school with different supports.

Personally, my best teaching has happened in environments where there are opportunities to collaborate, to do cross curricular planning, and in which the supervisors allow us to have some freedom to try out new ideas.
 
2013-01-06 01:53:48 PM  
Hopefully if you earn an unsatisfactory rating at a job, you learn some constructive lessons from that that you can apply at your next job.

I've been fired from exactly one job in my life over 25-ish years. Biggest lesson learned: how to recognize when you're a poor fit for the job, and the work environment, and to GTFO before it gets really bad.
 
2013-01-06 01:54:51 PM  

RexTalionis: The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.


This is 100% accurate.

Also - many times bad teachers become administrators. Most bad administrators rarely get bad ratings because the school hopes another school will come in and hire them; relieving them of a long term contract and getting rid of a problem. Of course history tends to repeat itself.
 
2013-01-06 01:55:45 PM  
Hey, are we allowed to give parents an 'unsatisfactory' rating when their gun-toting, drug-addled, disrespectful, unintelligent crotch-fruit don't show up to school? Oh, no, I forgot, you're not allowed to tell a scumbag that they're a scumbag and their kids are just little scumbags. Wouldn't be PC. Let's just blame the teachers. Works easier.
 
2013-01-06 01:56:48 PM  
Well, good luck to anyone trying to get hired again after teaching in NYC, unless they have atomic-glow reviews on their record.
 
2013-01-06 02:00:38 PM  
The department will provide, upon request, a neutral letter documenting her employment with the DOE and will convert her U ratings to S ratings in the DOE computer system."

It adds, "Thus if she were to seek employment outside the DOE, her computer employment records would show only 'satisfactory'

What's with the gender specific crap? Even I know that in business, when stating policy you keep it gender-neutral. Maybe these powers that be are as much a part of the problem and anyone else.
 
2013-01-06 02:03:58 PM  
baby jaili49.tinypic.comdifferent baby jail
 
2013-01-06 02:04:29 PM  
"The department will provide, upon request, a neutral letter documenting her employment with the DOE and will convert her U ratings to S ratings in the DOE computer system."

"To whom it may concern:
Ms Nomer was formerly employed by the New York City Department of Education. She committed no felonies that we know of.
Sincerely,
A. Drone
Deputy Assistant Subaltern Lieutenant Correspondence Responder"
 
2013-01-06 02:04:31 PM  
3gdoctor.files.wordpress.com

I think this pretty well sums it up. And UNIONS!!!
 
2013-01-06 02:04:36 PM  
And while everyone is focusing on rating teachers, quality of education continues to decline...
 
2013-01-06 02:05:31 PM  
and yall keep voting Democrat...
 
2013-01-06 02:10:56 PM  

Alphakronik: I have a better idea. Lets just give them guns and see how the problem works itself out.


Shut the fark up. Add something constructive or just don't post. Every time you or anyone else posts stupid shiat like this you trivialize the real issue so just stop it. Log off your computer go outside and play with your friends and let the grown folk have an actual conversation you farking moron.
 
2013-01-06 02:11:26 PM  
The kids aren't gonna vote for democrats if they get educated, now will they?
 
2013-01-06 02:14:50 PM  

8Fingers: The department will provide, upon request, a neutral letter documenting her employment with the DOE and will convert her U ratings to S ratings in the DOE computer system."

It adds, "Thus if she were to seek employment outside the DOE, her computer employment records would show only 'satisfactory'

What's with the gender specific crap? Even I know that in business, when stating policy you keep it gender-neutral. Maybe these powers that be are as much a part of the problem and anyone else.


blogs.courant.com
source
 
2013-01-06 02:15:16 PM  

Theaetetus: In the 2010-11 school year, the DOE charged 78 teachers with incompetence, it says. Hearing officers agreed to terminate 18 after long administrative trials...  Last year, the DOE charged 88 teachers with incompetence. It won just 11 dismissal cases...
 I'm okay with the DOE wiping out unproven "unsatisfactory" allegations and giving a neutral rating, if they're really this bad at  actually proving that a teacher is incompetent.


Do you know the procedural steps involved in establishing incompetence?
 
2013-01-06 02:16:54 PM  

Dafatone: RexTalionis: The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.

This.

The current climate of hunting down "bad" teachers is part of the problem. The focus should be in teacher training and improving teacher performance. We need teacher-positive solutions.


And what sort of training do you propose for teachers refusing to teach?
 
2013-01-06 02:18:27 PM  

RexTalionis: The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.


true that. a music or art teacher? whee!, fun, easy to get good ratings. english, history, math? honors class is one thing. the bulk of the students hate being there. they will rip the teacher because they can. really piss poor set up NY has going on. those teachers are trying to make a living. it's farking ridiculous. the same shiat wouldn't fly in other professions.
 
2013-01-06 02:18:45 PM  
 
2013-01-06 02:19:17 PM  

Snotnose: I had a couple bad teachers grades K-12


A couple of bad teachers in 13 years of school? Out of, what, like 3 dozen teachers?

Holy shiat, that is damn near godlike in the ratio of good employees to bad compared to nearly everywhere else that exists. Your school system must be doing almost everything right. The administration should teach seminars.
 
2013-01-06 02:19:54 PM  

Bontesla: Dafatone: RexTalionis: The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.

This.

The current climate of hunting down "bad" teachers is part of the problem. The focus should be in teacher training and improving teacher performance. We need teacher-positive solutions.

And what sort of training do you propose for teachers refusing to teach?


Is that something that happens more than one in a thousand times?
 
2013-01-06 02:22:04 PM  
Great and sad story of how to make a really good school in a piss poor neighborhood and how to subsequently shut down a system that works:  "Two Steps Back" (audio, 1 hour, transcript available in link)
 
2013-01-06 02:22:10 PM  
This...
4.bp.blogspot.com

Plus this...
www.moonbattery.com

Equal this...
www.ohe.state.mn.us
 
2013-01-06 02:23:07 PM  

Dafatone: Bontesla: Dafatone: RexTalionis: The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.

This.

The current climate of hunting down "bad" teachers is part of the problem. The focus should be in teacher training and improving teacher performance. We need teacher-positive solutions.

And what sort of training do you propose for teachers refusing to teach?

Is that something that happens more than one in a thousand times?


There does seem to be a strong correlation between conservative thought and attendance at schools where all the teachers are terrible assholes who never taught the kids anything. Food for thought.
 
2013-01-06 02:23:35 PM  
America does NOT have an education problem. America has a poverty problem.... when you compare our scores to those of other countries and control for poverty we do very well.
 
2013-01-06 02:24:13 PM  

Bontesla: Dafatone: RexTalionis: The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.

This.

The current climate of hunting down "bad" teachers is part of the problem. The focus should be in teacher training and improving teacher performance. We need teacher-positive solutions.

And what sort of training do you propose for teachers refusing to teach?


What ever it is that Finland is doing.
 
2013-01-06 02:26:02 PM  
I'd be okay with removing the "unsatisfactory" if it was just replaced with "Rating Unavailable". Let the teachers explain the details of their particular situation. No automatic do-overs, but no automatic vilification, either.
 
2013-01-06 02:26:23 PM  

Dafatone: Bontesla: Dafatone: RexTalionis: The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.

This.

The current climate of hunting down "bad" teachers is part of the problem. The focus should be in teacher training and improving teacher performance. We need teacher-positive solutions.

And what sort of training do you propose for teachers refusing to teach?

Is that something that happens more than one in a thousand times?


They're quite a significant number of teachers that have been secretly filmed by students. These teachers have been filmed reading newspapers, playing on tablets and phones, and so on. School administrators actually have terms for these type of teachers. There's also a name for the practice of moving these teachers from one district to another. It's so common, they've named it.
 
2013-01-06 02:27:47 PM  

Brick-House: This...


Plus this...


Equal this...


What is that graph meant to represent?
 
2013-01-06 02:29:01 PM  
Interesting idea!

img.timeinc.net
 
2013-01-06 02:29:33 PM  

Alphakronik: I have a better idea. Lets just give them guns and see how the problem works itself out.


I like your thinking, but I don't think gladiator games are the way to go.
 
2013-01-06 02:30:32 PM  

titwrench: Brick-House: This...


Plus this...


Equal this...

What is that graph meant to represent?


Graduation Rates. Sorry, my bad.
 
2013-01-06 02:31:45 PM  

RexTalionis: The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.


I don't think NYC rates teachers on student scores. If they did it would be much easier to normalize their performance.
 
2013-01-06 02:32:26 PM  
and when I become dictator, I plan to do away with Public Education and privatize it giving all families vouchers. Competition will fix this -- nothing else.
 
2013-01-06 02:36:07 PM  
Cool. Sandy Hook is a month behind us, and we can go back to teacher/teacher's union bashing again!
 
2013-01-06 02:36:12 PM  

Wulfman: 8Fingers:

What's with the gender specific crap? Even I know that in business, when stating policy you keep it gender-neutral. Maybe these powers that be are as much a part of the problem and anyone else.

[blogs.courant.com image 400x279]
source


Yes, I get that. It's pretty much common knowledge that most teachers are female. Nothing new about that. You missed the point I was making.
 
2013-01-06 02:39:01 PM  

Bontesla: Dafatone: Bontesla: Dafatone: RexTalionis: The teacher rating system is intrinsically flawed. Teachers who tend to get "unsatisfactory" ratings are also the teachers who work with children from poorly-served schools or have special needs or have a lot of students who are new immigrants. The teachers who get satisfactory ratings tend to work with wealthier-better off students who all speak English.

This.

The current climate of hunting down "bad" teachers is part of the problem. The focus should be in teacher training and improving teacher performance. We need teacher-positive solutions.

And what sort of training do you propose for teachers refusing to teach?

Is that something that happens more than one in a thousand times?

They're quite a significant number of teachers that have been secretly filmed by students. These teachers have been filmed reading newspapers, playing on tablets and phones, and so on. School administrators actually have terms for these type of teachers. There's also a name for the practice of moving these teachers from one district to another. It's so common, they've named it.


Well, as long as there's "quite a significant number." That's totally a specific amount that means something. There's no possible way to argue with that.

Also, "so common, they've named it?" Great. What's the name?
 
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