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(Daily Mail)   The flu tsunami has hit America. Open your mouth wide for the doctor and see if you're infected. If you were not vaccinated... well then, Buh bye   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line 284
    More: Scary, American Public Health Association, Children's Hospital Boston, sore throats, myalgias, Harvard Medical School, flu, NBC News, infections  
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20010 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jan 2013 at 7:22 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-05 09:45:08 PM

BillyRayBob: These are the first three comments in this thread that admit to getting the Flu shot:

Wife and I are battling it now. We and the kids all got our shots as usual. Its not as bad as without the shots but its still noticeable. Local doctors are telling us the shot isn't protecting well against this year's Influenza A strain and that its bringing in tons more people than usual, even those vaccinated.

I have it now. Fever, aches, congestion, general misery. On day 2 alone. Husband, who NEVER gets sick for more than a day, has had it for a week and is just coming out of it. We and kids got flu shots, to boot.

I had something awful in mid-December as well. I had the flu shot, but only a few days before this happened, so I don't know if it was in full force yet, but I was quite ill thank you very much.

These people had the Flu Shot and got the Flu. But it had to be a fluke, right? GAAAA! Sheep to the slaughter.

I had both the Oral and Injection Polio Vaccines. And STILL GOT POLIO. But I don't have the Flu. EVAR!


Or it could be the fact that you don't know what you're talking about, and that the flu shot doesn't make you immune to the flu below herd immunity levels, rather it decreases the severity and length of illness, and the chances of getting it.

Vaccine failure and failure of uptake are real phenomenons, and challenges that researchers face in developing yearly vaccines.
 
2013-01-05 09:45:40 PM

BronyMedic: Amos Quito: Vaccine makers are legally immune to lawsuits.

So no matter how many get sick and/or suffer bad reactions, at least SOMEONE will have immunity, right?

Do you actually read the stuff you post, or do you just link it. I think you did the later. Because that's not actually true.

FTFA: Since the 1980s, the government has protected vaccine makers against lawsuits over the use of childhood vaccines. Instead, a federal court handles claims and decides who will be paid from a special fund.

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Court was set up in the 1980s to screen claims of vaccine injury for legitimacy and ensure that children who were legitimately injured by a vaccine side effect recieve fair compensation. The level of scrutany and legitimacy/acceptance by science at large for scientific and medical evidence is FAR less than an actual legal court would require, and it's far easier to win a verdict there than in a civil trial. However, several law firms have filed massive class action lawsuits against vaccine manufacturers outside of this, in direct violation of your claim, since then. Most have been claims that their child's autism was caused by a vaccine or adjuvant, which is in direct contradiction to all existing research on the topic.

So yes. People like you, with misinformed and ill-researched opinions and baseless fear mongering ARE to blame for poor vaccine uptake in the United States.



There are 300 million Americans.

40% of these (120 million) have had "the jab", and this "protected" population subset represents 25% of all flu cases confirmed so far this year.

Am I "to blame" for these cases?

Should I feel bad?
 
2013-01-05 09:46:21 PM

AbiNormal: Got the flu 26 years ago and it very nearly killed me. Haven't had to worry about a flu shot since; haven't even had a cold since.


Most people get a bad cold and think it's the flu. They're wrong. I had the first recorded case of influenza-A in Libby, Montana. At first I was sure it would kill me. Then I was afraid it wouldn't. I haven't had a flu shot since. If that farker can't kill me, nothing can. I haven't had more than the sniffles since.
 
2013-01-05 09:49:33 PM

jaytkay: "I got vaccinated once, but I still got a cold. VACCINES DO NOT WORK!!"

That's what I'm hearing from my genius acquaintances.

/ The ones who also discovered their severe "gluten allergy" at age 40


THIS
 
2013-01-05 09:50:24 PM
Flu shots are a scam.
 
2013-01-05 09:54:04 PM
The only people sure to be immune from the flu are elementary schoolteachers. After 20 years of getting breathed on, sneezed on, and puked on by countless hordes of little brats, they are immune to anything. I know at least a dozen, and they are NEVER ill. They'll be the only ones to survive if we're attacked by a biowarfare agent. In fact, if you know a grade school teacher and she/he is sick with flu, stay far away and get your shots, because they've got some kind of superbug that's bound to kill you if you get it.
 
2013-01-05 09:55:37 PM

Somacandra: Wife and I are battling it now. We and the kids all got our shots as usual. Its not as bad as without the shots but its still noticeable. Local doctors are telling us the shot isn't protecting well against this year's  Influenza A strain and that its bringing in tons more people than usual, even those vaccinated.


That's what I'm hearing from healthcare professionals where I live...that the vaccination wasn't effective with the strain that is going around. Two elderly folks in my hometown have died in the past couple of weeks. Sad.
 
2013-01-05 09:58:10 PM
I'm amused by the people saying they have the flu for a day or two because they had a clogged nose or coughing up stuff. That's not the flu and you are a moron. My mom is just getting over it. Had it for 4 weeks now. Was in bed for 3 weeks, a couple visits to ER with 103 temp. Was getting worried a little since she is generally unhealthy and almost 60 now.
 
2013-01-05 10:00:38 PM

Amos Quito: Snausages75: Amos Quito: Snausages75: As the daughter of a woman who had a lung removed in March and just finished her 9th round of chemo and six weeks of daily radiation, I am not getting a kick out of this thread.


All that from the FLU???

Damn.

Very amusing.


Hey, no offense. You just worded your post in a way that made it sound like a warning, rather than a plea.

Lost my mom (many years ago) to brain cancer.

Actually, the brain cancer didn't kill her - it was a brain INFECTION caused by the farking biopsy to test for cancer.

Not that she wouldn't have died anyway - we all do eventually.

Right?


Sorry about your mom. No one should ever have to watch their parent suffer like that.
 
jlt
2013-01-05 10:00:47 PM

Gyrfalcon: The only people sure to be immune from the flu are elementary schoolteachers. After 20 years of getting breathed on, sneezed on, and puked on by countless hordes of little brats, they are immune to anything. I know at least a dozen, and they are NEVER ill. They'll be the only ones to survive if we're attacked by a biowarfare agent. In fact, if you know a grade school teacher and she/he is sick with flu, stay far away and get your shots, because they've got some kind of superbug that's bound to kill you if you get it.


Yes yes a thousand times yes. I can't believe the awful germs my daughter shared when she was in daycare...strep, the flu, pink eye, hand foot and mouth, random awful diarrhea inducing viruses... now that she is in regular school she never gets sick. And neither do I.
 
2013-01-05 10:02:39 PM
127 million vaccinations have been distributed from the 15 million produced

Die of the flu, lazy sloppy incompetent excuses for journalists.
 
2013-01-05 10:02:51 PM
Got the shot. Got a strain of the flu a few months later, I'm guessing one of the strains that this years shot didn't cover. Have an autoimmune disease so it took me a full five weeks of symptoms to recover. Am now recovered, by which I mean I'm not running a fever or having intense aches anymore, but my lymph nodes are still swollen and I still have mild respiratory symptoms.

Hopefully this is the only time I'll catch it this winter.

/so glad I work from home and could still do my job, for the most part, while fighting off the death flu
//said death flu triggered a 7 day long migraine though, which was pretty unpleasant
 
2013-01-05 10:02:52 PM

Notabunny: AbiNormal: Got the flu 26 years ago and it very nearly killed me. Haven't had to worry about a flu shot since; haven't even had a cold since.

Most people get a bad cold and think it's the flu. They're wrong. I had the first recorded case of influenza-A in Libby, Montana. At first I was sure it would kill me. Then I was afraid it wouldn't. I haven't had a flu shot since. If that farker can't kill me, nothing can. I haven't had more than the sniffles since.


Behold the dreaded and infamous "hipster" strain of influenza.
 
2013-01-05 10:03:11 PM

oukewldave: I'm amused by the people saying they have the flu for a day or two because they had a clogged nose or coughing up stuff. That's not the flu and you are a moron. My mom is just getting over it. Had it for 4 weeks now. Was in bed for 3 weeks, a couple visits to ER with 103 temp. Was getting worried a little since she is generally unhealthy and almost 60 now.



Whatever it is, it's going around, and it's getting worse.
 
2013-01-05 10:08:09 PM
So 2200 victims from a population of 310 MILLION is a " tsunami"??!! Subby is a tool of the major media.

Look, it's sad that anyone dies. But with so many people someone is always dying. Don't change your life because of it.
 
2013-01-05 10:08:34 PM
Get a big tall glass, fill half way with whiskey
fill the rest with boiling hot water
squeeze half of a lemon add the juice
drop in the whole other half of the lemon

/no microbe known to man stands a chance
 
2013-01-05 10:10:26 PM

Amos Quito: BronyMedic: Amos Quito: Vaccine makers are legally immune to lawsuits.

So no matter how many get sick and/or suffer bad reactions, at least SOMEONE will have immunity, right?

Do you actually read the stuff you post, or do you just link it. I think you did the later. Because that's not actually true.

FTFA: Since the 1980s, the government has protected vaccine makers against lawsuits over the use of childhood vaccines. Instead, a federal court handles claims and decides who will be paid from a special fund.

The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Court was set up in the 1980s to screen claims of vaccine injury for legitimacy and ensure that children who were legitimately injured by a vaccine side effect recieve fair compensation. The level of scrutany and legitimacy/acceptance by science at large for scientific and medical evidence is FAR less than an actual legal court would require, and it's far easier to win a verdict there than in a civil trial. However, several law firms have filed massive class action lawsuits against vaccine manufacturers outside of this, in direct violation of your claim, since then. Most have been claims that their child's autism was caused by a vaccine or adjuvant, which is in direct contradiction to all existing research on the topic.

So yes. People like you, with misinformed and ill-researched opinions and baseless fear mongering ARE to blame for poor vaccine uptake in the United States.


There are 300 million Americans.

40% of these (120 million) have had "the jab", and this "protected" population subset represents 25% of all flu cases confirmed so far this year.

Am I "to blame" for these cases?

Should I feel bad?


The herd immunity rate for the seasonal flu is around 80% vaccine uptake in a given population. Anything below that and there is enough of a resevour for the virus to spread like wildfire. It's the reason, for example, hospital and healthcare workers are required to get a vaccine for their continued employment.

Yes. People LIKE YOU are to blame, and yes, you should feel bad. You come onto a website, spout off about something that you have no clue about what you're talking about, and people see that information and get scared. They stop making risk vs. benefit judgements, and start panicing about the autisms, or something similar that renowned Epidemiologist Jenny McCarthy, Indigo Child and pHD warned you about.
 
2013-01-05 10:11:23 PM
flu vaccines are a sham.
 
2013-01-05 10:14:08 PM

giftedmadness: flu vaccines are a sham.

Goodfella: Flu shots are a scam.


Alt-like typing detected.

fayinc.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-01-05 10:15:14 PM

Mentat: Already got it, survived.


Unpossible. I heard this was sure to be the strain that killed us all and kidnapped/impregnated our women in our absence.

/it's the flu.
//if you're not a immune-compromised person, you'll probably be fine.
 
2013-01-05 10:17:56 PM

Lsherm: AlwaysRightBoy: I hoping to catch the Norovirus  that's coming over from Europe.

I got Norovirus two years ago when it was going around Northern Virginia.  It's an illness so insidious I simultaneously threw up and shiat my pants in a Metro station and I had to be carried out on a gurney.

It is terrifying to be so sick you can't prevent yourself from shiatting your pants.  I prided myself up until that point that in my entire adult life, I had never vomited where I didn't want to, and I had never shiat my pants.  Then in one terrifying day, both records were shattered.  I felt fine in the morning and I was in the hospital that night.

I'd also like to eternally thank the group of teenagers who took pictures of me collapsed on the floor of the metro station, covered in puke, while helpfully pointing out "Dawg shiat himself!  Got shiat all over!"  That was helpful.  I really appreciate it.


one of the best baseball players of all time feels your pain
 
2013-01-05 10:20:41 PM
My list of "anti-vaccine moran/trolls" who show up in red is certainly seeing an increased prevalence...
 
2013-01-05 10:23:30 PM
Despite what I have read above, I used to get flu shots every year, and every year I would be sick for days after getting the shots. I stopped a few years back and take my chances.

When people close to me (family, co-workers) start getting sick, I start a regimen. When I brush my teeth in the morning and night I gargle, first with hydrogen peroxide then with mouth wash, killing the opportunistic anaerobic and aerobic bacteria in the back of the throat. Yes, I get sick, but is just general malaise with a light fever and aches, not the coughing sneezing crap that used to happen.

YMMV.
 
2013-01-05 10:28:26 PM
Vodak with orange juice has been my flu vaccine for years, and I can't remember the last time I caught the flu.
 
2013-01-05 10:28:36 PM

BronyMedic: There are 300 million Americans.

40% of these (120 million) have had "the jab", and this "protected" population subset represents 25% of all flu cases confirmed so far this year.

Am I "to blame" for these cases?

Should I feel bad?

The herd immunity rate for the seasonal flu is around 80% vaccine uptake in a given population. Anything below that and there is enough of a resevour for the virus to spread like wildfire. It's the reason, for example, hospital and healthcare workers are required to get a vaccine for their continued employment.

Yes. People LIKE YOU are to blame, and yes, you should feel bad.



So, you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong) that if some enlightened dictator could FORCE 100% (or at least 80%) of the US population to get "the jab", that the entire country would be completely and entirely immune from the flu, and that we could frolic about our parks, shopping malls and subways without a care in the world?

Is that what you're saying?
 
2013-01-05 10:29:20 PM

BlippityBleep: Vodak with orange juice has been my flu vaccine for years, and I can't remember the last time I caught the flu.


That might be more due to the vodka than your health, depending on quantity imbibed.
 
2013-01-05 10:30:52 PM

verbal_jizm: coco ebert: I got something in early December. Sore throat, cough, fatigue, headache that was bad for a week but lingered in some form or another for another two weeks or so. But I only had a slight fever a couple of days on and off. That wasn't the flu, right?

Nope. Flu gives you a higher fever, muscle aches, and LOTS of coughing. Most people who think they got the flu, didn't.


Flu symptoms vary wildly based on strain, the person, state of their immune system, and who knows what else.

There is no certain set of symptoms. I've had it mild. I've had it nearly kill me.
 
2013-01-05 10:31:03 PM

Occam's Disposable Razor: My list of "anti-vaccine moran/trolls" who show up in red is certainly seeing an increased prevalence...


www.fda.gov
Worship at the altar
 
2013-01-05 10:31:51 PM
The herd immunity rate for the seasonal flu is around 80% vaccine uptake in a given population. Anything below that and there is enough of a resevour for the virus to spread like wildfire. It's the reason, for example, hospital and healthcare workers are required to get a vaccine for their continued employment.

The problem is that a given flu vaccine doesn't cover all of the possible flu strains that could be present. It's forecasted similarly to hurricane season severity several months before the season starts. Thus, even if 100% of the people were vaccinated for a given set of strains, the herd immunity would be 0% if a different strain showed up.

I've been vaccinated for everything else you can possibly get in the western world (and a few exotics), but I've never gotten the flu vaccine. If there was a guarantee that the vaccine covered the strain(s) of the year, I definitely would get them every year.
 
2013-01-05 10:36:56 PM
I got the shot and have been fine. I've had many friends and family who didn't and they've been knocked out of commission for a week or more, plus 2 weeks of recuperation time when they don't feel great.

If I'm 75% less likely to get the flu, I think those odds are good enough.
 
2013-01-05 10:40:23 PM
A second flu tsunami has just hit America!
 
2013-01-05 10:42:14 PM
My family got hit hard this year. I'm just getting over it. My son is just getting over it. My wife is just now getting it. All of us are vaccinated.

My 19 month old son had it bad. Fever up to 105 for about 5 days. Lost a lot of sleep worrying about him. Fever finally broke and now he's just a little stuffed up.

Everyone at my work is getting it.
 
2013-01-05 10:46:47 PM
I just started feeling a little bad around noon today. Am i going to die?
 
2013-01-05 10:46:57 PM

Ambivalence: St_Francis_P: Meh. I'm kicking it old-school, using my immune system. Hasn't failed yet.

I haven't caught flu in 25 years. My immune system is great on flu.

Sinus infections....not so much but better in recent years.


Get yourself a humidifier. I used to get a bunch of sinus infections every winter. No more. Your snot is your first line of defense against infection but it only works when wet.
 
2013-01-05 10:46:57 PM

Ishidan: Baby can you dig your man?


steven king qoutes?

oh no you dint!
 
2013-01-05 10:48:26 PM

Gilligann: My family got hit hard this year. I'm just getting over it. My son is just getting over it. My wife is just now getting it. All of us are vaccinated.

My 19 month old son had it bad. Fever up to 105 for about 5 days. Lost a lot of sleep worrying about him. Fever finally broke and now he's just a little stuffed up.

Everyone at my work is getting it.



Sorry to hear of your suffering.

Looks like the "herd immunity" of the "given population" of your particular "herd" didn't work out to well this time.


I've been told that your suffering is all my fault. Sorry.

Get well soon, and pray for a benevolent dictator who will force us all to live in flu-free paradise.

/Or else
 
2013-01-05 10:50:14 PM
I already got the flu and overcame that shiat so you dead mofos can kiss my ass!

\civilization is collapsing
 
2013-01-05 10:51:09 PM

Mark Ratner: Lsherm: AlwaysRightBoy: I hoping to catch the Norovirus  that's coming over from Europe.

I got Norovirus two years ago when it was going around Northern Virginia.  It's an illness so insidious I simultaneously threw up and shiat my pants in a Metro station and I had to be carried out on a gurney.

It is terrifying to be so sick you can't prevent yourself from shiatting your pants.  I prided myself up until that point that in my entire adult life, I had never vomited where I didn't want to, and I had never shiat my pants.  Then in one terrifying day, both records were shattered.  I felt fine in the morning and I was in the hospital that night.

I'd also like to eternally thank the group of teenagers who took pictures of me collapsed on the floor of the metro station, covered in puke, while helpfully pointing out "Dawg shiat himself!  Got shiat all over!"  That was helpful.  I really appreciate it.

Glad you're feeling better and didn't die, but you just made me, and I'm sure dozens of other farkers laugh out loud, so it was kinda worth it. Well done.


Seconded. Laughed so hard the wife wanted to know what was so damn funny.
 
2013-01-05 10:52:49 PM
BronyMedic. Big Pharma called and says your check is in the mail.
/you're not a Doctor, you just play one on TV
/ lighten up. This is FARK, Not WebMD.
 
2013-01-05 10:54:51 PM
I'm sick with a sinus infection. It's what I typically get. I don't think I've ever had the flu, at least not in recent memory. Always sinus infections.


/have allergies
 
2013-01-05 10:59:09 PM

snarketyfarker: I don't know what I had, exactly, but three weeks ago, I went to two parties in two nights, one at my friends forge, so I was breathing in metal soot all night. Then I worked my usual fifteen hour Sunday on the hot/grill side of my line. Drank copiously both nights as well (fell off the wagon some time ago). Woke up Monday at 9 am and felt like I had a bad cold, bronchia irritated, sinuses completely stuffed up, no voice to speak of, and generally felt shiatty. Called in sick. By 6 pm I had a 103 degree fever, and that was *with* taking Nyquil, and drinking hot tea. Had that fever for two days. Thought it broke. Jennifer took my temperature, and I was @ 100.9. I was down for a week, and three weeks later I can still feel a tickle in my bronchia. My bar manager, who shared this with me in the first place, ended up with pneumonia.

Whatever is going around Seattle is a serious strain and its hitting people hard.


Yes.
 
2013-01-05 10:59:10 PM

Somacandra: clownyclownzomby: developed a bad case of gout in my right ankle

Tried daily guanefesin and lemonade/citrate supplements? Works well to keep my UA levels down, usually.


Normally have a glass of tart cherry juice and cider vinegar each morning.  Got behind when I was sick.  My girlfriend brought me some of what you suggested.....thanks! Hope it helps in any amount.  I'm miserable. At least I didn't soil myself like Lsherm. Poor bastard.
 
2013-01-05 11:00:06 PM

BronyMedic: giftedmadness: flu vaccines are a sham.
Goodfella: Flu shots are a scam.

Alt-like typing detected.

[fayinc.files.wordpress.com image 500x271]


My flu shot was free at the clinic where I volunteer. How is this a scam?
 
2013-01-05 11:05:17 PM

jaytkay: Felgraf: Is it a gluten alergy, or Celiacs?

No, celiacs is real.


www.startrek.com

Bloody right.
 
2013-01-05 11:07:12 PM
Sick: Thousands of people are going to doctors complaining of illness with a severe cough being the most widespread symptom

Then that is not the flu. What stupid reporting.

1. Cough - 19 per cent

2. Sore throat - 16 per cent

3. Fatigue - 15 per cent

4. Headache - 14 per cent

5. Body Ache - 10 per cent

6. Fever - 7 per cent.

It appears that a "cold" is what is sweeping america. Cough and sore throat are not flu symptoms. #s 3 thru 6 are flu symptoms.
 
2013-01-05 11:07:31 PM

jaytkay: "I got vaccinated once, but I still got a cold. VACCINES DO NOT WORK!!"

That's what I'm hearing from my genius acquaintances.

/ The ones who also discovered their severe "gluten allergy" at age 40


Yea I love that too. People telling me they have the flu, then one day later I see them at work. You know, functional and not shivering and sweating their ass off and so achey they can hardly move. Swearing up and down they'll NEVER get a flu shot again! I know that people can be asymptomatic or have lesser symptoms- but if these people are mistaking a cold for the flu and then deciding not to get the shot, they are going to be *really* unhappy when they actually get sick.

I have never had the flu. The worst I've ever had was Strep and it was not pleasant. I get a flu shot every year. If you have ever known someone who got the flu and then got pneumonia you would realize how the flu kills people and how much you do not want pneumonia.

Also, could they just do ONE Dateline or something about how the immune system actually works?
 
2013-01-05 11:09:59 PM
Right before Christmas break this ripped through the schools here. We're a tiny little district, but had close to 100 kids out on several consecutive days, with 20+ sent home in a day. And yeah, a bunch o' kids ended up with pneumonia.

It's a bad one.
 
2013-01-05 11:13:36 PM
Roughly three-fourths of people with the flu said they did not get vaccinations this year

Useless information unless we know what % got vaccinated.

If only 25% of people got vaccinated, and 25% of those with flu got the vaccine, then it doesn't say much for the vaccine.

i'm assuming the vac rate is higher than that, but it would be nice to have that info to be able to make some sense of the numbers they do give.

the CDC reports vaccine's were effective four about 60 percent for all age groups combined.

what in the hell, Daily Fail?
 
2013-01-05 11:21:28 PM

Gyrfalcon: The only people sure to be immune from the flu are elementary schoolteachers. After 20 years of getting breathed on, sneezed on, and puked on by countless hordes of little brats, they are immune to anything. I know at least a dozen, and they are NEVER ill. They'll be the only ones to survive if we're attacked by a biowarfare agent. In fact, if you know a grade school teacher and she/he is sick with flu, stay far away and get your shots, because they've got some kind of superbug that's bound to kill you if you get it.


Yep, my friends girlfriend is a 3rd grade teacher. I told her she should sell her blood for 1000/pint due to the antibodies in it.
 
2013-01-05 11:23:08 PM
I won't say what I have at the moment is the flu. I had the honest-to-dog ManBirdPig Flu when it went around and I'm quite aware of the difference between cold and flu--I'll note that was the first true flu I'd had since I was 4, and it's about the only stuff I run proper fevers with.

That said...whatever the hell plague I DO have, let's just say I want to have a Very Friendly Talk with the Patient Zero in question re the wisdom of a) coming sick to friendly weekend get-togethers and b) bringing their kids who also seemed to have the plague. :P

(Definitely viral, pretty much our entire circle of friends has gone into milder-than-flu fevers but definite sinus infections and/or bronchitis, and I've pretty much spent the past week coughing up gallons of phlegm and being thrown into a minor asthmatic crisis thanks to said crud--fortunately no incontinence, but definite "coughing till I spew" stuff that has had the family cats looking at me in sympathy because I've been bringing up my own equivalents of hairballs. The visit to the doctor resulted in me being placed on more steroidal medications than the entire WWE roster circa 1988, and THAT is just keeping me able to breathe. :P)

And apparently between the time I went to the doc and the SO went to the doc, half the state seems to have got it...making it hard for the SO to get in to even SEE a doc (had to end up going to acute care clinic, I stayed home because I know damn well they'd be putting my arse on a nebuliser...rather hoping I don't have to go BACK, either.

Don't know what this little gift from Nurgle is but he can have it the hell BACK (I prefer Slaanesh anyways, sie's more fun :D)
 
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