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(NBC News)   Four people dead in hostage situation/shootout in Aurora, CO. Sadly, this is NOT a repeat   (usnews.nbcnews.com) divider line 639
    More: Sad, morning, hostage situation, NBC News, KUSA, hostages  
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12681 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jan 2013 at 4:01 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-05 04:35:32 PM  

tblax: I wonder if he used guns purchased legally, like Holmes or Lanza.


Adam Lanza did not purchase any firearms legally.
 
2013-01-05 04:36:10 PM  

Dimensio: tblax: I wonder if he used guns purchased legally, like Holmes or Lanza.

Adam Lanza did not purchase any firearms legally.


I didn't say he did. I said he used guns purchased legally.
 
2013-01-05 04:36:54 PM  
The first one or two threads I made popcorn.Now? Not even worth peanuts.
The same old rehtoric and non-viable solutions.
It's going to happen,one way or the other.Always has and always will.
 
2013-01-05 04:37:03 PM  
Nice to see that, as usual, Fark knows exactly what happened and what should be done to solve the problem, even before the police.

We should hire this shiat out.
 
2013-01-05 04:37:11 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: skinink: The NRA solution for this type of shooting is for the Federal government to post armed guards in every house.

My house has an armed guard. We haven't had a single problem.


I leave my doors unlocked, my car unlocked, and my guns are nowhere near where I sleep.

I haven't had a single problem.

Shouldn't you have THREE armed guards? You know, for when one has to take a piss, sleep, eat?
 
2013-01-05 04:37:38 PM  

aearra: Another day in america. Another mass murder. Another shoot out. Another day full of sound and fury signifying nothing as america does nothing to solve the situation but whine. Another day where nobody outside of the us cares.


They have their own problems:

MEXICO: "Mexico registered 27,199 murders in 2011, or 24 per 100,000 people"

USA: All homicides (2011): 16,799, or 5.5 per 100,000 population

Private ownership of firearms is verboten in Mexico, yet their murder rate is FOUR TIMES that of the US, and their rates are climbing, while ares have fallen to the lowest level in four decades.

Go figure.
 
2013-01-05 04:38:02 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: 0 / 10. Who said anything about having it right at the table. Moron.


Well, you seemed to have assumed that him having the gun would have somehow saved him, so the options for that scenario are
A) He has the gun at the table with him (in your hypothetical scenario)

B) This man in your hypothetical scenario is, in fact,The Flash, or has precognitive abilities that allow you to guarantee that the man is able to get to the gun, get back to his family, and shoot the man before anyone gets shot.
 
2013-01-05 04:38:26 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: LordJiro: Bit'O'Gristle: Story 1.

1. family is at home having dinner
2. Gunman comes in and threatens to kill everyone.
3. No way to defend yourself, due to no guns in the house
4. One member of the family gets away, alerting police
5. gunman sees police, kills everyone in the house like sheep
6. cops charge in and gun the shooter until he dies from it.

story 2.

1. family is at home having dinner
2. gunman comes in and threatens to kill everyone
3. Dad goes for his gun and gets gunned down while he's getting it from wherever he keeps it, because nobody has their farking gun at the farking dinner table unless they, themselves, are mentally ill.
4. Gunman is more alert, so nobody escapes to get the police.
5. Eventually, he kills them all like sheep.
6. And gets away.

FTFY.

0 / 10. Who said anything about having it right at the table. Moron.


You realize it's more likely Dad is the one who took the hostages in the first place, right?
 
2013-01-05 04:38:32 PM  

sweet-daddy-2: The first one or two threads I made popcorn.Now? Not even worth peanuts.
The same old rehtoric and non-viable solutions.
It's going to happen,one way or the other.Always has and always will.


Truly, the American answer to this issue. Nothing can be done. Why even try?
 
2013-01-05 04:39:13 PM  

Amos Quito: Private ownership of firearms is verboten in Mexico, yet their murder rate is FOUR TIMES that of the US, and their rates are climbing, while ares have fallen to the lowest level in four decades.

Go figure.



We happily supply Mexico with guns. They learned it from us.
 
2013-01-05 04:39:56 PM  

tblax: I didn't say he did. I said he used guns purchased legally.


If that's the standard, then ALL guns were purchased legally. Every gun the Nazis used to kill Jews was procured or purchased legally. Every gun ever used by the police to kill innocent, unarmed people has been purchased legally. Every gun the US Marshals and FBI used at Ruby Ridge was purchased legally.

BTW, every length of rope used to hand runaway slaves, lynch black people, etc. was all purchased legally.

What's your point?
 
2013-01-05 04:40:57 PM  

mediablitz: We happily supply Mexico with guns. They learned it from us.


"'We" do? Who is 'we', and how are 'we' supplying them with Russian and Chinese full auto AK rifles?
 
2013-01-05 04:40:59 PM  
In before "Arming more people with guns would of prevented this tragedy"

/Okay... i'm late to the party.... way way too late.
 
2013-01-05 04:41:19 PM  

tblax: JesseL: vudutek: Grand_Moff_Joseph: But god forbid we talk about mental health issues...that would be evil.

Please, explain. Why have these gun-related issues become a discussion ONLY about mental health? Why not discuss mental health programs AND better regulation of guns? And, if mental health is SO important, why are mental health programs being cut to the bone by just about every governmental agency around?

Evil is thinking that more guns is the answer. Evil is thinking that bulletproof clothing for schoolkids is the answer.

Evil is thinking that you can make people safer by taking away their basic freedoms.

Are you going to make it harder for everyone to get instant cold packs, household cleaning products, model airplane fuel, castor beans, or the million other everyday things someone could use to kill a lot of people too?

No, that would be ridiculous, of course. The difference is only one of those things was specifically designed to kill people, the rest weren't


Unfortunately, killing people is sometime still a valid need in this world.

And does the original intent of something really matter if someone turns it into a weapon and people end up dead anyway? In what way does the mental state of the original creator change anything?
 
2013-01-05 04:41:41 PM  

MorePeasPlease: GAT_00: I'm sure glad this still isn't time to talk about guns.

Let's talk about them on Fark-that'll be productive!


Why not? Trolls aside, behind every Fark handle is a real person engaging in a real conversation even if it is taking place online. At least we're willing to have the conversation, even if the media and politicians won't.
 
2013-01-05 04:41:45 PM  

pedrop357: BTW, every length of rope used to handdhang runaway slaves, lynch black people, etc. was all purchased legally.

 
2013-01-05 04:41:47 PM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Story 1.

1. family is at home having dinner
2. Gunman comes in and threatens to kill everyone.
3. No way to defend yourself, due to no guns in the house
4. One member of the family gets away, alerting police
5. gunman sees police, kills everyone in the house like sheep
6. cops charge in and gun the shooter until he dies from it.

story 2.

1. family is at home having dinner
2. gunman comes in and threatens to kill everyone
3. Dad goes for his gun and blows the gunmans head off
4 Dad calls the cops, and they show up with the meat wagon.
5. Family finishes dinner.


/ya ya, i know its not that clear cut, and even with a gun or guns in the house, you still have a chance at getting killed. But...at least you would have a chance at defending your family. And its a better chance than having nothing and just getting shot like a dog.


Sadly, most of the time it's Dad shooting up his family, not some stranger.
 
2013-01-05 04:42:18 PM  
In before Aspergers...
 
2013-01-05 04:42:50 PM  

tblax: I didn't say he did. I said he used guns purchased legally.


Then that would apply to any guns that weren't either stolen from the factory or manufactured by a non-licensed manufacturer, thus making the measure all-but pointless. :-|
 
2013-01-05 04:42:51 PM  

pedrop357: mediablitz: We happily supply Mexico with guns. They learned it from us.

"'We" do? Who is 'we', and how are 'we' supplying them with Russian and Chinese full auto AK rifles?


We meaning our ATFE and DOJ. Maybe you should learn a little bit before being willfully retarded.
 
2013-01-05 04:42:56 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: But god forbid we talk about mental health issues...that would be evil.


http://www.fark.com/comments/7519459 here we have everyone suffering from multiple personality disorder.
 
2013-01-05 04:43:01 PM  
Mental health and education are always the first to be chopped from the bootstrappy, deficit-reducing types in Government.

Once that stops and we're able to have a rational discussion about gun culture (not necessary control, but CULTURE), will any intelligent thought come out of this.
 
2013-01-05 04:43:08 PM  

tblax: Dimensio: tblax: I wonder if he used guns purchased legally, like Holmes or Lanza.

Adam Lanza did not purchase any firearms legally.

I didn't say he did. I said he used guns purchased legally.


Well, most are. Because having them stolen from the warehouse of gun shop is bad business.
 
2013-01-05 04:43:37 PM  

pedrop357: tblax: I didn't say he did. I said he used guns purchased legally.

If that's the standard, then ALL guns were purchased legally. Every gun the Nazis used to kill Jews was procured or purchased legally. Every gun ever used by the police to kill innocent, unarmed people has been purchased legally. Every gun the US Marshals and FBI used at Ruby Ridge was purchased legally.

BTW, every length of rope used to hand runaway slaves, lynch black people, etc. was all purchased legally.

What's your point?


I believe the point is the day before Adam went to school Nancy Lanza was one of millions of responsible gun owners who shouldn't be punished for the crimes of a few nuts.
 
2013-01-05 04:44:34 PM  

JesseL: And does the original intent of something really matter if someone turns it into a weapon and people end up dead anyway? In what way does the mental state of the original creator change anything?


That's the thing they never admit, it doesn't. It makes them happier to know that a gun wasn't used, because gun control is an end unto itself for them.

A person who barricades some doors and lights a place on fire doesn't count in their world because he didn't use a gun. Matches, gasoline, etc. aren't 'intended' for that use, and if you follow left wing politics, you know that intentions are more important then methods or actions.
 
2013-01-05 04:46:04 PM  

vpb: Grand_Moff_Joseph: But god forbid we talk about mental health issues...that would be evil.

Like the creepy attraction to weapons that psychos have?


Or maybe something is wrong withe people of Aurora CO?

You really think you are going to be able to create an effective mental health treatment program for a very diverse population of 315 million? This like all other health care is one of those issues best addressed at the state and local level.
 
2013-01-05 04:46:40 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: I believe the point is the day before Adam went to school Nancy Lanza was one of millions of responsible gun owners who shouldn't be punished for the crimes of a few nuts.


If we're going to start cracking down on responsible and/or law abiding gun owners because someone might kill them and misuses their guns, are we also going to disarm the police when it happens to them?
 
2013-01-05 04:46:57 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: I believe the point is the day before Adam went to school Nancy Lanza was one of millions of responsible gun owners who shouldn't be punished for the crimes of a few nuts.


Sounds like Nancy should have pulled the trigger, as it were, on getting her son committed a bit earlier.
 
2013-01-05 04:47:46 PM  
We need to ban liberal cities. Far too many cities run by liberals have high murder rates.
 
2013-01-05 04:47:50 PM  

here to help: So the gun nuts new war cry is "BUT WE SHOULDZ BE LOOKING INTO MENTAL HEALTH!!1" and acting as if that was somehow never suggested by the gun control advocates before?

Wow... just... wow.


When was that? The early '80s when Reagan and Brady were shot by a crazy person and more hospitals were closed down? Bang up job the Brady people did there.
 
2013-01-05 04:48:45 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: I wonder what the liberal fascists will try to ban this time. They're already working on 2nd amendment and also the 1st with "violent" video games. How about the 3rd this time? You know, if more soldiers could commandeer homes, tragedies like this wouldn't happen as often. Think of the children and ban the 3rd amendment! No tragedy should remain unexploited!


I would ban people who believe that fascists can be liberals. Obviously too dim to think on their own.
 
2013-01-05 04:49:06 PM  

pedrop357: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: I believe the point is the day before Adam went to school Nancy Lanza was one of millions of responsible gun owners who shouldn't be punished for the crimes of a few nuts.

If we're going to start cracking down on responsible and/or law abiding gun owners because someone might kill them and misuses their guns, are we also going to disarm the police when it happens to them?


Yeah, okay. Sure, why not?
 
2013-01-05 04:49:08 PM  

mediablitz: Amos Quito: Private ownership of firearms is verboten in Mexico, yet their murder rate is FOUR TIMES that of the US, and their rates are climbing, while ares have fallen to the lowest level in four decades.

Go figure.


We happily supply Mexico with guns. They learned it from us.



Well, that was a fast and furious reply.

Hint: The fact that DRUGS ARE ILLEGAL is the PRIMARY cause for most murders in BOTH countries.
 
2013-01-05 04:49:14 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: Grand_Moff_Joseph: But god forbid we talk about mental health issues...that would be evil.

Not that mental health isn't an important issue, but what part of that article gave you any inclination as to the shooter's frame of mind? Sure, you are free to guess about it all you want, but there doesn't appear to be any indication that the shooter was anything more than a criminal as yet.


Anyone who considers shooting hostages an option under any circumstances is mentally ill you farking moron.
 
2013-01-05 04:49:48 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: pedrop357: tblax: I didn't say he did. I said he used guns purchased legally.

If that's the standard, then ALL guns were purchased legally. Every gun the Nazis used to kill Jews was procured or purchased legally. Every gun ever used by the police to kill innocent, unarmed people has been purchased legally. Every gun the US Marshals and FBI used at Ruby Ridge was purchased legally.

BTW, every length of rope used to hand runaway slaves, lynch black people, etc. was all purchased legally.

What's your point?

I believe the point is the day before Adam went to school Nancy Lanza was one of millions of responsible gun owners who shouldn't be punished for the crimes of a few nuts.


So we should remove any means a person might have to potentially have someone else kill them, steal it, and then commit a crime?

Seriously - you offer nothing of value to the debate.
 
2013-01-05 04:50:00 PM  

pedrop357: That's the thing they never admit, it doesn't. It makes them happier to know that a gun wasn't used, because gun control is an end unto itself for them.


Damned straight.

Those people died FREE!

Free, before Fartbama and the UN could take away all their guns.
 
2013-01-05 04:50:55 PM  
Headlines you never see:
"Crazed lunatic with a baseball bat holds family hostage, 4 dead, including batsman".

Crazy people will always be crazy, sometimes people just snap, regardless of access to mental health services. We do not have to let them get their hands on firearms.
 
2013-01-05 04:50:57 PM  

GAT_00: I'm sure glad this still isn't time to talk about guns.


Such a dumb thing to keep repeating. You chickheads haven't shut your traps for years now.
 
2013-01-05 04:50:59 PM  

pedrop357: tblax: I didn't say he did. I said he used guns purchased legally.

If that's the standard, then ALL guns were purchased legally. Every gun the Nazis used to kill Jews was procured or purchased legally. Every gun ever used by the police to kill innocent, unarmed people has been purchased legally. Every gun the US Marshals and FBI used at Ruby Ridge was purchased legally.

BTW, every length of rope used to hand runaway slaves, lynch black people, etc. was all purchased legally.

What's your point?


But rope isn't meant to kill people, so that makes it all better.
 
2013-01-05 04:51:40 PM  

aearra: Another day in america. Another mass murder. Another shoot out. Another day full of sound and fury signifying nothing as america does nothing to solve the situation but whine. Another day where nobody outside of the us cares.


another day where people let emotion overwhelm logic.
 
2013-01-05 04:52:16 PM  

Infernalist: You know what? fark it. If people are intent on pretending like guns aren't a problem and it's 'THE CRAZY PEOPLE ARE TO BLAME LOL', then we need to have a tragedy like this every goddamned day until people get tired of seeing dead people, or enough victims get pissed off enough to tar and feather the local NRA gun nuts in their respective communities.

Until then, BRING IT ON, BABY. Let's see how much blood America can take before she flinches.


Newsletter please.
 
2013-01-05 04:52:23 PM  

2wolves: WhoopAssWayne: I wonder what the liberal fascists will try to ban this time. They're already working on 2nd amendment and also the 1st with "violent" video games. How about the 3rd this time? You know, if more soldiers could commandeer homes, tragedies like this wouldn't happen as often. Think of the children and ban the 3rd amendment! No tragedy should remain unexploited!

I would ban people who believe that fascists can be liberals. Obviously too dim to think on their own.


That's why I like "statists". It encompasses tyranny from both ends of the left-right spectrum.
 
2013-01-05 04:52:24 PM  

aearra: Another day in america. Another mass murder. Another shoot out. Another day full of sound and fury signifying nothing as america does nothing to solve the situation but whine. Another day where nobody outside of the us cares.


Pretty much my thoughts as well.
I live in Denver and just realized this happened by going on Fark.
 
2013-01-05 04:52:56 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: Grand_Moff_Joseph: But god forbid we talk about mental health issues...that would be evil.

Not that mental health isn't an important issue, but what part of that article gave you any inclination as to the shooter's frame of mind? Sure, you are free to guess about it all you want, but there doesn't appear to be any indication that the shooter was anything more than a criminal as yet.


The fact that he killed 4 people seems to be a pretty solid clue to me. It seems to me that even "normal" criminals are averse to mass murder.

What is happening now is that there are more people who have no regard for their own lives and simply want to kill as many people as they can before they are taken out themselves. If such people are not classified as mentally ill, that term has absolutely no meaning.
 
2013-01-05 04:53:22 PM  
And here's the counter-article about someone shooting a home invader in self-defense. Of course no one can prove the person entering the premises would have killed anyone and a gun stopped them but that's how lopsided the argument is.

Woman shoots alleged home invader in Walton County
 
2013-01-05 04:54:08 PM  
If only those hostages had hostages...
 
2013-01-05 04:54:43 PM  

volodya: Clearly the answer to these situations is.....more guns!


I bet we'd get a resounding "Yes!" if we could ask the three victims who were shot to death.
 
2013-01-05 04:56:00 PM  
Interesting. Looks like the gunman was related to those who were killed.

So... the gun was already in the house? Yet another example of family killing family, courtesy of a gun for "protection"?
 
2013-01-05 04:56:10 PM  

jaytkay: Damned straight.

Those people died FREE!

Free, before Fartbama and the UN could take away all their guns.



They died at the hands of another. Gun control groups and all the concern trolls only care when it's a gun in the killer's hands. The fact that there are tens of millions of people who own hundreds of millions of guns, only tens of thousands of problems with those guns, areas with high gun ownership do not correspond to high crime with or without guns, AND our non-gun crime rate ALONE dwarfs most countries goes very far to suggest that it's not a gun availability problem driving our crime rate, it's a violence problem.

Banning and confiscating is about the the only way to make a dent in the small number of deaths by the very rare mass shooting. So, all guns to stop some of the 200 or so deaths in this year by mass killer. Now what about the other 8800 or so people killed by guns? You really think the criminals will just walk away or will hey just guns they managed to steal (look at Britain), knives, fire, etc.? If we shift a substantial number of deaths by gun to being deaths by something else, we may have saved lives.

Now, what about all the crime against people gun owners have stopped? How many more rapes, robberies, brutal beatings, home invasions, etc. are we willing to accept?

Focusing 'crime prevention' efforts on guns, or other tools, is short sighted, idiotic, distracting, and overall ineffective. Focus on the people doing it and why,
 
2013-01-05 04:56:50 PM  

stirfrybry: volodya: Clearly the answer to these situations is.....more guns!

I bet we'd get a resounding "Yes!" if we could ask the three victims who were shot to death.


Really? It looks like they were killed by a relative. Possibly by a gun already in the house. You think they wish the gun was there?
 
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