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(InfoWorld)   Microsoft's aching Windows 8 hangover. Get them a beer, would ya?   (infoworld.com) divider line 107
    More: Stupid, Microsoft, Windows, Michael Dell, Fujitsu, hangovers, web traffic  
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3350 clicks; posted to Business » on 05 Jan 2013 at 1:05 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-05 11:41:36 AM
Microsoft should have an iPad funeral.  Because that totally worked for the Windows Phone.

blogs.seattleweekly.com
 
2013-01-05 12:25:35 PM
Bwahahaha!
 
2013-01-05 01:11:09 PM
MS seems to really love pushing the crummiest ideas. We get a breath of sanity (XP, 7), then the derp (Vista, 8). With their logic and love for bizarre interfaces, next we'll see the steering wheel in cars replaced with a bust of Salvador Dali. The buttons for crosswalks will be replaced with lockable doorknobs. Your hot lover's bra will now be secured with an exaggeration of Clippy, complete with googly eyes.
 
2013-01-05 01:25:03 PM
Seems as good as place as any to ask the question "What the hell were they thinking with Windows 8?"

Seriously.  I, and most everyone that used it, loved Windows 7.  It was pretty intuitive, secure, and had a ridiculously low memory footprint (especially compared to that of Vista).  I'm using it right now, and was mildly intrigued by what they were going to pull out for their next version.  Like most geeks, I am well aware of the idiotic tendency for MS to alternate good and bad versions of Windows, but hoped they would break the cycle.

Then I heard the CEO's speech about how Microsoft was no longer a software company, but a device and app company.  Followed that with toying with a new Windows 8 system at the store that, as far as I could tell, had NO start button, NO explorer option, and not even a traditional desktop we are used to since version 3.0.  Just scrolling apps across a laptop screen.

Microsoft, if you want to put a mobile, app-based operating system on something, do that for your tablets.  I expect it there.  I shouldn't have to fight against your operating system to get it to do what I want.  The reason I use Windows is because I have always felt like it did what I wanted, while Apple's Mac OS always felt like it was telling me what I could and could not do.  But Windows 8 made OSx look like freaking Linux by comparison.

If this direction is where they are going, I think this Windows loyalist just may switch sides over to Apple next time around.
 
2013-01-05 01:35:52 PM

Shadowknight: Seems as good as place as any to ask the question "What the hell were they thinking with Windows 8?"


The thing is, you take away that Metro Start menu, Win8 is essentially a Win7 service pack. Yeah, there are some nice new additions like the new file copy interface, removing the need for CAD, new Task Manager, and some of the cloud syncing/profile stuff if you're into that sort of thing. But it's not really enough to call it a completely new operating system.

But Microsoft had this tablet interface that was pretty decent, thought they could force the Metro Start down everyone's throat and get a cheap upgrade cycle out of it, and here we are.
 
2013-01-05 01:38:10 PM

Shadowknight: not even a traditional desktop we are used to since version 3.0.  Just scrolling apps across a laptop screen.


I'm just glad Windows 8 (on desktops) has the traditional desktop screen. I was afraid it didn't when I got it, but fortunately learned that most reviews were either inaccurate or referenced the tablet version. Whew...
 
2013-01-05 01:44:25 PM
Just get the Metro stuff out of the way, and you've got a really decent OS, especially for those of us running three monitors at work. I have zero interest in the Metro apps, but the changes to the regular desktop are a really nice improvement.
 
2013-01-05 01:45:36 PM

jayhawk88: The thing is, you take away that Metro Start menu, Win8 is essentially a Win7 service pack. Yeah, there are some nice new additions like the new file copy interface, removing the need for CAD, new Task Manager, and some of the cloud syncing/profile stuff if you're into that sort of thing. But it's not really enough to call it a completely new operating system.

But Microsoft had this tablet interface that was pretty decent, thought they could force the Metro Start down everyone's throat and get a cheap upgrade cycle out of it, and here we are.


My friend was on the Windows 8 beta, and said the same thing.  That it was Windows 7 with a tablet OS built on top.  My only personal exposure to it was the two minutes I spent screwing with it at the NEX before I walked away in disgust, and because my kids were trying to take one of the display TVs off the shelf.

They are a bit rambunctious when they get bored.

Point is, I didn't have enough time to figure out how to disable this Metro Start thing, or revert it to a usable version.  We may be buying a new laptop for my wife in the next few weeks, and all the NEX has are Windows 8 equipped.  So either we order one with Windows 7 and try to have it shipped, or we bite the bullet and go Windows 8.  Or, as I said, start the painful transition to Mac...
 
2013-01-05 01:47:59 PM

NotoriousFire: I'm just glad Windows 8 (on desktops) has the traditional desktop screen. I was afraid it didn't when I got it, but fortunately learned that most reviews were either inaccurate or referenced the tablet version. Whew...


I may have to get up to the store and play with it more.  All I know is that Metro thing can kiss my ass.
 
2013-01-05 01:49:30 PM

Shadowknight: jayhawk88: The thing is, you take away that Metro Start menu, Win8 is essentially a Win7 service pack. Yeah, there are some nice new additions like the new file copy interface, removing the need for CAD, new Task Manager, and some of the cloud syncing/profile stuff if you're into that sort of thing. But it's not really enough to call it a completely new operating system.

But Microsoft had this tablet interface that was pretty decent, thought they could force the Metro Start down everyone's throat and get a cheap upgrade cycle out of it, and here we are.

My friend was on the Windows 8 beta, and said the same thing.  That it was Windows 7 with a tablet OS built on top.  My only personal exposure to it was the two minutes I spent screwing with it at the NEX before I walked away in disgust, and because my kids were trying to take one of the display TVs off the shelf.

They are a bit rambunctious when they get bored.

Point is, I didn't have enough time to figure out how to disable this Metro Start thing, or revert it to a usable version.  We may be buying a new laptop for my wife in the next few weeks, and all the NEX has are Windows 8 equipped.  So either we order one with Windows 7 and try to have it shipped, or we bite the bullet and go Windows 8.  Or, as I said, start the painful transition to Mac...


Getting to the traditional desktop in Win8 is simple. Navigating it is a bit clunky at first, but you'll get over it soon enough.

Metro is worthless on a laptop or desktop.

/on a Win8 laptop
//getting a kick out of the replies...
 
2013-01-05 01:51:45 PM

PowerSlacker: Getting to the traditional desktop in Win8 is simple. Navigating it is a bit clunky at first, but you'll get over it soon enough.

Metro is worthless on a laptop or desktop.

/on a Win8 laptop
//getting a kick out of the replies...


What is the quickest way to do that?  I only had few moments to mess with it, and would like my next time to be a bit more informative.
 
2013-01-05 01:52:22 PM

Shadowknight: Point is, I didn't have enough time to figure out how to disable this Metro Start thing, or revert it to a usable version.  We may be buying a new laptop for my wife in the next few weeks, and all the NEX has are Windows 8 equipped.  So either we order one with Windows 7 and try to have it shipped, or we bite the bullet and go Windows 8.  Or, as I said, start the painful transition to Mac...


This is what I don't get. It is literally ONE click from when the OS boots and you are in desktop mode. How is that difficult? There is probably some way to have it boot into desktop only, but why bother? As for the start menu, yeah, it's odd its gone because you were used to it for so long, but really, just set up your programs on the Metro interface for the most used and bam, click windows key and click the app. It's really actually faster than it was before. Or just pin the most used to your taskbar.
 
2013-01-05 01:53:56 PM

Shadowknight: PowerSlacker: Getting to the traditional desktop in Win8 is simple. Navigating it is a bit clunky at first, but you'll get over it soon enough.

Metro is worthless on a laptop or desktop.

/on a Win8 laptop
//getting a kick out of the replies...

What is the quickest way to do that?  I only had few moments to mess with it, and would like my next time to be a bit more informative.


Just hit the windows key, or click on the desktop icon on the metro interface, either will instantly switch to desktop mode
 
2013-01-05 01:55:39 PM

Cuyose: This is what I don't get. It is literally ONE click from when the OS boots and you are in desktop mode. How is that difficult? There is probably some way to have it boot into desktop only, but why bother? As for the start menu, yeah, it's odd its gone because you were used to it for so long, but really, just set up your programs on the Metro interface for the most used and bam, click windows key and click the app. It's really actually faster than it was before. Or just pin the most used to your taskbar.


I couldn't get OUT of the Metro on the display units.  I'd click something, it would put up a quick note of what the app does...  I'm starting to think they had the machines messed up or locked at the NEX.
 
2013-01-05 01:56:15 PM

Cuyose: Just hit the windows key, or click on the desktop icon on the metro interface, either will instantly switch to desktop mode


Neither worked for me.  Maybe the store just had their units screwed up or locked.
 
2013-01-05 01:58:44 PM

Shadowknight: Cuyose: This is what I don't get. It is literally ONE click from when the OS boots and you are in desktop mode. How is that difficult? There is probably some way to have it boot into desktop only, but why bother? As for the start menu, yeah, it's odd its gone because you were used to it for so long, but really, just set up your programs on the Metro interface for the most used and bam, click windows key and click the app. It's really actually faster than it was before. Or just pin the most used to your taskbar.

I couldn't get OUT of the Metro on the display units.  I'd click something, it would put up a quick note of what the app does...  I'm starting to think they had the machines messed up or locked at the NEX.


I guess that's possible, the first time I used it I had the same reaction, but a minute of google or using it will get you going. Its no different than looking at OSX for the first time and wondering what all the damn scrolly icons do at the bottom. And it is ridiculously fast booting up, I have an SSD but it is really about 10 seconds from off to seeing the desktop.
 
2013-01-05 02:11:54 PM

Shadowknight: Seems as good as place as any to ask the question "What the hell were they thinking with Windows 8?"


I just did an in-place upgrade from Windows 7 after the last Win8 thread and here's what they were thinking:  it's a tablet OS, barely.  It's certainly not meant for a keyboard and mouse.

The new tools are nice - like Task manager or the file transfer window, but it doesn't boot any faster than 7 did (probably even slower, but I imagine that's because I did an upgrade instead of a clean install).  Hovering the mouse on the right side of a monitor to get a menu is fine unless you have two monitors, then it's an exercise in frustration.  Some things, like the power button, take entirely too many clicks to get to (should you really have to load the "settings" tile to get to the power button?)

Once you customize the Start Menu and the tiles to include everything you usually run, it's not a terrible OS.  But it's certainly not enough of an improvement to upgrade from 7.  In many ways, it's worse unless you have a touchscreen.  It's a mess.  They also inexplicably removed ALT+TAB to switch between programs and instead require using Win+TAB, which is just obnoxious.  It's just a minor change, but one that didn't need to be made.

Having said all of that, it did upgrade correctly and install the proper drivers without any input from me, which is a step up.  However, it wouldn't install any Windows updates until I removed my sound card driver and my video card driver.  Minor issue, but it took about six hours to resolve because it would get stuck in an Update loop where it wouldn't install the update, roll back, restart, try to apply the update again, fail, roll back, then restart again.

Maybe by SP1 they'll have all the kinks worked out, but I'm not holding my breath.
 
2013-01-05 02:14:53 PM
So either we order one with Windows 7 and try to have it shipped, or we bite the bullet and go Windows 8. Or, as I said, start the painful transition to Mac..

Hubby recently got a new computer - ordered it online with Windows 7. He mostly uses it for gaming so Linux and Apple were out (at least till linux has a windows emulator that will handle his games). If the brick and board store doesn't have any machines with windows 7, request it. If they are unable or unwilling to respond to customer demands, then they deserve to lose the business to the internet companies who will.
 
2013-01-05 02:19:03 PM
Last Friday, an online data and ad company found that Surface RT tablet users accounted for less than 0.25 percent of Web traffic during the weeks before Christmas, while users of Apple's iPad tablets still generate more than 87 percent of U.S. and Canadian tablet Web traffic.

While I'm certain that iPad is blowing Surface out of the water (and not only because it has been on the market for so much longer), this is a stupid comparison. Why show Surface's percent of all web traffic versus iPad's percentage of tablet traffic.

/According to Omniture, my work's site had 828 pageviews on the Surface over the last 30 days, (0.0% of mobile traffic), compared to iPad's 621,000 (20% of mobile).
//Second place was HTC Flyer, which I hadn't even heard of. WTF Kindle?
///Still a dumb comparison
 
2013-01-05 02:24:20 PM
I bought an i7 processor laptop because I need the computing power to run an ultrasound probe that's pretty demanding computing power wise and the laptop was running 8 which I hadn't researched and does it ever suck bad. They already shiatcanned the head of the Windows division before Christmas over this crappy product so how long before these knuckleheads put out a service pack or update and fix this? It's got to be easier to fix than Apple maps where they have to turn Polish airports into parks and Australian cities into desert wastelands so why aren't they fixing it?
 
2013-01-05 02:29:20 PM
MS is forcing Metro on computer users in a desperate bid to grab phone/tablet share down the road. The problem is, they are pissing off a lot of people who don't want to relearn an operating system. It'll be interesting to see whether this gamble pays off.
 
2013-01-05 02:53:35 PM

Shadowknight: Point is, I didn't have enough time to figure out how to disable this Metro Start thing, or revert it to a usable version.  We may be buying a new laptop for my wife in the next few weeks, and all the NEX has are Windows 8 equipped.  So either we order one with Windows 7 and try to have it shipped, or we bite the bullet and go Windows 8.  Or, as I said, start the painful transition to Mac...


You can't disable the Metro Start, short of installing some kind of third party app/hack that does it. Microsoft is forcing it on users, however.

If they just would have given people the option of running "Classic" or "Metro", kind of like how they did in XP, things would have been fine. Hell, they would have seen a better adoption rate from the Enterprise than they did with Win7, because the program compatibility leap from Win7 to Win8 is trivial when compared to XP to Win7. Home users would have adopted at the same rate since 99% of people would get it with a new computer and not bother to downgrade, and sure a lot of people would have turned on Classic, but a lot would have used Metro as well and gotten to like it.

But they decided to force the issue and now it's blowing up in their face. And oh yeah it's not helping their tablet sales one bit. Heck they could have removed Classic Mode from tablets alone and been OK, just give desktop and laptop users the option to stay with what they know. Yes, you can get used to it but why was it necessary to force it? It wasn't; the only thing this is accomplishing is to piss off users.
 
2013-01-05 02:57:18 PM

Shadowknight: Seriously.  I, and most everyone that used it, loved Windows 7.  It was pretty intuitive, secure, and had a ridiculously low memory footprint (especially compared to that of Vista).  I'm using it right now, and was mildly intrigued by what they were going to pull out for their next version.  Like most geeks, I am well aware of the idiotic tendency for MS to alternate good and bad versions of Windows, but hoped they would break the cycle.


I wouldn't call it intuitive but its the best Windows that Microsoft ever produced.  They should of took a page from Apple's playbook and just perform incremental updates every few months with a major update every other year.

/the fast Microsoft realizes its just an Enterprise software company the better
 
2013-01-05 03:04:20 PM
My computer is not a phone. Is Microsoft deliberately trying to kill off the PC? They are making them unusable.
 
2013-01-05 03:40:05 PM
Make the interface that shall not be named optional and I'll consider Win8, until then suck it MS I'll wait until you crawl back to your sanity with Win9 or perhaps that whole linux + steam thing will really take off and I can jump ship if I need to.
 
2013-01-05 04:02:35 PM
The thing I don't like about Microsoft is that they take a perfectly good product that's been working fine for years, and decide to update it with the result of completely farking it up.

My case in point: the menu system of office and paint. Every since Windows 3.0 there was 'file edit something something something' staring at you from the top of your screen. It became so ubiquitous that nearly ever other program in the world that used a window copied the theme of it. It was consistent. It was stable. It was the same thing you've know for the last fifteen years. Sure it may not have been sexy or flash - but it's a farking word processor. How sexy does it need to be?

And what do MS do? They go an update it and hide all that shiat. The next time I tried to use it I had to spend ten minutes just figuring out how to insert a damn table. Congratulation Bill, you made over a decade of my experience with your product obsolete. And you did it at just about the same time that OpenOffice let me download an almost exact clone.

Which I promptly installed on every computer in the office because I got tired of the boss biatching about how he can't open a file anymore. The man has days where he can't figure out a mouse. You think I want to try to teach him a new user interface for excel?
 
2013-01-05 04:07:03 PM
 
2013-01-05 04:28:10 PM
This is what I don't get. It is literally ONE click from when the OS boots and you are in desktop mode. How is that difficult? There is probably some way to have it boot into desktop only, but why bother? As for the start menu, yeah, it's odd its gone because you were used to it for so long, but really, just set up your programs on the Metro interface for the most used and bam, click windows key and click the app. It's really actually faster than it was before. Or just pin the most used to your taskbar.

but i don't want to think or change, waaah
 
2013-01-05 04:38:53 PM

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: This is what I don't get. It is literally ONE click from when the OS boots and you are in desktop mode. How is that difficult? There is probably some way to have it boot into desktop only, but why bother? As for the start menu, yeah, it's odd its gone because you were used to it for so long, but really, just set up your programs on the Metro interface for the most used and bam, click windows key and click the app. It's really actually faster than it was before. Or just pin the most used to your taskbar.

but i don't want to think or change, waaah


people fear change... I for one just got a new tablet/laptop hybrid (Samsung Ativ PC pro with full Win 8). Sure there are changes that take a while to get used to but overall I really like it. I spend almost all of my time in the desktop and it's either click on the desktop tile in metro or hit the windows key.

It amuses me that so many 'IT professionals' hate the change because they have to learn something new. They should be the ones most eager to go playing in the OS to find all the neat things it can do...
 
2013-01-05 04:39:22 PM

Shadowknight: Cuyose: Just hit the windows key, or click on the desktop icon on the metro interface, either will instantly switch to desktop mode

Neither worked for me.  Maybe the store just had their units screwed up or locked.


That would be a spectacularly retarded thing to do, make your demo units hard to use when you are trying to convince people to buy them. But then the whole Metro thing is spectacularly retarded so maybe the did do that.

I love W8 (the upgrade from XP deal was very good) but only after installing Classic Shell which puts the start button and function back.

Desktops and tablets are different machines. They are used differently and need a different OS. W8 is like Honda deciding that since they make cars and bikes they will standardise the controls and fit all their new cars with handlebars, twist throttles, foot gear change etc and expect everyone to get used to it. A bike is not a car. A PC is not a tablet. They should not have the same interface. By all meanst standardise the core OS, the software they can run etc but a traditional desktop is not the same as a tablet you hold in your hands.
 
2013-01-05 04:39:28 PM
fta-an exaggeration to say that every nearly every week since Thanksgiving

sigh. glass houses & kettles and pots and bricks. blah blah.
 
2013-01-05 04:55:15 PM
One click from an old start button?

Good luck finding Calculator or the cache of your last-used documents, both of which I used all the time. Never mind the system tools that I used occasionally.
 
2013-01-05 05:22:48 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: This is what I don't get. It is literally ONE click from when the OS boots and you are in desktop mode. How is that difficult? There is probably some way to have it boot into desktop only, but why bother? As for the start menu, yeah, it's odd its gone because you were used to it for so long, but really, just set up your programs on the Metro interface for the most used and bam, click windows key and click the app. It's really actually faster than it was before. Or just pin the most used to your taskbar.

but i don't want to think or change, waaah

people fear change... I for one just got a new tablet/laptop hybrid (Samsung Ativ PC pro with full Win 8). Sure there are changes that take a while to get used to but overall I really like it. I spend almost all of my time in the desktop and it's either click on the desktop tile in metro or hit the windows key.

It amuses me that so many 'IT professionals' hate the change because they have to learn something new. They should be the ones most eager to go playing in the OS to find all the neat things it can do...


IT people often dislike change just as much, if not more so, than the average user. Wile they may be ok digging round and finding stuff, they generally dislike having the people they support coins tangly asking the same questions over and over again, especially if those people are just trying to do the jobs they were previously able to do before they got their "upgrades" that they probably didn't really want in the first place.
 
2013-01-05 05:24:58 PM
Is this the thread I get called a paid Microsoft shill?
While thinking Google needs to own the internet
 
2013-01-05 05:26:21 PM

Flint Ironstag: Desktops and tablets are different machines. They are used differently and need a different OS. W8 is like Honda deciding that since they make cars and bikes they will standardise the controls and fit all their new cars with handlebars, twist throttles, foot gear change etc and expect everyone to get used to it. A bike is not a car. A PC is not a tablet. They should not have the same interface. By all meanst standardise the core OS, the software they can run etc but a traditional desktop is not the same as a tablet you hold in your hands.


This is about the best analogy as I've ever heard.  

lunkhed: One click from an old start button?

Good luck finding Calculator or the cache of your last-used documents, both of which I used all the time. Never mind the system tools that I used occasionally.


That was my problem when I was trying to bring up System Information so I could see what kind of processor and memory it had (the Navy Exchange is notoriously bad about posting that info), but lacking a start button I was left fumbling with the Metro search option.  Which, of course, had no idea what "system information" was.  

That's about the time my kids were getting antsy and I was getting frustrated, so I walked away.

Flint Ironstag: That would be a spectacularly retarded thing to do, make your demo units hard to use when you are trying to convince people to buy them.


Never underestimate the stupidity of Navy Exchange Rota.
 
2013-01-05 05:33:33 PM

Representative of the unwashed masses: E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: This is what I don't get. It is literally ONE click from when the OS boots and you are in desktop mode. How is that difficult? There is probably some way to have it boot into desktop only, but why bother? As for the start menu, yeah, it's odd its gone because you were used to it for so long, but really, just set up your programs on the Metro interface for the most used and bam, click windows key and click the app. It's really actually faster than it was before. Or just pin the most used to your taskbar.

but i don't want to think or change, waaah

people fear change... I for one just got a new tablet/laptop hybrid (Samsung Ativ PC pro with full Win 8). Sure there are changes that take a while to get used to but overall I really like it. I spend almost all of my time in the desktop and it's either click on the desktop tile in metro or hit the windows key.

It amuses me that so many 'IT professionals' hate the change because they have to learn something new. They should be the ones most eager to go playing in the OS to find all the neat things it can do...


IT professionals (like me) hate the change because the switch between modern UI and desktop mode KILLS productivity. "Hey, where were those instructions..,oh yeah. A PDF. I'll just open that in another window..." Cue full screen only Modern UI PDF reader and now you best have a good memory, because you're switching between apps all the time. When you have 20 windows open at all times and you have to split them between environments, that REALLY sucks.
 
2013-01-05 05:37:57 PM
The Metro interface is the Start button. Customize it however you like. It took me literally two minutes to figure out how to browse for stuff I'd like to keep handy in the future and get it pinned. And the desktop is still there! It's gotten me out of the habit of having a cluttered desktop with shortcuts I never use, or using the start button as a poor man's file explorer, so I'm pretty happy with it.
 
2013-01-05 05:55:28 PM

Karac: The thing I don't like about Microsoft is that they take a perfectly good product that's been working fine for years, and decide to update it with the result of completely farking it up.

My case in point: the menu system of office and paint. Every since Windows 3.0 there was 'file edit something something something' staring at you from the top of your screen. It became so ubiquitous that nearly ever other program in the world that used a window copied the theme of it. It was consistent. It was stable. It was the same thing you've know for the last fifteen years. Sure it may not have been sexy or flash - but it's a farking word processor. How sexy does it need to be?

And what do MS do? They go an update it and hide all that shiat. The next time I tried to use it I had to spend ten minutes just figuring out how to insert a damn table. Congratulation Bill, you made over a decade of my experience with your product obsolete. And you did it at just about the same time that OpenOffice let me download an almost exact clone.

Which I promptly installed on every computer in the office because I got tired of the boss biatching about how he can't open a file anymore. The man has days where he can't figure out a mouse. You think I want to try to teach him a new user interface for excel?


The last paragraph is one of the reasons I dislike Win8. As part of my job, I support seven PCs. Four of those are limited-use (2 point-of-sale, 1 server, 1 monitoring security cameras). For the three remaining computers:

1.) The boss' PC runs Win7. She uses the computer for general office purposes, especially Quicken/MSOffice. On a regular basis, I have to show her how to copy files to thumb drives, burn CDs/DVDs, create/save/open files in various programs, interact with web sites, find programs that aren't in the Start Menu, you name it. I could probably set Metro up to have everything she needs right at hand, but it would take forever for her to get used to it.

2.) The desk PC is accessible to all employees, and is ostensibly used to look up information for customers, print maps, respond to online comments and emails, draft letters, that kind of thing. It's really used for general web browsing and streaming videos. It was running Vista, but it recently died (MB or processor fried, don't care to find out which). Hopefully the new one will have 7. If it has 8, I will have to retrain six people. Vista was bad enough, and both Vista computers eventually got "stripped down" until they look and act like XP.

3.) The Public Computer *shudder*. It also runs Vista. The desktop only has ONE ICON (IE, though Chrome is installed for my use), and some people still can't figure out how to get online. Even though it looks and acts EXACTLY like XP, I am CONSTANTLY demonstrating basic computer use to customers. File, Print; Right-click, Print; CTRL-P... they still can't figure out how to print. I still go over and find ten minimized IE windows, because they "lost" the window and just opened another one. I've had a few ask me where to find the "Mozzarella Foxfire" button, because their kid/grandkid/nephew/whatever installed it and now they don't know how to use anything else.

I've already figured out 8 for myself, it wasn't that difficult. I still don't like it, but that's a personal preference. I do NOT want to train six employees on a new OS, and I will NOT put a Win8 computer out for public use.

Regarding the "just press one button to get to the desktop" argument...

To someone who actually understands computers, it sounds easy.

To the average person who just uses a computer, it is confusing, but they'll get it after a while (sometimes a long while).

To the (usually elderly) people who only use the computer for email and Facebook, it freaks them out if anything is even slightly different from their home computer. I've done quite a few upgrade/installs where I've been told by the purchaser (usually not the intended user) that the desktop must look EXACTLY like the old computer, down to the order and position of the icons. In fact, I've just started taking a screenshot of the desktop before I do any work on any computer. That way I can put it back the way it was once I'm done.
 
2013-01-05 05:59:28 PM

Knobbs: IT professionals (like me) hate the change because the switch between modern UI and desktop mode KILLS productivity. "Hey, where were those instructions..,oh yeah. A PDF. I'll just open that in another window..." Cue full screen only Modern UI PDF reader and now you best have a good memory, because you're switching between apps all the time. When you have 20 windows open at all times and you have to split them between environments, that REALLY sucks.


I had that problem. Opened a PDF and wanted to open Calculator to add up some figures in the PDF and of course it had opened the PDF in a Metro App,and so couldn't open Calculator on top. Stupid.
 
2013-01-05 06:00:45 PM

lunkhed: One click from an old start button?

Good luck finding Calculator or the cache of your last-used documents, both of which I used all the time. Never mind the system tools that I used occasionally.


Pin the calculator to your start screen or taskbar? Open start screen and type "calculator" (or probably just "c"), when search finds it, right click it and pin it to something. The start screen is really only supposed to have your commonly used stuff. Unpin all the default crap you don't want. Right click and hit "all apps" if you want to see everything in the start menu.

For recently used docs, I suppose they're not all nicely arranged on your start menu, but you can use the jump lists. Pin Word to your taskbar. Right click on it and you can get a list of recently opened documents to use, and even pin specific things to always show up there.
 
2013-01-05 06:01:19 PM

Cuyose: This is what I don't get. It is literally ONE click from when the OS boots and you are in desktop mode. How is that difficult?


Why is it necessary?

Windows 8 is junk. Those of you grading on a curve, I honestly don't understand why you'd argue against your own self-interest in using an operating system that is as intuitive and functional as possible. Windows 8 is neither, and you know it. Judge it against Windows 7 or XP - is it better than those? Why do you want to reward or argue for what you know is poor design? Do you want to encourage more of the same?

The sales figures speaks for themselves, and there is no excitement about Windows 8. Who here is genuinely chomping at the bit to pick it up? (Queue anecdotal but useless CSBs here.)
 
2013-01-05 06:03:54 PM
Windows 8 should not ever START in metro mode, that should be a selectable option. Dumping 100% of all users into a tablet app OS every time they boot is stupid, it's just so MS can try and justify a full upgrade cost for what is really just a service pack. They keep trying to imitate Apple and failing.
 
2013-01-05 06:08:19 PM

Flint Ironstag: Knobbs: IT professionals (like me) hate the change because the switch between modern UI and desktop mode KILLS productivity. "Hey, where were those instructions..,oh yeah. A PDF. I'll just open that in another window..." Cue full screen only Modern UI PDF reader and now you best have a good memory, because you're switching between apps all the time. When you have 20 windows open at all times and you have to split them between environments, that REALLY sucks.

I had that problem. Opened a PDF and wanted to open Calculator to add up some figures in the PDF and of course it had opened the PDF in a Metro App,and so couldn't open Calculator on top. Stupid.


Yeah, that's annoying. PDFs and images and web pages especially. I immediately told it to never use the Metro IE, and at some point I changed it to use the desktop version of whatever built in picture viewers Microsoft has, but still haven't fixed it for PDFs. Pretty sure just downloading acrobat reader would take care of that if it bothered me enough. I'm sure I'll deal with it eventually.
 
2013-01-05 06:09:51 PM

1. Put snakes on plane: The Metro interface is the Start button. Customize it however you like. It took me literally two minutes to figure out how to browse for stuff I'd like to keep handy in the future and get it pinned. And the desktop is still there! It's gotten me out of the habit of having a cluttered desktop with shortcuts I never use, or using the start button as a poor man's file explorer, so I'm pretty happy with it.


But lots of things run in Metro. Like the default PDF viewer. So no more having a PDF and another window, or Calculator, open on the screen. Or download another PDF viewer that runs in the desktop. Which defeats the purpose of having the default PDF viewer in Metro...

And navigating the traditional Start menu and drilling down to a specific program to click is a smooth mouse journey. It is a logical tree/directory order. With Metro you have to either use the mouse to find the scroll bar until you see your program and then navigate the mouse to it or use the left and right arrows to scroll and then go back to the mouse. It is a far less smooth operation and the order/location far more random and haphazard. Yes you can move them around, but why should you need to?

Again, I am very happy with how W8 runs, especially as a $40 upgrade from XP. But it took Classic Shell to make it easy to use. Why should I learn to use a new layout? Do Ford bring out a new car and put the gas pedal on the left and say "You'll get used to it"?
Lots of people move between home and work PCs, or share work PCs, use different PCs at work, use their friends PCs, etc. A standard layout is a good thing, and Windows classic was that.
 
2013-01-05 06:13:33 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Windows 8 should not ever START in metro mode, that should be a selectable option. Dumping 100% of all users into a tablet app OS every time they boot is stupid, it's just so MS can try and justify a full upgrade cost for what is really just a service pack. They keep trying to imitate Apple and failing.


Metro isn't a mode. It's the start menu. It's like saying that Win 7 shouldn't have the start menu open when you log in. It doesn't, but would it seriously be that big a deal if it did? It would probably save me a click. Window Server likes to pop up a "Manage your server" window when you log in to that and it doesn't seem to bother people much.
 
2013-01-05 06:14:26 PM

oh_please: MS is forcing Metro on computer users in a desperate bid to grab phone/tablet share down the road. The problem is, they are pissing off a lot of people who don't want to relearn an operating system. It'll be interesting to see whether this gamble pays off.


Exactly what I was thinking. I'm guessing no, unless Apple makes a similar mistake. I wonder how much of the tablet market they will have to capture to start to make a profit. My guess is MS will be happy if they break even, if it means they can keep some of the profits out of their competitors hands or make Apple stumble, if even just a little bit.
 
2013-01-05 06:15:00 PM

Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Windows 8 should not ever START in metro mode, that should be a selectable option. Dumping 100% of all users into a tablet app OS every time they boot is stupid, it's just so MS can try and justify a full upgrade cost for what is really just a service pack. They keep trying to imitate Apple and failing.


Which is what Classic Shell does.
MS, when you bring out a new OS and lots of third party companies bring out programmes to fix something you broke maybe it is a sign that you shouldn't have broken it in the first place and many users want it back...
 
2013-01-05 06:19:19 PM

seanpg71: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Windows 8 should not ever START in metro mode, that should be a selectable option. Dumping 100% of all users into a tablet app OS every time they boot is stupid, it's just so MS can try and justify a full upgrade cost for what is really just a service pack. They keep trying to imitate Apple and failing.

Metro isn't a mode. It's the start menu. It's like saying that Win 7 shouldn't have the start menu open when you log in. It doesn't, but would it seriously be that big a deal if it did? It would probably save me a click. Window Server likes to pop up a "Manage your server" window when you log in to that and it doesn't seem to bother people much.


Lots of apps, including stuff like the default PDF viewer,Mail etc run in Metro. Where they run full screen only and have totally new and non-obvious controls like exit etc. It is not just a start menu.
 
2013-01-05 06:22:29 PM

Flint Ironstag: Knobbs: IT professionals (like me) hate the change because the switch between modern UI and desktop mode KILLS productivity. "Hey, where were those instructions..,oh yeah. A PDF. I'll just open that in another window..." Cue full screen only Modern UI PDF reader and now you best have a good memory, because you're switching between apps all the time. When you have 20 windows open at all times and you have to split them between environments, that REALLY sucks.

I had that problem. Opened a PDF and wanted to open Calculator to add up some figures in the PDF and of course it had opened the PDF in a Metro App,and so couldn't open Calculator on top. Stupid.


I haven't used 8 yet, so could you explain this some more? It sounds like they made it where you could only have one program open at a time, and that can't be right. Is there really a way that you can have a PDF open and not be able to start a second program?
 
2013-01-05 06:27:34 PM

Flint Ironstag: seanpg71: Incontinent_dog_and_monkey_rodeo: Windows 8 should not ever START in metro mode, that should be a selectable option. Dumping 100% of all users into a tablet app OS every time they boot is stupid, it's just so MS can try and justify a full upgrade cost for what is really just a service pack. They keep trying to imitate Apple and failing.

Metro isn't a mode. It's the start menu. It's like saying that Win 7 shouldn't have the start menu open when you log in. It doesn't, but would it seriously be that big a deal if it did? It would probably save me a click. Window Server likes to pop up a "Manage your server" window when you log in to that and it doesn't seem to bother people much.

Lots of apps, including stuff like the default PDF viewer,Mail etc run in Metro. Where they run full screen only and have totally new and non-obvious controls like exit etc. It is not just a start menu.


Sure, but the complaint wasn't "Windows 8 comes with lots of weird programs I don't understand preinstalled". The complaint was about a menu being open at login.

Windows 7 doesn't even have a bundled PDF viewer. Just cause the one Windows 8 comes with isn't to your liking doesn't make it somehow terrible.
 
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