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(Reason Magazine)   Quit worrying about your assault rifle. The real and now threat from the government is to your pizza   (reason.com) divider line 36
    More: Scary, American Pizza, Americans, Chapman University, worrying, injury, original intent  
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13377 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jan 2013 at 3:09 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-05 03:03:03 PM
2 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: GAT_00: I like how you keep arguing that small businesses are incompetent and incapable of adapting to changing conditions.

I said that where?

Yes, I'll wait.


You think they can't manage to operate a spreadsheet without outsourcing it to someone else.

R.A.Danny: GAT_00: Those small businesses must be really awesome.

They aren't operating at the margins that allow for "just a few extra minutes per meal" and can't while competing with the big guys.


If they are that close to the red, they are unlikely to survive the next equipment failure anyway.
2013-01-05 02:34:14 PM
2 votes:

Endive Wombat: but there is a lot of extra work


Which is what I've been arguing against.  This is actually pretty simple to do.  What's more, there are businesses already doing this, such as this burger place.  Clearly, the work to set this up isn't all that burdensome.
2013-01-05 10:31:50 AM
2 votes:
Calories in types of crust by size.

Calories in each topping.

This is just like goddamned rocket science.
2013-01-05 10:14:01 AM
2 votes:

ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.


Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined.  Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza.  They order double, it's 8 ounces.  It's not difficult.
2013-01-05 09:48:26 AM
2 votes:
From that article, I can see the ruling may need work. From the headline, I can see that subby sounds fat.
2013-01-05 06:21:57 PM
1 votes:
Yeah, it's gonna be a real biatch to add a comically-simple arithmetic subroutine to this:

www.pizza-pos-system.com
2013-01-05 05:03:36 PM
1 votes:

Fart_Machine: fluffy2097: Yes. Labeling food will stop people from eating it.

Just like telling smokers that it will give them cancer made everyone stop smoking.

Obviously smoking hasn't declined in the last 30 years.


Yes, well if you make food 5 times more expensive, I'm sure there will be more people too poor to be fat as well.
2013-01-05 04:37:35 PM
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: Fart_Machine: Endive Wombat: Fart_Machine: Did anyone bother to point out that this only applies to chain restaurants with more than 20 locations? A lot of small restaurants already do this as a courtesy for their patrons. Obviously this has crushed them.

From what I can tell, the issue is that the signage needs to be for EVERY possible combination - apparently that means (according to the article's numbers) each location will need to display the calorie content for every single possible combination of ingredients.  Can you conceptualize how large of a sign(s) would have to be to list every single possible iteration?  That is the main issue at hand.  Now think about having to change this football stadium sized sign because of a minor tweak in a recipe or change of ingredient.

If you've ever been to a restaurant that already does this they really don't. Specialty pizzas already have pre-set toppings and providing a range is enough to satisfy the other requirement like McDonald's does with combo meals. They haven't fined the chain because it doesn't give the precise calorie count if you leave off a particular condiment.

But the article even points out that there is conflicting information as to whether or not caloric ranges are going to be allowed.  So, if they are, this is not as big of a deal...but if they are not, then you are stuck with putting up signs with 34M iterations.


I'm going to have to do more research outside of "Reason" before I can form an opinion about this.
2013-01-05 04:35:01 PM
1 votes:

Blues_X: Dancin_In_Anson: duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?

The question authority generation has given way to the do as your told it's for the good of society generation.


Yes... giving nutritional info to a nation of fatasses is truly terrible.


Not that I expect the lard butt guys and human Bon Bon women to care...

I'm not perfect either in this case. I started off, as my friend put it, at 19 stone (265lbs) and have worked my fata$$ down to within spitting distance of 12.5 stone (175lbs), with less than 1.5 stone to go. No more spare tractor tire on this 5'11" frame.

I put of the excess 6 stone after my accident left me in a wheelchair for a year and I didn't change my eating habits. My own stupid fault. I went from running, et al., which let me burn 2600-3000 calories a day to basically burning 1100 in a very sedentary state. This hasn't been easy, but the looks I get are worth it overall. I'm getting hit one by women half my age.

/if only I wasn't married
//my wife is a great woman
2013-01-05 04:29:41 PM
1 votes:

hasty ambush: duffblue: Wow people really need the government to tell them how to do everything. I can see how the anti-gun movement got rolling. You guys really don't question anything, do you? How hard is it to just not be a fatass?


You sound racist just like everybody else who opposes a government policy or owns a gun. What right do you have to enjoy a pizza when there are so many out there that cannot. You need fat acceptance training. You are one one of those 1% eaters who care little about he suffering of the obese 99%

Nowadays people would rather be cared for than be free as those burdens that come with freedom, self responsibility, self reliance and using some common sense, are just to heavy to carry.

Obamacare, for those who were really paying attention, was not about providing people with a bunch of "free stuff" but expanding government power. After all if government is funding your healthcare shouldn't they be able to control costs by controlling your lifestyle?

I wonder if they can stiil sell you your pizza if the label printer with nutritional information is offline?

Off course the real objective is to eliminate stuff like pizza as a choice in the first place

Enjoy your Kale citizen

[s3.media.squarespace.com image 700x443]

[dailybleach.com image 350x353]


0/10

Sad and pitiful display of trolling we're seeing here today.
2013-01-05 04:24:51 PM
1 votes:

duffblue: Wow people really need the government to tell them how to do everything. I can see how the anti-gun movement got rolling. You guys really don't question anything, do you? How hard is it to just not be a fatass?



You sound racist just like everybody else who opposes a government policy or owns a gun. What right do you have to enjoy a pizza when there are so many out there that cannot. You need fat acceptance training. You are one one of those 1% eaters who care little about he suffering of the obese 99%

Nowadays people would rather be cared for than be free as those burdens that come with freedom, self responsibility, self reliance and using some common sense, are just to heavy to carry.

Obamacare, for those who were really paying attention, was not about providing people with a bunch of "free stuff" but expanding government power. After all if government is funding your healthcare shouldn't they be able to control costs by controlling your lifestyle?

I wonder if they can stiil sell you your pizza if the label printer with nutritional information is offline?

Off course the real objective is to eliminate stuff like pizza as a choice in the first place

Enjoy your Kale citizen

s3.media.squarespace.com

dailybleach.com
2013-01-05 04:20:03 PM
1 votes:
If you are ordering a pizza, chances are you don't give a shiat about how many calories it has.
2013-01-05 04:05:09 PM
1 votes:
Two words: upon request. Gives those want know the info and the rest of us can go on not micro-managing every event in our lives.
2013-01-05 04:03:14 PM
1 votes:
Did anyone bother to point out that this only applies to chain restaurants with more than 20 locations? A lot of small restaurants already do this as a courtesy for their patrons. Obviously this has crushed them.
2013-01-05 04:02:29 PM
1 votes:

YouPeopleAreCrazy: OK, here's the sign:

A single slice of pizza is between 150 and 500 calories, depending on toppings.

Prominently displayed online and in the store.
/satisfied?


Yup.
Gonna print some out and give them to the local non-chain pizza joints.
2013-01-05 03:56:31 PM
1 votes:
I wish we'd had calorie-content labeling 50 years ago, and so does my ass. Just last night at a popular, fairly healthy-food chain restaurant, I switched from the 1100 calorie sandwich to the 275 calorie salad.

I eat pizza about twice a year...and the labeling would probably help me eliminate that little indulgence.
2013-01-05 03:47:35 PM
1 votes:
OK, here's the sign:

A single slice of pizza is between 150 and 500 calories, depending on toppings.


Prominently displayed online and in the store.
/satisfied?
2013-01-05 03:43:35 PM
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: HotWingConspiracy: Stone Meadow: Jeebus, how hard can this be?

Step 1: Make poster with nutritional data on it (like Micky-Dees does)
Step 2: Hang on wall (ditto)
Step 3: Profit

Questions?

No no, that $5 sign is "costly".

I have a friend that is a stay at home mom. She makes cookies, they are awesome. She makes a few bucks on the side while her kids are in school, and it is an honorable free enterprise business. High quality merchandise made in limited (she only has so much time) quantities.  This WILL cost her money, it will cut into a middle class families income, along with all the other "tiny" cuts to her income that keep coming in. Yes, the small business is absolutely dying the death of a thousand cuts, while huge corporate food service company, run by the 1% are picking up the slack with no worry about the time because those costs are distributed to the point of being negligible. This is the selling of the American dream and it is disgusting.


Food labelling rules

Unless she's operating 20 chains out of her home, you can continue to stuff your fat farking piehole with her cookies all you want.
2013-01-05 03:37:11 PM
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: GAT_00: And there's where you denigrate to personal attacks because you can't explain why the use of a spreadsheet kills a business.

No, you're saying that quality can go to crap because small businesses are limited.


And now we bring out the strawmen in a pathetic attempt to change the topic because you can't win this one.
2013-01-05 03:33:00 PM
1 votes:
You have a menu posted already, just put some got damned numbers after it.  It's not freaking rocket science, and yes they can get away with ranges (fast food places do it based on the sides you get with your Lardburger Supreme example 400-800 calories).  The only reason this information is scary to post is because, well it's scary when you think about  what you're throwing down your piehole.

 Before 1990 food labels didn't even have to list the basic nutitional info and frankly, I'm thankful for the change.
2013-01-05 03:29:52 PM
1 votes:
The DERP is strong in this one.

Forget about this useless krap and concentrate on finding out why beef has quadrupled in price since the late 70's, why chicken has tripled and why did it take years to force margarine companies to disclose that their no cholesterol versions actually created cholesterol when consumed.

Don't f**k with my Pizza! It's almost always fattening, usually contains the same amount of cholesterol as a Hungry Man's Big Breakfast (meaning enough to grease a battleship) and enough cheese to make the Dairy Industry rich, but it's delicious and I like it!

Besides, I'm smart enough to not eat the wonderful concoction every day.

Unfortunately, no one seems to notice that the assorted microwave breakfasts have enough fats, cholesterol, salts and sugars in them to last a construction worker for a week and those are pushed for daily consumption.

You're better off making your own bacon and eggs with hash browns at home. It's actually healthier.

I'd also like to remind you that during the last big 'unhealthy food' scare, various fats were attacked, which were then removed from assorted things like sausages, including processed meats, like Baloney. Especially Lebanon Baloney. To continue to make their products tasty enough for the fickle public, manufacturers replaced the fats with corn sugar.

Soon after, the cost of corn sugar nearly doubled and that increased the cost of the meats. Why did corn sugar go up? Because morons in congress approved grabbing around 1/3 of the corn crop to make ethanol fuel -- ignoring the fact that it can be made from nearly anything that grows.

Adding sugars to processed meats is so much healthier. Usually, when you do that, you need to increase the amount of salt added also.

Leave my olive oil drenched pizza alone! (Olive oil, BTW, is very healthy.)
2013-01-05 03:27:03 PM
1 votes:

YouPeopleAreCrazy: GAT_00: Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined. Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza. They order double, it's 8 ounces. It's not difficult.

FTA:
"With 34 million ways to make a pizza, it makes no common sense to require this industry-which already discloses calories voluntarily, for the most part-to attempt to cram this information on menu boards in small storefronts,"

/when I'm ordering a pizza, I'm not really worried about the caloric difference between sausage or Canadian bacon
//gimme both
///not fat


If you know the nutritional information of all the ingredients you keep on hand, how hard is it to add numbers?

R.A.Danny: GAT_00: And what's stopping that from happening already?

People with better taste in dining than you.


And there's where you denigrate to personal attacks because you can't explain why the use of a spreadsheet kills a business.
2013-01-05 03:22:41 PM
1 votes:
Holy shiat, just publish general caloric content for each ingredient and call it a day.
2013-01-05 03:18:51 PM
1 votes:
I feel sorry for anyone who lives in an area where they have to eat Pizza from a chain restaurant.
2013-01-05 03:14:47 PM
1 votes:

hbk72777: GAT_00: Endive Wombat: Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores. So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt. Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego. So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni. Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt. And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned.  Oh no, the world has fallen down.

He's in every single thread

damn


Yes, every thread being the three currently active threads I have posts in.  Oh no, I have an opinion, the world has fallen down.
2013-01-05 03:13:48 PM
1 votes:

R.A.Danny: GAT_00: If they are that close to the red, they are unlikely to survive the next equipment failure anyway.

Screw 'em. Pizza Hut can always pick up those jobs.


If operating a pre-set spreadsheet is too much for a business, how successful exactly do you think this business is?  How many jobs do you think they're creating?  What exactly do you think the lifespan of it is?
2013-01-05 03:11:48 PM
1 votes:
F*ck you, it's f*cking pizza for f*ck's sake.
2013-01-05 02:48:31 PM
1 votes:

Dancin_In_Anson: Darth_Lukecash: It's the right to have knowledge of the properties of the food you eat.

It's also your right to not eat where you don't want to.

Let's look at it like this...You and I are trying to decide on where to gab some pie and suds. We can go to the joint up the road as they have some righteous offerings and a solid selection of craft brews but no mention of calories or Dominoes who has the calorie count of their tomato paste covered cardboard boxes and Dr Pepper on their menu.

What choice will you make....besides forcing the small joint via government fiat to go through the added expense of hiring GAT_00 to do their calorie analysis for them?


I like how you keep arguing that small businesses are incompetent and incapable of adapting to changing conditions.  Those small businesses must be really awesome.
2013-01-05 02:23:43 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Endive Wombat: Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores. So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt. Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego. So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni. Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt. And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned.  Oh no, the world has fallen down.


It requires extra busy work that almost all customers will not care about.  Pizza is not healthy, its that simple.  Generally, eating out is not that healthy.  Do you want to know why restaurant food tastes so much better than what you make at home?  It's because they use 4x the butter and salt than you would use at home.  I am not trying to fight with you, I agree that on paper, this process seems easy, but there is a lot of extra work and expense that is burdensome to business.
2013-01-05 02:20:18 PM
1 votes:
I'm in favor of this.

It's the right to have knowledge of the properties of the food you eat. It should include calories.

This will not prevent any restaurant from selling any food, nor from any one buying what they want to eat.
2013-01-05 02:12:27 PM
1 votes:

GAT_00: Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined. Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza. They order double, it's 8 ounces. It's not difficult.


Actually yes it is, and it is a stupid law too.  Pizza is not the healthiest food one can consume, this is no mystery.

Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores.  So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt.  Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego.  So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni.  Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt.  And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

The issue here with this law, to be compliant is that every singe store needs to be able to calculate with what they have on hand, and according to this article, no one is really sure if HUGE ranges are allowed.  Furthermore, how is a range of 500 calories to 3700 calories going to do anyone any good?  The article also points out that most customers will never see the signage, which results in a huge waste of money, possible floorspace or sign space.

Does any of what I am saying make any sense?
2013-01-05 12:23:49 PM
1 votes:

Rev.K: duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?

I know!

F*cking nanny state libtardos. Why can't they eat whatever calorie-laden chemical bath is put in front of them. Now they want to know what's in it!

Stuck up ivory tower n0bama voters.


Yawn. Stop being a moron.


Don't buy "pizza" from Papa John's and you will know what's in your pie.
2013-01-05 12:13:19 PM
1 votes:

ArkAngel: GAT_00: ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.

Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined.  Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza.  They order double, it's 8 ounces.  It's not difficult.

What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops


Sure it is.  A label generator, Excel software, easy.  You can use Open Office, so no cost there.  Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box.  That's what, a minute of work, maybe?
2013-01-05 12:05:05 PM
1 votes:

duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?


The question authority generation has given way to the do as your told it's for the good of society generation.
2013-01-05 11:55:44 AM
1 votes:

ArkAngel: What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops


The United States put a man on the moon in 1969, but goddamn it, this is just too much.
2013-01-05 11:50:20 AM
1 votes:
FTA:

"I think pizza places should label calories-really, they can figure out how to do it," New York University professor of public health Marion Nestle

Uh. Yeah. They can.

Case closed.
 
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