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(Reason Magazine)   Quit worrying about your assault rifle. The real and now threat from the government is to your pizza   (reason.com) divider line 245
    More: Scary, American Pizza, Americans, Chapman University, worrying, injury, original intent  
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13378 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jan 2013 at 3:09 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-05 09:48:26 AM
From that article, I can see the ruling may need work. From the headline, I can see that subby sounds fat.
 
2013-01-05 09:53:44 AM

St_Francis_P: I can see the ruling may need work


Or repeal.

St_Francis_P: I can see that subby sounds fat.


210. Down from a high of 270 (I'm 6'4").  Did it without this rule and still enjoy pizza as well. Go figure.
 
2013-01-05 09:58:22 AM
Clearly the flaw with this regulation is that it does not also mandate that calorie counts show up on the (also mandated) video screen on all telephones, both cellular and land-line, that are used to transmit orders to pizzerias.

Why do you oppose common-sense ideas such as this? How's about you see what it's like in Somalia if you don't like this idea?
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-05 10:08:32 AM
Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.
 
2013-01-05 10:14:01 AM

ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.


Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined.  Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza.  They order double, it's 8 ounces.  It's not difficult.
 
2013-01-05 10:31:50 AM
Calories in types of crust by size.

Calories in each topping.

This is just like goddamned rocket science.
 
2013-01-05 11:10:00 AM
They can have my pizza when they pry it from my cold, dead, fat fingers.
 
2013-01-05 11:41:11 AM
My ADD kicked in, and it didn't seem like the article was very clear to me.  Will it just be the large pizza chains like Papa John's and Pizza Hut or will it include small local places?
 
2013-01-05 11:50:20 AM
FTA:

"I think pizza places should label calories-really, they can figure out how to do it," New York University professor of public health Marion Nestle

Uh. Yeah. They can.

Case closed.
 
2013-01-05 11:50:58 AM

GAT_00: ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.

Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined.  Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza.  They order double, it's 8 ounces.  It's not difficult.


What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops
 
2013-01-05 11:55:44 AM

ArkAngel: What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops


The United States put a man on the moon in 1969, but goddamn it, this is just too much.
 
2013-01-05 12:02:31 PM
Wow people really need the government to tell them how to do everything. I can see how the anti-gun movement got rolling. You guys really don't question anything, do you? How hard is it to just not be a fatass?
 
2013-01-05 12:05:05 PM

duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?


The question authority generation has given way to the do as your told it's for the good of society generation.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-05 12:10:13 PM

duffblue: Wow people really need the government to tell them how to do everything. I can see how the anti-gun movement got rolling. You guys really don't question anything, do you? How hard is it to just not be a fatass?


Kind of difficult if you don't know what you are eating.  Why would anyone want something like that kept from them?
 
2013-01-05 12:13:19 PM

ArkAngel: GAT_00: ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.

Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined.  Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza.  They order double, it's 8 ounces.  It's not difficult.

What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops


Sure it is.  A label generator, Excel software, easy.  You can use Open Office, so no cost there.  Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box.  That's what, a minute of work, maybe?
 
2013-01-05 12:16:30 PM

duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?


I know!

F*cking nanny state libtardos. Why can't they eat whatever calorie-laden chemical bath is put in front of them. Now they want to know what's in it!

Stuck up ivory tower n0bama voters.
 
2013-01-05 12:23:49 PM

Rev.K: duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?

I know!

F*cking nanny state libtardos. Why can't they eat whatever calorie-laden chemical bath is put in front of them. Now they want to know what's in it!

Stuck up ivory tower n0bama voters.


Yawn. Stop being a moron.


Don't buy "pizza" from Papa John's and you will know what's in your pie.
 
2013-01-05 12:30:30 PM

GAT_00: A label generator, Excel software, easy. You can use Open Office, so no cost there. Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box. That's what, a minute of work, maybe?


Hey! I smell a business opportunity here. Perhaps an enterprising individual such as yourself could call on the local non chain joints and help them build these labels using all possible combinations and ingredients used. A minute or two per store with your laptop and a small fee later, they are in compliance! Win win man!
 
2013-01-05 12:33:18 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?

The question authority generation has given way to the do as your told it's for the good of society generation.



Yes... giving nutritional info to a nation of fatasses is truly terrible.
 
Pud [TotalFark]
2013-01-05 12:38:22 PM
I just want a farking pizza. I was told there would be no math.
 
2013-01-05 12:38:29 PM
See what I mean?

Blues_X: Yes... giving nutritional info to a nation of fatasses is truly terrible

 
2013-01-05 12:53:00 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: St_Francis_P: I can see the ruling may need work

Or repeal.


Why should it be repealed?  Should it be repealed solely as to pizza shops, or for all restaurants?

It seems like the free market crowd over at Reason (and here) should support more stringent labeling requirements. Y'know, since the supposedly greater efficiencies that come with free markets depend on (relatively) equ access to accurate information by consumers and between buyers and sellers. That is, if the free market crowd really supports free markets.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-05 01:00:47 PM

El_Perro: Dancin_In_Anson: St_Francis_P: I can see the ruling may need work

Or repeal.

Why should it be repealed?  Should it be repealed solely as to pizza shops, or for all restaurants?

It seems like the free market crowd over at Reason (and here) should support more stringent labeling requirements. Y'know, since the supposedly greater efficiencies that come with free markets depend on (relatively) equ access to accurate information by consumers and between buyers and sellers. That is, if the free market crowd really supports free markets.


Free market means that business are free to control the market, not that the market itself is free of manipulation.
 
2013-01-05 01:08:24 PM

El_Perro: It seems like the free market crowd over at Reason (and here) should support more stringent labeling requirements. Y'know, since the supposedly greater efficiencies that come with free markets depend on (relatively) equ access to accurate information by consumers and between buyers and sellers. That is, if the free market crowd really supports free markets.


Man oh man. You're a regular Milton Friedman!
 
2013-01-05 01:08:42 PM
i798.photobucket.com
Pizza warriors, fight back!
 
2013-01-05 01:12:19 PM
From the studies I've seen so far, menu labeling results in modest improvements in what people order at sit-down restaurants but does nothing to change the way people consume fast food.
 
2013-01-05 02:12:27 PM

GAT_00: Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined. Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza. They order double, it's 8 ounces. It's not difficult.


Actually yes it is, and it is a stupid law too.  Pizza is not the healthiest food one can consume, this is no mystery.

Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores.  So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt.  Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego.  So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni.  Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt.  And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

The issue here with this law, to be compliant is that every singe store needs to be able to calculate with what they have on hand, and according to this article, no one is really sure if HUGE ranges are allowed.  Furthermore, how is a range of 500 calories to 3700 calories going to do anyone any good?  The article also points out that most customers will never see the signage, which results in a huge waste of money, possible floorspace or sign space.

Does any of what I am saying make any sense?
 
2013-01-05 02:15:22 PM

Endive Wombat: Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores. So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt. Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego. So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni. Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt. And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.


So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned.  Oh no, the world has fallen down.
 
2013-01-05 02:17:24 PM

Hoban Washburne: My ADD kicked in, and it didn't seem like the article was very clear to me.  Will it just be the large pizza chains like Papa John's and Pizza Hut or will it include small local places?


My understanding is that it applies to those who have so many stores.  IIRC, and don't quote me on this, but I think 25 is the magic number.

Which brings us to an unintended consequence - The cost in opening up store number 26 has now risen dramatically as this law then requires an approx $5000 to be reinvested into each other store for new signage.  So in addition to the couple hundred thousand you may spend on opening up another store, now you are faced with an additional $125,000 cost that should not exist in the first place.
 
2013-01-05 02:18:52 PM

GAT_00: So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned. Oh no, the world has fallen down.


Got your business plan lined out yet?
 
2013-01-05 02:20:18 PM
I'm in favor of this.

It's the right to have knowledge of the properties of the food you eat. It should include calories.

This will not prevent any restaurant from selling any food, nor from any one buying what they want to eat.
 
2013-01-05 02:21:08 PM

GAT_00: ArkAngel: GAT_00: ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.

Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined.  Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza.  They order double, it's 8 ounces.  It's not difficult.

What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops

Sure it is.  A label generator, Excel software, easy.  You can use Open Office, so no cost there.  Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box.  That's what, a minute of work, maybe?


They already do this online. The question is whether they actual store locations should have to put calorie counts on their menu boards.
 
2013-01-05 02:23:43 PM

GAT_00: Endive Wombat: Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores. So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt. Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego. So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni. Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt. And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned.  Oh no, the world has fallen down.


It requires extra busy work that almost all customers will not care about.  Pizza is not healthy, its that simple.  Generally, eating out is not that healthy.  Do you want to know why restaurant food tastes so much better than what you make at home?  It's because they use 4x the butter and salt than you would use at home.  I am not trying to fight with you, I agree that on paper, this process seems easy, but there is a lot of extra work and expense that is burdensome to business.
 
2013-01-05 02:26:46 PM

Endive Wombat: GAT_00: Endive Wombat: Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores. So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt. Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego. So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni. Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt. And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned.  Oh no, the world has fallen down.

It requires extra busy work that almost all customers will not care about.  Pizza is not healthy, its that simple.  Generally, eating out is not that healthy.  Do you want to know why restaurant food tastes so much better than what you make at home?  It's because they use 4x the butter and salt than you would use at home.  I am not trying to fight with you, I agree that on paper, this process seems easy, but there is a lot of extra work and expense that is burdensome to business.


Also, this article has to do with the signage in store.  So changing numbers for a print out and your website, yes is easy...but with my example above, you are not going to reprint a sign because your vendor switched your mozzarella.
 
2013-01-05 02:29:40 PM

Endive Wombat: Endive Wombat: GAT_00: Endive Wombat: Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores. So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt. Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego. So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni. Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt. And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned.  Oh no, the world has fallen down.

It requires extra busy work that almost all customers will not care about.  Pizza is not healthy, its that simple.  Generally, eating out is not that healthy.  Do you want to know why restaurant food tastes so much better than what you make at home?  It's because they use 4x the butter and salt than you would use at home.  I am not trying to fight with you, I agree that on paper, this process seems easy, but there is a lot of extra work and expense that is burdensome to business.

Also, this article has to do with the signage in store.  So changing numbers for a print out and your website, yes is easy...but with my example above, you are not going to reprint a sign because your vendor switched your mozzarella.


Why not? Just send GAT in there with his magic laptop.
 
2013-01-05 02:30:07 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: GAT_00: A label generator, Excel software, easy. You can use Open Office, so no cost there. Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box. That's what, a minute of work, maybe?

Hey! I smell a business opportunity here. Perhaps an enterprising individual such as yourself could call on the local non chain joints and help them build these labels using all possible combinations and ingredients used. A minute or two per store with your laptop and a small fee later, they are in compliance! Win win man!


I have a friend who's father made a business making sure restaurants were in compliance to handicap and safety issues.

You who believe that Government creates no jobs forget that regulations often bring opportunities to those savvy enough to help business for a fee.

The lawyers learned this years ago...and has used the government to create jobs for them for years...
 
2013-01-05 02:34:14 PM

Endive Wombat: but there is a lot of extra work


Which is what I've been arguing against.  This is actually pretty simple to do.  What's more, there are businesses already doing this, such as this burger place.  Clearly, the work to set this up isn't all that burdensome.
 
2013-01-05 02:35:53 PM

Darth_Lukecash: It's the right to have knowledge of the properties of the food you eat.


It's also your right to not eat where you don't want to.

Let's look at it like this...You and I are trying to decide on where to gab some pie and suds. We can go to the joint up the road as they have some righteous offerings and a solid selection of craft brews but no mention of calories or Dominoes who has the calorie count of their tomato paste covered cardboard boxes and Dr Pepper on their menu.

What choice will you make....besides forcing the small joint via government fiat to go through the added expense of hiring GAT_00 to do their calorie analysis for them?
 
2013-01-05 02:36:59 PM

Darth_Lukecash: The lawyers learned this years ago...and has used the government to create jobs for them for years...


Yea?
 
2013-01-05 02:48:31 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Darth_Lukecash: It's the right to have knowledge of the properties of the food you eat.

It's also your right to not eat where you don't want to.

Let's look at it like this...You and I are trying to decide on where to gab some pie and suds. We can go to the joint up the road as they have some righteous offerings and a solid selection of craft brews but no mention of calories or Dominoes who has the calorie count of their tomato paste covered cardboard boxes and Dr Pepper on their menu.

What choice will you make....besides forcing the small joint via government fiat to go through the added expense of hiring GAT_00 to do their calorie analysis for them?


I like how you keep arguing that small businesses are incompetent and incapable of adapting to changing conditions.  Those small businesses must be really awesome.
 
2013-01-05 02:52:29 PM

GAT_00: Those small businesses must be really awesome.


They aren't operating at the margins that allow for "just a few extra minutes per meal" and can't while competing with the big guys.
 
2013-01-05 02:54:28 PM

GAT_00: I like how you keep arguing that small businesses are incompetent and incapable of adapting to changing conditions.


I said that where?

Yes, I'll wait.
 
2013-01-05 02:59:45 PM
Someone loves Obama, McDonalds, and long walks with short eyes.
 
2013-01-05 03:03:03 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: GAT_00: I like how you keep arguing that small businesses are incompetent and incapable of adapting to changing conditions.

I said that where?

Yes, I'll wait.


You think they can't manage to operate a spreadsheet without outsourcing it to someone else.

R.A.Danny: GAT_00: Those small businesses must be really awesome.

They aren't operating at the margins that allow for "just a few extra minutes per meal" and can't while competing with the big guys.


If they are that close to the red, they are unlikely to survive the next equipment failure anyway.
 
2013-01-05 03:04:09 PM
The Papa John's website displays nutrition information under each menu item

This is important for people like me who want to know the nutrition quality of white bread dipped in melted margarine mixed with salt.
 
2013-01-05 03:11:48 PM
F*ck you, it's f*cking pizza for f*ck's sake.
 
2013-01-05 03:12:11 PM

GAT_00: If they are that close to the red, they are unlikely to survive the next equipment failure anyway.


Screw 'em. Pizza Hut can always pick up those jobs.
 
2013-01-05 03:12:44 PM

GAT_00: Endive Wombat: Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores. So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt. Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego. So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni. Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt. And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned.  Oh no, the world has fallen down.


He's in every single thread

damn
 
2013-01-05 03:13:48 PM

R.A.Danny: GAT_00: If they are that close to the red, they are unlikely to survive the next equipment failure anyway.

Screw 'em. Pizza Hut can always pick up those jobs.


If operating a pre-set spreadsheet is too much for a business, how successful exactly do you think this business is?  How many jobs do you think they're creating?  What exactly do you think the lifespan of it is?
 
2013-01-05 03:14:47 PM

hbk72777: GAT_00: Endive Wombat: Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores. So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt. Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego. So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni. Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt. And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned.  Oh no, the world has fallen down.

He's in every single thread

damn


Yes, every thread being the three currently active threads I have posts in.  Oh no, I have an opinion, the world has fallen down.
 
2013-01-05 03:17:28 PM

GAT_00: You think they can't manage to operate a spreadsheet without outsourcing it to someone else.


McDonalds can put everything into their central dbs and distribute it at pennies on the dollar while single place can't count on the volume discount, and McDonalds won't need to pay any of their employees a decent wage.
 
2013-01-05 03:18:24 PM

GAT_00: R.A.Danny: GAT_00: If they are that close to the red, they are unlikely to survive the next equipment failure anyway.

Screw 'em. Pizza Hut can always pick up those jobs.

If operating a pre-set spreadsheet is too much for a business, how successful exactly do you think this business is?  How many jobs do you think they're creating?  What exactly do you think the lifespan of it is?


Just long enough for a bought and sold lawmaker to put another dagger in them.
 
2013-01-05 03:18:51 PM
I feel sorry for anyone who lives in an area where they have to eat Pizza from a chain restaurant.
 
2013-01-05 03:19:03 PM
Jeebus, how hard can this be?

Step 1: Make poster with nutritional data on it (like Micky-Dees does)
Step 2: Hang on wall (ditto)
Step 3: Profit

Questions?
 
2013-01-05 03:21:03 PM

R.A.Danny: GAT_00: R.A.Danny: GAT_00: If they are that close to the red, they are unlikely to survive the next equipment failure anyway.

Screw 'em. Pizza Hut can always pick up those jobs.

If operating a pre-set spreadsheet is too much for a business, how successful exactly do you think this business is?  How many jobs do you think they're creating?  What exactly do you think the lifespan of it is?

Just long enough for a bought and sold lawmaker to put another dagger in them.


And what's stopping that from happening already?
 
2013-01-05 03:21:08 PM
users.content.ytmnd.com
 
2013-01-05 03:21:14 PM

GAT_00: Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined. Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza. They order double, it's 8 ounces. It's not difficult.


FTA:
"With 34 million ways to make a pizza, it makes no common sense to require this industry-which already discloses calories voluntarily, for the most part-to attempt to cram this information on menu boards in small storefronts,"

/when I'm ordering a pizza, I'm not really worried about the caloric difference between sausage or Canadian bacon
//gimme both
///not fat
 
2013-01-05 03:21:21 PM

SuburbanCowboy: I feel sorry for anyone who lives in an area where they have to eat Pizza from a chain restaurant.


Hell yeah this.

Entrepreneurs in the food services put a hell of a lot of time in already. The upside can be pretty lucrative, but adding just another few minutes here, another few minutes there on someone working 14 hour days while a chain can count on it's bulk to take care of stuff is anti competitive.
 
2013-01-05 03:21:59 PM

GAT_00: And what's stopping that from happening already?


People with better taste in dining than you.
 
2013-01-05 03:22:41 PM
Holy shiat, just publish general caloric content for each ingredient and call it a day.
 
2013-01-05 03:22:44 PM

Gulper Eel: Clearly the flaw with this regulation is that it does not also mandate that calorie counts show up on the (also mandated) video screen on all telephones, both cellular and land-line, that are used to transmit orders to pizzerias.

Why do you oppose common-sense ideas such as this? How's about you see what it's like in Somalia if you don't like this idea?


The author of the article actually argues something like this would be better.
 
2013-01-05 03:23:21 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: St_Francis_P: I can see the ruling may need work

Or repeal.

St_Francis_P: I can see that subby sounds fat.

210. Down from a high of 270 (I'm 6'4").  Did it without this rule and still enjoy pizza as well. Go figure.


So you were obese, but now you're just fat.
 
2013-01-05 03:24:02 PM

Stone Meadow: Jeebus, how hard can this be?

Step 1: Make poster with nutritional data on it (like Micky-Dees does)
Step 2: Hang on wall (ditto)
Step 3: Profit

Questions?


No no, that $5 sign is "costly".
 
2013-01-05 03:24:34 PM
FTA: "In Blaer's case, her mother said she learned the name wasn't on the register only after the priest who baptized the child later informed her he had mistakenly allowed it."

Nice to see that religious freedom is now the province of the state. Do they license priests?
 
2013-01-05 03:24:53 PM
Want to be healthy? Don't eat fast food.

Want to be happy? Don't tolerate FAT government.
 
2013-01-05 03:26:12 PM

GAT_00: ArkAngel: GAT_00: ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.

Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined.  Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza.  They order double, it's 8 ounces.  It's not difficult.

What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops

Sure it is.  A label generator, Excel software, easy.  You can use Open Office, so no cost there.  Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box.  That's what, a minute of work, maybe?


I believe they also have to have it posted in the store. For all combinations. On the wall.
 
2013-01-05 03:26:24 PM
Oh, sorry, wrong thread - I only each frozen - want to make sure everything on it is dead.
 
2013-01-05 03:27:03 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: GAT_00: Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined. Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza. They order double, it's 8 ounces. It's not difficult.

FTA:
"With 34 million ways to make a pizza, it makes no common sense to require this industry-which already discloses calories voluntarily, for the most part-to attempt to cram this information on menu boards in small storefronts,"

/when I'm ordering a pizza, I'm not really worried about the caloric difference between sausage or Canadian bacon
//gimme both
///not fat


If you know the nutritional information of all the ingredients you keep on hand, how hard is it to add numbers?

R.A.Danny: GAT_00: And what's stopping that from happening already?

People with better taste in dining than you.


And there's where you denigrate to personal attacks because you can't explain why the use of a spreadsheet kills a business.
 
2013-01-05 03:28:11 PM

CujoQuarrel: I believe they also have to have it posted in the store. For all combinations. On the wall.


So post the counts of your standard items and the counts of each individual item you can add.
 
2013-01-05 03:28:40 PM

violentsalvation: [i798.photobucket.com image 500x318]
Pizza warriors, fight back!



I actually had this toy, and the turtle van with the cool spring loaded door that would give a good whack to whatever you put in its path.
 
2013-01-05 03:28:47 PM

Rufus Lee King: I have always felt that groups of black youths should be allowed to murder white pizza delivery guys, because of oppression, and all that.



That's obvious.

The question is whether these youths should have access to accurate information on the caloric content of the pizzas they steal.

"Do we eat the pizza, or just toss it and buy drugs with the money?"
 
2013-01-05 03:29:29 PM

Stone Meadow: Jeebus, how hard can this be?

Step 1: Make poster with nutritional data on it (like Micky-Dees does)
Step 2: Hang on wall (ditto)
Step 3: Profit

Questions?


Given the thousands or millions of different combinations of ingredients on a pizza, how large do you want this sign to be?
 
2013-01-05 03:29:32 PM
Step 1: Only sell large peperoni pizzas so you only have to give the calorie counts for one pizza.
Step 2: Write on all of your menus that Obama forced you to sell only large peperoni pizzas
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Profit
 
2013-01-05 03:29:38 PM
List all 34 million ways, in .pdf fornat
 
2013-01-05 03:29:52 PM
The DERP is strong in this one.

Forget about this useless krap and concentrate on finding out why beef has quadrupled in price since the late 70's, why chicken has tripled and why did it take years to force margarine companies to disclose that their no cholesterol versions actually created cholesterol when consumed.

Don't f**k with my Pizza! It's almost always fattening, usually contains the same amount of cholesterol as a Hungry Man's Big Breakfast (meaning enough to grease a battleship) and enough cheese to make the Dairy Industry rich, but it's delicious and I like it!

Besides, I'm smart enough to not eat the wonderful concoction every day.

Unfortunately, no one seems to notice that the assorted microwave breakfasts have enough fats, cholesterol, salts and sugars in them to last a construction worker for a week and those are pushed for daily consumption.

You're better off making your own bacon and eggs with hash browns at home. It's actually healthier.

I'd also like to remind you that during the last big 'unhealthy food' scare, various fats were attacked, which were then removed from assorted things like sausages, including processed meats, like Baloney. Especially Lebanon Baloney. To continue to make their products tasty enough for the fickle public, manufacturers replaced the fats with corn sugar.

Soon after, the cost of corn sugar nearly doubled and that increased the cost of the meats. Why did corn sugar go up? Because morons in congress approved grabbing around 1/3 of the corn crop to make ethanol fuel -- ignoring the fact that it can be made from nearly anything that grows.

Adding sugars to processed meats is so much healthier. Usually, when you do that, you need to increase the amount of salt added also.

Leave my olive oil drenched pizza alone! (Olive oil, BTW, is very healthy.)
 
2013-01-05 03:31:02 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Stone Meadow: Jeebus, how hard can this be?

Step 1: Make poster with nutritional data on it (like Micky-Dees does)
Step 2: Hang on wall (ditto)
Step 3: Profit

Questions?

No no, that $5 sign is "costly".


I have a friend that is a stay at home mom. She makes cookies, they are awesome. She makes a few bucks on the side while her kids are in school, and it is an honorable free enterprise business. High quality merchandise made in limited (she only has so much time) quantities.  This WILL cost her money, it will cut into a middle class families income, along with all the other "tiny" cuts to her income that keep coming in. Yes, the small business is absolutely dying the death of a thousand cuts, while huge corporate food service company, run by the 1% are picking up the slack with no worry about the time because those costs are distributed to the point of being negligible. This is the selling of the American dream and it is disgusting.
 
2013-01-05 03:31:46 PM
Now I just want some farking pizza.
 
2013-01-05 03:33:00 PM
You have a menu posted already, just put some got damned numbers after it.  It's not freaking rocket science, and yes they can get away with ranges (fast food places do it based on the sides you get with your Lardburger Supreme example 400-800 calories).  The only reason this information is scary to post is because, well it's scary when you think about  what you're throwing down your piehole.

 Before 1990 food labels didn't even have to list the basic nutitional info and frankly, I'm thankful for the change.
 
2013-01-05 03:33:02 PM

GAT_00: If you know the nutritional information of all the ingredients you keep on hand, how hard is it to add numbers?


It's not hard.
The question is, what would this regulation require?

xx calories per slice per ingredient? Not that hard.
xx calories per slice? Zillions of combinations.
 
2013-01-05 03:34:03 PM
If these laws stop my health insurance from increasing I am all for them.

/pizzeria owners can adapt or die
 
2013-01-05 03:34:28 PM

GAT_00: And there's where you denigrate to personal attacks because you can't explain why the use of a spreadsheet kills a business.


No, you're saying that quality can go to crap because small businesses are limited.
 
2013-01-05 03:35:03 PM

ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.


Animal nutritionists have been doing this on computers since the early '70s: An ingredient matrix (table), input nutrient levels desired, push button, voila!.Alternatively, put in ingredient amounts, calculate nutrient composition.

/still have programs (several) on home computer though retired a long time.
//Never use them - don't want to know what's in my pizza, just want a beer to go with it.
///When my pants get tight, I scale back my diet.
 
2013-01-05 03:35:51 PM
The article didn't specify (or I didn't see) how exact the labeling had to be. I would understand the whining if the labels had to be accurate down to the last calorie, but given a reasonable margin of error, the would be little or no extra cost to businesses, just 5 minutes of their time at the end of a day. For custom made pizzas, just have a list of the ingredients on the wall and let the customers figure it out. It's not that hard, really, you only need a guy like GAT_00 and a magic adding machine to make the lists in the first place.
 
2013-01-05 03:36:02 PM

Rik01: The DERP is strong in this one.

Forget about this useless krap and concentrate on finding out why beef has quadrupled in price since the late 70's, why chicken has tripled and

www.world-ostrich.org
greenecon.net
cfp-24-7.com


I think that about covers it.
 
2013-01-05 03:36:16 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: xx calories per slice per ingredient? Not that hard.
xx calories per slice? Zillions of combinations.


Then add a few more homemade items, change your menu periodically, come up with new recipes, start offering house made desserts. Every improvement is stifled along the way. Money is taken away from families. While Taco Bell isn't paying families crap to begin with.
 
2013-01-05 03:36:36 PM

CujoQuarrel: GAT_00: ArkAngel: GAT_00: ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.

Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined.  Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza.  They order double, it's 8 ounces.  It's not difficult.

What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops

Sure it is.  A label generator, Excel software, easy.  You can use Open Office, so no cost there.  Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box.  That's what, a minute of work, maybe?

I believe they also have to have it posted in the store. For all combinations. On the wall.


From http://www.fda.gov/Food/LabelingNutrit ion/ucm248732.htm:

"Calories would be disclosed on all menus and menu boards, including menu boards at drive-through locations. The term "Calories" or "Cal" would be required to be posted on menus and menu boards next to the number of calories.
Calorie information would be displayed clearly and prominently.
Calories for variable menu items, such as combination meals, would be displayed in ranges. An example of a combination meal could be a choice of sandwich, side dish and beverage.
For foods on display, calories would be listed per item or per serving on a sign next to the food.
For self-service foods, such as a salad bar in a restaurant, calories also would be listed per serving or per item on a sign next to the food."

So yeah, I doubt printing out a spreadsheet and taping it to a menu board behind the counter will work.
 
2013-01-05 03:37:11 PM

R.A.Danny: GAT_00: And there's where you denigrate to personal attacks because you can't explain why the use of a spreadsheet kills a business.

No, you're saying that quality can go to crap because small businesses are limited.


And now we bring out the strawmen in a pathetic attempt to change the topic because you can't win this one.
 
2013-01-05 03:37:39 PM
First They Came For My Soda, Then They Came For My Pizza
 
2013-01-05 03:39:25 PM
And this is probably all because someone ate fast food for breakfast, lunch, second lunch, pre dinner, dinner and supper, not knowing why they were having heart attacks every second thursday and could have really used all this info before both of their feet were amputated.

People that stupid are supposed to be the ones who die. We don't really need to protect people from themselves. We are going to have enough of a struggle with the limited amount of resources left on this planet as it is ...we don't need to carry more people with us into the future.
 
2013-01-05 03:39:26 PM

R.A.Danny: HotWingConspiracy: Stone Meadow: Jeebus, how hard can this be?

Step 1: Make poster with nutritional data on it (like Micky-Dees does)
Step 2: Hang on wall (ditto)
Step 3: Profit

Questions?

No no, that $5 sign is "costly".

I have a friend that is a stay at home mom. She makes cookies, they are awesome. She makes a few bucks on the side while her kids are in school, and it is an honorable free enterprise business. High quality merchandise made in limited (she only has so much time) quantities.  This WILL cost her money, it will cut into a middle class families income, along with all the other "tiny" cuts to her income that keep coming in. Yes, the small business is absolutely dying the death of a thousand cuts, while huge corporate food service company, run by the 1% are picking up the slack with no worry about the time because those costs are distributed to the point of being negligible. This is the selling of the American dream and it is disgusting.


So we should remove all regulations and forgo access to information about the food we purchase. It will maximize profit and preserve the American dream.

It doesn't really sound like she's competing on price with the conglomerates, the draw for her product is homemade and high quality. She can adjust pricing accordingly to comply with new reporting rules favored by the American public.
 
2013-01-05 03:39:50 PM
What I was seeking and didn't find in TFA is a clear statement on the rules that would require not just a table of calorie counts for each topping by pizza size, but instead a $5000 poster that would encompass all of the millions of combinations. All the chains use computerized registers as well as the biggest ones having Internet and even specific-app-driven ordering that could calculate calories/slice easily on any order. The real question then, as the former Domino's CEO and all around loudmouth tool said, is the in-store signage.

So what's the actual rule? Can they just tabulate information for each topping or not?
 
2013-01-05 03:41:37 PM

R.A.Danny: HotWingConspiracy: Stone Meadow: Jeebus, how hard can this be?

Step 1: Make poster with nutritional data on it (like Micky-Dees does)
Step 2: Hang on wall (ditto)
Step 3: Profit

Questions?

No no, that $5 sign is "costly".

I have a friend that is a stay at home mom. She makes cookies, they are awesome. She makes a few bucks on the side while her kids are in school, and it is an honorable free enterprise business. High quality merchandise made in limited (she only has so much time) quantities.  This WILL cost her money, it will cut into a middle class families income, along with all the other "tiny" cuts to her income that keep coming in. Yes, the small business is absolutely dying the death of a thousand cuts, while huge corporate food service company, run by the 1% are picking up the slack with no worry about the time because those costs are distributed to the point of being negligible. This is the selling of the American dream and it is disgusting.


There are exemptions made differing a cottage food business from a retail outlet.
 
2013-01-05 03:43:10 PM
ghey.
 
2013-01-05 03:43:35 PM

R.A.Danny: HotWingConspiracy: Stone Meadow: Jeebus, how hard can this be?

Step 1: Make poster with nutritional data on it (like Micky-Dees does)
Step 2: Hang on wall (ditto)
Step 3: Profit

Questions?

No no, that $5 sign is "costly".

I have a friend that is a stay at home mom. She makes cookies, they are awesome. She makes a few bucks on the side while her kids are in school, and it is an honorable free enterprise business. High quality merchandise made in limited (she only has so much time) quantities.  This WILL cost her money, it will cut into a middle class families income, along with all the other "tiny" cuts to her income that keep coming in. Yes, the small business is absolutely dying the death of a thousand cuts, while huge corporate food service company, run by the 1% are picking up the slack with no worry about the time because those costs are distributed to the point of being negligible. This is the selling of the American dream and it is disgusting.


Food labelling rules

Unless she's operating 20 chains out of her home, you can continue to stuff your fat farking piehole with her cookies all you want.
 
2013-01-05 03:43:39 PM
Giltric:

People that stupid are supposed to be the ones who die. We don't really need to protect people from themselves. We are going to have enough of a struggle with the limited amount of resources left on this planet as it is ...we don't need to carry more people with us into the future.

For an economy to grow it needs more consumers.  Besides, if these people die it will hurt fast food and health care jobs.
 
2013-01-05 03:43:46 PM
For Christ sake. Can we please just split this country in two, the USA and the USSA.
 
2013-01-05 03:47:35 PM
OK, here's the sign:

A single slice of pizza is between 150 and 500 calories, depending on toppings.


Prominently displayed online and in the store.
/satisfied?
 
2013-01-05 03:48:50 PM
Yes. Labeling food will stop people from eating it.

Just like telling smokers that it will give them cancer made everyone stop smoking.
 
2013-01-05 03:50:19 PM

fluffy2097: Yes. Labeling food will stop people from eating it.

Just like telling smokers that it will give them cancer made everyone stop smoking.


Obviously smoking hasn't declined in the last 30 years.
 
2013-01-05 03:50:38 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?

The question authority generation has given way to the do as your told it's for the good of society generation.


Ah then you mean by Generation Whiny Ass Cry Babies. By that I mean Generation Y.
 
2013-01-05 03:51:47 PM

HotWingConspiracy: So we should remove all regulations and forgo access to information about the food we purchase. It will maximize profit and preserve the American dream.


I never said that. I'm saying that there comes a point where these laws are being made to make it harder for the little guy to compete and not for any real assistance to the customer. By all means we should be protected, but do we need to be told pizza is fattening?
 
2013-01-05 03:51:54 PM
Thank God for David Kessler.
 
2013-01-05 03:52:04 PM

david_gaithersburg: For Christ sake. Can we please just split this country in two, the USA and the USSA.


All over pizza? Jesus Christ you guys are nothing but a bunch of whiners.
 
2013-01-05 03:52:49 PM

Freschel: Dancin_In_Anson: duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?

The question authority generation has given way to the do as your told it's for the good of society generation.

Ah then you mean by Generation Whiny Ass Cry Babies. By that I mean Generation Y business owners biatching about a small change that hasn't put them out of business in places where it's already required.



FTFY.
 
2013-01-05 03:54:44 PM

R.A.Danny: HotWingConspiracy: So we should remove all regulations and forgo access to information about the food we purchase. It will maximize profit and preserve the American dream.

I never said that. I'm saying that there comes a point where these laws are being made to make it harder for the little guy to compete and not for any real assistance to the customer. By all means we should be protected, but do we need to be told pizza is fattening?


I'm pretty indifferent. I really don't care one way or another.

If businesses can't adapt to something like nutritional facts, then they're going to have trouble adapting to a lot of other things too.

The only way a business can succeed is if can keep up and keep adapting to changing trends and other economic/political conditions.
 
2013-01-05 03:54:49 PM
media.reason.com
Not a single comment about when life begins. I've been away from Fark for a while now, but have things changed that much?
 
2013-01-05 03:55:58 PM
Thanks Obama!
 
2013-01-05 03:56:31 PM
I wish we'd had calorie-content labeling 50 years ago, and so does my ass. Just last night at a popular, fairly healthy-food chain restaurant, I switched from the 1100 calorie sandwich to the 275 calorie salad.

I eat pizza about twice a year...and the labeling would probably help me eliminate that little indulgence.
 
2013-01-05 03:56:58 PM

GAT_00: You think they can't manage to operate a spreadsheet without outsourcing it to someone else.


No, I think that someone with your incredible  knowledge of the subject matter should take the initiative and make some scratch while letting these people continue to practice their trade. It's a win win for all!

I know some folks in the business. Since these threads are time stamped, it would give you a great opportunity to show your stuff.

Here's a simple pizza dough recipe (they make theirs from scratch)

1 teaspoon sugar 1 envelope instant dry yeast 2 teaspoons kosher salt1 1/2 cups water, 110 degrees F, 2 tablespoons olive oil, plus 2 teaspoons
Sauce:
1 (4-ounce) can tomato paste1 1/2 cups water 1/3 cup extra virgin olive oil 2 cloves minced garlic, Salt and pepper, 1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh oregano leaves,1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh basil leaves, 1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh rosemary leaves

I'm not sure what brand of cheese(s) they use but you can pick one at your leisure and go with that. I'd say what? 1/2 cup per 12" pie? They also have about 20 different toppings...you can pick 10 of your favorites. Their pies come in 12" 14" and 18".  Let's see how fast you can come up with nutrition labels for all possible sizes and combinations and get them all posted here. I'll take a screen cap and get it over to the owners and show them that you have the skills to do this in just minutes and they can hire you (for a retainer fee) to help maintain and keep current with the regs or for a one time fee you can show them how easy it is!

Hell, I like you so much I won't even charge you a  for the idea!
 
2013-01-05 03:58:12 PM
Numbers are too hard. What we need is a color coded chart that starts blue for low cal thru red for high cal. Like a terror alert for your fat ass.
 
2013-01-05 03:58:16 PM

pharmacide: CujoQuarrel: GAT_00: ArkAngel: GAT_00: ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.

Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined.  Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza.  They order double, it's 8 ounces.  It's not difficult.

What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops

Sure it is.  A label generator, Excel software, easy.  You can use Open Office, so no cost there.  Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box.  That's what, a minute of work, maybe?

I believe they also have to have it posted in the store. For all combinations. On the wall.

From http://www.fda.gov/Food/LabelingNutrit ion/ucm248732.htm:

"Calories would be disclosed on all menus and menu boards, including menu boards at drive-through locations. The term "Calories" or "Cal" would be required to be posted on menus and menu boards next to the number of calories.
Calorie information would be displayed clearly and prominently.
Calories for variable menu items, such as combination meals, would be displayed in ranges. An example of a combination meal could be a choice of sandwich, side dish and beverage.
For foods on display, calories would be listed per item or per serving on a sign next to the food.
For self-service foods, such as a salad bar in a restaurant, calories also would be listed per serving or per item on a sign next to the food."

So yeah, I doubt printing out a spreadsheet and taping it to a menu board behind the counter will work.


Clearly and prominently offers a lot of latitude for interpretation.
 
2013-01-05 04:01:15 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: GAT_00: You think they can't manage to operate a spreadsheet without outsourcing it to someone else.

No, I think that someone with your incredible  knowledge of the subject matter should take the initiative and make some scratch while letting these people continue to practice their trade. It's a win win for all!

I know some folks in the business. Since these threads are time stamped, it would give you a great opportunity to show your stuff.

Here's a simple pizza dough recipe (they make theirs from scratch)

1 teaspoon sugar 1 envelope instant dry yeast 2 teaspoons kosher salt1 1/2 cups water, 110 degrees F, 2 tablespoons olive oil, plus 2 teaspoons
Sauce:
1 (4-ounce) can tomato paste1 1/2 cups water 1/3 cup extra virgin olive oil 2 cloves minced garlic, Salt and pepper, 1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh oregano leaves,1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh basil leaves, 1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh rosemary leaves

I'm not sure what brand of cheese(s) they use but you can pick one at your leisure and go with that. I'd say what? 1/2 cup per 12" pie? They also have about 20 different toppings...you can pick 10 of your favorites. Their pies come in 12" 14" and 18".  Let's see how fast you can come up with nutrition labels for all possible sizes and combinations and get them all posted here. I'll take a screen cap and get it over to the owners and show them that you have the skills to do this in just minutes and they can hire you (for a retainer fee) to help maintain and keep current with the regs or for a one time fee you can show them how easy it is!

Hell, I like you so much I won't even charge you a  for the idea!


Can't they just do a calorie count for each topping?
 
2013-01-05 04:01:23 PM

Mrtraveler01: david_gaithersburg: For Christ sake. Can we please just split this country in two, the USA and the USSA.

All over pizza? Jesus Christ you guys are nothing but a bunch of whiners.


It's not just pizza...you guys were really mean to Bush when he was in office and we will never forgive you. And when the civil wa...hold on a second I'm getting cheeseburger grease all over keyboard...K as I was saying when the civil war happens you will be sorry you messed with us, because we are the perfectly built human soldiers and fark oh god I just spilled my Dr pepper EVERYWHERE and it was a farking full 64 oz cup god brb
 
2013-01-05 04:01:56 PM
I'd better have them start cutting my pizzas in six slices because I shouldn't eat eight slices.
 
2013-01-05 04:02:29 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: OK, here's the sign:

A single slice of pizza is between 150 and 500 calories, depending on toppings.

Prominently displayed online and in the store.
/satisfied?


Yup.
Gonna print some out and give them to the local non-chain pizza joints.
 
2013-01-05 04:03:14 PM
Did anyone bother to point out that this only applies to chain restaurants with more than 20 locations? A lot of small restaurants already do this as a courtesy for their patrons. Obviously this has crushed them.
 
2013-01-05 04:03:15 PM

wildcardjack: I'd better have them start cutting my pizzas in six slices because I shouldn't eat eight slices.


smart
it's all about eating more

gonna order a pizza and having it cut in no slices, so i just swallow the pie whole
 
2013-01-05 04:05:02 PM
If you are unable to make healthy diet decisions by yourself, vote for those who will. Our government only has our best interests in mind, right guys? The NDAA and PATRIOT Act were good ideas too, clearly you are a fool for questioning Gat. It's not his fault he uses a mobility scooter, it was those evil small businesses who force fed him pizza at gun point.
 
2013-01-05 04:05:09 PM
Two words: upon request. Gives those want know the info and the rest of us can go on not micro-managing every event in our lives.
 
2013-01-05 04:05:16 PM

Fart_Machine: Did anyone bother to point out that this only applies to chain restaurants with more than 20 locations? A lot of small restaurants already do this as a courtesy for their patrons. Obviously this has crushed them.


This is still the worst thing the US has seen since the war of Northern Aggression.
 
2013-01-05 04:05:23 PM

Mrtraveler01: If businesses can't adapt to something like nutritional facts, then they're going to have trouble adapting to a lot of other things too.


It's just one way corporations make lobby for innocent little insignificant changes. Then just a few more, then a few more. They can absorb the costs. Their competition can for a while, but in the end their production is cut, the competition is cut, and small businesses are quashed. It isn't the calories in pizza, it isn't the specialized labeling, it isn't another ten laws down the road,m it is the cumulative effect. This is exactly what big business is doing, and they are doing it for a reason.
 
2013-01-05 04:06:29 PM

Mrtraveler01: All over pizza? Jesus Christ you guys are nothing but a bunch of whiners.


um... it's more about the growing government and taxes, brah -- the inefficiency of government programs to do things right, the pro-incompetent people hiring practices the government uses... at this point we pretty much want huge cuts in government, not additional rules, regulations, programs, of any kind, be it a tax hike or additional thing like this pizza thing -- they'll probably hire 100 people to handle this pizza stuff and cost US business owners millions in time and money just to get it done - it's not necessary and little things like this all add up to the extreme gheyness we are becoming.
 
2013-01-05 04:07:46 PM

R.A.Danny: Mrtraveler01: If businesses can't adapt to something like nutritional facts, then they're going to have trouble adapting to a lot of other things too.

It's just one way corporations make lobby for innocent little insignificant changes. Then just a few more, then a few more. They can absorb the costs. Their competition can for a while, but in the end their production is cut, the competition is cut, and small businesses are quashed. It isn't the calories in pizza, it isn't the specialized labeling, it isn't another ten laws down the road,m it is the cumulative effect. This is exactly what big business is doing, and they are doing it for a reason.


If you are a chain with more than 20 locations you're not a small business.
 
2013-01-05 04:08:12 PM

Mrtraveler01: Can't they just do a calorie count for each topping?


And then how much topping per each size and variety of pie not to mention everything else that goes into the product and God forbid you have the audacity to try different crusts with different ingredients...

How ya comin' GAT? By my count it's been 12-13 minutes. Ya done yet?
 
2013-01-05 04:08:15 PM

Fart_Machine: Did anyone bother to point out that this only applies to chain restaurants with more than 20 locations? A lot of small restaurants already do this as a courtesy for their patrons. Obviously this has crushed them.


Most chains do this anyway, the argument is why it must be required? It's not going to make health insurance premiums lower, and not going to stop fat asses from being a drain on the system. We taxed the shiat out of cigarettes maybe it's time we add a 300% tax on fast food.
 
2013-01-05 04:11:56 PM

duffblue: Most chains do this anyway, the argument is why it must be required?


Then in that case, if it's already being done, then what's the problem with making it required then if they're already doing it?
 
2013-01-05 04:12:53 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: And then how much topping per each size and variety of pie not to mention everything else that goes into the product and God forbid you have the audacity to try different crusts with different ingredients...


Does it actually require the calorie count things to be that precise, or is this a bunch of hyperbole?
 
2013-01-05 04:15:08 PM
The people that think this is a good idea are the same people that will continue to purchase their pizza from their favorite pizza parlor with out ever once being concerned with what is on the label.
 
2013-01-05 04:16:34 PM

Mrtraveler01: Does it actually require the calorie count things to be that precise, or is this a bunch of hyperbole?


If it's not precise, why even bother?
 
2013-01-05 04:16:42 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: The people that think this is a good idea are the same people that will continue to purchase their pizza from their favorite pizza parlor with out ever once being concerned with what is on the label.


Like I said, I really don't care either way.

Is apathy the same as thinking this is a good idea?
 
2013-01-05 04:17:22 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Mrtraveler01: Does it actually require the calorie count things to be that precise, or is this a bunch of hyperbole?

If it's not precise, why even bother?


That doesn't really answer my initial question though.
 
2013-01-05 04:18:36 PM

Mrtraveler01: Dancin_In_Anson: Mrtraveler01: Does it actually require the calorie count things to be that precise, or is this a bunch of hyperbole?

If it's not precise, why even bother?

That doesn't really answer my initial question though.


Combo meals have a range so no.
 
2013-01-05 04:18:59 PM

Mrtraveler01: Dancin_In_Anson: And then how much topping per each size and variety of pie not to mention everything else that goes into the product and God forbid you have the audacity to try different crusts with different ingredients...

Does it actually require the calorie count things to be that precise, or is this a bunch of hyperbole?


Because it's a waste of money.
 
2013-01-05 04:19:50 PM

Stone Meadow: Step 1: Make poster with nutritional data on it (like Micky-Dees does)


Step 1 would require every possible combination of toppings based on their available toppings, the number of toppings that can be added to pizza, and every topping that could be removed from a pizza.

Step 1 is going to take a while, and a rather large sign.
 
2013-01-05 04:20:01 PM

Mrtraveler01: duffblue: Most chains do this anyway, the argument is why it must be required?

Then in that case, if it's already being done, then what's the problem with making it required then if they're already doing it?


Because Reason is disingenuous.
 
2013-01-05 04:20:03 PM
If you are ordering a pizza, chances are you don't give a shiat about how many calories it has.
 
2013-01-05 04:22:00 PM
I am a small, family pizza rancher from Texas. How am I supposed to know how many calories are in the feral hogs I shoot and serve? I can barely read or write; how can you force me to work with them Arab numbers? Do I have to change the sign if there are extra bullets in the hog, or can I just put up a sign with the number of calories per bullet? Thanks for driving me out of business with your usurping regulations, n0bama. At least you can't raise my taxes now.
 
2013-01-05 04:22:24 PM
Hence my latest invention ass5's "assault pizza".
 
2013-01-05 04:23:16 PM

Fart_Machine: Mrtraveler01: Dancin_In_Anson: Mrtraveler01: Does it actually require the calorie count things to be that precise, or is this a bunch of hyperbole?

If it's not precise, why even bother?

That doesn't really answer my initial question though.

Combo meals have a range so no.


Ah, as I figured.

Reason just wanted another thing to biatch about.
 
2013-01-05 04:24:07 PM

Fart_Machine: Did anyone bother to point out that this only applies to chain restaurants with more than 20 locations? A lot of small restaurants already do this as a courtesy for their patrons. Obviously this has crushed them.


From what I can tell, the issue is that the signage needs to be for EVERY possible combination - apparently that means (according to the article's numbers) each location will need to display the calorie content for every single possible combination of ingredients.  Can you conceptualize how large of a sign(s) would have to be to list every single possible iteration?  That is the main issue at hand.  Now think about having to change this football stadium sized sign because of a minor tweak in a recipe or change of ingredient.
 
2013-01-05 04:24:51 PM

duffblue: Wow people really need the government to tell them how to do everything. I can see how the anti-gun movement got rolling. You guys really don't question anything, do you? How hard is it to just not be a fatass?



You sound racist just like everybody else who opposes a government policy or owns a gun. What right do you have to enjoy a pizza when there are so many out there that cannot. You need fat acceptance training. You are one one of those 1% eaters who care little about he suffering of the obese 99%

Nowadays people would rather be cared for than be free as those burdens that come with freedom, self responsibility, self reliance and using some common sense, are just to heavy to carry.

Obamacare, for those who were really paying attention, was not about providing people with a bunch of "free stuff" but expanding government power. After all if government is funding your healthcare shouldn't they be able to control costs by controlling your lifestyle?

I wonder if they can stiil sell you your pizza if the label printer with nutritional information is offline?

Off course the real objective is to eliminate stuff like pizza as a choice in the first place

Enjoy your Kale citizen

s3.media.squarespace.com

dailybleach.com
 
2013-01-05 04:27:23 PM

Mrtraveler01: Psycoholic_Slag: The people that think this is a good idea are the same people that will continue to purchase their pizza from their favorite pizza parlor with out ever once being concerned with what is on the label.

Like I said, I really don't care either way.

Is apathy the same as thinking this is a good idea?


It gives the same results. Government imposing an unnecessary law on businesses that will result in prices going up? Meh, I don't care!
 
2013-01-05 04:28:41 PM

Endive Wombat: Fart_Machine: Did anyone bother to point out that this only applies to chain restaurants with more than 20 locations? A lot of small restaurants already do this as a courtesy for their patrons. Obviously this has crushed them.

From what I can tell, the issue is that the signage needs to be for EVERY possible combination - apparently that means (according to the article's numbers) each location will need to display the calorie content for every single possible combination of ingredients.  Can you conceptualize how large of a sign(s) would have to be to list every single possible iteration?  That is the main issue at hand.  Now think about having to change this football stadium sized sign because of a minor tweak in a recipe or change of ingredient.


If you've ever been to a restaurant that already does this they really don't. Specialty pizzas already have pre-set toppings and providing a range is enough to satisfy the other requirement like McDonald's does with combo meals. They haven't fined the chain because it doesn't give the precise calorie count if you leave off a particular condiment.
 
2013-01-05 04:29:41 PM

hasty ambush: duffblue: Wow people really need the government to tell them how to do everything. I can see how the anti-gun movement got rolling. You guys really don't question anything, do you? How hard is it to just not be a fatass?


You sound racist just like everybody else who opposes a government policy or owns a gun. What right do you have to enjoy a pizza when there are so many out there that cannot. You need fat acceptance training. You are one one of those 1% eaters who care little about he suffering of the obese 99%

Nowadays people would rather be cared for than be free as those burdens that come with freedom, self responsibility, self reliance and using some common sense, are just to heavy to carry.

Obamacare, for those who were really paying attention, was not about providing people with a bunch of "free stuff" but expanding government power. After all if government is funding your healthcare shouldn't they be able to control costs by controlling your lifestyle?

I wonder if they can stiil sell you your pizza if the label printer with nutritional information is offline?

Off course the real objective is to eliminate stuff like pizza as a choice in the first place

Enjoy your Kale citizen

[s3.media.squarespace.com image 700x443]

[dailybleach.com image 350x353]


0/10

Sad and pitiful display of trolling we're seeing here today.
 
2013-01-05 04:30:23 PM

Mrtraveler01: Dancin_In_Anson: GAT_00: You think they can't manage to operate a spreadsheet without outsourcing it to someone else.

No, I think that someone with your incredible  knowledge of the subject matter should take the initiative and make some scratch while letting these people continue to practice their trade. It's a win win for all!

I know some folks in the business. Since these threads are time stamped, it would give you a great opportunity to show your stuff.

Here's a simple pizza dough recipe (they make theirs from scratch)

1 teaspoon sugar 1 envelope instant dry yeast 2 teaspoons kosher salt1 1/2 cups water, 110 degrees F, 2 tablespoons olive oil, plus 2 teaspoons
Sauce:
1 (4-ounce) can tomato paste1 1/2 cups water 1/3 cup extra virgin olive oil 2 cloves minced garlic, Salt and pepper, 1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh oregano leaves,1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh basil leaves, 1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh rosemary leaves

I'm not sure what brand of cheese(s) they use but you can pick one at your leisure and go with that. I'd say what? 1/2 cup per 12" pie? They also have about 20 different toppings...you can pick 10 of your favorites. Their pies come in 12" 14" and 18".  Let's see how fast you can come up with nutrition labels for all possible sizes and combinations and get them all posted here. I'll take a screen cap and get it over to the owners and show them that you have the skills to do this in just minutes and they can hire you (for a retainer fee) to help maintain and keep current with the regs or for a one time fee you can show them how easy it is!

Hell, I like you so much I won't even charge you a  for the idea!

Can't they just do a calorie count for each topping?


No, his friends are lazy and stupid it seems.
 
2013-01-05 04:30:49 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: Mrtraveler01: Psycoholic_Slag: The people that think this is a good idea are the same people that will continue to purchase their pizza from their favorite pizza parlor with out ever once being concerned with what is on the label.

Like I said, I really don't care either way.

Is apathy the same as thinking this is a good idea?

It gives the same results. Government imposing an unnecessary law on businesses that will result in prices going up? Meh, I don't care!


How is making a sign going to increase the cost of my pizza?

This is why I don't care, because you tools haven't given me a good reason to beside "OMGZ Government bad".
 
2013-01-05 04:31:34 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: Government imposing an unnecessary law on businesses that will result in prices going up?


How come prices didn't go up at the places that did it voluntarily?
 
2013-01-05 04:32:49 PM

cousin-merle: I am a small, family pizza rancher from Texas. How am I supposed to know how many calories are in the feral hogs I shoot and serve? I can barely read or write; how can you force me to work with them Arab numbers? Do I have to change the sign if there are extra bullets in the hog, or can I just put up a sign with the number of calories per bullet? Thanks for driving me out of business with your usurping regulations, n0bama. At least you can't raise my taxes now.


"And my follow up question is for Governor Romney. Governor Romney, your campaign seems to have the momentum of a runaway freight train. How are you so popular?"
 
2013-01-05 04:33:52 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?

The question authority generation has given way to the do as your told it's for the good of society generation.


Which generation is going to tell authority what it can do with all the useless regulations we have? Has Generation X finally found a purpose?

...other than to get stoned of course.
 
2013-01-05 04:35:01 PM

Blues_X: Dancin_In_Anson: duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?

The question authority generation has given way to the do as your told it's for the good of society generation.


Yes... giving nutritional info to a nation of fatasses is truly terrible.


Not that I expect the lard butt guys and human Bon Bon women to care...

I'm not perfect either in this case. I started off, as my friend put it, at 19 stone (265lbs) and have worked my fata$$ down to within spitting distance of 12.5 stone (175lbs), with less than 1.5 stone to go. No more spare tractor tire on this 5'11" frame.

I put of the excess 6 stone after my accident left me in a wheelchair for a year and I didn't change my eating habits. My own stupid fault. I went from running, et al., which let me burn 2600-3000 calories a day to basically burning 1100 in a very sedentary state. This hasn't been easy, but the looks I get are worth it overall. I'm getting hit one by women half my age.

/if only I wasn't married
//my wife is a great woman
 
2013-01-05 04:35:44 PM

Mrtraveler01: That doesn't really answer my initial question though.


Fart_Machine: Combo meals have a range so no.


So...what use is this then if it's not precise?

Mrtraveler01: Reason just wanted another thing to biatch about.


I wonder what the cost in taxpayer money was to come up with this kind of ambiguous regulation that will more than likely be ignored by the patrons of the businesses that have to spend the funds to comply...not to mention the apparatus that will need to be put into place to ensure compliance and enforcement of said ambiguity.

Oh, wait, it won't cost business anything more than a few minutes, right GAT?
 
2013-01-05 04:36:16 PM

Fart_Machine: Endive Wombat: Fart_Machine: Did anyone bother to point out that this only applies to chain restaurants with more than 20 locations? A lot of small restaurants already do this as a courtesy for their patrons. Obviously this has crushed them.

From what I can tell, the issue is that the signage needs to be for EVERY possible combination - apparently that means (according to the article's numbers) each location will need to display the calorie content for every single possible combination of ingredients.  Can you conceptualize how large of a sign(s) would have to be to list every single possible iteration?  That is the main issue at hand.  Now think about having to change this football stadium sized sign because of a minor tweak in a recipe or change of ingredient.

If you've ever been to a restaurant that already does this they really don't. Specialty pizzas already have pre-set toppings and providing a range is enough to satisfy the other requirement like McDonald's does with combo meals. They haven't fined the chain because it doesn't give the precise calorie count if you leave off a particular condiment.


But the article even points out that there is conflicting information as to whether or not caloric ranges are going to be allowed.  So, if they are, this is not as big of a deal...but if they are not, then you are stuck with putting up signs with 34M iterations.
 
2013-01-05 04:37:35 PM

Endive Wombat: Fart_Machine: Endive Wombat: Fart_Machine: Did anyone bother to point out that this only applies to chain restaurants with more than 20 locations? A lot of small restaurants already do this as a courtesy for their patrons. Obviously this has crushed them.

From what I can tell, the issue is that the signage needs to be for EVERY possible combination - apparently that means (according to the article's numbers) each location will need to display the calorie content for every single possible combination of ingredients.  Can you conceptualize how large of a sign(s) would have to be to list every single possible iteration?  That is the main issue at hand.  Now think about having to change this football stadium sized sign because of a minor tweak in a recipe or change of ingredient.

If you've ever been to a restaurant that already does this they really don't. Specialty pizzas already have pre-set toppings and providing a range is enough to satisfy the other requirement like McDonald's does with combo meals. They haven't fined the chain because it doesn't give the precise calorie count if you leave off a particular condiment.

But the article even points out that there is conflicting information as to whether or not caloric ranges are going to be allowed.  So, if they are, this is not as big of a deal...but if they are not, then you are stuck with putting up signs with 34M iterations.


I'm going to have to do more research outside of "Reason" before I can form an opinion about this.
 
2013-01-05 04:38:57 PM

inglixthemad: Not that I expect the lard butt guys and human Bon Bon women to care...


Next up: The "We Will Make You Care and You Will Like it Because it's For The Good of Society Act".
 
2013-01-05 04:39:53 PM

stevarooni: Stone Meadow: Step 1: Make poster with nutritional data on it (like Micky-Dees does)

Step 1 would require every possible combination of toppings based on their available toppings, the number of toppings that can be added to pizza, and every topping that could be removed from a pizza.

Step 1 is going to take a while, and a rather large sign.


Nah, you're making it too hard. Just list all the ingredients and let people add up the calories...like this:

Dough xxx calories
Sauce xx calories
Base cheese xxx calories
Added cheese
Salami, sausage, etc.
Mushrooms, onions, veggies...

Besides, the place I buy my pizza at has only about a dozen menu combos. Since I see them weigh the ingredients as they add them to the pizza I know they know the caloric content. Putting the total/per slice on the menu is trivial.
 
2013-01-05 04:40:15 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Mrtraveler01: That doesn't really answer my initial question though.

Fart_Machine: Combo meals have a range so no.

So...what use is this then if it's not precise?

Mrtraveler01: Reason just wanted another thing to biatch about.

I wonder what the cost in taxpayer money was to come up with this kind of ambiguous regulation that will more than likely be ignored by the patrons of the businesses that have to spend the funds to comply...not to mention the apparatus that will need to be put into place to ensure compliance and enforcement of said ambiguity.

Oh, wait, it won't cost business anything more than a few minutes, right GAT?


So you believe calorie count has to be exact to be effective? No wonder you're fat.
 
2013-01-05 04:43:56 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Psycoholic_Slag: Government imposing an unnecessary law on businesses that will result in prices going up?

How come prices didn't go up at the places that did it voluntarily?


I'm basing my post from info in TFA:

"Those costs can range upwards of $5,000 per franchise location. The cost to grocers-a cost that, as with pizza, would no doubt be passed on to consumers in the form of higher food costs-would be even greater.

Why so costly?

"With 34 million ways to make a pizza, it makes no common sense to require this industry-which already discloses calories voluntarily, for the most part-to attempt to cram this information on menu boards in small storefronts," says Lynn Liddle, who chairs the American Pizza Community, a coalition representing much of the American pizza industry, in an email to me."


If this assertion is in fact incorrect I am willing to entertain another view. But for now, this is what I'm working with.
 
2013-01-05 04:46:41 PM

ultraholland: Holy shiat, just publish general caloric content for each ingredient and call it a day.


This.
 
2013-01-05 04:49:56 PM
Well, I know what I'm having for lunch.
 
2013-01-05 04:50:43 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: HotWingConspiracy: Psycoholic_Slag: Government imposing an unnecessary law on businesses that will result in prices going up?

How come prices didn't go up at the places that did it voluntarily?

I'm basing my post from info in TFA:

"Those costs can range upwards of $5,000 per franchise location. The cost to grocers-a cost that, as with pizza, would no doubt be passed on to consumers in the form of higher food costs-would be even greater.

Why so costly?

"With 34 million ways to make a pizza, it makes no common sense to require this industry-which already discloses calories voluntarily, for the most part-to attempt to cram this information on menu boards in small storefronts," says Lynn Liddle, who chairs the American Pizza Community, a coalition representing much of the American pizza industry, in an email to me."

If this assertion is in fact incorrect I am willing to entertain another view. But for now, this is what I'm working with.


That's an opinion. Prices didn't go up at the places that volunteered to do this prior to any law being implemented.
 
2013-01-05 04:53:59 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: I'm basing my post from info in TFA:


There's your problem.
 
2013-01-05 04:55:24 PM
That's when I called the law firm of Ben Jarvus Green Ellis, and they were able to get me 29 yards.
 
2013-01-05 04:55:59 PM
Oops, I got football in a pizza thread
 
2013-01-05 04:56:50 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Psycoholic_Slag: HotWingConspiracy: Psycoholic_Slag: Government imposing an unnecessary law on businesses that will result in prices going up?

How come prices didn't go up at the places that did it voluntarily?

I'm basing my post from info in TFA:

"Those costs can range upwards of $5,000 per franchise location. The cost to grocers-a cost that, as with pizza, would no doubt be passed on to consumers in the form of higher food costs-would be even greater.

Why so costly?

"With 34 million ways to make a pizza, it makes no common sense to require this industry-which already discloses calories voluntarily, for the most part-to attempt to cram this information on menu boards in small storefronts," says Lynn Liddle, who chairs the American Pizza Community, a coalition representing much of the American pizza industry, in an email to me."

If this assertion is in fact incorrect I am willing to entertain another view. But for now, this is what I'm working with.

That's an opinion. Prices didn't go up at the places that volunteered to do this prior to any law being implemented.


You didn't read TFA did you? They are proposing even MORE information to be posted such as the calorie count of every possible pizza combination available. This is not the same as a Point of Sale poster up on your wall. If that was not the point of the article please enlighten me.
 
2013-01-05 05:02:14 PM

Mrtraveler01: Psycoholic_Slag: I'm basing my post from info in TFA:

There's your problem.


Beats pulling my opinion out of my ass.
 
2013-01-05 05:03:07 PM
Kalifornia.... The England of the United States.

We are safe cause we are afraid of guns. No, we're not the murder capital of the nation, there are a couple states in front of us.. They are afraid of guns too.

Please Kalifornia, tell us how to live because you're obviously Soooooo much smarter than the rest of us.
What?
I can't hear you over the sound of your fiscal imcompetence and bankruptcy.
 
2013-01-05 05:03:36 PM

Fart_Machine: fluffy2097: Yes. Labeling food will stop people from eating it.

Just like telling smokers that it will give them cancer made everyone stop smoking.

Obviously smoking hasn't declined in the last 30 years.


Yes, well if you make food 5 times more expensive, I'm sure there will be more people too poor to be fat as well.
 
2013-01-05 05:05:36 PM

Fart_Machine: So you believe calorie count has to be exact to be effective?


Well, let's see. Breakfast was either 300 or 800 calories. Lunch was 700 or 1200. Supper 900 or 1400.  So my intake for the day was 1900 or 3400...That's helpful! Thanks FDA! What do I owe you?

Fart_Machine: No wonder you're fat.


Heh!

Dancin_In_Anson: 210. Down from a high of 270 (I'm 6'4"). Did it without this rule and still enjoy pizza as well. Go figure.


Keep trying!
 
2013-01-05 05:06:18 PM

hasty ambush: duffblue: Wow people really need the government to tell them how to do everything. I can see how the anti-gun movement got rolling. You guys really don't question anything, do you? How hard is it to just not be a fatass?


You sound racist just like everybody else who opposes a government policy or owns a gun. What right do you have to enjoy a pizza when there are so many out there that cannot. You need fat acceptance training. You are one one of those 1% eaters who care little about he suffering of the obese 99%

Nowadays people would rather be cared for than be free as those burdens that come with freedom, self responsibility, self reliance and using some common sense, are just to heavy to carry.

Obamacare, for those who were really paying attention, was not about providing people with a bunch of "free stuff" but expanding government power. After all if government is funding your healthcare shouldn't they be able to control costs by controlling your lifestyle?

I wonder if they can stiil sell you your pizza if the label printer with nutritional information is offline?

Off course the real objective is to eliminate stuff like pizza as a choice in the first place

Enjoy your Kale citizen

[s3.media.squarespace.com image 700x443]

[dailybleach.com image 350x353]



Bravo.

images.cheezburger.com

And yes, Michele Obama really DOES want to take your pizza.

/More for her
 
2013-01-05 05:09:05 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: They are proposing even MORE information to be posted such as the calorie count of every possible pizza combination available.


Actually the article was griping that it wasn't clear if that is the case or not.

You still can't seem to explain why it didn't happen to the establishments that volunteered for this. I guess that it was costless until the law was passed?
 
2013-01-05 05:12:37 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Fart_Machine: So you believe calorie count has to be exact to be effective?

Well, let's see. Breakfast was either 300 or 800 calories. Lunch was 700 or 1200. Supper 900 or 1400.  So my intake for the day was 1900 or 3400...That's helpful! Thanks FDA! What do I owe you?

Fart_Machine: No wonder you're fat.

Heh!

Dancin_In_Anson: 210. Down from a high of 270 (I'm 6'4"). Did it without this rule and still enjoy pizza as well. Go figure.

Keep trying!


Yes because having a slight vs a gross variation is exactly the same thing. Derping must burn off calories.
 
2013-01-05 05:16:15 PM

computerguyUT: Kalifornia.... The England of the United States.

We are safe cause we are afraid of guns. No, we're not the murder capital of the nation, there are a couple states in front of us.. They are afraid of guns too.

Please Kalifornia, tell us how to live because you're obviously Soooooo much smarter than the rest of us.
What?
I can't hear you over the sound of your fiscal imcompetence and bankruptcy.


Actually the state has a much lower deficit with a possible projected surplus. But you probably didn't hear about that over the breathing of your mouth.
 
2013-01-05 05:17:23 PM
This is just stupid. A totally unnecessary law that will cause yet another rise in prices in an already bad economy.

Government regulation that prevents companies from dumping industrial waste into a river = good. Government regulation like this = infuriating.
 
2013-01-05 05:25:21 PM
It's very easy to write calorie labeling laws in a way that isn't unduly burdensome to the restaurant industry. If there's any ambiguity in the law, it'll be easily resolvable by Congress.

...No wonder industry lobbyists are worried.  They can't rely on House Republicans to write a bill fine-tuning the law, because they'll waste all their time trying futilely to repeal the whole damn thing.
 
2013-01-05 05:25:22 PM

GAT_00: R.A.Danny: GAT_00: If they are that close to the red, they are unlikely to survive the next equipment failure anyway.

Screw 'em. Pizza Hut can always pick up those jobs.

If operating a pre-set spreadsheet is too much for a business, how successful exactly do you think this business is?  How many jobs do you think they're creating?  What exactly do you think the lifespan of it is?


How the hell is an ever changing spreadsheet going to help with the physical signage inside?
 
2013-01-05 05:25:23 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Psycoholic_Slag: They are proposing even MORE information to be posted such as the calorie count of every possible pizza combination available.

Actually the article was griping that it wasn't clear if that is the case or not.

You still can't seem to explain why it didn't happen to the establishments that volunteered for this. I guess that it was costless until the law was passed?


*sigh*

The previous law was simple in it's implementation compared to the new proposed law. Make sense now?

I'm backing out of this thread, my extra large sausage and mushroom pizza just showed up and I didn't even once consider what the calorie count was. I assumed "a lot".

/peace out
 
2013-01-05 05:27:15 PM
If you eat a lot of pizza, you will gain weight.
 
2013-01-05 05:29:06 PM

Dancin_In_Anson:

Here's a simple pizza dough recipe (they make theirs from scratch)

1 teaspoon sugar 1 envelope instant dry yeast 2 teaspoons kosher salt1 1/2 cups water, 110 degrees F, 2 tablespoons olive oil, plus 2 teaspoons
Sauce:
1 (4-ounce) can tomato paste1 1/2 cups water 1/3 cup extra virgin olive oil 2 cloves minced garlic, Salt and pepper, 1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh oregano leaves,1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh basil leaves, 1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh rosemary leaves


You cut a buttload of calories by leaving out the flour?

/My recipe calls for 1/2 tsp each of sugar and salt, but I do go whole hog on the flour. Sometimes I use as much as three cups of it. Which makes me sound fat, obviously.
 
2013-01-05 05:31:22 PM
How about a law requiring pizzas to be topped with real cheese and none of that cheap imitation cheese crap?
 
2013-01-05 05:40:07 PM

Fart_Machine: If you are a chain with more than 20 locations you're not a small business


They'll keep coming, keep adding, knocking it down to 10 locations, 5, 3....
 
2013-01-05 05:41:48 PM

Lidocaine: This is just stupid. A totally unnecessary law that will cause yet another rise in prices in an already bad economy.

Government regulation that prevents companies from dumping industrial waste into a river = good. Government regulation like this = infuriating.


Exactly. Especially when you can just imagine big business and their lobbyists giggling in the background as they squeeze mom and pops out of the way while lining their pockets. Doesn't seem very liberal does it?
 
2013-01-05 05:42:34 PM

R.A.Danny: Fart_Machine: If you are a chain with more than 20 locations you're not a small business

They'll keep coming, keep adding, knocking it down to 10 locations, 5, 3....


If we move the goal posts some more...
 
2013-01-05 05:48:40 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: Here's a simple pizza dough recipe (they make theirs from scratch)

1 teaspoon sugar 1 envelope instant dry yeast 2 teaspoons kosher salt1 1/2 cups water, 110 degrees F, 2 tablespoons olive oil, plus 2 teaspoons
Sauce:
1 (4-ounce) can tomato paste1 1/2 cups water 1/3 cup extra virgin olive oil 2 cloves minced garlic, Salt and pepper, 1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh oregano leaves,1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh basil leaves, 1/2 tablespoon chopped fresh rosemary leaves

I'm not sure what brand of cheese(s) they use but you can pick one at your leisure and go with that. I'd say what? 1/2 cup per 12" pie? They also have about 20 different toppings...you can pick 10 of your favorites. Their pies come in 12" 14" and 18". Let's see how fast you can come up with nutrition labels for all possible sizes and combinations and get them all posted here.


You've left flour out of the dough recipe, and you've failed to specify how much of the dough recipe and how much of the sauce recipe is used to create each size of pie. Calculating the calorie information is impossible without these values.

Provide them and I'll accept your challenge. In the meantime, here's the ingredients for my pizza dough recipe, which makes two 14-inch pizza crusts:
1 packet rapid rise yeast
1.5 cups warm water
5 tablespoons sugar
1.5 tablespoons salt
5 tablespoons olive oil
5 cups flour (4.5 cups to start, .5 cups kneaded in)

Generally, we use commercial canned pizza sauce and mozarella from the local grocery store, both of which have calorie counts on the packages, so I won't bother with those. And we usually cut our pizzas into 8 slices. As soon as I post his, I'll start calculating the calories in one slice of pizza for you, to show you just how EASY this kind of thing is.
 
2013-01-05 05:48:52 PM

Fart_Machine: R.A.Danny: Fart_Machine: If you are a chain with more than 20 locations you're not a small business

They'll keep coming, keep adding, knocking it down to 10 locations, 5, 3....

If we move the goal posts some more...


The hell. It always works this way when corporations get in our laws.
 
2013-01-05 05:51:17 PM
The Biggest Loser is conspiracy against Italians... I'm cooking mescaline for dinner!
 
2013-01-05 05:54:09 PM
1 packet rapid rise yeast (35 cal)
1.5 cups warm water (0 cal)
5 tablespoons sugar (15 cal/tablespoon * 1.5 = 22.5)
1.5 tablespoons salt (0 cal)
5 tablespoons olive oil (595 cal)
5 cups flour (4.5 cups to start, .5 cups kneaded in) (455 cal/cup * 5 = 2275 cal)

Total calories in recipe: 2927.5 (I'm going to round from here)
Split into two crusts: 2927.5/2 = 1464
Cut each crust into 8 slices: 1464/8 = 183 calories from crust per slice.

Done.
 
2013-01-05 05:56:50 PM
Hey, look at that! SIX WHOLE MINUTES to figure that out.

The real complication with pizza is the number of combination of toppings (2 to the power of the number of toppings offered, or 3 to the power of if the pizza joint allows double toppings), and that should be addressed in the law. But if that was your complaint, Dancin_In_Anson, you made it very badly.
 
2013-01-05 05:57:04 PM

xenovalent: 1 packet rapid rise yeast (35 cal)
1.5 cups warm water (0 cal)
5 tablespoons sugar (15 cal/tablespoon * 1.5 = 22.5)
1.5 tablespoons salt (0 cal)
5 tablespoons olive oil (595 cal)
5 cups flour (4.5 cups to start, .5 cups kneaded in) (455 cal/cup * 5 = 2275 cal)

Total calories in recipe: 2927.5 (I'm going to round from here)
Split into two crusts: 2927.5/2 = 1464
Cut each crust into 8 slices: 1464/8 = 183 calories from crust per slice.

Done.


Can you put every combination of ingredients and be able to prove them in an audit. You KNOW that comes next.
 
2013-01-05 06:00:35 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: Mrtraveler01: Psycoholic_Slag: I'm basing my post from info in TFA:

There's your problem.

Beats pulling my opinion out of my ass.


Yes, that's definitely better than you who is relying on Reason which basically pulled its opinion out of its ass to suit its agenda.
 
2013-01-05 06:02:04 PM

GAT_00: Sure it is. A label generator, Excel software, easy. You can use Open Office, so no cost there. Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box. That's what, a minute of work, maybe?


Nope. You have to tell them "Before" they purchase it, not after. The intended goal is to let consumers choose more healthy foods at the POS. That means having a menu board that lists every possible combination of toppings, and not simply listing each topping with a calorie count next to it either because apparently people can't add in their heads nowadays, plus depending upon how many types of toppings they offer it could be very unwieldy for the store to implement as many pizza places have a very small counter area (if any in the case of places like some Dominoes that are strictly delivery only) available to post the information anyway. This is fairly easy to do for online orders using a solution similar to what you said however for in store or telephone (non-smartphone) purchases it is an entirely different story.

For example my favorite place to get pizza from has over 50 different toppings and 4 different sizes (plus they will do half and half pizzas and double or triple toppings) listing every possible combination would easily take up a full sized roadside billboard using a very small font so it's not only impractical but it would also be prohibitively expensive to implement. Now for common pizzas (say a pepperoni, olive and cheese for example it wouldn't be all that hard to do but once a customer asks for extra toppings or has a topping removed or swapped out for another one it gets unwieldy really quickly.

Personally I think that if you're ordering pizza that you're not really looking to count calories anyway so it's pointless to bother jumping through the hoops to provide that information in excruciating detail just so it can be ignored by 99.9% of your customers.
 
2013-01-05 06:02:42 PM
Tracking calories and fat content to a LEGAL standard is really difficult in a restaurant.

It's surprisingly difficult to test calories like this. Preparation changes the content, esp as some parts are used and others thrown out or separated for use elsewhere.

Recipes change, and many smaller restaurants don't tightly control ingredients and portion size they hand out.

For example, I can look up the caloric content of a chicken quarter. But I'm cooking it, and the stock that I separate out is not included in this recipe but will be used in the soup. The grease that comes off it is a significant loss in calorie count if GRILLED, but if if we put it in a stew, the calories go into the water and are still consumed. And the chicken pieces come from the supplier like +/-15% in weight.

If the legal standard was "we'll burn you when we test it in a lab it's 1 calorie over your spec", then I need to exaggerate by +15% to be sure.
But more likely the standard is "just do your best and we'll trust you, because we have no money to be testing dishes". Well with that strategy, what's gonna happen is your competitors are gonna go with the "low side" of the estimate, and you'll have to do the same to compete. In fact in reality self-reported calorie counts have been absurdly fictional.

These aren't prepackaged, machine-processed foods, it just can't be given hard numbers like this.

Compliance sounds like a biatch. See, normally management dictates "every month take inventory and inspect the chimney", etc. Inventory shouldn't be off, but we don't want unknowns to float around forever until we get burned. Here, you have a calorie chart that cost a LOT of money to put together, and might be erroneous because it's a complicated question, and you just can't say "every month, recalculate the chart all over again, get lab tests done if necessary". And there's not even anyone on staff that can DO that, you probably want a consultant. So you have a dusty chart calculated years back, before the current management even, and nobody knows if it's still accurate but you can't just recalculate it regularly to maintain your business.
 
2013-01-05 06:05:26 PM

xenovalent: Generally, we use commercial canned pizza sauce and mozarella from the local grocery store, both of which have calorie counts on the packages, so I won't bother with those. And we usually cut our pizzas into 8 slices. As soon as I post his, I'll start calculating the calories in one slice of pizza for you, to show you just how EASY this kind of thing is.


In all possible combinations, please.
 
2013-01-05 06:05:36 PM
Soooo does that mean peperonis made with anything other than beef will be labeled imitation peperoni ?
 
2013-01-05 06:13:09 PM

R.A.Danny: xenovalent: 1 packet rapid rise yeast (35 cal)
1.5 cups warm water (0 cal)
5 tablespoons sugar (15 cal/tablespoon * 1.5 = 22.5)
1.5 tablespoons salt (0 cal)
5 tablespoons olive oil (595 cal)
5 cups flour (4.5 cups to start, .5 cups kneaded in) (455 cal/cup * 5 = 2275 cal)

Total calories in recipe: 2927.5 (I'm going to round from here)
Split into two crusts: 2927.5/2 = 1464
Cut each crust into 8 slices: 1464/8 = 183 calories from crust per slice.

Done.

Can you put every combination of ingredients and be able to prove them in an audit. You KNOW that comes next.


Can I? Yes. Will I? No - I don't run a restaurant (that's just for the pizzas I make for family and friends at home). If I did run restaurant, that would just be part of the cost of doing business - added on top of all the other things that fall under that category that are mandated by the governemnt, like paying taxes and those little signs in the rest rooms that say "Employees mush wash hands" and paying for worker's comp insurance.
 
2013-01-05 06:17:27 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: xenovalent: Generally, we use commercial canned pizza sauce and mozarella from the local grocery store, both of which have calorie counts on the packages, so I won't bother with those. And we usually cut our pizzas into 8 slices. As soon as I post his, I'll start calculating the calories in one slice of pizza for you, to show you just how EASY this kind of thing is.

In all possible combinations, please.


There are no "possible combinations" - what I did was JUST for the crust. Give me the information I asked for above - complete recipes for crust and sauce, and how much of each recipe is used for each size of pizza, and I'll do the calculations. Until you provide, you're just being an ass.
 
2013-01-05 06:17:33 PM
How come this wasn't a total disaster for small businesses when Albany, NY did this 4 years ago?
 
2013-01-05 06:19:39 PM

Mrtraveler01: How come this wasn't a total disaster for small businesses when Albany, NY did this 4 years ago?


Is that a county-level law? I flew into Albany last year to go on vacation in the Adirondacks - I was kinda scared by how high the calorie counts for the burgers at Red Robin were when we stopped at the Red Robin in Latham Farms for lunch before heading north.
 
2013-01-05 06:20:10 PM

xenovalent: Dancin_In_Anson: xenovalent: Generally, we use commercial canned pizza sauce and mozarella from the local grocery store, both of which have calorie counts on the packages, so I won't bother with those. And we usually cut our pizzas into 8 slices. As soon as I post his, I'll start calculating the calories in one slice of pizza for you, to show you just how EASY this kind of thing is.

In all possible combinations, please.

There are no "possible combinations" - what I did was JUST for the crust. Give me the information I asked for above - complete recipes for crust and sauce, and how much of each recipe is used for each size of pizza, and I'll do the calculations. Until you provide, you're just being an ass.


Don't you see? Chains aren't equipped to handle such a burdensome law even though they already do.
 
2013-01-05 06:21:32 PM

xenovalent: Mrtraveler01: How come this wasn't a total disaster for small businesses when Albany, NY did this 4 years ago?

Is that a county-level law? I flew into Albany last year to go on vacation in the Adirondacks - I was kinda scared by how high the calorie counts for the burgers at Red Robin were when we stopped at the Red Robin in Latham Farms for lunch before heading north.


I think it is. I'm not even from the area but I remember reading about it when they first passed that law thinking what a interesting idea it was.

But since I don't equate it with the death of capitalism, I guess that means I hate the free market or something.
 
2013-01-05 06:21:57 PM
Yeah, it's gonna be a real biatch to add a comically-simple arithmetic subroutine to this:

www.pizza-pos-system.com
 
2013-01-05 06:22:23 PM

Mrtraveler01: How come this wasn't a total disaster for small businesses when Albany, NY did this 4 years ago?


Because they're obviously smarter than people from Texas.
 
2013-01-05 06:23:02 PM

Blues_X: Calories in types of crust by size.

Calories in each topping.

This is just like goddamned rocket science.


Which is exactly what pizza shops have been doing for years.  The government is saying they need to list the combined nutritional info for every combination possible in every size.   It's not possible given the total number of permutations that are available.  Some pizza chains have even made an app that will calculate your pizza info for you.  That isn't considered good enough.
 
2013-01-05 06:23:08 PM

gameshowhost: Yeah, it's gonna be a real biatch to add a comically-simple arithmetic subroutine to this:

[www.pizza-pos-system.com image 309x107]


Yeah, I love the whining from the right about this too.

This only affects chains with 20 locations or more you morons!
 
2013-01-05 06:23:45 PM

xenovalent: Can I? Yes. Will I? No - I don't run a restaurant (that's just for the pizzas I make for family and friends at home). If I did run restaurant, that would just be part of the cost of doing business


You can't see a scenario where the cost of doing business keeps adding up due to more and more regulation, regulation that really does nothing in the end to benefit anyone?
 
2013-01-05 06:24:14 PM

OgreMagi: The government is saying they need to list the combined nutritional info for every combination possible in every size


Where does it say this? I've looked everywhere online and outside a bunch of nutty right-wing blogs. I haven't found any reputable source that says that.
 
2013-01-05 06:26:17 PM

R.A.Danny: xenovalent: Can I? Yes. Will I? No - I don't run a restaurant (that's just for the pizzas I make for family and friends at home). If I did run restaurant, that would just be part of the cost of doing business

You can't see a scenario where the cost of doing business keeps adding up due to more and more regulation, regulation that really does nothing in the end to benefit anyone?


Posting nutritional information is a benefit to the consumer.

Whether or not they take advantage of that is a different story.

Remember, this only affects chains. They're better equipped to handle regulations like this. This doesn't affect the Mom and Pop pizza joint in town.
 
2013-01-05 06:29:26 PM

Mrtraveler01: This doesn't affect the Mom and Pop pizza joint in town.


I hope not, but yeah, obviously I see this as a corporate backed shakedown of the little guy that is just going to grow.

Only time will tell.
 
2013-01-05 06:30:35 PM

R.A.Danny: xenovalent: Can I? Yes. Will I? No - I don't run a restaurant (that's just for the pizzas I make for family and friends at home). If I did run restaurant, that would just be part of the cost of doing business

You can't see a scenario where the cost of doing business keeps adding up due to more and more regulation, regulation that really does nothing in the end to benefit anyone?


Yes, I can see such as situation. Mrtraveler01 is correct - this regulation does benefit the consumer (despite the businesses that need to comply with it incurring some costs), and as such I see no problem with it.
 
2013-01-05 06:30:49 PM

R.A.Danny: I hope not, but yeah, obviously I see this as a corporate backed shakedown of the little guy that is just going to grow.


How is it a corporate shakedown of the little guy if the little guy isn't even impacted by this?
 
2013-01-05 06:45:19 PM

OgreMagi: Blues_X: Calories in types of crust by size.

Calories in each topping.

This is just like goddamned rocket science.

Which is exactly what pizza shops have been doing for years.  The government is saying they need to list the combined nutritional info for every combination possible in every size.   It's not possible given the total number of permutations that are available.  Some pizza chains have even made an app that will calculate your pizza info for you.  That isn't considered good enough.


It doesn't say this. Fear-mongers like lobbying groups and Reason are saying this.
 
2013-01-05 06:46:14 PM
Best pizza place in the known universe: http://missionpizza.com/pizza/
 
2013-01-05 06:48:38 PM

xenovalent: The real complication with pizza is the number of combination of toppings (2 to the power of the number of toppings offered, or 3 to the power of if the pizza joint allows double toppings), and that should be addressed in the law. But if that was your complaint, Dancin_In_Anson, you made it very badly.


Only because I asked it more than once I suppose.
 
2013-01-05 06:49:21 PM

Ima4nic8or: Best pizza place in the known universe: http://missionpizza.com/pizza/


I say we drop the BS fearmongering from Reason and talk about pizza.

No other place tops this in St. Louis (It's so good, he flew out the chefs who work here for his first Inauguration):

slice.seriouseats.com

a1.twimg.com

slice.seriouseats.com
 
2013-01-05 06:56:16 PM

R.A.Danny: Mrtraveler01: This doesn't affect the Mom and Pop pizza joint in town.

I hope not, but yeah, obviously I see this as a corporate backed shakedown of the little guy that is just going to grow.

Only time will tell.


There are any number of regulations (like the majority of the Americans with Disabilities Act) that only apply to companies with 50 or more employees.  The 50-employee threshold has not been lowered in nearly 20 years.

I'm not too worried about this particular slope being all that slippery.
 
2013-01-05 06:57:30 PM
So, the author claims it would be impossible to add together the calorie counts of various ingredients, and then links to two chain's websites where you can more or less do just that. I've played with similar features on other fast food places' websites. You add or take away ingredients and it adds or takes away calories, fat, etc. Neat bit of programming but not exactly rocket science. And I absolutely support labeling laws. I'd rather see them than outright bans on foods.
 
2013-01-05 07:02:30 PM

I should be in the kitchen: And I absolutely support labeling laws. I'd rather see them than outright bans on foods.


Same here. I thought the soda ban in NYC was stupid. No need to restrict a customers choice but I also see no harm in allowing these customers to get access to information on what they're eating/drinking as well.

I just got to laugh at all the people who think that this is just one more step to turn us into the Soviet Union or something.

What would we do without these drama queens amiright guys?
 
2013-01-05 07:02:40 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: xenovalent: The real complication with pizza is the number of combination of toppings (2 to the power of the number of toppings offered, or 3 to the power of if the pizza joint allows double toppings), and that should be addressed in the law. But if that was your complaint, Dancin_In_Anson, you made it very badly.

Only because I asked it more than once I suppose.


Maybe next time you should state what you're trying to demonstrate in your requests - or just state your opinion, rather than asking people to do what would probably end up being a couple of hours worth of work (without even providing them with complete information needed to do the work). And as GAT_00 pointed out, it really wouldn't be that hard to do with a decent spreadsheet.

OTOH, it's a totally fair criticism of (what I understand of) the law as it's currently written - but it would apply to a lot of other businesses that can customize a meal as well. But that doesn't mean that the idea overall is bad - just that it needs some tweaking to be effective for consumers without being overly burdensome on businesses.
 
2013-01-05 07:06:51 PM

xenovalent: Dancin_In_Anson: xenovalent: The real complication with pizza is the number of combination of toppings (2 to the power of the number of toppings offered, or 3 to the power of if the pizza joint allows double toppings), and that should be addressed in the law. But if that was your complaint, Dancin_In_Anson, you made it very badly.

Only because I asked it more than once I suppose.

Maybe next time you should state what you're trying to demonstrate in your requests - or just state your opinion, rather than asking people to do what would probably end up being a couple of hours worth of work (without even providing them with complete information needed to do the work). And as GAT_00 pointed out, it really wouldn't be that hard to do with a decent spreadsheet.

OTOH, it's a totally fair criticism of (what I understand of) the law as it's currently written - but it would apply to a lot of other businesses that can customize a meal as well. But that doesn't mean that the idea overall is bad - just that it needs some tweaking to be effective for consumers without being overly burdensome on businesses.


And our only source seems to be from Reason which I pretty much take with a grain of salt anyways.

Until I see a non-derpy source talking about this, I'm going to continue to believe that Reason is full of it
 
2013-01-05 07:09:15 PM

Mrtraveler01: How is it a corporate shakedown of the little guy if the little guy isn't even impacted by this?


Because it helps to keep the little guy little. Lets say I'm running a successful pizza shop and there is enough demand for my products to open more shops. All is going pretty well but then I hit location #21. Now I have to implement an unwieldy calorie counting system for all of my shops (not just shop #21). Now if it's just a calorie range per slice then it's probably not that big of a deal (if you can just take the low end and high end of all of your available toppings and then use that) so it looks like this:

Crust: 180 cal
Sauce: 150 cal
1 topping: 100 to 400 cal
2 toppings 200 to 800 cal
3 toppings 300 to 1200 cal
etc...

Print up a poster sized chart and be done with it at probably at least $1,000 per store (custom signs ain't cheap) so let's just say $20,000 plus printing worth of extra costs. However if it has to be any more complicated than that then you run into the problem of not only providing more signage (at more costs) but also finding someplace top put them. If those stores were built on the small side (as most pizza places that start off as a family run, mostly delivery joint usually are) then you probably don't have the space on the walls in the customer areas to accommodate them as the permutations can grow exponentially for each type of topping. If you've noticed most pizza places price their toppings as a group (say $0.75 each no matter what it is). This is not only because it makes it easier for the customer to calculate their bill but also because it's much easier for the restaurant to use the law of averages to level out their own costs per pie by simplifying their inventory management time (and associated costs)

However if you need to be more precise than that then it starts to get more expensive, some would argue prohibitively so, and so the owner decides to stop at store #20 even though he would like to continue to expand. That is how laws like this can benefit the larger corporations, by keeping smaller chains from growing and becoming some real competition to them later on.

On the flip side the larger chains may also face some of the same problems, however by being able to order signage in large quantities they can get lower prices for the signage and printing costs so that the costs to implement laws like these are less per store, giving them an even larger advantage over the smaller chain looking to grow.
 
2013-01-05 07:30:24 PM

xenovalent: Maybe next time you should state what you're trying to demonstrate in your requests - or just state your opinion, rather than asking people to do what would probably end up being a couple of hours worth of work (without even providing them with complete information needed to do the work). And as GAT_00 pointed out, it really wouldn't be that hard to do with a decent spreadsheet.


Well let's see your suff! We have the crust down. Now lets get to all possible combinations. I'll chech back in "a couple of hours"
 
2013-01-05 07:35:31 PM

Radioactive Ass: Mrtraveler01: How is it a corporate shakedown of the little guy if the little guy isn't even impacted by this?

Because it helps to keep the little guy little. Lets say I'm running a successful pizza shop and there is enough demand for my products to open more shops. All is going pretty well but then I hit location #21. Now I have to implement an unwieldy calorie counting system for all of my shops (not just shop #21). Now if it's just a calorie range per slice then it's probably not that big of a deal (if you can just take the low end and high end of all of your available toppings and then use that) so it looks like this:

Crust: 180 cal
Sauce: 150 cal
1 topping: 100 to 400 cal
2 toppings 200 to 800 cal
3 toppings 300 to 1200 cal
etc...

Print up a poster sized chart and be done with it at probably at least $1,000 per store (custom signs ain't cheap) so let's just say $20,000 plus printing worth of extra costs. However if it has to be any more complicated than that then you run into the problem of not only providing more signage (at more costs) but also finding someplace top put them. If those stores were built on the small side (as most pizza places that start off as a family run, mostly delivery joint usually are) then you probably don't have the space on the walls in the customer areas to accommodate them as the permutations can grow exponentially for each type of topping. If you've noticed most pizza places price their toppings as a group (say $0.75 each no matter what it is). This is not only because it makes it easier for the customer to calculate their bill but also because it's much easier for the restaurant to use the law of averages to level out their own costs per pie by simplifying their inventory management time (and associated costs)

However if you need to be more precise than that then it starts to get more expensive, some would argue prohibitively so, and so the owner decides to stop at store #20 even though he would like to continue to expand. That is how laws like this can benefit the larger corporations, by keeping smaller chains from growing and becoming some real competition to them later on.

On the flip side the larger chains may also face some of the same problems, however by being able to order signage in large quantities they can get lower prices for the signage and printing costs so that the costs to implement laws like these are less per store, giving them an even larger advantage over the smaller chain looking to grow.


If you've managed to expand to 20 pizza parlors most likely you've already considered this and made the necessary accommodations so you won't have to spend money retooling existing stores. Unless you think business people who expand are that short sighted.
 
2013-01-05 07:57:57 PM

Dancin_In_Anson: xenovalent: Maybe next time you should state what you're trying to demonstrate in your requests - or just state your opinion, rather than asking people to do what would probably end up being a couple of hours worth of work (without even providing them with complete information needed to do the work). And as GAT_00 pointed out, it really wouldn't be that hard to do with a decent spreadsheet.

Well let's see your suff! We have the crust down. Now lets get to all possible combinations. I'll chech back in "a couple of hours"


I don't think Fark will allow a post with 16384 lines in it...(14 items that you can choose to have or not have - basing it on what's available at Pizza Hut...actually now that I think I should see if I have a menu from Little Italy around...)
 
2013-01-05 08:10:48 PM
gimme pizza

P-I-Z-Z-A

cache.gawkerassets.com
 
2013-01-05 08:31:30 PM
So much complaining. Just STFU and do it already. Panera Bread seems to have no issues with handling "variety".

Link
 
2013-01-05 08:38:14 PM

WittyTagHere: So much complaining. Just STFU and do it already. Panera Bread seems to have no issues with handling "variety".

Link


WittyTagHere: So much complaining. Just STFU and do it already. Panera Bread seems to have no issues with handling "variety".

Link


This is proof that Democracy is dying.
 
2013-01-05 08:39:38 PM

WittyTagHere: So much complaining. Just STFU and do it already. Panera Bread seems to have no issues with handling "variety".

Link


They're a huge soulless chain. You explained my point for me.
 
2013-01-05 08:48:22 PM

xenovalent: Dancin_In_Anson: xenovalent: Maybe next time you should state what you're trying to demonstrate in your requests - or just state your opinion, rather than asking people to do what would probably end up being a couple of hours worth of work (without even providing them with complete information needed to do the work). And as GAT_00 pointed out, it really wouldn't be that hard to do with a decent spreadsheet.

Well let's see your suff! We have the crust down. Now lets get to all possible combinations. I'll chech back in "a couple of hours"

I don't think Fark will allow a post with 16384 lines in it...(14 items that you can choose to have or not have - basing it on what's available at Pizza Hut...actually now that I think I should see if I have a menu from Little Italy around...)


Google Docs spreadsheet - first row is the name of the topping, second row is the calories/slice for that topping, ignore the third row (it's just there to help generate the remaining rows), and anywhere below that, a "1" indicates that the topping is included or a "0" indicatest that it's not included. I admit that I made up the numbers for the calories - but that information is readily available on the internet, so figure on another 45 minutes (assuming about 3 minutes to figure out an appropriate serving size fore each item and research it) on top of how long it took me to do this.
 
2013-01-05 09:01:49 PM

Blues_X: Calories in types of crust by size.

Calories in each topping.

This is just like goddamned rocket science.


This is what I came to say. Wonder why the good folks at reason couldn't figure this out.
 
2013-01-05 09:07:02 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: gimme pizza

P-I-Z-Z-A

[cache.gawkerassets.com image 340x278]


i.ytimg.com

WHIPPED CREAM FLOWS LIKE WATERFALLS!
 
2013-01-05 09:50:19 PM

xenovalent: Google Docs spreadsheet - first row is the name of the topping, second row is the calories/slice for that topping, ignore the third row (it's just there to help generate the remaining rows), and anywhere below that, a "1" indicates that the topping is included or a "0" indicatest that it's not included. I admit that I made up the numbers for the calories - but that information is readily available on the internet, so figure on another 45 minutes (assuming about 3 minutes to figure out an appropriate serving size fore each item and research it) on top of how long it took me to do this.


OK, now create a readable sign to post on the restaurant wall with that info. Compiling/calculating the data is relatively easy. Making it useful is quite another.

/and your list of ingredients is rather light
//multiply by crust type
///multiply by size
 
2013-01-05 10:27:32 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Stone Meadow: Jeebus, how hard can this be?

Step 1: Make poster with nutritional data on it (like Micky-Dees does)
Step 2: Hang on wall (ditto)
Step 3: Profit

Questions?

Given the thousands or millions of different combinations of ingredients on a pizza, how large do you want this sign to be?


Would it not be good enough to simply label the calorie content of each ingredient based on pizza size? That seems reasonably easy to do.
Then customers could simply count up the calories for each topping and add them up.
 
2013-01-05 10:35:17 PM

Gawdzila: Would it not be good enough to simply label the calorie content of each ingredient based on pizza size? That seems reasonably easy to do.
Then customers could simply count up the calories for each topping and add them up.


You'd have to ask the people writing this legislation if that is good enough.
 
2013-01-05 10:45:05 PM

Radioactive Ass: On the flip side the larger chains may also face some of the same problems, however by being able to order signage in large quantities they can get lower prices for the signage and printing costs so that the costs to implement laws like these are less per store, giving them an even larger advantage over the smaller chain looking to grow.


Frankly I can't imagine that getting 20 posters printed is that farking expensive whether you get it at wholesale prices or not.
I know a couple girls who run a nonprofit; they design and sell a calendar in their spare time and they have hundreds of them printed with cash out of their own pockets, and neither of them are exactly what you'd call wealthy. If this small business owner really isn't making enough profit out of 20 stores to easily absorb the couple grand (a pretty damn high estimate) or whatever it might cost for a couple dozen posters, this business is probably not being run very efficiently.
 
2013-01-05 10:49:17 PM

R.A.Danny: xenovalent: 1 packet rapid rise yeast (35 cal)
1.5 cups warm water (0 cal)
5 tablespoons sugar (15 cal/tablespoon * 1.5 = 22.5)
1.5 tablespoons salt (0 cal)
5 tablespoons olive oil (595 cal)
5 cups flour (4.5 cups to start, .5 cups kneaded in) (455 cal/cup * 5 = 2275 cal)

Total calories in recipe: 2927.5 (I'm going to round from here)
Split into two crusts: 2927.5/2 = 1464
Cut each crust into 8 slices: 1464/8 = 183 calories from crust per slice.

Done.

Can you put every combination of ingredients and be able to prove them in an audit. You KNOW that comes next.


Farking grow up! "Big business is bad! They are all conspiring together to run my Ma and Pa out of business! WAAA!!"

Yep, they are gleefully wringing their hands over how another regulation is going to make them more money while killing the small business, They are practically rapt with freaking joy over it...

Good grief Danny. Tell me you are just trolling and don't actually believe the shiat you are typing.

They don't even care about the small competitors. Papa Johns is concerned about taking market share from Dominoes, dumbass!

BTW, I loved how you waxed poetic about your cookie making friend when you didn't even know the law doesn't apply to her. "But but but...it will someday!! Just watch!"
 
2013-01-05 10:55:54 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Gawdzila: Would it not be good enough to simply label the calorie content of each ingredient based on pizza size? That seems reasonably easy to do.
Then customers could simply count up the calories for each topping and add them up.

You'd have to ask the people writing this legislation if that is good enough.


I don't see why it wouldn't be. This is what places like Chipotle do, which are already complying with the rules that pizza chains say would be so onerous.
 
2013-01-05 11:08:57 PM

Gawdzila: I don't see why it wouldn't be. This is what places like Chipotle do, which are already complying with the rules that pizza chains say would be so onerous.


Given 30 individual ingredients, and 4 different crust types, and 4 different sizes, how many different caloric combinations is that per pizza?
Easily computed and compiled in a spreadsheet.

Now present that to the customer in a readable format. On a non smartphone landline when he calls in a delivery order.

/how specific are they requiring this to be?
 
2013-01-06 12:07:15 AM

Gawdzila: Radioactive Ass: On the flip side the larger chains may also face some of the same problems, however by being able to order signage in large quantities they can get lower prices for the signage and printing costs so that the costs to implement laws like these are less per store, giving them an even larger advantage over the smaller chain looking to grow.

Frankly I can't imagine that getting 20 posters printed is that farking expensive whether you get it at wholesale prices or not.
I know a couple girls who run a nonprofit; they design and sell a calendar in their spare time and they have hundreds of them printed with cash out of their own pockets, and neither of them are exactly what you'd call wealthy. If this small business owner really isn't making enough profit out of 20 stores to easily absorb the couple grand (a pretty damn high estimate) or whatever it might cost for a couple dozen posters, this business is probably not being run very efficiently.


It's not just the posters but the hardware that goes into holding them as well. we aren't talking about hanging a rock band poster in your bedroom. That's where the expensive part lies.

Fart_Machine: If you've managed to expand to 20 pizza parlors most likely you've already considered this and made the necessary accommodations so you won't have to spend money retooling existing stores. Unless you think business people who expand are that short sighted.


I doubt that anyone starts off by thinking that big and the extra square footage costs real money for space that you may or may not need 20 years or more down the line to comply with a law that wasn't even reasonably conceivable when you started up. But lets say that they did. In San Jose California the price per square foot for retail space (per year) is averaging $25.80 right now. Lets say that you determined that you need 10 extra square feet to comply with this law. $258 bucks a year extra doesn't sound all that bad but multiply that by the 20 years that it would take to get to store #21 ($5,160) and then add in the other locations (less than $5,160 but certainly more than zero) so lets just round it off to the middle of the extremes and call it $50,000 you will have to have spent just to be able to comply with a law (that you may never have to comply with if you never reach store #21) that was not only not on the books but also one that nobody in their right mind would have thought of 20 years ago. So no, I don't think that any business would take on the additional expense "Just in case", especially in the food business where the margins are already very tight to begin with.
 
2013-01-06 12:18:26 AM

david_gaithersburg: For Christ sake. Can we please just split this country in two, the USA and the USSA.


Yup, there is a big divide between the people that are saying "enough govt, leave us alone" and those who say "OMG, need morez govt because I forgot what hand to wipe with".

The times I do go out I go out to eat enjoyable food, not to stand in line with a calculator trying to figure out my daily calorie intake. I rarely go out and have waited behind someone at the BK counter grilling the cashier on the calories of their food and ridiculed her for not answering fast enough.

/getting harder and harder to run a business in the ole USA, regulation barons gone wild!
 
2013-01-06 02:18:10 AM

Fart_Machine: There are exemptions made differing a cottage food business from a retail outlet.


And even if there weren't, how hard is it? Add up the calories of the ingredients used, divide it by the number of cookies made, print up a label on an inkjet and slap it on the package.
 
2013-01-06 05:11:24 AM
Every pizzashop I have been in, have had a list of 20-30 standard pizzas with the option of extra toppings.

So you just have to show the calories of those and perhaps extra cheese and you have accounted for 99% of the pizzas sold.

If the law is written reasonably it will be satisfied with this solution.
 
2013-01-06 09:43:40 AM

Sybarite: From the studies I've seen so far, menu labeling results in modest improvements in what people order at sit-down restaurants but does nothing to change the way people consume fast food.


Well, I don't care what the studies say. Nutritional info affects what I order when I go out to eat, so I want that information. And then there are just people who are monitoring and documenting their diets who periodically (or constantly) eat out.

I honestly don't really care about pizza places, because American pizza is pretty darned unhealthy and people looking after their health probably aren't eating too much pizza...but I suppose everyone should have the right to calorie count those monstrosities.
 
2013-01-06 09:49:28 PM

R.A.Danny:

xenovalent:

Dancin_In_Anson:
xenovalent: Maybe next time you should state what you're trying to demonstrate in your requests - or just state your opinion, rather than asking people to do what would probably end up being a couple of hours worth of work (without even providing them with complete information needed to do the work). And as GAT_00 pointed out, it really wouldn't be that hard to do with a decent spreadsheet.

Well let's see your suff! We have the crust down. Now lets get to all possible combinations. I'll chech back in "a couple of hours"


Made this in 10 minutes. Just download it and put anything in the row behind "size" for the ingredient you'd want (all it needs is for the cell to be not empty). It will calculate the stuff automatically. Caloric information is in sheath 2. customer asks for a custom order? Just mark the toppings the customer wants and you'll be able to tell the customer the amount of calories in his pizza. It's not rocket surgery. You could even lock and hide cells to prevent employees from "accidentally" changing things.

Sure, the numbers are fictional but all you require for that is a bit of google-fu and measuring for things to be accurate. You could even take the caloric information from the packaging of you ingredients. All you need is a scale and very basic maths to calculate how many calories a certain topping would be.

/Yeah, I know I'm late to the thread.
 
2013-01-06 10:05:33 PM
Because google drive prefers to make new files instead of just saving the change to the file this will be the correct one. Found a copy-paste mistake.
 
2013-01-06 11:54:26 PM
I demenad these ingredient signs be in both English and Spanish.
 
2013-01-07 09:28:23 AM

xenovalent: Google Docs spreadsheet - first row is the name of the topping, second row is the calories/slice for that topping, ignore the third row (it's just there to help generate the remaining rows), and anywhere below that, a "1" indicates that the topping is included or a "0" indicatest that it's not included. I admit that I made up the numbers for the calories - but that information is readily available on the internet, so figure on another 45 minutes (assuming about 3 minutes to figure out an appropriate serving size fore each item and research it) on top of how long it took me to do this.


DerAppie: Made this in 10 minutes. Just download it and put anything in the row behind "size" for the ingredient you'd want (all it needs is for the cell to be not empty). It will calculate the stuff automatically. Caloric information is in sheath 2. customer asks for a custom order? Just mark the toppings the customer wants and you'll be able to tell the customer the amount of calories in his pizza. It's not rocket surgery. You could even lock and hide cells to prevent employees from "accidentally" changing things.


farkin' a guys! Time to get out there and sell your label making spread sheets! Should be nuthin' but a thing and the need is there.
 
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