From that article, I can see the ruling may need work. From the headline, I can see that subby sounds fat.

St_Francis_P: I can see the ruling may need work

Or repeal.

St_Francis_P: I can see that subby sounds fat.

210. Down from a high of 270 (I'm 6'4").  Did it without this rule and still enjoy pizza as well. Go figure.

Clearly the flaw with this regulation is that it does not also mandate that calorie counts show up on the (also mandated) video screen on all telephones, both cellular and land-line, that are used to transmit orders to pizzerias.

Why do you oppose common-sense ideas such as this? How's about you see what it's like in Somalia if you don't like this idea?

Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.

Calories in types of crust by size.

Calories in each topping.

This is just like goddamned rocket science.

They can have my pizza when they pry it from my cold, dead, fat fingers.

My ADD kicked in, and it didn't seem like the article was very clear to me.  Will it just be the large pizza chains like Papa John's and Pizza Hut or will it include small local places?

FTA:

"I think pizza places should label calories-really, they can figure out how to do it," New York University professor of public health Marion Nestle

Uh. Yeah. They can.

Case closed.

GAT_00: ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.

Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined.  Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza.  They order double, it's 8 ounces.  It's not difficult.

What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops

ArkAngel: What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops

The United States put a man on the moon in 1969, but goddamn it, this is just too much.

duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?

The question authority generation has given way to the do as your told it's for the good of society generation.

duffblue: Wow people really need the government to tell them how to do everything. I can see how the anti-gun movement got rolling. You guys really don't question anything, do you? How hard is it to just not be a fatass?

Kind of difficult if you don't know what you are eating.  Why would anyone want something like that kept from them?

duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?

I know!

F*cking nanny state libtardos. Why can't they eat whatever calorie-laden chemical bath is put in front of them. Now they want to know what's in it!

Stuck up ivory tower n0bama voters.

GAT_00: A label generator, Excel software, easy. You can use Open Office, so no cost there. Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box. That's what, a minute of work, maybe?

Hey! I smell a business opportunity here. Perhaps an enterprising individual such as yourself could call on the local non chain joints and help them build these labels using all possible combinations and ingredients used. A minute or two per store with your laptop and a small fee later, they are in compliance! Win win man!

Dancin_In_Anson: duffblue: You guys really don't question anything, do you?

The question authority generation has given way to the do as your told it's for the good of society generation.


Yes... giving nutritional info to a nation of fatasses is truly terrible.

See what I mean?

Blues_X: Yes... giving nutritional info to a nation of fatasses is truly terrible

Dancin_In_Anson: St_Francis_P: I can see the ruling may need work

Or repeal.

Why should it be repealed?  Should it be repealed solely as to pizza shops, or for all restaurants?

It seems like the free market crowd over at Reason (and here) should support more stringent labeling requirements. Y'know, since the supposedly greater efficiencies that come with free markets depend on (relatively) equ access to accurate information by consumers and between buyers and sellers. That is, if the free market crowd really supports free markets.

El_Perro: Dancin_In_Anson: St_Francis_P: I can see the ruling may need work

Or repeal.

Why should it be repealed?  Should it be repealed solely as to pizza shops, or for all restaurants?

It seems like the free market crowd over at Reason (and here) should support more stringent labeling requirements. Y'know, since the supposedly greater efficiencies that come with free markets depend on (relatively) equ access to accurate information by consumers and between buyers and sellers. That is, if the free market crowd really supports free markets.

Free market means that business are free to control the market, not that the market itself is free of manipulation.

El_Perro: It seems like the free market crowd over at Reason (and here) should support more stringent labeling requirements. Y'know, since the supposedly greater efficiencies that come with free markets depend on (relatively) equ access to accurate information by consumers and between buyers and sellers. That is, if the free market crowd really supports free markets.

Man oh man. You're a regular Milton Friedman!

Pizza warriors, fight back!

From the studies I've seen so far, menu labeling results in modest improvements in what people order at sit-down restaurants but does nothing to change the way people consume fast food.

GAT_00: Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined. Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza. They order double, it's 8 ounces. It's not difficult.

Actually yes it is, and it is a stupid law too.  Pizza is not the healthiest food one can consume, this is no mystery.

Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores.  So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt.  Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego.  So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni.  Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt.  And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

The issue here with this law, to be compliant is that every singe store needs to be able to calculate with what they have on hand, and according to this article, no one is really sure if HUGE ranges are allowed.  Furthermore, how is a range of 500 calories to 3700 calories going to do anyone any good?  The article also points out that most customers will never see the signage, which results in a huge waste of money, possible floorspace or sign space.

Does any of what I am saying make any sense?

Hoban Washburne: My ADD kicked in, and it didn't seem like the article was very clear to me.  Will it just be the large pizza chains like Papa John's and Pizza Hut or will it include small local places?

My understanding is that it applies to those who have so many stores.  IIRC, and don't quote me on this, but I think 25 is the magic number.

Which brings us to an unintended consequence - The cost in opening up store number 26 has now risen dramatically as this law then requires an approx $5000 to be reinvested into each other store for new signage.  So in addition to the couple hundred thousand you may spend on opening up another store, now you are faced with an additional $125,000 cost that should not exist in the first place.

GAT_00: So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned. Oh no, the world has fallen down.

Got your business plan lined out yet?

I'm in favor of this.

It's the right to have knowledge of the properties of the food you eat. It should include calories.

This will not prevent any restaurant from selling any food, nor from any one buying what they want to eat.

GAT_00: ArkAngel: GAT_00: ZAZ: Will it be illegal to make pizzas to order because nutritional information has not been calculated?

We already had a newspaper story about a school cutting out a salad bar because it was not possible to measure nutritional information or ration calories in a self-serve environment.

Pizzas are made with set ingredients, the nutritional information of which can be easily determined.  Even made to order, you know that when someone orders a pepperoni pizza, you are going to use say 4 ounces of pepperoni on that pizza.  They order double, it's 8 ounces.  It's not difficult.

What they're saying is that it's impossible to list the nutritional information for every single possible pizza, as the law requires. And while ingredients may be used in the approximate same amount for all, it's not set, as most are made purely by hand without scoops

Sure it is.  A label generator, Excel software, easy.  You can use Open Office, so no cost there.  Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box.  That's what, a minute of work, maybe?

They already do this online. The question is whether they actual store locations should have to put calorie counts on their menu boards.

GAT_00: Endive Wombat: Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores. So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt. Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego. So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni. Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt. And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned.  Oh no, the world has fallen down.

It requires extra busy work that almost all customers will not care about.  Pizza is not healthy, its that simple.  Generally, eating out is not that healthy.  Do you want to know why restaurant food tastes so much better than what you make at home?  It's because they use 4x the butter and salt than you would use at home.  I am not trying to fight with you, I agree that on paper, this process seems easy, but there is a lot of extra work and expense that is burdensome to business.

Endive Wombat: GAT_00: Endive Wombat: Let's say you run a small group of pizza shops throughout the state of California, from north to south...let's say you've got 50 stores. So you get Bob's peperoni and 4 oz is 300 calories and 25mg of salt. Your food vendor or even Bob's is unable to get you Bob's peperoni for the next month for 11 of your stores in San Diego. So your vendor replaces it with Steve's peperoni. Obviously Bob and Steve make extremely similar products, but Steve may add just a little more fat and salt, resulting in 4oz being 310 calories and 30mg of salt. And your stores in Orange County are going to get a mix of Bob's and Steve's for the next two weeks, and a different cheese mix than that of your stores in San Francisco...you see how complicated this can get.

So the solution is to change a few numbers in the Excel spreadsheet I previously mentioned.  Oh no, the world has fallen down.

It requires extra busy work that almost all customers will not care about.  Pizza is not healthy, its that simple.  Generally, eating out is not that healthy.  Do you want to know why restaurant food tastes so much better than what you make at home?  It's because they use 4x the butter and salt than you would use at home.  I am not trying to fight with you, I agree that on paper, this process seems easy, but there is a lot of extra work and expense that is burdensome to business.

Also, this article has to do with the signage in store.  So changing numbers for a print out and your website, yes is easy...but with my example above, you are not going to reprint a sign because your vendor switched your mozzarella.

Dancin_In_Anson: GAT_00: A label generator, Excel software, easy. You can use Open Office, so no cost there. Hell, you don't need the label generator, just Excel and print the results when you've tallied everything in the spreadsheet and tape it to the farking box. That's what, a minute of work, maybe?

Hey! I smell a business opportunity here. Perhaps an enterprising individual such as yourself could call on the local non chain joints and help them build these labels using all possible combinations and ingredients used. A minute or two per store with your laptop and a small fee later, they are in compliance! Win win man!

I have a friend who's father made a business making sure restaurants were in compliance to handicap and safety issues.

You who believe that Government creates no jobs forget that regulations often bring opportunities to those savvy enough to help business for a fee.

The lawyers learned this years ago...and has used the government to create jobs for them for years...

Darth_Lukecash: It's the right to have knowledge of the properties of the food you eat.

It's also your right to not eat where you don't want to.

Let's look at it like this...You and I are trying to decide on where to gab some pie and suds. We can go to the joint up the road as they have some righteous offerings and a solid selection of craft brews but no mention of calories or Dominoes who has the calorie count of their tomato paste covered cardboard boxes and Dr Pepper on their menu.

What choice will you make....besides forcing the small joint via government fiat to go through the added expense of hiring GAT_00 to do their calorie analysis for them?

Darth_Lukecash: The lawyers learned this years ago...and has used the government to create jobs for them for years...

Yea?

GAT_00: Those small businesses must be really awesome.

They aren't operating at the margins that allow for "just a few extra minutes per meal" and can't while competing with the big guys.

GAT_00: I like how you keep arguing that small businesses are incompetent and incapable of adapting to changing conditions.

I said that where?

Yes, I'll wait.

Someone loves Obama, McDonalds, and long walks with short eyes.

F*ck you, it's f*cking pizza for f*ck's sake.

GAT_00: If they are that close to the red, they are unlikely to survive the next equipment failure anyway.

Screw 'em. Pizza Hut can always pick up those jobs.