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(Seattle Times)   Warm up your car while shopping? You best believe that will get you a beat down from Seattle Police   (seattletimes.com) divider line 85
    More: Scary, Seattle Police, Opa, Seattle, SPD, Isaac Ocak, patrol cars  
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15445 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jan 2013 at 9:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-01-05 11:50:30 AM
4 votes:

ReverendJasen: No matter how progressive a town might be, law enforcement always attracts authoritarian douchebags and bullies.



"Progressive" and "authoritarian" are not necessarily on opposite ends of the spectrum.
2013-01-05 11:32:03 AM
4 votes:

duffblue: I was told by Fark liberals that the police could do no wrong and that I should turn in my guns because these brave heros will come to my rescue at the drop of a hat. It's weird there's such a huge disconnect between people like Weaver95 and reality.


That's funny. I was told by FARK gun-nuts that they were concerned about the rise of tyranny and oppression in this country, and that they wouldn't stand for it.
2013-01-05 10:14:43 AM
4 votes:
Unfortunately, the law enforcement occupation attracts folks who are too stupid for business but with a bit more ambition than McDonalds employees. They are given guns and taught that they are above the law. Add to that a bit of protection money and a thorough indoctrination of which criminals are allowed to practice with impunity, and you have a bunch of thugs who are not really concerned about law enforcement.
2013-01-05 09:40:19 PM
3 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: As a retired police officer, and I'm assuming most of the criminal apologists here have not been, this is excellent police work. His car was running, and that is a common tactic by criminals, as he is one. Suspects coming off the car when you are interviewing them, or a sudden flexing of the muscles indicates a desire to fight or run. So they put him down. And yes, he resisted arrest, and bit the police officer, and he got punched for it. He's obviously a dickhead, and anyone else in that position would just let the officers do their job, and move on. But no, he had to be a dick and resist and not comply. This was perfect police work, and if you can't see it, you have never worn a badge, or are a criminal apologist.

/high five to the officers for a job well done.


Glad you are retired.

The farkers here whom you refer to as criminal apologists are actually regular citizens who foolishly believe that the police are supposed to make the streets a safer place. The only thing to fear on the street in most situations is the police. Nobody else looking to stop and harass people day after freakin' day except the police. When the police live up to the "serve and protect" slogan, the people will adore you guys. Not that this will ever come true.

And for the record, I am a married, tax paying, law abiding business owner with zero arrests ever. But I'm not blind. I see the police state rearing its ugly head in America. Nothing to fear but our protectors anymore.

You call regular Americans criminal apologists? I call you a fascist pig. Go choke on your pension.
2013-01-05 08:55:51 PM
3 votes:

Vexed Thespian: Koodz: Between the armor, steroids, taser, stick, pepper spray, and ability to call for backup, I can see no reason for a police officer to ever PUNCH someone. Yes, hitting someone with a stick is more likely to cause injury than a punch, but there's something so visceral about balling up a fist and punching somebody in the face. It's too intimate to be a police action. Does that make sense?

perfect sense, i think what you are trying to articulate, is that a cop who punches someone, is really a guy who wants to punch someone, who happens to be a cop, but a cop who uses his baton is a cop, who is using his tools appropriately.... right? i think i know what you mean.


Not even that maybe. I've punched a lot of people. I used to compete in full-contact karate in Japan. That's bareknuckle to a knockout, not for points. I mention that only to establish that I'm not hypothesizing here. Punching people is different from using a weapon. When you punch someone, the harder you hit him, the more it hurts him, but the more it hurts your hand too. The connection between you and your victim/opponent is on a basic primate level. There's everything you need to create a positive feedback loop that ends with somebody seriously messed up. Pepper spray doesn't do that.

It's the same reason police in a lot of areas are told that if they are involved in a high-speed chase, they wait for backup and don't continue the pursuit on foot and try apprehending the suspect. All that adrenaline flying around can lead to something irrevocable happening.

Of course, with the neckless rage monsters we seem to like in the police force here in America, I guess they get plenty of opportunities to see red without external provocation.
2013-01-05 01:49:56 PM
3 votes:

xmasbaby: (from the article) "Sgt. Sean Whitcomb said the department already has reviewed the incident twice, with the officer's commanders and an assistant chief concluding no violations of law or department policy occurred when four officers took Isaac Ocak to the pavement after learning he had a prior felony conviction and had been tagged in the department's computer as being "assaultive to officers." However, the department could not provide an incident in which Ocak had ever been so. At the time, Ocak was being questioned and was not under arrest, according to police Sgt. Sean Whitcomb."

A I think this is the real problem. In any large population of employees, there are going to be a subset of dooshbags and idiots. The issue here, (besides a law abiding citizen being abused and assaulted) is how this dooshbaggery and idiocy is dealt with.

In this case, and many cases like it, you have clear evidence and assault and abusive behavior. You have a armed "trained professional" unnecessary escalating a situation. And when they abuse their power and trust, have it documented for the world to see, the police force covers it up, white washes it, sweeps it under the rug, and various other metaphors for enabling and promoting poor, abusive, illegal, and dangerous behavior.


It's insidious the way they conclude, "no violations of law or public policy took place". In other words, they're stating that they believe they have the right to do this to anyone, at any time, for any reason, because that IS the department policy. I hope these farks get cancer.
2013-01-05 12:08:29 PM
3 votes:

kombat_unit: Warm up your car while shopping? Or getting ready to shoplift?


Posting on Fark? Or writing a manifesto?

See how dumb that sounds?
2013-01-05 11:37:28 AM
3 votes:
Never Talk to the Police

Should be requisite viewing for all High Schoolers.
2013-01-05 11:16:11 AM
3 votes:

jmr61: I'm no police apologist but if they cops want to handcuff you and take you to jail resisting them is stupid. You will ALWAYS lose. Go to the station quietly and sort out your problems with them through a lawyer.

Idiot.


Because cops never make false accusations to justify assaulting someone. Especially not officers this describes:

four officers took Isaac Ocak to the pavement after learning he had a prior felony conviction and had been tagged in the department's computer as being "assaultive to officers." However, the department could not provide an incident in which Ocak had ever been so.


Let's just take their word for it.
2013-01-05 10:50:03 AM
3 votes:

jmr61: I think some people need to RTFA:

"At the time, Ocak was being questioned and was not under arrest, according to police Sgt. Sean Whitcomb. The incident escalated when Ocak resisted the officers' attempts to handcuff him for flight and officer-safety reasons, Whitcomb said."

I'm no police apologist but if they cops want to handcuff you and take you to jail resisting them is stupid. You will ALWAYS lose. Go to the station quietly and sort out your problems with them through a lawyer.

Idiot.


"No, we're not arresting you, we just want to cuff you."
What the fark? No, I would totally not be comfortable with that. Either arrest and cuff me, or get the fark out of my face.
2013-01-05 10:38:37 AM
3 votes:
When I see these things, and read about people describing police work as difficult and dangerous in order to "cut them slack" I usually just try to remember that police officers WANT the job. They know it's mostly dealing with a_holes in bulk while barfing up rainbows of niceness. They know it's dangerous. They sign up for it anyway. Who on Earth wants a job dealing day-to-day with thugs who might just hunt them down and kill them and their entire families someday??

These clowns do. They WANT it.

3.bp.blogspot.com
2013-01-05 10:04:52 AM
3 votes:
No matter how progressive a town might be, law enforcement always attracts authoritarian douchebags and bullies.
2013-01-05 07:36:19 PM
2 votes:

charmingkiddo: Live in Seattle.

It is NOT cold enough here to merit keeping your car running. The dude was obviously planning on stealing shiat, and him having a criminal records makes that plain as day.

Did the officers handle this well? No. But I don't believe the guy they arrested was innocent given he had left his car idling.


Innocent until proven guilty is a tenet of our legal philosophy.  You do the country a disservice with your unAmerican attitude.
2013-01-05 04:24:19 PM
2 votes:

Krab: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

You don't?? Seriously???

+1 seems like no matter which extreme side you swing there is always a Gestapo-like police force


The "progressive" mindset 99 times out of 100 seems to revolve around the concept of the Daddy State, where government takes up the cudgel of the "little guy" against Big Bad Business. Government is seen as a wonderful tool for accomplishing virtually any task.

Graduate-level Administrative Systems and Political Science courses often look at organizations as analogs of living organisms. As with all things of an "organic" nature they either grow or die. They never just stay the same. Government, as any organization, therefore, tends to grow. In a "progressive" political atmosphere it tends to grow faster. Since government's primary reason for existing and its tool of action is the monopolistic, deliberate and measured use of force (ultimately: deadly force), the arms of government that exert that force tend to become, over time, more overbearing as their bureaucracies grow larger, and their responsibilities grow wider and wider. Also, the cops take their "cues" for action from the local perception of governmental responsibilities. IOW, badass cops in a "progressive" town are not as rare as you might think. It's a natural outgrowth of the dynamic.
2013-01-05 03:50:42 PM
2 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: As a retired police officer, and I'm assuming most of the criminal apologists here have not been, this is excellent police work. His car was running, and that is a common tactic by criminals, as he is one. Suspects coming off the car when you are interviewing them, or a sudden flexing of the muscles indicates a desire to fight or run. So they put him down. And yes, he resisted arrest, and bit the police officer, and he got punched for it. He's obviously a dickhead, and anyone else in that position would just let the officers do their job, and move on. But no, he had to be a dick and resist and not comply. This was perfect police work, and if you can't see it, you have never worn a badge, or are a criminal apologist.

/high five to the officers for a job well done.


1/10
2013-01-05 02:05:31 PM
2 votes:

born_yesterday: Sorry to anyone who pays taxes in Seattle, but I hope this guy gets a sympathetic jury to award him millions. I think it's the only way departments like this will learn.


Even that won't change anything, IMHO. If we make police officers even somewhat PERSONALLY liable (eg. wage garnishment to pay court settlements, job termination if necessary) for really egregious crimes, we might see some real change.
2013-01-05 01:22:22 PM
2 votes:
And people wonder why I hate the police.

I have yet to meet a good cop. This includes my brother. Dirty as all hell.

FTP.
2013-01-05 01:10:06 PM
2 votes:

Koodz: Between the armor, steroids, taser, stick, pepper spray, and ability to call for backup, I can see no reason for a police officer to ever PUNCH someone. Yes, hitting someone with a stick is more likely to cause injury than a punch, but there's something so visceral about balling up a fist and punching somebody in the face. It's too intimate to be a police action. Does that make sense?


perfect sense, i think what you are trying to articulate, is that a cop who punches someone, is really a guy who wants to punch someone, who happens to be a cop, but a cop who uses his baton is a cop, who is using his tools appropriately.... right? i think i know what you mean.
2013-01-05 12:53:25 PM
2 votes:

Endive Wombat: Why do you have so many keys?

See questions like that do nothing but evoke rage of the person being detained and antagonize the situation even more.  It feels like

is harassment at that point.
2013-01-05 12:32:48 PM
2 votes:

lack of warmth: Although, I think it has more to do with protecting the insurance companies from having to pay morans for letting their cars be stolen so easily.


95% of auto-related laws (including the new ultra-strict dui laws) are about protecting insurance companies. Believe that, friend, cause it. is. farking. true.
2013-01-05 12:17:54 PM
2 votes:

Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.


Because that's where all the assholes end up. Police departments are dumping grounds for stupid assholes.
2013-01-05 11:58:48 AM
2 votes:
Why do you have so many keys?

See questions like that do nothing but evoke rage of the person being detained and antagonize the situation even more.  It feels like harassment at that point.
2013-01-05 11:35:03 AM
2 votes:

Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.


Progressive usually progresses into Gestapo.
2013-01-05 11:14:44 AM
2 votes:

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: MerelyFoolish: Unfortunately, the law enforcement occupation attracts folks who are too stupid for business but with a bit more ambition than McDonalds employees. They are given guns and taught that they are above the law. Add to that a bit of protection money and a thorough indoctrination of which criminals are allowed to practice with impunity, and you have a bunch of thugs who are not really concerned about law enforcement.

2/10


This is approximately my experience. I was once roughly frisked by two cops because I was crossing the street at 2am (I was studying for a final and going to 7-11 for some caffeine). No other reason.

I was once almost given a ticket because I pulled out of a driveway in front a cop who was going 75 in an unmarked car with no lights in a 40 zone and he had to *gasp* slow down. He pulled me over and proceeded to tell me off.

fark those guys and every other cop in San Jose.
2013-01-05 10:57:18 AM
2 votes:
Fire the cop, he has no business carrying a gun and badge. Frankly, I'm not sure he could handle a rude drive through customer at McDonalds without getting fired. But I would sure give him the opportunity to try.

/ExCop says: "You want fries with that?"
2013-01-05 10:56:39 AM
2 votes:
Pretty much always recorded somehow. Speak loudly and clearly, ask if you are under arrest. If not, you are free to go. If they get physical, do not resist, ask them why they are arresting and assaulting you. Then sue them.

One of the biggest things parents can teach their children, is their rights and how police will almost always try to abuse them.

By the way, it is completely legal to give the cops the finger, and tell them to fark off. It will enrage them, causing some beat down, but ultimately, money for you.
2013-01-05 10:54:45 AM
2 votes:
clearly police officers should be the only people with guns in America.
2013-01-05 10:47:32 AM
2 votes:

Koodz: Between the armor, steroids, taser, stick, pepper spray, and ability to call for backup, I can see no reason for a police officer to ever PUNCH someone. Yes, hitting someone with a stick is more likely to cause injury than a punch, but there's something so visceral about balling up a fist and punching somebody in the face. It's too intimate to be a police action. Does that make sense?


Especially when it was clearly in retaliation for the fingers you just purposefully crammed in to the "suspect's" mouth so he could bite you in the pointless struggle of four officers to detain an otherwise law-abiding-citizen that was already feeling threatened and intimidated by four white guys with anger issues and all the amnesty the badge allows.

/what's a "run-on sentence"?
2013-01-05 10:46:15 AM
2 votes:
Wwell, they are Democrat supporting union folks. What do you expect? That's how unions do business. Abuse power, violence, and the government backs them.
2013-01-05 10:40:45 AM
2 votes:
The second a cop is dick enough to give me shiat about the number of keys on my key-ring, you better just mirandize me now and let me call my lawyer, because nothing I say to you is likely to make it to court. What a group of shiatty thugs.
2013-01-05 09:49:33 PM
1 votes:

Frederick: charmingkiddo: Live in Seattle.

It is NOT cold enough here to merit keeping your car running. The dude was obviously planning on stealing shiat, and him having a criminal records makes that plain as day.

Did the officers handle this well? No. But I don't believe the guy they arrested was innocent given he had left his car idling.

Innocent until proven guilty is a tenet of our legal philosophy.  You do the country a disservice with your unAmerican attitude.


imageshack.us
2013-01-05 06:11:29 PM
1 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: As a retired police officer, and I'm assuming most of the criminal apologists here have not been, this is excellent police work. His car was running, and that is a common tactic by criminals, as he is one. Suspects coming off the car when you are interviewing them, or a sudden flexing of the muscles indicates a desire to fight or run. So they put him down. And yes, he resisted arrest, and bit the police officer, and he got punched for it. He's obviously a dickhead, and anyone else in that position would just let the officers do their job, and move on. But no, he had to be a dick and resist and not comply. This was perfect police work, and if you can't see it, you have never worn a badge, or are a criminal apologist.

/high five to the officers for a job well done.


You're a cock. Stick your fingers in my mouth, and I'm trying to bite them clean off. Perfect police work? This is abusive at best, criminal at worst.
2013-01-05 05:01:21 PM
1 votes:

charmingkiddo: Live in Seattle.

It is NOT cold enough here to merit keeping your car running. The dude was obviously planning on stealing shiat, and him having a criminal records makes that plain as day.

Did the officers handle this well? No. But I don't believe the guy they arrested was innocent given he had left his car idling.


What do you think he was trying to steal and how far down this rabbit hole are you planning on taking us?
2013-01-05 04:43:09 PM
1 votes:
There needs to be an extralegal civic organization that punishes police for this shiat. I bet internal affairs departments would be more willing to go after their own if failure to do so meant some cop, somewhere in their city, would be killed.
2013-01-05 04:33:26 PM
1 votes:

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: The "gun" turned out to be a farking realistic tattoo of a .45 ACP.


Well, that's just asking for it...
2013-01-05 04:31:19 PM
1 votes:

Bit'O'Gristle: As a retired police officer, and I'm assuming most of the criminal apologists here have not been, this is excellent police work. His car was running, and that is a common tactic by criminals, as he is one. Suspects coming off the car when you are interviewing them, or a sudden flexing of the muscles indicates a desire to fight or run. So they put him down. And yes, he resisted arrest, and bit the police officer, and he got punched for it. He's obviously a dickhead, and anyone else in that position would just let the officers do their job, and move on. But no, he had to be a dick and resist and not comply. This was perfect police work, and if you can't see it, you have never worn a badge, or are a criminal apologist.

/high five to the officers for a job well done.


Fine.  I'll bite.

Tell me how the interaction was bettered when the other officer asked him about the amount of keys he had.  What insight or knowledge was the officer trying to attain, how would of it furthered the investigation at the time?  Because to me it appears to be a bit on the harassy/bullying/antagonizing the situation side of things...
2013-01-05 03:45:41 PM
1 votes:

ParaHandy: starsrift: jmr61: I think some people need to RTFA:

"At the time, Ocak was being questioned and was not under arrest, according to police Sgt. Sean Whitcomb. The incident escalated when Ocak resisted the officers' attempts to handcuff him for flight and officer-safety reasons, Whitcomb said."

I'm no police apologist but if they cops want to handcuff you and take you to jail resisting them is stupid. You will ALWAYS lose. Go to the station quietly and sort out your problems with them through a lawyer.

Idiot.

"No, we're not arresting you, we just want to cuff you."
What the fark? No, I would totally not be comfortable with that. Either arrest and cuff me, or get the fark out of my face.

They can legally do this

/ the Bill of Rights does not apply to you, citizen


That is the result of allowing people to apply it selectively.
They give themselves all the rights and spare you none.

/if you disbelieve, just see how well those same rules are observed when a politician is using them.
/they can say anything to anyone, can own any gun and carry it anywhere, have a right to privacy, to a fair trial, to voting, etc...
/be a black teen and run into the cops, suddenly its a different story.
2013-01-05 03:38:31 PM
1 votes:

mhedstrom: These guys better not ever come to the mountains of Colorado in the winter. They'd have a whole lot of "questioning" to do with *everybody* leaving their cars running if it's a short enough period of time.


Pussies. The only time I warm my car up, or leave it running, is to melt the ice on the windshield and defrost it a little before I go anywhere. There's this thing called a "coat," see, that people should wear when they go outside in the winter.......

Naw, that's too hard. Let's just leave our vehicle running for 20 minutes so we don't have to deal with anything that might expose us to the outside world.
2013-01-05 02:15:08 PM
1 votes:
Civilians should start carrying handcuffs for bad cops.
2013-01-05 01:46:30 PM
1 votes:

xmasbaby: (from the article) "Sgt. Sean Whitcomb said the department already has reviewed the incident twice, with the officer's commanders and an assistant chief concluding no violations of law or department policy occurred when four officers took Isaac Ocak to the pavement after learning he had a prior felony conviction and had been tagged in the department's computer as being "assaultive to officers." However, the department could not provide an incident in which Ocak had ever been so. At the time, Ocak was being questioned and was not under arrest, according to police Sgt. Sean Whitcomb."

A I think this is the real problem. In any large population of employees, there are going to be a subset of dooshbags and idiots. The issue here, (besides a law abiding citizen being abused and assaulted) is how this dooshbaggery and idiocy is dealt with.

In this case, and many cases like it, you have clear evidence and assault and abusive behavior. You have a armed "trained professional" unnecessary escalating a situation. And when they abuse their power and trust, have it documented for the world to see, the police force covers it up, white washes it, sweeps it under the rug, and various other metaphors for enabling and promoting poor, abusive, illegal, and dangerous behavior.


With the way technology is progressing with personal dash cams, cell phones, cloud based storage, social networking and the like, I suspect that over the coming years, these "good 'ol boy" clubs of corruption and coverups are going to come to light, be squashed out, and the court of public opinion will drive these assholes into retirement or out of town so to speak.  Unfortunately a lot of people have to unnecessarily suffer until then.
2013-01-05 01:41:25 PM
1 votes:
(from the article) "Sgt. Sean Whitcomb said the department already has reviewed the incident twice, with the officer's commanders and an assistant chief concluding no violations of law or department policy occurred when four officers took Isaac Ocak to the pavement after learning he had a prior felony conviction and had been tagged in the department's computer as being "assaultive to officers." However, the department could not provide an incident in which Ocak had ever been so. At the time, Ocak was being questioned and was not under arrest, according to police Sgt. Sean Whitcomb."

A I think this is the real problem. In any large population of employees, there are going to be a subset of dooshbags and idiots. The issue here, (besides a law abiding citizen being abused and assaulted) is how this dooshbaggery and idiocy is dealt with.

In this case, and many cases like it, you have clear evidence and assault and abusive behavior. You have a armed "trained professional" unnecessary escalating a situation. And when they abuse their power and trust, have it documented for the world to see, the police force covers it up, white washes it, sweeps it under the rug, and various other metaphors for enabling and promoting poor, abusive, illegal, and dangerous behavior.
2013-01-05 01:35:03 PM
1 votes:

Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.


Up until 1970, when the first big postwar depression hit Seattle, it was not a progressive city in any way. Other than some hip downtownsters, it was just as cookie-cutter suburbanite as anywhere else at the time. The depression combined with the rise of the countercultural tech industry was what really changed that.

NutWrench: jmr61: The incident escalated when Ocak resisted the officers' attempts to handcuff him for flight and officer-safety reasons, Whitcomb said."

Fark that. If you put handcuffs on me, then I am clearly not free to leave and am therefore under arrest.
They better have charged him with something.


They did. Assaulting an officer, which was dismissed. Why dismissed charges aren't held against the arresting office I'll never understand....
2013-01-05 01:14:18 PM
1 votes:

ReverendJasen: No matter how progressive a town might be, law enforcement always attracts authoritarian douchebags and bullies.


Portland, OR nods approvingly.
2013-01-05 01:12:33 PM
1 votes:
I think that any time any politician has a town hall meeting that he should be handcuffed to the podium for flight risk reasons.
2013-01-05 12:51:06 PM
1 votes:

Dinjiin: hipster city or not


We need a bunch of good old rednecks up here to teach us how to live while sticking their heterosexual cocks up our skinny assholes.

I almost killed myself once when I read on Fark that I was hipster. Being in a hipster city and all. Learning the definition from old stupid men that look like women who live in Kentucky.
2013-01-05 12:47:17 PM
1 votes:

duffblue: I was told by Fark liberals that the police could do no wrong and that I should turn in my guns because these brave heros will come to my rescue at the drop of a hat. It's weird there's such a huge disconnect between people like Weaver95 and reality.


Well, bless your heart.
2013-01-05 12:41:37 PM
1 votes:

NewbornRook: I was going to pose the question "If you had to be a cop in one of the most hipster populated cities in the country, do you think YOU would be nice after sometime dealing with those tards?"


From what I hear, dealing with the dregs of society from anyplace, hipster city or not, can turn the nicest of policemen into raging a-holes after time. But if you do get to that point, then perhaps a change in career is in order? If you can't come to that conclusion yourself, perhaps your employer should be able to recognize that time for you.

But then, how is it any different from any other customer facing job? Our department at work just had to let some dude go because he was getting increasingly belligerent with customers. Granted, half of our customers couldn't even count to potato, but that's just the way it is.
2013-01-05 12:40:16 PM
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: RedVentrue: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

Progressive usually progresses into Gestapo.

Look at the nation. We are about 2 steps away from Obama having Brown Shirts.


Lucky for us St. Reagan was way WAY more progressive than Obama, you farking troll.
2013-01-05 12:22:25 PM
1 votes:

mike_d85: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

As I understand it Seattle has a bunch of nerds and hippies. These groups of people tend to irritate the everloving piss out of anyone trying to control a situation that attracts attention or needs investigation. Nerds continually ask "why" for every little thing like a 5 year old or start quoting laws out of context and internet fighting. Hippies start rambling out of date psudo cosmic yammerings about barriers and community or yelling things that they think socialist revolutionaries would say.

What you end up with is cops with absolutely NO patience for anyone or anything.

/plus too much coffee


How dare those people ask questions about why they are being detained or what they did wrong or just talking in general. They should just shut up and trust that the cops know exactly what they're doing at all times, right? Geez it's no wonder the cops have to break some skulls every once in a while.
2013-01-05 12:06:17 PM
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: Never Talk to the Police

Should be requisite viewing for all High Schoolers.


Have watched that many times - and its whole premise still scares me. They should by definition know the laws better than me and as a citizen I am pretty sure they swore to protect me *shrug* seems not.
2013-01-05 11:48:28 AM
1 votes:

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

You don't?? Seriously???


+1 seems like no matter which extreme side you swing there is always a Gestapo-like police force

greggerm: Is Seattle really a city with the climate cool enough to leave your car running to keep it warm?

Weather almanac for Seattle on December 29, 2010 shows a high of 43 and a low of 37... hardly "warm up the car" temperatures.

Hmm.


Depends on where you are from and how long you have lived in that climate range. Like here in South East Texas people are talking about wrapping pipes and bundling up when leaving the house. It is in the mid 40's here I'm still in just a long sleeve shirt. (grew up in northern Ohio)
2013-01-05 11:39:37 AM
1 votes:

RedVentrue: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

Progressive usually progresses into Gestapo.


Look at the nation. We are about 2 steps away from Obama having Brown Shirts.
2013-01-05 11:34:47 AM
1 votes:
Watching this, I am reminded that police department screening tests eliminate applicants that score too highly.
2013-01-05 11:32:42 AM
1 votes:
It's very clear who commits the assault in the video.
2013-01-05 11:30:43 AM
1 votes:
I was told by Fark liberals that the police could do no wrong and that I should turn in my guns because these brave heros will come to my rescue at the drop of a hat. It's weird there's such a huge disconnect between people like Weaver95 and reality.
2013-01-05 11:29:53 AM
1 votes:
Whitcomb said Ocak had left his car running while parked outside a store - a common ploy used by shoplifters.

farking pig mentality. Everyone is a suspect.
2013-01-05 11:28:17 AM
1 votes:
How many keys are on your keyring? Good thing they didn't ask me that because I just studied on it and came up with 6. Then I went and checked my keyring and found I was off by two. They probably would have arrested me for "providing false information to law enforcement".
2013-01-05 11:23:43 AM
1 votes:

mhedstrom: These guys better not ever come to the mountains of Colorado in the winter. They'd have a whole lot of "questioning" to do with *everybody* leaving their cars running if it's a short enough period of time.


Leaving your car running unattended is a crime here in COS. Not that it deters anyone. Luckily plenty of meth heads have taken to librerating these cars from people around here. Wish they'd get around to my neighbor. I'm looking at you Mr. loud truck at 5am for 25 minutes guy.
2013-01-05 11:23:16 AM
1 votes:

Rich Cream: The officers goaded this person into getting agitated and then beat him down (up?) for it. For parking improperly.


Koodz: balling up a fist and punching somebody in the face. It's too intimate to be a police action. Does that make sense?

Considering it is not the officer's duty to dispense justice or punishment then yes, he is out of line. That was no act of self defense.


Just Another OC Homeless Guy: MerelyFoolish: Add to that a bit of protection money and a thorough indoctrination of which criminals are allowed to practice with impunity, and you have a bunch of thugs who are not really concerned about law enforcement.

2/10

The irony is we have police forces because we don't want armed gangs of vigilantes roaming the streets dispensing their own brand of justice. But guess what?


Actually, not ironic in the least. Sometime maybe you should research the origin of the nobility in Europe, or old China, or just about anywhere. Most of them started as local bandit chiefs. Their gang would build a fort along a trade route and charge "tolls" to travelers. They would rob see grain from and kill the peasants in the area - until it occurred to them that a living peasant, left with seed grain, could be robbed again and again. Then they found it necessary to PROTECT those same peasants from other bandit chiefs. There you have all the essentials of The State: (1) a monopoly of military control over a geographic area, (2) a tax base of non-gang-members, and (3) action by the gang to protect their turf. That's it! The bandit chiefs left control of the gangs to their sons, who did the same for their sons. Everything grows in complexity and precedent, and pretty soon the bandit chief is calling himself a Baron and making power deals and defensive agreements with a more powerful bandit chief who calls himself a Duke. These eventually are able to morf into nation-states when the peasants develop a sense of "us -vs- them" (nationalism). Eventually the peasants demand more voice in "their" government and the hereditary bandit aristocracy gets replaced by elected representatives.

A legitimate government is a bandit kingdom that has "made good" through the action of wise (or at least not too stupid) leadership, accident, historical precedent, and some form of "consent of the governed."

It's all there in the history books.

Also of interest: Churchill's History of the English Speaking Peoples. It contains a fascinating account of the evolution of the Saxons. Thumbnail version: The Normans conquered the Saxons and decided to defend their conquests by building a bunch of fortified castles. They literally chained the Saxons into slave work teams to build them. This took decades. After a long while the chains came off, the Saxons built little homes around the castles, and finally were ready to take up arms FOR their lords and masters. The Norman conquest had become legitimized. Today there are two major distinct dialects in England, based on the fact that the majority of the "working class" are descended from the conquered Saxons, and the majority of the "ruling class" are descended from the Normans. Interestingly, several old and legitimate Saxon words like "fark" became vulgar BECAUSE they were words used by the conquered and despised Saxons.
2013-01-05 11:19:07 AM
1 votes:

Arkanaut: Amateurs. NYPD would have just shot him.



And the Chicago PD would have tortured him into confessing to every unsolved homicide in the city.
2013-01-05 11:10:22 AM
1 votes:
Thank heavens. Way to earn those pensions, boys.
2013-01-05 11:05:36 AM
1 votes:
Watching the video is even more interesting. They give him clearly contrary instructions as they have him bent over the hood of a cruiser, then appear to use his noncompliance to the simultaneous, conflicting instructions as reason to cuff him. They don't appear to actually tell him that they're going to cuff him, either. At least, I had my volume cranked and I couldn't hear such words.
2013-01-05 11:05:35 AM
1 votes:

dpaul007: FTFA: ...officers' attempts to handcuff him for flight and officer-safety reasons...

So there were three gun-toting, taser-carrying, mace-sporting, body armor-wearing, baton-equipped LEOs vs. one 20 year-old smartass. And the cops tried to cuff him for their OWN safety? Oh, he was a flight risk. Yeah, because if he took off running, Chief Wiggum would be farked.

/SUSPECT IS HATLESS. I REPEAT, HATLESS.


One more incident which a makes me wonder what officers do to earn their right to bear arms. It certainly doesn't come from any ability to show good judgement.

/Law enforcement is on the fringe of qualifying as a militia, its certainly not an army.
/yet no one questions when hired men walk around with military grade equipment.
2013-01-05 11:02:46 AM
1 votes:

jmr61: I think some people need to RTFA:

"At the time, Ocak was being questioned and was not under arrest, according to police Sgt. Sean Whitcomb. The incident escalated when Ocak resisted the officers' attempts to handcuff him for flight and officer-safety reasons, Whitcomb said."

I'm no police apologist but if they cops want to handcuff you and take you to jail resisting them is stupid. You will ALWAYS lose. Go to the station quietly and sort out your problems with them through a lawyer.

Idiot.


I did better, I also watched the video. First off, the guy looked of Latino descent. (Hint: this is not racist) I learned in my Spanish class that the Spanish language deals a bit more in body language than English, so if this guy was Latino (hence the Spanish upbringing), that would explain the hand movements. Next, the cop is required to (in my hometown) at least reply to why you need to be in handcuffs, even if the excuse is fake (For your protection or some BS). Third, both were escalating the scene to that, as a rude cop never gets much love from others (heck, my manager is a total shiathead, and is rather hated). Lastly, the guy -was- talking while the cops were trying to subdue him, and the cop had his fingers at his mouth, so talking easily becomes biting.

IMO, it was mutual errors that caused the idiocy. The police however should have been more professional in the start of it.
2013-01-05 10:48:31 AM
1 votes:

Dinjiin


On par for SPD.
Why do people continue to try to limit evil police to xyz city/county? The line should be "On par for police". It's no different in any other place. Violent criminal gangs are violent in any location not just L.A., Seattle, or Detroit.

Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it. Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.


Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptable. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted.
--- Frank Herbert - Chapterhouse Dune


See also Philip Zimbardo's Stanford prison experiment
2013-01-05 10:48:08 AM
1 votes:

farkingatwork: exactly. He's going to come out with a lot of money and a "do not fark with me" record on him stored by the police.


Wrong, he's going to end up committing suicide by shooting himself in the back seventeen times with a police issue glock.
2013-01-05 10:46:02 AM
1 votes:
FTFA: ...officers' attempts to handcuff him for flight and officer-safety reasons...

So there were three gun-toting, taser-carrying, mace-sporting, body armor-wearing, baton-equipped LEOs vs. one 20 year-old smartass. And the cops tried to cuff him for their OWN safety? Oh, he was a flight risk. Yeah, because if he took off running, Chief Wiggum would be farked.

/SUSPECT IS HATLESS. I REPEAT, HATLESS.
2013-01-05 10:39:59 AM
1 votes:

Wasilla Hillbilly: Dunno if the guy wins a lawsuit, I might call it a win, despite a couple punches to the face and a rough take-down.


exactly. He's going to come out with a lot of money and a "do not fark with me" record on him stored by the police.
2013-01-05 10:39:51 AM
1 votes:

Divorach: thugs who might just hunt them down and kill them and their entire families someday??


That happens all the time. Not.
2013-01-05 10:38:48 AM
1 votes:

stlbluez: the kid cop was a bit of a smart-ass...

2013-01-05 10:38:06 AM
1 votes:
The officers goaded this person into getting agitated and then beat him down (up?) for it. For parking improperly.


Koodz: balling up a fist and punching somebody in the face. It's too intimate to be a police action. Does that make sense?


Considering it is not the officer's duty to dispense justice or punishment then yes, he is out of line. That was no act of self defense.


Just Another OC Homeless Guy: MerelyFoolish: Add to that a bit of protection money and a thorough indoctrination of which criminals are allowed to practice with impunity, and you have a bunch of thugs who are not really concerned about law enforcement.

2/10


The irony is we have police forces because we don't want armed gangs of vigilantes roaming the streets dispensing their own brand of justice. But guess what?
2013-01-05 10:36:07 AM
1 votes:

jmr61: The incident escalated when Ocak resisted the officers' attempts to handcuff him for flight and officer-safety reasons, Whitcomb said."


Fark that. If you put handcuffs on me, then I am clearly not free to leave and am therefore under arrest.
They better have charged him with something.
2013-01-05 10:35:20 AM
1 votes:

jmr61: I think some people need to RTFA:

"At the time, Ocak was being questioned and was not under arrest, according to police Sgt. Sean Whitcomb. The incident escalated when Ocak resisted the officers' attempts to handcuff him for flight and officer-safety reasons, Whitcomb said."

I'm no police apologist but if they cops want to handcuff you and take you to jail resisting them is stupid. You will ALWAYS lose. Go to the station quietly and sort out your problems with them through a lawyer.

Idiot.


the kid was a bit of a smart-ass...but you really should watch the video.
Typically when I hear about cops getting shot... I imagine them being like that guy and it makes it feel ok.
2013-01-05 10:33:38 AM
1 votes:
This story sucks without the video.

I have never heard that shoplifters leave their cars running. It would seem pretty easy to squash that racket if all the store security had to do was put a wheel lock on every car left running in the lot.

/we need the moving pics
2013-01-05 10:26:16 AM
1 votes:

Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.


You don't?? Seriously???
2013-01-05 10:25:13 AM
1 votes:
Between the armor, steroids, taser, stick, pepper spray, and ability to call for backup, I can see no reason for a police officer to ever PUNCH someone. Yes, hitting someone with a stick is more likely to cause injury than a punch, but there's something so visceral about balling up a fist and punching somebody in the face. It's too intimate to be a police action. Does that make sense?
2013-01-05 10:25:11 AM
1 votes:

Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.


As I understand it Seattle has a bunch of nerds and hippies. These groups of people tend to irritate the everloving piss out of anyone trying to control a situation that attracts attention or needs investigation. Nerds continually ask "why" for every little thing like a 5 year old or start quoting laws out of context and internet fighting. Hippies start rambling out of date psudo cosmic yammerings about barriers and community or yelling things that they think socialist revolutionaries would say.

What you end up with is cops with absolutely NO patience for anyone or anything.

/plus too much coffee
SH
2013-01-05 10:25:06 AM
1 votes:
From TFA: Whitcomb said Ocak had left his car running while parked outside a store - a common ploy used by shoplifters cold people.

Article now fixed.
2013-01-05 10:23:40 AM
1 votes:
Was it a fire lane?  Then fark him.  All those assholes should get punched in the face.
2013-01-05 10:22:28 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: You'd think if a cop didn't want to get bitten he wouldn't shove his fingers in a detainee's mouth.  Just sayin'.


A man placed his hand in a mule's mouth to ascertain how many teeth the mule possessed.
The mule closed his mouth to find out how many fingers the man had.

Thus, the curiosity of both the man and the mule were satisfied.
2013-01-05 10:19:24 AM
1 votes:
His teeth cut my knuckles as I was punching him! That counts as a bite, and retroactively justifies my punching him in the first place.

The loop is closed! Causality is preserved.

If they hadn't beaten the guy, it could have destroyed the universe!

Priorities, people.
2013-01-05 10:12:48 AM
1 votes:
According to our records, we can make stuff up about your records....
2013-01-05 10:06:37 AM
1 votes:
At one point, after the officer questioned him about the number of keys on his key ring, Ocak complained, "Why are you being so rude to me?"

Longley responded: "I don't have to be nice to you."


Wait....what's the proper number of keys on a key ring? I have three. Is that too few or too many? I'd better stay out of Seattle just in case it's the wrong number.
2013-01-05 10:03:44 AM
1 votes:
Whitcomb conceded that Longley's abrasive demeanor likely fell short of the department's new community policing credo of "Listening and Explaining with Equity and Dignity," but added that Longley was above the law so stfu.
2013-01-05 03:03:58 AM
1 votes:
On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.
 
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