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(Seattle Times)   Warm up your car while shopping? You best believe that will get you a beat down from Seattle Police   (seattletimes.com) divider line 173
    More: Scary, Seattle Police, Opa, Seattle, SPD, Isaac Ocak, patrol cars  
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15450 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jan 2013 at 9:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-05 10:57:18 AM
Fire the cop, he has no business carrying a gun and badge. Frankly, I'm not sure he could handle a rude drive through customer at McDonalds without getting fired. But I would sure give him the opportunity to try.

/ExCop says: "You want fries with that?"
 
2013-01-05 11:02:46 AM

jmr61: I think some people need to RTFA:

"At the time, Ocak was being questioned and was not under arrest, according to police Sgt. Sean Whitcomb. The incident escalated when Ocak resisted the officers' attempts to handcuff him for flight and officer-safety reasons, Whitcomb said."

I'm no police apologist but if they cops want to handcuff you and take you to jail resisting them is stupid. You will ALWAYS lose. Go to the station quietly and sort out your problems with them through a lawyer.

Idiot.


I did better, I also watched the video. First off, the guy looked of Latino descent. (Hint: this is not racist) I learned in my Spanish class that the Spanish language deals a bit more in body language than English, so if this guy was Latino (hence the Spanish upbringing), that would explain the hand movements. Next, the cop is required to (in my hometown) at least reply to why you need to be in handcuffs, even if the excuse is fake (For your protection or some BS). Third, both were escalating the scene to that, as a rude cop never gets much love from others (heck, my manager is a total shiathead, and is rather hated). Lastly, the guy -was- talking while the cops were trying to subdue him, and the cop had his fingers at his mouth, so talking easily becomes biting.

IMO, it was mutual errors that caused the idiocy. The police however should have been more professional in the start of it.
 
2013-01-05 11:05:35 AM

dpaul007: FTFA: ...officers' attempts to handcuff him for flight and officer-safety reasons...

So there were three gun-toting, taser-carrying, mace-sporting, body armor-wearing, baton-equipped LEOs vs. one 20 year-old smartass. And the cops tried to cuff him for their OWN safety? Oh, he was a flight risk. Yeah, because if he took off running, Chief Wiggum would be farked.

/SUSPECT IS HATLESS. I REPEAT, HATLESS.


One more incident which a makes me wonder what officers do to earn their right to bear arms. It certainly doesn't come from any ability to show good judgement.

/Law enforcement is on the fringe of qualifying as a militia, its certainly not an army.
/yet no one questions when hired men walk around with military grade equipment.
 
2013-01-05 11:05:36 AM
Watching the video is even more interesting. They give him clearly contrary instructions as they have him bent over the hood of a cruiser, then appear to use his noncompliance to the simultaneous, conflicting instructions as reason to cuff him. They don't appear to actually tell him that they're going to cuff him, either. At least, I had my volume cranked and I couldn't hear such words.
 
2013-01-05 11:10:22 AM
Thank heavens. Way to earn those pensions, boys.
 
2013-01-05 11:14:22 AM

mike_d85: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

As I understand it Seattle has a bunch of nerds and hippies. These groups of people tend to irritate the everloving piss out of anyone trying to control a situation that attracts attention or needs investigation. Nerds continually ask "why" for every little thing like a 5 year old or start quoting laws out of context and internet fighting. Hippies start rambling out of date psudo cosmic yammerings about barriers and community or yelling things that they think socialist revolutionaries would say.

What you end up with is cops with absolutely NO patience for anyone or anything.

/plus too much coffee


Yeah, that kid was such a hippie.
 
2013-01-05 11:14:44 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: MerelyFoolish: Unfortunately, the law enforcement occupation attracts folks who are too stupid for business but with a bit more ambition than McDonalds employees. They are given guns and taught that they are above the law. Add to that a bit of protection money and a thorough indoctrination of which criminals are allowed to practice with impunity, and you have a bunch of thugs who are not really concerned about law enforcement.

2/10


This is approximately my experience. I was once roughly frisked by two cops because I was crossing the street at 2am (I was studying for a final and going to 7-11 for some caffeine). No other reason.

I was once almost given a ticket because I pulled out of a driveway in front a cop who was going 75 in an unmarked car with no lights in a 40 zone and he had to *gasp* slow down. He pulled me over and proceeded to tell me off.

fark those guys and every other cop in San Jose.
 
2013-01-05 11:16:11 AM

jmr61: I'm no police apologist but if they cops want to handcuff you and take you to jail resisting them is stupid. You will ALWAYS lose. Go to the station quietly and sort out your problems with them through a lawyer.

Idiot.


Because cops never make false accusations to justify assaulting someone. Especially not officers this describes:

four officers took Isaac Ocak to the pavement after learning he had a prior felony conviction and had been tagged in the department's computer as being "assaultive to officers." However, the department could not provide an incident in which Ocak had ever been so.


Let's just take their word for it.
 
2013-01-05 11:19:07 AM

Arkanaut: Amateurs. NYPD would have just shot him.



And the Chicago PD would have tortured him into confessing to every unsolved homicide in the city.
 
2013-01-05 11:22:42 AM

People_are_Idiots: jmr61: I think some people need to RTFA:

"At the time, Ocak was being questioned and was not under arrest, according to police Sgt. Sean Whitcomb. The incident escalated when Ocak resisted the officers' attempts to handcuff him for flight and officer-safety reasons, Whitcomb said."

I'm no police apologist but if they cops want to handcuff you and take you to jail resisting them is stupid. You will ALWAYS lose. Go to the station quietly and sort out your problems with them through a lawyer.

Idiot.

I did better, I also watched the video. First off, the guy looked of Latino descent. (Hint: this is not racist) I learned in my Spanish class that the Spanish language deals a bit more in body language than English, so if this guy was Latino (hence the Spanish upbringing), that would explain the hand movements. Next, the cop is required to (in my hometown) at least reply to why you need to be in handcuffs, even if the excuse is fake (For your protection or some BS). Third, both were escalating the scene to that, as a rude cop never gets much love from others (heck, my manager is a total shiathead, and is rather hated). Lastly, the guy -was- talking while the cops were trying to subdue him, and the cop had his fingers at his mouth, so talking easily becomes biting.

IMO, it was mutual errors that caused the idiocy. The police however should have been more professional in the start of it.


He's Turkish

This this thread gets better and better.
 
2013-01-05 11:23:16 AM

Rich Cream: The officers goaded this person into getting agitated and then beat him down (up?) for it. For parking improperly.


Koodz: balling up a fist and punching somebody in the face. It's too intimate to be a police action. Does that make sense?

Considering it is not the officer's duty to dispense justice or punishment then yes, he is out of line. That was no act of self defense.


Just Another OC Homeless Guy: MerelyFoolish: Add to that a bit of protection money and a thorough indoctrination of which criminals are allowed to practice with impunity, and you have a bunch of thugs who are not really concerned about law enforcement.

2/10

The irony is we have police forces because we don't want armed gangs of vigilantes roaming the streets dispensing their own brand of justice. But guess what?


Actually, not ironic in the least. Sometime maybe you should research the origin of the nobility in Europe, or old China, or just about anywhere. Most of them started as local bandit chiefs. Their gang would build a fort along a trade route and charge "tolls" to travelers. They would rob see grain from and kill the peasants in the area - until it occurred to them that a living peasant, left with seed grain, could be robbed again and again. Then they found it necessary to PROTECT those same peasants from other bandit chiefs. There you have all the essentials of The State: (1) a monopoly of military control over a geographic area, (2) a tax base of non-gang-members, and (3) action by the gang to protect their turf. That's it! The bandit chiefs left control of the gangs to their sons, who did the same for their sons. Everything grows in complexity and precedent, and pretty soon the bandit chief is calling himself a Baron and making power deals and defensive agreements with a more powerful bandit chief who calls himself a Duke. These eventually are able to morf into nation-states when the peasants develop a sense of "us -vs- them" (nationalism). Eventually the peasants demand more voice in "their" government and the hereditary bandit aristocracy gets replaced by elected representatives.

A legitimate government is a bandit kingdom that has "made good" through the action of wise (or at least not too stupid) leadership, accident, historical precedent, and some form of "consent of the governed."

It's all there in the history books.

Also of interest: Churchill's History of the English Speaking Peoples. It contains a fascinating account of the evolution of the Saxons. Thumbnail version: The Normans conquered the Saxons and decided to defend their conquests by building a bunch of fortified castles. They literally chained the Saxons into slave work teams to build them. This took decades. After a long while the chains came off, the Saxons built little homes around the castles, and finally were ready to take up arms FOR their lords and masters. The Norman conquest had become legitimized. Today there are two major distinct dialects in England, based on the fact that the majority of the "working class" are descended from the conquered Saxons, and the majority of the "ruling class" are descended from the Normans. Interestingly, several old and legitimate Saxon words like "fark" became vulgar BECAUSE they were words used by the conquered and despised Saxons.
 
2013-01-05 11:23:43 AM

mhedstrom: These guys better not ever come to the mountains of Colorado in the winter. They'd have a whole lot of "questioning" to do with *everybody* leaving their cars running if it's a short enough period of time.


Leaving your car running unattended is a crime here in COS. Not that it deters anyone. Luckily plenty of meth heads have taken to librerating these cars from people around here. Wish they'd get around to my neighbor. I'm looking at you Mr. loud truck at 5am for 25 minutes guy.
 
2013-01-05 11:28:12 AM

NewbornRook: mike_d85: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

As I understand it Seattle has a bunch of nerds and hippies. These groups of people tend to irritate the everloving piss out of anyone trying to control a situation that attracts attention or needs investigation. Nerds continually ask "why" for every little thing like a 5 year old or start quoting laws out of context and internet fighting. Hippies start rambling out of date psudo cosmic yammerings about barriers and community or yelling things that they think socialist revolutionaries would say.

What you end up with is cops with absolutely NO patience for anyone or anything.

/plus too much coffee

I was going to pose the question "If you had to be a cop in one of the most hipster populated cities in the country, do you think YOU would be nice after sometime dealing with those tards?"

But I digress, part of law enforcement is dealing with all types of people, its just a shame the career attracts the wrong type to deal with said people.


I talk a lot with cops (we all hang out in shopping center parking lots a lot). Interestingly, A huge percentage of the cops in the Tustin PD have college degrees - in Psychology. Smart. They also attend mandatory continuing education seminars in conflict resolution, de-escalation, etc.
 
2013-01-05 11:28:17 AM
How many keys are on your keyring? Good thing they didn't ask me that because I just studied on it and came up with 6. Then I went and checked my keyring and found I was off by two. They probably would have arrested me for "providing false information to law enforcement".
 
2013-01-05 11:29:53 AM
Whitcomb said Ocak had left his car running while parked outside a store - a common ploy used by shoplifters.

farking pig mentality. Everyone is a suspect.
 
2013-01-05 11:30:43 AM
I was told by Fark liberals that the police could do no wrong and that I should turn in my guns because these brave heros will come to my rescue at the drop of a hat. It's weird there's such a huge disconnect between people like Weaver95 and reality.
 
2013-01-05 11:31:13 AM
Would have been double bad here in Burlington, VT, crunchy land. They have a no idling ordinance too.
 
2013-01-05 11:32:03 AM

duffblue: I was told by Fark liberals that the police could do no wrong and that I should turn in my guns because these brave heros will come to my rescue at the drop of a hat. It's weird there's such a huge disconnect between people like Weaver95 and reality.


That's funny. I was told by FARK gun-nuts that they were concerned about the rise of tyranny and oppression in this country, and that they wouldn't stand for it.
 
2013-01-05 11:32:42 AM
It's very clear who commits the assault in the video.
 
2013-01-05 11:33:15 AM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: Just Another OC Homeless Guy: MerelyFoolish: Unfortunately, the law enforcement occupation attracts folks who are too stupid for business but with a bit more ambition than McDonalds employees. They are given guns and taught that they are above the law. Add to that a bit of protection money and a thorough indoctrination of which criminals are allowed to practice with impunity, and you have a bunch of thugs who are not really concerned about law enforcement.

2/10

This is approximately my experience. I was once roughly frisked by two cops because I was crossing the street at 2am (I was studying for a final and going to 7-11 for some caffeine). No other reason.

I was once almost given a ticket because I pulled out of a driveway in front a cop who was going 75 in an unmarked car with no lights in a 40 zone and he had to *gasp* slow down. He pulled me over and proceeded to tell me off.

fark those guys and every other cop in San Jose.



LOL! Another nice progressive town.

There's a pattern here.....
 
2013-01-05 11:33:55 AM
I love the irony - cop tells the kid that he is retarded because the whole thing is being recorded
 
2013-01-05 11:34:29 AM
Seattle - land of the perpetual grunge, pot, sour attitudes, bad weather and Nanny Staters
 
2013-01-05 11:34:47 AM
Watching this, I am reminded that police department screening tests eliminate applicants that score too highly.
 
2013-01-05 11:35:03 AM

Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.


Progressive usually progresses into Gestapo.
 
2013-01-05 11:35:13 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: NewbornRook: mike_d85: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

As I understand it Seattle has a bunch of nerds and hippies. These groups of people tend to irritate the everloving piss out of anyone trying to control a situation that attracts attention or needs investigation. Nerds continually ask "why" for every little thing like a 5 year old or start quoting laws out of context and internet fighting. Hippies start rambling out of date psudo cosmic yammerings about barriers and community or yelling things that they think socialist revolutionaries would say.

What you end up with is cops with absolutely NO patience for anyone or anything.

/plus too much coffee

I was going to pose the question "If you had to be a cop in one of the most hipster populated cities in the country, do you think YOU would be nice after sometime dealing with those tards?"

But I digress, part of law enforcement is dealing with all types of people, its just a shame the career attracts the wrong type to deal with said people.

I talk a lot with cops (we all hang out in shopping center parking lots a lot). Interestingly, A huge percentage of the cops in the Tustin PD have college degrees - in Psychology. Smart. They also attend mandatory continuing education seminars in conflict resolution, de-escalation, etc.


I think that's why more and more departments are starting to require college degrees. Out here in CO though, the majority still only require a HS diploma. The conflict seminars part is interesting, I don't think I've ever heard of departments requiring that type of training. Just normally the physical force and verbal judo techniques.
 
2013-01-05 11:37:28 AM
Never Talk to the Police

Should be requisite viewing for all High Schoolers.
 
2013-01-05 11:39:37 AM

RedVentrue: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

Progressive usually progresses into Gestapo.


Look at the nation. We are about 2 steps away from Obama having Brown Shirts.
 
2013-01-05 11:43:43 AM

born_yesterday: duffblue: I was told by Fark liberals that the police could do no wrong and that I should turn in my guns because these brave heros will come to my rescue at the drop of a hat. It's weird there's such a huge disconnect between people like Weaver95 and reality.

That's funny. I was told by FARK gun-nuts that they were concerned about the rise of tyranny and oppression in this country, and that they wouldn't stand for it.


I was told the same thing, I wonder when they'll start using their guns.
 
2013-01-05 11:48:28 AM

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

You don't?? Seriously???


+1 seems like no matter which extreme side you swing there is always a Gestapo-like police force

greggerm: Is Seattle really a city with the climate cool enough to leave your car running to keep it warm?

Weather almanac for Seattle on December 29, 2010 shows a high of 43 and a low of 37... hardly "warm up the car" temperatures.

Hmm.


Depends on where you are from and how long you have lived in that climate range. Like here in South East Texas people are talking about wrapping pipes and bundling up when leaving the house. It is in the mid 40's here I'm still in just a long sleeve shirt. (grew up in northern Ohio)
 
2013-01-05 11:50:30 AM

ReverendJasen: No matter how progressive a town might be, law enforcement always attracts authoritarian douchebags and bullies.



"Progressive" and "authoritarian" are not necessarily on opposite ends of the spectrum.
 
2013-01-05 11:56:03 AM

Rich Cream: Divorach: thugs who might just hunt them down and kill them and their entire families someday??

That happens all the time. Not.


Soon.
 
2013-01-05 11:57:56 AM
Yeah the keys on the key ring question is text book authoritarian bully behaviour (as is asking why someone has kept their car running - if those FOUR!!!! officers were that worried they could have just waited outside and been prepared to shoot the evil shoplifter.)
 
2013-01-05 11:58:48 AM
Why do you have so many keys?

See questions like that do nothing but evoke rage of the person being detained and antagonize the situation even more.  It feels like harassment at that point.
 
2013-01-05 12:06:17 PM

Endive Wombat: Never Talk to the Police

Should be requisite viewing for all High Schoolers.


Have watched that many times - and its whole premise still scares me. They should by definition know the laws better than me and as a citizen I am pretty sure they swore to protect me *shrug* seems not.
 
2013-01-05 12:08:29 PM

kombat_unit: Warm up your car while shopping? Or getting ready to shoplift?


Posting on Fark? Or writing a manifesto?

See how dumb that sounds?
 
2013-01-05 12:17:54 PM

Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.


Because that's where all the assholes end up. Police departments are dumping grounds for stupid assholes.
 
2013-01-05 12:22:25 PM

mike_d85: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

As I understand it Seattle has a bunch of nerds and hippies. These groups of people tend to irritate the everloving piss out of anyone trying to control a situation that attracts attention or needs investigation. Nerds continually ask "why" for every little thing like a 5 year old or start quoting laws out of context and internet fighting. Hippies start rambling out of date psudo cosmic yammerings about barriers and community or yelling things that they think socialist revolutionaries would say.

What you end up with is cops with absolutely NO patience for anyone or anything.

/plus too much coffee


How dare those people ask questions about why they are being detained or what they did wrong or just talking in general. They should just shut up and trust that the cops know exactly what they're doing at all times, right? Geez it's no wonder the cops have to break some skulls every once in a while.
 
2013-01-05 12:24:25 PM
The environment police have arrived to save us all...

At least the man didn't have scary black assault things in his car.
 
2013-01-05 12:32:48 PM

lack of warmth: Although, I think it has more to do with protecting the insurance companies from having to pay morans for letting their cars be stolen so easily.


95% of auto-related laws (including the new ultra-strict dui laws) are about protecting insurance companies. Believe that, friend, cause it. is. farking. true.
 
2013-01-05 12:40:16 PM

Thunderpipes: RedVentrue: Dinjiin: On par for SPD.  Not only to they "not have to be nice", they excel at it.  Never understood how such a progressive city ended up with such a Gestapo-like police force.

Progressive usually progresses into Gestapo.

Look at the nation. We are about 2 steps away from Obama having Brown Shirts.


Lucky for us St. Reagan was way WAY more progressive than Obama, you farking troll.
 
2013-01-05 12:41:37 PM

NewbornRook: I was going to pose the question "If you had to be a cop in one of the most hipster populated cities in the country, do you think YOU would be nice after sometime dealing with those tards?"


From what I hear, dealing with the dregs of society from anyplace, hipster city or not, can turn the nicest of policemen into raging a-holes after time. But if you do get to that point, then perhaps a change in career is in order? If you can't come to that conclusion yourself, perhaps your employer should be able to recognize that time for you.

But then, how is it any different from any other customer facing job? Our department at work just had to let some dude go because he was getting increasingly belligerent with customers. Granted, half of our customers couldn't even count to potato, but that's just the way it is.
 
2013-01-05 12:42:34 PM

Madbassist1: lack of warmth: Although, I think it has more to do with protecting the insurance companies from having to pay morans for letting their cars be stolen so easily.

95% of auto-related laws (including the new ultra-strict dui laws) are about protecting insurance companies. Believe that, friend, cause it. is. farking. true.


I do not necessarily see that as a bad thing.  Because of heavy lobbying, we have safer cars, safer roads...
 
2013-01-05 12:44:49 PM
The Portland Police are much nicer.

pigeonsandplanes.com
 
2013-01-05 12:47:14 PM

Dinjiin: But then, how is it any different from any other customer facing job?


I can totally see how nice enough guys over time can turn into raging dickhead cops.  At some point, you just start to hate the people you deal with day in and day out...compound that with the fact that there are people who want to KILL YOU because you choose to help keep society in order.

I know how I became jaded with the restaurant business.  I was sick and tired of complaining customers, rude customers, etc.  I was just over it!  Now I am not trying to help the cops justify the way they treated this guy, but I do understand why cops most of the time are total dicks.
 
2013-01-05 12:47:17 PM

duffblue: I was told by Fark liberals that the police could do no wrong and that I should turn in my guns because these brave heros will come to my rescue at the drop of a hat. It's weird there's such a huge disconnect between people like Weaver95 and reality.


Well, bless your heart.
 
2013-01-05 12:48:57 PM

Endive Wombat: Never Talk to the Police

Should be requisite viewing for all High Schoolers.


Link

Granted, all she has to do is get a lawyer and the case will be immediately dismissed, but it's still a pain in the ass for her, not to mention the expense.
 
2013-01-05 12:51:06 PM

Dinjiin: hipster city or not


We need a bunch of good old rednecks up here to teach us how to live while sticking their heterosexual cocks up our skinny assholes.

I almost killed myself once when I read on Fark that I was hipster. Being in a hipster city and all. Learning the definition from old stupid men that look like women who live in Kentucky.
 
2013-01-05 12:51:16 PM

Endive Wombat: Dinjiin: But then, how is it any different from any other customer facing job?

I can totally see how nice enough guys over time can turn into raging dickhead cops.  At some point, you just start to hate the people you deal with day in and day out...compound that with the fact that there are people who want to KILL YOU because you choose to help keep society in order.

I know how I became jaded with the restaurant business.  I was sick and tired of complaining customers, rude customers, etc.  I was just over it!  Now I am not trying to help the cops justify the way they treated this guy, but I do understand why cops most of the time are total dicks.


From what I understand, 90% of beat cop work is "repeat customers" - locations and people that they come to know as problems. I wouldn't understand that as turning them into dickheads - but that would give me reason to understand they are much more concerned, especially in their line of work, about the unfamiliar, and treat new strangeness much more cautiously.

I'm not an LEO myself, I just talk with them, so I could be all sorts of mistaken. It certainly is true that the work jades officers and encourages them to develop stereotypes.
 
2013-01-05 12:53:25 PM

Endive Wombat: Why do you have so many keys?

See questions like that do nothing but evoke rage of the person being detained and antagonize the situation even more.  It feels like

is harassment at that point.
 
2013-01-05 12:54:58 PM

Arkanaut: Amateurs. NYPD would have just shot him.


you mean "just shot at him".

(I don't have the HTML skills do that fixed that for you thing)
 
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