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However, those who tried to give up and failed were more stressed than in the beginning, the British Journal of Psychiatry reports.

Yet another reason not to bother trying.

Tense?

What do you mean, "tense"? I'm not tense, you're tense! Uh huh THAT'S right!!

F*CK YOU, that's what!

I smoked a pack a day for ten years. So very glad that I finally quit. That was years ago.

That said, this report is bullshiat. There is no better drug then nicotine. You want to feel relaxed? It will help you. You want to feel amped? It will help you. Amazing drug. People who deny it's power are liars.

So, 68 out of 491 that started the program felt less stress when they were done, and the rest felt pretty much the same as they did when they started, or more stressed?

I'm going to go ahead and reject H0=quitting smoking reduces stress.

Is it really stress relieve when not having it is what makes you crawl up the walls?

Nicotine relieves the stress of nicotine withdrawal.

That is all.

I only appear tense because I have to go outside to smoke in 25F weather : (

/Quitting again soon.

That myth never made sense to me either. I tried smoking once or twice and it made me feel light headed, dizzy and later like I was going to puke. Nothing relaxing there.

fusillade762: Yet another reason not to bother trying.

Do or do not.

That sounds like the worst study ever done.

The researchers are less sure why stress levels rose in those who failed to quit. But it may be that their failure - and thoughts of the damage their habit was doing to their health - made them worry more.
This increase in stress levels was particularly high in those with depression and other psychiatric problems and the researchers said doctors should be aware of this.

If you have a lot of people in your study with psychiatric problems, then OF COURSE they're going to have high stress levels--before, during and after attempting to quit--and OF COURSE it's going to be unclear what caused the change. And it seems pretty clear that if one of the reasons they were trying to quit is fear for their health, then knowing they failed is going to make things worse.

These guys are pretty bad researchers.

From my experience:

I get nothing from cigarettes.
I got a head rush from hookah
I get a biatchin' head rush from dip and nasal snuff.

I haven't had any of the above in over a year and only used the above at most 3 times a month.

STOP IT STOP IT STOP IT!!!!!
/oldie but goodie

Gulliver: Nicotine relieves the stress of nicotine withdrawal.

That is all.

yup

me while smoking for 15 years:
nerve/stress rollercoaster

me after quitting smoking:
still kinda crazy, but not "OMG I NEED A CIGARETTE" crazy every time I got a curve ball thrown into my day

cigars get me through the couple of bar trips / pool nights every month. something about drinking in public around other smokers... I don't think I'll ever be able to shake that.

Smoker for 25 years, at the end I was up to two packs a day. Have been off them for a month.

Stressed? Yes, but it eases.

Drink!

Oh and if you ever wanted to get kicked in the face with a mint covered boot, try this

Banacek: There is no better drug then nicotine.

Nicotine is just about the most lethal poison known to our species. Short-term-high-dose? Instant death. Long-term-low-dose? Tobacco addiction, cancer, and death. Bonus: your kids are more likely to be non-X-Men mutant failures.

Seriously, you'd be better off addicting yourself to cocaine.

I'm on day 4 of not smoking and the best part of quitting is that if you are an asshole and tell people you are trying to quit, than they forgive you.

Britney Spear's Speculum: From my experience:

I get nothing from cigarettes.
I got a head rush from hookah
I get a biatchin' head rush from dip and nasal snuff.

I haven't had any of the above in over a year and only used the above at most 3 times a month.

Weird. I get nothing at all from dip/chew/snuff, and a major head rush from cigarettes.

Haven't had anything at all for well over a year.

/ecigs gave me nothing except an excuse to quit.

ordinarysteve: I'm on day 4 of not smoking and the best part of quitting is that if you are an asshole and tell people you are trying to quit, than they forgive you.

Nah, the best part is 5+years later when you can tell people "Yeah, been there. Best of luck to you..."

/I hope.
//Best of luck to you.
///These days the only time I want a cigarette is when I hear an anti-smoking ad. Seriously.

Warrener: Weird. I get nothing at all from dip/chew/snuff, and a major head rush from cigarettes.

This is indeed weird. I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority.

Whole family smokes, other than me, and I've seen many of them go for a comfort smoke while stressed. Even if nicotine did nothing to alleviate that stress I'd have to imagine that there is a fairly strong placebo element to the whole issue.

Even if said stress relief was only due to the sated need for smoking.

Banacek: I smoked a pack a day for ten years. So very glad that I finally quit. That was years ago.

That said, this report is bullshiat. There is no better drug then nicotine. You want to feel relaxed? It will help you. You want to feel amped? It will help you. Amazing drug. People who deny it's power are liars.

The above^

/16 months quit after more years than I care to admit
//still want a f*cking cigarette, though

Suck it cancer boy, suck it HARD!!!

Gyrfalcon: That sounds like the worst study ever done.

The researchers are less sure why stress levels rose in those who failed to quit. But it may be that their failure - and thoughts of the damage their habit was doing to their health - made them worry more.
This increase in stress levels was particularly high in those with depression and other psychiatric problems and the researchers said doctors should be aware of this.

If you have a lot of people in your study with psychiatric problems, then OF COURSE they're going to have high stress levels--before, during and after attempting to quit--and OF COURSE it's going to be unclear what caused the change. And it seems pretty clear that if one of the reasons they were trying to quit is fear for their health, then knowing they failed is going to make things worse.

These guys are pretty bad researchers.

I've always heard and I believe smoking is a form of self medication for people with depression and other issues, take that away and change nothing in their meds, yeah their gonna fail and feel what they were self medicating for.

And yes they do seem pretty bad at it.

Gulliver: Nicotine relieves the stress of nicotine withdrawal.

That is all.

...and done here.

/trying to quit
//knows it is do or do not

Lung cancer makes you calm and un-stressed?

/ Watched a couple of family members die painful deaths
// But, gee, at least they enjoyed their cigs beforehand!

Fano: Won't quitting make you live longer? How can that be? The Fark wisdom is that we don't live longer than 3000 years ago, and therefore can't live longer.
/I think we hit peak retard that day

BuckTurgidson: Banacek: There is no better drug then nicotine.

Nicotine is just about the most lethal poison known to our species. Short-term-high-dose? Instant death. Long-term-low-dose? Tobacco addiction, cancer, and death. Bonus: your kids are more likely to be non-X-Men mutant failures.

Seriously, you'd be better off addicting yourself to cocaine.

I live with my mom

/id.10

jaytkay: Lung cancer makes you calm and un-stressed?

/ Watched a couple of family members die painful deaths
// But, gee, at least they enjoyed their cigs beforehand!

/Troll

Fano: Gulliver: Nicotine relieves the stress of nicotine withdrawal.

That is all.

...and done here.

/trying to quit
//knows it is do or do not

Good Luck to yo I be right there with you after I finish my last two packs.

/I've done it before
//I started back because of high stress and yea it helped.
/I hope I never have to quit again after this time.

I always thought the relaxing bit about smoking was the deep breathing associated with the action of smoking, not the actual nicotine itself.

Linkster: jaytkay: Lung cancer makes you calm and un-stressed?

/ Watched a couple of family members die painful deaths
// But, gee, at least they enjoyed their cigs beforehand!

/Troll

Fano:
//knows it is do or do not

I got sick of the smell on me and my clothes. And the company, but that's another story.

Crumpled half a pack and trashed it and never bought or bummed another.

Give it two weeks. You'll feel better, your attitude is better, your cock stays harder longer, you have more money, your time is freeer.

Don't trust me, try it for yourself.

tinfoil-hat maggie: I only appear tense because I have to go outside to smoke in 25F weather : (

/Quitting again soon.

poo. i was out just the other morning when it was 5 smoking a cigarette AND a pipe.

at the same time?

kinda sorta

Quitting is almost *all* psychological. That's the challenge; not the nicotine addiction that clears after a few (murderous) days.

I quit after 8 years, and it was downright easy. And I'm no paragon of self-discipline and willpower. The trick is simple:

While your resolve and self-discipline are at their strongest, and you've made that hard decision, deliberately expose yourself to *everything* that makes you reach for a cigarette. Get drunk, fark like a rabbit, visit your mother-in-law, every stressor or trigger you can think of. That temporary, but all-important surge of willpower will get you through it.

And when you're done? Nothing short of WW3 will push you to start again.

Also, tasting food is nice.

Fano: Gulliver: Nicotine relieves the stress of nicotine withdrawal.

That is all.

...and done here.

/trying to quit
//knows it is do or do not

Having been there, the only advice I can offer is try to get healthy first. Once you've done that, quitting is a helluva lot easier.

IME, picking up cardio 3x a week helped a huge amount. Doing several different elimination diets in a row probably helped a little bit more.

Starting heavy lifting really helped a lot. Lifting heavy things triggers a lot of the same receptors and will give you a similar rush.

codemastaflex: I always thought the relaxing bit about smoking was the deep breathing associated with the action of smoking, not the actual nicotine itself.

I think you're pretty much right. I've often thought this my longest period of time without smoking as an adult I did lots of yoga and yea I can see it. Although there are some true medicinal purposes of tobacco, one it it can take the toxin out of a bee sting and make it feel better almost instantly, although that's applied topically to the sting as a paste.

I've been using an e-cig for just over a year now. Not going to hawk a particular brand but mine is great. A good place for info is e-cigarette forum dot com - it's not sponsored by any company and it is all user submitted info and reviews.

Omahawg: tinfoil-hat maggie: I only appear tense because I have to go outside to smoke in 25F weather : (

/Quitting again soon.

poo. i was out just the other morning when it was 5 smoking a cigarette AND a pipe.

at the same time?

kinda sorta

If I something for my pipe, I would be alright ; )

Do, or do not. There is no try

/Frigid poultry FTW

aagrajag: Quitting is almost *all* psychological. That's the challenge; not the nicotine addiction that clears after a few (murderous) days.

I quit after 8 years, and it was downright easy. And I'm no paragon of self-discipline and willpower. The trick is simple:

While your resolve and self-discipline are at their strongest, and you've made that hard decision, deliberately expose yourself to *everything* that makes you reach for a cigarette. Get drunk, fark like a rabbit, visit your mother-in-law, every stressor or trigger you can think of. That temporary, but all-important surge of willpower will get you through it.

And when you're done? Nothing short of WW3 will push you to start again.

Also, tasting food is nice.

That's your experience - everyone is different. Copious amounts of alcohol are helping me just fine.

Quantum Apostrophe: Fano: Won't quitting make you live longer? How can that be? The Fark wisdom is that we don't live longer than 3000 years ago, and therefore can't live longer.
/I think we hit peak retard that day

Nice to see your stupidity level is still in the kilopalin range. You know you are full of shiat and you know why. It's been explained to you numerous times.

Banacek: There is no better drug then nicotine.

10/10.

aagrajag: Quitting is almost *all* psychological. That's the challenge; not the nicotine addiction that clears after a few (murderous) days.

I quit after 8 years, and it was downright easy. And I'm no paragon of self-discipline and willpower. The trick is simple:

While your resolve and self-discipline are at their strongest, and you've made that hard decision, deliberately expose yourself to *everything* that makes you reach for a cigarette. Get drunk, fark like a rabbit, visit your mother-in-law, every stressor or trigger you can think of. That temporary, but all-important surge of willpower will get you through it.

And when you're done? Nothing short of WW3 will push you to start again.

Also, tasting food is nice.

I'm not going to argue with you about that assertion, but where do you get that spike of resolve and self-discipline from?

I've also never understood the sentiment of "tasting food" again that I've heard from so many people. Personally, I tasted food as well when I smoked a pack+ per day as I do now. The only real difference is more sensitivity to capsacin and a bit less to horseradish (and those are related to dietary choices from the last several months.)

steerforth: aagrajag: Quitting is almost *all* psychological. That's the challenge; not the nicotine addiction that clears after a few (murderous) days.

I quit after 8 years, and it was downright easy. And I'm no paragon of self-discipline and willpower. The trick is simple:

While your resolve and self-discipline are at their strongest, and you've made that hard decision, deliberately expose yourself to *everything* that makes you reach for a cigarette. Get drunk, fark like a rabbit, visit your mother-in-law, every stressor or trigger you can think of. That temporary, but all-important surge of willpower will get you through it.

And when you're done? Nothing short of WW3 will push you to start again.

Also, tasting food is nice.

That's your experience - everyone is different. Copious amounts of alcohol are helping me just fine.

Hah. Now, if only the same method worked with alcohol...

Seriously though, everyone's willpower wanes with time, so confronting your triggers while at your strongest just makes sense. It's also the very opposite of what most people do, so I imagine not too many have tried it. Most people avoid stress when they're quitting. You know, they pick a long weekend, board themselves up with a bunch of shiatty movies, and pointedly avoid stress of any sort.

Yes, this is simply my experience. But when I say I ain't Mr. Self Discipline, I mean it. I must have done something right.

Quantum Apostrophe: Fano: Won't quitting make you live longer? How can that be? The Fark wisdom is that we don't live longer than 3000 years ago, and therefore can't live longer.
/I think we hit peak retard that day

No, it is quite clear we just hit peak retard.

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Banacek: I smoked a pack a day for ten years. So very glad that I finally quit. That was years ago.

That said, this report is bullshiat. There is no better drug then nicotine. You want to feel relaxed? It will help you. You want to feel amped? It will help you. Amazing drug. People who deny it's power are liars.

The above^

/16 months quit after more years than I care to admit
//still want a f*cking cigarette, though

My 10th anniversary of quitting was back in August, the still wanting one still happens, just less and less often. At this point, maybe once a month or two.  (20+yrs pack-a-day)

I've been on the eCigarette for the last few months with the occasional real cigarette.  None today, two yesterday, but hitting that electronic thing constantly.

I'm going to go ahead and say that a large part of the stress relief or calming effect probably has something to do with spending 3-5 minutes taking long, deep breaths and letting them out slowly.

Smoked for almost 20 years. Going to hit the 2 year smoke free mark next month.

Warrener: aagrajag: Quitting is almost *all* psychological. That's the challenge; not the nicotine addiction that clears after a few (murderous) days.

I quit after 8 years, and it was downright easy. And I'm no paragon of self-discipline and willpower. The trick is simple:

While your resolve and self-discipline are at their strongest, and you've made that hard decision, deliberately expose yourself to *everything* that makes you reach for a cigarette. Get drunk, fark like a rabbit, visit your mother-in-law, every stressor or trigger you can think of. That temporary, but all-important surge of willpower will get you through it.

And when you're done? Nothing short of WW3 will push you to start again.

Also, tasting food is nice.

I'm not going to argue with you about that assertion, but where do you get that spike of resolve and self-discipline from?

I've also never understood the sentiment of "tasting food" again that I've heard from so many people. Personally, I tasted food as well when I smoked a pack+ per day as I do now. The only real difference is more sensitivity to capsacin and a bit less to horseradish (and those are related to dietary choices from the last several months.)

That? Everyone's different. Whatever motivates you to even attempt to quit. You find you can take a flight of stairs, you fall asleep with a cigarette and nearly burn down the house, you watch a loved one die of lung cancer... doesn't matter.

What does matter is whatever first motivates you *will* wane with time. So strike while you're strongest, fresh from whatever revelation finally causes you to crumple up that last, half-finished pack in disgust.

For me? I had enough money for cigarettes, or calling my girlfriend who was 4 hours away. I chose her. She's now my wife. I chose well.

Ed Grubermann:Nice to see your stupidity level is still in the kilopalin range. You know you are full of shiat and you know why. It's been explained to you numerous times.

I am going to use that kilopalin stupidity bit somewhere in the next few days, that is awesome. still giggling.

There's a difference between something relieving stress from the beginning, and having an addiction raise its ugly head and refuse to go away until you feed it.

I've never been de-stressed from a cigarette. Well, any more than just stepping outside for a moment and contemplating the world would de-stress me, anyway.

But IDK, I've never been addicted to cigarettes either, I smoke for a month or few and then quit for a month or few, largely at random.
/ quitting again, for a while, today, actually
// out to smoke my last one 'till spring or summer

aagrajag: steerforth: aagrajag: Quitting is almost *all* psychological. That's the challenge; not the nicotine addiction that clears after a few (murderous) days.

I quit after 8 years, and it was downright easy. And I'm no paragon of self-discipline and willpower. The trick is simple:

While your resolve and self-discipline are at their strongest, and you've made that hard decision, deliberately expose yourself to *everything* that makes you reach for a cigarette. Get drunk, fark like a rabbit, visit your mother-in-law, every stressor or trigger you can think of. That temporary, but all-important surge of willpower will get you through it.

And when you're done? Nothing short of WW3 will push you to start again.

Also, tasting food is nice.

That's your experience - everyone is different. Copious amounts of alcohol are helping me just fine.

Hah. Now, if only the same method worked with alcohol...

Seriously though, everyone's willpower wanes with time, so confronting your triggers while at your strongest just makes sense. It's also the very opposite of what most people do, so I imagine not too many have tried it. Most people avoid stress when they're quitting. You know, they pick a long weekend, board themselves up with a bunch of shiatty movies, and pointedly avoid stress of any sort.

Yes, this is simply my experience. But when I say I ain't Mr. Self Discipline, I mean it. I must have done something right.

Having tried the lozenge, gum, and the patch, I've found that straight up cold turkey, combined with a cellphone app that marks achievements plus Allan Carr philosophy seems to be working best for me. Once past the initial physical period that's over pretty quick, it appears to be a psychological long game.

aagrajag: steerforth: aagrajag: Quitting is almost *all* psychological. That's the challenge; not the nicotine addiction that clears after a few (murderous) days.

I quit after 8 years, and it was downright easy. And I'm no paragon of self-discipline and willpower. The trick is simple:

While your resolve and self-discipline are at their strongest, and you've made that hard decision, deliberately expose yourself to *everything* that makes you reach for a cigarette. Get drunk, fark like a rabbit, visit your mother-in-law, every stressor or trigger you can think of. That temporary, but all-important surge of willpower will get you through it.

And when you're done? Nothing short of WW3 will push you to start again.

Also, tasting food is nice.

That's your experience - everyone is different. Copious amounts of alcohol are helping me just fine.

Hah. Now, if only the same method worked with alcohol...

Seriously though, everyone's willpower wanes with time, so confronting your triggers while at your strongest just makes sense. It's also the very opposite of what most people do, so I imagine not too many have tried it. Most people avoid stress when they're quitting. You know, they pick a long weekend, board themselves up with a bunch of shiatty movies, and pointedly avoid stress of any sort.

Yes, this is simply my experience. But when I say I ain't Mr. Self Discipline, I mean it. I must have done something right.

My alcoholic dad used to test his willpower by going to the pub and ordering coffee. Didn't work out for him in the end but if it's working for you, well done.

I'm not doing anything that much different, just not smoking, chewing gum and allowing myself more alcohol than usual. I am finding myself following smokers down the street and snorting up their noxious fumes, however. I look forward to the day when I no longer like the smell. In the meantime, people think I'm some weirdo mugger with a sinus problem.

I had a brief flirtation with smoking when I was a teenager and I am so thankful that unlike some of my peers I didn't get addicted. I remember the effects of nicotine were powerful. First time I had a cigarette I nearly fell over from the head rush. On subsequent occasions a smoke was a moment to pause and reflect - an almost meditative experience - you don't really just take the opportunity to sit and chill when you're in public.

Of course, that was nothing compared to the mellowing effects of weed, but the times I had that were more social and in not so public locations.

A decade ago when I was a smoker I had read studies showing that the physiological evidence of stress went up in smokers immediately following a cig.

This study may be new, but the concept that a stimulant doesn't actually lower stress is nothing new.

It feels like it helps when you are a smoker because you both quell your desire for one and are generally having one while on a break or drinking.

I doubt smoking had one positive effect on my life, tbh. Well, that isn't true. I still enjoy a few if I'm drinking.

I just lit up after spending 10 hours on a plane, so fark you.

Great method to quit (if you can do it).

Step 1:

Quit, duh.

Step 2:

If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you $6+ dollars (almost$10 here in Chi) for each cig.

Step 3:

Profit?

Master race reporting in.

Quit cigs, but always had that craving. No mas.

/hot.

Subby: You're mistaking increased stress when you quit with decreased stress when you smoke. Not the same thing, sorry. When you are smoking, your stress levels are the same as a nonsmoker; it's just that you increase them above the levels of a nonsmoker by trying to quit.

/sure you already knew all this, but I like to state the obvious
//obviously
///ex-smoker myself

LincolnLogolas: I just lit up after spending 10 hours on a plane, so fark you.

I've been curious why no one has exploited the market of selling patches or nicotine gum in small quantities at airports. Finding a smoking lounge or having to leave the airport are not great options for the feening traveler.

johne3819: If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you $6+ dollars (almost$10 here in Chi) for each cig.

I found the exact opposite; it was easier to quit when I had a few cigs left in the pack. If I finished the pack, the lack of the ability to quickly obtain a cigarette made me feel nervous, and that nervous feeling manifested itself as going out, buying a pack, and smoking one. At least a few cigs in the pack left, and I quit cold turkey on the first try. And yes, I smoked regularly (half to one pack a day for multiple years beforehand.)

Just got over the 100 days no smoking mark (after 30yrs).
NEVER will go back, won't kid ya the first week was the worst.

johne3819: Great method to quit (if you can do it).

Step 1:

Quit, duh.

Step 2:

If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you $6+ dollars (almost$10 here in Chi) for each cig.

Step 3:

Profit?

My last pack of Peter Stuyvesant 25s cost $17.50 here in Australia. jaytkay: Linkster: jaytkay: Lung cancer makes you calm and un-stressed? / Watched a couple of family members die painful deaths // But, gee, at least they enjoyed their cigs beforehand! /Troll Double your daily cigarette intake, please. You deserve it. Sorry, I'm fine. Lots of things out there can and will kill you. if you live long enough for that second hand smoke, carbon emissions, UV Rays, food poisoning to kill you, well good on you! steerforth: johne3819: Great method to quit (if you can do it). Step 1: Quit, duh. Step 2: If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you$6+ dollars (almost $10 here in Chi) for each cig. Step 3: Profit? My last pack of Peter Stuyvesant 25s cost$17.50 here in Australia.

$15.35 for a pack here in Canada steerforth: aagrajag: steerforth: aagrajag: Quitting is almost *all* psychological. That's the challenge; not the nicotine addiction that clears after a few (murderous) days. I quit after 8 years, and it was downright easy. And I'm no paragon of self-discipline and willpower. The trick is simple: While your resolve and self-discipline are at their strongest, and you've made that hard decision, deliberately expose yourself to *everything* that makes you reach for a cigarette. Get drunk, fark like a rabbit, visit your mother-in-law, every stressor or trigger you can think of. That temporary, but all-important surge of willpower will get you through it. And when you're done? Nothing short of WW3 will push you to start again. Also, tasting food is nice. That's your experience - everyone is different. Copious amounts of alcohol are helping me just fine. Hah. Now, if only the same method worked with alcohol... Seriously though, everyone's willpower wanes with time, so confronting your triggers while at your strongest just makes sense. It's also the very opposite of what most people do, so I imagine not too many have tried it. Most people avoid stress when they're quitting. You know, they pick a long weekend, board themselves up with a bunch of shiatty movies, and pointedly avoid stress of any sort. Yes, this is simply my experience. But when I say I ain't Mr. Self Discipline, I mean it. I must have done something right. My alcoholic dad used to test his willpower by going to the pub and ordering coffee. Didn't work out for him in the end but if it's working for you, well done. I'm not doing anything that much different, just not smoking, chewing gum and allowing myself more alcohol than usual. I am finding myself following smokers down the street and snorting up their noxious fumes, however. I look forward to the day when I no longer like the smell. In the meantime, people think I'm some weirdo mugger with a sinus problem. Alcohol has a great deal many more addictive factors than nicotine. I never had another craving after the first week, but I *did* have many, many dreams in which I had started smoking again, and awoke feeling very ashamed. I still enjoy maybe 2~3 cigars a year, though. No problems. Now, if I could just lay off the booze... gweilo8888: johne3819: If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you$6+ dollars (almost $10 here in Chi) for each cig. I found the exact opposite; it was easier to quit when I had a few cigs left in the pack. If I finished the pack, the lack of the ability to quickly obtain a cigarette made me feel nervous, and that nervous feeling manifested itself as going out, buying a pack, and smoking one. At least a few cigs in the pack left, and I quit cold turkey on the first try. And yes, I smoked regularly (half to one pack a day for multiple years beforehand.) I see the logic, but if I have one, I'm smoking it. Interesting how we each experience it differently. manitobamadman: steerforth: johne3819: Great method to quit (if you can do it). Step 1: Quit, duh. Step 2: If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you$6+ dollars (almost $10 here in Chi) for each cig. Step 3: Profit? My last pack of Peter Stuyvesant 25s cost$17.50 here in Australia.

$15.35 for a pack here in Canada Holy crap! It was about half that when I quit. " It's easy to quit smoking ... I've done it a thousand times." -Mark Twain manitobamadman: steerforth: johne3819: Great method to quit (if you can do it). Step 1: Quit, duh. Step 2: If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you$6+ dollars (almost $10 here in Chi) for each cig. Step 3: Profit? My last pack of Peter Stuyvesant 25s cost$17.50 here in Australia.

$15.35 for a pack here in Canada Wow, that is a lot of money. I started when they were just over$1 a pack.

/bait and switch!!
//LOL

Fano: aagrajag: steerforth: aagrajag: Quitting is almost *all* psychological. That's the challenge; not the nicotine addiction that clears after a few (murderous) days.

I quit after 8 years, and it was downright easy. And I'm no paragon of self-discipline and willpower. The trick is simple:

While your resolve and self-discipline are at their strongest, and you've made that hard decision, deliberately expose yourself to *everything* that makes you reach for a cigarette. Get drunk, fark like a rabbit, visit your mother-in-law, every stressor or trigger you can think of. That temporary, but all-important surge of willpower will get you through it.

And when you're done? Nothing short of WW3 will push you to start again.

Also, tasting food is nice.

That's your experience - everyone is different. Copious amounts of alcohol are helping me just fine.

Hah. Now, if only the same method worked with alcohol...

Seriously though, everyone's willpower wanes with time, so confronting your triggers while at your strongest just makes sense. It's also the very opposite of what most people do, so I imagine not too many have tried it. Most people avoid stress when they're quitting. You know, they pick a long weekend, board themselves up with a bunch of shiatty movies, and pointedly avoid stress of any sort.

Yes, this is simply my experience. But when I say I ain't Mr. Self Discipline, I mean it. I must have done something right.

Having tried the lozenge, gum, and the patch, I've found that straight up cold turkey, combined with a cellphone app that marks achievements plus Allan Carr philosophy seems to be working best for me. Once past the initial physical period that's over pretty quick, it appears to be a psychological long game.

That's the other thing I forgot to mention: cessation aids to alleviate physical cravings are not your friends. They help a tiny bit with the physical withdrawal, but that passes after only days. The psychological undermining however, does lasting damage to your likelihood of success.

Cold turkey. No aids. They are your enemies. Trust me.

sno man: manitobamadman: steerforth: johne3819: Great method to quit (if you can do it).

Step 1:

Quit, duh.

Step 2:

If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you $6+ dollars (almost$10 here in Chi) for each cig.

Step 3:

Profit?

My last pack of Peter Stuyvesant 25s cost $17.50 here in Australia.$15.35 for a pack here in Canada

Holy crap! It was about half that when I quit.

Half of which $6/$10/$15.35/$17.50)?

;)

manitobamadman: steerforth: johne3819: Great method to quit (if you can do it).

Step 1:

Quit, duh.

Step 2:

If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you $6+ dollars (almost$10 here in Chi) for each cig.

Step 3:

Profit?

My last pack of Peter Stuyvesant 25s cost $17.50 here in Australia.$15.35 for a pack here in Canada

Yipes. I quit when they were $7. manitobamadman: steerforth: johne3819: Great method to quit (if you can do it). Step 1: Quit, duh. Step 2: If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you$6+ dollars (almost $10 here in Chi) for each cig. Step 3: Profit? My last pack of Peter Stuyvesant 25s cost$17.50 here in Australia.

$15.35 for a pack here in Canada I've been off them a month and now have money in my bank account. One of the best reasons for giving up, but only in retrospect. It really was my health that finally forced the issue. The hacking cough caused by two packs a day is wot done it. aagrajag: Fano: aagrajag: steerforth: aagrajag: Quitting is almost *all* psychological. That's the challenge; not the nicotine addiction that clears after a few (murderous) days. I quit after 8 years, and it was downright easy. And I'm no paragon of self-discipline and willpower. The trick is simple: While your resolve and self-discipline are at their strongest, and you've made that hard decision, deliberately expose yourself to *everything* that makes you reach for a cigarette. Get drunk, fark like a rabbit, visit your mother-in-law, every stressor or trigger you can think of. That temporary, but all-important surge of willpower will get you through it. And when you're done? Nothing short of WW3 will push you to start again. Also, tasting food is nice. That's your experience - everyone is different. Copious amounts of alcohol are helping me just fine. Hah. Now, if only the same method worked with alcohol... Seriously though, everyone's willpower wanes with time, so confronting your triggers while at your strongest just makes sense. It's also the very opposite of what most people do, so I imagine not too many have tried it. Most people avoid stress when they're quitting. You know, they pick a long weekend, board themselves up with a bunch of shiatty movies, and pointedly avoid stress of any sort. Yes, this is simply my experience. But when I say I ain't Mr. Self Discipline, I mean it. I must have done something right. Having tried the lozenge, gum, and the patch, I've found that straight up cold turkey, combined with a cellphone app that marks achievements plus Allan Carr philosophy seems to be working best for me. Once past the initial physical period that's over pretty quick, it appears to be a psychological long game. That's the other thing I forgot to mention: cessation aids to alleviate physical cravings are not your friends. They help a tiny bit with the physical withdrawal, but that passes after only days. The psychological undermining however, does lasting d ... That's why I was interested in a drug that actually make you ill when you smoke. I need more than no carrot, I need a stick too! I always believed the 3rd something was the worst time, so I quit after starting school again, and I went to the gym every fracking day and used the patch the whole while hour 3 - I shouldn't have been around people, even with the patch on day 3 - sucked balls, even with the patch on week 3 - sucked monkey balls, and I was supposed to downgrade to the level 2 patch, but I stayed on the first level(highest) just because month 3 - not so bad, as I was really into being in the gym every day, plus summer semester finals were over and the students were coming back from break, so there were plenty of non-smoking women to ogle while in the gym. And you can not be in the gym and smell of smoke, it just doesn't work. /that was about 9 months ago //watched grandma die of lung cancer ///Mom is a 2-pack-a-day smoker, so she's next Ed Grubermann: Yes, yes. You're gonna live on the moon and not go to the hospital. Of course. Lying hypocrite. I'd send you myself if I could. We'll see who is stupid. The good thing, of course, is that none of your space fantasies will ever come true, and we'll keep living longer and longer right here. The more to ponder your silly ways, of course. johne3819: aagrajag: Fano: aagrajag: steerforth: aagrajag: Quitting is almost *all* psychological. That's the challenge; not the nicotine addiction that clears after a few (murderous) days. I quit after 8 years, and it was downright easy. And I'm no paragon of self-discipline and willpower. The trick is simple: While your resolve and self-discipline are at their strongest, and you've made that hard decision, deliberately expose yourself to *everything* that makes you reach for a cigarette. Get drunk, fark like a rabbit, visit your mother-in-law, every stressor or trigger you can think of. That temporary, but all-important surge of willpower will get you through it. And when you're done? Nothing short of WW3 will push you to start again. Also, tasting food is nice. That's your experience - everyone is different. Copious amounts of alcohol are helping me just fine. Hah. Now, if only the same method worked with alcohol... Seriously though, everyone's willpower wanes with time, so confronting your triggers while at your strongest just makes sense. It's also the very opposite of what most people do, so I imagine not too many have tried it. Most people avoid stress when they're quitting. You know, they pick a long weekend, board themselves up with a bunch of shiatty movies, and pointedly avoid stress of any sort. Yes, this is simply my experience. But when I say I ain't Mr. Self Discipline, I mean it. I must have done something right. Having tried the lozenge, gum, and the patch, I've found that straight up cold turkey, combined with a cellphone app that marks achievements plus Allan Carr philosophy seems to be working best for me. Once past the initial physical period that's over pretty quick, it appears to be a psychological long game. That's the other thing I forgot to mention: cessation aids to alleviate physical cravings are not your friends. They help a tiny bit with the physical withdrawal, but that passes after only days. The psychological undermining however, does lasting d ... That's why I was interested in a drug that actually make you ill when you smoke. I need more than no carrot, I need a stick too! For me the patch caused vivid dreams, and if I took it off I could smoke again, just without a rush. No stick there. Past the physical stage, my hardest part is mentally avoiding making deals with myself. This is exactly what Allen Carr has been telling everyone for years. Britney Spear's Speculum: From my experience: I get nothing from cigarettes. I got a head rush from hookah I get a biatchin' head rush from dip and nasal snuff. I haven't had any of the above in over a year and only used the above at most 3 times a month. The first is probably because what they call "cigarettes" these days are what our grandfathers would have called "girly smokes". What with the filter and the "extra mild tobacco blends". in fact, you know Marlboros? Cigarettes for surly, burly cowboys? Nah. By their own early marketing, Cigarettes for ladies. Quantum Apostrophe: Ed Grubermann: Yes, yes. You're gonna live on the moon and not go to the hospital. Of course. Lying hypocrite. I'd send you myself if I could. We'll see who is stupid. The good thing, of course, is that none of your space fantasies will ever come true, and we'll keep living longer and longer right here. The more to ponder your silly ways, of course. No matter how much you hate every technology not directly tied to life extension, you're still going to die like a dog in the street. This is an odd thread to bring it up though. I'll have to rtfa to see if they experimented on smoking cessation in astronauts to see why you went double regard in this thread. Maybe like a punch drunk boxer, it's all you know how to do now. aagrajag: manitobamadman: steerforth: johne3819: Great method to quit (if you can do it). Step 1: Quit, duh. Step 2: If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you$6+ dollars (almost $10 here in Chi) for each cig. Step 3: Profit? My last pack of Peter Stuyvesant 25s cost$17.50 here in Australia.

$15.35 for a pack here in Canada Yipes. I quit when they were$7.

17.50 AUD = 18.12 CAD and 18.38 USD.

Taxation works! Plus this:

After and before plain packaging legislation.

/While it didn't put me off smoking, I think it will put off some kids from starting up in the first place.

BuckTurgidson: Banacek: There is no better drug then nicotine.

Nicotine is just about the most lethal poison known to our species. Short-term-high-dose? Instant death. Long-term-low-dose? Tobacco addiction, cancer, and death. Bonus: your kids are more likely to be non-X-Men mutant failures.

Seriously, you'd be better off addicting yourself to cocaine.

Nicotine is as farking dangerous as caffeine.

It's all the other shiat involved with how we consume it that sucks.

It's Earth, nobody gets out alive
Find someone else to agitate.

sloshed_again: It's Earth, nobody gets out alive
Find someone else to agitate.

Inhale deeply. Hold it in, that's it.... let it seep into every crevice.... and just nestle there, filling you with the satisfying freedom-loving satisfaction of cancer.

Feel good? GOOD!

We want you to feel good.

But for some reason, we also feel obligated to pay a bunch of people to very expensively extend your life while you inevitably die of the f*cking CANCER we f*cking PRINTED on the candy wrappers of the CANCER sticks we for some goddamned reason we allowed THE EVILEST PEOPLE IN HUMAN HISTORY to sell to you.

steerforth: aagrajag: manitobamadman: steerforth: johne3819: Great method to quit (if you can do it).

Step 1:

Quit, duh.

Step 2:

If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you $6+ dollars (almost$10 here in Chi) for each cig.

Step 3:

Profit?

My last pack of Peter Stuyvesant 25s cost $17.50 here in Australia.$15.35 for a pack here in Canada

Yipes. I quit when they were $7. 17.50 AUD = 18.12 CAD and 18.38 USD. Taxation works! Plus this: [i1126.photobucket.com image 850x508] After and before plain packaging legislation. /While it didn't put me off smoking, I think it will put off some kids from starting up in the first place. Even if it helps like 10%, it's better than not. Gyrfalcon: That sounds like the worst study ever done. The researchers are less sure why stress levels rose in those who failed to quit. But it may be that their failure - and thoughts of the damage their habit was doing to their health - made them worry more. This increase in stress levels was particularly high in those with depression and other psychiatric problems and the researchers said doctors should be aware of this. If you have a lot of people in your study with psychiatric problems, then OF COURSE they're going to have high stress levels--before, during and after attempting to quit--and OF COURSE it's going to be unclear what caused the change. And it seems pretty clear that if one of the reasons they were trying to quit is fear for their health, then knowing they failed is going to make things worse. These guys are pretty bad researchers. In a sizable sample, unless for some weird reason researchers make sure to only test people with no psychiatric problems (and "psychiatric problems" is a very broad umbrella -- it doesn't mean "all raving loonies" -- you might be amazed how many of your friends and acquaintances are treated for this or that), there will be people with psychiatric problems of some sort or another. They noted who those were, and noted to what extent those ones had a tendency to react somewhat differently than the others. Then you go on to restate their own speculation, when you mentioned feeling failure being a possible stressor. Who do you think just suggested that? The Daily Mail author on her own? She was paraphrasing them, obviously. "These guys are pretty bad researchers." Is that indeed your professional opinion, based on a Daily Mail article? Someone alert the NHS, this info needs to get out. Quantum Apostrophe: Ed Grubermann: Yes, yes. You're gonna live on the moon and not go to the hospital. Of course. Lying hypocrite. I'd send you myself if I could. We'll see who is stupid. The good thing, of course, is that none of your space fantasies will ever come true, and we'll keep living longer and longer right here. The more to ponder your silly ways, of course. Calm down, troll. Your spittle is ruining your monitor. steerforth: After and before plain packaging legislation. /While it didn't put me off smoking, I think it will put off some kids from starting up in the first place. Know why liquor manufacturers aren't required to wrap their bottles in pictures of DUI tickets, cirrhosed livers, and beer bellies? Cause legislators like drinking... BuckTurgidson: We want you to feel good. I hope you feel good and bietchie and die in a horrible crash. Ishidan: steerforth: After and before plain packaging legislation. /While it didn't put me off smoking, I think it will put off some kids from starting up in the first place. Know why liquor manufacturers aren't required to wrap their bottles in pictures of DUI tickets, cirrhosed livers, and beer bellies? Cause legislators like drinking... That's coming next. Australia is discussing putting warning labels on booze bottles. There are already labels on boxed wine reminding drinkers of the actual, as opposed to perceived, amount in a standard drink. Next up, the true evils: food companies. twistofsin: BuckTurgidson: Banacek: There is no better drug then nicotine. Nicotine is just about the most lethal poison known to our species. Short-term-high-dose? Instant death. Long-term-low-dose? Tobacco addiction, cancer, and death. Bonus: your kids are more likely to be non-X-Men mutant failures. Seriously, you'd be better off addicting yourself to cocaine. Nicotine is as farking dangerous as caffeine. It's all the other shiat involved with how we consume it that sucks. As someone who gave up smoking years ago, and has been on nicotine gum ever since, I concur. It's bad for the heart if you overdo it but so is Monster, and has such minimal side effects otherwise I never had a reason to try quitting. Expense maybe but, eh, it's no worse than going to starbucks daily. I'd likely have smacked a few hundred coworkers without some form of stress relief. Maybe the study's correct and it's a placebo, but an effective one Gyrfalcon: That sounds like the worst study ever done. The researchers are less sure why stress levels rose in those who failed to quit. But it may be that their failure - and thoughts of the damage their habit was doing to their health - made them worry more. This increase in stress levels was particularly high in those with depression and other psychiatric problems and the researchers said doctors should be aware of this. If you have a lot of people in your study with psychiatric problems, then OF COURSE they're going to have high stress levels--before, during and after attempting to quit--and OF COURSE it's going to be unclear what caused the change. And it seems pretty clear that if one of the reasons they were trying to quit is fear for their health, then knowing they failed is going to make things worse. These guys are pretty bad researchers. I am a psychology major, and their comments about those with depression and psychiatric disorders is unequivocal proof that they are a bunch of nimrods. Why? Because nicotine helps tremendously with said disorders. It all has to do with brain chemistry. For whatever reason nicotine effects people with psychological disorders differently than other people. It is a common theme amongst disorders. As a matter of fact whether or not a person smokes and what it does for theme is a high indicator that something is knocking a little differently in their heads. Everything from schizophrenia to ADHD is affected by nicotine. Doesn't mean you're nuts. It just means that the benefits are more than people realize. So, yeah, if they try and quit a drug that helps them unfathomably there is going to be a greater buildup of stress and an increase in negative psychological symptoms if they quit. I could write an entire paper about this, but I'm not going to bore you guys. I will admit that I do feel a lot better if I go without nicotine. The tingling in my head, the tiredness, and the irritability are there, but if I can deal with that the entire three days it takes to get out of my system I am happier. Thing is, it isn't always that simple. It doesn't make stressful situations go away. I only use snus (stopped smoking for months now, and I can honestly say if I never smoke another cigarette I will not miss it), and I cannot imagine how difficult it would be for a heavy nicotine user. Nicotine itself is a very useful drug. It's the tobacco plant that kills people. The smoking aspect. Nicotine itself is harmless except for the insanely high addiction rate that creeps up on you. ParagonComplex: I am a psychology major, and their comments about those with depression and psychiatric disorders is unequivocal proof that they are a bunch of nimrods. Why? Because nicotine helps tremendously with said disorders. It all has to do with brain chemistry. For whatever reason nicotine effects people with psychological disorders differently than other people. It is a common theme amongst disorders. As a matter of fact whether or not a person smokes and what it does for theme is a high indicator that something is knocking a little differently in their heads. Everything from schizophrenia to ADHD is affected by nicotine. Doesn't mean you're nuts. It just means that the benefits are more than people realize. Is that so? I was diagnosed BPD (treated with a lithium variant ~5 years ago) Now I'm on nothing but the occasional nicotine, no symptoms of anything. Self-medicated I suppose? Warrener: I've also never understood the sentiment of "tasting food" again that I've heard from so many people. Personally, I tasted food as well when I smoked a pack+ per day as I do now. Same here. I never noticed a difference in the taste of food. Relatively Obscure: Warrener: I've also never understood the sentiment of "tasting food" again that I've heard from so many people. Personally, I tasted food as well when I smoked a pack+ per day as I do now. Same here. I never noticed a difference in the taste of food. Did anyone ever do a study on whether smokers really are better tippers or not? If it's an acquired habit, I still don't worry about percentages and give a nice amount to any server that does their job with a bit of effort For anyone that might care, Bull Smoke e-cigs were finally my e-cig breakthrough to quitting actual smoking ( after trying three other weak-sauce e-cigs including Blues). Their 24mg Refined Blend cartridges kick like a mule shot out of a bazooka. Three tokes off that badboy and the LAST thing you'll want is a real cigarette. entitygm: Relatively Obscure: Warrener: I've also never understood the sentiment of "tasting food" again that I've heard from so many people. Personally, I tasted food as well when I smoked a pack+ per day as I do now. Same here. I never noticed a difference in the taste of food. Did anyone ever do a study on whether smokers really are better tippers or not? If it's an acquired habit, I still don't worry about percentages and give a nice amount to any server that does their job with a bit of effort I don't know. I didn't even know that was a thing. I generally tip well, for not having a ton of money. PlatypusPuke: For anyone that might care, Bull Smoke e-cigs were finally my e-cig breakthrough to quitting actual smoking ( after trying three other weak-sauce e-cigs including Blues). I tried Blus. They looked neat. They sucked ass. entitygm: ParagonComplex: I am a psychology major, and their comments about those with depression and psychiatric disorders is unequivocal proof that they are a bunch of nimrods. Why? Because nicotine helps tremendously with said disorders. It all has to do with brain chemistry. For whatever reason nicotine effects people with psychological disorders differently than other people. It is a common theme amongst disorders. As a matter of fact whether or not a person smokes and what it does for theme is a high indicator that something is knocking a little differently in their heads. Everything from schizophrenia to ADHD is affected by nicotine. Doesn't mean you're nuts. It just means that the benefits are more than people realize. Is that so? I was diagnosed BPD (treated with a lithium variant ~5 years ago) Now I'm on nothing but the occasional nicotine, no symptoms of anything. Self-medicated I suppose? Exactly. It is a form of self-medication. It really is that powerful of a drug for those with psychological disorders. Also, for those that want to be prescribed a drug to quit you can ask your doctor for Wellbutrin. It effects the same receptors that nicotine does. So much, in fact, that if you try smoking while on Wellbutrin you will get zero effect. The problem arises when you get off the drug, because there is nothing there to react with those receptors. Wellbutrin works well for those with psychological disorders because of how it effects the same receptors as nicotine does. It truly is a common theme in psychological disorders. /Subby Relatively Obscure: PlatypusPuke: For anyone that might care, Bull Smoke e-cigs were finally my e-cig breakthrough to quitting actual smoking ( after trying three other weak-sauce e-cigs including Blues). I tried Blus. They looked neat. They sucked ass. I've been happy with GreenSmartLiving ecigarettes. Three months and counting now. I still have the occasional real cigarette, but I've gone from a pack a day to a pack a week (at most). OgreMagi: Relatively Obscure: PlatypusPuke: For anyone that might care, Bull Smoke e-cigs were finally my e-cig breakthrough to quitting actual smoking ( after trying three other weak-sauce e-cigs including Blues). I tried Blus. They looked neat. They sucked ass. I've been happy with GreenSmartLiving ecigarettes. Three months and counting now. I still have the occasional real cigarette, but I've gone from a pack a day to a pack a week (at most). I have this big ol' eGo-T I keep around, about cigar sized, which puts out quite a potent amount of vapor. Before that, a 510 or whatever. Don't really need either, now, though I still enjoy nicotine from time to time. Haven't smoked tobacco in over a year (well, one or two toward the beginning). Relatively Obscure: OgreMagi: Relatively Obscure: PlatypusPuke: For anyone that might care, Bull Smoke e-cigs were finally my e-cig breakthrough to quitting actual smoking ( after trying three other weak-sauce e-cigs including Blues). I tried Blus. They looked neat. They sucked ass. I've been happy with GreenSmartLiving ecigarettes. Three months and counting now. I still have the occasional real cigarette, but I've gone from a pack a day to a pack a week (at most). I have this big ol' eGo-T I keep around, about cigar sized, which puts out quite a potent amount of vapor. Before that, a 510 or whatever. Don't really need either, now, though I still enjoy nicotine from time to time. Haven't smoked tobacco in over a year (well, one or two toward the beginning). Oh, to add before I head home, I was at about a pack and a half per day before that. twistofsin: Nicotine is as many times more farking dangerous as caffeine. Seriously, discover cocaine instead. /No, don't do cocaine either. Jesus. Even though I'm in the process of quitting, I really hate the radical anti-smokers. One lady said to me (as I stood on the street smoking), "Smoking is bad for you, and second hand smoke is bad for me." I gave her a dirty look and said, "Me not smoking is downright dangerous for you." Another time some biatch sent her little girl up to me to tell say, "your smoking is bad for me!" So I told her (loud enough for the biatch mom to hear), "annoying complete strangers is also bad for you, yet that didn't stop you, did it?" The girl's mom gave me the stink eye for that. ParagonComplex: entitygm: ParagonComplex: I am a psychology major, and their comments about those with depression and psychiatric disorders is unequivocal proof that they are a bunch of nimrods. Why? Because nicotine helps tremendously with said disorders. It all has to do with brain chemistry. For whatever reason nicotine effects people with psychological disorders differently than other people. It is a common theme amongst disorders. As a matter of fact whether or not a person smokes and what it does for theme is a high indicator that something is knocking a little differently in their heads. Everything from schizophrenia to ADHD is affected by nicotine. Doesn't mean you're nuts. It just means that the benefits are more than people realize. Is that so? I was diagnosed BPD (treated with a lithium variant ~5 years ago) Now I'm on nothing but the occasional nicotine, no symptoms of anything. Self-medicated I suppose? Exactly. It is a form of self-medication. It really is that powerful of a drug for those with psychological disorders. Also, for those that want to be prescribed a drug to quit you can ask your doctor for Wellbutrin. It effects the same receptors that nicotine does. So much, in fact, that if you try smoking while on Wellbutrin you will get zero effect. The problem arises when you get off the drug, because there is nothing there to react with those receptors. Wellbutrin works well for those with psychological disorders because of how it effects the same receptors as nicotine does. It truly is a common theme in psychological disorders. /Subby Wellbutrin didn't work for shiat. Chantix works. My only problem is alcohol. Alcohol inevitably leads to smoking which leads to buying a pack which leads to smoking a cigarette the next morning. OgreMagi: Even though I'm in the process of quitting, I really hate the radical anti-smokers. One lady said to me (as I stood on the street smoking), "Smoking is bad for you, and second hand smoke is bad for me." I gave her a dirty look and said, "Me not smoking is downright dangerous for you." Another time some biatch sent her little girl up to me to tell say, "your smoking is bad for me!" So I told her (loud enough for the biatch mom to hear), "annoying complete strangers is also bad for you, yet that didn't stop you, did it?" The girl's mom gave me the stink eye for that. I get that from time to time too. I cup my cigarette when in public fearing ninja cigarette extinguishers. Like I care about stress relief ! W\hat is important is I look cool DNRTFA, but if you've never smoked before, yeah, they don't relieve stress. But if you're already addicted, like me, they relieve the stress of not having nicotine in your system. James F. Campbell: Banacek: There is no better drug then nicotine. 10/10. Someone told me that Nicotine is what heroin wants to be when it grows up. Don't know if that's true, but seeing people (including me) fighting Nicotine withdrawal made me think that maybe it was. tinfoil-hat maggie: Fano: Gulliver: Nicotine relieves the stress of nicotine withdrawal. That is all. ...and done here. /trying to quit //knows it is do or do not Good Luck to yo I be right there with you after I finish my last two packs. /I've done it before //I started back because of high stress and yea it helped. /I hope I never have to quit again after this time. Best of luck, but if you do have to quit again most can tell you that it's something that actually takes a bit of practice. Eight weeks off myself. /quitting's easy. I've done it hundreds of times.-twain Warrener: ordinarysteve: I'm on day 4 of not smoking and the best part of quitting is that if you are an asshole and tell people you are trying to quit, than they forgive you. Nah, the best part is 5+years later when you can tell people "Yeah, been there. Best of luck to you..." /I hope. //Best of luck to you. ///These days the only time I want a cigarette is when I hear an anti-smoking ad. Seriously. I'm almost 100 percent certain that they make those anti smoking ads for that purpose. Anyways, nicotine is definitely an anti anxiety medicine. It helped me through a lot of stressful social situations in college. Of course, now that I'm addicted, it eases the stress of not smoking. Gulliver: Nicotine relieves the stress of nicotine withdrawal. That is all. I started smoking as a teenager (as most all smokers did). Am now 38 and seriously hooked on it. Every time I try to quit I want to punch someone, anyone, in the face. I would even break my "no beating women" rule. It's a nasty habit to break, and the only solution is to reintroduce it or just let the detox run it's course. If I ever have a child, I will nearly maim him or her if I catch them smoking. It's a lifelong problem that can kill you and costs you more money than you think. To Fark smokers: tally up the years you've smoked, the spikes in prices, and tell me about the Porsche you might have had. entitygm: Relatively Obscure: Warrener: I've also never understood the sentiment of "tasting food" again that I've heard from so many people. Personally, I tasted food as well when I smoked a pack+ per day as I do now. Same here. I never noticed a difference in the taste of food. Did anyone ever do a study on whether smokers really are better tippers or not? If it's an acquired habit, I still don't worry about percentages and give a nice amount to any server that does their job with a bit of effort Smokers also tend to be drinkers. They're in a better mood when the check comes. That's the 'correlation,' and why servers prefer to work in the few places where smoking is allowed. Also, the check is higher than some blue-hair eating a dinner-sized salad and having iced tea. The self-deception in this thread is amazing. ITT: weak-willed people attempting to justify their disgusting habits. Smokers are nasty. Knock it off, no body wants to be around your noxious odor or wants to deal with the second hand smoke. And,you don't look cool or whatever, you just look like a selfish douche who wants to inconvenience everyone around them. There are other ways to give yourself cancer that do not assault the olfactory senses of those around you. the_rhino: ITT: weak-willed people attempting to justify their disgusting habits. Smokers are nasty. Knock it off, no body wants to be around your noxious odor or wants to deal with the second hand smoke. And,you don't look cool or whatever, you just look like a selfish douche who wants to inconvenience everyone around them. There are other ways to give yourself cancer that do not assault the olfactory senses of those around you. How does it feel to be a whiny three year old? the_rhino: ITT: weak-willed people attempting to justify their disgusting habits. Smokers are nasty. Knock it off, no body wants to be around your noxious odor or wants to deal with the second hand smoke. And,you don't look cool or whatever, you just look like a selfish douche who wants to inconvenience everyone around them. There are other ways to give yourself cancer that do not assault the olfactory senses of those around you. Lemme guess - you have uncontrollable flatulence and hence are irrationally angry at other smelly people. Amirite? Shakin_Haitian: the_rhino: ITT: weak-willed people attempting to justify their disgusting habits. Smokers are nasty. Knock it off, no body wants to be around your noxious odor or wants to deal with the second hand smoke. And,you don't look cool or whatever, you just look like a selfish douche who wants to inconvenience everyone around them. There are other ways to give yourself cancer that do not assault the olfactory senses of those around you. How does it feel to be a whiny three year old? No dude, you don't get it, smokers are terrible people worse than Hitler and Jews and rapists all rolled in to one. They're social paraiahs we get to moke and legislate against because of choice, how awesome is that!? And we can be prelitterate farkbags and have no valid opinions or content to spew, but still do it, because no one cares, these guys are EVIL!! never took up with cigs , thank god. twice a month cigar and some weed. 2 of my best buds are smokers, i have cut down on hanging out b/c of the stench and annoyance of the smoke. the thought of drinking and watching football and laughing is pleasant but in the last few years the thought of inhaling noxious fumes that are not mine supercedes all else. smokers are stinky and annoying. /i need new friends. i quit cigarettes like 3 months ago and i STILL have a cough BuckTurgidson: twistofsin: Nicotine is as many times more farking dangerous as caffeine. Seriously, discover cocaine instead. /No, don't do cocaine either. Jesus. why not drink coca tea I smoked a pack and a half daily of Marlboro Red for about five years (first four while in college). Woke up, smoked, ate breakfast, smoked, walked to class (while smoking), finished class (smoked), walked to apartment (while smoking), etc. etc. I quit cold turkey, no patch,no inhaler. Instead, I just bought a crate of plums. Every time I needed a cigarette, I ate a plum. I chose plums because the tartness can be a bit jarring after you've had four already that day. The first week was awful, but after that you're done as long as you can avoid bumming a cigarette off someone else. In addition to the plums, I ate tons as the nicotine is a hunger suppressor. Be prepared to gain 20 pounds the month after you quit. Since then, I have had the odd cigarette about twice a year at a party with friends who smoke, but I've never felt the urge to buy a pack. lordjupiter: The self-deception in this thread is amazing. And pretty much cuts across the entire spectrum of opinion on the matter, too. free_waffles: I smoked a pack and a half daily of Marlboro Red for about five years (first four while in college). Woke up, smoked, ate breakfast, smoked, walked to class (while smoking), finished class (smoked), walked to apartment (while smoking), etc. etc. I quit cold turkey, no patch,no inhaler. Instead, I just bought a crate of plums. Every time I needed a cigarette, I ate a plum. I chose plums because the tartness can be a bit jarring after you've had four already that day. The first week was awful, but after that you're done as long as you can avoid bumming a cigarette off someone else. In addition to the plums, I ate tons as the nicotine is a hunger suppressor. Be prepared to gain 20 pounds the month after you quit. Since then, I have had the odd cigarette about twice a year at a party with friends who smoke, but I've never felt the urge to buy a pack. I'm glad I wasn't your plumber or janitor that week. no shirt no shoes: I've been using an e-cig for just over a year now. Not going to hawk a particular brand but mine is great. A good place for info is e-cigarette forum dot com - it's not sponsored by any company and it is all user submitted info and reviews. ECF FTW! /Almost a year now Smoking relieves the stress of withdrawal that you volunteered for by smoking to begin with. The perfect Idiot Tax. Banacek: I smoked a pack a day for ten years. So very glad that I finally quit. That was years ago. That said, this report is bullshiat. There is no better drug then nicotine. You want to feel relaxed? It will help you. You want to feel amped? It will help you. Amazing drug. People who deny it's power are liars. I've smoked cigars for the last 15 years, but recently tried American Spirit cigarettes (without addictive additives). Then found a couple of places where machines roll a carton for you while you wait for$28 out the door. Also additive-free. Lots cheaper than the $2 cigars I smoke. My wife was on Serequel for almost a year (Doc since switched her to Welbutrin) and gained 80 farking pounds. (Part of that, of course, is we sit on our asses in the camper a lot.) She recently started smoking cigarettes, and is losing wait and is calmer. Yes, the nicotine helps, but she thinks that the "shared ritual" also has a lot to do with it. I agree. Ritual is a very powerful thing. free_waffles: I smoked a pack and a half daily of Marlboro Red for about five years (first four while in college). Woke up, smoked, ate breakfast, smoked, walked to class (while smoking), finished class (smoked), walked to apartment (while smoking), etc. etc. I quit cold turkey, no patch,no inhaler. Instead, I just bought a crate of plums. Every time I needed a cigarette, I ate a plum. I chose plums because the tartness can be a bit jarring after you've had four already that day. The first week was awful, but after that you're done as long as you can avoid bumming a cigarette off someone else. In addition to the plums, I ate tons as the nicotine is a hunger suppressor. Be prepared to gain 20 pounds the month after you quit. Since then, I have had the odd cigarette about twice a year at a party with friends who smoke, but I've never felt the urge to buy a pack. Ymmv but bumming smokes while drinking eventually got me hooked again. Took about 5 years. Not mine, but I want one. When I started smoking, cigarettes cost$0.40 a pack. I have quit several times over the course of 36 years. I have also tried just about every drug you could possibly become addicted to, and by tried, I mean used. Never a junkie, but only because I could see where continued use would take me; I just walked away from them. But those damn cigarettes are a tough habit to break. Even after having quit for months, the urge to smoke never went away. However, when I am "off" smokes for a while, the cravings become less and less frequent (although still just as intense), and I have experienced better breathing and generally a better attitude. But I'll be damned if smoking doesn't show up in my dreams...I can taste it and so far, I have always found an excuse to start again. One of these days...

/Almost never get sick. Used to joke that I killed all pathogens with alcohol and nicotine
//One of these days I'll stop for good
///Kudos to those who have quit

Hummm.......I do have a dog in this fight, so I'll be sitting over here.

I wonder how much of the stress is due to the fact that so many people treat smokers like something you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe.

Also, smoking has a rather strong correlation with some types of mental illness--schizophrenia and bipolar disorder in particular, IIRC. Any study on "stress" that doesn't exclude, or otherwise account for, people with diagnosable levels and types of mental illness is going to be flawed.

May as well add my CSB:

I started smoking when I was ten. Back then, local friendly convenience store clerks had no qualms about selling a pack to a kid ("It's for my mom!") and at 25c a pack, the 1/2 mile walk to the store would usually yield the three discarded pop bottles needed to cover the cost.

By the time I was forty I'd been smoking for thirty years, and was smoking four packs a day, every day. Smoking eighty cigs a day means I ALWAYS had one lit. I smoked during meals. I smoked in the shower. I woke up in the middle of the night to have a few cigs before going back to sleep. Smoked DURING sex.I ALWAYS had at least one, sometimes two, cigs lit... and EVERYTHING was a trigger.

In '96 cig prices were just beginning to really get outrageous; cartons were almost up to $20. I could not walk up a flight of stairs without stopping to rest, but what bothered me more than that was that I could no longer hold in a hit of weed. I was going to have to quit smoking something I really enjoyed because of smoking something that I had come to resent and detest. I tried everything to quit: The patch, gum, hypnosis, cinnamon sticks, accupuncture... finally Welbutrin, and it worked like magic for me. The morning of my quit date (my 40th birthday) I woke up sarcastically thinking 'Yeah, right; SURE I'm not going to smoke a cig today.' - but it worked like turning off a switch in my brain. Stupidly, I flirted with smoking on and off for the next coupla years. I never went back to smoking regularly, but once or twice a month I'd bum one off a friend... finally quit that altogether. As my sense of smell slowly returned, I discovered that the world does NOT smell pretty. That was a huge disappointment, as I had been looking forward to finding out what food actually tastes like - remember, I started at ten years old. I'd never even had a beer or barely a burger or slice of pizza without a cig to go along with it. I put on forty pounds, finally decided that being fat sucked and got my ass to a gym. Lost the weight, got healthy through weights and walking many many miles. towards the end of my forties I was in the best shape of my life. It's been fifteen years now; age is slowly deteriorating my body but I'm still in much better shape than I'd have been if I hadn't quit. I've saved a shiat-ton of money and on most days, the lungs function pretty darned well. Right now I'm fighting the flu (and it feels like I'm losing), but for the most part, quitting was the best thing that ever happened to me. Here's hoping that anyone who wants to quit can do so as successfully as I did... best of luck to y'all. steerforth: aagrajag: manitobamadman: steerforth: johne3819: Great method to quit (if you can do it). Step 1: Quit, duh. Step 2: If you have the craving that makes you cave and buy a pack, as soon as you light up, toss the rest of the pack. It will cost you$6+ dollars (almost $10 here in Chi) for each cig. Step 3: Profit? My last pack of Peter Stuyvesant 25s cost$17.50 here in Australia.

$15.35 for a pack here in Canada Yipes. I quit when they were$7.

17.50 AUD = 18.12 CAD and 18.38 USD.

Taxation works! Plus this:

[i1126.photobucket.com image 850x508]

After and before plain packaging legislation.

/While it didn't put me off smoking, I think it will put off some kids from starting up in the first place.

I have a sinking feeling that will get more kids to say AWESOME I HAVE TO TRY THAT STUFF! I guess marketers forget who the primary market of gory summer movies is.

6 weeks no smoking for me.

I went cold-turkey, but if I hadn't, one of the ways to get a cig to taste bad (as in, what the hell is wrong with my mouth, not the normal flavor) is to suck on a zinc losenge (like cold-eaze or zycam). It makes all food taste bad, but it REALLY makes cigs taste strange.  Like your mouth is coated with something and the smoke can't get in.  It's jarring.

I don't miss it unless I see people smoking on television.  Being around cigarette smokers actually helps, because now that I'm out of the smell, the smell makes me crazy.  I just think it's gross.  So that reduces cravings.  But seeing it on TV, when I can't smell it... I'm not sure what I'm going to do when Mad Men comes back on TV.  Stock up on carrot sticks, I guess.

One thing that I'm going to start doing is put the money I would have spent on cigs into a jar to see how much money I'm saving.  My partner and I did the math (he quit the same time I did) and it should be $1500 by the end of the year. That's a decent vacation. Oh, and also, I was a heinous biatch for the first week. I haven' really gained weight, but I have absolutely stopped losing weight. However, I was also drinking a lot to compensate. No drinking is next on the list, and honestly I would rather drink than smoke. So I'm not looking forward to the next few days / weeks This might be hard to believe but it really happened. I was a smoker for over 30 yrs. I LOVED smoking and had absolutely no desire to quit. I had heard about the variety of flavors of e-cig liquid (joose). Everything from fruits to coffees to desserts and more. I thought it would be fun to play with some of the flavors so I did a little research on ECF- Elecrtonic Cigarette Forum Link. I got my first e-cig and a variety of jooses online. That was Feb 18 2012. I haven't had a cigarette since. I wasn't trying to quit. I just kinda happened. You can adjust the amount of nicotine you want as well as the strength of flavor. After playing around with different hardware and different flavors and a couple of hundred bucks, I have found my favorites. I use Smokeless Image Link for my hardware and Kick Bass Vapor Link for my liquids. I would highly recommend these two for anyone interested in trying e-cigs out. Best thing I ever did! /vaping KBV's Circus Freak (cotton candy) //yum cindyincocoa: This might be hard to believe but it really happened. I was a smoker for over 30 yrs. I LOVED smoking and had absolutely no desire to quit. I had heard about the variety of flavors of e-cig liquid (joose). Everything from fruits to coffees to desserts and more. I thought it would be fun to play with some of the flavors so I did a little research on ECF- Elecrtonic Cigarette Forum Link. I got my first e-cig and a variety of jooses online. That was Feb 18 2012. I haven't had a cigarette since. I wasn't trying to quit. I just kinda happened. You can adjust the amount of nicotine you want as well as the strength of flavor. After playing around with different hardware and different flavors and a couple of hundred bucks, I have found my favorites. I use Smokeless Image Link for my hardware and Kick Bass Vapor Link for my liquids. I would highly recommend these two for anyone interested in trying e-cigs out. Best thing I ever did! /vaping KBV's Circus Freak (cotton candy) //yum How long do those cartridges last in terms of a pack of cigs? I guess it might be person dependent, but at least in your experience. sprgrss: ParagonComplex: entitygm: ParagonComplex: I am a psychology major, and their comments about those with depression and psychiatric disorders is unequivocal proof that they are a bunch of nimrods. Why? Because nicotine helps tremendously with said disorders. It all has to do with brain chemistry. For whatever reason nicotine effects people with psychological disorders differently than other people. It is a common theme amongst disorders. As a matter of fact whether or not a person smokes and what it does for theme is a high indicator that something is knocking a little differently in their heads. Everything from schizophrenia to ADHD is affected by nicotine. Doesn't mean you're nuts. It just means that the benefits are more than people realize. Is that so? I was diagnosed BPD (treated with a lithium variant ~5 years ago) Now I'm on nothing but the occasional nicotine, no symptoms of anything. Self-medicated I suppose? Exactly. It is a form of self-medication. It really is that powerful of a drug for those with psychological disorders. Also, for those that want to be prescribed a drug to quit you can ask your doctor for Wellbutrin. It effects the same receptors that nicotine does. So much, in fact, that if you try smoking while on Wellbutrin you will get zero effect. The problem arises when you get off the drug, because there is nothing there to react with those receptors. Wellbutrin works well for those with psychological disorders because of how it effects the same receptors as nicotine does. It truly is a common theme in psychological disorders. /Subby Wellbutrin didn't work for shiat. Chantix works. My only problem is alcohol. Alcohol inevitably leads to smoking which leads to buying a pack which leads to smoking a cigarette the next morning. It probably depends on how heavily you smoked. I was relatively light (half a pack or less a day) so it worked better for me. Granted I didn't take it to stop smoking. It was just a by-product. You probably just needed a higher dosage. That other stuff you listed seems way too dangerous to me. I am on the ecig bandwagon as well. Started in June of 2011, and have a had a normal cig now and again. But always feel sick after the fact. Nothing compares to the ecig flavor I use. Bavarian cream. I always smell like vanilla, and I do not crave sweets. Ego-T with the ego-c upgrade pass through battery. Probably spend around$15 bucks every month for a new atomizer, and $44 every 2.5 months for a huge ass bottle of liquid. Was spending upwards of$250 a month on normal cigs.

ElWampa: Ego-T with the ego-c upgrade pass through battery. Probably spend around $15 bucks every month for a new atomizer, and$44 every 2.5 months for a huge ass bottle of liquid.

If you don't already, get the larger 900mAh batteries or pass-through batteries and the low resistance atomizers.  Sooooo much better.

abominare: cindyincocoa: This might be hard to believe but it really happened. I was a smoker for over 30 yrs. I LOVED smoking and had absolutely no desire to quit. I had heard about the variety of flavors of e-cig liquid (joose). Everything from fruits to coffees to desserts and more. I thought it would be fun to play with some of the flavors so I did a little research on ECF- Elecrtonic Cigarette Forum Link. I got my first e-cig and a variety of jooses online. That was Feb 18 2012. I haven't had a cigarette since. I wasn't trying to quit. I just kinda happened. You can adjust the amount of nicotine you want as well as the strength of flavor. After playing around with different hardware and different flavors and a couple of hundred bucks, I have found my favorites. I use Smokeless Image Link for my hardware and Kick Bass Vapor Link for my liquids. I would highly recommend these two for anyone interested in trying e-cigs out.

Best thing I ever did!

/vaping KBV's Circus Freak (cotton candy)

//yum

How long do those cartridges last in terms of a pack of cigs?

I guess it might be person dependent, but at least in your experience.

Personally I go through @ 2 ml a day using a tank. I'm not really sure how much the pre-filled carts hold. I also find that I vape differently than I smoked. I can take just a hit or 2 and forget about it or vape right through an entire movie. YMMV.

First fact to look for when trying to determine whether or not any article written for The Daily Mail is asinine and not dependable: it was written for The Daily Mail.

cindyincocoa: This might be hard to believe but it really happened. I was a smoker for over 30 yrs. I LOVED smoking and had absolutely no desire to quit. I had heard about the variety of flavors of e-cig liquid (joose). Everything from fruits to coffees to desserts and more. I thought it would be fun to play with some of the flavors so I did a little research on ECF- Elecrtonic Cigarette Forum Link. I got my first e-cig and a variety of jooses online. That was Feb 18 2012. I haven't had a cigarette since. I wasn't trying to quit. I just kinda happened. You can adjust the amount of nicotine you want as well as the strength of flavor. After playing around with different hardware and different flavors and a couple of hundred bucks, I have found my favorites. I use Smokeless Image Link for my hardware and Kick Bass Vapor Link for my liquids. I would highly recommend these two for anyone interested in trying e-cigs out.

Best thing I ever did!

/vaping KBV's Circus Freak (cotton candy)

//yum

My story is very similar. Smoked heavy for 30+ years, and didn't think I could quit. A friend started vaping and was getting good results, so I figured "what the hell, I'll give it a shot". I didn't really expect it to work, but it did. Now I haven't had a cig for about 15 months, and I'm not at all tempted. I vape quite a bit - but I've gradually cut my nicotine level down. Most places, they sell juice is multiples of 6 mg, or you can get the juice with no nic at all. I started at 30mg. Now I'm buying juice in 6mg level, and more juice with no nic, and mixing it half and half, so I'm at roughly 3mg. Barely any nic at all. I've been doing that for a couple of months now, and before long, I'm going to try moving to 0 nicotine. If I can do that, I'll try putting the whole thing aside.

Even if I vape the rest of my life, I'm still ahead. No cig smell, much healthier, much cheaper, and I can vape many places where I would not be allowed to smoke,.

Like several here, I learned about vaping at ECF.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum

I was under the impression that nicotine was an easy way to reduce stress immediately. But the price of using it was that you would have more stress in general unless, of course, you smoked some more.

So in general a smoker probably had less stress than most during and shorty after smoking, but otherwise had a bit more than general and a lot more if they went x time without a puff.

/And of course if you die early, your life will really have had less stress overall.

TheMysteriousStranger: I was under the impression that nicotine was an easy way to reduce stress immediately. But the price of using it was that you would have more stress in general unless, of course, you smoked some more.

So in general a smoker probably had less stress than most during and shorty after smoking, but otherwise had a bit more than general and a lot more if they went x time without a puff.

/And of course if you die early, your life will really have had less stress overall.

TheMysteriousStranger: I was under the impression that nicotine was an easy way to reduce stress immediately. But the price of using it was that you would have more stress in general unless, of course, you smoked some more.

So in general a smoker probably had less stress than most during and shorty after smoking, but otherwise had a bit more than general and a lot more if they went x time without a puff.

/And of course if you die early, your life will really have had less stress overall.

Do tell... or is "Nuh-uh!" all you have?

Isildur: TheMysteriousStranger: I was under the impression that nicotine was an easy way to reduce stress immediately. But the price of using it was that you would have more stress in general unless, of course, you smoked some more.

So in general a smoker probably had less stress than most during and shorty after smoking, but otherwise had a bit more than general and a lot more if they went x time without a puff.

/And of course if you die early, your life will really have had less stress overall.

Do tell... or is "Nuh-uh!" all you have?

Ctrl+f smackledorf.

Or the article.
Or do research.
Or at least BE a smoker and have personal experience.

You say all I have is a "nuh uh" but all you have is an incorrect impression; no supporting evidence or explanation of you impression.

Hunches are garbage.

Nm you aren't mysterious stranger.

I'll find you the studies I referenced when I'm not on a cell phone. If I forget remind me sometime.

Smackledorfer: If I forget remind me sometime.

lol.

"If I forget to troll you, please remind me".

JuggleGeek: Smackledorfer: If I forget remind me sometime.

lol.

"If I forget to troll you, please remind me".

What part of saying nicotine is a stimulant proven to raise physiological markers of stress is trolling?

Or I can just do this, which should be more than enough evidence to put up against a statement like this:

TheMysteriousStranger: I was under the impression that nicotine was an easy way to reduce stress immediately. But the price of using it was that you would have more stress in general unless, of course, you smoked some more.

/can't believe I'm being called out for disagreeing with a general statement about "impressions"
//are full citations really necessary to disagree with an assertion containing no citations, let alone anecdotes, but just a hunch?

I'm calling you out for this crap.

Or the article.
Or do research.
Or at least BE a smoker and have personal experience.

You're spouting nonsense, and acting like an ass. That's why I called you out.

/don't be a dick, you won't get treated like a dick.

JuggleGeek: I'm calling you out for this crap.

Or the article.
Or do research.
Or at least BE a smoker and have personal experience.

You're spouting nonsense, and acting like an ass. That's why I called you out.

/don't be a dick, you won't get treated like a dick.

Sounds your beef should be with mysterious or isildur imo.

I don't see why being annoyed at people providing neither arguments nor evidence of their own assertions have any standing to demand scholarly citing from the rest of us. I don't think it is too much to ask people to hold themselves to the standards they demand from others.

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