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(Telegraph)   England: the legal reason we stop Christians from wearing crosses, but not Muslims from wearing hijabs is SHUT UP AND DO WHAT WE SAY   (blogs.telegraph.co.uk) divider line 46
    More: Dumbass, muslims, England, hijabs, headscarfs, religious discrimination  
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14311 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jan 2013 at 8:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-04 07:34:43 PM
6 votes:
all religions and their associated practices are loony
2013-01-04 08:59:25 PM
3 votes:
I was in college with a little Pashtun girl who wore very pretty head scarfs all the time, even in the fabrication laboratory (it's what you call a machine shop on grant applications).

One day she stopped wearing her head scarfs in the fab lab. I found out that she'd had a near death experience when one had gotten sucked up by a grinding wheel.

So, when safety people tell you not to wear loose items around 10,000 rpm machinery it doesn't matter if your god tells you to do something. YOU DON'T HAVE LOOSE ITEMS AROUND ROTATING MACHINERY!
2013-01-04 08:59:10 PM
3 votes:

Mattyb710: which is a requirement of the Muslim faith


Is it? Are there no muslim females that do not wear it?


It always comes down to sects.
2013-01-04 08:55:18 PM
3 votes:
True Christians wouldn't give a flying fark about wearing a symbol or otherwise proclaiming their theological status - they'd simply live the life, walk the walk and such. It's the self-rightous pious asslickers that screw up any belief system basically. Avoid zealots, they tend to be humorless, judgmental and hypocritical beyond reality.

/stopping going to church as of this week for these very reasons. My 'religion' is kindness and understanding. Labels be damned (literally).
2013-01-04 07:26:43 PM
3 votes:
A nine-year-old girl from south London has been forbidden from wearing her hijab
[...]
Which leads us to draw the inevitable comparison to
[...]
the Christian Baptist who was sacked for refusing to work

These two things do seem identical.
2013-01-04 07:25:48 PM
3 votes:
In imperial Rome, cross wears you!
2013-01-05 03:59:42 AM
2 votes:
I don't have one bit of sympathy for this family or their brat. Here's the school in question.

http://www.croydon.gov.uk/education/schools-new/primary-schools/st-cy p rians-primary

If you open the link you'll see it's a Greek Orthodox school. This moslem family is pulling the kind of stunt farkers usually attack Christians for. They're putting their kid in a school run by people whose religious views don't match theirs. Then they're whining because the school doesn't bend over backwards to accommodate them.

If you want your kid to wear a body bag to school, don't put her in a Greek Orthodox school. Put her in a public school or better yet, a moslem school.
2013-01-05 12:07:23 AM
2 votes:
Hijabs are cultural, not religious. They existed before Islam, for most of the same reasons they exist today - modesty of the woman.

While crosses also existed before Christianity, they weren't worn as tawdry ornamentation, and as worn symbolism, they are inherently religious.

See? That's not so hard to understand.
2013-01-04 09:18:21 PM
2 votes:

Fart_Machine: Wearing a headscarf or a cross is pretty benign. Trying to claim discrimination based on having to work on Sunday is stupid.


Why is it stupid?  Not working on "the Sabbath" (which most Christians take to mean Sunday) is one of the Ten Commandments.  It's pretty fundamental to the religion.  In fact, Exodus commands that a "sabbath-breaker" be executed.  At one time it was against the law in more than one part of the USA to work on Sunday.  There are still laws in Germany even now against doing some things on Sunday.
2013-01-04 09:18:07 PM
2 votes:

Jaws_Victim: The hijab is an integral part of the muslim faith for women, it all ties into how their women are inferior and need to be coddled and kept away from the lustful eyes of their fathers and brothers. Crosses are something Christians can wear to show they are intolerant of your religion and are more pious than you are. They are so much like jesus they need to have a little cross of their own to show they are bearing YOUR sins for YOU, you filthy non jesus lover.



Ah bullshiat.

I have worked with many Christians (especially Latin Americans) that wore crosses / crucifixes as reminders of their commitment to their faith - not to shove their religion down someone else's throat.

/Some were careful to make the sign of the cross whenever passing a cathedral.
2013-01-04 09:04:27 PM
2 votes:
What kind of loony world does the author live in? Here is the last paragraph:

It is possible, therefore, to mount a reasonable defence of banning [hijab] in school. Sacking a Christian employee for expressing her faith in a modest and personal fashion, however, is indefensible, and the Government's position on that issue is shameful.

The hijab is an integral part of the muslim faith for women, it all ties into how their women are inferior and need to be coddled and kept away from the lustful eyes of their fathers and brothers. Crosses are something Christians can wear to show they are intolerant of your religion and are more pious than you are. They are so much like jesus they need to have a little cross of their own to show they are bearing YOUR sins for YOU, you filthy non jesus lover.

Why would we compare a form of expressing your religion in a tacky little religious ornament to that of a cornerstone of the faith for women and muslims?
2013-01-04 09:00:05 PM
2 votes:
People need to chill on the regulatin' what other people wear, BUT.

A girl going to her local school, wearing clothing mandated by her religious sect, is not the same as an adult going to the workplace with a jewelry affectation NOT mandated by her religious sect. The kid really doesn't have a lot of choice about where she goes to school, or about wearing the hijab, while the grownup Christian can work elsewhere or leave the plus sign at home with no consequences except to her widdle feewings.

I lean toward the Muslims here, despite being constantly offended by the unstated insinuation that I am a slavering rapist kept at bay only because they conceal their hair from me.
2013-01-04 08:56:35 PM
2 votes:
The only practical solution to these race and cultural problems is to increase non-white immigration until whites are no longer a viable majority. Preferably even asked to assimilate into the culture of non-white immigrant populations. I congratulate the author of this article for "stepping up" but now he needs to "step back". While we may agree with his opinion, too long faces of his complexion have dominated the debate and historically as led to oppression and biased politics and sciences. Soon he will one day be a minority and no the true meaning of social justice.
2013-01-04 08:53:59 PM
2 votes:

Relatively Obscure: A nine-year-old girl from south London has been forbidden from wearing her hijab
[...]
Which leads us to draw the inevitable comparison to
[...]
the Christian Baptist who was sacked for refusing to work

These two things do seem identical.


That article was the stupidest thing I've read on Fark today.  Stupider than any comment in any Fark thread today.  And that's saying something.
2013-01-04 08:38:44 PM
2 votes:

cman: Vodka Zombie: Please give the persecution bullshiat a rest for a while, Christians. No one believes you anymore, so peddle you lies somewhere else.

DId you actually read the article?


Naah... I rarely ever read the articles here. It's safer that way.
2013-01-04 08:30:07 PM
2 votes:

Vodka Zombie: Please give the persecution bullshiat a rest for a while, Christians. No one believes you anymore, so peddle you lies somewhere else.


DId you actually read the article?
2013-01-04 08:26:06 PM
2 votes:
Please give the persecution bullshiat a rest for a while, Christians. No one believes you anymore, so peddle you lies somewhere else.
2013-01-04 08:22:57 PM
2 votes:
Well, the school is a public venue that can't discriminate against religion, whereas when you're an employee, a manager certainly has the leeway to tell you what you may or may not wear.

This is similar to Sarah Palin claiming FOX won't let her say whatever she wants, and claiming violation of her First Amendment rights.  When the government tells you to shut up. that's illegal.  When your boss tells you, you can shut up, or quit.
2013-01-05 10:04:00 AM
1 votes:
NO. That's it I've had enough.

I recant everything I've said.

Hijabs should be mandatory for everyone. Especially white, Christian, male teachers. And everyone must have their crucifixes on display at all times. Everyone must immediately convert to everyone else's faith, thus bringing everyone to a better understanding, and therefore tolerance, of one another's eccentricities. Especially the parts that conflict with what the others hold as the word of their Masters. Problem solved.

And the UK has no written constitution in any form. So, do what you like, Britons, there's no constitution holding you back from doing anything. You simultaneously have the right to to what you please, and have no rights at all. True Freedom. One Religion. One World.
/utterdouche, signing off.
2013-01-05 12:12:23 AM
1 votes:

s2s2s2: 0Icky0: In a cult, the people at the top know that it is a scam.
In a religion, those people have died off.


Which makes some "religions" such as Scientology particularly fascinating. Scientology has already had its schism, with the hardliners (scammers) at the top retaining control of the Church. But a loose coalition of at least 40-50 groups around the country operate in an underground manner, proselytizing, and not charging the "new blood" for attaining various levels of "clear."
2013-01-05 12:12:07 AM
1 votes:
Dated an Iranian girl in college - very quietly. She had cousins at the university.

She would take off the hijab as soon as we got out of town headed for my family's lake house for the weekend and not put it back on until Sunday evening when returning to school. Only reason she wore it was because if she did not, her cousins would either beat her up or call home and tell her folks. Then they would have sent someone over to take her home and they would have beaten her there. She hated the rules imposed under Islam, but did not dare speak out against them. She was very intelligent and wound up marrying a guy from Brazil where she could get escape beyond the reach of her family.

Do not assume all who weare the hijab like it.

But if a kid's family wants a kid to wear one to school, why not? Same with the crucifix jewelry - why not? Who the hell is it offending?
2013-01-04 11:58:07 PM
1 votes:

bump: True Christians wouldn't give a flying fark about wearing a symbol or otherwise proclaiming their theological status - they'd simply live the life, walk the walk and such. It's the self-rightous pious asslickers that screw up any belief system basically. Avoid zealots, they tend to be humorless, judgmental and hypocritical beyond reality.

/stopping going to church as of this week for these very reasons. My 'religion' is kindness and understanding. Labels be damned (literally).


Pretty much this.

I've had a little rule that has held me in good stead for 40+ years: Never hire a contractor who has a Jesus Fish on his truck or clothing. They are almost invariably liars, cheats and thieves. They use their "devoutness" as a cover much as an anglerfish uses their pole as a lure.
2.bp.blogspot.com
People that wear their religion (or their politics) on their sleeve are not to be trusted.
An actual cool story:

The most honest and honorable man I ever knew totally avoided all talk of religion, even to the extent of not sharing what his beliefs were. Long ago I was involved in an 8 figure business deal and this guy, through a series of screw-ups by the attorneys on our end, ended up legally holding the "hammer." An overlooked loophole would have allowed him to have it all. He was aware of it - his attorney said so. But he went through the transaction fair and square. There was a mutually profitable relationship for the next decade.

About 5 years later (15 after the deal) I found out the guy had been a Satanist for the last 30 years....
2013-01-04 11:51:58 PM
1 votes:
So goes the cowing of Europe to the extremists.

rudyvrodriguez.files.wordpress.com
2013-01-04 11:49:26 PM
1 votes:
Here's an idea: Why doesn't everyone mind their own business? Does what somebody wears on their body affect you? No? Then STFU.

If someone wears a certain piece of jewelry, does it affect what goes on in YOUR HEAD? No? Then shut up. If someone wears a scarf, does it affect what goes on in YOUR HEAD? Or if they prefer to work or not work on a certain day? Or have a picture of someone or something on their desk? Does it affect how YOU have to think? If not....

And if you're the one who wears the jewelry or the scarf or has the picture on your desk; here's an idea: Keep your mouth shut about it. You're wearing a scarf or a t-shaped object around your neck. Fine. I don't need to know any more about it than that. Does what I think about it affect anything in YOUR life? No? Then.....

And insofar as what people did to each other 1500 years ago, or 50, or even 5, again: Does that affect how you and I interact with each other on a daily basis, or how we make widgets or talk on the phone? If not, then....

Why is that such a hard concept for people to master? Wear your cross or your hijab if it makes you happy; I could care less. I'm going to have a naked picture of some guy on my desk and that will make me happy as long as you don't argue about it. I won't ask you to look at it. Do your job, I'll do mine. It does not matter that the Christians massacred the Moslems in the 3d Crusade or that the Nazis burned the Jews, at least not here and now in the office. Do your job and mind your business, okay?
2013-01-04 11:31:18 PM
1 votes:

Friction8r: All atheists suck ass. Rot in hell ya losers. And quit taking government handouts.


Now here's what I don't get. Liberals are the ones that push laws banning discrimination, and conservatives are the ones that fellate job-creators and the 'right to work'. Which is it, Republicans? Can you be fired for wearing a cross or not? Or is it only discrimination when you're the ones being discriminated against? How's it feel?
2013-01-04 11:29:07 PM
1 votes:
European Christians put about six million jews in ovens last century, in the name of "god and country." At the orders of a leader who declared himself to be following god's orders. I think christians can just shut the fark up and stop their god damn ceaseless whining.
2013-01-04 10:19:02 PM
1 votes:

Jaws_Victim: s2s2s2: ko_kyi:


/did someone just turn up the heat?

[s7.postimage.org image 500x375]

I don't know, I'm feeling pretty hot here.


Here's a fun fact: female suicide bombs are more effective than male ones (as measured in number of deaths per attack).  I forget the exact number but it's something like 29 kills per attack versus only 26 for male bombers.  Female bombers also usually assassinate specific targets rather than just go after random groups of people as male bombers do.

So yay women power or something.
2013-01-04 10:16:48 PM
1 votes:
Or how about, leaving all religious trinkets and costumes at home?
2013-01-04 10:10:34 PM
1 votes:
Why are there so many assholes on fark these days?
2013-01-04 09:45:59 PM
1 votes:

ciberido: Fart_Machine: Wearing a headscarf or a cross is pretty benign. Trying to claim discrimination based on having to work on Sunday is stupid.

Why is it stupid?  Not working on "the Sabbath" (which most Christians take to mean Sunday) is one of the Ten Commandments.  It's pretty fundamental to the religion.  In fact, Exodus commands that a "sabbath-breaker" be executed.  At one time it was against the law in more than one part of the USA to work on Sunday.  There are still laws in Germany even now against doing some things on Sunday.


Such an execution would be verbotten here in the United States. By any standard, it is a vicious violation of individual liberties. Further, someone else's religious beliefs should hold no more weight than my personal, non-religious beliefs. Imagining that one's values came from an imaginary sky god does not make them any more sacred than rationally-decided ones.

But that's not why wearing crosses is stupid (though it is stupid). Also not why wearing burkas is stupid (though it is stupid).
2013-01-04 09:32:59 PM
1 votes:
Whar written constitution?

Whar?
2013-01-04 09:24:42 PM
1 votes:

Jaws_Victim: What kind of loony world does the author live in? Here is the last paragraph:

It is possible, therefore, to mount a reasonable defence of banning [hijab] in school. Sacking a Christian employee for expressing her faith in a modest and personal fashion, however, is indefensible, and the Government's position on that issue is shameful.

The hijab is an integral part of the muslim faith for women,


No it isn't. It's a bunch of Arab bullshiat. Until recently, no Muslim women in India, Bangladesh or Indonesia covered their hair, and even now it's a small minority. That's about 40 percent of the Muslim world right there. It's just a Bedouin cultural thang; they were hiding their women when Muhammsd was gleam in Abdullah's eye.
2013-01-04 09:12:42 PM
1 votes:

ciberido: uttertosh: cman: If they want to liberate women,

point missed entirely. Nothing to do with women's lib. Everything to do with not allowing religious beliefs to interfere with non-segregation in the education system.

May FSM have mercy on my immortal soul, but I think ((oh it hurts to say this)) cman actually has a point.  It's a bit hard to tell through the incoherent ravings, but I THINK TFA was trying to say that the difference between "allowing" a nine-year-old girl to wear a headscarf to school and allowing an adult to wear a cross is that, while both are symbols of the wearer's devotion to their religion, the headscarf is problematic inasmuch as it represents Islam's subjugation of women (or, if not actual subjugation, at least the double standard radical Islam has in terms of proper dress).

Unfortunately, just as he was getting around to saying this, his brain locked up and he started yammering about pedophilia, and whatever valid point he may or may not have been about to actually articulate got strangled by the resulting derpstorm.


Granted, but the real reason is to stop religious segregation-based bullying from disrupting lessons within state funded schools, in a state that mandates that both should remain separate. That's what it boils down to when the derp has evaporated.
2013-01-04 09:10:29 PM
1 votes:

ko_kyi: I like this analogy. Wear the hijab because in your culture men are one thin layer of cloth from raping you, wear the cross so everyone can know you are better than them


The cross is to remind rapists their victim will have to forgive them.


/did someone just turn up the heat?
2013-01-04 09:09:53 PM
1 votes:
Oh, and Arab dudes? Trying to keep women from looking sexy by making them wear hijab, or even niqab? It's not working.

25.media.tumblr.com

1.bp.blogspot.com
2013-01-04 09:08:50 PM
1 votes:

s2s2s2: One follows an unseen super being, and the other follows a living person, or physical object found here on earth.


In a cult, the people at the top know that it is a scam.
In a religion, those people have died off.
2013-01-04 09:07:49 PM
1 votes:

uttertosh: cman: If they want to liberate women,

point missed entirely. Nothing to do with women's lib. Everything to do with not allowing religious beliefs to interfere with non-segregation in the education system.


May FSM have mercy on my immortal soul, but I think ((oh it hurts to say this)) cman actually has a point.  It's a bit hard to tell through the incoherent ravings, but I THINK TFA was trying to say that the difference between "allowing" a nine-year-old girl to wear a headscarf to school and allowing an adult to wear a cross is that, while both are symbols of the wearer's devotion to their religion, the headscarf is problematic inasmuch as it represents Islam's subjugation of women (or, if not actual subjugation, at least the double standard radical Islam has in terms of proper dress).

Unfortunately, just as he was getting around to saying this, his brain locked up and he started yammering about pedophilia, and whatever valid point he may or may not have been about to actually articulate got strangled by the resulting derpstorm.
2013-01-04 09:07:39 PM
1 votes:

mbillips: People need to chill on the regulatin' what other people wear, BUT.

A girl going to her local school, wearing clothing mandated by her religious sect, is not the same as an adult going to the workplace with a jewelry affectation NOT mandated by her religious sect. The kid really doesn't have a lot of choice about where she goes to school, or about wearing the hijab, while the grownup Christian can work elsewhere or leave the plus sign at home with no consequences except to her widdle feewings.

I lean toward the Muslims here, despite being constantly offended by the unstated insinuation that I am a slavering rapist kept at bay only because they conceal their hair from me.


It's mostly this, heavily weighted toward the fact that this is a 9-year old child. It's not like making HER take off the hijab is going to make HER PARENTS more tolerant or less slavishly devoted to their religion; and it might make it worse for the child at her home or in her community. If they are conservative enough, they could just yank her out of school completely and send her back to the Old Country where 9-year old girls are old enough to be wives.

Which is not to say that firing someone for their choice of jewelry isn't completely asinine; just that any Christian woman whose faith is so fragile she has to compare her situation to a young child's is probably not doing herself any favors.
2013-01-04 09:04:56 PM
1 votes:
Should I be allowed to go to school wearing my kirpan? It's the same thing making me wear it. My religion.
2013-01-04 08:58:26 PM
1 votes:

Relatively Obscure: A nine-year-old girl from south London has been forbidden from wearing her hijab
[...]
Which leads us to draw the inevitable comparison to
[...]
the Christian Baptist who was sacked for refusing to work

These two things do seem identical.


This. (assuming sarcasm)

As usual, Christians feels discriminated because they can't impose their religion on someone else, while at the same time discriminating against another faith for doing something that affects no one else.
"What do you mean I can't put stone monuments carved with the ten commandments in front of the courthouse? You don't eat Skittles because gelatin is made with pork fat!"
2013-01-04 08:54:54 PM
1 votes:

Fart_Machine: Wearing a headscarf or a cross is pretty benign


Not to many people, it's not. Me included. Both are symbols of horrifying oppression.
2013-01-04 08:54:48 PM
1 votes:

cman: Vodka Zombie: Please give the persecution bullshiat a rest for a while, Christians. No one believes you anymore, so peddle you lies somewhere else.

DId you actually read the article?


I did. Please explain to me how a Hijab, which is a requirement of the Muslim faith, is the same as a cross, which some people simply choose to wear.
2013-01-04 08:52:50 PM
1 votes:

cman: If they want to liberate women,


point missed entirely. Nothing to do with women's lib. Everything to do with not allowing religious beliefs to interfere with non-segregation in the education system.

Want something to get annoyed at for real? The allowance for state-funded Roman-Catholic only schools. Now that's utterly disgusting, and completely unconstitutional. (yes, the UK has a constitution.)
2013-01-04 08:45:19 PM
1 votes:
Awww, is somebody pissing their pants over Muslims again? What a bunch of pansies.
2013-01-04 07:59:04 PM
1 votes:
Banning religious articles is asinine. Why they want to take headscarfs away is a misguided policy. If they want to liberate women, then they should give them opportunities to leave their abusive situation. You cannot force someone to be free. Many of these women feel that is their duty by god. shiat like this besoils ones conscience.
2013-01-04 07:53:19 PM
1 votes:

KawaiiNot: Christians just jelly cause they don't have cool hats to wear like all the other religions. Maybe they could make the fez required wear?


Old Catholic women still wear doilies to mass sometimes.
 
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