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(Telegraph)   England: the legal reason we stop Christians from wearing crosses, but not Muslims from wearing hijabs is SHUT UP AND DO WHAT WE SAY   (blogs.telegraph.co.uk) divider line 284
    More: Dumbass, muslims, England, hijabs, headscarfs, religious discrimination  
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14313 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jan 2013 at 8:43 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-05 01:21:16 AM  

Aussie_As: MerelyFoolish: Dated an Iranian girl in college - very quietly. She had cousins at the university.

She would take off the hijab as soon as we got out of town headed for my family's lake house for the weekend and not put it back on until Sunday evening when returning to school. Only reason she wore it was because if she did not, her cousins would either beat her up or call home and tell her folks. Then they would have sent someone over to take her home and they would have beaten her there. She hated the rules imposed under Islam, but did not dare speak out against them. She was very intelligent and wound up marrying a guy from Brazil where she could get escape beyond the reach of her family.

Do not assume all who weare the hijab like it.

But if a kid's family wants a kid to wear one to school, why not? Same with the crucifix jewelry - why not? Who the hell is it offending?

Wait, so you admit some hijab-wearing women are pressured into it, you sympathise with the women involved, then you leave the decision up to the "kid's family wants a kid to wear one"? That's farked dude. It's not about what a family wants. It's about what the individual woman wants. You sound like you feel your ex-girlfriends cousins were right and she was wrong. That's appalling.


Did you miss the part about where she was doing it because she wanted to keep her family from sending her back home? She was doing it because she wanted to NOT be beaten by her cousins and NOT be shipped home to be married off to some old man with a couple other wives. She wasn't "wrong" she was doing what she thought was best, and he was supporting her in her decision.

I love people who seem to think an individual really can do what the individual wants and screw everyone else and there are zero repercussions. Like a Persian girl can just say "Nope, not gonna wear the hijab!" and her parents and cousins will say "Oh, OK, honey!" and that's it. She may have the RIGHT to do so, but social pressures and love/respect for one's family often outweigh the legal niceties. And anyone who thinks they somehow "should" needs to stop and think how many "rights" they've given up to keep their parents happy or prevent social opprobium. It's not as easy to cut ties to your family as people want to pretend they believe.
 
2013-01-05 01:21:49 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Because your job is not the same as being a student in a school. Now stfu about not being able to wear your gaudy jewelry and gbtw.


I work from home. Most days I don't wear pants.
 
2013-01-05 01:29:13 AM  

rohar: The My Little Pony Killer: Because your job is not the same as being a student in a school. Now stfu about not being able to wear your gaudy jewelry and gbtw.

I work from home. Most days I don't wear pants.


Are you one of the whiny women from TFA?
 
2013-01-05 01:31:24 AM  

Aussie_As: If you're old enough to wear a hijab, you're old enough to have a say in this. It's your right.



That is your opinion, not a fact. I could turn it around and say if you are old enough to go to church you are old enough to have a say it in, its your right, but the fact of the matter it is not.

Also you replied to MerelyFoolish who said if a family wanted a girl to wear one, and decided to change the conversation to young women, hence where I corrected you.

We can debate the definition of young woman or girl, but the religion calls for that type of dress at puberty, and in are civilization you still tend to be labeled more girl then young woman at that age.
 
2013-01-05 01:40:24 AM  

The My Little Pony Killer: rohar: The My Little Pony Killer: Because your job is not the same as being a student in a school. Now stfu about not being able to wear your gaudy jewelry and gbtw.

I work from home. Most days I don't wear pants.

Are you one of the whiny women from TFA?


Yup, that's me. The guy wearing no pants and a hijab. With a crucifix hanging off my pecker.
 
2013-01-05 01:40:28 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Aussie_As: MerelyFoolish: Dated an Iranian girl in college - very quietly. She had cousins at the university.

She would take off the hijab as soon as we got out of town headed for my family's lake house for the weekend and not put it back on until Sunday evening when returning to school. Only reason she wore it was because if she did not, her cousins would either beat her up or call home and tell her folks. Then they would have sent someone over to take her home and they would have beaten her there. She hated the rules imposed under Islam, but did not dare speak out against them. She was very intelligent and wound up marrying a guy from Brazil where she could get escape beyond the reach of her family.

Do not assume all who weare the hijab like it.

But if a kid's family wants a kid to wear one to school, why not? Same with the crucifix jewelry - why not? Who the hell is it offending?

Wait, so you admit some hijab-wearing women are pressured into it, you sympathise with the women involved, then you leave the decision up to the "kid's family wants a kid to wear one"? That's farked dude. It's not about what a family wants. It's about what the individual woman wants. You sound like you feel your ex-girlfriends cousins were right and she was wrong. That's appalling.

Did you miss the part about where she was doing it because she wanted to keep her family from sending her back home? She was doing it because she wanted to NOT be beaten by her cousins and NOT be shipped home to be married off to some old man with a couple other wives. She wasn't "wrong" she was doing what she thought was best, and he was supporting her in her decision.

I love people who seem to think an individual really can do what the individual wants and screw everyone else and there are zero repercussions. Like a Persian girl can just say "Nope, not gonna wear the hijab!" and her parents and cousins will say "Oh, OK, honey!" and that's it. She may have the RIGHT to do so, but social pressures and lo ...


I think you are looking too much into his post, and not reading it though enough. He specifically said KID, not adult, young woman or even girl, which implies he is talking about k-8 graders, not college students.
 
2013-01-05 01:42:33 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Aussie_As: MerelyFoolish: Dated an Iranian girl in college - very quietly. She had cousins at the university.

She would take off the hijab as soon as we got out of town headed for my family's lake house for the weekend and not put it back on until Sunday evening when returning to school. Only reason she wore it was because if she did not, her cousins would either beat her up or call home and tell her folks. Then they would have sent someone over to take her home and they would have beaten her there. She hated the rules imposed under Islam, but did not dare speak out against them. She was very intelligent and wound up marrying a guy from Brazil where she could get escape beyond the reach of her family.

Do not assume all who weare the hijab like it.

But if a kid's family wants a kid to wear one to school, why not? Same with the crucifix jewelry - why not? Who the hell is it offending?

Wait, so you admit some hijab-wearing women are pressured into it, you sympathise with the women involved, then you leave the decision up to the "kid's family wants a kid to wear one"? That's farked dude. It's not about what a family wants. It's about what the individual woman wants. You sound like you feel your ex-girlfriends cousins were right and she was wrong. That's appalling.

Did you miss the part about where she was doing it because she wanted to keep her family from sending her back home? She was doing it because she wanted to NOT be beaten by her cousins and NOT be shipped home to be married off to some old man with a couple other wives. She wasn't "wrong" she was doing what she thought was best, and he was supporting her in her decision.

I love people who seem to think an individual really can do what the individual wants and screw everyone else and there are zero repercussions. Like a Persian girl can just say "Nope, not gonna wear the hijab!" and her parents and cousins will say "Oh, OK, honey!" and that's it. She may have the RIGHT to do so, but social pressures and lo ...


You are an idiot. I said precisely NOTHING AT ALL about MerelyFoolish's ex-girlfriend. Re-read my post.

What I was criticising MeerlyFoolish for was saying, as he did, that the decision about whether a muslim female wears a hijab should be left to her family. He should have had more sympathy for that situation given his direct experience of it. Or do you believe she should have been forced to be miserable? If so, have you considered joining the Taliban?
 
2013-01-05 01:45:43 AM  

thaylin: Aussie_As: If you're old enough to wear a hijab, you're old enough to have a say in this. It's your right.


That is your opinion, not a fact. I could turn it around and say if you are old enough to go to church you are old enough to have a say it in, its your right, but the fact of the matter it is not.

Also you replied to MerelyFoolish who said if a family wanted a girl to wear one, and decided to change the conversation to young women, hence where I corrected you.

We can debate the definition of young woman or girl, but the religion calls for that type of dress at puberty, and in are civilization you still tend to be labeled more girl then young woman at that age.


Millions and millions of muslim women don't wear the hijab. Why do Farkers keep claiming that "the religion calls for" hijabs? Please cite.
 
2013-01-05 01:51:12 AM  

Aussie_As: aid if a family wanted a


Aussie_As: thaylin: Aussie_As: If you're old enough to wear a hijab, you're old enough to have a say in this. It's your right.


That is your opinion, not a fact. I could turn it around and say if you are old enough to go to church you are old enough to have a say it in, its your right, but the fact of the matter it is not.

Also you replied to MerelyFoolish who said if a family wanted a girl to wear one, and decided to change the conversation to young women, hence where I corrected you.

We can debate the definition of young woman or girl, but the religion calls for that type of dress at puberty, and in are civilization you still tend to be labeled more girl then young woman at that age.

Millions and millions of muslim women don't wear the hijab. Why do Farkers keep claiming that "the religion calls for" hijabs? Please cite.


I think you need some reading comprehension there bub. I said that type of dress, not specifically a hijab. The religion calls for people to dress modestly, and at the age of puberty they become responsible for their own appearance to ensure it it modest. A hijab is one type of dress that can allow them to dress modestly.
 
2013-01-05 01:56:39 AM  

thaylin: Aussie_As: aid if a family wanted a

Aussie_As: thaylin: Aussie_As: If you're old enough to wear a hijab, you're old enough to have a say in this. It's your right.


That is your opinion, not a fact. I could turn it around and say if you are old enough to go to church you are old enough to have a say it in, its your right, but the fact of the matter it is not.

Also you replied to MerelyFoolish who said if a family wanted a girl to wear one, and decided to change the conversation to young women, hence where I corrected you.

We can debate the definition of young woman or girl, but the religion calls for that type of dress at puberty, and in are civilization you still tend to be labeled more girl then young woman at that age.

Millions and millions of muslim women don't wear the hijab. Why do Farkers keep claiming that "the religion calls for" hijabs? Please cite.

I think you need some reading comprehension there bub. I said that type of dress, not specifically a hijab. The religion calls for people to dress modestly, and at the age of puberty they become responsible for their own appearance to ensure it it modest. A hijab is one type of dress that can allow them to dress modestly.


Ah, my error. Please forgive me for presuming that in a thread about hijabs and in a reply to a post where you used a pronoun ("you replied to MerelyFoolish who said if a family wanted a girl to wear one") to refer to a hijab, and then you used a reference to "that type of dress" you were referring to a hijab.

But is it really me who needs some reading comprehension? Perhaps you need to reduce your use of pronouns and be more specific.
 
2013-01-05 02:03:35 AM  

Aussie_As: thaylin: Aussie_As: aid if a family wanted a

Aussie_As: thaylin: Aussie_As: If you're old enough to wear a hijab, you're old enough to have a say in this. It's your right.


That is your opinion, not a fact. I could turn it around and say if you are old enough to go to church you are old enough to have a say it in, its your right, but the fact of the matter it is not.

Also you replied to MerelyFoolish who said if a family wanted a girl to wear one, and decided to change the conversation to young women, hence where I corrected you.

We can debate the definition of young woman or girl, but the religion calls for that type of dress at puberty, and in are civilization you still tend to be labeled more girl then young woman at that age.

Millions and millions of muslim women don't wear the hijab. Why do Farkers keep claiming that "the religion calls for" hijabs? Please cite.

I think you need some reading comprehension there bub. I said that type of dress, not specifically a hijab. The religion calls for people to dress modestly, and at the age of puberty they become responsible for their own appearance to ensure it it modest. A hijab is one type of dress that can allow them to dress modestly.

Ah, my error. Please forgive me for presuming that in a thread about hijabs and in a reply to a post where you used a pronoun ("you replied to MerelyFoolish who said if a family wanted a girl to wear one") to refer to a hijab, and then you used a reference to "that type of dress" you were referring to a hijab.

But is it really me who needs some reading comprehension? Perhaps you need to reduce your use of pronouns and be more specific.


I dont know, maybe the word TYPE, as in CATAGORY, not a specific item?

And you need to stop assuming you know what is in islam. How do you even know that wearing one is not required by any denomination of islam? If that religion is anything like Christianity there can be a billion and one different flavors.
 
2013-01-05 02:08:28 AM  

thaylin: Aussie_As: thaylin: Aussie_As: ...

I dont know, maybe the word TYPE, as in CATAGORY, not a specific item?

And you need to stop assuming you know what is in islam. How do you even know that wearing one is not required by any denomination of islam? If that religion is anything like Christianity there can be a billion and one different flavors.


Yeah, it was more the 'that' before the 'type' which threw me. 'That' tends to mean something more specific than just 'type'.
 
2013-01-05 02:08:41 AM  

s2s2s2: IlGreven: The only difference between a religion and a cult is

One follows an unseen super being, and the other follows a living person, or physical object found here on earth.


Most Protestant offshoots of Christianity follow living persons in addition to the unseen super being (Calvinism = John Calvin; Mormonism = Joseph Smith and Brigham Young; Jehovah's Witnesses = Charles Russell and Joe Rutherford, Adventism = William Miller, Methodism = John Wesley, Lutheran = Martin Luther, etc.) You could make arguments for JW's and Mormons being cults, but your definition puts Lutherism, Methodism, and Calvinism into cult status, too. Hell, even Christianity itself began by following a single living person, though they rolled a saving throw with the Nicene Creed, claiming that said living person was the unseen super being in disguise. Would you label all of Christendom a Cult, while labeling Scientology (which follows an unseen super being, as bespoken by a living person) a religion? If not, where's the line?

I reiterate: The only difference between a religion and a cult is size.
 
2013-01-05 02:18:46 AM  

IlGreven: s2s2s2: IlGreven: The only difference between a religion and a cult is

One follows an unseen super being, and the other follows a living person, or physical object found here on earth.

Most Protestant offshoots of Christianity follow living persons in addition to the unseen super being (Calvinism = John Calvin; Mormonism = Joseph Smith and Brigham Young; Jehovah's Witnesses = Charles Russell and Joe Rutherford, Adventism = William Miller, Methodism = John Wesley, Lutheran = Martin Luther, etc.) You could make arguments for JW's and Mormons being cults, but your definition puts Lutherism, Methodism, and Calvinism into cult status, too. Hell, even Christianity itself began by following a single living person, though they rolled a saving throw with the Nicene Creed, claiming that said living person was the unseen super being in disguise. Would you label all of Christendom a Cult, while labeling Scientology (which follows an unseen super being, as bespoken by a living person) a religion? If not, where's the line?

I reiterate: The only difference between a religion and a cult is size.


And here was me thinking that the difference was that all religions are actually the proven "one true religion" while cults are just scams for profit :)
 
2013-01-05 02:21:31 AM  

Aussie_As: It's not about what a family wants. It's about what the individual woman wants.


Says who? Who are you to decide what values should apply to those of a different culture? For some individuals it is about what the family wants.
 
2013-01-05 02:31:35 AM  

Aussie_As: What I was criticising MeerlyFoolish for was saying, as he did, that the decision about whether a muslim female wears a hijab should be left to her family. He should have had more sympathy for that situation given his direct experience of it. Or do you believe she should have been forced to be miserable? If so, have you considered joining the Taliban?


So, when a 12 year old girl decides that she no longer wants to go to Sunday school at her catholic church but her parents insist that she continue to do so then they are just like members of the Taliban? Or what about a guy who was raised jewish but secretly renounced his faith as an adult but when he goes home he puts on his yamaka and goes through the motion of prayer because he is expected to do so by his parents? Should his parents join the Taliban?
 
2013-01-05 02:38:21 AM  

IlGreven: I reiterate: The only difference between a religion and a cult is size.


Cults are generally exclusionary and impose rules on their adherents. Religions are generally open and invite adherents to take on their rules. To hear about some of these differences, talk to an ex-JW or ex-Scientologist whose still-cult-following family is forbidden to be with them.
 
2013-01-05 02:51:43 AM  

ciberido: Fart_Machine: Wearing a headscarf or a cross is pretty benign. Trying to claim discrimination based on having to work on Sunday is stupid.

Why is it stupid?  Not working on "the Sabbath" (which most Christians take to mean Sunday) is one of the Ten Commandments.  It's pretty fundamental to the religion.  In fact, Exodus commands that a "sabbath-breaker" be executed.  At one time it was against the law in more than one part of the USA to work on Sunday.  There are still laws in Germany even now against doing some things on Sunday.


What is stupid is that all Christians realize that work must be done on Sunday in order for society to function. 99% of them don't believe that the 10 - 18 commandments mean they can't do work on Sunday. (depending on how you group them, Catholics and Baptists believe in two different sets of 10 commandments). You believe that people that go to work on Sunday are doomed to hell, but then call up Cox Cable to have them fix your cable on a Sunday, or call the heating repair man to fix your home's busted heater on a Sunday, or require the men who dump salt and shovel snow off our highways work on Sunday? You're a worthless scumbag and I have no sympathy for you or your stupid interpretation of your stupid contradictory religious mythological books.

If your religion requires that you make sacrifices, then make the sacrifices. Don't expect others to sacrifice for you. If you wan't your child to wear burqa to school, then make the sacrifice and send her to a Muslim school that allows such nonsense. If you want to take off some particular day of the week because voices from an invisible pink unicorn in the sky told you to, then make the sacrifice. Find a job that allows you that privilege or start your own business. When I own a business I have a right to make my employees work ONLY on Sundays and no other day if I want. If you don't like it, then don't apply here or find another place to work or suffer at home in poverty. It's not my problem. That's the sacrifice you make when you choose to believe in nonsense.
 
2013-01-05 03:06:26 AM  
Just Another OC Homeless Guy

I saw a guy wearing that shirt at the 7-11 and I just let him go about his business; there's no good reason to acknowledge AWs.

but you should know that
 
2013-01-05 03:15:25 AM  

ultraholland: all religions and their associated practices are loony


Yeah, but religious fashion doesn't really get in the way of anything. It's not like the kid is wearing something that covers her face and makes her unidentifiable, it's just a scarf that goes over her hair.

It's not sillier than the UK's own religiously-based requirements that girls wear a shirt even when engaged in athletic activities. It's just etiquette, banning it is sort of like banning everyone that speaks Spanish form being polite.
 
2013-01-05 03:45:01 AM  

sunlion: European Christians put about six million jews in ovens last century, in the name of "god and country." At the orders of a leader who declared himself to be following god's orders. I think christians can just shut the fark up and stop their god damn ceaseless whining.


Yeah, because Naziism and Christianity are one and the same.

Does it hurt to be that stupid?
 
2013-01-05 03:51:02 AM  

EmmaLou: Hijabs are not signs of oppression. If you really think that, you haven't studied Islam in any detail or talked to a Muslim women about them. Wearing a scarf is completely up to the woman. Men cannot force their wives or daughters to wear them. If he does, that's abuse.


If that were true, that would be great.

But it is, sadly, not at all true.
 
2013-01-05 03:59:42 AM  
I don't have one bit of sympathy for this family or their brat. Here's the school in question.

http://www.croydon.gov.uk/education/schools-new/primary-schools/st-cy p rians-primary

If you open the link you'll see it's a Greek Orthodox school. This moslem family is pulling the kind of stunt farkers usually attack Christians for. They're putting their kid in a school run by people whose religious views don't match theirs. Then they're whining because the school doesn't bend over backwards to accommodate them.

If you want your kid to wear a body bag to school, don't put her in a Greek Orthodox school. Put her in a public school or better yet, a moslem school.
 
2013-01-05 04:00:29 AM  

IlGreven: s2s2s2: IlGreven: The only difference between a religion and a cult is

One follows an unseen super being, and the other follows a living person, or physical object found here on earth.

Most Protestant offshoots of Christianity follow living persons in addition to the unseen super being (Calvinism = John Calvin; Mormonism = Joseph Smith and Brigham Young; Jehovah's Witnesses = Charles Russell and Joe Rutherford, Adventism = William Miller, Methodism = John Wesley, Lutheran = Martin Luther, etc.) You could make arguments for JW's and Mormons being cults, but your definition puts Lutherism, Methodism, and Calvinism into cult status, too. Hell, even Christianity itself began by following a single living person, though they rolled a saving throw with the Nicene Creed, claiming that said living person was the unseen super being in disguise. Would you label all of Christendom a Cult, while labeling Scientology (which follows an unseen super being, as bespoken by a living person) a religion? If not, where's the line?

I reiterate: The only difference between a religion and a cult is size.



I guess you're not really clear on that word "living."
 
2013-01-05 04:03:35 AM  
www.jerrydodrill.com

Hahaha, hey guys, look at that girl's stupid hat!
 
2013-01-05 04:08:48 AM  

Mock26: Aussie_As: It's not about what a family wants. It's about what the individual woman wants.

Says who? Who are you to decide what values should apply to those of a different culture? For some individuals it is about what the family wants.


If those individuals are happy with that then that's cool. Else it's farked. I make no apologies for supporting individual rights. If you want to call that cultural relativism then I plead guilty.

I'm not a parent but I've been a step-parent to four kids who were aged 2-7 when I moved in. They're now young adults (youngest is 16, all the others are over 18). We raised them to be good to others and understand their legal obligations. We never imposed rules about their dress, hairstyles or sexual behaviour other than advise them as to the laws about sex. Interestingly, my parents had a far more oppressive style and I reacted to this by rebelling. Our kids are neat and tidy by their own choice. Not always conservative though. Nor should they be.

Imposing rules on young family members inevitably, particularly in muslim culture, leads to patriarchy. The protests against rape in India currently going on are actually protests against ludicrous patriarchy (yes I know India is not majority muslim but the cultural values are very similar). Womens' rights are frequently oppressed in majority muslim countries, because of "family values".

Where do you draw the line? I know where I stand and I'm comfortable with this.
 
2013-01-05 04:10:39 AM  
So I can walk into a bank wearing a mask if it is part of my religion?

Cool.
 
2013-01-05 04:16:26 AM  

Mock26: Aussie_As: What I was criticising MeerlyFoolish for was saying, as he did, that the decision about whether a muslim female wears a hijab should be left to her family. He should have had more sympathy for that situation given his direct experience of it. Or do you believe she should have been forced to be miserable? If so, have you considered joining the Taliban?

So, when a 12 year old girl decides that she no longer wants to go to Sunday school at her catholic church but her parents insist that she continue to do so then they are just like members of the Taliban? Or what about a guy who was raised jewish but secretly renounced his faith as an adult but when he goes home he puts on his yamaka and goes through the motion of prayer because he is expected to do so by his parents? Should his parents join the Taliban?


No, they're not like members of the Taliban, they're just oppressive and their actions will most likely breed the precise opposite that their parents intend. The best Catholics are those who choose to be. The worst Catholics are those who (quite fairly) biatch to all and sundry that their religion was imposed on them by their stupid parents. If you're doing marketing for the Catholic church, what would you prefer?

As a step-parent of many years experience, and having been the child of a relatively oppressive mother (although my mother has accepted my life choices despite not approving of them and I congratulate her for at least that much) I firmly believe that parents don't own their kids, they can only support them. Parents who believe otherwise are generally in for a big disappointment.
 
2013-01-05 04:16:49 AM  

Solid Muldoon: So I can walk into a bank wearing a mask if it is part of my religion?


Yes, usually?
 
2013-01-05 04:29:38 AM  
Has anyone pointed out that the headline is bullshiat, and doesn't even reflect the article let alone the law?

There is no legal ban on wearing the cross in England. However, wearing the cross is not protected by law as it is not a required part of Christianity.
 
2013-01-05 04:31:16 AM  

s2s2s2: Fart_Machine: Trying to claim discrimination based on having to work on Sunday is stupid.

Unless you take the bible seriously, but don't really know what it says.

;)


This.

Shabbat is on a Saturday!
 
2013-01-05 04:37:32 AM  

PaLarkin: I don't have one bit of sympathy for this family or their brat. Here's the school in question.

http://www.croydon.gov.uk/education/schools-new/primary-schools/st-cy p rians-primary

If you open the link you'll see it's a Greek Orthodox school. This moslem family is pulling the kind of stunt farkers usually attack Christians for. They're putting their kid in a school run by people whose religious views don't match theirs. Then they're whining because the school doesn't bend over backwards to accommodate them.

If you want your kid to wear a body bag to school, don't put her in a Greek Orthodox school. Put her in a public school or better yet, a moslem school.


Excellent point and well made. I'll only disagree with one detail: in my experience the "modesty" standards of Greek orthodox and muslims are only different in the detail of the hijab. Any issues of skirt length, wearing makeup or visible cleavage would be dealt with identically in both cultures. Very different standards would apply in public education.

Nevertheless, your point that a Greek orthodox school should be able to set its own standards is very correct. You know what you're getting when you sign up to this joint.

/I also support students who rebel against these standards. If I could do my own private education all over, I'd have gotten myself expelled in no time flat. Fark that.
 
2013-01-05 05:27:02 AM  
 
2013-01-05 05:38:20 AM  

Relatively Obscure: Solid Muldoon: So I can walk into a bank wearing a mask if it is part of my religion?

Yes, usually?


Point Break 2: The Burkha Bandits.
 
2013-01-05 05:53:18 AM  

Uranus Is Huge!: uttertosh: cman: Why doesnt anyone from the Witangemoot simplify the constitution by putting it down in a uniformed constitution? UK constitution is made up of various shiat, but there is no clarity.

uttertosh: it's just not a powerpoint bullet list for ADhD children.

Man, you are really fired up about the uncodified nature of the UK constitution. Can you explain why you feel the need to lash out at anyone the questions this unusual characteristic?


Maybe because way to many people simply assume that if a constitution is not in the same general format as the American one it is somehow invalid or inferior. I don't believe you're one of them since many of your posts seem to be fairly well thought out, but Poe's law, being what it is, means that your post (obviously intended to be tongue in cheek) will be taken seriously by some of the more cognitively challenged. That can get irritating...just sayin'
 
2013-01-05 06:20:56 AM  

s2s2s2: In what way? Oh, you think it's freedom FROM religion, like Sarah Palin thinks freedom of speech is freedom from other people's speech.


huh? There is no place for religion in the STATE FUNDED education system (outside the RE class). No creationist science in the real science class, no morning assembly prayer, no crosses on the walls, no 'in god we trust', no ceremonial daggers, no hijabs, no hindi robes, no pagan animal sacrifices, no ouija boards, no satanic rites, no you're 'gay, so you're going to hell' (should I go on? really?)

If you let one get one, you have to allow every religion to practice their religion, as they see fit, during publicly funded education time, (eye of newt) warts and all.

Yes, the state that allows freedom of religion, that also separates itself from 'church' should in no way allow ANY form of religious expression in it's schools. It is neither the time, nor the place for this kind of activity.

If there is a problem, or conflict of interest, then maybe the church that 'mandates' certain things should start up, and fund it's own schools, that do allow. That'd be the proper use of the right to freedom of religion.

Uranus Is Huge!: Man, you are really fired up about the uncodified nature of the UK constitution. Can you explain why you feel the need to lash out at anyone the questions this unusual characteristic?


WHAR WRITTEN CONSTITUTION WHAR? That's why.

Their constitution is written. (FFS It's written in LAW) It's just not a children's book. (It's what got me reading on the subject in the first place)

look, I completely understand how baffling their constitution seems from an American perspective (you've been brought up with a constitution that looks a certain way), but just because their constitution isn't a neatly ordered, numbered, s.p.e.l.l.e.d. o.u.t. constitution like the one created by America, doesn't mean they don't have one.


Just Another OC Homeless Guy: errr... no, they don't. Link


So, you maintain that the UK has no constitution whatsoever? ok. Good luck with that.
 
2013-01-05 06:22:15 AM  

Mike_1962: more cognitively challenged


....
 
2013-01-05 07:16:49 AM  

Indubitably: Indubitably: Indubitably: Aussie_As: Mattyb710: cman: Vodka Zombie: Please give the persecution bullshiat a rest for a while, Christians. No one believes you anymore, so peddle you lies somewhere else.

DId you actually read the article?

I did. Please explain to me how a Hijab, which is a requirement of the Muslim faith, is the same as a cross, which some people simply choose to wear.

Millions and millions of muslim women don't wear the hijab. The only people who believe that it is a requirement of their faith are pro-Taliban.

I note from your Fark profile you live in Florida. I hope the FBI is monitoring this thread. You're a terrorist sympathiser.

*)

To deFBIilate any t-duh.

P.S. The FBI wouldn't touch me with a ten-foot pole, so please take my comment as jokingly jesting, see?

P.P.S. To pariah


I don't even.....

Anyway, when we read about an FBI agent that died of boredom then we'll know which one they assigned to watch me 24/7.
 
2013-01-05 07:21:17 AM  

Just Another OC Homeless Guy: Farking Canuck: He's a smart Atheist, so he doesn't need to. Something about osmosis and Silva Mind Control, or something...

You know ... every time you repeat that 'atheism is a religion' idiocy you prove we are smarter than you.

/do you really enjoy being considered as stupid as letrole?
Where did I say that? Please be specific.

(Do you always debate by putting words into other people's mouths?)


Well to be specific it was in the image you posted that said

"Atheism
A religion people join to apppear smarter"

(I would have posted the one that made me APPEAR smarter, not apppear). You should not post anything that you do not wish to be commented on. Remembering what you post is very handy when people refer to it later...

/not surprised you let a loophole into an 8 figure deal if you don`t even remember what you post on FARK
 
2013-01-05 07:28:59 AM  

cman: Banning religious articles is asinine.


Yet I always get grief for bringing Nagini, the Sacred Spitting Cobra, to my local supermarket...
 
2013-01-05 07:38:09 AM  
False equivalence is false.
 
2013-01-05 07:49:30 AM  
Nothing to add to this conversation, but...

"Does anybody know where I can get one of those necklaces with the 't'?"
"That would be a cross."
"Across from where?"
 
2013-01-05 08:39:37 AM  

IlGreven: s2s2s2: IlGreven: The only difference between a religion and a cult is

One follows an unseen super being, and the other follows a living person, or physical object found here on earth.

Most Protestant offshoots of Christianity follow living persons in addition to the unseen super being (Calvinism = John Calvin; Mormonism = Joseph Smith and Brigham Young; Jehovah's Witnesses = Charles Russell and Joe Rutherford, Adventism = William Miller, Methodism = John Wesley, Lutheran = Martin Luther, etc.) You could make arguments for JW's and Mormons being cults, but your definition puts Lutherism, Methodism, and Calvinism into cult status, too. Hell, even Christianity itself began by following a single living person, though they rolled a saving throw with the Nicene Creed, claiming that said living person was the unseen super being in disguise. Would you label all of Christendom a Cult, while labeling Scientology (which follows an unseen super being, as bespoken by a living person) a religion? If not, where's the line?

I reiterate: The only difference between a religion and a cult is size.


Unless you avail yourself of a dictionary, and care what words mean.
 
2013-01-05 09:00:25 AM  

uttertosh: huh? There is no place for religion in the STATE FUNDED education system


I don't think anyone has suggested the schools/state purchase these items, but the people who pay the state who pays the schools have every right to wear their shiat wherever they want. From the EU Convention on Human Rights(from which you cherry picked earlier):
The right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance[...]

The freedom to manifest one's religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.


You tell me how the security of the state is dependent upon removal of a scarf or a piece of jewelry. Please, so I can laugh at your nonsense some more. It IS your right! Of course, it is starting to look like the security and freedoms of others are under threat from you, and you should be silenced.
 
2013-01-05 09:05:29 AM  

Fart_Machine: Wearing a headscarf or a cross is pretty benign. Trying to claim discrimination based on having to work on Sunday is stupid.


As stupid as claiming discrimination for having to work during Muslim prayer time.
 
2013-01-05 09:11:10 AM  

Mattyb710: cman: Vodka Zombie: Please give the persecution bullshiat a rest for a while, Christians. No one believes you anymore, so peddle you lies somewhere else.

DId you actually read the article?

I did. Please explain to me how a Hijab, which is a requirement of the Muslim faith, is the same as a cross, which some people simply choose to wear.


That interpretation of Islam puts you in the same league as the Taliban.

The only requirement is modest dress. When you say the hijab is required you are siding with people that force women to wear it.
 
2013-01-05 09:29:24 AM  

Mike_1962: Uranus Is Huge!: uttertosh: cman: Why doesnt anyone from the Witangemoot simplify the constitution by putting it down in a uniformed constitution? UK constitution is made up of various shiat, but there is no clarity.

uttertosh: it's just not a powerpoint bullet list for ADhD children.

Man, you are really fired up about the uncodified nature of the UK constitution. Can you explain why you feel the need to lash out at anyone the questions this unusual characteristic?

Maybe because way to many people simply assume that if a constitution is not in the same general format as the American one it is somehow invalid or inferior. I don't believe you're one of them since many of your posts seem to be fairly well thought out, but Poe's law, being what it is, means that your post (obviously intended to be tongue in cheek) will be taken seriously by some of the more cognitively challenged. That can get irritating...just sayin'


utterdouche is doing a great job of making all sorts of assumptions about me based on a very mild, very old description of the UK constitution. I am by no means a worshipper of the US constitution. One need only read through the Bill of Rights to see how antiquated some of its provisions are. From what I've read, our neighbors to the north have a better model for other countries to emulate.

And if some European made a crack about quartering soldiers, you wouldn't see me get all butthurt and start insulting him. I really don't get the misdirected rage.
 
2013-01-05 09:30:58 AM  

s2s2s2: You tell me how the security of the state is dependent upon removal of a scarf or a piece of jewelry. Please, so I can laugh at your nonsense some more. It IS your right! Of course, it is starting to look like the security and freedoms of others are under threat from you, and you should be silenced


fine, ceremonial daggers for all.

If that person there gets to wear one to school, everyone can wear one to school. It's their right, yeah?

Don't you think?

It's called a uniform. One form for all. Not, 'I get special treatment above all others because Religion'. That's not what they're there for. We're talking equality here - another thing the EU is pretty vocal about. If it's just a head-covering, and so innocent, then why can't my son wear a hoodie in class, at all times, as his jedi teachings allow for. Why do you hate jedis? Biggot. My Rastafarian-jedi nephew should be allowed to bring in his lightsaberbong, too. Religious freedom. (smoking paraphernalia is not illegal in the uk)

See how it goes? School is one place that religious symbolism, regardless of faith, needs to kept out of.

Do you not see any benefit to this? No, after all it's just an innocent headscarf, right? Nothing disruptive about a headscarf. Why, even this morning I met the most polite headscarf. Let me pass by it without even as much as oppressing me. Headscarves, like jedi robes, and ceremonial daggers, are cool people. Just like crosses.
 
2013-01-05 09:34:32 AM  

EmmaLou: Hijabs are not signs of oppression. If you really think that, you haven't studied Islam in any detail or talked to a Muslim women about them. Wearing a scarf is completely up to the woman. Men cannot force their wives or daughters to wear them. If he does, that's abuse. All too often, people see the abusive Muslim men and just assume that it's that way across the entire Muslim world.


Hahaha!!!!
 
2013-01-05 09:43:21 AM  

IlGreven: The only difference between a religion and a cult is size.


i45.tinypic.com
 
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