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(Telegraph)   England: the legal reason we stop Christians from wearing crosses, but not Muslims from wearing hijabs is SHUT UP AND DO WHAT WE SAY   (blogs.telegraph.co.uk) divider line 284
    More: Dumbass, muslims, England, hijabs, headscarfs, religious discrimination  
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14321 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jan 2013 at 8:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-04 09:07:49 PM  

uttertosh: cman: If they want to liberate women,

point missed entirely. Nothing to do with women's lib. Everything to do with not allowing religious beliefs to interfere with non-segregation in the education system.


May FSM have mercy on my immortal soul, but I think ((oh it hurts to say this)) cman actually has a point.  It's a bit hard to tell through the incoherent ravings, but I THINK TFA was trying to say that the difference between "allowing" a nine-year-old girl to wear a headscarf to school and allowing an adult to wear a cross is that, while both are symbols of the wearer's devotion to their religion, the headscarf is problematic inasmuch as it represents Islam's subjugation of women (or, if not actual subjugation, at least the double standard radical Islam has in terms of proper dress).

Unfortunately, just as he was getting around to saying this, his brain locked up and he started yammering about pedophilia, and whatever valid point he may or may not have been about to actually articulate got strangled by the resulting derpstorm.
 
2013-01-04 09:07:55 PM  

Jaws_Victim: The hijab is an integral part of the muslim faith for women, it all ties into how their women are inferior and need to be coddled and kept away from the lustful eyes of their fathers and brothers. Crosses are something Christians can wear to show they are intolerant of your religion and are more pious than you are. They are so much like jesus they need to have a little cross of their own to show they are bearing YOUR sins for YOU, you filthy non jesus lover.


I like this analogy. Wear the hijab because in your culture men are one thin layer of cloth from raping you, wear the cross so everyone can know you are better than them.
 
2013-01-04 09:08:06 PM  

ko_kyi: There's no such thing as "Mandated"


okokok Religious Commandment. -semantics
 
2013-01-04 09:08:50 PM  

Mattyb710: cman: Vodka Zombie: Please give the persecution bullshiat a rest for a while, Christians. No one believes you anymore, so peddle you lies somewhere else.

DId you actually read the article?

I did. Please explain to me how a Hijab, which is a requirement of the Muslim faith, is the same as a cross, which some people simply choose to wear.


The author was defending the right of the child to wear the scarf
 
2013-01-04 09:08:50 PM  

s2s2s2: One follows an unseen super being, and the other follows a living person, or physical object found here on earth.


In a cult, the people at the top know that it is a scam.
In a religion, those people have died off.
 
2013-01-04 09:09:53 PM  
Oh, and Arab dudes? Trying to keep women from looking sexy by making them wear hijab, or even niqab? It's not working.

25.media.tumblr.com

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-04 09:10:04 PM  
Giving the kid a hard time at school is just going to make her have a hard time at home.
 
2013-01-04 09:10:29 PM  

ko_kyi: I like this analogy. Wear the hijab because in your culture men are one thin layer of cloth from raping you, wear the cross so everyone can know you are better than them


The cross is to remind rapists their victim will have to forgive them.


/did someone just turn up the heat?
 
2013-01-04 09:11:12 PM  
To bully
 
2013-01-04 09:12:42 PM  

ciberido: uttertosh: cman: If they want to liberate women,

point missed entirely. Nothing to do with women's lib. Everything to do with not allowing religious beliefs to interfere with non-segregation in the education system.

May FSM have mercy on my immortal soul, but I think ((oh it hurts to say this)) cman actually has a point.  It's a bit hard to tell through the incoherent ravings, but I THINK TFA was trying to say that the difference between "allowing" a nine-year-old girl to wear a headscarf to school and allowing an adult to wear a cross is that, while both are symbols of the wearer's devotion to their religion, the headscarf is problematic inasmuch as it represents Islam's subjugation of women (or, if not actual subjugation, at least the double standard radical Islam has in terms of proper dress).

Unfortunately, just as he was getting around to saying this, his brain locked up and he started yammering about pedophilia, and whatever valid point he may or may not have been about to actually articulate got strangled by the resulting derpstorm.


Granted, but the real reason is to stop religious segregation-based bullying from disrupting lessons within state funded schools, in a state that mandates that both should remain separate. That's what it boils down to when the derp has evaporated.
 
2013-01-04 09:13:35 PM  

0Icky0: In a cult, the people at the top know that it is a scam.
In a religion, those people have died off.


www.foundersofamerica.com
 
2013-01-04 09:13:58 PM  
'cos white Christians are far more likely to experience prejudice than black Muslims

Just like we all banned Christmas
 
2013-01-04 09:14:12 PM  

uttertosh: ciberido: uttertosh: cman: If they want to liberate women,

point missed entirely. Nothing to do with women's lib. Everything to do with not allowing religious beliefs to interfere with non-segregation in the education system.

May FSM have mercy on my immortal soul, but I think ((oh it hurts to say this)) cman actually has a point.  It's a bit hard to tell through the incoherent ravings, but I THINK TFA was trying to say that the difference between "allowing" a nine-year-old girl to wear a headscarf to school and allowing an adult to wear a cross is that, while both are symbols of the wearer's devotion to their religion, the headscarf is problematic inasmuch as it represents Islam's subjugation of women (or, if not actual subjugation, at least the double standard radical Islam has in terms of proper dress).

Unfortunately, just as he was getting around to saying this, his brain locked up and he started yammering about pedophilia, and whatever valid point he may or may not have been about to actually articulate got strangled by the resulting derpstorm.

Granted, but the real reason is to stop religious segregation-based bullying from disrupting lessons within state funded schools, in a state that mandates that both should remain separate. That's what it boils down to when the derp has evaporated.


To Quick
 
2013-01-04 09:15:28 PM  

Indubitably: uttertosh: ciberido: uttertosh: cman: If they want to liberate women,

point missed entirely. Nothing to do with women's lib. Everything to do with not allowing religious beliefs to interfere with non-segregation in the education system.

May FSM have mercy on my immortal soul, but I think ((oh it hurts to say this)) cman actually has a point.  It's a bit hard to tell through the incoherent ravings, but I THINK TFA was trying to say that the difference between "allowing" a nine-year-old girl to wear a headscarf to school and allowing an adult to wear a cross is that, while both are symbols of the wearer's devotion to their religion, the headscarf is problematic inasmuch as it represents Islam's subjugation of women (or, if not actual subjugation, at least the double standard radical Islam has in terms of proper dress).

Unfortunately, just as he was getting around to saying this, his brain locked up and he started yammering about pedophilia, and whatever valid point he may or may not have been about to actually articulate got strangled by the resulting derpstorm.

Granted, but the real reason is to stop religious segregation-based bullying from disrupting lessons within state funded schools, in a state that mandates that both should remain separate. That's what it boils down to when the derp has evaporated.

To Quick


There canna be only one...

*snikt*
 
2013-01-04 09:15:43 PM  
Wearing religious articles is benign. It should be allowed as long as there is no risk to safety. Working on Sundays? I've worked with people who wanted specific days of the week off for religious purposes. The test we used was impact on others; consequently, no accommodations were granted for days off on Saturday or Sunday. If you needed it off, you could find a trade or request leave.
 
2013-01-04 09:16:59 PM  

jamspoon: Just like we all banned Christmas


Even most self identifying christians would be annoyed if someone walked up to them on the 25th and said "ARE YOU EXCITED ABOUT CELEBRATING THE BIRTH OF OUR LORD?!", but I get the snark. Keep up the good work.
 
2013-01-04 09:17:19 PM  
When I was a waitress, Sunday was always the shiattiest day of the week to work. Extremely busy with post-church clientele who were very demanding and often inclined to leave religious tracts in lieu of tips.

Managers always asked in interviews if there were any days you couldn't work, and if you said Sunday, you wouldn't get the job.

And if you're that devoutly opposed to working on Sundays, shouldn't you be opposed to working for an employer who fails to keep the Sabbath holy by being open for business? Or maybe you just know that working on Sunday sucks and whipped out your handy dandy bullshiat excuse.
 
2013-01-04 09:18:07 PM  

Jaws_Victim: The hijab is an integral part of the muslim faith for women, it all ties into how their women are inferior and need to be coddled and kept away from the lustful eyes of their fathers and brothers. Crosses are something Christians can wear to show they are intolerant of your religion and are more pious than you are. They are so much like jesus they need to have a little cross of their own to show they are bearing YOUR sins for YOU, you filthy non jesus lover.



Ah bullshiat.

I have worked with many Christians (especially Latin Americans) that wore crosses / crucifixes as reminders of their commitment to their faith - not to shove their religion down someone else's throat.

/Some were careful to make the sign of the cross whenever passing a cathedral.
 
2013-01-04 09:18:21 PM  

Fart_Machine: Wearing a headscarf or a cross is pretty benign. Trying to claim discrimination based on having to work on Sunday is stupid.


Why is it stupid?  Not working on "the Sabbath" (which most Christians take to mean Sunday) is one of the Ten Commandments.  It's pretty fundamental to the religion.  In fact, Exodus commands that a "sabbath-breaker" be executed.  At one time it was against the law in more than one part of the USA to work on Sunday.  There are still laws in Germany even now against doing some things on Sunday.
 
2013-01-04 09:18:46 PM  

Indubitably: To Quick

There canna be only one...

*snikt*



Sorry, Did I manage mangle your language again..? Oh, the humanitarians.
 
2013-01-04 09:19:05 PM  
Wearing a hijab doesn't hurt anybody. It has no effect on any child's learning. Letting her wear it has exactly zero impact, so why not accommodate her religion?

Not being able to work on Sunday can be a problem for your employer; namely the fact that you aren't showing up and he has to get someone else to cover those hours.

As for the women who were told they can't wear crucifixes - well, the article conveniently didn't bother to say what their job was. If they were a janitor, it probably wouldn't be a problem. If they were a nurse then maybe it's a germ transfer hazard. Or if you're working in a industrial plant with moving equipment, then wearing a metal chain around your neck is a definite safety hazard.
 
2013-01-04 09:19:08 PM  

Amos Quito: Fart_Machine: Wearing a headscarf or a cross is pretty benign. Trying to claim discrimination based on having to work on Sunday is stupid.


Really? What about Shabbat for Jews?


2.bp.blogspot.com

/obligatory

And no, it still isn't.
 
2013-01-04 09:20:00 PM  
Take your jewelry off at work or deal with the consequences. Same for excess clothing. Or you know work for someone cool.
 
2013-01-04 09:20:53 PM  

Karac: Wearing a hijab doesn't hurt anybody. It has no effect on any child's learning. Letting her wear it has exactly zero impact, so why not accommodate her religion?

Not being able to work on Sunday can be a problem for your employer; namely the fact that you aren't showing up and he has to get someone else to cover those hours.

As for the women who were told they can't wear crucifixes - well, the article conveniently didn't bother to say what their job was. If they were a janitor, it probably wouldn't be a problem. If they were a nurse then maybe it's a germ transfer hazard. Or if you're working in a industrial plant with moving equipment, then wearing a metal chain around your neck is a definite safety hazard.


Will you stop being so calm and reasonable? There are people freaking out around here! The whole issue is whether or not there's a god and people's stupid devotion to something that doesn't exist, not whether they should be allowed to wear an article of clothing!
 
2013-01-04 09:21:13 PM  

mbillips: Oh, and Arab dudes? Trying to keep women from looking sexy by making them wear hijab, or even niqab? It's not working.

[25.media.tumblr.com image 466x677]

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 468x275]


Link
 
2013-01-04 09:21:39 PM  

Karac: Letting her wear it has exactly zero impact,


you parked your unicorn in the MLP spot again.
 
2013-01-04 09:24:32 PM  

s2s2s2: Mattyb710: which is a requirement of the Muslim faith

Is it? Are there no muslim females that do not wear it?


It always comes down to sects.


This. To say hijab is a requirement of Islam as a whole because some sects demand it is about as accurate as saying long hair on women is a requirement of Christianity as a whole because some sects demand it.
 
2013-01-04 09:24:42 PM  

Jaws_Victim: What kind of loony world does the author live in? Here is the last paragraph:

It is possible, therefore, to mount a reasonable defence of banning [hijab] in school. Sacking a Christian employee for expressing her faith in a modest and personal fashion, however, is indefensible, and the Government's position on that issue is shameful.

The hijab is an integral part of the muslim faith for women,


No it isn't. It's a bunch of Arab bullshiat. Until recently, no Muslim women in India, Bangladesh or Indonesia covered their hair, and even now it's a small minority. That's about 40 percent of the Muslim world right there. It's just a Bedouin cultural thang; they were hiding their women when Muhammsd was gleam in Abdullah's eye.
 
2013-01-04 09:25:03 PM  

Amos Quito: Jaws_Victim: The hijab is an integral part of the muslim faith for women, it all ties into how their women are inferior and need to be coddled and kept away from the lustful eyes of their fathers and brothers. Crosses are something Christians can wear to show they are intolerant of your religion and are more pious than you are. They are so much like jesus they need to have a little cross of their own to show they are bearing YOUR sins for YOU, you filthy non jesus lover.


Ah bullshiat.

I have worked with many Christians (especially Latin Americans) that wore crosses / crucifixes as reminders of their commitment to their faith - not to shove their religion down someone else's throat.

/Some were careful to make the sign of the cross whenever passing a cathedral.


I believe that is why Madonna wore a cross pretty frequently. Really helped her out too.
 
2013-01-04 09:25:46 PM  

0Icky0: s2s2s2: One follows an unseen super being, and the other follows a living person, or physical object found here on earth.

In a cult, the people at the top know that it is a scam.
In a religion, those people have died off.


Hmmm. Never looked at that way. I like it.
 
2013-01-04 09:27:18 PM  

ciberido: Fart_Machine: Wearing a headscarf or a cross is pretty benign. Trying to claim discrimination based on having to work on Sunday is stupid.

Why is it stupid?  Not working on "the Sabbath" (which most Christians take to mean Sunday) is one of the Ten Commandments.  It's pretty fundamental to the religion.  In fact, Exodus commands that a "sabbath-breaker" be executed.  At one time it was against the law in more than one part of the USA to work on Sunday.  There are still laws in Germany even now against doing some things on Sunday.


I've worked with plenty of Christians on a Sunday and none of them have been put to death or imprisoned. If it's a problem work for an employer who can accommodate your request.
 
2013-01-04 09:31:28 PM  

s2s2s2: ko_kyi:


/did someone just turn up the heat?


s7.postimage.org

I don't know, I'm feeling pretty hot here.
 
2013-01-04 09:31:41 PM  

Fart_Machine: I've worked with plenty of Christians on a Sunday and none of them have been put to death or imprisoned. If it's a problem work for an employer who can accommodate your request.


If it's a problem go to a school that can accommodate your request.
 
2013-01-04 09:31:59 PM  

s2s2s2: Mattyb710: which is a requirement of the Muslim faith

Is it? Are there no muslim females that do not wear it?


It always comes down to sects.


collider.com

"What is wrong with be secty?"
 
2013-01-04 09:32:16 PM  
This is clearly an actionable violation of all Britons 1st Amendment rights.
 
2013-01-04 09:32:36 PM  

Fart_Machine: ciberido: Fart_Machine:

I've worked with plenty of Christians on a Sunday and none of them have been put to death or imprisoned. If it's a problem work for an employer who can accommodate your request.


Hiring

i.huffpost.com
 
2013-01-04 09:32:59 PM  
Whar written constitution?

Whar?
 
2013-01-04 09:33:23 PM  

ciberido: Not working on "the Sabbath" (which most Christians take to mean Sunday


Most Christians are also unaware of history.
 
2013-01-04 09:34:33 PM  

uttertosh: Fart_Machine: I've worked with plenty of Christians on a Sunday and none of them have been put to death or imprisoned. If it's a problem work for an employer who can accommodate your request.

If it's a problem go to a school that can accommodate your request.


Well there you go. Schools aren't open on Sunday. Ta Da!
 
2013-01-04 09:35:25 PM  

mbillips: Fart_Machine: ciberido: Fart_Machine:

I've worked with plenty of Christians on a Sunday and none of them have been put to death or imprisoned. If it's a problem work for an employer who can accommodate your request.

Hiring

[i.huffpost.com image 570x238]


Don't think they have any in the UK.
 
2013-01-04 09:35:29 PM  

uttertosh: Indubitably: To Quick

There canna be only one...

*snikt*


Sorry, Did I manage mangle your language again..? Oh, the humanitarians.


No.

You just managed to steal it.

Credit and all.

Well-played.
 
2013-01-04 09:36:05 PM  

Indubitably: uttertosh: Indubitably: To Quick

There canna be only one...

*snikt*


Sorry, Did I manage mangle your language again..? Oh, the humanitarians.

No.

You just managed to steal it.

Credit and all.

Well-played.


To school
 
2013-01-04 09:36:44 PM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Relatively Obscure: A nine-year-old girl from south London has been forbidden from wearing her hijab
[...]
Which leads us to draw the inevitable comparison to
[...]
the Christian Baptist who was sacked for refusing to work

These two things do seem identical.

This. (assuming sarcasm)

As usual, Christians feels discriminated because they can't impose their religion on someone else, while at the same time discriminating against another faith for doing something that affects no one else.
"What do you mean I can't put stone monuments carved with the ten commandments in front of the courthouse? You don't eat Skittles because gelatin is made with pork fat!"


While not disagreeing with you in principle let's not compare apples with oranges.

In regards to religion tolerance I can say (and so can you if you're honest} 'Christian' nations are a LOT more tolerant of other religions than 'Muslim' nations are of non Islamic religions. I can guarantee you a Muslim in UK, US etc has 1000X more freedom to practice their faith despite ocasional derp from individuals than a say a Christian or Buddhist practicing the same in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and most other Muslim countries.
 
2013-01-04 09:39:48 PM  
As long as there not trying to ram there faith down my throat. Let them wear what they want.
 
2013-01-04 09:45:59 PM  

ciberido: Fart_Machine: Wearing a headscarf or a cross is pretty benign. Trying to claim discrimination based on having to work on Sunday is stupid.

Why is it stupid?  Not working on "the Sabbath" (which most Christians take to mean Sunday) is one of the Ten Commandments.  It's pretty fundamental to the religion.  In fact, Exodus commands that a "sabbath-breaker" be executed.  At one time it was against the law in more than one part of the USA to work on Sunday.  There are still laws in Germany even now against doing some things on Sunday.


Such an execution would be verbotten here in the United States. By any standard, it is a vicious violation of individual liberties. Further, someone else's religious beliefs should hold no more weight than my personal, non-religious beliefs. Imagining that one's values came from an imaginary sky god does not make them any more sacred than rationally-decided ones.

But that's not why wearing crosses is stupid (though it is stupid). Also not why wearing burkas is stupid (though it is stupid).
 
2013-01-04 09:48:25 PM  
The fact is that wearing a cross to work, or arranging one's shifts so that one doesn't have to work on Sundays, is wholly benign and understandable.

So it's bad to prevent a kid from wearing a scarf in school, but it's ok to be able to dictate to your employer when you're going to work. Sweet deal.
 
2013-01-04 09:48:42 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: This is clearly an actionable violation of all Britons 1st Amendment rights.


Uranus Is Huge!: Whar written constitution?

Whar?


HAR CONSARUSHUNZ HAR ERMERGHERD.

stfu.
 
2013-01-04 09:49:07 PM  
us.123rf.com

If you want to wear a cross wear, it like you mean it you pussies.
 
2013-01-04 09:49:37 PM  

MisterTweak: I'm 100% okay with them wearing crosses. I'll even pass the hat to help buy the tools to help speed up the wearing process.


But is that gun-powdah activatid?
i29.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-04 09:51:12 PM  

Fart_Machine: Well there you go. Schools aren't open on Sunday. Ta Da!


Sunday School is. Won't see many hijabs there, mind.
 
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