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(MSNBC)   Private prison is charging thousands of dollars for rule infractions like "an unkempt appearance and not making eye contact." I'm sorry. Did I say prison? I meant Charter School   (tv.msnbc.com) divider line 129
    More: Scary, private prisons, misdemeanors, Melissa Harris-Perry, charter schools, broken windows  
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9225 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Jan 2013 at 12:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-04 05:11:21 PM
The parents of one teenager, writes Traci Lee, had to pay close to $2,000 in fines for infractions including "an unkempt appearance and not making eye contact."

The fark?!


 Noble raked in approximately $200,000 in disciplinary fees in 2011 and almost $400,000 since the 2008-09 school year.

Ahhh.... Follow the money.


Such rules preserve order by targeting potential troublemakers and punishing them into submission before they have the chance to do anything which would actually harm the community.

Oh, I see. There's a heaping helping of good old authoritarian abuse of power thrown in, just for fun.

Bastards.
 
2013-01-04 05:13:47 PM
Fuk yea privatization.
 
2013-01-04 05:23:54 PM

tricycleracer: Fuk yea privatization.


I'm sure there are people out there who would actually cheer this 'privatization' that's funded through public tax dollars.
 
2013-01-04 05:48:09 PM

Runs_With_Scissors_: The parents of one teenager, writes Traci Lee, had to pay close to $2,000 in fines for infractions including "an unkempt appearance and not making eye contact."

The fark?!


 Noble raked in approximately $200,000 in disciplinary fees in 2011 and almost $400,000 since the 2008-09 school year.

Ahhh.... Follow the money.


Such rules preserve order by targeting potential troublemakers and punishing them into submission before they have the chance to do anything which would actually harm the community.

Oh, I see. There's a heaping helping of good old authoritarian abuse of power thrown in, just for fun.

Bastards.


Done in one.
 
2013-01-04 06:36:43 PM

Runs_With_Scissors_: tricycleracer: Fuk yea privatization.

I'm sure there are people out there who would actually cheer this 'privatization' that's funded through public tax dollars.


Somehow they actually believe Reagan's quip that the worst words in the english language are "I'm from the Government and am here to help." All while drinking their clean water, driving on their level roads, sleeping in their inspected homes, eating their inspected foods, feeling safe because of the police and military.
 
2013-01-04 07:33:57 PM
If only there was a way to not send your child to a charter school...
 
2013-01-04 07:56:22 PM
"If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding!Howcan you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?!"
 
2013-01-04 08:53:12 PM
Welcome to 1973.
 
2013-01-04 08:54:19 PM
Or, rather:

IF YOU DON'T EAT YOUR MEAT, YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY PUDDING! HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YOUR MEAT!?!??
 
2013-01-04 08:55:14 PM

alienated: "If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding!Howcan you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?!"


BOY does it help to read the f*cking thread when it's only 7 posts long. :/
 
2013-01-04 08:56:57 PM
Enjoy it, America. You certainly couldn't wait to shove "school reform" down everyone's throats.
 
2013-01-04 08:59:56 PM

xanadian: alienated: "If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding!Howcan you have any pudding if you don't eat yer meat?!"

BOY does it help to read the f*cking thread when it's only 7 posts long. :/


;)
 
2013-01-04 10:03:33 PM
The NFL and NBA have charter schools?
 
2013-01-04 10:58:33 PM
You sign the documents, you follow the rules.

Buyer beware.

Nobody forced them to send their kid there.
 
2013-01-04 11:02:46 PM
My colleagues and I saw this coming 12 years ago with NCLB. There was a huge push to take the Arizona model nationwide. At the time, Arizona had more charter schools than the rest of the country COMBINED. We, the public education teachers, who have a toothless union in a right-to-fire state, tried to warn people. This is a bad, bad, bad, bad idea.

Nope. You guys ran with it. Good luck with your mess. I swear to god, we tried to stop it here. You have George W. Bush and Lisa Graham Keegan to thank for this crap.
 
2013-01-04 11:40:38 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: My colleagues and I saw this coming 12 years ago with NCLB. There was a huge push to take the Arizona model nationwide. At the time, Arizona had more charter schools than the rest of the country COMBINED. We, the public education teachers, who have a toothless union in a right-to-fire state, tried to warn people. This is a bad, bad, bad, bad idea.

Nope. You guys ran with it. Good luck with your mess. I swear to god, we tried to stop it here. You have George W. Bush and Lisa Graham Keegan to thank for this crap.


The charter schools around here fight over everything. I go nuts when I have to deal with them.
 
2013-01-04 11:46:01 PM

namegoeshere: If only there was a way to not send your child to a charter school...


If only there was a way to prevent charter schools from bleeding money from public ones...
 
2013-01-05 12:06:49 AM
I seem to recall schools being a place of discipline back in them thar early days...and kids being better for it. Don't like it? Don't send your kids to a charter school.
 
2013-01-05 12:07:47 AM
FTFA: If a kids' unruly behavior puts a significant financial burden on his parents, you can bet those parents will do everything they can to get their son in line

DING DING DING Because girls are *never* unruly.
 
2013-01-05 12:08:24 AM
I'm betting those administrators also sit on HOAs in their spare time.
 
2013-01-05 12:09:05 AM
Eh... and?
 
2013-01-05 12:10:26 AM
Welcome home, TeaBaggers. You wanted to emulate the Silver Brigades, now you get what they promised you.
 
2013-01-05 12:11:07 AM
To diff
 
2013-01-05 12:13:26 AM
There are a great number of things that government does better than private business.
 
2013-01-05 12:16:18 AM
Sorta reaping what they've sown, isn't it? The per pupil dollars keep going down, the charter schools are paid the same amount as the real schools, so they've got to pay their board members and stock holders somehow.
 
2013-01-05 12:17:14 AM
If you don't want your children to be subject to a higher standard; don't send them to a chartered/private school.

If you don't want to be subject to fines; don't sign the form that says you understand the school's rules and agree to abide by them.

/ you, 100%, have a choice as to where your child goes to school
 
2013-01-05 12:18:55 AM

Runs_With_Scissors_: The parents of one teenager, writes Traci Lee, had to pay close to $2,000 in fines for infractions including "an unkempt appearance and not making eye contact."

The fark?!


 Noble raked in approximately $200,000 in disciplinary fees in 2011 and almost $400,000 since the 2008-09 school year.

Ahhh.... Follow the money.


Such rules preserve order by targeting potential troublemakers and punishing them into submission before they have the chance to do anything which would actually harm the community.

Oh, I see. There's a heaping helping of good old authoritarian abuse of power thrown in, just for fun.

Bastards.


slow_clap.gif
 
2013-01-05 12:20:11 AM
It sounds like a school being run by an HOA.
 
2013-01-05 12:21:58 AM

iheartscotch: If you don't want your children to be subject to a higher standard; don't send them to a chartered/private school.

If you don't want to be subject to fines; don't sign the form that says you understand the school's rules and agree to abide by them.

/ you, 100%, have a choice as to where your child goes to school


This.

Stupid parents, or parents who can afford it and still think the charter is the choice.

No problems here.
 
2013-01-05 12:22:25 AM
So in other words, rich kids can simply purchase insubordination. I wonder what the going rate to give a nerd a swirly is.
 
2013-01-05 12:22:33 AM
I remember being told by city officials in Chicago that we needed charter schools because local public schools are too burden by regulations to effectively educate today's youth. When I asked why we just couldn't free local schools from the excess regulations no one was ever able to give me a adequate answer.
 
2013-01-05 12:23:19 AM

detritus: So in other words, rich kids can simply purchase insubordination. I wonder what the going rate to give a nerd a swirly is.


Oh, they get a pass if they're on the football team.
 
2013-01-05 12:24:54 AM

Deathfrogg: detritus: So in other words, rich kids can simply purchase insubordination. I wonder what the going rate to give a nerd a swirly is.


Oh, they get a pass if they're on the football team.


Or if their daddy sits on the board.
 
2013-01-05 12:26:12 AM
If they turn out a significantly higher number of kids that successfully graduate college, I'd wager people would be significantly less outraged. As some people have mentioned, no one is forcing the parents to send their kids there. I know I wouldn't. But I have my kids enrolled in a home-based charter, and I'm pretty damned glad to have the option considering the schools around here are the shiattiest of the shiat.

Also, I may be totally off base here, but when I read this: The parents of one teenager, writes Traci Lee, had to pay close to $2,000 in fines for infractions including "an unkempt appearance and not making eye contact."
,


...I have to wonder what the other infractions were. Say, for example, $1500 was for participating in a physical fight with another student. $200 was for behaving in a defiant manner while being questioned/lectured, like refusing to make eye contact. It wouldn't be the first time critical information was left out of an article.
 
2013-01-05 12:26:31 AM

iheartscotch: If you don't want your children to be subject to a higher standard; don't send them to a chartered/private school.

If you don't want to be subject to fines; don't sign the form that says you understand the school's rules and agree to abide by them.

/ you, 100%, have a choice as to where your child goes to school


And that's the shiat of it..... these kids will stay in the local public high schools in higher conc. then before.....they'll look all the worse in comparison to charter schools and give more ammunition to those who are trying to privatize US education.
 
2013-01-05 12:27:04 AM
Charter schools should be farking illegal. If we as a society believe in public education, we should fix standard old public schools and require everyone to send their kids to them with NO exceptions. If not, fine -- just privatize education entirely and see how that works for ya. But "go to school wherever you want, for money" is not how the current system is supposed to work.
 
2013-01-05 12:30:14 AM

iheartscotch: you, 100%, have a choice as to where your child goes to school


Explain how this works for me, the childless taxpayer, who has 100% no choice in funding this shiat.
 
2013-01-05 12:30:26 AM

Smackledorfer: iheartscotch: If you don't want your children to be subject to a higher standard; don't send them to a chartered/private school.

If you don't want to be subject to fines; don't sign the form that says you understand the school's rules and agree to abide by them.

/ you, 100%, have a choice as to where your child goes to school

This.

Stupid parents, or parents who can afford it and still think the charter is the choice.

No problems here.


The only stupid here is the morons that voted for the idiots who pass and sign charter school legislation.
 
2013-01-05 12:31:11 AM
I sent my kids to public school for one year while I struggled with a high-strung toddler at home, and I can think of one particular precious snowflake that I would have taken malicious pleasure in knowing her daddy was getting charged out the ass because she refused to act like anything less than a demon.
 
2013-01-05 12:32:00 AM

teeny: If they turn out a significantly higher number of kids that successfully graduate college, I'd wager people would be significantly less outraged


These type of schools have excellent college acceptance rates.... however their college graduation rates are a different story. At the KIPP schools only one third of 8th graders enrolled at KIPP graduated from college ten years later.
 
2013-01-05 12:33:13 AM

Arthur Jumbles: I remember being told by city officials in Chicago that we needed charter schools because local public schools are too burden by regulations to effectively educate today's youth. When I asked why we just couldn't free local schools from the excess regulations no one was ever able to give me a adequate answer.


I can give you an adequate answer. They can't free the public schools from the heavy regulations because that would require them to actually DO some aspect of the job they were elected to do, rather than a) campaigning for re-election and b) fund-raising for their next re-election campaign.
 
2013-01-05 12:35:19 AM

Arthur Jumbles: iheartscotch: If you don't want your children to be subject to a higher standard; don't send them to a chartered/private school.

If you don't want to be subject to fines; don't sign the form that says you understand the school's rules and agree to abide by them.

/ you, 100%, have a choice as to where your child goes to school

And that's the shiat of it..... these kids will stay in the local public high schools in higher conc. then before.....they'll look all the worse in comparison to charter schools and give more ammunition to those who are trying to privatize US education.


The problem always is; the better programs, inexplicably, draw better/more wealthy students. And thus, perform more favorably when compared with public schools.

Sometimes, I wonder if the solution is to allow students who do not want to be educated to drop out at an earlier age; thus relieving the education system of the burden of educating them.

/ not often though
 
2013-01-05 12:36:40 AM

Arthur Jumbles: teeny: If they turn out a significantly higher number of kids that successfully graduate college, I'd wager people would be significantly less outraged

These type of schools have excellent college acceptance rates.... however their college graduation rates are a different story. At the KIPP schools only one third of 8th graders enrolled at KIPP graduated from college ten years later.


And what's the going rate for the average public school?
 
2013-01-05 12:36:41 AM
ITT: retards complain about 'privatization'

the only 'private' thing about charters is that they have a different governance structure. instead of a 'school board' they have a 'board' of non-profit people.

in a few states they're given statutory breaks from certain regulations. by and large, it's a meaningless distinction.

they are still government-run, government schools

this isn't about 'evil capitalism' this is about government itself finding new ways to suck funds out of the public.

which is seen in efforts locally to install parking meters everywhere, red-light cameras, and on national levels with inflation, death tax, asset bubbles, and the like.

at least with charters you can opt to go to the traditional public school if you don't want the fines.

the problem is that our elected officials, judges and entire government system is failing the common person.

there should be more options than just 'charters' for k-12 education as an issue of school reform. When charters are presented as the 'good school' and TPS are the 'normal schools' - then all you have, in effect, is yet another state-run monopoly. this kind of bad behavior by charters happens because they know parents lack any other option.
 
2013-01-05 12:38:29 AM

Arthur Jumbles: I remember being told by city officials in Chicago that we needed charter schools because local public schools are too burden by regulations to effectively educate today's youth. When I asked why we just couldn't free local schools from the excess regulations no one was ever able to give me a adequate answer.


Gimme a U...
 
2013-01-05 12:40:01 AM
It's easy for chater

teeny: If they turn out a significantly higher number of kids that successfully graduate college, I'd wager people would be significantly less outraged


It's easy for charter schools to look better than public schools on paper because they can choose who they accept, making for strong selection bias.
 
2013-01-05 12:40:40 AM

Telephone Sanitizer Second Class: iheartscotch: you, 100%, have a choice as to where your child goes to school

Explain how this works for me, the childless taxpayer, who has 100% no choice in funding this shiat.


As a parent of an imaginary child, you have the choice to homeschool, send to public school or send to chartered/private school.

/ think about it this way; you are paying education insurance based on the possibility that you may have a child some day that requires an education
 
2013-01-05 12:41:13 AM

Witty_Retort: Smackledorfer: iheartscotch: If you don't want your children to be subject to a higher standard; don't send them to a chartered/private school.

If you don't want to be subject to fines; don't sign the form that says you understand the school's rules and agree to abide by them.

/ you, 100%, have a choice as to where your child goes to school

This.

Stupid parents, or parents who can afford it and still think the charter is the choice.

No problems here.

The only stupid here is the morons that voted for the idiots who pass and sign charter school legislation.


Ok yes, there is that.
 
2013-01-05 12:43:22 AM
Did I say Charter School? I meant local attempt at union busting that provides no additional benefit to students.
 
2013-01-05 12:44:00 AM

namegoeshere: If only there was a way to not send your child to a charter school...


You beat me to it. There's always the option of the standard old failing public school system. I'll admit that "no eye contact" is over the top, but I think the current public school system is largely an educational failure due in large part to the teachers' union, at leat where i live. Ideally I'll be able to afford private school when the time comes. We shall see, as my first kid just turned 2.
 
2013-01-05 12:48:58 AM
I would've racked up thousands in fees at this place... Mainly because I'm unable to make eye contact due to various anxiety issues. Although they might have considered making an exception for me if lawyers came calling...

/Chicago's schools are a joke, sadly
 
2013-01-05 12:49:41 AM

iheartscotch: Sometimes, I wonder if the solution is to allow students who do not want to be educated to drop out at an earlier age; thus relieving the education system of the burden of educating them.


They could even be promised a decent wage paying job as a cosmetics of pharmaceuticals lab animal...

Sounds like a win/win to me
 
2013-01-05 12:54:06 AM
Prison, charter school, po-TAY-to, po-TAH-to
 
2013-01-05 12:54:09 AM

RatMaster999: iheartscotch: Sometimes, I wonder if the solution is to allow students who do not want to be educated to drop out at an earlier age; thus relieving the education system of the burden of educating them.

They could even be promised a decent wage paying job as a cosmetics of pharmaceuticals lab animal...

Sounds like a win/win to me


I'd agree to that; I'd also add, be responsible for sniffing printer cartridges and propositioning gale in accounting with a phallus made out of shipping boxes.

/ possibly for making their own pine cone liquor.

// can't be obscure
 
2013-01-05 12:55:11 AM

Fade2black: I seem to recall schools being a place of discipline back in them thar early days...and kids being better for it. Don't like it? Don't send your kids to a charter school.


Other than an occasional bake sale or book drive the school didn't shake you down back then either...
 
2013-01-05 12:59:01 AM
No indication of how many schools are actually guilty of doing this. Just that charter schools in Chicago are doing it. Which could mean one of them or all of them. Also, this seems like an easy fix. Just write a law that prohibits them from doing it anymore or limits the fines to a much more reasonable level and makes sure the infractions are actually real infractions.

So basically it was a crappy article by a pro-union hack.
 
2013-01-05 01:19:39 AM
Remember, the invisible hand of the market just means that these parents will send their kids to another school, thus forcing competition, which will mean better schools for everyone!
 
2013-01-05 01:31:46 AM
*Reads article looking for where people are forced to send their kids to this school*

*Doesn't find it*

If you don't want to pay the fines either
1) Don't put your kid in the school
2) Make your kid behave

Very simple
 
2013-01-05 01:43:34 AM

Nadie_AZ: omehow they actually believe Reagan's quip that the worst words in the english language are "I'm from the Government and am here to help." All while drinking their clean water, driving on their level roads, sleeping in their inspected homes, eating their inspected foods, feeling safe because of the police and military.


thank you.
 
2013-01-05 01:46:33 AM

mwfark: namegoeshere: If only there was a way to not send your child to a charter school...

You beat me to it. There's always the option of the standard old failing public school system. I'll admit that "no eye contact" is over the top, but I think the current public school system is largely an educational failure due in large part to the teachers' union, at leat where i live. Ideally I'll be able to afford private school when the time comes. We shall see, as my first kid just turned 2.


See that's funny. Where I live we have one of the strongest teachers unions and some of the best public schools in the country.

See, we pay our teachers well, so educated, smart, professional, people take the jobs, and our children learn.

But then again, we have a lot more in common up here with Canada than a place like Alabama, so obviously we're doing a lot of things horribly wrong.

Hope you're enjoying our tax dollars down there!
 
2013-01-05 01:46:44 AM

Nadie_AZ: Runs_With_Scissors_: tricycleracer: Fuk yea privatization.

I'm sure there are people out there who would actually cheer this 'privatization' that's funded through public tax dollars.

Somehow they actually believe Reagan's quip that the worst words in the english language are "I'm from the Government and am here to help." All while drinking their clean water, driving on their level roads, sleeping in their inspected homes, eating their inspected foods, feeling safe because of the police and military.


Here I am. Pants off, lubed up, got my picture of Reagan sitting here. I'm thinking about unions getting busted and the EPA getting dissolved... visualizing no-bid contracts to corporations so they can fill roles the government used to only without job-killing regulation, oversight...oh god just thinking of all those misappropriated tax dollars profits...  so close to climax.. I can see the Pelosi tears...oh OH

and then you have to come along and ruin the whole thing. Like a cold shower.

You 47%ers just don't get REAL America. You should all go marry Europe and Muslims since you love em so much. And take the Department of Education and Obama and the teachers unions with you! You just don't understand how great it would be if everything was for profit.

fark charter schools. fark for-profit schools period. Just look at colleges! They are so efficient and cost-effective, right? Lowering cost for students, improving the value of degrees... oh wait

And I can't help but wonder if there is their end game. Why wait for college for your indentured servitude to student loans? ABC Corporation is accepting enrollment to your towns Elementary Charter. Only $10k/semester ($25k/sem after 4th grade, $55k for college oriented high school semesters)... if you can't afford it we can get you loan approval! Just sign here.
What?
You're having second thoughts?
I mean, the only alternative is public schools, and believe me... you don't want to see what those will look like when our lobbyists get done with Congress.
 
2013-01-05 01:46:53 AM

CujoQuarrel: *Reads article looking for where people are forced to send their kids to this school*

*Doesn't find it*

If you don't want to pay the fines either
1) Don't put your kid in the school
2) Make your kid behave

Very simple


Exactly the same approach one should take about Homeowners Associations

*Reads article looking for where people are forced to buy a house in the HOA neighborhood*

*Doesn't find it*

If you don't want to pay the fines either
1) Don't buy a house in a HOA controlled neighborhood
2) Follow the rules and behave

Simple
 
2013-01-05 01:49:58 AM
So many in this thread don't understand the utter clusterfark that is the Chicago Public School system. The school board is appointed by the mayor, who is also the head of CPS. Rahm don't mind selling out poor kids, as long as his cronies can get tons of public money and bust the teachers' union at the same time.

Remember that strike in September? The union had to fight for kids to all get textbooks on the first day of school.

farking Rahm. He disgusts me.
 
2013-01-05 01:51:01 AM
Sounds a lot like extortion to me.
 
2013-01-05 01:52:55 AM
When I was a child I had a terrible time making eye-contact with anyone [let alone scary authority figures]. This was probably because of my undiagnosed autism. I think this school should take the child's individual neurology into account before condemning them for things that they cannot help.
 
2013-01-05 01:57:54 AM
iheartscotch

And thus, perform more favorably when compared with public schools.

Conservatives, for whatever reason, seem to assume that it is the school that produces good students. The biggest effect of this might be that students would be less likely to fall in with a bad crowd in a private school. However, the bad crowds still exist, and it seems that performance would in either case depend far more on the student and parents than on the school.

Sometimes, I wonder if the solution is to allow students who do not want to be educated to drop out at an earlier age; thus relieving the education system of the burden of educating them.

I think it would be better if we had a more general and practical curriculum for the underachievers, rather than just letting them out. Sadly, things like multiple specialized curricula and qualified teachers make your solution a lot cheaper and more practical.
 
2013-01-05 01:59:04 AM

Asa Phelps: You sign the documents, you follow the rules.

Buyer beware.

Nobody forced them to send their kid there.


Maybe so, but I have to wonder: DID the documents and rules in fact say: Students shall make eye contact with adults when being spoken to? This isn't one of those nitpicky lawyerly things--if you're going to charge money and discipline students for breaking the rules, they have to know in advance what the rules are. Principals and teachers can't go making them up as they go along. So DO the rules ACTUALLY say kids must always make eye contact? Do they define what an "unkempt appearance" is? Or are the administrators just using this as a way to rake in the bucks by inventing issues as they find them?

"I said look at me when I'm talking to you! That'll be $500! Oh, now you're crying? That's $50 per tear on your uniform! Nobody told you that damp spots on your uniform constitutes an 'unkempt appearance'? Another $500! Oh, and $1000 for making me raise my voice above 90 decibels!"
 
2013-01-05 01:59:49 AM

Gwendolyn: ecmoRandomNumbers: My colleagues and I saw this coming 12 years ago with NCLB. There was a huge push to take the Arizona model nationwide. At the time, Arizona had more charter schools than the rest of the country COMBINED. We, the public education teachers, who have a toothless union in a right-to-fire state, tried to warn people. This is a bad, bad, bad, bad idea.

Nope. You guys ran with it. Good luck with your mess. I swear to god, we tried to stop it here. You have George W. Bush and Lisa Graham Keegan to thank for this crap.

The charter schools around here fight over everything. I go nuts when I have to deal with them.


I feel you. It's hell. You'd think that teachers should have some say in your kid's curriculum, even when it goes to the SPED, IEP Level. Nope. You're just "the classroom teacher."

So what happens now is your kid, who by all accounts is probably just a normal kid, goes through a battery of tests, educational and psychological. And hand to God, I saw a kid in an office doing Rorschach tests. So now your kid gets labeled with the SPED tag. From now until graduation, he'll be Special Ed. He'll have an IEP which will be monitored by the STATE. And I put STATE in capital letters on purpose. His regular classroom teachers won't be able to assign a grade, or even take the kid on a farking field trip without multiple signatures or a table full of "leaders."

This is completely NUTS, of course, but public education runs by the doctrine of "least restrictive environment." That's where we went off course. I became a big Liberal when I got into public education, but I loathe a lot of our restrictions. Sometimes a teacher just needs the ability to shake a kid a few times and say, "Knock it off!" Seriously. Kids are smart, and they know how to work the System.
 
2013-01-05 02:00:09 AM
Watch me sum up that whole article.

"Public teachers unions, like all unions, hate any form of competition and will do everything they can to stamp it out so they are the only choice. Here we have found a stick to whack Charter Schools with on their behalf."
 
2013-01-05 02:03:18 AM
my mom has been, for the last 25 years, an elementary school teacher in one of the best public school systems in the country. the system is in one of the wealthiest counties in the nation. the school in which she teaches is roughly 85% upper middle class and 15% less than that [fark stat approximation].

the unifying factor in the kids who failed? kids with parents that don't give more than lip service (if even that) to education in front of their kids - economic situation, ethnicity, single parent/two parent family had nothing to do with success. it was about the level of commitment.

like a previous post said - selection bias. this charter school bs is just that. keep blaming the unions, the school systems, the schools themselves...please see above.
 
2013-01-05 02:15:34 AM

iheartscotch: If you don't want your children to be subject to a higher standard; don't send them to a chartered/private school.

If you don't want to be subject to fines; don't sign the form that says you understand the school's rules and agree to abide by them.

/ you, 100%, have a choice as to where your child goes to school


"higher standard"? where I live the public schools outperform the charter/private schools in everything from education to athletics......so what higher standard are you referring to? uniforms?
 
2013-01-05 02:34:13 AM
Pffffft...

The REAL reason they have fines? So they can kick kids out who arent scoring well on the standardized tests.

Little Johnny is bringing our average down to where we're going to lose funding? Well, Little Johnny is being disrespectful, so we'll fine him $500.

Pretty soon, Little Johnny is on the hook for 10 dimes, and the Charter School says, "Well, pull your kid out of our school, and we'll dismiss the fines".

The school gets rid of an underperforming student, which gives the school a better rating. And the parents of all the students are happy.

/The Aristocrats!
 
2013-01-05 02:37:16 AM

Dear Jerk: There are a great number of things that government does better than private business.


Kill brown people is #1
 
2013-01-05 02:44:58 AM
Yo dawg, I heard you like the police state, so I put a police state in your police state.
 
2013-01-05 02:55:08 AM

Mad Canadian: So they can kick kids out who arent scoring well on the standardized tests.


Also so they can kick out poor kids.
 
2013-01-05 03:00:38 AM

Loucifer: It sounds like a school being run by an HOA.


Privatization always brings the little Napoleons who wish to rule unchecked and unencumbered by things like accountability or transparency.
 
2013-01-05 03:09:05 AM

Macular Degenerate: FTFA: If a kids' unruly behavior puts a significant financial burden on his parents, you can bet those parents will do everything they can to get their son in line

DING DING DING Because girls are *never* unruly.


As someone that went to a Catholic grade school at one point, yeah, that's pretty much entirely how it works.

//but in this case it may just be a school that's not coed.
 
2013-01-05 03:09:42 AM
Wow... soooooooooo much butthurt in this thread.

Starting with the first word of the headline... and all the way through.
 
2013-01-05 03:14:42 AM

Winston Smith '84: If you don't want to pay the fines either
1) Don't buy a house in a HOA controlled neighborhood
2) Follow the rules and behave


Try doing that in an 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% HOA controlled area - especially where charter schools are. The choice simply doesn't exist, and the HOA's(and charter schools) are run with the full knowledge of the lack of practical alternatives - which gives the same effect as traditionally defined forms of force.

In both cases, you get people that use the private status to go on a power trip just because they're some form of "untouchable" while useful idiots such as yourself end up defending the lack of choice that it gives.
 
2013-01-05 03:25:04 AM

Nadie_AZ: Runs_With_Scissors_: tricycleracer: Fuk yea privatization.

I'm sure there are people out there who would actually cheer this 'privatization' that's funded through public tax dollars.

Somehow they actually believe Reagan's quip that the worst words in the english language are "I'm from the Government and am here to help." All while drinking their clean water, driving on their level roads, sleeping in their inspected homes, eating their inspected foods, feeling safe because of the police and military.


you are hilarious.
 
2013-01-05 03:29:42 AM
FTA: "The parents of one teenager, writes Traci Lee, had to pay close to $2,000 in fines for infractions including "an unkempt appearance and not making eye contact.""

FTA cited in TFA: "Godard said her son, Tavonta Gray, 16, had been suspended 15 times. Held back as a freshman last year, he was required to take a summer behavioral session in order to return this year-at a cost of $1,400. Godard estimated he has also rung up about $300 in fines this year along with additional ones last year."

That's pretty much the exact same thing huh?
 
2013-01-05 03:37:20 AM

Morning Coffee: So many in this thread don't understand the utter clusterfark that is the Chicago Public School system. The school board is appointed by the mayor, who is also the head of CPS. Rahm don't mind selling out poor kids, as long as his cronies can get tons of public money and bust the teachers' union at the same time.

Remember that strike in September? The union had to fight for kids to all get textbooks on the first day of school.

farking Rahm. He disgusts me.


THIS

Rahm is shutting down over 100 public schools in Chicago and they're slowly being replaced by charter schools. So all those who are saying people have a choice as to where to send their kids, well the mayor is trying to make it so there won't be any or many choices. Charter schools aren't a better education, they are a money making scheme. I know there's not a lot of sympathy for teachers on fark, but there will be hundreds of them who will be laid off due to this. The ones who do get hired by charter schools have no union protection, get paid significantly less, and have miserable jobs. It's not just the students who can get written, it's also the teachers (and for really minor things). Rahm put someone in charge of the Chicago Public School System who had NO background in education. He was a businessman. That should tell you all you need to know about what sort of agenda he has for the schools in the city.
 
2013-01-05 04:04:12 AM

red5ish: Sounds a lot like extortion to me.


Is it extortion if you agree to something and then they enforce it? No
The school is not forcing you to send your kids there. You agreed to their terms. If you don't like their terms then , duh!, don't send your kids to that school.
 
2013-01-05 04:10:05 AM

PillsHere: Morning Coffee: So many in this thread don't understand the utter clusterfark that is the Chicago Public School system. The school board is appointed by the mayor, who is also the head of CPS. Rahm don't mind selling out poor kids, as long as his cronies can get tons of public money and bust the teachers' union at the same time.

Remember that strike in September? The union had to fight for kids to all get textbooks on the first day of school.

farking Rahm. He disgusts me.

THIS

Rahm is shutting down over 100 public schools in Chicago and they're slowly being replaced by charter schools. So all those who are saying people have a choice as to where to send their kids, well the mayor is trying to make it so there won't be any or many choices. Charter schools aren't a better education, they are a money making scheme. I know there's not a lot of sympathy for teachers on fark, but there will be hundreds of them who will be laid off due to this. The ones who do get hired by charter schools have no union protection, get paid significantly less, and have miserable jobs. It's not just the students who can get written, it's also the teachers (and for really minor things). Rahm put someone in charge of the Chicago Public School System who had NO background in education. He was a businessman. That should tell you all you need to know about what sort of agenda he has for the schools in the city.


Totally...

Farking Republicans always trying to stick it to the unions.
 
2013-01-05 04:55:21 AM

iheartscotch: If you don't want your children to be subject to a higher standard; don't send them to a chartered/private school.

If you don't want to be subject to fines; don't sign the form that says you understand the school's rules and agree to abide by them.

/ you, 100%, have a choice as to where your child goes to school


Where exactly in this scenario of yours did the actual child agree to get sent to this community of asshats?

/only spent four months at military school in Georgia as a high school sophomore
//guy who stood next to me in my platoon used to deliberately fail inspections and had to march off the resulting demerits an hour at a time after school. Every. Single. Day.
///Because "Fark You", that's why
////I'd imagine he did that for another 2.5 years after I left that godawful place. That brave/stupid motherfarker's innate resistence to authority was hardcore
 
2013-01-05 05:01:34 AM

Nadie_AZ: Somehow they actually believe Reagan's quip that the worst words in the english language are "I'm from the Government and am here to help." All while drinking their clean water, driving on their level roads, sleeping in their inspected homes, eating their inspected foods, feeling safe because of the police and military.


And the fire brigade don't sit outside watching your house burn whilst you negotiate their payment. Same for whambulances as well (at least here in the UK).

I know Socialism is the new Communism as far as some groups of Americans are concerned but the government are the best entity to provide the basic safety nets we all intrinsically need (health, fire, police, mass transit, etc.) with private companies offering additional services that may or may not be better/quicker than the base 'government' model.

Irrespective of which country you're in, we all pay our damn taxes isn't it better that that tax money goes on giving US something rather than in to the pockets of the unscrupulous?
 
2013-01-05 05:05:43 AM

RatMaster999: iheartscotch: Sometimes, I wonder if the solution is to allow students who do not want to be educated to drop out at an earlier age; thus relieving the education system of the burden of educating them.


It's actually a good idea, let the people who don't want a free formal education go find something else to do (community college, apprenticeships, etc.) the only problem is that there has been a qualifications creep over the years and that needs to be reversed (come on, you don't need a 2:1 BSc in CompSci to sit on a teir1 helldesk, a BTEC 1st in IT is more than sufficient).

If you can fix that qualification creep you'd be on to a major winner IMHO.
 
2013-01-05 05:23:23 AM
Still cheaper than a catholic school with less education.
 
2013-01-05 05:27:17 AM

byelii: my mom has been, for the last 25 years, an elementary school teacher in one of the best public school systems in the country. the system is in one of the wealthiest counties in the nation. the school in which she teaches is roughly 85% upper middle class and 15% less than that [fark stat approximation].

the unifying factor in the kids who failed? kids with parents that don't give more than lip service (if even that) to education in front of their kids - economic situation, ethnicity, single parent/two parent family had nothing to do with success. it was about the level of commitment.

like a previous post said - selection bias. this charter school bs is just that. keep blaming the unions, the school systems, the schools themselves...please see above.


This is the truth. My wife is a teacher and the success of the student is directly related to the involvement of the parents. No matter how hard a teacher tries to teach (and most work their asses off), if the parents aren't involved the student will most likely fail. But hey, lets go for the low hanging fruit instead. It's more fun! Teachers union ruinin everything derp derp. How dare dey want decent benefits and a livable wage derp derp.
 
2013-01-05 05:47:21 AM
Under James Q. Wilson's theory (dissected here by Mike Konczal), you could argue that such rules preserve order by targeting potential troublemakers and punishing them into submission before they have the chance to do anything which would actually harm the community.

The Qin emperors had that very same idea 2200 years ago. Chen Sheng could have told you exacty how that particular well thought out scheme works.
 
2013-01-05 06:15:15 AM

Arthur Jumbles: At the KIPP schools only one third of 8th graders enrolled at KIPP graduated from college ten years later.


Which is higher than the rate of college graduation ten years hence for all eighth-graders. And probably much much higher than the rate after controlling for socio-economic status.
 
2013-01-05 06:24:20 AM
You farking people would make a Ferengi blush.
 
2013-01-05 06:47:54 AM
Is this back door discrimination. Affluent parents can pay fines but "urban" parents can't so the fine system works to cherry pick students. It makes money and it makes them seem to do better
 
2013-01-05 06:50:58 AM
FTFA: [...] disciplinary fees are a win-win for charter schools: Not only are they reasonably lucrative, but there's also a great way to enforce social control. If a kids' unruly behavior puts a significant financial burden on his parents, you can bet those parents will do everything they can to get their son in line. The increased classroom discipline, in turn, reflects well on the charter school, which might then expect more city funding.

This... is a damned good idea. A uniquely American solution to a uniquely American problem. We can't punish students or expel them or do anything else that would infringe on their rights -- but we don't have to. We don't even need to rely on the willingness of parental involvement. Just jerk Mom and Dad by the money chain and watch order & discipline emerge as if by magic without ever having to inflict so much unpleasantness on the children as a word of rebuke. What goes on at home is the parents' affair, they have much greater freedom to manage behavior, the school is responsible for none of it, and in the worst case if they can't (or won't) do the needful they can take their kid elsewhere.

The more I think of it, this goes to the heart of much that troubles education in the U.S. where the problem is often not bad children but bad parents. How blindingly obvious to punish those responsible for the problem rather than their children.

The author clearly sees this as a crime against humanity (if he's not just fishing for ways to attack charter schools) but I want to see more of it. This is brilliant.
 
2013-01-05 07:06:26 AM

proteus_b: Arthur Jumbles: At the KIPP schools only one third of 8th graders enrolled at KIPP graduated from college ten years later.

Which is higher than the rate of college graduation ten years hence for all eighth-graders. And probably much much higher than the rate after controlling for socio-economic status.


I work for a charter school who can report that 94% of our graduating seniors get accepted into 4 year colleges/universities. But we fully realize that many of our students never make it to graduation. It's a majority of factors including academic inability, behavioral issues, emotional disorders, etc.

We have NO entry requirements and therefore get a seriously complex mix of students. We do everything we can for each kid, but we can't teach everyone. It's a sad fact, and we feel pain for every kid we lose, but we bust our arses before we let any kid walk out the door.
 
2013-01-05 07:37:28 AM
This is really just about two things:

1) A money grab by charter schools. They can't just jack up tuition, so they grab money in other ways and this is one of the more draconian ones.

2) A way to keep "those dirty poor people" out. Rich kid gets hit with a couple grand in fines, their parents pay it, maybe dad beats them when he gets drunk, they get to stay. Poor kid gets hit with a couple grand in fines, their parents can't pay, and thus get kicked out. It is selective expulsion. If you are poor, you get expelled for less than if you are rich. The more money your parents have and are willing to spend on you, the more you can misbehave.

This has absolutely nothing to do with being effective at discipline or anything else. You can particularly see it in rules like "failing to maintain eye contact." In no way, shape, or form is that a behaviour problem. However it is a convenient excuse to drop fines on any kid you don't like, since even most adults don't maintain eye contact 100% of the time, never mind children.
 
2013-01-05 08:12:14 AM

Vaneshi: RatMaster999: iheartscotch: Sometimes, I wonder if the solution is to allow students who do not want to be educated to drop out at an earlier age; thus relieving the education system of the burden of educating them.

It's actually a good idea, let the people who don't want a free formal education go find something else to do (community college, apprenticeships, etc.) the only problem is that there has been a qualifications creep over the years and that needs to be reversed (come on, you don't need a 2:1 BSc in CompSci to sit on a teir1 helldesk, a BTEC 1st in IT is more than sufficient).

If you can fix that qualification creep you'd be on to a major winner IMHO.


Truth. Also, you don't need a BA to do customer service.
 
2013-01-05 08:14:45 AM

MrShivery is going to Hell: byelii: my mom has been, for the last 25 years, an elementary school teacher in one of the best public school systems in the country. the system is in one of the wealthiest counties in the nation. the school in which she teaches is roughly 85% upper middle class and 15% less than that [fark stat approximation].

the unifying factor in the kids who failed? kids with parents that don't give more than lip service (if even that) to education in front of their kids - economic situation, ethnicity, single parent/two parent family had nothing to do with success. it was about the level of commitment.

like a previous post said - selection bias. this charter school bs is just that. keep blaming the unions, the school systems, the schools themselves...please see above.

This is the truth. My wife is a teacher and the success of the student is directly related to the involvement of the parents. No matter how hard a teacher tries to teach (and most work their asses off), if the parents aren't involved the student will most likely fail. But hey, lets go for the low hanging fruit instead. It's more fun! Teachers union ruinin everything derp derp. How dare dey want decent benefits and a livable wage derp derp.


This is what reinforced my decision not to go into teaching. Teachers are treated like crap in this country and many are going out of their way to take away their remaining benefits.
 
2013-01-05 08:18:10 AM
A government shakedown in Chicago? Impossible.
 
2013-01-05 08:21:45 AM
This couldn't happen in the charter school I once substituted in.  Mostly because half the kids are borderline poor and wouldn't pay up even if you tried.

Though it's deeper than that for them.  That school was, for all intents and purposes, a dumping ground for IEPs (and to a lesser extent, 504s) that couldn't survive or weren't allowed in public schools, and couldn't go to parochials because they don't accept special needs kids here.  (FTR, for the most part, there's very few non-secular private schools in the area, and those that are are expensive as hell.)  Sure, the school would pretend they were trying to do all the buzzword-worthy things, but in the end, half of every classroom was a bunch of dick kids whose parents were helicopters and wouldn't accept responsibility for their dickishness.  The other half, unfortunately, were screwed.  And it only got worse once MCAS got involved in the mess.

As with any school anywhere, if the parents don't give a flying fark, the kids won't either.  And right now, there are a lot of parents out there with way more to worry about than their kids.
 
2013-01-05 08:40:00 AM

byelii:
the unifying factor in the kids who failed? kids with parents that don't give more than lip service (if even that) to education in front of their kids - economic situation, ethnicity, single parent/two parent family had nothing to do with success. it was about the level of commitment.


I'm glad you believe whatever it is your mom tells you. Those guys are just friends, too.

Out here in the real world there are parents who do all the right things and still somehow have the kid from hell. There's a pretty good documentary about the Columbine killers' parents, if you want an extreme example. Most people have known families where two kids, with the same parents, same upbringinging, turn out at opposite ends.

Kids from shiat homes can turn out well. Kids from great homes can end up Ted Bundy or BTK.

But keep pretending there's a nice simple moral division here, the parents determine how a teen turns out and genetic randomisation and in-utero and Cub scout leaders who don't respect boundaries never have anything to do with it.

Because, hey, your mom told you. And that guy she took the money from, who came in to your room?

He was just the tooth fairy.
 
2013-01-05 08:42:46 AM
Some insufferable little sh*t who got suspended 15 times got fined for it? Hallelujah!
 
2013-01-05 09:11:15 AM

Fade2black: I seem to recall schools being a place of discipline back in them thar early days...and kids being better for it. Don't like it? Don't send your kids to a charter school.


If the Corporatists do away with public schools as they intend to, parents and children will have no choice in the matter. And if places like Texas are anything to go by, parents who can't pay the fines will have to see their kids sent to juvie prisons, where the inmates will probably be co-opted for slave labor. It's sad to hope that energy and capital depletion entropy outraces authoritarianism to the social finish line.

Teh Freadums!! Murica!!!!
 
2013-01-05 09:29:34 AM

fusillade762: namegoeshere: If only there was a way to not send your child to a charter school...

If only there was a way to prevent charter schools from bleeding money from public ones...


If only there were a way to prevent government schools from bleeding money from everything else.
 
2013-01-05 09:30:53 AM

Dear Jerk: There are a great number of things that government does better than private business.


Killing and threatening people are at the top of that list.
 
2013-01-05 09:34:53 AM

varmitydog: Some insufferable little sh*t who got suspended 15 times got fined for it? Hallelujah!


In govt school they would arrest him and throw him in jail.
 
2013-01-05 09:42:01 AM

teeny: If they turn out a significantly higher number of kids that successfully graduate college, I'd wager people would be significantly less outraged. As some people have mentioned, no one is forcing the parents to send their kids there. I know I wouldn't. But I have my kids enrolled in a home-based charter, and I'm pretty damned glad to have the option considering the schools around here are the shiattiest of the shiat.

Also, I may be totally off base here, but when I read this: The parents of one teenager, writes Traci Lee, had to pay close to $2,000 in fines for infractions including "an unkempt appearance and not making eye contact."
,

...I have to wonder what the other infractions were. Say, for example, $1500 was for participating in a physical fight with another student. $200 was for behaving in a defiant manner while being questioned/lectured, like refusing to make eye contact. It wouldn't be the first time critical information was left out of an article.


Or that someone twisted the facts in the same way to fit their world view.
 
2013-01-05 10:21:04 AM
I've talked to some mighty squirrely kids lately. Their eyes are either darting around like a three-time loser, or they have the thousand yard stare.
 
2013-01-05 10:21:23 AM
the school system and the prison system are the same thing:
- school system is a day care system keeps smart people tied up and out of the real world
- prison system is a system that keeps reactive individuals off the streets

so what you're left with is the middle of the bell curve, when everyone's the same, everyone's happy, right?

aren't you happy? (if not we can throw you in school or prison. :) )

have a nice day.

this country is ghey now.
 
2013-01-05 10:23:09 AM

Asa Phelps: You sign the documents, you follow the rules.

Buyer beware.

Nobody forced them to send their kid there.


You know how we know you didn't read the article?
 
2013-01-05 10:24:23 AM
unruly students. The parents of one teenager, writes Traci Lee, had to pay close to $2,000 in fines for infractions including "an unkempt appearance and not making eye contact."

no, charge the kid, not the parents. the kid will never learn responsibility without covering this debt. if he can't afford it, there's always student loans.
 
2013-01-05 10:28:48 AM
Sounds like a good school actually.
 
2013-01-05 10:31:04 AM

utah dude: unruly students. The parents of one teenager, writes Traci Lee, had to pay close to $2,000 in fines for infractions including "an unkempt appearance and not making eye contact."

no, charge the kid, not the parents. the kid will never learn responsibility without covering this debt. if he can't afford it, there's always student loans.


The responsibility of straightening a tie or making sure to engage in an appropriate amount of eye contact? I take it you cheer on HOAs when they fine people into oblivion for non-regulation tulip patches and mailbox decorations that don't meet guidelines?

This country breeds money-grubbing sadists.
 
2013-01-05 10:52:37 AM
School, prison, what's the difference?
 
2013-01-05 10:53:25 AM
Ah yes our 'justice' system being reflected in schools - only the rich can misbehave with impunity.
 
2013-01-05 11:13:18 AM
Turned away from Flint schools after they handcuffed a 5 yro for having a bad day and among a long list of other reasons. Put kids in 'free to the public' charter school, only to find out they don't suspend bad kids. Bullying got so far out of hand that physical assaults went unpunished because suspending a kid would reduce the government money coming in. Especially if the kid's parents decided to take their kid elsewhere. So, we home school our kids and use the K12 program. Public funded like the schools, however they get a lot more one on one help where they struggle most. I figure it helps the schools a little by not making them pay for transportation, providing space in a building or feeding my kids. They still see real teachers online, so no teachers were harmed. In a way we reduced our carbon foot print and class over crowding, while creating a more parent involved home environment.
 
2013-01-05 11:38:59 AM

BolshyGreatYarblocks: Fade2black: I seem to recall schools being a place of discipline back in them thar early days...and kids being better for it. Don't like it? Don't send your kids to a charter school.

If the Corporatists do away with public schools as they intend to, parents and children will have no choice in the matter. And if places like Texas are anything to go by, parents who can't pay the fines will have to see their kids sent to juvie prisons, where the inmates will probably be co-opted for slave labor. It's sad to hope that energy and capital depletion entropy outraces authoritarianism to the social finish line.

Teh Freadums!! Murica!!!!


And mostly this. It amazes and saddens me how many are cheering on the destruction of public education. You put quite succinctly what I have noticed for some time. Scapegoating teachers for daring to hang on to benefits that were once staples of employee compensation. Rather than fight for better benefits, they've been hoodwinked into trying to wrest them from public employees.

Yet, most of these assholes denigrating teachers, education, and public employee benefits have a thing to say about Congressional benefits.

I can only assume the aforementioned corporatist astroturfing is responsible for this sad state of affairs. Nothing else could explain why the right seems to have such a hard-on for killing education and the USPS.
 
2013-01-05 11:43:05 AM
We recently had a teabagger style govt that decided (since all us politicians went to private schools) that schools (either public or private) should be funded on a per student basis, ie. if you take your kid out of a public school and put them in a private one, then $X'000s would be moved from the public school to the private one.

Seems fair to these repug types - "I pay taxes so why shouldn't I get a benefit?" (they did the same with Private Health Insurance - oh lets take money out of the PUBLIC health system and subsidise those who can already afford private health insurance.)

It's like they have absolutely no idea of what taxes are meant to pay for.

And yet I can guarantee that if I decide to home school my (imaginary) child I will not get given the same money from the government to do it (currently $10,500.)
 
2013-01-05 12:12:26 PM

machodonkeywrestler: Also, I may be totally off base here, but when I read this: The parents of one teenager, writes Traci Lee, had to pay close to $2,000 in fines for infractions including "an unkempt appearance and not making eye contact."
,

...I have to wonder what the other infractions were. Say, for example, $1500 was for participating in a physical fight with another student. $200 was for behaving in a defiant manner while being questioned/lectured, like refusing to make eye contact. It wouldn't be the first time critical information was left out of an article.

Or that someone twisted the facts in the same way to fit their world view.



I'm not twisting facts, I'm offering up a possible situation in which the fines might be warranted. TFA listed *a few* of the reasons listed for the fines and everyone jumped into the "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE" wagon. Do you really think they're just walking around, handing out $2000 demerits for "not making eye contact"? It reminds me of the story last year about the mom who complained about the school lunch nazis that decided her daughter's homemade lunch wasn't sufficient and sent a bill home with the child. Everyone was outraged until the facts came out.
 
2013-01-05 12:15:22 PM

friday13: Asa Phelps: You sign the documents, you follow the rules.

Buyer beware.

Nobody forced them to send their kid there.

You know how we know you didn't read the article?


Just re-read the article (well, skimmed it). Where does it say you can't pull your kid out of the school if you don't like the policies. It's a charter school so you have to voluntarily send your kid there, right?
 
2013-01-05 12:22:01 PM

Langdon_777: We recently had a teabagger style govt that decided (since all us politicians went to private schools) that schools (either public or private) should be funded on a per student basis, ie. if you take your kid out of a public school and put them in a private one, then $X'000s would be moved from the public school to the private one.

Seems fair to these repug types - "I pay taxes so why shouldn't I get a benefit?" (they did the same with Private Health Insurance - oh lets take money out of the PUBLIC health system and subsidise those who can already afford private health insurance.)

It's like they have absolutely no idea of what taxes are meant to pay for.

And yet I can guarantee that if I decide to home school my (imaginary) child I will not get given the same money from the government to do it (currently $10,500.)


Wouldn't work. Too many people would 'home school' their kids just to get the money and not teach them at all.
 
2013-01-05 01:06:21 PM

CujoQuarrel: Langdon_777:

And yet I can guarantee that if I decide to home school my (imaginary) child I will not get given the same money from the government to do it (currently $10,500.)

Wouldn't work. Too many people would 'home school' their kids just to get the money and not teach them at all.



Hehe (I could buy a nice boat in a couple of years...at least I could teach hir how to fish ;)

True and yet my faith in private institutions of any kind tends to wain a bit when money is involved ie. my faith in the Catholic Church run private schools is waaaay less than my faith in the local non-sectarian (created by local parents) private school.
 
2013-01-05 01:24:32 PM

Langdon_777: CujoQuarrel: Langdon_777:

And yet I can guarantee that if I decide to home school my (imaginary) child I will not get given the same money from the government to do it (currently $10,500.)

Wouldn't work. Too many people would 'home school' their kids just to get the money and not teach them at all.


Hehe (I could buy a nice boat in a couple of years...at least I could teach hir how to fish ;)

True and yet my faith in private institutions of any kind tends to wain a bit when money is involved ie. my faith in the Catholic Church run private schools is waaaay less than my faith in the local non-sectarian (created by local parents) private school.


As long as the schools are 'accredited' by someone honest it should be ok (I could see a bunch of parents putting together a fake school to get the money)

The great thing about school choice is , well, you would have the choice of either of those two private schools or the public school.
 
2013-01-05 01:38:02 PM

CujoQuarrel:

As long as the schools are 'accredited' by someone honest it should be ok (I could see a bunch of parents putting together a fake school to get the money)


The later sounds like all Catholic Schools (and their other tax free businesses/institutions) - we are here to help you (out of your money.)

Schools should not be run by delusional celibate peeps.
 
2013-01-05 02:17:14 PM

Pray 4 Mojo: Wow... soooooooooo much butthurt in this thread.

Starting with the first word of the headline... and all the way through.


So, pray tell... do you have any words of insight? Any thoughts or ideas how to improve public education, or are you just here to be a dick?
 
2013-01-05 02:57:40 PM

proteus_b: Arthur Jumbles: At the KIPP schools only one third of 8th graders enrolled at KIPP graduated from college ten years later.

Which is higher than the rate of college graduation ten years hence for all eighth-graders. And probably much much higher than the rate after controlling for socio-economic status.


National average was 32 percent in 2011.
 
2013-01-05 03:19:59 PM
Yeah, Washington state, sure, let's do that here, too. Sounds great. Heck, once we reinstate debtor's prisons, we'll never run out of menial laborers!
 
2013-01-05 07:09:19 PM

jigger: fusillade762: namegoeshere: If only there was a way to not send your child to a charter school...

If only there was a way to prevent charter schools from bleeding money from public ones...

If only there were a way to prevent government schools from bleeding money from everything else.


So privatize all the schools, is that your solution?
 
2013-01-07 07:09:24 PM

fusillade762: jigger: fusillade762: namegoeshere: If only there was a way to not send your child to a charter school...

If only there was a way to prevent charter schools from bleeding money from public ones...

If only there were a way to prevent government schools from bleeding money from everything else.

So privatize all the schools, is that your solution?


May I suggest not?

Let's Dewey-and-Emerson them. D and E. D&E. Let's do it.
 
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