Do you have adblock enabled?
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(WFAA Fort Worth)   American Eagle pilot arrested after an alcohol test revealed he was over the Minnesota 0.04% legal limit for pilots. In related news, PILOTS CAN LEGALLY FLY AFTER DRINKING in Minnesota   (wfaa.com) divider line 137
    More: Scary, American Eagle, Minnesota  
•       •       •

3102 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jan 2013 at 4:52 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



137 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-01-04 04:04:52 PM  
How else are you going to stay warm until the cabin heats up?
 
2013-01-04 04:06:50 PM  
Hell, I run a .04 cold sober
 
2013-01-04 04:08:04 PM  
.04 is when you had a sip or Coors Light 45 minutes ago.
 
2013-01-04 04:10:03 PM  
Wow.  I could see some lightweights being a little buzzed at .04.
 
2013-01-04 04:14:18 PM  
.04 means the dude had a beer with lunch. My pilot can be at .04 for the entire flight.
 
2013-01-04 04:16:32 PM  
Yes, but how was the Abercrombie and Fitch pilot?
 
2013-01-04 04:16:52 PM  
I thought there were some specific time limits between drinking and boarding the plane as well, 8 hours or 12 hours, rather than a allowable limit?
 
2013-01-04 04:19:11 PM  
6:30 am guy was preparing to do his best imitation of Denzel Washington as a pilot. 0.04 after a nights rest? That was some bender.
 
2013-01-04 04:19:24 PM  

JerseyTim: Yes, but how was the Abercrombie and Fitch pilot?


Hard to tell. His cologne was overpowering.
 
2013-01-04 04:19:44 PM  
What an inebriated airline pilot might look like:

media.npr.org
 
2013-01-04 04:20:16 PM  
Subby sounds madd.
 
2013-01-04 04:23:45 PM  
That's about 2 beers. Much more lenient than I would expect
 
2013-01-04 04:24:01 PM  
It's not Minnesota law it's FAA regs.
 
2013-01-04 04:29:31 PM  
It used to be 8 hours bottle to throttle.  Now the FAA has some pretty stiff regs.
 
2013-01-04 04:29:43 PM  
It's an entirely different kind of flying altogether.
 
2013-01-04 04:39:37 PM  

Ed Finnerty: Hard to tell. His cologne was overpowering.


No shiat.  Whoever in their marketing department that decided that flooding a mall with cheap-ass cologne fumes for 30 stores in every direction should be taken out and skinned, and dipped in a vat of rubbing alcohol..
 
2013-01-04 04:40:34 PM  

Ed Finnerty: Hard to tell. His cologne was overpowering.


NO shiat.. I was at the mall last week and their store was pumping cheap shiat cologne out into the mall.. It was strong enough to choke a horse at 5000 yards.
 
2013-01-04 04:55:26 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: It used to be 8 hours bottle to throttle.  Now the FAA has some pretty stiff regs.


My brain went somewhere very dirty with that whole post.  Thank you.
 
2013-01-04 04:55:40 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: It used to be 8 hours bottle to throttle.




That's a good rule for driving as well as flying.
 
2013-01-04 04:56:30 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: It's an entirely different kind of flying altogether.


It's an entirely different kind of flying
 
2013-01-04 04:56:55 PM  

Apos: What an inebriated airline pilot might look like:

[media.npr.org image 850x637]


If that's what it takes to fly a commercial airliner upside down without stalling, more power to him.
 
2013-01-04 04:57:03 PM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: It's an entirely different kind of flying altogether.


i105.photobucket.com
"It's an entirely different kind of flying."
 
2013-01-04 04:58:38 PM  
I'll bet he's really drinking now!
 
2013-01-04 04:59:47 PM  
If piloting a plane is anything like bowling then I support it. Bowling doesn't go right without 2-3 beers.
 
2013-01-04 05:00:23 PM  
0.04%? That's more of a sort of glide than flying.
 
2013-01-04 05:00:25 PM  
Next up, we fly high

/both ways
 
2013-01-04 05:00:55 PM  
.04 is the limit for any commercial license. Pilot trucker limo driver bus driver.
 
2013-01-04 05:02:25 PM  
In Minnesota, you can't even call yourself a citizen unless you've had a few.
 
2013-01-04 05:03:07 PM  

NowhereMon: I thought there were some specific time limits between drinking and boarding the plane as well, 8 hours or 12 hours, rather than a allowable limit?


It's both. You have to abstain at least 8 hours, and after that, can't blow more than a .04.

Additionally, those are the legal minimums for any pilot under the FAA's jurisdiction. The approved operating procedures for a specific airline may specify stricter requirements on their pilots, from what I understand 12 or 24 hours is common for the airlines.
 
2013-01-04 05:03:30 PM  
Banana boat's coming
 
2013-01-04 05:04:51 PM  
Simplified Regulation :

91.17 (a) No flying :
(1) within 8 hours of drinking
(2) while under the influence
(3) - drug related -
(4) with a BAC > .04

My understanding is that there's an implied 'Or' between 1, 2, 3 and 4.

It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and not be under the influence.
 
2013-01-04 05:05:11 PM  
.04 to avoid false positives. You aren't allowed to actually drink any booze before flying.
 
2013-01-04 05:05:26 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: It used to be 8 hours bottle to throttle.  Now the FAA has some pretty stiff regs.


And American Eagle has some pretty stiff pilots...

/rimshot
//tip your waitress
 
2013-01-04 05:06:31 PM  

LaraAmber: My brain went somewhere very dirty with that whole post.  Thank you.


Glad to be of service.
 
2013-01-04 05:07:17 PM  
Oops - my bad. Airlines don't fly under Part 91.
 
2013-01-04 05:07:27 PM  
I REALLY needed a drink last week flying to Rochester. I was on one of those little CRJ's out of Philly. We lifted off, gear came up, we were climbing out, when suddenly, without warning, the plane rolls into a 45 degree bank to the right, dfoes like a 2g turn, then rolls 90 degrees to the left, into a left 45 degree 2g turn, then levels out and continues climbing. I ripped my headphones off (was listening to the Jonny Quest theme, as I usually do during takeoffs) and damm near pissed my pants. What was it? A controls failure, crazy pilot fight in the cockpit??

No. A flight of geese flew in front of the plane after liftoff and the pilot went all Top Gunny to avoid them. I was impressed at the roll rate the pilot was able to generate with the CRJ. Almost as quick as the Pitts Special I used to fly.
 
2013-01-04 05:07:54 PM  
6:30am??
 
2013-01-04 05:08:13 PM  
I've woke up after 7-8 hours of sleep with a BAC of 3 times that.
 
2013-01-04 05:09:43 PM  

DoctorOfLove: .04 to avoid false positives. You aren't allowed to actually drink any booze before flying.


Technically if you had a beer at the age of 18, and you flew at the age of 34, you would have drunk before flying.  Your argument is invalid.

On the other hand, I got grounded for black olives once.
 
2013-01-04 05:09:59 PM  

Apos: What an inebriated airline pilot might look like:

[media.npr.org image 850x637]


That movie was pretty good.
 
2013-01-04 05:11:57 PM  
Darn hipster airlines.

www.outletnote.com
 
2013-01-04 05:12:07 PM  

lewismarktwo: Apos: What an inebriated airline pilot might look like:

[media.npr.org image 850x637]

That movie was pretty good.


Yes, it was.
 
2013-01-04 05:13:02 PM  
Not his fault really, the bar said it was only a mini soda.
 
2013-01-04 05:13:24 PM  
What are the limits for a CDL? I thought OTR drivers had .02 as a limit. How are pilots allowed more?
 
2013-01-04 05:13:30 PM  

Hebjamn: Simplified Regulation :

91.17 (a) No flying :
(1) within 8 hours of drinking
(2) while under the influence
(3) - drug related -
(4) with a BAC > .04

My understanding is that there's an implied 'Or' between 1, 2, 3 and 4.

It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and not be under the influence.


It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and be considered under the influence
 
2013-01-04 05:13:46 PM  
 
2013-01-04 05:14:42 PM  

Evil Mackerel: Apos: What an inebriated airline pilot might look like:

[media.npr.org image 850x637]

If that's what it takes to fly a commercial airliner upside down without stalling, more power to him.


Even if it's a dangerous crutch?
 
2013-01-04 05:15:58 PM  
It should be higher due to our proximity to Wisconsin.
 
2013-01-04 05:17:03 PM  
How about an Old Fashioned?
 
2013-01-04 05:20:00 PM  
Isn't flying high into the sky part of the song?
 
2013-01-04 05:20:52 PM  

dryknife: Foster Brooks pilot


A classic!
 
2013-01-04 05:21:29 PM  

WillyChase: Hebjamn: Simplified Regulation :

91.17 (a) No flying :
(1) within 8 hours of drinking
(2) while under the influence
(3) - drug related -
(4) with a BAC > .04

My understanding is that there's an implied 'Or' between 1, 2, 3 and 4.

It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and not be under the influence.

It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and be considered under the influence


Zero tolerance.
 
2013-01-04 05:21:33 PM  
Most airlines have more restrictive limits than .04. "Free from the effects of alcohol" is a common term used in operations manuals. This will allow you to be fired if you show up between .01 and .04.
 
2013-01-04 05:22:12 PM  
trailers.apple.com

That's how he rolls...
 
2013-01-04 05:22:46 PM  

filter: What are the limits for a CDL? I thought OTR drivers had .02 as a limit. How are pilots allowed more?


I refer you to my post above
 
2013-01-04 05:23:09 PM  

W. T. Fark: That's about 2 beers. Much more lenient than I would expect


It's hard to say how many beers it is. You have to consider metabolism, weight, time etc.
 
2013-01-04 05:25:06 PM  
bbsimg.ngfiles.com

/Wait a second...penguins can't fly...PENGUINS CAN'T FLY
 
2013-01-04 05:25:33 PM  
Amateurs. .04 is the minimum BAC for flying in Wisconsin.
 
2013-01-04 05:27:24 PM  
Did my pilot's training in Minnesota & getting a kick, etc.

/ though I was under 21 at the time anyway, so any drinking was illegal
 
2013-01-04 05:33:12 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-04 05:34:34 PM  
bike29.com
 
2013-01-04 05:36:32 PM  

macadamnut: How about an Old Fashioned?


/IAMMMMW FTW!
 
2013-01-04 05:37:45 PM  
Foster Brooks played a pilot in Jerry Lewis' CRACKING UP, but I can't find a picture. :(
 
2013-01-04 05:38:42 PM  
Airline Transport Pilot certificates are issued under FAR Part 61 which in 61.15(b) states:

"(b) Committing an act prohibited by §91.17(a) or §91.19(a) of this chapter is grounds for:

(1) Denial of an application for a certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of that act; or

(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part."

Commercial Pilot
Airplane Single and Multi-Engine Land
Instrument Airplane
Lighter Than Air - Balloon

The state charges will likely be the least of his problems.
 
2013-01-04 05:38:51 PM  

mark12A: I REALLY needed a drink last week flying to Rochester. I was on one of those little CRJ's out of Philly. We lifted off, gear came up, we were climbing out, when suddenly, without warning, the plane rolls into a 45 degree bank to the right, dfoes like a 2g turn, then rolls 90 degrees to the left, into a left 45 degree 2g turn, then levels out and continues climbing. I ripped my headphones off (was listening to the Jonny Quest theme, as I usually do during takeoffs) and damm near pissed my pants. What was it? A controls failure, crazy pilot fight in the cockpit??

No. A flight of geese flew in front of the plane after liftoff and the pilot went all Top Gunny to avoid them. I was impressed at the roll rate the pilot was able to generate with the CRJ. Almost as quick as the Pitts Special I used to fly.


+1 for spelling it "Jonny"

/Great tune... one of my childhood favorites from the night it premiered
 
2013-01-04 05:39:07 PM  
As God as my witness, I thought after drinking Wild Turkey I could fly.
 
2013-01-04 05:42:13 PM  

Ed Finnerty: JerseyTim: Yes, but how was the Abercrombie and Fitch pilot?

Hard to tell. His cologne was overpowering.


The thundering music and dim cabin was like an opium den.
 
2013-01-04 05:43:12 PM  

The Irresponsible Captain: Darn hipster airlines.

[www.outletnote.com image 324x327]


American Eagle is hipster now?
 
2013-01-04 05:44:37 PM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: .04 is the limit for any commercial license. Pilot trucker limo driver bus driver.


filter: What are the limits for a CDL? I thought OTR drivers had .02 as a limit. How are pilots allowed more?


My buddy has a small landscaping business.  Has to have a CDL (or something similar) to drive his truck.  He told me its 0.02.  Maybe its a state thing.
 
2013-01-04 05:47:01 PM  
I didn't know you could get a pilot's license to fly American Eagles...

Do you have to be a jockey or something?
 
2013-01-04 05:48:02 PM  

Hebjamn: Simplified Regulation :

91.17 (a) No flying :
(1) within 8 hours of drinking
(2) while under the influence
(3) - drug related -
(4) with a BAC > .04

My understanding is that there's an implied 'Or' between 1, 2, 3 and 4.

It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and not be under the influence.


spoken like a true puritan.

how frisky do you feel after 2 light beers, francis?
 
2013-01-04 05:51:31 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: WillyChase: Hebjamn: Simplified Regulation :

91.17 (a) No flying :
(1) within 8 hours of drinking
(2) while under the influence
(3) - drug related -
(4) with a BAC > .04

My understanding is that there's an implied 'Or' between 1, 2, 3 and 4.

It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and not be under the influence.

It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and be considered under the influence

Zero tolerance.


^^^^^
 
2013-01-04 05:52:39 PM  

W. T. Fark: That's about 2 beers. Much more lenient than I would expect


What do you weigh? 30 lbs?
 
2013-01-04 05:54:11 PM  

SSpiffy: Airline Transport Pilot certificates are issued under FAR Part 61 which in 61.15(b) states:

"(b) Committing an act prohibited by §91.17(a) or §91.19(a) of this chapter is grounds for:

(1) Denial of an application for a certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of that act; or

(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part."

Commercial Pilot
Airplane Single and Multi-Engine Land
Instrument Airplane
Lighter Than Air - Balloon

The state charges will likely be the least of his problems.


I have all of those, except Lighter than air balloon.

Still got grounded for black olives, really.  Followed the alcohol rules however.

Remember, the pilots usually arrive at the crash scene first.  Passengers forget that.
 
2013-01-04 05:55:54 PM  
.04 that is like had a beer at some point since you turned 21
 
2013-01-04 05:56:22 PM  

W. T. Fark: That's about 2 beers. Much more lenient than I would expect


2 weak shiatty american light beers over a 2 hour period maybe.
 
2013-01-04 05:58:44 PM  
If I have to turn off my electronics due to the tiny chance of interference then the pilots should have a zero BAC.

/about to board a plane
 
2013-01-04 06:04:55 PM  

Baryogenesis: If I have to turn off my electronics due to the tiny chance of interference then the pilots should have a zero BAC.

/about to board a plane


Using alcohol-based mouthwash is enough to blow something greater than zero. While I'm not okay with my pilot knocking back a few before the flight, I am okay with him having fresh breath.
 
2013-01-04 06:05:15 PM  

Baryogenesis: If I have to turn off my electronics due to the tiny chance of interference then the pilots should have a zero BAC.

/about to board a plane


Lol airlines are now putting iPads in the cockpit, it is all a crock.
 
2013-01-04 06:05:43 PM  

W. T. Fark: That's about 2 beers. Much more lenient than I would expect


Ehhh... if you were a decent-sized guy and you drank them slow. Neglecting metabolism (which is to say, neglecting time), BAC is basically just a question of alcohol divided by mass, which is why Stacy Stakowski totally got a DUI even though she only had like one and a half Zimas at Todd's party and left after half an hour because Todd was practically farking Denise Fetzer in the hallway to his parents' bedroom and he knew she was there and so now she like can't even get her license back until she's 19 and that's only because her dad is a tax lawyer and called in a favor with the district magistrate to get her charged with vehicular reckless endangerment instead.
 
2013-01-04 06:10:53 PM  

happyleper: Baryogenesis: If I have to turn off my electronics due to the tiny chance of interference then the pilots should have a zero BAC.

/about to board a plane

Using alcohol-based mouthwash is enough to blow something greater than zero. While I'm not okay with my pilot knocking back a few before the flight, I am okay with him having fresh breath.


In flight school, they gave us a list of foods not to eat, so we wouldn't get false positives on drug tests.
 
2013-01-04 06:12:14 PM  
"Officer, I cleaned my face with hand sanitizer. Should I not have done that?"
 
2013-01-04 06:23:32 PM  
a beer? burn em at the stake.

17 hour duty day? good job see you tomorrow.

/roughly the same level of impairment
 
2013-01-04 06:24:54 PM  

semiotix: W. T. Fark: That's about 2 beers. Much more lenient than I would expect

Ehhh... if you were a decent-sized guy and you drank them slow. Neglecting metabolism (which is to say, neglecting time), BAC is basically just a question of alcohol divided by mass, which is why Stacy Stakowski totally got a DUI even though she only had like one and a half Zimas at Todd's party and left after half an hour because Todd was practically farking Denise Fetzer in the hallway to his parents' bedroom and he knew she was there and so now she like can't even get her license back until she's 19 and that's only because her dad is a tax lawyer and called in a favor with the district magistrate to get her charged with vehicular reckless endangerment instead.


Nice!
 
2013-01-04 06:25:15 PM  

WillyChase: It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and be considered under the influence


I actually have a breathalyzer I go out with. I can drink a bit a still be only at .03 or .04. There are times I won't drive at those. You can be pretty buzzed at 03 or 04. I wouldn't say "drunk" but you are still impaired.
 
2013-01-04 06:25:25 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: Baryogenesis: If I have to turn off my electronics due to the tiny chance of interference then the pilots should have a zero BAC.

/about to board a plane

Lol airlines are now putting iPads in the cockpit, it is all a crock.


If you knew the process behind it, you'd see what a bigger crock it is. Each version of the iPad has to be approved by the FAA for each airline. THEN each airline has to run tests for the manuals. The total time to go from 'we want to do this' to actually being allowed to, runs over a year. Nevermind that they (the FAA) knows the first 3 models and the software all work fine. Still gotta jump through those hoops.

They trust the pilots to have the wireless function turned off. They don't trust the general public to do the same and can't expect the 90 year old flight attendants to know the difference between an iPod and an iPhone or any other wifi device, so they make everybody turn them off.
 
2013-01-04 06:27:10 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: Baryogenesis: If I have to turn off my electronics due to the tiny chance of interference then the pilots should have a zero BAC.

/about to board a plane

Lol airlines are now putting iPads in the cockpit, it is all a crock.


Because one device not interfering means they all can't. Great logic there.
 
2013-01-04 06:33:20 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Fear_and_Loathing: It used to be 8 hours bottle to throttle.

That's a good rule for driving as well as flying.


Actually no it's not. If you're on a bender and pass out at say 0.20% 8 hours before your flight (or drive) you can still be hammered 8 hours later.
 
2013-01-04 06:41:19 PM  
I want to point out that .08 is higher than .04 as well as a .14

The article doesn't mention what his actually was, only that the law was .04 and he was arrested for possibly being somewhere above that. So he could have had a .20 for as much as the article tells us.
 
2013-01-04 06:50:08 PM  

Hoblit: I want to point out that .08 is higher than .04 as well as a .14

The article doesn't mention what his actually was, only that the law was .04 and he was arrested for possibly being somewhere above that. So he could have had a .20 for as much as the article tells us.


To decimal
 
2013-01-04 06:50:49 PM  

filter: Nice!


I don't always drink... but when I do it's with gossipy teenage girls who give me money to buy booze for them.

/stay thirsty, my BFFs
 
2013-01-04 06:53:17 PM  

Freezingprocess: I've woke up after 7-8 hours of sleep with a BAC of 3 times that.


your family must be so proud
 
2013-01-04 06:53:38 PM  

semiotix: filter: Nice!

I don't always drink... but when I do it's with gossipy teenage girls who give me money to buy booze for them.

/stay thirsty, my BFFs


/ewww. *busted*
 
2013-01-04 06:54:39 PM  
Hoblit: I want to point out that .08 is higher than .04 as well as a .14

The article doesn't mention what his actually was, only that the law was .04 and he was arrested for possibly being somewhere above that. So he could have had a .20 for as much as the article tells us.


Indubitably
To decimal

I'm not sure what you are saying. .14 & .08 is higher than .04

My only point is that this guy could have been .20 or for the sake of argument, 2.04... this would still be above .04

The article simply doesn't say what he came in at, only that it was higher than .04

This guy could have been crazy drunk. Though the wording of the headline and the discussion seems to lean that he was right at .04 or just somehow above.

*shrugs
 
2013-01-04 07:05:46 PM  

CavalierEternal: /Wait a second...penguins can't fly...PENGUINS CAN'T FLY


I don't care how many stewardesses you've banged, you're still a lousy pilot
 
2013-01-04 07:17:46 PM  

Polish Hussar: CavalierEternal: /Wait a second...penguins can't fly...PENGUINS CAN'T FLY

I don't care how many stewardesses you've banged, you're still a lousy pilot


QUAAACK QUACK QUACK
 
2013-01-04 07:17:47 PM  

Hoblit: Hoblit: I want to point out that .08 is higher than .04 as well as a .14

The article doesn't mention what his actually was, only that the law was .04 and he was arrested for possibly being somewhere above that. So he could have had a .20 for as much as the article tells us.

Indubitably
To decimal

I'm not sure what you are saying. .14 & .08 is higher than .04

My only point is that this guy could have been .20 or for the sake of argument, 2.04... this would still be above .04

The article simply doesn't say what he came in at, only that it was higher than .04

This guy could have been crazy drunk. Though the wording of the headline and the discussion seems to lean that he was right at .04 or just somehow above.

*shrugs


P.S. What I find most interesting is how many people on the internet don't nuance well. *)
 
2013-01-04 07:20:50 PM  

PunGent: Fear_and_Loathing: It used to be 8 hours bottle to throttle.  Now the FAA has some pretty stiff regs.

And American Eagle has some pretty stiff pilots...

/rimshot
//tip your waitress


I tried to, but when I pulled her onto my lap she slapped me and then called the cops.
 
2013-01-04 07:28:20 PM  
0.04%? Sure he was not under the influence of mouthwash?
 
2013-01-04 07:31:58 PM  
So what, if a pilot ever has a drink, they can no longer fly, ever again?
 
2013-01-04 07:33:14 PM  

happyleper: Using alcohol-based mouthwash is enough to blow something greater than zero. While I'm not okay with my pilot knocking back a few before the flight, I am okay with him having fresh breath.


Not entirely true. Mouth wash leaves "Residual Mouth Alcohol" which can throw off readings in Preliminary Breath Test equipment. Standard procedure for any actionable breath test is at least 15 minutes where nothing is introduced into the mouth (both ways). Chewing gum, smoking, mints, vomiting, etc all reset the time. Additionally, the Datamaster breath tester used at the police station is the only device that is admissible in court in most states for demonstrating the presence of alcohol in the blood stream. The wait time before using the Datamaster is similar.

So yes, mouth wash will artificially spike a PBT reading within a few minutes of using it, and only a few minutes. But no, you cannot be arrested or convicted for a false PBT reading caused by mouth wash. SOP for using PBTs and Datamasters are set as to prevent Residual Mouth Alcohol from having any bearing.
 
2013-01-04 07:33:30 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing: Lol airlines are now putting iPads in the cockpit, it is all a crock.


Airlines are allowing them to be used in aircraft that have been tested for those particular devices, in that particular location.
 
2013-01-04 07:44:01 PM  
i4.ytimg.com
 
2013-01-04 08:06:55 PM  

Indubitably: Hoblit: Hoblit: I want to point out that .08 is higher than .04 as well as a .14

The article doesn't mention what his actually was, only that the law was .04 and he was arrested for possibly being somewhere above that. So he could have had a .20 for as much as the article tells us.

Indubitably
To decimal

I'm not sure what you are saying. .14 & .08 is higher than .04

My only point is that this guy could have been .20 or for the sake of argument, 2.04... this would still be above .04

The article simply doesn't say what he came in at, only that it was higher than .04

This guy could have been crazy drunk. Though the wording of the headline and the discussion seems to lean that he was right at .04 or just somehow above.

*shrugs

P.S. What I find most interesting is how many people on the internet don't nuance well. *)


I must disagree, I find 0.10 BAC to be an appropriately arbitrary level of nuance

Looks like the hyperbole was only brought to answer your initial derpin'
 
2013-01-04 08:08:02 PM  

warfieldred: Indubitably: Hoblit: Hoblit: I want to point out that .08 is higher than .04 as well as a .14

The article doesn't mention what his actually was, only that the law was .04 and he was arrested for possibly being somewhere above that. So he could have had a .20 for as much as the article tells us.

Indubitably
To decimal

I'm not sure what you are saying. .14 & .08 is higher than .04

My only point is that this guy could have been .20 or for the sake of argument, 2.04... this would still be above .04

The article simply doesn't say what he came in at, only that it was higher than .04

This guy could have been crazy drunk. Though the wording of the headline and the discussion seems to lean that he was right at .04 or just somehow above.

*shrugs

P.S. What I find most interesting is how many people on the internet don't nuance well. *)

I must disagree, I find 0.10 BAC to be an appropriately arbitrary level of nuance

Looks like the hyperbole was only brought to answer your initial derpin'


Pardon me, sir.

I infinitived.
 
2013-01-04 08:09:31 PM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: Fear_and_Loathing: It used to be 8 hours bottle to throttle.



That's a good rule for driving as well as flying.


It is however inadequate .... a healthy adult liver an process around 20ml of ethanol per hour, and the rate does not vary by how wasted you are. A BAC of 0.04 dulls reaction times and cognitive processes considerably. It is totally irresponsible to fly any aircraft at that level, far less a commercial jet with innocent passengers. A more reasonable limit would be 0.01 which is stone cold sober with a margin for error.
 
2013-01-04 08:12:15 PM  

mark12A: I REALLY needed a drink last week flying to Rochester. I was on one of those little CRJ's out of Philly. We lifted off, gear came up, we were climbing out, when suddenly, without warning, the plane rolls into a 45 degree bank to the right, dfoes like a 2g turn, then rolls 90 degrees to the left, into a left 45 degree 2g turn, then levels out and continues climbing. I ripped my headphones off (was listening to the Jonny Quest theme, as I usually do during takeoffs) and damm near pissed my pants. What was it? A controls failure, crazy pilot fight in the cockpit??

No. A flight of geese flew in front of the plane after liftoff and the pilot went all Top Gunny to avoid them. I was impressed at the roll rate the pilot was able to generate with the CRJ. Almost as quick as the Pitts Special I used to fly.


The post 9/11 run up the Potomac to DCA was pretty interesting in those ... they seem to have a lot less manouevrability than a 737.
 
2013-01-04 08:13:57 PM  

WillyChase: Hebjamn: Simplified Regulation :

91.17 (a) No flying :
(1) within 8 hours of drinking
(2) while under the influence
(3) - drug related -
(4) with a BAC > .04

My understanding is that there's an implied 'Or' between 1, 2, 3 and 4.

It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and not be under the influence.

It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and be considered under the influence


Then you don't understand the effects of alcohol very well. Try playing your favourite car video game at 0.04 and see what happens to the score.
 
2013-01-04 08:17:40 PM  

happyleper: Baryogenesis: If I have to turn off my electronics due to the tiny chance of interference then the pilots should have a zero BAC.

/about to board a plane

Using alcohol-based mouthwash is enough to blow something greater than zero. While I'm not okay with my pilot knocking back a few before the flight, I am okay with him having fresh breath.


Which is why a valid breath test requires a 15 minute wait after consuming anything orally.

/ breath not admissable in most US jurisdictions anyway
 
2013-01-04 08:24:26 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Fear_and_Loathing: Lol airlines are now putting iPads in the cockpit, it is all a crock.

Airlines are allowing them to be used in aircraft that have been tested for those particular devices, in that particular location.


Not to mention on board cellular service .... apparently back in the 1980s there were analog phones which could splatter into the ATC band which is around 145Mhz FM and also analogue. Chances of interference from a modern digital cellphone is very small indeed.

Your big horizon can dink with cell networks during climb out and approach.
 
2013-01-04 08:26:06 PM  

mark12A: when suddenly, without warning, the plane rolls into a 45 degree bank to the right, dfoes like a 2g turn, then rolls 90 degrees to the left, into a left 45 degree 2g turn, then levels out and continues climbing. I ripped my headphones off (was listening to the Jonny Quest theme, as I usually do during takeoffs) and damm near pissed my pants. What was it? A controls failure, crazy pilot fight in the cockpit??


I was flying a couple months ago when two minutes after takeoff the pilot suddenly pitches over really agressively into a 20 degree nose low dive. Since I was in the back of the plane if I hadn't been belted I'd have bounced off the ceiling when he stabilized it in the dive. Yes I also almost pissed my pants, but I wasn't wondering what happened, there are only two things that will cause a pilot to do that kind of maneuvering in a commercial aircraft, birds as in your case or TCAS warning as in mine (which I confirmed afterward). TCAS started screaming dive dive at them, they're required to respond as if they're flying a Pitts, and the Scully incident certainly has every commercial pilot doing bat-turns if they see anything flying that's not made of metal.
 
2013-01-04 08:27:02 PM  

Indubitably: warfieldred: Indubitably: Hoblit: Hoblit: I want to point out that .08 is higher than .04 as well as a .14

The article doesn't mention what his actually was, only that the law was .04 and he was arrested for possibly being somewhere above that. So he could have had a .20 for as much as the article tells us.

Indubitably
To decimal

I'm not sure what you are saying. .14 & .08 is higher than .04

My only point is that this guy could have been .20 or for the sake of argument, 2.04... this would still be above .04

The article simply doesn't say what he came in at, only that it was higher than .04

This guy could have been crazy drunk. Though the wording of the headline and the discussion seems to lean that he was right at .04 or just somehow above.

*shrugs

P.S. What I find most interesting is how many people on the internet don't nuance well. *)

I must disagree, I find 0.10 BAC to be an appropriately arbitrary level of nuance

Looks like the hyperbole was only brought to answer your initial derpin'

Pardon me, sir.

I infinitived.


Viking-arms up and defiantly raised!

To rape and pillage, figuratively, Lambeau Field!

To Viking
 
2013-01-04 08:27:41 PM  

mark12A: I REALLY needed a drink last week flying to Rochester. I was on one of those little CRJ's out of Philly. We lifted off, gear came up, we were climbing out, when suddenly, without warning, the plane rolls into a 45 degree bank to the right, dfoes like a 2g turn, then rolls 90 degrees to the left, into a left 45 degree 2g turn, then levels out and continues climbing. I ripped my headphones off (was listening to the Jonny Quest theme, as I usually do during takeoffs) and damm near pissed my pants. What was it? A controls failure, crazy pilot fight in the cockpit??

No. A flight of geese flew in front of the plane after liftoff and the pilot went all Top Gunny to avoid them. I was impressed at the roll rate the pilot was able to generate with the CRJ. Almost as quick as the Pitts Special I used to fly.


Give me five seconds of terror over three hours of the normal aggravations of flying any day.

I was on a normal, boring flight once, coming in for a normal, boring landing, when all of a sudden the plane (apparently) slewed hard to the left and dropped like a stone for about ten feet, landing hard before swerving back to the right. People screamed, because there was no warning whatsoever.

Within three seconds, the captain or first officer was on the PA system. "Textbook landing. Ladies and gentlemen, I just want to say that was absolutely textbook. Good job, Mike." From his tone of voice it wasn't really clear if he was giving his co-pilot shiat, or if he really was trying to explain something, but because of the tension it was the funniest thing anyone on the plane had ever heard.

Other pilots have told me it was probably a cross-wind landing, where you come in at a funky angle to the runway. But it was Delta, which has a hub in Minneapolis, so maybe he was just drunk!

/cathartic story bro
 
2013-01-04 08:28:26 PM  

Indubitably: Indubitably: warfieldred: Indubitably: Hoblit: Hoblit: I want to point out that .08 is higher than .04 as well as a .14

The article doesn't mention what his actually was, only that the law was .04 and he was arrested for possibly being somewhere above that. So he could have had a .20 for as much as the article tells us.

Indubitably
To decimal

I'm not sure what you are saying. .14 & .08 is higher than .04

My only point is that this guy could have been .20 or for the sake of argument, 2.04... this would still be above .04

The article simply doesn't say what he came in at, only that it was higher than .04

This guy could have been crazy drunk. Though the wording of the headline and the discussion seems to lean that he was right at .04 or just somehow above.

*shrugs

P.S. What I find most interesting is how many people on the internet don't nuance well. *)

I must disagree, I find 0.10 BAC to be an appropriately arbitrary level of nuance

Looks like the hyperbole was only brought to answer your initial derpin'

Pardon me, sir.

I infinitived.

Viking-arms up and defiantly raised!

To rape and pillage, figuratively, Lambeau Field!

To Viking


We will break the cheese upon your backsides.
 
2013-01-04 08:42:06 PM  

semiotix: W. T. Fark: That's about 2 beers. Much more lenient than I would expect

Ehhh... if you were a decent-sized guy and you drank them slow. Neglecting metabolism (which is to say, neglecting time), BAC is basically just a question of alcohol divided by mass, which is why Stacy Stakowski totally got a DUI even though she only had like one and a half Zimas at Todd's party and left after half an hour because Todd was practically farking Denise Fetzer in the hallway to his parents' bedroom and he knew she was there and so now she like can't even get her license back until she's 19 and that's only because her dad is a tax lawyer and called in a favor with the district magistrate to get her charged with vehicular reckless endangerment instead.


So... Stacy is available?
 
2013-01-04 08:53:44 PM  

WillyChase: It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and be considered under the influence


It's hard to understand how so many people in this thread think 0.04 is nothing but if someone drives at 0.08 it's "ZOMG!!!1111!!! You're gonna kill someone!"
 
2013-01-04 09:08:21 PM  

taurusowner: happyleper: Using alcohol-based mouthwash is enough to blow something greater than zero. While I'm not okay with my pilot knocking back a few before the flight, I am okay with him having fresh breath.

Not entirely true. Mouth wash leaves "Residual Mouth Alcohol" which can throw off readings in Preliminary Breath Test equipment. Standard procedure for any actionable breath test is at least 15 minutes where nothing is introduced into the mouth (both ways). Chewing gum, smoking, mints, vomiting, etc all reset the time. Additionally, the Datamaster breath tester used at the police station is the only device that is admissible in court in most states for demonstrating the presence of alcohol in the blood stream. The wait time before using the Datamaster is similar.

So yes, mouth wash will artificially spike a PBT reading within a few minutes of using it, and only a few minutes. But no, you cannot be arrested or convicted for a false PBT reading caused by mouth wash. SOP for using PBTs and Datamasters are set as to prevent Residual Mouth Alcohol from having any bearing.


Rules are different for commercial license holders. Probable cause is all that is necessary for license suspension/revocation even if the evidence does not allow for criminal conviction. For example in Indiana the breath test only establishes probable cause for a blood draw, which is the real evidence used in court. If a CDL holder flunks the breath test but passes the blood draw, that CDL is going away for a while based solely on the breath test. I'd imagine it is the same for any federally regulated license holder.
 
2013-01-04 09:23:24 PM  
SCARY TAG

!!!TERROR ALERT: PERIWINKLE!!!

SCARY TAG

!FOX NEWS ALERT!

PILOT FOUND WITH MORE THAN 0.00000% ALCOHOL IN HIS SYSTEM

MY ZERO TOLERANCE BRAIN DRIVEN BY A COMPLETELY IMPRACTICAL VIEWPOINT OF THE WORLD IS EXPLODING

SCARY TAG
 
2013-01-04 09:53:23 PM  
Dude was out late doing shots, probably slept a few hours max, and still reeked in the AM when heading into work. People smelled it, he blew trace amounts. The blood test will probably come back showing very little residual alcohol.

I still think he's a dumbass because I'm not worth a shiat the morning after a long night, either...I would not even think of flying a plane. Which I don't know how to do anyway, but that's another issue altogether.
 
2013-01-04 09:58:17 PM  

ParaHandy: Prank Call of Cthulhu: Fear_and_Loathing: It used to be 8 hours bottle to throttle.

That's a good rule for driving as well as flying.

It is however inadequate .... a healthy adult liver an process around 20ml of ethanol per hour, and the rate does not vary by how wasted you are. A BAC of 0.04 dulls reaction times and cognitive processes considerably. It is totally irresponsible to fly any aircraft at that level, far less a commercial jet with innocent passengers. A more reasonable limit would be 0.01 which is stone cold sober with a margin for error.


.01 is not 'a margin of error' it's within tolerances for the device, generally speaking. It's also 'you looked at a beer 15 hours ago' level of 'intoxication', and is highly suspect for false positives on such a low tolerance. You're effectively saying 'don't drink 24-48 hours or more' before flight, which would mean no drinking, ever, for most of these people. And while your 'health typical organ processes X at Y rate with little variance' schtick is nice, and probably kills at MADD, it's pointless. If the guy is an alcoholic, then .04 is below even baseline for him, let alone being into slowed reflexes or dysfunction rates. Alcohol impairment varies wildly by experience and consumpation averages for the person, along with other factors (male/female, genetic origin, etc.). Pilots, being responsible for hundreds of lives, have a more stringent requirement. I think .04 is reasonable, it's not restrictive to the 'out partying hard' types, but will filter out the 'out partying hard every night and still going' alcoholics.

Happy Hours: WillyChase: It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and be considered under the influence

It's hard to understand how so many people in this thread think 0.04 is nothing but if someone drives at 0.08 it's "ZOMG!!!1111!!! You're gonna kill someone!"


Math, how the @#$% does that work? It's almost like .08 is double .04, or something. I don't know man, that's weird stuff.
 
2013-01-04 10:18:55 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Fear_and_Loathing: Lol airlines are now putting iPads in the cockpit, it is all a crock.

Airlines are allowing them to be used in aircraft that have been tested for those particular devices, in that particular location.


Yeah, because there are so many flight critical electronic components located in the passenger cabin, versus the cockpit.
 
2013-01-04 10:37:15 PM  

Gleeman: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Fear_and_Loathing: Lol airlines are now putting iPads in the cockpit, it is all a crock.

Airlines are allowing them to be used in aircraft that have been tested for those particular devices, in that particular location.

Yeah, because there are so many flight critical electronic components located in the passenger cabin, versus the cockpit.


You'd be surprised at how many critical components are stashed under the passenger cabins. Radio antennas, the radios themselves, on and on. Most of what's on the flight deck are just the display units for everything that can be anywhere on the plane.
 
2013-01-04 10:41:00 PM  

kroonermanblack: Happy Hours: WillyChase: It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and be considered under the influence

It's hard to understand how so many people in this thread think 0.04 is nothing but if someone drives at 0.08 it's "ZOMG!!!1111!!! You're gonna kill someone!"

Math, how the @#$% does that work? It's almost like .08 is double .04, or something. I don't know man, that's weird stuff.


Flying a plane with potentially hundreds of people on-board at hundreds of miles per hour thousadns of feet in the air for your job is exactly the same thing as someone driving a couple miles home from a restaurant though, right?
 
2013-01-04 11:08:22 PM  
.04 BAC and I'm totally farked.

/I don't drink much.
//I blame my low tolerance on the minuscule amount of Choctaw blood in my veins.
///Can't handle my firewater.
 
2013-01-04 11:09:00 PM  

BolloxReader: semiotix:
Ehhh... if you were a decent-sized guy and you drank them slow. Neglecting metabolism (which is to say, neglecting time), BAC is basically just a question of alcohol divided by mass, which is why Stacy Stakowski totally got a DUI even though she only had like one and a half Zimas at Todd's party and left after half an hour because Todd was practically farking Denise Fetzer in the hallway to his parents' bedroom and he knew she was there and so now she like can't even get her license back until she's 19 and that's only because her dad is a tax lawyer and called in a favor with the district magistrate to get her charged with vehicular reckless endangerment instead.
So... Stacy is available?


Not only that, she can't drive. So she's at your mercy.
 
2013-01-04 11:26:31 PM  

iron_city_ap: They don't trust the general public to do the same and can't expect the 90 year old flight attendants to know the difference between an iPod and an iPhone or any other wifi device, so they trust the general public to do the same make everybody turn them off


FTFY, drive through, no charge this time
 
2013-01-04 11:34:59 PM  

buzzcut73: Gleeman: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Fear_and_Loathing: Lol airlines are now putting iPads in the cockpit, it is all a crock.

Airlines are allowing them to be used in aircraft that have been tested for those particular devices, in that particular location.

Yeah, because there are so many flight critical electronic components located in the passenger cabin, versus the cockpit.

You'd be surprised at how many critical components are stashed under the passenger cabins. Radio antennas, the radios themselves, on and on. Most of what's on the flight deck are just the display units for everything that can be anywhere on the plane.


This. It drives me NUTS every time someone brings up this argument.

Yes, the plane's instruments will survive interference from a few ipads and cells phones being active during takeoff. Yes, it will still probably be OK if every damned person is using one. Is there a ~chance~ that a few hundred radio emitting devices could screw with an instrument or two during flight? HELL YES. You are inside a giant wave-guide. your little 1 watt transmitter is bouncing signals all over the place. Ever picked up a truckers CB on your car radio when he was right next to you? Similar principle.

I just wish the populous would understand that it isn't certain doom and gloom with the electronic rules. It's a potential risk. If there is a snowballs chance in hell that something could cause your plane to crash, even a 1 in 10,000 chance, why on earth would you fight so badly to take that chance?

Also think about it this way. If they allowed cell phones in flight, it wouldn't be long before some frequent flyer asshole sneaks a jammer on board because he's sick of listening to people jabber all night on his red-eye. It's easier just to let the rules be.
 
2013-01-04 11:37:22 PM  

Gleeman: Yeah, because there are so many flight critical electronic components located in the passenger cabin, versus the cockpit.


Actually, yes.
Various places right under your feet, in the cargo bay
Comm lines between the cabin display an controls and the engines behind you, and the control surfaces on the wing next to you.
Data sensors all over.

So yes. There are flight critical components in places other than the cockpit.
 
2013-01-04 11:38:03 PM  

Fear_and_Loathing:
Remember, the pilots usually arrive at the crash scene first.  Passengers forget that.


It they were smarter pilots, they would give it a little flap before smacking earth....


///I keed, I keed.
 
2013-01-05 01:12:56 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-05 02:30:58 AM  

downstairs: Duke_leto_Atredes: .04 is the limit for any commercial license. Pilot trucker limo driver bus driver.

filter: What are the limits for a CDL? I thought OTR drivers had .02 as a limit. How are pilots allowed more?

My buddy has a small landscaping business.  Has to have a CDL (or something similar) to drive his truck.  He told me its 0.02.  Maybe its a state thing.


had a california CDL for 15 years, its .08 for class c and .04 for class A here and Bus drivers limmo drivers CA just used Federal standards for comercial license standards. the .04 is the standard for the license type so whatever Vehical you are operating thats the limit not just the truck bus limo also your car you drive to work and a drug test every 2 years for the medical card and once a year for trucking companies or after an accident. that being said theere were a lot drivers out there high as a kite, drive safe now.
 
2013-01-05 03:00:12 AM  

semiotix: mark12A: I REALLY needed a drink last week flying to Rochester. I was on one of those little CRJ's out of Philly. We lifted off, gear came up, we were climbing out, when suddenly, without warning, the plane rolls into a 45 degree bank to the right, dfoes like a 2g turn, then rolls 90 degrees to the left, into a left 45 degree 2g turn, then levels out and continues climbing. I ripped my headphones off (was listening to the Jonny Quest theme, as I usually do during takeoffs) and damm near pissed my pants. What was it? A controls failure, crazy pilot fight in the cockpit??

No. A flight of geese flew in front of the plane after liftoff and the pilot went all Top Gunny to avoid them. I was impressed at the roll rate the pilot was able to generate with the CRJ. Almost as quick as the Pitts Special I used to fly.

Give me five seconds of terror over three hours of the normal aggravations of flying any day.

I was on a normal, boring flight once, coming in for a normal, boring landing, when all of a sudden the plane (apparently) slewed hard to the left and dropped like a stone for about ten feet, landing hard before swerving back to the right. People screamed, because there was no warning whatsoever.

Within three seconds, the captain or first officer was on the PA system. "Textbook landing. Ladies and gentlemen, I just want to say that was absolutely textbook. Good job, Mike." From his tone of voice it wasn't really clear if he was giving his co-pilot shiat, or if he really was trying to explain something, but because of the tension it was the funniest thing anyone on the plane had ever heard.

Other pilots have told me it was probably a cross-wind landing, where you come in at a funky angle to the runway. But it was Delta, which has a hub in Minneapolis, so maybe he was just drunk!

/cathartic story bro


Last week we had an aborted landing- maybe 10m from the ground in extreme winds. Seemed like it took an hour to climb, circle, queue up and finally land.
 
2013-01-05 07:11:56 AM  

BolloxReader: taurusowner: happyleper: Using alcohol-based mouthwash is enough to blow something greater than zero. While I'm not okay with my pilot knocking back a few before the flight, I am okay with him having fresh breath.

Not entirely true. Mouth wash leaves "Residual Mouth Alcohol" which can throw off readings in Preliminary Breath Test equipment. Standard procedure for any actionable breath test is at least 15 minutes where nothing is introduced into the mouth (both ways). Chewing gum, smoking, mints, vomiting, etc all reset the time. Additionally, the Datamaster breath tester used at the police station is the only device that is admissible in court in most states for demonstrating the presence of alcohol in the blood stream. The wait time before using the Datamaster is similar.

So yes, mouth wash will artificially spike a PBT reading within a few minutes of using it, and only a few minutes. But no, you cannot be arrested or convicted for a false PBT reading caused by mouth wash. SOP for using PBTs and Datamasters are set as to prevent Residual Mouth Alcohol from having any bearing.

Rules are different for commercial license holders. Probable cause is all that is necessary for license suspension/revocation even if the evidence does not allow for criminal conviction. For example in Indiana the breath test only establishes probable cause for a blood draw, which is the real evidence used in court. If a CDL holder flunks the breath test but passes the blood draw, that CDL is going away for a while based solely on the breath test. I'd imagine it is the same for any federally regulated license holder.


Well yeah, I'm sure both the company and the FAA have different BAC limits for pilots than drivers do. But the point stands that you're not really actually going to get dinged on a PBT for having used mouthwash. That's an urban myth. SOP for roadside and police station breath tests are designed to rule out Residual Mouth Alcohol.
 
2013-01-05 07:35:08 AM  

Corvus: WillyChase: It's hard to understand how you could have a BAC of .04 and be considered under the influence

I actually have a breathalyzer I go out with.


I'm dating a toaster.

She's Canadian, and totally hot.
 
2013-01-05 09:10:53 AM  
ooooh scarryy

listen to that SYNtheSIZER!!

img.youtube.com
 
2013-01-05 02:54:31 PM  
I have several friends that take Breathalyzers out with them, they get tested.  I have a BAC calculator o my cell phone, just to give a heads up, but if I go out, I leave it to two beers over 2 hours and then coke, the beverage.  I no longer get tested, but it ain't worth the hassle and 30 years of habit is hard to break.  That and I have a letter in my wallet, from a Doctor, that says I couldn't pass a roadside test sober.  Just take me in for a breath or blood test.
 
2013-01-05 02:57:15 PM  
BTW, I'm good with that.  If I feel the need to drink, I will do it at home. Where it is mostly harmless.
 
Displayed 137 of 137 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
Advertisement
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report