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(CNN)   Chevy Volt sales triple in 2012, bringing the total to ... 3   (money.cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Kelley Blue Book, Chevrolet Cruze, gasoline engines, plug-in car, sticker price, fuel efficiency  
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8207 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jan 2013 at 2:27 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-01-04 02:34:24 PM  
5 votes:
It's not designed to be a mass market product, with a custom engine that involves some manufacturing processes we'd rather move away from. The long term plan is to learn from the Volt 1.0 and move in the direction of parts commonality with other small class platforms (Chevy Cruze) to bring the price down.

The Volt is offered with the mindset of "Some people will pay a premium for performance, some people will pay a premium for luxury, and some people will pay for this." You don't expect a 750iL to sell at the level as a Civic, same with the Volt.

/and some people actually live a life style where the car fits them perfectly
//GM engineer
/the general belief has always been "no real hope of mass market love for it until it hovers around 30k"
2013-01-04 02:56:02 PM  
3 votes:

Ed_Severson: The team I worked for last year used Chevrolet engines so we got a few Volts to drive around for the year. They were pretty boring. About 33 miles on a full charge, top speed limited o 101 mph, no soul at all.

At $4k? Maybe. At $40k? fark off.


Unless you are a professional race-car driver, you have no business, whatsoever, doing higher than 101MPH.
2013-01-04 05:06:02 PM  
2 votes:

Ed_Severson: Soup4Bonnie: THIS has nothing to do with a Volt, but wow am I impressed.

You shouldn't be. There are lots of people who work in motorsports. Despite the reputation, most of us can keep it in our pants when we're on the road with other people so the constant finger wagging from the Internet traffic cops who don't know anything we don't gets tiresome.


Except you're missing the point- the Volt isn't designed for motorsports. Nobody's being an "internet traffic cop" here. You just wanted to tell everyone what a bad-ass racecar driver you are. We're all duly impressed.
2013-01-04 04:54:57 PM  
2 votes:

Ed_Severson: mr pity: So you're arguing that an electric commuter car should be better suited for use on a race track?

Not at all. I'm simply saying the limiter is unnecessary, and in my opinion, not very logical in its implementation. Will that be an issue for 99.9% of the suckers people who buy one? Of course not. But it was an annoyance to me, so I listed it as one.


By a used one and flash the limited. Limits come OEM as part of the reason we are able to offer a warranty. In fact you are welcome to remove it from your new purchase, so long as you don't mind us voiding the warranty as part of the deal. After market tunes can remove them (Trifecta on a Camaro as an example). Just be sure to upgrade the other parts of your car needed to allow you to safely travel at that speed.

As for our refusal to sell you factory stock without a limiter, go talk to the guys who do liability. I'm sure they need a laugh for the day.

/also we limit based on the stock tire, that way we don't get sued when someone does 130 and blows out his tires that weren't intended to go past 118
2013-01-04 04:40:59 PM  
2 votes:
Ed_Severson:
Once again ... It wasn't on a public road, and at no point have I ever claimed to have driven 100 mph on a public road, much less regularly. Go lecture somebody else about vehicle safety.

So you're arguing that an electric commuter car should be better suited for use on a race track? Do you think that's the usage case envisioned by the manufacturer?
2013-01-04 02:53:25 PM  
2 votes:
texanjeff: "Why all the volt hate?"

People who feel compelled to judge one another based on their purchasing decisions prefer conspicuous activity.
( e.g. the conspicuous consumption of an SUV or sportscar. The conspicuous frugality of sleeping on the floor and eating Ramen. )
So anything considered and understated is inherently undesirable and it's just a matter of their finding some justification for the emotional conclusion.
2013-01-04 02:36:37 PM  
2 votes:

BadReligion: ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.

Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.


Was going to mention that. At the very least, she should add some Sta-bil or other fuel stabilizer to prevent gas varnishing.
2013-01-04 02:34:59 PM  
2 votes:

Angry Monkey:

One of these is one of the best selling cars in America.


The Prius debuted around 17k, but supposedly cost about 35k to make. Toyota took a huge loss to get the line started. GM doesn't have that luxury at the moment, though maybe soon.

35k in 1997 is about 47k right now. Give it a few years and the Volt will be down to a reasonable level. Luckily we have early adopters helping us getting to this point.

In short, your comparisons suck and you should feel bad.
2013-01-04 02:11:03 PM  
2 votes:
I've got a 2012 Volt.  Love the thing.  Lease deals really seal it, since the depreciation is so low.  Great fun to drive.  It really feel like a luxury car in handling and low end torque.  If you use electricity, you pay about $1.50-2.50 a gallon equivalent gas, and if your commute is right, you really never use gas unless taking a long trip.  And if your employer lets you plug in at work, or you have a garage in an apartment complex on their circuit, your electricity is free.

/But teh Obama!
2013-01-04 01:48:46 PM  
2 votes:
Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.
2013-01-04 01:09:18 PM  
2 votes:
Volt = $42,000
Prius = $24,000

One of these is one of the best selling cars in America.
2013-01-04 11:48:51 PM  
1 vote:

texanjeff: Why all the volt hate?

Never understood it. Seems like the same guys who want energy independance simultaneously believe we only should use gasoline for transportation. Of course the same guys are against giving out birth control to poor people while simultaneously giving welfare to the same poor people who had babies because they couldn't afford birth control so there you go.


Because people (read: idiots) like to make fun of companies for crap they were doing 20+ years ago. GM, Ford, and Microsoft all immediately come to mind.

"Their current stuff is really good."

"HAHAHAHA THOSE COMPANIES SUCK. I REMEMBER MY CHEVY 95 USED TO BLUE SCREEN WHEN IT WAS COLD OUT AND I WANTED TO EMAIL TO WORK!!!"

"Have you tried their latest offerings?"

"NAH, I DON'T GIVE MY MONEY TO M$HEVY AFTER WHAT HAPPENED TO ME YEARS AGO!"

"But their stuff is good..."

"SHILL! SHILL!"
GM could make a buttplug that could give you an IQ of 200, make you never have to shiat, ever, and include a supermodel wife, for free... and people would still bring up how their car didn't work well 25 years ago.
2013-01-04 11:37:46 PM  
1 vote:

Ima4nic8or: Unless they make huge improvements to the technology (note that the physics of batteries has not changed in centuries) I dont see how these can really take off.


The bold part there is false, FYI.

And if I were in the market for a new vehicle, I could lease a new Volt or LEAF for effectively less than I could lease a new Prius. Price and affordability are not the same thing.
=Smidge=
2013-01-04 04:26:00 PM  
1 vote:
GM screwed up with the marketing of a really cool vehicle type.

Instead of building the volt as a warmed over Malibu styled Chevrolet - they should have built the Cadillac Volt.

Add some leather and Caddy cues to the interior - it looks pretty cool as is:
www.autoguide.com

Add some Edgy Cadillac "art and science" styling:
1.bp.blogspot.com
OK maybe not that sleek but you get the idea.

...then advertise it as "the standard of the world". Sell it for about what it goes for now.

Nobody would complain about spending $40k on a Caddy, and the 0-60 and handling deficiencies don't apply to something that gets infinite MPG for short trips.

Instead, a boring ass beige Chebby that people buy in spite of its plebeian looks.
2013-01-04 04:16:54 PM  
1 vote:

mr pity: , for one, think a top speed of 101 is great for a car that doesn't need gasoline for the most common commuting usage cases.


If the GPS speed lock thing ever goes through, people are going to lose their shiat. Basically the idea is that your car will have a top speed capped around 100 mph. That way if you're on the interstate and you suddenly need to accelerate for some safety reason (truck beside you blew a tire and you want to pull the hell away from it for example) you still have some room. However otherwise you'll have a limiter on your engine, unless you arrive at a racing track who has its GPS coords on file. That point the limiter will go from whatever limit the government set to whatever limit the engineers think you can do before your engine blows the fark up.

Also it won't be something you can just "flash off". People talk about that, but they fail to grasp that auto engineers have two ways of doing something. There is the half ass way (likely because I intend to flash this feature off my personal vehicle ASAP) and then there is the "We do this right or the NHTSA rapes us" way.

/as an example, on a modern car your odometer is all electric. Try to reflash it back to 0, we did that the right way because it would destroy the resale value if people were tampering with them left and right
//low resale can force a sticker price drop since it becomes less desirable to the people who flip cars every three years
2013-01-04 04:16:40 PM  
1 vote:

Ed_Severson: Lexx: Come on, tell me - what jurisdiction do you live in?

Sure thing, Barney Fife.

Unless it's the AUTOBAHN I have a $2 coin in my pocket that says the cops would LOVE to know you like to drive north of 100MPH.

Who doesn't?

Has it occurred to you yet that you have no idea how the 101 mph limit was verified, where it happened, or who did it? Or are you just content to ignorantly continue in your false assumption that someone you've never met is a reckless driver?

Let me spell it out for you, nimrod. I work with professional race drivers -- guys that are safer than you at twice your speed. I know how to drive a farking car. I know how to do it safely, at an appropriate speed, and I know exactly when and where to get my driving jollies, and trust me, there's no shortage of opportunities to do exactly that without driving on a public road or endangering anyone who didn't volunteer to go along for the ride.

Perhaps most importantly, I'm not answerable to you or any other panic-stricken asswipe who thinks it's his job to play traffic police, and what I do on a closed circuit is none of your goddamned business unless you're flagging the corners or driving along with me.

So, you can take your condescending lecture circuit somewhere else and go fark yourself with a rusty pitchfork. It was a comment about the car, not about my driving habits. Shut the fark up. You're out of your element here.


why do you care that the top speed of a car designed for regular, public road use is "only" 101?
2013-01-04 04:04:56 PM  
1 vote:

Noticeably F.A.T.: Popcorn Johnny: The Prius is a hipster piece of shiat.

There you have it folks. A brilliant, very well articulated argument against electric vehicles. It's truly amazing that anyone would even try to debate an argument as finely crafted as this.


I love my Prius. It stands out at the range, where all the good-buddies are driving F-150s, Hummers and Jeeps. They laugh until I tell them a) I get 50 MPG, and b)they see the Prius completely leave their Tonka trucks in the rearview mirror off the starting line (thanks Power Mode!). Yes, I've drag raced a Prius. Nothing beats electric drive for 'all torque all the time'. Do I have complaints? eh, I wish the ass was bigger so I could haul more stuff. When I pull out the arsenal to go to the range, it gets a little crowded, but overall I'm quite satisfied with it.
2013-01-04 04:04:41 PM  
1 vote:

Ed_Severson: Lexx: Tell me again how you have any business, whatsoever, doing 100MPH?

I don't live in Ontario.

Tell me again why you think it's your job to lecture me about something you don't know anything about.


Hi, Ed.

Your profile says you're from Indiana.

I'm all for staying out of the left lane for you (drive however you want and above all let faster traffic through), but 100 mph is more than 40 percent over the interstate speed limit in Indiana. I'm sure you have some kind of justification for needing to drive that fast, but try to bear in mind that most people don't share your enthusiasm for high-speed hijinks.

If you really think you need to drive over 100 mph everywhere you go, good luck with your future endeavors and/or awesome insurance premiums. I, for one, think a top speed of 101 is great for a car that doesn't need gasoline for the most common commuting usage cases.
2013-01-04 03:54:38 PM  
1 vote:
I have to commute through hellish traffic - I have to go past apple, google and facebook (TRIPLE NAMEDROP FATALITY).

But - there's carpool lane all the way! So, 3 year lease on a Leaf - $130/mo, $3K down. Return it in 3 years when the technology has improved.

No engine noise - it's *really* easy to do 85 without realizing it.
2013-01-04 03:53:14 PM  
1 vote:

BadReligion: 101 is a fine top speed for a car such as this. It is when manufacturers put speed limiters on performance cars that annoys me. My A6 has a 130MPH limiter for some reason, and even though I have never gotten it over 110, it bugs me that it is there.


It is annoying, on all vehicles in my opinion. If you feel compelled to cut the car's nuts off, just design less car.
2013-01-04 03:46:05 PM  
1 vote:

ringersol: YodaBlues: "That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though."

Also a shame?
The visual design has no personality and the ICE can still directly drive the wheels at highway speeds. Meaning it still has a drive train and all the associated costs, complexity and bullshiat.

Kinda pisses all over the original vision.


ICE only connects to the universal gearset when running off of ICE.  ICE runs a gen which power car electrically and can in some cases link into universal gear to provide higher efficiency.  But when the pack still has charge it's 100% electric drive.
2013-01-04 03:42:53 PM  
1 vote:

Thunderpipes: When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.


Innovation (including the auto industry as one shining example) built this country, and there is no way to look back on the auto bailout and honestly come to the conclusion that it was anything other than money well spent.

You should try adjusting your views to fit the facts instead of the other way around.
2013-01-04 03:36:14 PM  
1 vote:

Elroydb: ha-ha-guy: Elroydb: fireclown: Thunderpipes: When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.

I think you are confusing them with Fisker.

The US Gov't still owns a majority of shares in General Motors. The "bailout" is paid back but the government still has $30-40 billion invested in the company. They can't sell these shares because since the last stock offering the stock price has dropped and they would have to admit to taking a rather significant loss for "rescuing" a bad business.

Hey the Chinese government was offering us above market price for our stock back in 2008, as long as we assured them they got all the IP and the tech centers in the deal. Would you have preferred that?

/General Dynamics didn't escape out clutches that long ago
//I was part of GM Defense prior to the 2003 purchase of it by GD, I taught have taught the Chinese some fun things
/or taken early retirement, probably the early retirement
I would have PREFERRED that GM go to bankruptcy court just like almost every other business in the history of this country instead of having intervention because of their cozy relationship with the government

Or better yet do what Ford did so they wouldn't have to go into bankruptcy


We would not have gone bankrupt and gutted our company. We would have accepted suitcases full of cash from the Chicoms and given them IP and kept chugging along.

As for Ford, that is just plain stupid. Ford pulled billions in private loans right before the banking crisis and barely survived. They had no capital on hand to absorb our liabilities. Plus that just creatures a monopoly of American manufacturers since Chrysler was sold off to Fiat.

Finally, we had access to 50 billion from various lines of credit prior to the 2008 banking collapse. The plan by Lutz, Wagoneer, and Henderson was that we would not becoming profitable until 2013 at the earliest, realistically 2014. So the money was to keep us going. That was because previous CEOs had not invested enough in car development and we were behind the curve. As it stood they felt we needed to be running more design teams than our sales could support if we had any hope of catching up in some markets. Ford was doing the same thing. The thing was Ford was a lot smarter and got to the bank before the housing bubble farked up the credit market. We showed up afterwards and found out our lines of credit had been trashed due to the everyone suddenly becoming a fiscal turtle.

The government opted to step in be the source of the money for a variety of reasons. Had they not, I'd be typing this from my new office in the Wuhan Joint Auto Manufacturing Technical Center, all hail Chairman Mao and such.
2013-01-04 03:25:37 PM  
1 vote:

Popcorn Johnny: The Prius is a hipster piece of shiat.


Mine is just shy of ten years old, has 130K still gets 50 mpg regularly.

It's never needed a single repair.

Been through three sets of tires, replaced a few burnt-out bulbs, that's it. Drives like the day we bought it.

Pretty damn good for a "piece of shiat".

Or, maybe, just maybe, you're just an asswhole who hasn't the first clue what he's yammering about?

Like this guy:

JohnAnnArbor: That's intentional, so that it sticks out in a crowd, and everyone can see how "pure" you are; brilliant plan, actually.


Yep, it's got nothing to do with being the second-most aerodynamic car ever built.

I took a trip with three people from DC to Wilmington, NC in mine. We had so much luggage that we put a roof rack on it. Mileage dropped from the usual 50 to 32 mpg. Went right back to 50 after we got home and removed the rack.

But you betcha, it's all about how it *looks* and what it *says* about me.

Christ, ten years, a proven technology, and we still have to hear this crap?

I blame you, South Park. Thanks a lot.
2013-01-04 03:17:07 PM  
1 vote:
JohnAnnArbor: "why doesn't anyone market an electric-only car to the little old lady crowd"

1. The older generation grew up on large cars and still generally associates size with safety and old brands that are intentionally slow to change, with quality.
2. Little old ladies tend to already own a car that's been paid off for 20 years, with all of 10,000 miles on it, and don't have a lot of spare scratch for a new car for no good reason.
3. When you drive 100 miles a month, cutting cost per mile isn't as big a deal.
4. They're not uniformly frightened of technology, but they're nearly-uniformly suspicious of it's utility/necessity.
5. They do. They're called "Neighborhood Electric Vehicles" and retirement communities are lousy with them.
2013-01-04 03:07:57 PM  
1 vote:

Thunderpipes: When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.


I think you are confusing them with Fisker.
2013-01-04 03:04:39 PM  
1 vote:

Ed_Severson: Lexx: Unless you are a professional race-car driver, you have no business, whatsoever, doing higher than 101MPH.

Thanks, mom.


Ontario, Canada:
50+km/hr over (Stunt Driving/Speed Racing) = 6 points + immediate 7 day licence suspension and car impoundment + up to 2 year additional licence suspension upon conviction. Fines can range from $2,000 to $10,000.

Tell me again how you have any business, whatsoever, doing 100MPH?
2013-01-04 03:03:13 PM  
1 vote:

BadReligion: Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.


The Volt requires premium grade gasoline. The fuel system is also sealed above and beyond what you'll find on a typical vehicle to help prevent evaporation loss and fouling.

Lastly, the Volt keeps track of the fuel in the tank and will use some of it up on purpose, needed or not, so you put a bit more in and help keep things fresh. They call this the "engine fuel and maintenance mode." It also serves to circulate the oil and generally keep things functional if the engine hasn't run in a long time.

So at the end of the day, the Volt needs gasoline, regardless of how far or how often you drive.
=Smidge=
2013-01-04 03:02:48 PM  
1 vote:

JohnAnnArbor: OK, so riddle me this: why doesn't anyone market an electric-only car to the little old lady crowd?


Because the sales figures of the Nissan Leaf would not justify the cost of making an electric only EV for the little old lady crowd. It would take significantly more than minimal redesign due to the fact we can't use the gas motor to assist, it would be a whole new electric engine and then trying to sell it to a crowd who was planning on hanging onto that old Buick until they died. Cutting out just the gas engine would not significant drop sticker price either (gas engines are easy, we know how to make those cheap). It would leave us with an expensive car that we could promise no more than 100 miles out of to try to sell to a very niche market.

Better to make the Volt, sell it to everyone, and maybe in a few generations we can make an all battery car with a 250 mile range and sell it to the light use crowd.

/Chrysler had an all electric idea that they scrapped since they figured the sales wouldn't justify the cost
//technology improves incrementally
2013-01-04 02:52:55 PM  
1 vote:

The Fifth Dentist: YodaBlues: ringersol: BadReligion: "Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas."

The Volt will actually run the engine from time to time to mitigate the problems that stem from having a modern ICE sitting idle for months.

Look at that, you're right. From wiki:
"Also the engine management system monitors the time between engine running and it is programmed to prompt the driver to run past the 40-mile (64 km) before recharging in order to consume some gasoline. If the driver does not run on gasoline, the system will automatically run the maintenance mode which starts the engine to consume some of the aging fuel and circulate the fluids within the engine."

That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though.

Pretty neat until it fires itself up in your enclosed garage...yeah , no thanks


The engine only goes in maintenance mode while your driving it numbnuts.
2013-01-04 02:51:29 PM  
1 vote:

ha-ha-guy: It's not designed to be a mass market product, with a custom engine that involves some manufacturing processes we'd rather move away from. The long term plan is to learn from the Volt 1.0 and move in the direction of parts commonality with other small class platforms (Chevy Cruze) to bring the price down.

The Volt is offered with the mindset of "Some people will pay a premium for performance, some people will pay a premium for luxury, and some people will pay for this." You don't expect a 750iL to sell at the level as a Civic, same with the Volt.

/and some people actually live a life style where the car fits them perfectly
//GM engineer
/the general belief has always been "no real hope of mass market love for it until it hovers around 30k"


OK, so riddle me this: why doesn't anyone market an electric-only car to the little old lady crowd? My mom recalls an old lady that drove a 1910 electric around town into the late 1960s. Got her where she needed to go, which was never far. Very little maintenance (which is good for old ladies who hate going to service stations to get ripped off). Maybe an electric-only Volt would sell even less than the regular one, but the development's been done for the "normal" Volt, so only minimal re-design would be needed. The whole Volt thing is a market experiment; may as well extend it a little. (Heck, even have the dealerships offer gas rental cars for long trips if Granny drives three hours once every three months to see the grandkids.)
2013-01-04 02:50:35 PM  
1 vote:

YodaBlues: ringersol: BadReligion: "Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas."

The Volt will actually run the engine from time to time to mitigate the problems that stem from having a modern ICE sitting idle for months.

Look at that, you're right. From wiki:
"Also the engine management system monitors the time between engine running and it is programmed to prompt the driver to run past the 40-mile (64 km) before recharging in order to consume some gasoline. If the driver does not run on gasoline, the system will automatically run the maintenance mode which starts the engine to consume some of the aging fuel and circulate the fluids within the engine."

That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though.


Pretty neat until it fires itself up in your enclosed garage...yeah , no thanks
2013-01-04 02:37:13 PM  
1 vote:

BadReligion: ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.

Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.


Makes gas good for a year, at least
ecx.images-amazon.com
2013-01-04 02:34:43 PM  
1 vote:
Why all the volt hate?

Never understood it. Seems like the same guys who want energy independance simultaneously believe we only should use gasoline for transportation. Of course the same guys are against giving out birth control to poor people while simultaneously giving welfare to the same poor people who had babies because they couldn't afford birth control so there you go.
2013-01-04 02:33:22 PM  
1 vote:
It tripled to a total of 3 sold?

So 0.75 were sold in 2011 and 2.25 were sold in 2012?
2013-01-04 02:32:12 PM  
1 vote:
Or, they sold 23,461 which is slightly more than 3.


Angry Monkey: Volt = $42,000
Prius = $24,000

One of these is one of the best selling cars in America.


Chevy has been offering leases at $289/mo which is much better than buying the car outright right now.
2013-01-04 02:29:42 PM  
1 vote:

ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.


Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.
 
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