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(CNN)   Chevy Volt sales triple in 2012, bringing the total to ... 3   (money.cnn.com) divider line 190
    More: Interesting, Kelley Blue Book, Chevrolet Cruze, gasoline engines, plug-in car, sticker price, fuel efficiency  
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8196 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jan 2013 at 2:27 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-04 01:09:18 PM  
Volt = $42,000
Prius = $24,000

One of these is one of the best selling cars in America.
 
2013-01-04 01:48:46 PM  
Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.
 
2013-01-04 02:08:00 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it.


Is she too stupid to remember how to put gas in her car?

i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-04 02:11:03 PM  
I've got a 2012 Volt.  Love the thing.  Lease deals really seal it, since the depreciation is so low.  Great fun to drive.  It really feel like a luxury car in handling and low end torque.  If you use electricity, you pay about $1.50-2.50 a gallon equivalent gas, and if your commute is right, you really never use gas unless taking a long trip.  And if your employer lets you plug in at work, or you have a garage in an apartment complex on their circuit, your electricity is free.

/But teh Obama!
 
2013-01-04 02:29:42 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.


Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.
 
2013-01-04 02:31:41 PM  
Subby must not live in my area, I see that many a day. Definitely see move Volts than Leafs. Hell, I probably see more Teslas that Leafs
 
2013-01-04 02:32:12 PM  
Or, they sold 23,461 which is slightly more than 3.


Angry Monkey: Volt = $42,000
Prius = $24,000

One of these is one of the best selling cars in America.


Chevy has been offering leases at $289/mo which is much better than buying the car outright right now.
 
2013-01-04 02:33:22 PM  
It tripled to a total of 3 sold?

So 0.75 were sold in 2011 and 2.25 were sold in 2012?
 
2013-01-04 02:34:24 PM  
It's not designed to be a mass market product, with a custom engine that involves some manufacturing processes we'd rather move away from. The long term plan is to learn from the Volt 1.0 and move in the direction of parts commonality with other small class platforms (Chevy Cruze) to bring the price down.

The Volt is offered with the mindset of "Some people will pay a premium for performance, some people will pay a premium for luxury, and some people will pay for this." You don't expect a 750iL to sell at the level as a Civic, same with the Volt.

/and some people actually live a life style where the car fits them perfectly
//GM engineer
/the general belief has always been "no real hope of mass market love for it until it hovers around 30k"
 
2013-01-04 02:34:43 PM  
Why all the volt hate?

Never understood it. Seems like the same guys who want energy independance simultaneously believe we only should use gasoline for transportation. Of course the same guys are against giving out birth control to poor people while simultaneously giving welfare to the same poor people who had babies because they couldn't afford birth control so there you go.
 
2013-01-04 02:34:44 PM  
I know they've sold more than 3 Volts because the Federal Government is forcing the Armed Forces to buy them for use on base.
 
2013-01-04 02:34:59 PM  

Angry Monkey:

One of these is one of the best selling cars in America.


The Prius debuted around 17k, but supposedly cost about 35k to make. Toyota took a huge loss to get the line started. GM doesn't have that luxury at the moment, though maybe soon.

35k in 1997 is about 47k right now. Give it a few years and the Volt will be down to a reasonable level. Luckily we have early adopters helping us getting to this point.

In short, your comparisons suck and you should feel bad.
 
2013-01-04 02:36:37 PM  

BadReligion: ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.

Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.


Was going to mention that. At the very least, she should add some Sta-bil or other fuel stabilizer to prevent gas varnishing.
 
2013-01-04 02:37:13 PM  

BadReligion: ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.

Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.


Makes gas good for a year, at least
ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2013-01-04 02:39:02 PM  
BadReligion: "Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas."

The Volt will actually run the engine from time to time to mitigate the problems that stem from having a modern ICE sitting idle for months.
 
2013-01-04 02:39:42 PM  
They cost 50K here in Canada....fark that.
 
2013-01-04 02:40:09 PM  

BadReligion: ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.

Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.


Yeah, not really though.
 
2013-01-04 02:42:34 PM  
The Prius is a hipster piece of shiat.
 
2013-01-04 02:43:37 PM  
I would consider one since I commute about 6 miles a day round trip, but then I prefer my self respect.... and a $400/month car payment is a little more than I want.
 
2013-01-04 02:43:38 PM  
I'd like to see some stats on how that thing handles the Minnesota winter. I'm due for a new car this year and am considering a Volt (which are actually available here now), but I get the feeling that a dealer will tell me that it works "just fine".

I have a Civic hybrid right now. Thing gets 45-50mpg in the summer and 25 in the winter if I'm lucky.
 
2013-01-04 02:43:48 PM  
So there are 31,132 people completely devoid of taste, style, or substance in the world. Or at least when it comes to their choice in automobiles. Got it.

I'll take my fossil fuel burning six-speed manual rice rocket any day of the week over any hybrid or full electric car, aside from a tesla, of course. But who has the money for a Tesla anyway? I sure don't.
 
2013-01-04 02:43:49 PM  

ringersol: BadReligion: "Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas."

The Volt will actually run the engine from time to time to mitigate the problems that stem from having a modern ICE sitting idle for months.


Look at that, you're right. From wiki:
"Also the engine management system monitors the time between engine running and it is programmed to prompt the driver to run past the 40-mile (64 km) before recharging in order to consume some gasoline. If the driver does not run on gasoline, the system will automatically run the maintenance mode which starts the engine to consume some of the aging fuel and circulate the fluids within the engine."

That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though.
 
2013-01-04 02:45:33 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.


--------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------------------------------------
Are you serious? Pay twice the price for the car, and you have to replace the battery for $5,000 in five or six years. You and your friends (I don't care how smart you think they are) are just prepaying for your gas.


/Besides that,,,isn't all that plugged in energy thing coming from a coal power plant. Much less efficent than something that burns gasoline locally!
/And now...I have to go to lunch.
 
2013-01-04 02:46:23 PM  
The team I worked for last year used Chevrolet engines so we got a few Volts to drive around for the year. They were pretty boring. About 33 miles on a full charge, top speed limited o 101 mph, no soul at all.

At $4k? Maybe. At $40k? fark off.
 
2013-01-04 02:47:00 PM  

Minarets: Chevy has been offering leases at $289/mo which is much better than buying the car outright right now.


Leasing is highly preferred as that way the company can always opt not to renew lease if turns out the engineers farked something up on generation one. Until the cars prove themselves in consumer hands there is some resistance to just letting them off into the wild and having to recall 500,000 of them later due to a fark up. The general idea is attractive lease options and at the end of the lease if GM prefers to feed the car into the car crusher as opposed to selling them off, we'll over the leasee owner loyalty credit and an attractive offer on the next generation platform.

/there are still active EV-1s in GM hands, I've taken them home for weekends before, however we pulled them from the consumer market due to concerns over how they'd hold up in the long run and not wanting to have to do a bunch of recalls on them 6 years later
 
2013-01-04 02:47:39 PM  
The Prius is ugly... wouldn't be caught dead in one of those...
also, I prefer American cars (I know, I know, some of you will call me dumb for this)
Had a Honda years ago, ok car, boring as hell, just as expensive as its American counterpart
I would love a Volt... I see at least 4 a day in Suburban Houston..

/Have a 2008 Chevy Malibu, will either trade in for Volt or new Malibu
 
2013-01-04 02:48:13 PM  
If I wasn't poor, I'd buy one.
 
2013-01-04 02:48:24 PM  

Jayone: /Besides that,,,isn't all that plugged in energy thing coming from a coal power plant. Much less efficent than something that burns gasoline locally!


How do you figure?
 
2013-01-04 02:50:35 PM  

YodaBlues: ringersol: BadReligion: "Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas."

The Volt will actually run the engine from time to time to mitigate the problems that stem from having a modern ICE sitting idle for months.

Look at that, you're right. From wiki:
"Also the engine management system monitors the time between engine running and it is programmed to prompt the driver to run past the 40-mile (64 km) before recharging in order to consume some gasoline. If the driver does not run on gasoline, the system will automatically run the maintenance mode which starts the engine to consume some of the aging fuel and circulate the fluids within the engine."

That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though.


Pretty neat until it fires itself up in your enclosed garage...yeah , no thanks
 
2013-01-04 02:51:29 PM  

ha-ha-guy: It's not designed to be a mass market product, with a custom engine that involves some manufacturing processes we'd rather move away from. The long term plan is to learn from the Volt 1.0 and move in the direction of parts commonality with other small class platforms (Chevy Cruze) to bring the price down.

The Volt is offered with the mindset of "Some people will pay a premium for performance, some people will pay a premium for luxury, and some people will pay for this." You don't expect a 750iL to sell at the level as a Civic, same with the Volt.

/and some people actually live a life style where the car fits them perfectly
//GM engineer
/the general belief has always been "no real hope of mass market love for it until it hovers around 30k"


OK, so riddle me this: why doesn't anyone market an electric-only car to the little old lady crowd? My mom recalls an old lady that drove a 1910 electric around town into the late 1960s. Got her where she needed to go, which was never far. Very little maintenance (which is good for old ladies who hate going to service stations to get ripped off). Maybe an electric-only Volt would sell even less than the regular one, but the development's been done for the "normal" Volt, so only minimal re-design would be needed. The whole Volt thing is a market experiment; may as well extend it a little. (Heck, even have the dealerships offer gas rental cars for long trips if Granny drives three hours once every three months to see the grandkids.)
 
2013-01-04 02:52:30 PM  

The Fifth Dentist: YodaBlues: ringersol: BadReligion: "Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas."

The Volt will actually run the engine from time to time to mitigate the problems that stem from having a modern ICE sitting idle for months.

Look at that, you're right. From wiki:
"Also the engine management system monitors the time between engine running and it is programmed to prompt the driver to run past the 40-mile (64 km) before recharging in order to consume some gasoline. If the driver does not run on gasoline, the system will automatically run the maintenance mode which starts the engine to consume some of the aging fuel and circulate the fluids within the engine."

That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though.

Pretty neat until it fires itself up in your enclosed garage...yeah , no thanks


Who doesn't like Carbon Monoxide poisoning?
 
2013-01-04 02:52:55 PM  

The Fifth Dentist: YodaBlues: ringersol: BadReligion: "Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas."

The Volt will actually run the engine from time to time to mitigate the problems that stem from having a modern ICE sitting idle for months.

Look at that, you're right. From wiki:
"Also the engine management system monitors the time between engine running and it is programmed to prompt the driver to run past the 40-mile (64 km) before recharging in order to consume some gasoline. If the driver does not run on gasoline, the system will automatically run the maintenance mode which starts the engine to consume some of the aging fuel and circulate the fluids within the engine."

That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though.

Pretty neat until it fires itself up in your enclosed garage...yeah , no thanks


The engine only goes in maintenance mode while your driving it numbnuts.
 
2013-01-04 02:53:25 PM  
texanjeff: "Why all the volt hate?"

People who feel compelled to judge one another based on their purchasing decisions prefer conspicuous activity.
( e.g. the conspicuous consumption of an SUV or sportscar. The conspicuous frugality of sleeping on the floor and eating Ramen. )
So anything considered and understated is inherently undesirable and it's just a matter of their finding some justification for the emotional conclusion.
 
2013-01-04 02:54:28 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: The Prius is a hipster piece of shiat.


There you have it folks. A brilliant, very well articulated argument against electric vehicles. It's truly amazing that anyone would even try to debate an argument as finely crafted as this.
 
2013-01-04 02:54:33 PM  

YodaBlues: The Fifth Dentist: YodaBlues: ringersol: BadReligion: "Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas."

The Volt will actually run the engine from time to time to mitigate the problems that stem from having a modern ICE sitting idle for months.

Look at that, you're right. From wiki:
"Also the engine management system monitors the time between engine running and it is programmed to prompt the driver to run past the 40-mile (64 km) before recharging in order to consume some gasoline. If the driver does not run on gasoline, the system will automatically run the maintenance mode which starts the engine to consume some of the aging fuel and circulate the fluids within the engine."

That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though.

Pretty neat until it fires itself up in your enclosed garage...yeah , no thanks

The engine only goes in maintenance mode while your driving it numbnuts.


Then it drives to Sarah Connor's house.
 
2013-01-04 02:56:02 PM  

Ed_Severson: The team I worked for last year used Chevrolet engines so we got a few Volts to drive around for the year. They were pretty boring. About 33 miles on a full charge, top speed limited o 101 mph, no soul at all.

At $4k? Maybe. At $40k? fark off.


Unless you are a professional race-car driver, you have no business, whatsoever, doing higher than 101MPH.
 
2013-01-04 02:56:07 PM  
Its like buying a first-generation anything. A very large percentage of those interested will assume it is full of kinks and wait for the 2nd generation (or 3rd). Once the 2nd generation is out, it will be much clearer whether this will really take off.
 
2013-01-04 02:56:42 PM  

sararenne: The Prius is ugly... wouldn't be caught dead in one of those...


That's intentional, so that it sticks out in a crowd, and everyone can see how "pure" you are; brilliant plan, actually. The subtle hybrids don't sell nearly as well.

sararenne: also, I prefer American cars (I know, I know, some of you will call me dumb for this)


Not at all, I do too, even with all the UAW shenanigans.
 
2013-01-04 02:57:17 PM  

jethro1138: I'd like to see some stats on how that thing handles the Minnesota winter. I'm due for a new car this year and am considering a Volt (which are actually available here now), but I get the feeling that a dealer will tell me that it works "just fine".

I have a Civic hybrid right now. Thing gets 45-50mpg in the summer and 25 in the winter if I'm lucky.


It's basically a 3,700 pound front wheel drive car. So it has the same benefits and fall backs as any other heavy FWD car. It will push the front wheels down to pavement for traction nicely, but the downside is it will also push down and beach itself on ruts. One general factor is with the rear wheels set so far back, you don't have weight in the trunk that makes the car pivot on its rear wheels (ex: weight in the trunk makes the front wheels lift up, more a problem on pickups when people load the bed improperly). The weight is either on the front wheels or between the front and rear wheels.

That said, you're pretty much farked in deep snow. Also keep in mind electric you don't have a torque curve you're used to from a gas engine, so when you're dealing with snow and you hit the "gas", you might get an unpleasant result. Not that the Volt produces that much torque.

As a side note, for winter MPG, you can click on "Hold Mode" when dicking around in the snow. That tells the 2013 Volt not to use the battery, so you don't suck it dry getting yourself going on a slippery hill. You can just outsource that job to the gas engine and the car perform more like you are used to in terms of revving the gas engine to go places.
 
2013-01-04 02:58:15 PM  
I'll buy one as soon as I can afford it.

/no seriously, I will
 
2013-01-04 02:59:29 PM  

Lexx: Unless you are a professional race-car driver, you have no business, whatsoever, doing higher than 101MPH.


Thanks, mom.
 
2013-01-04 03:00:01 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.


We bought one in Sept. Best. Car. Ever. I use it mostly around town and it takes about 2 months before you have to do a fill up. Great car.
 
2013-01-04 03:00:30 PM  

ha-ha-guy: jethro1138: I'd like to see some stats on how that thing handles the Minnesota winter. I'm due for a new car this year and am considering a Volt (which are actually available here now), but I get the feeling that a dealer will tell me that it works "just fine".

I have a Civic hybrid right now. Thing gets 45-50mpg in the summer and 25 in the winter if I'm lucky.

It's basically a 3,700 pound front wheel drive car. So it has the same benefits and fall backs as any other heavy FWD car. It will push the front wheels down to pavement for traction nicely, but the downside is it will also push down and beach itself on ruts. One general factor is with the rear wheels set so far back, you don't have weight in the trunk that makes the car pivot on its rear wheels (ex: weight in the trunk makes the front wheels lift up, more a problem on pickups when people load the bed improperly). The weight is either on the front wheels or between the front and rear wheels.

That said, you're pretty much farked in deep snow. Also keep in mind electric you don't have a torque curve you're used to from a gas engine, so when you're dealing with snow and you hit the "gas", you might get an unpleasant result. Not that the Volt produces that much torque.

As a side note, for winter MPG, you can click on "Hold Mode" when dicking around in the snow. That tells the 2013 Volt not to use the battery, so you don't suck it dry getting yourself going on a slippery hill. You can just outsource that job to the gas engine and the car perform more like you are used to in terms of revving the gas engine to go places.


Or, you could just buy a Subaru....
 
2013-01-04 03:02:48 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: OK, so riddle me this: why doesn't anyone market an electric-only car to the little old lady crowd?


Because the sales figures of the Nissan Leaf would not justify the cost of making an electric only EV for the little old lady crowd. It would take significantly more than minimal redesign due to the fact we can't use the gas motor to assist, it would be a whole new electric engine and then trying to sell it to a crowd who was planning on hanging onto that old Buick until they died. Cutting out just the gas engine would not significant drop sticker price either (gas engines are easy, we know how to make those cheap). It would leave us with an expensive car that we could promise no more than 100 miles out of to try to sell to a very niche market.

Better to make the Volt, sell it to everyone, and maybe in a few generations we can make an all battery car with a 250 mile range and sell it to the light use crowd.

/Chrysler had an all electric idea that they scrapped since they figured the sales wouldn't justify the cost
//technology improves incrementally
 
2013-01-04 03:02:56 PM  

please: BadReligion: ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.

Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.

Yeah, not really though.


Yeah, really though.


Dumbass.
 
2013-01-04 03:03:13 PM  

BadReligion: Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.


The Volt requires premium grade gasoline. The fuel system is also sealed above and beyond what you'll find on a typical vehicle to help prevent evaporation loss and fouling.

Lastly, the Volt keeps track of the fuel in the tank and will use some of it up on purpose, needed or not, so you put a bit more in and help keep things fresh. They call this the "engine fuel and maintenance mode." It also serves to circulate the oil and generally keep things functional if the engine hasn't run in a long time.

So at the end of the day, the Volt needs gasoline, regardless of how far or how often you drive.
=Smidge=
 
2013-01-04 03:04:39 PM  

Ed_Severson: Lexx: Unless you are a professional race-car driver, you have no business, whatsoever, doing higher than 101MPH.

Thanks, mom.


Ontario, Canada:
50+km/hr over (Stunt Driving/Speed Racing) = 6 points + immediate 7 day licence suspension and car impoundment + up to 2 year additional licence suspension upon conviction. Fines can range from $2,000 to $10,000.

Tell me again how you have any business, whatsoever, doing 100MPH?
 
2013-01-04 03:05:18 PM  
When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.
 
2013-01-04 03:05:51 PM  
YodaBlues: "That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though."

Also a shame?
The visual design has no personality and the ICE can still directly drive the wheels at highway speeds. Meaning it still has a drive train and all the associated costs, complexity and bullshiat.

Kinda pisses all over the original vision.
 
2013-01-04 03:06:02 PM  

texanjeff: Why all the volt hate?

Never understood it. Seems like the same guys who want energy independance simultaneously believe we only should use gasoline for transportation. Of course the same guys are against giving out birth control to poor people while simultaneously giving welfare to the same poor people who had babies because they couldn't afford birth control so there you go.



It's an extension of Prius hate. Owning my trusty '02 has been like defending an effing masters thesis. If I have to explain the "dust to dust" article to some chucklefark one more time, I'm going to kick a puppy. I think it's because Prii and electric cars bring up two things that people dislike: change and hippies.
 
2013-01-04 03:06:44 PM  

jethro1138: I'd like to see some stats on how that thing handles the Minnesota winter. I'm due for a new car this year and am considering a Volt (which are actually available here now), but I get the feeling that a dealer will tell me that it works "just fine".

I have a Civic hybrid right now. Thing gets 45-50mpg in the summer and 25 in the winter if I'm lucky.


I saw a Volt flying down 100 South after that sticky snow fell last week. He seemed to be doing just fine.

/SKOL VIKINGS!
 
2013-01-04 03:07:48 PM  

BadReligion: Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.


Except they engineered for that. Non-argument. citation

duffblue:

Yeah, really though.


Dumbass.

Careful with that axe, Eugene.
 
2013-01-04 03:07:57 PM  

Thunderpipes: When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.


I think you are confusing them with Fisker.
 
2013-01-04 03:09:02 PM  
I have driven both the Volt and the Prius a lot the past year (my company has both in the fleet). In my opinion the Volt is clearly the better car in every way, but you do pay for it. The prius feels like an economy car, the Volt doesn't (and isn't).

If I was in the market for another car it would be a no-brainer. I drive less than 30 miles to an from work and there is a plug-in station at work. I would be paying zero for gas or electricity using a Volt for five days a week.
 
2013-01-04 03:09:31 PM  

please: BadReligion:

Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.

Yeah, not really though.


So we both know you're completely and fundamentally wrong. It is impossible to have learned gas stays good in your car tank for longer than 6 months because it's just not true. So it's possible you knew gas goes bad and are just being a jackass. But I don't think so. I think it's more likely you honestly had no idea either way, which is perfectly fine. You could have learned something from his post, you could have googled it, you could have ignored it, or you could have thought he was wrong and walked away. These all would have been fine. But you didn't. Instead you decided to spend 2 seconds of brain power to wildly guess and post contradicting him. I'm just curious why you chose that route.
 
2013-01-04 03:09:35 PM  
ha-ha-guy:It's basically a 3,700 pound front wheel drive car. So it has the same benefits and fall backs as any other heavy FWD car.

Oh I'm really only wondering about the MPG. I'm a fairly safe driver and tend not to drive a whole lot in crazy snow (telecommuting rocks). If the snow's too crazy for my daily commute to the dog park, we just go to the park down the street (:

That hold mode thing is a good note though, thanks.
 
2013-01-04 03:10:10 PM  

ha-ha-guy: JohnAnnArbor: OK, so riddle me this: why doesn't anyone market an electric-only car to the little old lady crowd?

Because the sales figures of the Nissan Leaf would not justify the cost of making an electric only EV for the little old lady crowd. It would take significantly more than minimal redesign due to the fact we can't use the gas motor to assist, it would be a whole new electric engine and then trying to sell it to a crowd who was planning on hanging onto that old Buick until they died. Cutting out just the gas engine would not significant drop sticker price either (gas engines are easy, we know how to make those cheap). It would leave us with an expensive car that we could promise no more than 100 miles out of to try to sell to a very niche market.

Better to make the Volt, sell it to everyone, and maybe in a few generations we can make an all battery car with a 250 mile range and sell it to the light use crowd.

/Chrysler had an all electric idea that they scrapped since they figured the sales wouldn't justify the cost
//technology improves incrementally


Good to know. Thanks.
 
2013-01-04 03:10:37 PM  
Each Chevy Volt comes with a $7500 tax rebate. Average income of Volt owners is $175,000. Talk about the middle class subsidizing the rich so they can feel better about themselves
 
2013-01-04 03:10:54 PM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: I would consider one since I commute about 6 miles a day round trip, but then I prefer my self respect.... and a $400/month car payment is a little more than I want.


Please get a bicycle
 
2013-01-04 03:14:54 PM  

Lexx: Tell me again how you have any business, whatsoever, doing 100MPH?


I don't live in Ontario.

Tell me again why you think it's your job to lecture me about something you don't know anything about.
 
2013-01-04 03:16:02 PM  

texanjeff: Why all the volt hate?


I don't hate the Volt, or the Prius.

However, I do hate their drivers, who insist on being in the left lane. You've got a slow car, dude - keep the *#&$ out of the fast lane.

And - if you DO drive a Volt/Prius at 85+ MPH - I think you're missing the point of a gas-efficient vehicle. I also seriously doubt the ability of either car to do emergency maneuvers at that speed.
 
2013-01-04 03:16:36 PM  

Ed_Severson: Lexx: Tell me again how you have any business, whatsoever, doing 100MPH?

I don't live in Ontario.

Tell me again why you think it's your job to lecture me about something you don't know anything about.


101 is a fine top speed for a car such as this. It is when manufacturers put speed limiters on performance cars that annoys me. My A6 has a 130MPH limiter for some reason, and even though I have never gotten it over 110, it bugs me that it is there.
 
2013-01-04 03:16:53 PM  
The single biggest factor driving the sales increase, according to both GM and industry analysts, was the Volt's increased popularity in car-clogged California.

So basically they have stopped marketing them to Americans
 
2013-01-04 03:17:07 PM  
JohnAnnArbor: "why doesn't anyone market an electric-only car to the little old lady crowd"

1. The older generation grew up on large cars and still generally associates size with safety and old brands that are intentionally slow to change, with quality.
2. Little old ladies tend to already own a car that's been paid off for 20 years, with all of 10,000 miles on it, and don't have a lot of spare scratch for a new car for no good reason.
3. When you drive 100 miles a month, cutting cost per mile isn't as big a deal.
4. They're not uniformly frightened of technology, but they're nearly-uniformly suspicious of it's utility/necessity.
5. They do. They're called "Neighborhood Electric Vehicles" and retirement communities are lousy with them.
 
2013-01-04 03:18:09 PM  
So when I'm driving to work on an interstate highway of gravel, I'll thank you guys for not paying your share of the highway road use tax.

Actually, after I hit the lottery, the armored car or the All American Lawsuit payday, I plan on electificating the Miata. It's been done. Just need to get the range up.
 
2013-01-04 03:18:41 PM  

Ed_Severson: Lexx: Tell me again how you have any business, whatsoever, doing 100MPH?

I don't live in Ontario.

Tell me again why you think it's your job to lecture me about something you don't know anything about.


Come on, tell me - what jurisdiction do you live in? Unless it's the AUTOBAHN I have a $2 coin in my pocket that says the cops would LOVE to know you like to drive north of 100MPH.
 
2013-01-04 03:18:42 PM  

fireclown: Thunderpipes: When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.

I think you are confusing them with Fisker.


The US Gov't still owns a majority of shares in General Motors. The "bailout" is paid back but the government still has $30-40 billion invested in the company. They can't sell these shares because since the last stock offering the stock price has dropped and they would have to admit to taking a rather significant loss for "rescuing" a bad business.
 
2013-01-04 03:22:25 PM  

Elroydb: fireclown: Thunderpipes: When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.

I think you are confusing them with Fisker.

The US Gov't still owns a majority of shares in General Motors. The "bailout" is paid back but the government still has $30-40 billion invested in the company. They can't sell these shares because since the last stock offering the stock price has dropped and they would have to admit to taking a rather significant loss for "rescuing" a bad business.


Hey the Chinese government was offering us above market price for our stock back in 2008, as long as we assured them they got all the IP and the tech centers in the deal. Would you have preferred that?

/General Dynamics didn't escape out clutches that long ago
//I was part of GM Defense prior to the 2003 purchase of it by GD, I taught have taught the Chinese some fun things
/or taken early retirement, probably the early retirement
 
2013-01-04 03:22:38 PM  
I would love a volt or similar car if I had a garage. as is, I park on the street (a 200 year old street) and there isn't away to charge when I get home. I need around 45 Miles on a charge to do all my daily driving. if it were the cost of a similarly featured 4dr sedan, and I had the charging ability, I'd be all over it.
 
2013-01-04 03:23:30 PM  

Fo Shiz: I've got a 2012 Volt. .  If you use electricity, you pay about $1.50-2.50 a gallon equivalent gas, and if your commute is right, you really never use gas unless taking a long trip.

/But teh Obama!


Do you have the citation of these figures? And where are you. Thinkin' 'bout it, but truth is hard to root out. You a Chevy dealer?

YodaBlues: BadReligion: ecmoRandomNumbers:
Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.

Was going to mention that. At the very least, she should add some Sta-bil or other fuel stabilizer to prevent gas varnishing.


So... stabilized pump gas is on the horizon? A boon for lawn mowers and go karts
 
2013-01-04 03:25:37 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: The Prius is a hipster piece of shiat.


Mine is just shy of ten years old, has 130K still gets 50 mpg regularly.

It's never needed a single repair.

Been through three sets of tires, replaced a few burnt-out bulbs, that's it. Drives like the day we bought it.

Pretty damn good for a "piece of shiat".

Or, maybe, just maybe, you're just an asswhole who hasn't the first clue what he's yammering about?

Like this guy:

JohnAnnArbor: That's intentional, so that it sticks out in a crowd, and everyone can see how "pure" you are; brilliant plan, actually.


Yep, it's got nothing to do with being the second-most aerodynamic car ever built.

I took a trip with three people from DC to Wilmington, NC in mine. We had so much luggage that we put a roof rack on it. Mileage dropped from the usual 50 to 32 mpg. Went right back to 50 after we got home and removed the rack.

But you betcha, it's all about how it *looks* and what it *says* about me.

Christ, ten years, a proven technology, and we still have to hear this crap?

I blame you, South Park. Thanks a lot.
 
2013-01-04 03:29:13 PM  

ha-ha-guy: Elroydb: fireclown: Thunderpipes: When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.

I think you are confusing them with Fisker.

The US Gov't still owns a majority of shares in General Motors. The "bailout" is paid back but the government still has $30-40 billion invested in the company. They can't sell these shares because since the last stock offering the stock price has dropped and they would have to admit to taking a rather significant loss for "rescuing" a bad business.

Hey the Chinese government was offering us above market price for our stock back in 2008, as long as we assured them they got all the IP and the tech centers in the deal. Would you have preferred that?

/General Dynamics didn't escape out clutches that long ago
//I was part of GM Defense prior to the 2003 purchase of it by GD, I taught have taught the Chinese some fun things
/or taken early retirement, probably the early retirement

I would have PREFERRED that GM go to bankruptcy court just like almost every other business in the history of this country instead of having intervention because of their cozy relationship with the government

Or better yet do what Ford did so they wouldn't have to go into bankruptcy
 
2013-01-04 03:29:31 PM  

Elroydb: fireclown: Thunderpipes: When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.

I think you are confusing them with Fisker.

The US Gov't still owns a majority of shares in General Motors. The "bailout" is paid back but the government still has $30-40 billion invested in the company. They can't sell these shares because since the last stock offering the stock price has dropped and they would have to admit to taking a rather significant loss for "rescuing" a bad business.


FYI, the Treasury announced last month that they are divesting from GM,and there will almost certainly be a loss at the end of several billion dollars, which is a small price to pay for saving the US auto industry.
 
2013-01-04 03:30:52 PM  

Elroydb: fireclown: Thunderpipes: When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.

I think you are confusing them with Fisker.

The US Gov't still owns a majority of shares in General Motors. The "bailout" is paid back but the government still has $30-40 billion invested in the company. They can't sell these shares because since the last stock offering the stock price has dropped and they would have to admit to taking a rather significant loss for "rescuing" a bad business.


They're projected to take a ~$20B loss in the bailout of GM. Bailouts don't always work out for the best. But then again, they made ~22B from the AIG bailout. A ~2B net profit from bailouts (there are others of course, just counting these two) isn't exactly a bad record. Not to mention it prevented a very unstable mass layoff.
 
2013-01-04 03:30:58 PM  

lennavan: So we both know you're completely and fundamentally wrong.


Boy, should you have refreshed before you posted or what?

It's not like the solution to that problem hasn't posted at least three times above you, already....

But you got to lecture somebody (again) so you got that going for ya....
 
2013-01-04 03:33:41 PM  
I'm going to be in the market for a car this summer. I'm mainly going to be driving to and from the train station so I can get to work. That's about 4 miles each way. I'm almost certainly going to get a Volt, or maybe a Ford Focus electric, provided that there are still the good lease deals for them.

I'd prefer a Tesla Model S, but that's still too rich for me.

/The Leaf is just too ugly.
 
2013-01-04 03:34:19 PM  

ringersol: 5. They do. They're called "Neighborhood Electric Vehicles" and retirement communities are lousy with them.


If you're talking about glorified golf carts, the big problem is that you can't take them out on the main roads.
 
2013-01-04 03:36:14 PM  

Elroydb: ha-ha-guy: Elroydb: fireclown: Thunderpipes: When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.

I think you are confusing them with Fisker.

The US Gov't still owns a majority of shares in General Motors. The "bailout" is paid back but the government still has $30-40 billion invested in the company. They can't sell these shares because since the last stock offering the stock price has dropped and they would have to admit to taking a rather significant loss for "rescuing" a bad business.

Hey the Chinese government was offering us above market price for our stock back in 2008, as long as we assured them they got all the IP and the tech centers in the deal. Would you have preferred that?

/General Dynamics didn't escape out clutches that long ago
//I was part of GM Defense prior to the 2003 purchase of it by GD, I taught have taught the Chinese some fun things
/or taken early retirement, probably the early retirement
I would have PREFERRED that GM go to bankruptcy court just like almost every other business in the history of this country instead of having intervention because of their cozy relationship with the government

Or better yet do what Ford did so they wouldn't have to go into bankruptcy


We would not have gone bankrupt and gutted our company. We would have accepted suitcases full of cash from the Chicoms and given them IP and kept chugging along.

As for Ford, that is just plain stupid. Ford pulled billions in private loans right before the banking crisis and barely survived. They had no capital on hand to absorb our liabilities. Plus that just creatures a monopoly of American manufacturers since Chrysler was sold off to Fiat.

Finally, we had access to 50 billion from various lines of credit prior to the 2008 banking collapse. The plan by Lutz, Wagoneer, and Henderson was that we would not becoming profitable until 2013 at the earliest, realistically 2014. So the money was to keep us going. That was because previous CEOs had not invested enough in car development and we were behind the curve. As it stood they felt we needed to be running more design teams than our sales could support if we had any hope of catching up in some markets. Ford was doing the same thing. The thing was Ford was a lot smarter and got to the bank before the housing bubble farked up the credit market. We showed up afterwards and found out our lines of credit had been trashed due to the everyone suddenly becoming a fiscal turtle.

The government opted to step in be the source of the money for a variety of reasons. Had they not, I'd be typing this from my new office in the Wuhan Joint Auto Manufacturing Technical Center, all hail Chairman Mao and such.
 
2013-01-04 03:36:14 PM  

Ed_Severson: The team I worked for last year used Chevrolet engines so we got a few Volts to drive around for the year. They were pretty boring. About 33 miles on a full charge, top speed limited o 101 mph, no soul at all.

At $4k? Maybe. At $40k? fark off.


If you're a race car guy, I could see how it would be a little under-powered. 120mph is the start of interesting. But, for the average commuter, high torque with high mileage in the holy grail. How does it do in the corners? I hate FWD, though it because I never figured out how to turn the things...they just plow, no matter how you set it up. Do they have a FWD school? 4k is only "maybe", even for your grocery-getter? Would it be a good average car for $30k? 25K?
 
2013-01-04 03:37:00 PM  

ringersol: JohnAnnArbor: "why doesn't anyone market an electric-only car to the little old lady crowd"

1. The older generation grew up on large cars and still generally associates size with safety and old brands that are intentionally slow to change, with quality.
2. Little old ladies tend to already own a car that's been paid off for 20 years, with all of 10,000 miles on it, and don't have a lot of spare scratch for a new car for no good reason.
3. When you drive 100 miles a month, cutting cost per mile isn't as big a deal.
4. They're not uniformly frightened of technology, but they're nearly-uniformly suspicious of it's utility/necessity.
5. They do. They're called "Neighborhood Electric Vehicles" and retirement communities are lousy with them.


Wow, another well-thought-out answer. Am I on Fark?!?
 
2013-01-04 03:38:50 PM  
Yeah, you're looking at Fark's 2013 Headline of the Year already! LOL!
 
2013-01-04 03:40:17 PM  
Actually was thinking to get a Volt as wife's commuter car. Her daily commute is 20 miles round-trip and they have a charging station at her office. The lease price of $289/month seems like a pretty good deal, and the car is pretty well equipped in terms of options (though not surprising given its price). We'd use our "regular" car for road trips and family outings.

Going to test drive one tomorrow.
 
2013-01-04 03:41:15 PM  

Mikeyworld: Fo Shiz: I've got a 2012 Volt. .  If you use electricity, you pay about $1.50-2.50 a gallon equivalent gas, and if your commute is right, you really never use gas unless taking a long trip.

/But teh Obama!

Do you have the citation of these figures? And where are you. Thinkin' 'bout it, but truth is hard to root out. You a Chevy dealer?


San Diego.  Depends on how much you pay per KWh, and whether you switch to a time of day plan if you are in a high cost area like CA.  In the middle of the country it's cheap per KWh (~$.12) but in CA at top rates it's closer to $.35.  At that cost it's just about the same to buy gas, so oyu have to switch to a time of day plan and set the car to charge on off-peak.  Figure about a 90% efficiency rate for electricity from the grid to the car battery pack.  Vehicle holds about 10.6 KWh of charge depending on year (2013 is a little more).

I'm a software developer and have worked for a battery technology company developing vehicle battery packs (nothing on the market, the battery chemistry wasn't there yet).  The only negs I have are that the rear of the car gets hot because of so much glass (alleviated by a fan or tinting) and only four seats.

Also, the vehicle has a vacuum sealed tank.  It keeps track of how old the gas is and forces you to burn it every month or so.
 
2013-01-04 03:42:53 PM  

Thunderpipes: When you have billions of government money, you can produce whatever the hell you want.


Innovation (including the auto industry as one shining example) built this country, and there is no way to look back on the auto bailout and honestly come to the conclusion that it was anything other than money well spent.

You should try adjusting your views to fit the facts instead of the other way around.
 
2013-01-04 03:45:11 PM  

Fo Shiz: Mikeyworld: Fo Shiz: I've got a 2012 Volt. .  If you use electricity, you pay about $1.50-2.50 a gallon equivalent gas, and if your commute is right, you really never use gas unless taking a long trip.

/But teh Obama!

Do you have the citation of these figures? And where are you. Thinkin' 'bout it, but truth is hard to root out. You a Chevy dealer?

San Diego.  Depends on how much you pay per KWh, and whether you switch to a time of day plan if you are in a high cost area like CA.  In the middle of the country it's cheap per KWh (~$.12) but in CA at top rates it's closer to $.35.  At that cost it's just about the same to buy gas, so oyu have to switch to a time of day plan and set the car to charge on off-peak.  Figure about a 90% efficiency rate for electricity from the grid to the car battery pack.  Vehicle holds about 10.6 KWh of charge depending on year (2013 is a little more).

I'm a software developer and have worked for a battery technology company developing vehicle battery packs (nothing on the market, the battery chemistry wasn't there yet).  The only negs I have are that the rear of the car gets hot because of so much glass (alleviated by a fan or tinting) and only four seats.

Also, the vehicle has a vacuum sealed tank.  It keeps track of how old the gas is and forces you to burn it every month or so.


$0.35/KWh?! Ouch! I am at $0.10/KWh where I am at!
 
2013-01-04 03:46:05 PM  

ringersol: YodaBlues: "That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though."

Also a shame?
The visual design has no personality and the ICE can still directly drive the wheels at highway speeds. Meaning it still has a drive train and all the associated costs, complexity and bullshiat.

Kinda pisses all over the original vision.


ICE only connects to the universal gearset when running off of ICE.  ICE runs a gen which power car electrically and can in some cases link into universal gear to provide higher efficiency.  But when the pack still has charge it's 100% electric drive.
 
2013-01-04 03:46:09 PM  
Those farking fools. Ford hundreds of thousands of mustangs when it was first released in 1964.5 and the trend continued through the sixties when there were about half as many people in the country. Chevy sells 7,000 volts in 2012? Looks like they are using their inferior marketing strategy taken from the Camaro campaign and are applying it here. Just some styling and cool action commercials with an electrical theme in them would fix it all. Christ...
 
2013-01-04 03:50:22 PM  
Drove another in a long series of gas-guzzlers nearly into the ground a few years ago, then went "all-in" on a Ford Escape hybrid, with electical engineering by their Volvo division. They don't make them now, but I still get 32 mpg city with plenty of power for Interstate and mountain driving, and no service issues, at all.

/I still be rollin'

//Don't y'all be hatin'
 
2013-01-04 03:51:15 PM  
fireclown: "If you're talking about glorified golf carts, the big problem is that you can't take them out on the main roads."

No, but for the slice of the little-old-lady market that has the money/inclination to cut commute costs, a large number of them do enough of their commuting in places those golf carts *can* go, that they can produce a significant fraction of the potential cost savings of an electric car. All that with a much lower TCO and they still have their old-ass Lincoln for those trips out to see the grandkids or whatever. That doesn't cover all of them, all the time. But that and the other factors in my post combine to make the potential market for a little-old-lady-Leaf vanishingly small.

/ NEV owners also tend to *relish* the fact that they're getting around without the stress of main road traffic
// and golf carts are pretty universally hailed as 'way more fun'
 
2013-01-04 03:51:31 PM  
Volt is a very intriguing car to me. I like it on its technical merits. My current car was rated 26/32 (and usually exceeds that), but I'm still paying a bunch more on it than the Volt lease would be. It's entirely possible that I might check one out this weekend. :)
 
2013-01-04 03:53:14 PM  

BadReligion: 101 is a fine top speed for a car such as this. It is when manufacturers put speed limiters on performance cars that annoys me. My A6 has a 130MPH limiter for some reason, and even though I have never gotten it over 110, it bugs me that it is there.


It is annoying, on all vehicles in my opinion. If you feel compelled to cut the car's nuts off, just design less car.
 
2013-01-04 03:54:38 PM  
I have to commute through hellish traffic - I have to go past apple, google and facebook (TRIPLE NAMEDROP FATALITY).

But - there's carpool lane all the way! So, 3 year lease on a Leaf - $130/mo, $3K down. Return it in 3 years when the technology has improved.

No engine noise - it's *really* easy to do 85 without realizing it.
 
2013-01-04 03:54:51 PM  
I would worry about the battery life of one in a Canadian winter...
 
2013-01-04 03:56:58 PM  
Know what happens when the battery goes dead in a Volt?

/you can't unlock the doors
//how annoying
///especially if your phone is locked inside
 
2013-01-04 03:59:04 PM  

Mikeyworld: If you're a race car guy, I could see how it would be a little under-powered. 120mph is the start of interesting. But, for the average commuter, high torque with high mileage in the holy grail. How does it do in the corners? I hate FWD, though it because I never figured out how to turn the things...they just plow, no matter how you set it up. Do they have a FWD school? 4k is only "maybe", even for your grocery-getter? Would it be a good average car for $30k? 25K?


To be fair, the thing has a reasonable amount of torque. The most off-putting thing about it is the sound.

As far as handling is concerned ... Boring. Not the worst car I've ever driven, but there was nothing about it that was exciting.

For someone who doesn't care much about vehicle performance and just wants an A-to-B car, I think at $20-22k it would be reasonable. At $40k, it's insane for almost anybody. And for me, at $4k I might be persuaded to buy one for novelty's sake, but I sure as hell wouldn't drive it regularly.
 
2013-01-04 04:01:46 PM  

Ed_Severson: If you feel compelled to cut the car's nuts off, just design less car.


Those so concerned can purchase replacement nuts for their vehicle for a small charge.
 
2013-01-04 04:03:37 PM  
One of these is one of the best selling cars in America.

proving once again that American's have shiat taste in cars
 
2013-01-04 04:03:39 PM  
I'd buy one, but they cost three trillion dollars. And the battery only lasts a week so you have to spend at least a billion to replace it. Not to mention all that gas you save is just replaced by the electricity garnered from a fetus incinerator which we all know is a big polluter.

The car is kinda meh. Why do people need to tell the same lies about it over and over again? What part of your worldview does it challenge so severely that you need to attack it at every opportunity?
 
2013-01-04 04:04:41 PM  

Ed_Severson: Lexx: Tell me again how you have any business, whatsoever, doing 100MPH?

I don't live in Ontario.

Tell me again why you think it's your job to lecture me about something you don't know anything about.


Hi, Ed.

Your profile says you're from Indiana.

I'm all for staying out of the left lane for you (drive however you want and above all let faster traffic through), but 100 mph is more than 40 percent over the interstate speed limit in Indiana. I'm sure you have some kind of justification for needing to drive that fast, but try to bear in mind that most people don't share your enthusiasm for high-speed hijinks.

If you really think you need to drive over 100 mph everywhere you go, good luck with your future endeavors and/or awesome insurance premiums. I, for one, think a top speed of 101 is great for a car that doesn't need gasoline for the most common commuting usage cases.
 
2013-01-04 04:04:56 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: Popcorn Johnny: The Prius is a hipster piece of shiat.

There you have it folks. A brilliant, very well articulated argument against electric vehicles. It's truly amazing that anyone would even try to debate an argument as finely crafted as this.


I love my Prius. It stands out at the range, where all the good-buddies are driving F-150s, Hummers and Jeeps. They laugh until I tell them a) I get 50 MPG, and b)they see the Prius completely leave their Tonka trucks in the rearview mirror off the starting line (thanks Power Mode!). Yes, I've drag raced a Prius. Nothing beats electric drive for 'all torque all the time'. Do I have complaints? eh, I wish the ass was bigger so I could haul more stuff. When I pull out the arsenal to go to the range, it gets a little crowded, but overall I'm quite satisfied with it.
 
2013-01-04 04:06:11 PM  
My baby:
www.tylak.com

2011 Honda CR-Z
35mpg during regular commute.
40mpg on road trips.
Manual transmission w/electric motor assist.
 
2013-01-04 04:07:29 PM  
Smug alert.
 
2013-01-04 04:08:17 PM  

Tylak: My baby:
[www.tylak.com image 850x637]

2011 Honda CR-Z
35mpg during regular commute.
40mpg on road trips.
Manual transmission w/electric motor assist.


that... that may be my future car... I love me a stick shift. Do they make a 4dr version?
 
2013-01-04 04:12:25 PM  

SuperT: Tylak: My baby:
[www.tylak.com image 850x637]

2011 Honda CR-Z
35mpg during regular commute.
40mpg on road trips.
Manual transmission w/electric motor assist.

that... that may be my future car... I love me a stick shift. Do they make a 4dr version?


Two door only and the American version does not have a back seat.
 
2013-01-04 04:14:28 PM  

Lexx: Come on, tell me - what jurisdiction do you live in?


Sure thing, Barney Fife.

Unless it's the AUTOBAHN I have a $2 coin in my pocket that says the cops would LOVE to know you like to drive north of 100MPH.

Who doesn't?

Has it occurred to you yet that you have no idea how the 101 mph limit was verified, where it happened, or who did it? Or are you just content to ignorantly continue in your false assumption that someone you've never met is a reckless driver?

Let me spell it out for you, nimrod. I work with professional race drivers -- guys that are safer than you at twice your speed. I know how to drive a farking car. I know how to do it safely, at an appropriate speed, and I know exactly when and where to get my driving jollies, and trust me, there's no shortage of opportunities to do exactly that without driving on a public road or endangering anyone who didn't volunteer to go along for the ride.

Perhaps most importantly, I'm not answerable to you or any other panic-stricken asswipe who thinks it's his job to play traffic police, and what I do on a closed circuit is none of your goddamned business unless you're flagging the corners or driving along with me.

So, you can take your condescending lecture circuit somewhere else and go fark yourself with a rusty pitchfork. It was a comment about the car, not about my driving habits. Shut the fark up. You're out of your element here.
 
2013-01-04 04:15:07 PM  

Tylak: My baby:
[www.tylak.com image 850x637]

2011 Honda CR-Z
35mpg during regular commute.
40mpg on road trips.
Manual transmission w/electric motor assist.


I was looking at those before I bought my Prius. I had high hopes, but wasn't terribly impressed with it.
 
2013-01-04 04:16:11 PM  
Back to the topic: My retired mother traded in her Prius for the Volt and she loves the car. She was at some ridiculous number like 150/ mpg the last time I talked to her.
 
2013-01-04 04:16:40 PM  

Ed_Severson: Lexx: Come on, tell me - what jurisdiction do you live in?

Sure thing, Barney Fife.

Unless it's the AUTOBAHN I have a $2 coin in my pocket that says the cops would LOVE to know you like to drive north of 100MPH.

Who doesn't?

Has it occurred to you yet that you have no idea how the 101 mph limit was verified, where it happened, or who did it? Or are you just content to ignorantly continue in your false assumption that someone you've never met is a reckless driver?

Let me spell it out for you, nimrod. I work with professional race drivers -- guys that are safer than you at twice your speed. I know how to drive a farking car. I know how to do it safely, at an appropriate speed, and I know exactly when and where to get my driving jollies, and trust me, there's no shortage of opportunities to do exactly that without driving on a public road or endangering anyone who didn't volunteer to go along for the ride.

Perhaps most importantly, I'm not answerable to you or any other panic-stricken asswipe who thinks it's his job to play traffic police, and what I do on a closed circuit is none of your goddamned business unless you're flagging the corners or driving along with me.

So, you can take your condescending lecture circuit somewhere else and go fark yourself with a rusty pitchfork. It was a comment about the car, not about my driving habits. Shut the fark up. You're out of your element here.


why do you care that the top speed of a car designed for regular, public road use is "only" 101?
 
2013-01-04 04:16:54 PM  

mr pity: , for one, think a top speed of 101 is great for a car that doesn't need gasoline for the most common commuting usage cases.


If the GPS speed lock thing ever goes through, people are going to lose their shiat. Basically the idea is that your car will have a top speed capped around 100 mph. That way if you're on the interstate and you suddenly need to accelerate for some safety reason (truck beside you blew a tire and you want to pull the hell away from it for example) you still have some room. However otherwise you'll have a limiter on your engine, unless you arrive at a racing track who has its GPS coords on file. That point the limiter will go from whatever limit the government set to whatever limit the engineers think you can do before your engine blows the fark up.

Also it won't be something you can just "flash off". People talk about that, but they fail to grasp that auto engineers have two ways of doing something. There is the half ass way (likely because I intend to flash this feature off my personal vehicle ASAP) and then there is the "We do this right or the NHTSA rapes us" way.

/as an example, on a modern car your odometer is all electric. Try to reflash it back to 0, we did that the right way because it would destroy the resale value if people were tampering with them left and right
//low resale can force a sticker price drop since it becomes less desirable to the people who flip cars every three years
 
2013-01-04 04:17:33 PM  

Ed_Severson: You're out of your element here.


You go Walter. World of pain.
 
2013-01-04 04:18:38 PM  

mr pity: I'm all for staying out of the left lane for you (drive however you want and above all let faster traffic through), but 100 mph is more than 40 percent over the interstate speed limit in Indiana. I'm sure you have some kind of justification for needing to drive that fast, but try to bear in mind that most people don't share your enthusiasm for high-speed hijinks.

If you really think you need to drive over 100 mph everywhere you go, good luck with your future endeavors and/or awesome insurance premiums. I, for one, think a top speed of 101 is great for a car that doesn't need gasoline for the most common commuting usage cases.


Once again ... It wasn't on a public road, and at no point have I ever claimed to have driven 100 mph on a public road, much less regularly. Go lecture somebody else about vehicle safety.
 
2013-01-04 04:21:18 PM  
My baby...gets 15MPG if im lucky and WILL do 160+

/never moans about gas prices
//glad I dont live in Europe

i10.photobucket.com/">
 
2013-01-04 04:21:38 PM  

Lexx:
Ontario, Canada:
50+km/hr over (Stunt Driving/Speed Racing) = 6 points + immediate 7 day licence suspension and car impoundment + up to 2 year additional licence suspension upon conviction. Fines can range from $2,000 to $10,000.

Tell me again how you have any business, whatsoever, doing 100MPH?


The law you quote is for public roads. Doesn't apply to private roads.

Mosport, here we come....
 
2013-01-04 04:23:19 PM  

Ed_Severson: Lexx: Come on, tell me - what jurisdiction do you live in?

Sure thing, Barney Fife.

Unless it's the AUTOBAHN I have a $2 coin in my pocket that says the cops would LOVE to know you like to drive north of 100MPH.

Who doesn't?

Has it occurred to you yet that you have no idea how the 101 mph limit was verified, where it happened, or who did it? Or are you just content to ignorantly continue in your false assumption that someone you've never met is a reckless driver?

Let me spell it out for you, nimrod. I work with professional race drivers -- guys that are safer than you at twice your speed. I know how to drive a farking car. I know how to do it safely, at an appropriate speed, and I know exactly when and where to get my driving jollies, and trust me, there's no shortage of opportunities to do exactly that without driving on a public road or endangering anyone who didn't volunteer to go along for the ride.

Perhaps most importantly, I'm not answerable to you or any other panic-stricken asswipe who thinks it's his job to play traffic police, and what I do on a closed circuit is none of your goddamned business unless you're flagging the corners or driving along with me.

So, you can take your condescending lecture circuit somewhere else and go fark yourself with a rusty pitchfork. It was a comment about the car, not about my driving habits. Shut the fark up. You're out of your element here.


And to think, if only GM had had the foresight to think of the needs of people safer than I am at twice my speed, this whole little tantrum could have been avoided...
 
2013-01-04 04:23:41 PM  

SuperT: why do you care that the top speed of a car designed for regular, public road use is "only" 101?


More than anything else, it seems like a needless design consideration. If you don't want it to be able to go faster than that, just give it less power. If it's for "safety" why 101? Why not 85?
 
2013-01-04 04:26:00 PM  
GM screwed up with the marketing of a really cool vehicle type.

Instead of building the volt as a warmed over Malibu styled Chevrolet - they should have built the Cadillac Volt.

Add some leather and Caddy cues to the interior - it looks pretty cool as is:
www.autoguide.com

Add some Edgy Cadillac "art and science" styling:
1.bp.blogspot.com
OK maybe not that sleek but you get the idea.

...then advertise it as "the standard of the world". Sell it for about what it goes for now.

Nobody would complain about spending $40k on a Caddy, and the 0-60 and handling deficiencies don't apply to something that gets infinite MPG for short trips.

Instead, a boring ass beige Chebby that people buy in spite of its plebeian looks.
 
2013-01-04 04:26:17 PM  

Deucednuisance: lennavan: So we both know you're completely and fundamentally wrong.

Boy, should you have refreshed before you posted or what?

It's not like the solution to that problem hasn't posted at least three times above you, already....

But you got to lecture somebody (again) so you got that going for ya....


I know you're really mad at me and stuff. But you and I can agree in this thread. You see my post was agreeing with another post about how gas goes stale. Your post was about how the Volt engineers knew gas goes stale, completely agreeing with what I said, so they came up with a solution.

But you got to lecture me, and somebody else, so you got that going for ya....
 
2013-01-04 04:28:10 PM  

Loaf's Tray: And to think, if only GM had had the foresight to think of the needs of people safer than I am at twice my speed, this whole little tantrum could have been avoided...


Alternate course of avoidance: don't lecture people about topics you don't understand, and especially don't treat people you don't know like you have authority over them and they need to explain themselves to you.
 
2013-01-04 04:28:41 PM  

Ed_Severson: SuperT: why do you care that the top speed of a car designed for regular, public road use is "only" 101?

More than anything else, it seems like a needless design consideration. If you don't want it to be able to go faster than that, just give it less power. If it's for "safety" why 101? Why not 85?


same argument could be applied to gun ownership. 'oh you don't NEED a gun like that' they say. nobody says anything about the jackwagons out here in Vegas tooling around in their Lambos and Ferraris that easily do triple the speed limit. Nobody NEEDS to go that fast.
 
2013-01-04 04:28:54 PM  

fo_sho!: GM screwed up with the marketing of a really cool vehicle type.

Instead of building the volt as a warmed over Malibu styled Chevrolet - they should have built the Cadillac Volt.

Add some leather and Caddy cues to the interior - it looks pretty cool as is:
[www.autoguide.com image 640x427]

Add some Edgy Cadillac "art and science" styling:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]
OK maybe not that sleek but you get the idea.

...then advertise it as "the standard of the world". Sell it for about what it goes for now.

Nobody would complain about spending $40k on a Caddy, and the 0-60 and handling deficiencies don't apply to something that gets infinite MPG for short trips.

Instead, a boring ass beige Chebby that people buy in spite of its plebeian looks.


There is a Cadillac version in the works for 2014, but I agree with your point.

Link
 
2013-01-04 04:30:19 PM  

sunderland56: The law you quote is for public roads. Doesn't apply to private roads.

Mosport, here we come....


Mosport would be a fine choice.
 
2013-01-04 04:35:09 PM  

Big_Thumb: fo_sho!: GM screwed up with the marketing of a really cool vehicle type.

Instead of building the volt as a warmed over Malibu styled Chevrolet - they should have built the Cadillac Volt.

Add some leather and Caddy cues to the interior - it looks pretty cool as is:
[www.autoguide.com image 640x427]

Add some Edgy Cadillac "art and science" styling:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]
OK maybe not that sleek but you get the idea.

...then advertise it as "the standard of the world". Sell it for about what it goes for now.

Nobody would complain about spending $40k on a Caddy, and the 0-60 and handling deficiencies don't apply to something that gets infinite MPG for short trips.

Instead, a boring ass beige Chebby that people buy in spite of its plebeian looks.

There is a Cadillac version in the works for 2014, but I agree with your point.

Link


Kewl. Didn't know about that, and I hit Jalopnik from time to time and have a C & D subscription.

The problem now is the Caddy will be perceived as a souped up Chevy, whereas if they had just listened to me it would be perceived as an example of high end technology making it's way into affordable cars.
 
2013-01-04 04:40:59 PM  
Ed_Severson:
Once again ... It wasn't on a public road, and at no point have I ever claimed to have driven 100 mph on a public road, much less regularly. Go lecture somebody else about vehicle safety.

So you're arguing that an electric commuter car should be better suited for use on a race track? Do you think that's the usage case envisioned by the manufacturer?
 
2013-01-04 04:41:01 PM  

ManOfTeal: YodaBlues: The Fifth Dentist: YodaBlues: ringersol: BadReligion: "Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas."

The Volt will actually run the engine from time to time to mitigate the problems that stem from having a modern ICE sitting idle for months.

Look at that, you're right. From wiki:
"Also the engine management system monitors the time between engine running and it is programmed to prompt the driver to run past the 40-mile (64 km) before recharging in order to consume some gasoline. If the driver does not run on gasoline, the system will automatically run the maintenance mode which starts the engine to consume some of the aging fuel and circulate the fluids within the engine."

That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though.

Pretty neat until it fires itself up in your enclosed garage...yeah , no thanks

The engine only goes in maintenance mode while your driving it numbnuts.

Then it drives to Sarah Connor's house.


So it knows I'm bi-sexual. Awesome!
 
2013-01-04 04:41:11 PM  

Ed_Severson: Let me spell it out for you, nimrod. I work with professional race drivers -- guys that are safer than you at twice your speed.


THIS has nothing to do with a Volt, but wow am I impressed.
 
2013-01-04 04:48:06 PM  

mr pity: So you're arguing that an electric commuter car should be better suited for use on a race track?


Not at all. I'm simply saying the limiter is unnecessary, and in my opinion, not very logical in its implementation. Will that be an issue for 99.9% of the suckers people who buy one? Of course not. But it was an annoyance to me, so I listed it as one.
 
2013-01-04 04:51:42 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: THIS has nothing to do with a Volt, but wow am I impressed.


You shouldn't be. There are lots of people who work in motorsports. Despite the reputation, most of us can keep it in our pants when we're on the road with other people so the constant finger wagging from the Internet traffic cops who don't know anything we don't gets tiresome.
 
2013-01-04 04:54:57 PM  

Ed_Severson: mr pity: So you're arguing that an electric commuter car should be better suited for use on a race track?

Not at all. I'm simply saying the limiter is unnecessary, and in my opinion, not very logical in its implementation. Will that be an issue for 99.9% of the suckers people who buy one? Of course not. But it was an annoyance to me, so I listed it as one.


By a used one and flash the limited. Limits come OEM as part of the reason we are able to offer a warranty. In fact you are welcome to remove it from your new purchase, so long as you don't mind us voiding the warranty as part of the deal. After market tunes can remove them (Trifecta on a Camaro as an example). Just be sure to upgrade the other parts of your car needed to allow you to safely travel at that speed.

As for our refusal to sell you factory stock without a limiter, go talk to the guys who do liability. I'm sure they need a laugh for the day.

/also we limit based on the stock tire, that way we don't get sued when someone does 130 and blows out his tires that weren't intended to go past 118
 
2013-01-04 04:56:37 PM  
I looked at the Volt when the first came out, and ended up buying a Prius.
My commute is 60 miles one way (and no, I can't live closer to work because I'm not eligible to live on Base, and I don't feel like camping out with the scorpions). Even with the 30 mile electric range, I still would end up using a couple of gallons of gas every day in the Volt. The Prius on the other hand uses about 2.5 gallons per day to make the same commute. So the extra $10k price tag on the Volt wasn't worth the extra 0.5 gallons per day, so I drive a Prius.

//and I am going to drive it into the ground....
 
2013-01-04 04:58:05 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: OK, so riddle me this: why doesn't anyone market an electric-only car to the little old lady crowd? My mom recalls an old lady that drove a 1910 electric around town into the late 1960s.


You can achieve the functionality of a 1910 electric car using a golf cart. They're fairly popular in Florida amongst the Geezervolk.
 
2013-01-04 05:05:39 PM  

ha-ha-guy: By a used one and flash the limited.


No offense, but I'm not gonna buy one at all.

As for our refusal to sell you factory stock without a limiter, go talk to the guys who do liability. I'm sure they need a laugh for the day.

I understand there are liability issues, but again, why 101? If a component fails at 100 and somebody gets killed, don't think for a minute there's not an attorney out there who would sue GM for not limiting at 99.
 
2013-01-04 05:06:02 PM  

Ed_Severson: Soup4Bonnie: THIS has nothing to do with a Volt, but wow am I impressed.

You shouldn't be. There are lots of people who work in motorsports. Despite the reputation, most of us can keep it in our pants when we're on the road with other people so the constant finger wagging from the Internet traffic cops who don't know anything we don't gets tiresome.


Except you're missing the point- the Volt isn't designed for motorsports. Nobody's being an "internet traffic cop" here. You just wanted to tell everyone what a bad-ass racecar driver you are. We're all duly impressed.
 
2013-01-04 05:07:57 PM  

Ed_Severson: Soup4Bonnie: THIS has nothing to do with a Volt, but wow am I impressed.

You shouldn't be. There are lots of people who work in motorsports. Despite the reputation, most of us can keep it in our pants when we're on the road with other people so the constant finger wagging from the Internet traffic cops who don't know anything we don't gets tiresome.


Hey, I said I'd get out of your way on the interstate. I just don't grok your need for a 100mph commuter.

/Don't worry, I'm not listening to you anymore.
 
2013-01-04 05:08:51 PM  

Ed_Severson: ha-ha-guy: By a used one and flash the limited.

No offense, but I'm not gonna buy one at all.

As for our refusal to sell you factory stock without a limiter, go talk to the guys who do liability. I'm sure they need a laugh for the day.

I understand there are liability issues, but again, why 101? If a component fails at 100 and somebody gets killed, don't think for a minute there's not an attorney out there who would sue GM for not limiting at 99.


Because some drone over in legal thinks they can defend 101 in court, but not 102. The same reason a Grand Prix's GXP will show your max G forces but not do a live update, but later on the Corvette HUD would show live Gs. Some lawyer thought that live updates of Gs on the center stack was liability, but live on the HUD was fine for showing it as "safety related performance information". We just program in whatever changes legal orders.

/or in some cases if you go X mph we thing something will break and we'll have to pay money to fix it due to the warranty, but normally it is the ceiling legal set and they're a little dark box of mysteries and dumb decisions
 
2013-01-04 05:09:22 PM  

Ed_Severson: Despite the reputation, most of us can keep it in our pants when we're on the road with other people so the constant finger wagging from the Internet traffic cops who don't know anything we don't gets tiresome.


As opposed to say, an internet gear head coming into a Volt thread and smashing on the hybrid consumer model for not going over 100. Doesn't it sound silly to you when you read it that way now?
 
2013-01-04 05:10:28 PM  

ha-ha-guy: /also we limit based on the stock tire, that way we don't get sued when someone does 130 and blows out his tires that weren't intended to go past 118


Total aside here, but tire maintenance is one of those things that drives me nuts with the general public. It's the only part of your car that touches the road; it's kind of important. I hate seeing people throw on a 50-mile donut when they get a flat and then tool around on it for 6 months. That shiat should be punishable by public stoning. And driving around with flat tires or a wheel that's way out of balance ... how the hell do you not notice that?
 
2013-01-04 05:13:43 PM  

Ed_Severson: I understand there are liability issues, but again, why 101?


As for why weird numbers, legal works on: "Figure out the speed where each component has a Y% chance of failure, max speed is X% the lowest of those speeds." Bunch of different groups submit numbers for their parts and where the tests show failure, a decree from legal is given.
 
2013-01-04 05:13:50 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Know what happens when the battery goes dead in a Volt?

/you can't unlock the doors
//how annoying
///especially if your phone is locked inside


That's true of my ICE MINI as well. The car has no manual door locks.
 
2013-01-04 05:15:38 PM  

oh_please: Except you're missing the point- the Volt isn't designed for motorsports.


Never claimed it was.

Nobody's being an "internet traffic cop" here.

Except the people chiming in to lecture other people about what speeds are appropriate for a public road, as if that was a topic that needed to be discussed or anybody here wasn't already aware.

You just wanted to tell everyone what a bad-ass racecar driver you are.

Nope. Never claimed to be a driver, and I am in fact not one. I just work with them.

Anything else?
 
2013-01-04 05:20:21 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: As opposed to say, an internet gear head coming into a Volt thread and smashing on the hybrid consumer model for not going over 100. Doesn't it sound silly to you when you read it that way now?


It sounds totally ridiculous, because that's not what happened.
I didn't "smash" the Volt because it only goes 101 mph. I said that was kind of annoying. Primarily, though, it's just kind of a boring drive and way overpriced at $40k.

Does it offend your sensibilities that somebody thinks a car is boring?
 
2013-01-04 05:24:44 PM  

ha-ha-guy: /or in some cases if you go X mph we thing something will break and we'll have to pay money to fix it due to the warranty, but normally it is the ceiling legal set and they're a little dark box of mysteries and dumb decisions


I suspect that is the explanation for a great many things in life which don't make much sense. :)
 
2013-01-04 05:29:06 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Know what happens when the battery goes dead in a Volt?

/you can't unlock the doors
//how annoying
///especially if your phone is locked inside

Which

battery? There's more than one. Not that it really matters, because the Volt has a regular key lock on the Driver's door like nearly every other car on the market...
=Smidge=
 
2013-01-04 05:33:28 PM  
I actually rather like the Volt, and despite subby's insinuation, I actually see them on the road pretty regularly.
The number of Volts they sell I think has to do with the price as opposed to how good the car is. As the article said, it is selling better than the similarly-priced Corvette and nobody accuses the 'vette of being a poorly conceived idea. In fact it is one of the first and only Chevy cars for a very long time that I think is interesting, and that I might actually buy were I in the market. If they make a smaller, downscale version I think it would sell very well.
 
2013-01-04 05:36:44 PM  

Ed_Severson: Does it offend your sensibilities that somebody thinks a car is boring?


No, not at all. I just think you're a ridiculous and silly person. Have a nice day, Guy Who Thinks A Volt Should Go Faster Than 100 MPH.

Ed_Severson: I know how to drive a farking car. I know how to do it safely, at an appropriate speed, and I know exactly when and where to get my driving jollies, and trust me, there's no shortage of opportunities to do exactly that without driving on a public road or endangering anyone who didn't volunteer to go along for the ride.


Ed_Severson: Nope. Never claimed to be a driver, and I am in fact not one.

 
2013-01-04 05:37:38 PM  

Smidge204: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Know what happens when the battery goes dead in a Volt?

/you can't unlock the doors
//how annoying
///especially if your phone is locked inside

Which battery? There's more than one. Not that it really matters, because the Volt has a regular key lock on the Driver's door like nearly every other car on the market...
=Smidge=


I admit I heard the story secondhand, but apparently the blue-tooth didn't shut down and drained the battery that runs the lights, etc. The way the story was told, the guy couldn't get into the car.
Exaggeration is definite possibility

/would be kind of dismaying to press the fob button and have nothing happen, though
 
2013-01-04 05:40:03 PM  
I'd be curious to see the geographic distribution of the purchases.

Like most people (I imagine) once I've bought or driven a specific make and model of car I tend to notice them more frequently when I'm on the road. Other than the other Volts in the fleet over the summer, I can't remember having seen even one here in Indy, where the Prius is not at all uncommon.
 
2013-01-04 05:41:38 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Smidge204: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Know what happens when the battery goes dead in a Volt?

/you can't unlock the doors
//how annoying
///especially if your phone is locked inside

Which battery? There's more than one. Not that it really matters, because the Volt has a regular key lock on the Driver's door like nearly every other car on the market...
=Smidge=

I admit I heard the story secondhand, but apparently the blue-tooth didn't shut down and drained the battery that runs the lights, etc. The way the story was told, the guy couldn't get into the car.
Exaggeration is definite possibility

/would be kind of dismaying to press the fob button and have nothing happen, though


was this the same guy who locked his keys outside his car?
 
2013-01-04 05:44:57 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: No, not at all. I just think you're a ridiculous and silly person.


Congratulations to you, Lady Who Thinks Her Impressions Of Other People Matter.
 
2013-01-04 06:00:11 PM  

Ed_Severson: Nope. Never claimed to be a driver, and I am in fact not one. I just work with them.

Anything else?


How about this statement earlier in the thread?

Ed_Severson: I know how to drive a farking car. I know how to do it safely, at an appropriate speed, and I know exactly when and where to get my driving jollies, and trust me, there's no shortage of opportunities to do exactly that without driving on a public road or endangering anyone who didn't volunteer to go along for the ride.


So, you're not a driver, but you play one on TV? The only thing worse than someone bragging is when that person has to back down from it...that's just sad.
 
2013-01-04 06:05:08 PM  

Ed_Severson: Congratulations to you, Lady Who Thinks Her Impressions Of Other People Matter.


Well, thank you, Guy Who Incorrectly Assumes Gender In Other Posters.

Do you need to carry around extra luggage to hold all of that Fail or does it all fit in your pockets?
 
2013-01-04 06:12:12 PM  
Volt = Poo.
 
2013-01-04 06:16:27 PM  
I see a lot of them around town. A guy down the street just got a shiny new Tesla.
 
2013-01-04 06:17:09 PM  

oh_please: How about this statement earlier in the thread?

That's pretty self-explanatory. I know how to drive a car. I understand more about vehicle dynamics and the capabilities and limits of my car than 99% of people on the road, so I don't need a lecture on road safety.

Never once have I claimed to be a race car driver. But I do work with professional drivers, and that affords all kinds of opportunities to go to track days and goof around in a wide range of cars.

That whole argument began because when I mentioned the 101 mph limit, some moron incorrectly assumed that I had driven the car 101 mph in public and proceeded to lecture me about what was and was not an appropriate speed on the road, as if I was a child that needed a stern reminder about responsible driving and it was his rightful place to give me that reminder.

The point of my response, for those too obtuse to grasp it, was that if I feel like driving 101 mph, I don't need to do it in public. I have plenty of opportunity to do it at a race track or testing facility, and since people can and unfortunately sometimes do get killed in crashes where I work, I'm acutely aware of due and undue risk.

The only thing worse than someone bragging is when that person has to back down from it...that's just sad.

I can think of a few worse things. For example, people who assume much and know very little.

 
2013-01-04 06:17:56 PM  
Aw shiat, I hate it when that happens.
 
2013-01-04 06:19:36 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.


THIS!

/For me at least, and all the other laggards without smart phones

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-04 06:20:47 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: Well, thank you, Guy Who Incorrectly Assumes Gender In Other Posters.


My bad. It's a good thing nobody else in the thread has incorrectly assumed anything, huh?
 
2013-01-04 06:26:44 PM  
I am legitimately debating between leasing a 335i sedan and the Chevy Volt.

Obviously two entirely different classes of cars, but the fact that the Volt has my ear in my market segment is remarkable. Since I moved to place that doesn't have a track even remotely nearby, torque is more important than horsepower in order for me to get my jollies these days. Instant torque is very appealing. My big knock for the Volt is no factory HID option.. though that can, of course, be mitigated aftermarket.
 
2013-01-04 06:26:51 PM  

CthulhuCalling: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Smidge204: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Know what happens when the battery goes dead in a Volt?

/you can't unlock the doors
//how annoying
///especially if your phone is locked inside

Which battery? There's more than one. Not that it really matters, because the Volt has a regular key lock on the Driver's door like nearly every other car on the market...
=Smidge=

I admit I heard the story secondhand, but apparently the blue-tooth didn't shut down and drained the battery that runs the lights, etc. The way the story was told, the guy couldn't get into the car.
Exaggeration is definite possibility

/would be kind of dismaying to press the fob button and have nothing happen, though

was this the same guy who locked his keys outside his car?


I think this was the guy that locked himself in the car
 
2013-01-04 06:31:26 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Know what happens when the battery goes dead in a Volt?

/you can't unlock the doors
//how annoying
///especially if your phone is locked inside


The Prius has a 12V car battery that handles this. I'm sure the Volt is similar.
 
2013-01-04 06:40:29 PM  

texanjeff: Why all the volt hate?

Never understood it. Seems like the same guys who want energy independance simultaneously believe we only should use gasoline for transportation. Of course the same guys are against giving out birth control to poor people while simultaneously giving welfare to the same poor people who had babies because they couldn't afford birth control so there you go
.


I resisted the urge to "THIS" 2 other comments between my previous "THIS" statement, because generally I think it is overused...but goddammitTHISsomuch.
 
2013-01-04 06:43:21 PM  

Minarets: Or, they sold 23,461 which is slightly more than 3.


Angry Monkey: Volt = $42,000
Prius = $24,000

One of these is one of the best selling cars in America.

Chevy has been offering leases at $289/mo which is much better than buying the car outright right now.


Toyota sold 2800 Prius a day. It's the #3 best selling car IN THE WORLD.
Say goodbye to the 'volt'
 
2013-01-04 06:48:59 PM  
Ah yes, the Chevy Volt:

It costs $89,000 to make, yet sells for $38,000;

They give you $8000 in free tax money out of my pocket if you buy one;

It would take you 360,000 miles at prevailing prices to recoup your savings in fuel economy;

And I have to pay for your fathersticking car, even if I don't drive the bastard myself.

Small wonder the Red Chinese are eating our lunch in the global market.
 
2013-01-04 07:05:31 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: CthulhuCalling: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Smidge204: MaudlinMutantMollusk: Know what happens when the battery goes dead in a Volt?

/you can't unlock the doors
//how annoying
///especially if your phone is locked inside

Which battery? There's more than one. Not that it really matters, because the Volt has a regular key lock on the Driver's door like nearly every other car on the market...
=Smidge=

I admit I heard the story secondhand, but apparently the blue-tooth didn't shut down and drained the battery that runs the lights, etc. The way the story was told, the guy couldn't get into the car.
Exaggeration is definite possibility

/would be kind of dismaying to press the fob button and have nothing happen, though

was this the same guy who locked his keys outside his car?

I think this was the guy that locked himself in the car


Hey we know the same guy!
 
2013-01-04 07:10:25 PM  
Volt = 100,000$ minus the feds handing 45K of OUR money to the manufacturer as a subsidy.

Nice idea. Not feasible for most yet, but we'll get there.
 
2013-01-04 07:13:28 PM  

olddinosaur: Ah yes, the Chevy Volt:

It costs $89,000 to make, yet sells for $38,000;


I understand math and facts are difficult for some folks, but here's the latest numbers: the development cost of the Volt is roughly $1.2 billion dollars.

To date, they've sold 31,132 Volts.

1.2-billion dollars divided by 31,132 = $38,545 per car. Current selling price of a Volt? $42,000.

I'm not exactly seeing the outrage here.
 
2013-01-04 07:18:47 PM  
Ahh, sorry - the current MSRP for the lowest model is $39,145. Of course there are labor costs, and materials costs - but when it comes to purely development cost vs. sales, GM is now makes money on each one sold. It won't be long until they make true profit on the auto, especially as the R&D costs become amortized to other models.
 
2013-01-04 07:20:32 PM  

MrSteve007: olddinosaur: Ah yes, the Chevy Volt:

It costs $89,000 to make, yet sells for $38,000;

I understand math and facts are difficult for some folks, but here's the latest numbers: the development cost of the Volt is roughly $1.2 billion dollars.

To date, they've sold 31,132 Volts.

1.2-billion dollars divided by 31,132 = $38,545 per car. Current selling price of a Volt? $42,000.

I'm not exactly seeing the outrage here.


That was the development costs, add those to the materials and labor costs to make the car, not to mention advertising, and profit for the dealerships.
 
2013-01-04 07:27:42 PM  

Popcorn Johnny: The Prius is a hipster piece of shiat.


+1 Would troll again

/NOT
//(used) Car payment = amount saved on gas (on average) each month
///Essentially driving for free!!! (in comparison to the '97 CRV) biatchES

\Will laugh all the way to the bank on this one
 
2013-01-04 07:37:17 PM  

sararenne: The Prius is ugly


In my senior year of high school I had lengthy debates with my best friend (in the process of drinking lots of beer and contemplating the pros and cons of battlebot design) regarding:

Is beauty inherent or observed?

/Meh, I spent valuable hours thinking and debating the points between engineers, I'll take your comment with a grain of salt until you PROVE YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT! (sub 30 IQ, I'm not just throwing names around)
 
2013-01-04 08:57:01 PM  

YodaBlues: The Fifth Dentist: YodaBlues: ringersol: BadReligion: "Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas."

The Volt will actually run the engine from time to time to mitigate the problems that stem from having a modern ICE sitting idle for months.

Look at that, you're right. From wiki:
"Also the engine management system monitors the time between engine running and it is programmed to prompt the driver to run past the 40-mile (64 km) before recharging in order to consume some gasoline. If the driver does not run on gasoline, the system will automatically run the maintenance mode which starts the engine to consume some of the aging fuel and circulate the fluids within the engine."

That's pretty neat. Shame it's so expensive though.

Pretty neat until it fires itself up in your enclosed garage...yeah , no thanks

The engine only goes in maintenance mode while your driving it numbnuts.


I never realized how stupid 45% of the population is...

/Just think how stupid the average person is, and realize...50% of people are dumber than that!
 
2013-01-04 09:02:23 PM  

ha-ha-guy: It's not designed to be a mass market product, with a custom engine that involves some manufacturing processes we'd rather move away from. The long term plan is to learn from the Volt 1.0 and move in the direction of parts commonality with other small class platforms (Chevy Cruze) to bring the price down.

The Volt is offered with the mindset of "Some people will pay a premium for performance, some people will pay a premium for luxury, and some people will pay for this." You don't expect a 750iL to sell at the level as a Civic, same with the Volt.

/and some people actually live a life style where the car fits them perfectly
//GM engineer
/the general belief has always been "no real hope of mass market love for it until it hovers around 30k"


GM engineer huh? Let me tell you how to sell electric cars. Ready? STOP MAKING THEM LOOK LIKE ELECTRIC CARS. Make them look normal. so far, you're getting in the right direction. but we need more progress. ty. xoxox.
 
2013-01-04 09:10:55 PM  

fo_sho!: Big_Thumb: fo_sho!: GM screwed up with the marketing of a really cool vehicle type.

Instead of building the volt as a warmed over Malibu styled Chevrolet - they should have built the Cadillac Volt.

Add some leather and Caddy cues to the interior - it looks pretty cool as is:
[www.autoguide.com image 640x427]

Add some Edgy Cadillac "art and science" styling:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 400x300]
OK maybe not that sleek but you get the idea.

...then advertise it as "the standard of the world". Sell it for about what it goes for now.

Nobody would complain about spending $40k on a Caddy, and the 0-60 and handling deficiencies don't apply to something that gets infinite MPG for short trips.

Instead, a boring ass beige Chebby that people buy in spite of its plebeian looks.

There is a Cadillac version in the works for 2014, but I agree with your point.

Link

Kewl. Didn't know about that, and I hit Jalopnik from time to time and have a C & D subscription.

The problem now is the Caddy will be perceived as a souped up Chevy, whereas if they had just listened to me it would be perceived as an example of high end technology making it's way into affordable cars.


Let's just hope it's received better than the Cimmaron.....
 
2013-01-04 09:14:42 PM  

Elroydb: Each Chevy Volt comes with a $7500 tax rebate. Average income of Volt owners is $175,000. Talk about the middle class subsidizing the rich so they can feel better about themselves


Yeah, then wonder why when Boehner proposed a tax increase on people with an INCOME over 1,000,000 per YEAR he couldn't even pass it through a house controlled by his party...
 
2013-01-04 09:29:35 PM  

imgod2u: unstable mass layoff


fark EVERYONE!

/nO REALLY fark EVERYONE, I GOT MINE.


/dRUNK, LOVES America, loves his life...

///But I'll be goddamned if the whole idea of Americans doing useful work got run off the rails by Republicans who didn't want to admit that Democrats love America too.

////fark them
//fark them so much
//...
 
2013-01-04 10:02:23 PM  

BadReligion: MrSteve007: olddinosaur: Ah yes, the Chevy Volt:

It costs $89,000 to make, yet sells for $38,000;

I understand math and facts are difficult for some folks, but here's the latest numbers: the development cost of the Volt is roughly $1.2 billion dollars.

To date, they've sold 31,132 Volts.

1.2-billion dollars divided by 31,132 = $38,545 per car. Current selling price of a Volt? $42,000.

I'm not exactly seeing the outrage here.

That was the development costs, add those to the materials and labor costs to make the car, not to mention advertising, and profit for the dealerships.


Well, given that you typically depreciate development costs over a 10 year period, it's a lie to simply divide the number of Volts by the cost of development after 2-3 years of sales.
 
2013-01-04 10:21:36 PM  
Well, this thread degenerated quickly. I just think the Volt is a great concept and a pretty damn good implementation of that concept. I have my trusty Subaru Lesbian Assault Vehicle (GL10 Wagon) for our harsh winters here in Arizona.

YES, we have winters here in Arizona, especially up here at 7,000 feet. I had to pick up my nephew at a friend's house up Water Canyon Road, which is particularly treacherous and snowy. The Subaru LAV handled like a charm in 4WD. I wish I lived in an area where electric was feasible, or even public transport. It's a biatch owning a car. I'd much rather live in New York and have a Metro card.
 
2013-01-04 10:43:23 PM  

kriegfusion: GM engineer huh? Let me tell you how to sell electric cars. Ready? STOP MAKING THEM LOOK LIKE ELECTRIC CARS. Make them look normal. so far, you're getting in the right direction. but we need more progress. ty. xoxox.


So far, this has not been a winning strategy for hybrid cars. Just ask the literally dozens of fans of the Honda Civc Hybrid:

media.caranddriver.com
 
2013-01-04 10:52:11 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.


Ok, but exactly how much is it costing them in electricity to charge it?

I love arguments like this for plug-in hybrids and EVs. "Oh the savings on gas are amazing!" "Ok. But how much more are you paying per month for electricity now?"

Don't get me wrong...I own a Prius C (not a plug-in) and love it. But you can't have a reasonable discussion about saving money on gas without owning up to how much more is being spent on electricity to charge the thing.
 
2013-01-04 11:30:13 PM  
Unless they make huge improvements to the technology (note that the physics of batteries has not changed in centuries) I dont see how these can really take off. $40k is way too much for average folk to pay for a car. I commute in a 2003 corolla that the wife paid 15k for and when I replace it I plan on buying something under 10k (lightly used versa, yaris, etc). There is no way the savings in gas in the volt is going to make up for the 25-30k difference in price, not unless I were to own the car for my remaining days plus a decade or two. The $300/month lease option is no more attractive. They no doubt limit the mileage so much that you cant really use the thing. My commute is just under 100mi a day, so unless they offer 2500 miles/month under the lease its a non-starter.
 
2013-01-04 11:37:46 PM  

Ima4nic8or: Unless they make huge improvements to the technology (note that the physics of batteries has not changed in centuries) I dont see how these can really take off.


The bold part there is false, FYI.

And if I were in the market for a new vehicle, I could lease a new Volt or LEAF for effectively less than I could lease a new Prius. Price and affordability are not the same thing.
=Smidge=
 
2013-01-04 11:48:51 PM  

texanjeff: Why all the volt hate?

Never understood it. Seems like the same guys who want energy independance simultaneously believe we only should use gasoline for transportation. Of course the same guys are against giving out birth control to poor people while simultaneously giving welfare to the same poor people who had babies because they couldn't afford birth control so there you go.


Because people (read: idiots) like to make fun of companies for crap they were doing 20+ years ago. GM, Ford, and Microsoft all immediately come to mind.

"Their current stuff is really good."

"HAHAHAHA THOSE COMPANIES SUCK. I REMEMBER MY CHEVY 95 USED TO BLUE SCREEN WHEN IT WAS COLD OUT AND I WANTED TO EMAIL TO WORK!!!"

"Have you tried their latest offerings?"

"NAH, I DON'T GIVE MY MONEY TO M$HEVY AFTER WHAT HAPPENED TO ME YEARS AGO!"

"But their stuff is good..."

"SHILL! SHILL!"
GM could make a buttplug that could give you an IQ of 200, make you never have to shiat, ever, and include a supermodel wife, for free... and people would still bring up how their car didn't work well 25 years ago.
 
2013-01-05 03:32:54 AM  

Ima4nic8or: Unless they make huge improvements to the technology (note that the physics of batteries has not changed in centuries) I dont see how these can really take off. $40k is way too much for average folk to pay for a car. I commute in a 2003 corolla that the wife paid 15k for and when I replace it I plan on buying something under 10k (lightly used versa, yaris, etc). There is no way the savings in gas in the volt is going to make up for the 25-30k difference in price, not unless I were to own the car for my remaining days plus a decade or two. The $300/month lease option is no more attractive. They no doubt limit the mileage so much that you cant really use the thing. My commute is just under 100mi a day, so unless they offer 2500 miles/month under the lease its a non-starter.


In fairness, it's not really made for you. It's made for those of us with 30-40 mile commutes. We're the ones who could realistically drive it without using much gas at all.
 
2013-01-05 05:16:16 AM  

Hickory-smoked: Jayone: /Besides that,,,isn't all that plugged in energy thing coming from a coal power plant. Much less efficent than something that burns gasoline locally!

How do you figure?


In fact, burning combustible fuel at a centralized plant can be more efficient than an internal combustion engine, as it can burn the fuel at a higher temperature than it's safe to do in a car. Transmission losses eat up some of that, of course.
 
2013-01-05 06:55:09 AM  

BadReligion: ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.

Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.


Ah, but you see. The Volt is equipped with technology that knows the average age of the gas in your car and will switch over to automatically use gas if it's getting too old.

/the more you know
//owns 2 Volts
///best cars I've owned
//// pay less for these than the vehicles they replaced
// the number one car people trade in to buy a Volt? Prius.
 
2013-01-05 11:52:39 AM  

iucpa: BadReligion: ecmoRandomNumbers: Make fun all you want, but my friend Meg (Shut up, Meg!) bought one of these a few months ago and still hasn't bought gas for it. It's her daily commuter in Phoenix. Her husband is an engineer at Boeing, and these people had the foresight to start hoarding Apple stock before OSX or even i-Anything came out. I trust their judgment.

If I lived in an urban area, I would totally consider an electric vehicle. It's the future, baby. And I thank God for the brave early adopters that get these things off the ground.

Gas only stays good for about 6 months, so she should use up her tank soon or it will be filled with bad gas.

Ah, but you see. The Volt is equipped with technology that knows the average age of the gas in your car and will switch over to automatically use gas if it's getting too old.

/the more you know
//owns 2 Volts
///best cars I've owned
//// pay less for these than the vehicles they replaced
// the number one car people trade in to buy a Volt? Prius.


You are full of shiat. It knows how old the gas is... lmfao.
And why would a Prius owner trade DOWN from a 5 passenger vehicle to a 4 passenger vehicle for more money? Not to mention the Prius has more than double the cargo capacity of your measly 10cf volt.
 
2013-01-05 12:17:36 PM  
http://gas2.org/2012/09/12/former-prius-owners-turning-to-chevy-volt/

http://ask.cars.com/2011/07/will-the-volts-gasoline-stay-fresh-if-the - engine-isnt-used.html

/pwned
//double-pwned
 
2013-01-05 12:24:11 PM  
I forgot to mention that my Volt is averaging 325 MPG. Lets see a Prius do that. That's why so many Prius owners are trading in for a Volt. Not to mention a Prius is hideous looking and slow as shiat whereas my Volt turns heads and can beat most cars off the line when in sport mode.

Bottom line- each car has its own market. I love mine.
 
2013-01-05 07:35:37 PM  
so your saying 1 car actually sold. as opposed to the 3 thirds of parts, that eventually became the car they sold??
 
2013-01-05 08:54:45 PM  

Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: You are full of shiat. It knows how old the gas is... lmfao.


It knows when you last put gas in, how much you put in and how much was already in the tank at the time. Calculating the average age of the fuel in the tank is not difficult.


Four Horsemen of the Domestic Dispute: And why would a Prius owner trade DOWN from a 5 passenger vehicle to a 4 passenger vehicle for more money?


For some people, fuel economy and reducing emissions is more important that lots of cargo or lots of passengers. Most people don't find this hard to understand...
=Smidge=
 
2013-01-07 08:51:41 AM  

Ed_Severson: Loaf's Tray: And to think, if only GM had had the foresight to think of the needs of people safer than I am at twice my speed, this whole little tantrum could have been avoided...

Alternate course of avoidance: don't lecture people about topics you don't understand, and especially don't treat people you don't know like you have authority over them and they need to explain themselves to you.


Never did any of that, chief, though you sure are doing a thorough job making assumptions about everyone else's driving abilities...I guess that's the kind of keen intuition that only comes from "working with" race car drivers. I dunno if someone who thinks "track performance" has the slightest bit of relevence to this vehicle should be so quick to call people out for not understanding the topic...might as well start biatchin' about how it doesn't have the balls to tow your fifth-wheel through the Adirondacks, too.
 
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