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(ACLU)   Updated NDAA: 166 prisoners will remain at Guantanamo Bay pretty much forever   (aclu.org) divider line 347
    More: Fail, Guantanamo Bay, Guantanamo, ndaa, freedom of conscience, inauguration day, indefinite detention, signing statements, Anthony Romero  
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7848 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Jan 2013 at 3:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-04 01:04:48 PM
Fail tag completely appropriate.
 
2013-01-04 01:08:44 PM
Because the reason Obama hasn't closed Gitmo is entirely because he doesn't want to. There's no party of sickos who jerk off at the idea of indefinite detention refusing to pass defense bills unless they're allowed to keep their Persian prisoner porn. Nope, no obstructionists here.
 
2013-01-04 01:09:47 PM
So, what..year 12 of violating the Constitution?
 
2013-01-04 01:48:39 PM
I figure the only choice is they can live there or cease to exist.  The ones that are left are not going to walk away from it.
 
2013-01-04 01:51:15 PM
We can't bring many of these folks to trial. Or rather, if we do, they will walk thanks to lack of access to representation and violation of human rights. We can't send them home, where they will become martyrs to a cause. The issue is that they remain in a legal Limbo, because no one put a lot of thought into chain of custody or chain of evidence in their capture. We passed some laws to keep them there, but not enough to put them through our judicial system, and since there is no state of war, they can't even be tried by a military tribunal.

THIS was my problem from the get go. THIS. Had we made this into a law enforcement matter, we could have captured, tried, and convicted a good number of folks. There are Supermax facilities where we have terrorists locked up today, and without any contact with their peeps. They have been removed from the field, and were convicted in a real trial. Now, we have folks who are frightened by the thought of even bringing them to trial, because folks realize that these folks will walk. Free and clear if we even tried.

Folks can call it a failure all they want, but there really is no choice in this matter. We cannot release them--not with the current climate overseas. Not with several actors who will pounce upon them, not in nations that will simply release them and turn them into symbols and who will fete them as heroes for being captured. We can't try them here. Cannot. They go into a court, they will walk, and the result is even worse than simply letting them go home or releasing them to their state of origin.

Is it a travesty?  Yup. It was a travesty when they were captured without any thought to any form of chain of evidence or custody in the first place. It was a travesty when we turned their capture into a military matter, without any thought for trial or what to do afterwards. It is a problem that the previous Administration handed this one, and at this point, the GOP is making it impossible to even think about trying to fix.
 
2013-01-04 02:01:38 PM
The terrorists have won  :(
 
2013-01-04 02:17:43 PM

Saborlas: Because the reason Obama hasn't closed Gitmo is entirely because he doesn't want to. There's no party of sickos who jerk off at the idea of indefinite detention refusing to pass defense bills unless they're allowed to keep their Persian prisoner porn. Nope, no obstructionists here.


This is actually a case where most everyone comes off badly.  The GOP thinks that a key component to winning the war on terror is to lock every suspect up and then compete to see who can come up with the toughest sounding way to make them confess.  Democratic politicians are scared of being labeled appeasers or soft on terror, and the only critic of this  with any sort of a megaphone is Glenn Greenwald, who comes with his own (mostly self-induced) set of flaws that cost him credibility.
 
2013-01-04 03:20:58 PM
Same shiat different asshole. I guess Obama wasn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.
 
2013-01-04 03:20:59 PM

BSABSVR: the only critic of this with any sort of a megaphone is Glenn Greenwald, who comes with his own (mostly self-induced) set of flaws that cost him credibility


Not being an elected official is a pretty big flaw. So is not having millions of dollars.
 
2013-01-04 03:21:10 PM
Forever doesn't mean much when your lifespan is less than 100 years,
 
2013-01-04 03:21:18 PM
Lemme guess, Fark:

Bush kept Gitmo open because he's an EVIL REPUBLICAN
Obama keeps Gitmo open because those EVIL REPUBLICANS give him no choice.

Right? Right...
 
2013-01-04 03:22:30 PM
Not forever, I predict they will all be dead within 100 years .
 
2013-01-04 03:22:35 PM
i.imgur.com

U.S.A!!!! U.S.A!!!!
 U.S.A!!!!  U.S.A!!!!  U.S.A!!!!

/someone had to do it.
 
2013-01-04 03:22:47 PM

hubiestubert: We passed some laws to keep them there, but not enough to put them through our judicial system


We very well can. Many of the detainees - and others captured in the war on terror - have been tried and convicted in civilian courts.

hubiestubert: and since there is no state of war, they can't even be tried by a military tribunal.


They're only being kept there due to the 9/11 AUMF - an exercise of Congressional war powers. If the 9/11 AUMF were repealed today, every one of those people would need to be released asap.

A big problem is that we are holding them under war powers for civilian crimes - so we treat them as if they were suspected criminals, avoiding protections and rights granted to POWs - while refusing to try them because they are detainees under war powers rather than those arrested for purpose of a trial.

hubiestubert: Folks can call it a failure all they want, but there really is no choice in this matter.


Problem is, keeping them, trying them, or releasing them are all terrible decisions, practically speaking. And when they're all horrible decisions in terms of practicality, the choice is pretty clear that we must choose the option that is morally just - releasing the ones we won't/can't try.
 
2013-01-04 03:22:51 PM

Lionel Mandrake: The terrorists have won  :(


By getting labeled as terrorists and handed down a de facto life sentence in a foreign jail?

You have an odd definition of "#winning", Lionel.
 
2013-01-04 03:23:07 PM
Unless they choose to wage asymmetrical warfare. That's a (relatively) easy out.
 
2013-01-04 03:24:07 PM
Obama's just a corporate whore like 99.9% of the other politicians in Washington. How is this still surprising anyone?
 
2013-01-04 03:24:09 PM
So when you become president and have access to ALL the information, it's actually the best option... It's almost like Bush wasn't so bad after all.
 
2013-01-04 03:24:27 PM
How are those people having their rights violated? Were they uniformed combatants? US citizens?

Don't understand the liberal outrage here. And why not just close it down? Obama can do that whenever he wants to.
 
2013-01-04 03:25:03 PM
and THIS is why you dont 'capture' irregulars. Dealing with stateless nobodies in an undeclared war has always been a PITA. Thats why, historically, we just shot the arseholes...
 
2013-01-04 03:26:13 PM
I am worried about the religious prevision in this new bill. Some general forces his subordinates to take Christian Bible classes and the subordinates would comply because of the chain of command that they're under.
 
2013-01-04 03:26:17 PM
166 prisoners? Small potatoes - how many non-violent drug offenders were locked up nationwide today?
 
2013-01-04 03:26:23 PM

russsssman: It's almost like Bush wasn't so bad after all.


Let's not get carried away. Bush 43 was the worst president in my lifetime.
 
2013-01-04 03:27:42 PM

hubiestubert: We can't bring many of these folks to trial. Or rather, if we do, they will walk thanks to lack of access to representation and violation of human rights .


Or the fact that, you know, they didn't actually break any U.S. laws.
 
2013-01-04 03:28:13 PM
movie-reviews.com.au
 
2013-01-04 03:28:28 PM
Perspective #1: New boss same as old boss

Perspective #2: Let 'em go, get crucified when they kill again. Let 'em stay, get crucified for running a police state.
 
2013-01-04 03:28:40 PM

Subtle_Canary: and THIS is why you dont 'capture' irregulars. Dealing with stateless nobodies in an undeclared war has always been a PITA. Thats why, historically, we just shot the arseholes...


Shhh. You're going to troll the pseudo-legal scholars who think the Geneva Convention protects them, and that America is really the big, bad Nazi Monsters..
 
2013-01-04 03:28:53 PM
assets.nydailynews.com

Coming soon to your neighborhood!
 
2013-01-04 03:29:10 PM

Thunderpipes: How are those people having their rights violated? Were they uniformed combatants? US citizens?

Don't understand the liberal outrage here. And why not just close it down? Obama can do that whenever he wants to.


Why does it matter if they're wearing a uniform? They're P.O.W.s either way.
 
2013-01-04 03:29:49 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: russsssman: It's almost like Bush wasn't so bad after all.

Let's not get carried away. Bush 43 was the worst president in my lifetime.


Happy 12th birthday!
 
2013-01-04 03:30:22 PM

Subtle_Canary: and THIS is why you dont 'capture' irregulars. Dealing with stateless nobodies in an undeclared war has always been a PITA. Thats why, historically, we just shot the arseholes...


And the best part is the Geneva Convention allows you to do just that.  It's very explicit about soldiers being in uniform and combatants who run around with guns dressed as civilians.
 
2013-01-04 03:30:22 PM
This place should be a black mark on american history and never forgotten. It is a very shameful thing that has been done here. And Im sure the people there are no angels, they dont deserve to be treated like this. The legal limbo they have been in is horrible. They would have been better off just being executed in the field.
 
2013-01-04 03:30:25 PM
Nobel Peace Prison Prize
 
2013-01-04 03:30:56 PM

russsssman: So when you become president and have access to ALL the information, it's actually the best option... It's almost like Bush wasn't so bad after all.


The one redeeming feature of Obama's Presidency has been continuing Bush's foreign policy.
 
2013-01-04 03:31:23 PM
You could use the Chinese solution and buy a case of 9mm. Each prisoner gets one in the head and you'll even have 334 rounds left over.

/what to do with dangerous terrorists becomes easy if you don't worry about their human rights.
 
2013-01-04 03:31:32 PM

Fuggin Bizzy: russsssman: It's almost like Bush wasn't so bad after all.

Let's not get carried away. Bush 43 was the worst president in my lifetime.


History will say differently. The new Normal after Obama is done is going to be a complete disaster. We can never recover fiscally either, we are to far gone. Democrats breed like rabbits, so it will never get better. Obama will be remembered as the President who destroyed the country.
 
2013-01-04 03:31:50 PM
www.jessicaswell.com
 
2013-01-04 03:32:01 PM

Hydra: Fuggin Bizzy: russsssman: It's almost like Bush wasn't so bad after all.

Let's not get carried away. Bush 43 was the worst president in my lifetime.

Happy 12th birthday!


Hilarious.

/No, really, that was actually pretty good.
 
2013-01-04 03:32:21 PM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Why does it matter if they're wearing a uniform? They're P.O.W.s either way.


Okay. I'll bite. What nation's flag were they fighting under, in clearly identifiable uniforms and with a clear hiarchy of command responsibility for their actions?

They're not POWs, they're Franc-Tieurs. The Geneva Convention is VERY clear what they have to do to qualify as a prisoner of war, and not as a saboteur/spy. Regardless of your personal feelings of the morality of the matter, the later can be summarily executed upon discovery, and it be completely legit according to the laws and customs of warfare.
 
2013-01-04 03:32:37 PM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Thunderpipes: How are those people having their rights violated? Were they uniformed combatants? US citizens?

Don't understand the liberal outrage here. And why not just close it down? Obama can do that whenever he wants to.

Why does it matter if they're wearing a uniform? They're P.O.W.s either way.


I think he referring to Geneva Convention protections.
 
2013-01-04 03:33:48 PM

Thunderpipes: Obama will be remembered as the President who destroyed the country.


Nah, sorry. Reality has a liberal bias.

/"Romney's gonna win with, like, 340 EV. I can just feel it."
 
2013-01-04 03:34:52 PM

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Thunderpipes: How are those people having their rights violated? Were they uniformed combatants? US citizens?

Don't understand the liberal outrage here. And why not just close it down? Obama can do that whenever he wants to.

Why does it matter if they're wearing a uniform? They're P.O.W.s either way.


It matters as they apply to the Geneva Convention (which was drawn up basically for 19th century-style warfare between nation-states with uniformed armies marching in straight lines meeting in meadows 30 yards apart then kneeling and shooting each other). This was always a favorite progressive/libertarian criticism of the Bush administration - that holding them in Gitmo violated the Geneva Convention because they were POWs when, in reality, they fail to meet the requirements to be classified formally as POWs under the treaty.

/international rules of warfare need an update
 
2013-01-04 03:34:54 PM
Funny seeing die hard conservative tea-partiers agreeing with Obama. Yeah, he's a real liberal president.
 
2013-01-04 03:35:40 PM

duffblue: Same shiat different asshole. I guess Obama wasn't the greatest thing since sliced bread.


This, Bart, is a crazy person
 
2013-01-04 03:36:38 PM
I gotta do everything around this country.

Near Future Headline

Cargo plane from Gitmo crashes in Atlantic Ocean.

What was supposed to be a joyous occasion for the families of over 100 Gitmo detainees turned sour when they learned that the plane carrying the former prisoners of war crashed in the Atlantic Ocean. Only the crew survived.

"We are sadden by this event" said the President smiling because he was thinking about a recent Simpson episode where Bart and Homer accidentally exchanged bodies and no one noticed. "It is doubley sad because they didn't purchase flight insurance. Now, no one gets nuttin."

The DC-3 was considered dangerously overloaded with it's load of passengers, extra fuel and unloved Pet Rocks that had also been sent to Gitmo back in the 70's. Witnesses say the plane broke up right after the crew bailed. "Witnesses say the valiant crew jumped at the first sign of trouble" says Obama. "But witnesses can be wrong. They can also be audited by the IRS."

The President has requested a moment of silence for the victims. It will happen around 2 in the AM when everyone is pretty much asleep anyhow.

(Updated)
Witnesses claim the crew did everything they could including re-enacting the scene from Hot Shots where Charlie Sheen tries to hold the plane together with his bare hands. "They were heroes. Heroes!" claims John "Please Don't Review My Schedule CR-13" Johnson.
 
2013-01-04 03:37:00 PM
The US government didn't bring Jefferson Davis to trial because he might have won. He, though, still had some influential friends who got him released. These folks? Not so much.
 
2013-01-04 03:37:47 PM

hubiestubert: Folks can call it a failure all they want, but there really is no choice in this matter. We cannot release them--not with the current climate overseas.


Yes you can. The US can do the right thing with the Guantanamo Bay victimsterrorists, just for once, even if it means putting them on trial only to have them released, consequences be damned. There's nothing those abductees torture victims evil muslins can do as free men that is worse than the damage they're doing to the US by remaining captives of the US.

(yes, *victims.* The way the US has treated them has made victims of them. It no longer matters what they may or may not have done. The US has lost all moral claims on those people)
 
2013-01-04 03:38:33 PM
scrapetv.com

At least the members of his torture regime are afraid to leave the country.
 
2013-01-04 03:38:45 PM

Lionel Mandrake: The terrorists have won  :(


Not that I don't understand your comment but... I think they had two goals; one make 'us' pay and the other to cause 'us' to leave 'their' turf. Looks like lose all around to me. Not that I have or had any better plan that what we did.
 
2013-01-04 03:38:46 PM

Harry Freakstorm: I gotta do everything around this country.

Near Future Headline

Cargo plane from Gitmo crashes in Atlantic Ocean.

What was supposed to be a joyous occasion for the families of over 100 Gitmo detainees turned sour when they learned that the plane carrying the former prisoners of war crashed in the Atlantic Ocean. Only the crew survived.

"We are sadden by this event" said the President smiling because he was thinking about a recent Simpson episode where Bart and Homer accidentally exchanged bodies and no one noticed. "It is doubley sad because they didn't purchase flight insurance. Now, no one gets nuttin."

The DC-3 was considered dangerously overloaded with it's load of passengers, extra fuel and unloved Pet Rocks that had also been sent to Gitmo back in the 70's. Witnesses say the plane broke up right after the crew bailed. "Witnesses say the valiant crew jumped at the first sign of trouble" says Obama. "But witnesses can be wrong. They can also be audited by the IRS."

The President has requested a moment of silence for the victims. It will happen around 2 in the AM when everyone is pretty much asleep anyhow.

(Updated)
Witnesses claim the crew did everything they could including re-enacting the scene from Hot Shots where Charlie Sheen tries to hold the plane together with his bare hands. "They were heroes. Heroes!" claims John "Please Don't Review My Schedule CR-13" Johnson.


WOW you're like a regular Miss Farking CLEO or sumpin.
 
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