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(Dispatches from the Culture Wars)   This chart should be featured in every budget story discussion: U.S. spends 50% more on its military than the top-10 next highest spenders combined. And only two of those ten are not allies and one of the two left loans us the money to spend   (freethoughtblogs.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, U.S.  
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3350 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Jan 2013 at 10:57 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-04 08:51:22 AM  
Yeah, but look at all those jobs the government creates, subby.
 
2013-01-04 08:52:09 AM  
Oh come on.  You know you love it that America's military has almost satirical levels of equipment and resources.
 
2013-01-04 08:56:12 AM  
Really? You're going with the China bullshiat again?
 
2013-01-04 09:23:20 AM  
i47.tinypic.com

Added something for scale.
 
2013-01-04 09:32:43 AM  
Anyone got an infographic handy that shows how the U.S. defense budget's allocated? Weapons systems procurement,. troop payroll, management and administration, operational/food/fuel costs, outsourcing?
 
2013-01-04 09:42:03 AM  
Unless the chart has a morbidly obese dog, I'm not interested.
 
2013-01-04 09:49:19 AM  
I was discussing this with my teabagger father, who pointed out that well, "it's kept us safe!" I tried to explain what a necessary/sufficient fallacy is, but he wasn't interested.
 
2013-01-04 09:55:10 AM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Unless the chart has a morbidly obese dog, I'm not interested.


i.imgur.com i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-04 09:55:45 AM  
The dog so nice I posted it twice
 
2013-01-04 09:57:12 AM  

phaseolus: Anyone got an infographic handy that shows how the U.S. defense budget's allocated? Weapons systems procurement,. troop payroll, management and administration, operational/food/fuel costs, outsourcing?


Sorry, not in handy picture form:
Operations and maintenance$283.3 billion+4.2%Military Personnel$154.2 billion+5.0%Procurement$140.1 billion−1.8%Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation$79.1 billion+1.3%Military Construction$23.9 billion+19.0%Family Housing$3.1 billion−20.2%Total Spending683.7 billion+3.0%
Entity2010 Budget request
Percentage of TotalNotes$244.9 billion31.8%In FY2011 $17,175,805,014.00 dollars was paid to retired Soldiers and Survivors, which is about 6.9% of the total Army Budget$149.9 billion23.4%excluding Marine Corps$29.0 billion4%Total Budget taken allotted from Department of Navy$170.6 billion22%Defense Intelligence$80.1 billion3.3%Because of classified nature, budget is an estimate and may  not be the actual figureDefense Wide Joint Activities$118.7 billion15.5%
Programs spending more than $1.5 billionThe Department of Defense's FY 2011 $137.5 billion procurement and $77.2 billion RDT&E budget requests included several programs with more than $1.5 billion.

Program2011 Budget requestChange, 2010 to 2011$11.4 billion+2.1%Ballistic Missile Defense ($9.9 billion+7.3%$5.4 billion+28.0%$3.2 billion+21.8%$3.0 billion+19.6%$2.9 billion−1.6%$2.8 billion−6.5%$2.7 billion+95.8%$2.0 billion+17.4%$1.9 billion+57.8%$1.8 billion+12.5%$1.7 billion−6.0%$1.6 billion−7.0%$1.5 billion+6.7%$1.5 billion+54.4%(Thanks  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#By_ t itle )
 
2013-01-04 09:57:57 AM  

KyngNothing: phaseolus: Anyone got an infographic handy that shows how the U.S. defense budget's allocated? Weapons systems procurement,. troop payroll, management and administration, operational/food/fuel costs, outsourcing?

Sorry, not in handy picture form:
Operations and maintenance$283.3 billion+4.2%Military Personnel$154.2 billion+5.0%Procurement$140.1 billion−1.8%Research, Development, Testing & Evaluation$79.1 billion+1.3%Military Construction$23.9 billion+19.0%Family Housing$3.1 billion−20.2%Total Spending683.7 billion+3.0%
Entity2010 Budget requestPercentage of TotalNotes$244.9 billion31.8%In FY2011 $17,175,805,014.00 dollars was paid to retired Soldiers and Survivors, which is about 6.9% of the total Army Budget$149.9 billion23.4%excluding Marine Corps$29.0 billion4%Total Budget taken allotted from Department of Navy$170.6 billion22%Defense Intelligence$80.1 billion3.3%Because of classified nature, budget is an estimate and may  not be the actual figureDefense Wide Joint Activities$118.7 billion15.5%
Programs spending more than $1.5 billionThe Department of Defense's FY 2011 $137.5 billion procurement and $77.2 billion RDT&E budget requests included several programs with more than $1.5 billion.

Program2011 Budget requestChange, 2010 to 2011$11.4 billion+2.1%Ballistic Missile Defense ($9.9 billion+7.3%$5.4 billion+28.0%$3.2 billion+21.8%$3.0 billion+19.6%$2.9 billion−1.6%$2.8 billion−6.5%$2.7 billion+95.8%$2.0 billion+17.4%$1.9 billion+57.8%$1.8 billion+12.5%$1.7 billion−6.0%$1.6 billion−7.0%$1.5 billion+6.7%$1.5 billion+54.4%(Thanks  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#By_ t itle )


Oh hell, just go to the link... this new comment format is killing me today...
 
2013-01-04 10:00:25 AM  
Using raw dollar amounts intentionally distorts how much we spend in relation to other countries.  Should we be like China then and pay our troops slave wages and provide them no body armor or logistics support?

U.S. military spending as a percentage of GDP is 4.7%.  That's still fairly high but not out of the normal range for other countries.  And a huge chunk of that is pay and benefits for the members of the military.
 
2013-01-04 10:06:51 AM  

kxs401: I was discussing this with my teabagger father, who pointed out that well, "it's kept us safe!" I tried to explain what a necessary/sufficient fallacy is, but he wasn't interested.


did you at least try to sell him a tiger repelling rock?
 
2013-01-04 10:15:37 AM  

SilentStrider: kxs401: I was discussing this with my teabagger father, who pointed out that well, "it's kept us safe!" I tried to explain what a necessary/sufficient fallacy is, but he wasn't interested.

did you at least try to sell him a tiger repelling rock?


Lisa, I'd like to buy your rock!
 
2013-01-04 10:17:13 AM  
Eisenhower (ya know, the guy behind Operation Overlord) would weep for today's Republican party.
 
2013-01-04 10:33:47 AM  
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
 
2013-01-04 10:35:57 AM  

Thoguh: Using raw dollar amounts intentionally distorts how much we spend in relation to other countries.  Should we be like China then and pay our troops slave wages and provide them no body armor or logistics support?

U.S. military spending as a percentage of GDP is 4.7%.  That's still fairly high but not out of the normal range for other countries.  And a huge chunk of that is pay and benefits for the members of the military.


We're talking apples and hugely over-budget, totally unneeded oranges here. The kind of fat-cat fueled BS that gives us thinking like "Governor Mitt Romney: ...our Navy is smaller now than any time since 1917 " is the problem.
 
2013-01-04 10:42:33 AM  
So for that much money we can pretty much do whatever we want, right?
 
2013-01-04 10:44:46 AM  

vernonFL: [encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 191x264]


i48.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-04 10:48:39 AM  

KyngNothing: Oh hell, just go to the link... this new comment format is killing me today...



Ah, of course. Thanks, Google was failing me here at work thanks to website filtering.

And when I remember -- which isn't often -- I wind up selecting "Use HTML Buttons" because a.) I know how it works and b.) some things aren't possible the new way, e.g. text in hyperlinks. The new way's kinda nice when hotlinking images, though.
 
2013-01-04 11:02:30 AM  
Well, things in China are a lot cheaper, so you have to convert it to equivalent units. American job-stealing inefficient unions, ya know.

If we just outsourced to China our building of aircraft carriers and next-generation fighter aircraft and all of our national security apparatus like secure communications and so on, I'm sure we could get a nice 10-15% discount. Let's do this!
 
2013-01-04 11:02:43 AM  
I didn't realize that Saudi Arabia spent so much on its military.
 
2013-01-04 11:02:44 AM  
U.S. spends 50% more on its military than the top-10 next highest spenders combined.

Now that this has been pointed out I am confident the budget cutters in the GOP will get right on it.
 
2013-01-04 11:03:02 AM  

MrBallou: vernonFL: [encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 191x264]

[i48.tinypic.com image 464x511]


That is a sublime piece of beauty.
 
2013-01-04 11:03:24 AM  
If this is news to you, well.... I just don't know what to say to you.

I blame Reagan
 
2013-01-04 11:05:54 AM  

Nofun: Eisenhower (ya know, the guy behind Operation Overlord)


And Operation Ajax. Thanks, Ike.
 
2013-01-04 11:07:43 AM  

phaseolus: Anyone got an infographic handy that shows how the U.S. defense budget's allocated? Weapons systems procurement,. troop payroll, management and administration, operational/food/fuel costs, outsourcing?


You forgot pensions.
 
2013-01-04 11:07:59 AM  

MrBallou: vernonFL: [encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 191x264]

[i48.tinypic.com image 464x511]


/Sees what you did there.
 
2013-01-04 11:08:50 AM  

MrBallou: vernonFL: [encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com image 191x264]

[i48.tinypic.com image 464x511]


i love that the data even looks like a d
 
2013-01-04 11:09:03 AM  
And a huge chunk of that is pay and benefits for the members of the military.

Real patriots refuse to accept a government welfare check in return for their patriotism. They stand up and do the job because they believe in it. Not just for a government handout check.
 
2013-01-04 11:09:22 AM  
Dammit. Pretend I remembered to incude a picture of Dick "Shot a guy in the face*" Cheney

*NTTAWWT
 
2013-01-04 11:09:37 AM  

Thoguh: Using raw dollar amounts intentionally distorts how much we spend in relation to other countries.  Should we be like China then and pay our troops slave wages and provide them no body armor or logistics support?

U.S. military spending as a percentage of GDP is 4.7%.  That's still fairly high but not out of the normal range for other countries.  And a huge chunk of that is pay and benefits for the members of the military.


We should switch to drones and get rid of all the cannon fodder.
 
2013-01-04 11:10:11 AM  
Global empires aren't cheap.
 
2013-01-04 11:10:25 AM  
Look if we get into a serious war (as opposed to biatch slapping the Iraqi land forces around for a few weeks type of war) it involves China. We're not landing troops in China, the Shanghai metro region alone has 20 million people. During WWII we felt that Japan had unpleasant population densities and an invasion of the Home Islands would lead to massive KIAs. China is like that, but worse.

If we get into a war with them, we win it by bombing the ever loving fark out of their entire industrial base. Occupation is not on the table. Yet we're still doing dumb shiat like buying more Abrams tanks (that the Army doesn't even want). The Army pulls down ~30% of the budget which is a plurality for any service (even Navy and USMC combined is only about 28%).

The logical thing seems to suggest the Army getting hit the hatchet. We don't need that many ground troops (especially with Iraq and Afghanistan drawing down). We don't need armored corps to handle the Soviets at the Fulda gap. What we do need is missile defense, air superiority, and space supremacy. Hit the Air and also trim the USAF's manned fighter program a bit while we're at it. The Navy can be hit on things like the LCS program and we can likely rethink the long term future of carriers (if 100 million worth of drones can swarm and kill a 5 billion dollar carrier, it sucks).

As it stands we're kind of in spot of figuring out what technologies we still need and we don't. Drones for example are likely replacing manned fighters at some point, but we're not there yet. That said, how many F-35s do we really need?

/as in the F-15, F-14, F-16, and F/A-18 were all awesome planes, but of all those we built, how many just dorked around flying training missions versus saw combat in the Middle East
 
2013-01-04 11:10:45 AM  
www.globalsecurity.org
 
2013-01-04 11:11:18 AM  
The last time this nation was attacked was in 1941):

i guess radical islam doesn't count...
 
2013-01-04 11:11:29 AM  

sunlion: And a huge chunk of that is pay and benefits for the members of the military.

Real patriots refuse to accept a government welfare check in return for their patriotism. They stand up and do the job because they believe in it. Not just for a government handout check.


Well, I'm sure a lot of the non-personel budget items in that chart on wiki do go to personel expenses but the line item explicitly devoted to personel only accounts for about 22% of the Pentagon's budget.
 
2013-01-04 11:12:08 AM  
We should obviously shuffle some of the defense money to arming ALL teachers. -Frank N Stein
 
2013-01-04 11:12:09 AM  

Thoguh: Using raw dollar amounts intentionally distorts how much we spend in relation to other countries.

..
U.S. military spending as a percentage of GDP is 4.7%.  That's still fairly high but not out of the normal range for other countries.

While I don't dispute that raw dollars is distorting, % GDP is the method of evaluating defense spending that attaches the smallest numbers possible to the issue. You have to see that as distorting as well - the US 'only' spends about 2% more than it's allies, etc. Meanwhile that added 2% would fund the annual defense budgets of essentially all of those allies.

Same list as TFA, by that metric:

1. Saudi Arabia - 8.7
2. United States - 4.7
3. Russia - 3.9
4. United Kingdom - 2.6
5. India - 2.5
6. France - 2.3
7. China - 2.0
8. Brazil - 1.5
9. Germany - 1.3
10. Japan - 1.0

On a somewhat related tangent, the list of countries in the world that spend more than 4% GDP on defense is interesting: Eritrea, Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE, Israel, Chad, Jordan, Iraq, Georgia, United States, Kuwait, Angola, Armenia, Lebanon, Syria.
 
2013-01-04 11:13:52 AM  

Thoguh: U.S. military spending as a percentage of GDP is 4.7%. That's still fairly high but not out of the normal range for other countries. And a huge chunk of that is pay and benefits for the members of the military.


military spending is not a per capita expense or a per GDP expense so why would you index it to that?

if the population of the US doubled overnight and GDP tripled, it would still cost exactly the same to bomb the fark out of brown people in deserts as it does now.


per capita or %GDP is useful in comparing expenses that are incurred serving the population because that is comparing efficiency.

examples being education or healthcare.

military expenses are either straight dollars
or one could create a more complicated measurement of land area land border sea border trade route length
 
2013-01-04 11:14:50 AM  
This headline reads like a Pinterest tag.
 
2013-01-04 11:15:19 AM  

jigger: Nofun: Eisenhower (ya know, the guy behind Operation Overlord)

And Operation Ajax. Thanks, Ike.


Yeah, that was a total bust. Not only did Ajax fail to catch Gordon, he was able to commandeer it and impale Ming. Never should have been dispatched, Flash would have had to convince the Hawkmen to attack the palace with its shields up. Bad call, Jeeves, bad call.
 
2013-01-04 11:15:26 AM  

Stone Meadow: U.S. spends 50% more on its military than the top-10 next highest spenders combined.

Now that this has been pointed out I am confident the budget cutters in the GOP will get right on it.


Cutting the military won't balance the budget so it shouldn't even be considered. Funding for NPR on the other hand...
 
2013-01-04 11:16:32 AM  

djkutch: Yeah, but look at all those jobs the government creates, subby.


Is it not better to create government jobs that assist our own citizens than to create ones that kill other countries citizens? Imagine if just a small portion of the R&D used by the military went into energy, medical, engineering R&D.
 
2013-01-04 11:16:55 AM  
After the second jet hit the WTC, it took an hour and thirty eight minutes to put the first F16 into the air.
 
2013-01-04 11:17:19 AM  

Blaxabbath: This headline reads like a Pinterest tag.


You realize you just admitted that you've visited Pinterest before.
 
2013-01-04 11:17:40 AM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: [www.globalsecurity.org image 850x1076]


i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-04 11:18:00 AM  

Thoguh: Using raw dollar amounts intentionally distorts how much we spend in relation to other countries.  Should we be like China then and pay our troops slave wages and provide them no body armor or logistics support?

U.S. military spending as a percentage of GDP is 4.7%.  That's still fairly high but not out of the normal range for other countries.  And a huge chunk of that is pay and benefits for the members of the military.


it is out of range for normal countries. in % of GDP its 10th overall, more than double the global average of 2.2%.

Link

any cut to defense spending would have to be gradual to avoid an economic shock. $20-25 billion a year spread over 10 years could do the trick.
 
2013-01-04 11:18:08 AM  

Stone Meadow: U.S. spends 50% more on its military than the top-10 next highest spenders combined.

Now that this has been pointed out I am confident the budget cutters in the GOP will get right on it.


The GOP members will probably look at that chart, then look down at their very small penis and scream for increased military spending.
 
2013-01-04 11:19:46 AM  

pete1729: After the second jet hit the WTC, it took an hour and thirty eight minutes to put the first F16 into the air.


Yes, but when the first shots of the October Revolution rang out the Russians took almost 30 years to get a jet in the sky.
 
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