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(Digital Spy)   Proving they hate their customers, Sony is working on technology that would make it impossible to play used or borrowed games on the PS4   (digitalspy.com) divider line 182
    More: Fail, Sony, ps3 games, debris disk  
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3056 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Jan 2013 at 8:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-04 08:29:15 AM
Old news?

We saw this in the summer.  Both Sony and Microsoft are looking to do this with their next gen consoles.  I DNRTA completely, but I know with the Xbox, their goal is to have you buy the game every time it is put in to a new console.  If you buy a used version, it will lock content, and you will have to DLC the rest of the game, which will cost about the same as a new copy.

They really won't do it...they will turn away a lot of people.  I think both companies let the news leak out to test the waters, and it's mighty frigid.
 
2013-01-04 08:47:11 AM
Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!
 
2013-01-04 08:52:28 AM
Never trust anything to anyone who works in that industry.
 
2013-01-04 08:53:12 AM
Yeah thanks Sony, but I think I'll stick with downloading $10 indie games off Steam if its all the same.
 
2013-01-04 08:55:20 AM
Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,
 
2013-01-04 08:57:00 AM

Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,


The used car market doesn't rip off the car manufacturers so why is this true for video games?
 
2013-01-04 08:58:33 AM

Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,


Yeah, about that:

Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!


I have two 360s in my house, and I already own two of every MP game I play, now I'd also need to buy two of every single player? Suddenly the Steam console doesn't sound half as bad.
 
2013-01-04 08:59:00 AM
Does anyone remember that prior to their releasing Blu-ray, Sony had this idea about making those blu-ray disks playable on only one machine? Once they played for the first time in a particular machine, they could only be played in that particular machine. That way you couldn't sell them as used, nor lend them out, nor even play them on another Blu-ray player in your home. They later dropped that idea but the mentality is still there. And lets not forget some years earlier when they had extra software on their music CD's that when played on a PC, would install software without the users knowledge that ended up affecting that PC's security. Sony has a history of trying to screw their customers under the guise of fighting piracy.
 
2013-01-04 08:59:17 AM
You'd think for companies that deal with software, they'd understand that no data protection scheme can be perfect and distributable at the same time.
 
2013-01-04 09:02:20 AM
Glad I'm too old to spend time playing games. I wish I could. My cousin's kid loaned me Borderlands about 3 months ago and I've logged about 15 minutes.

Sony pisses me off. I think I need to be logged into the PSN in order to watch Amazon instant videos? Are they that interested in what I watch? F em.
 
2013-01-04 09:02:22 AM

Egoy3k: Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,

The used car market doesn't rip off the car manufacturers so why is this true for video games?


Yeah, I never heard music or movie people biatching about this (unless I wasn't listening close enough). How is the video game market different from any other market where you can resell something?
 
2013-01-04 09:04:17 AM
cache.kotaku.com

Be the industry leader on this one, Sony. Guarantee that places like Gamestop and Best Buy won't carry the PS4 and that consumers hate you even more than they already do. That'll surely recover from the PS3 fiasco and retake the lead in the console wars.
 
2013-01-04 09:07:16 AM
Extremely shiatty if not understandable decision. I think it will cause too much bad blood with their users for them to go through with it.

They can just let the developers take the heat when they start releasing pared down titles with everything good trapped in DLC packages.

Or my nightmare scenario, where everything turns in to a Maple Story-esque scheme of endless micro transactions.
 
2013-01-04 09:08:10 AM
Funny... there will be a hack that breaks the scheme approximately 15 minutes after it's introduced to the public. They never learn.

Stuff like this makes me glad I'm a customer of Steam.
 
2013-01-04 09:08:53 AM
The next consoles are still going to require discs??

How quaint.
 
2013-01-04 09:09:39 AM

Latinwolf: Does anyone remember that prior to their releasing Blu-ray, Sony had this idea about making those blu-ray disks playable on only one machine? Once they played for the first time in a particular machine, they could only be played in that particular machine. That way you couldn't sell them as used, nor lend them out, nor even play them on another Blu-ray player in your home. They later dropped that idea but the mentality is still there. And lets not forget some years earlier when they had extra software on their music CD's that when played on a PC, would install software without the users knowledge that ended up affecting that PC's security. Sony has a history of trying to screw their customers under the guise of fighting piracy.


Was is Sony that tried to sue that blogger for telling everyone to just turn off autoplay?
 
2013-01-04 09:11:00 AM

the opposite of charity is justice: That'll surely recover from the PS3 fiasco and retake the lead in the console wars.


i220.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-04 09:13:24 AM
I used to buy about one new game a month back in day, starting in the early 90's. Around 2000 that number started dropping. Now I either buy used (about 6-12 months after it comes out) and maybe 1 new game a year. It might be that I have changed somewhat, but it just seems like such a hassle anymore, and I grew up with making boot disks, CONFIG.SYS and HIMEM.

/has a library of at least 200 games over about 5 different systems, most of them are PC.
//"collector"
 
2013-01-04 09:15:58 AM
And there's technology that allows me to ignore the ps4. It's called only buy products without bullshiat drm involved
 
2013-01-04 09:16:32 AM

HotWingConspiracy: They can just let the developers take the heat when they start releasing pared down titles with everything good trapped in DLC packages.


except they'll still charge $60-80 for that piece of garbage
 
2013-01-04 09:16:45 AM
a used 2008 toyota tacoma doesn't have the same quality and longevity as a new 2013 toyota tacoma and that is why it is cheaper. i'm waiting for the day a car always works and never wears out unless it gets a scratch in the paint and then will never work again.
that disc either works or it doesn't.
if a disc aged like a car or like how just about anything else it would be a better comparison. maybe they should start doing the limited plays system again. didn't best buy have a movie player years ago that let you play a disc a few times? it bombed.
 
2013-01-04 09:18:12 AM

Burr: I used to buy about one new game a month back in day, starting in the early 90's. Around 2000 that number started dropping. Now I either buy used (about 6-12 months after it comes out) and maybe 1 new game a year. It might be that I have changed somewhat, but it just seems like such a hassle anymore, and I grew up with making boot disks, CONFIG.SYS and HIMEM.

/has a library of at least 200 games over about 5 different systems, most of them are PC.
//"collector"


You know Nintendo won't go this route, and I think Microsoft was just throwing it out there to see if would stick.  But, with that said, if both companies DID do this, you can look at PC gaming to take a huge jump again, especially if people start throwing emulators out there that can crack these discs.

And discs?  Really?  Do flash drives have a lower life expectancy vs discs still?
 
2013-01-04 09:20:32 AM
This seems fairly straight forward, you are not buying a game you are purchasing a license to use the game on one specific device. It is equally straight forward that a license is worth much less to the customer base so should be priced at about 20% to 25% the cost of buying a copy of the game.
 
2013-01-04 09:21:37 AM
Yeah, i'd pass on the console if it tried this. While I don't buy many used games during a console gen, I buy a ton after the gen, to catch up on out of print titles I missed. I'm still buying ps1 and ps2 era games, nearly doubling my collection of both in the last few years.

Honestly though, we saw the same rumor during the ps3 pre-launch, and earlier during the first ps4 rumors. I seriously hope sony's japanese execs are not dumb enough to force this on the console. Do it, and quite a few people woud ignore the console and just buy an Xbox or wii ?U instead.
 
2013-01-04 09:25:35 AM
this will be a vast improvement over the ps3 which simply did not have games
 
2013-01-04 09:26:10 AM

Antimatter: I'm still buying ps1 and ps2 era games, nearly doubling my collection of both in the last few years.


Hell, since it takes an average of about a week of soild gaming to finish a major title anymore, I don't think I will ever run out of games to play, especially with GoG and Steam around.
 
2013-01-04 09:29:36 AM

FinFangFark: Burr: I used to buy about one new game a month back in day, starting in the early 90's. Around 2000 that number started dropping. Now I either buy used (about 6-12 months after it comes out) and maybe 1 new game a year. It might be that I have changed somewhat, but it just seems like such a hassle anymore, and I grew up with making boot disks, CONFIG.SYS and HIMEM.

/has a library of at least 200 games over about 5 different systems, most of them are PC.
//"collector"

You know Nintendo won't go this route, and I think Microsoft was just throwing it out there to see if would stick.  But, with that said, if both companies DID do this, you can look at PC gaming to take a huge jump again, especially if people start throwing emulators out there that can crack these discs.

And discs?  Really?  Do flash drives have a lower life expectancy vs discs still?


technabob.com
That's how we did it back in the day... also a lot harder to copy.

/everything old is new again
 
2013-01-04 09:30:07 AM

sprawl15: this will be a vast improvement over the ps3 which simply did not have games


Cheron: This seems fairly straight forward, you are not buying a game you are purchasing a license to use the game on one specific device. It is equally straight forward that a license is worth much less to the customer base so should be priced at about 20% to 25% the cost of buying a copy of the game.


What logic are you using for that one? Most licensed PC software, for example is just as expensive if not more so then any console game.

You are still buying a copy of the game, like any other game, it just can't be resold. you know, like the vast majority of PC games released in the last decade or more.
 
2013-01-04 09:30:31 AM

sprawl15: this will be a vast improvement over the ps3 which simply did not have games


wat?

God of War
Uncharted series
Resistance series
Mass Effect series
Skyrim
Gran Turismo 5

/not sure if trolling or serious
 
2013-01-04 09:32:19 AM

Cheron: This seems fairly straight forward, you are not buying a game you are purchasing a license to use the game on one specific device. It is equally straight forward that a license is worth much less to the customer base so should be priced at about 20% to 25% the cost of buying a copy of the game.


You're precious... really.
 
2013-01-04 09:32:21 AM

HindiDiscoMonster: FinFangFark: Burr: I used to buy about one new game a month back in day, starting in the early 90's. Around 2000 that number started dropping. Now I either buy used (about 6-12 months after it comes out) and maybe 1 new game a year. It might be that I have changed somewhat, but it just seems like such a hassle anymore, and I grew up with making boot disks, CONFIG.SYS and HIMEM.

/has a library of at least 200 games over about 5 different systems, most of them are PC.
//"collector"

You know Nintendo won't go this route, and I think Microsoft was just throwing it out there to see if would stick.  But, with that said, if both companies DID do this, you can look at PC gaming to take a huge jump again, especially if people start throwing emulators out there that can crack these discs.

And discs?  Really?  Do flash drives have a lower life expectancy vs discs still?

[technabob.com image 520x485]
That's how we did it back in the day... also a lot harder to copy.

/everything old is new again


Carts were not flash based, they were roms. They were also very expensive to produce.

I think what keeps the main consoles from adopting flash is well, stuff like blu-ray is dirt cheap per disc, compared to the size you get. Probably pennies per stamped disc these days.
 
2013-01-04 09:35:29 AM
That's too bad, I'll miss the God of War games.

I ditched the XBOX when they wanted to make me buy their new console to find out what happened to Master Chief after the shiatty non-ending of Halo 2. I can ditch Sony, too.

As has been said in this thread multiple times, Steam for the win.
 
2013-01-04 09:37:47 AM

Starhawk: I ditched the XBOX when they wanted to make me buy their new console to find out what happened to Master Chief after the shiatty non-ending of Halo 2. I can ditch Sony, too.


Of all the reason to ditch the xbox this has got to be the dumbest.
 
2013-01-04 09:39:24 AM

Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!


The only way to avoid that is if they do what Blizzard has been doing, which is having the games tied to your account. Once the game is tied to your account it doesn't matter what disc I use or if I download the game straight from them, but then you would have to be always online and that is another bag of problems that get consumers irate.
 
2013-01-04 09:39:26 AM

FinFangFark: If you buy a used version, it will lock content, and you will have to DLC the rest of the game, which will cost about the same as a new copy.


I feel like GameStop would file a creative lawsuit to stop this since it will destroy the most profitable part of their business model.
 
2013-01-04 09:42:31 AM

tricycleracer: FinFangFark: If you buy a used version, it will lock content, and you will have to DLC the rest of the game, which will cost about the same as a new copy.

I feel like GameStop would file a creative lawsuit to stop this since it will destroy the most profitable part of their business model.


Based on what? Pc games have done similar for years. The console publishers aren't bound by any agreement to let you resell their games no more then PC publishers are.
 
2013-01-04 09:44:07 AM

tricycleracer: FinFangFark: If you buy a used version, it will lock content, and you will have to DLC the rest of the game, which will cost about the same as a new copy.

I feel like GameStop would file a creative lawsuit to stop this since it will destroy the most profitable part of their business model.


Don't forget Gamefly...their revenue is solely generated from mailing off used games.
 
2013-01-04 09:44:11 AM

Burr: Antimatter: I'm still buying ps1 and ps2 era games, nearly doubling my collection of both in the last few years.

Hell, since it takes an average of about a week of soild gaming to finish a major title anymore, I don't think I will ever run out of games to play, especially with GoG and Steam around.


I could stop buying games today and it would probably a good year and a half till my backlog was cleared. Between steam games, unfinished console/PC games, and a ton of older games, i've no shortage of stuff to play.

Its one reason i'm basically ignore steam sales now, i've no time to play what I have, let alone all the new stuff.
 
2013-01-04 09:46:44 AM
I think a better strategy is to pair DLC/in game items/bonuses with new copies of the game, and once you redeem the code and link it to your account its done.

That would tempt some people to pay $50 for the new version which comes with horse armor DLC or whatever, rather than paying shiatty gamestop $35 for a used copy.
 
2013-01-04 09:46:57 AM

Egoy3k: Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,

The used car market doesn't rip off the car manufacturers so why is this true for video games?


The used book market doesn't rip off publishers so why is this true for video games?
 
2013-01-04 09:47:04 AM
PS3 already has something like this for a bunch of games. If you buy the used version part of the game is locked out. For Arkham City the Catwoman part was unavailable if you got the game used unless you bought the DLC. For Assassins Creed 3 the multi-player was locked out on a used game, same with MLB13. This is not going to be different just comprehensive .
 
2013-01-04 09:48:50 AM

dmars: Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!

The only way to avoid that is if they do what Blizzard has been doing, which is having the games tied to your account. Once the game is tied to your account it doesn't matter what disc I use or if I download the game straight from them, but then you would have to be always online and that is another bag of problems that get consumers irate.


Read an article last night saying the way the cable companies are going, they are trying to force tiered/capped bandwidth for high speed internet connections...

If they do start pushing that, I can imagine how that will hurt a lot of commercial sectors, not just online gaming, but all these cloud services, and small businesses that use the internet to do a lot of their business.
 
2013-01-04 09:49:20 AM

tricycleracer: FinFangFark: If you buy a used version, it will lock content, and you will have to DLC the rest of the game, which will cost about the same as a new copy.

I feel like GameStop would file a creative lawsuit to stop this since it will destroy the most profitable part of their business model.


Well, no they would react like all physical retailers do. Refuse to stock the related products/ redeem codes. The majority of sales for consoles is still to the demographic that learns about games, and their game systems, by finding the box on a shelf.
 
2013-01-04 09:51:39 AM

tricycleracer: FinFangFark: If you buy a used version, it will lock content, and you will have to DLC the rest of the game, which will cost about the same as a new copy.

I feel like GameStop would file a creative lawsuit to stop this since it will destroy the most profitable part of their business model.


They're not the only ones doing this, either. Best Buy and Amazon are also invested in the used games market juuust enough.


This all comes from a potentially fatal flaw in the console sales model. The console companies such as Microsoft and Sony sell their system at an initial per-unit loss and make their money on selling the license to developers/distributors, so they make their initial money entirely on software sales.

But the reason Gamestop started expanding the role of used games in their business was the rather thin margin of profit on new titles. That's why the pre-order system gets pushed SO hard in their stores - it gives them a better picture of the new inventory they need to distribute to stores, and the number munchers in Grapevine would rather have a store sit on used inventory the company paid $50 for than a comparable number of new titles that cost them $400.
 
2013-01-04 09:52:19 AM

Burr: Egoy3k: Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,

The used car market doesn't rip off the car manufacturers so why is this true for video games?

Yeah, I never heard music or movie people biatching about this (unless I wasn't listening close enough). How is the video game market different from any other market where you can resell something?


Because music and movies generally aren't quite so overpriced. A movie cost millions to make, but copies are sold for $15-$20. A video game cost similar millions to make, and copies are sold for $60 or more. 6 months later, that same movie will lose about 50% of its value and sell for $10 used. That video game will lose 75% or more of its value and go for $10-$15 used.
 
2013-01-04 09:52:33 AM

satanorsanta: PS3 already has something like this for a bunch of games. If you buy the used version part of the game is locked out. For Arkham City the Catwoman part was unavailable if you got the game used unless you bought the DLC. For Assassins Creed 3 the multi-player was locked out on a used game, same with MLB13. This is not going to be different just comprehensive .


oh yes, 'Project $10'. It was an EA started thing designed to discourage used sales that other publishers picked up fairly rapidly. It's now basically the standard for many games on ps3, 30, or even the PC at times.
 
2013-01-04 09:52:39 AM

satanorsanta: PS3 already has something like this for a bunch of games. If you buy the used version part of the game is locked out. For Arkham City the Catwoman part was unavailable if you got the game used unless you bought the DLC. For Assassins Creed 3 the multi-player was locked out on a used game, same with MLB13. This is not going to be different just comprehensive .


Neither of those things have anything to do with the PS3. Those are put in place by the game publishers.
 
2013-01-04 09:52:47 AM

Antimatter: Based on what?


First-sale doctrine

It gets fuzzy when you get into the argument of how much of a game is physically on the disc and how much is a "digital copy" downloaded from the publisher.
 
2013-01-04 09:53:19 AM

Antimatter: Most licensed PC software, for example is just as expensive if not more so then any console game.


Someone doesn't use Steam.
 
2013-01-04 09:54:03 AM

dmars: but then you would have to be always online


The console makers know better than this, because they still sell a third of their consoles in North America to people who don't connect the system to the internet - the state of broadband connection in this country is still pretty putrid.
 
2013-01-04 09:55:09 AM
Why?

More and more people are buying digitally anyway. Taking this step isn't really necessary. Provide incentives for your customer to go digital (cheaper prices for starters) and those that can will do so willingly taking care of the issue without any perceived ill will.

I can't remember the last time I purchased a PC game on disk. I can't remember the last time I used my PC's optical drive...

The bonus of digital content is that in many cases it is tied to your account (Steam, XBox) and you can just download it again.
 
2013-01-04 09:55:46 AM

capnmonkey: I think a better strategy is to pair DLC/in game items/bonuses with new copies of the game, and once you redeem the code and link it to your account its done.

That would tempt some people to pay $50 for the new version which comes with horse armor DLC or whatever, rather than paying shiatty gamestop $35 for a used copy.


That seems the most logical way to do it. I have the XL edition of GT5 which came with a code to get all the DLC available at the time of XL's release and a 20 dollar credit for additional DLC later. So I bought the XL edition new instead of a used copy of GT.

I think this is shortsighted in that a lot of sales still occur from a friend bringing over a disk. The only reason I have Just Cause is a friend lent me the disc for a weekend when he'd be out of town. Had that not happened, I'd never have bought my own copy.
 
2013-01-04 09:58:42 AM

MindStalker: Burr: Egoy3k: Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,

The used car market doesn't rip off the car manufacturers so why is this true for video games?

Yeah, I never heard music or movie people biatching about this (unless I wasn't listening close enough). How is the video game market different from any other market where you can resell something?

Because music and movies generally aren't quite so overpriced. A movie cost millions to make, but copies are sold for $15-$20. A video game cost similar millions to make, and copies are sold for $60 or more. 6 months later, that same movie will lose about 50% of its value and sell for $10 used. That video game will lose 75% or more of its value and go for $10-$15 used.


By the time you get to buy a music or movie on disc, it's already been released to other audiences. For music, you have the airwaves licenses for radio play, license to use in other media (movies, TV, etc), the concerts (with associated high ticket prices, bookign fees, etc) and band merchandise/endorsements, etc.

Movies you of course have the cineplex release first, which is where most of the money is made. Later you have multiple home releases, special editions, collectors editions, anniversary editions, rental license, TV syndacation rights, etc.
 
zez
2013-01-04 09:58:49 AM
I guess I'll never get one of those consoles then. My library loans out Wii and xbox360 games so that's where we get all ours.

/kids are currently switching between the 3 lego games they have checked out
 
2013-01-04 09:58:51 AM

corronchilejano: the opposite of charity is justice: That'll surely recover from the PS3 fiasco and retake the lead in the console wars.

[i220.photobucket.com image 615x345]


Yeah, the "failure" of the PS3 was pretty much just the first 6-12 months of the system's cycle. There were some major firmware errors and a particularly god-awful set of titles. At least Wii launched with Twilight Princess and the 360 launched with CoD2 and had Oblivion six months later.

Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.
 
2013-01-04 10:01:53 AM

FinFangFark: Burr: I used to buy about one new game a month back in day, starting in the early 90's. Around 2000 that number started dropping. Now I either buy used (about 6-12 months after it comes out) and maybe 1 new game a year. It might be that I have changed somewhat, but it just seems like such a hassle anymore, and I grew up with making boot disks, CONFIG.SYS and HIMEM.

/has a library of at least 200 games over about 5 different systems, most of them are PC.
//"collector"

You know Nintendo won't go this route, and I think Microsoft was just throwing it out there to see if would stick.  But, with that said, if both companies DID do this, you can look at PC gaming to take a huge jump again, especially if people start throwing emulators out there that can crack these discs.

And discs?  Really?  Do flash drives have a lower life expectancy vs discs still?


I'm on my 4th hard drive in a decade, in that time I've owned maybe 15-20 flash drives. Meanwhile my Weezer Blue Album and Quake II PS disc have survived endless replay and still work to this day.
Shirt answer: Yes.
 
2013-01-04 10:01:54 AM

UNC_Samurai: Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.


I thought that they succeeded in that all the ones they bought where never updated so that everything continued as planned. But they couldn't buy new ones which no longer shipped with Linux possibilities, killing further research.
 
2013-01-04 10:02:05 AM

corronchilejano: Antimatter: Most licensed PC software, for example is just as expensive if not more so then any console game.

Someone doesn't use Steam.


I was referring to the ones that are major license stuff, ie it's very clear you don't own it, like photoshop, autocad, windows, etc.

Steam is quite well used at my house, although, Steam doesn't allow for used games, and is pretty restrictive, seeing as everything is tied to one steam account and cannot be activated on others.
 
2013-01-04 10:03:28 AM

UNC_Samurai: corronchilejano: the opposite of charity is justice: That'll surely recover from the PS3 fiasco and retake the lead in the console wars.

[i220.photobucket.com image 615x345]

Yeah, the "failure" of the PS3 was pretty much just the first 6-12 months of the system's cycle. There were some major firmware errors and a particularly god-awful set of titles. At least Wii launched with Twilight Princess and the 360 launched with CoD2 and had Oblivion six months later.

Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.


Why? They didn't remotely disable that cluster, and the airforce never had a reason to update the firmware as they don't play games on it.
 
2013-01-04 10:03:44 AM

MindStalker: UNC_Samurai: Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.

I thought that they succeeded in that all the ones they bought where never updated so that everything continued as planned. But they couldn't buy new ones which no longer shipped with Linux possibilities, killing further research.


To my knowledge they were able to use the first 300 they bought, but that they ended up doing something else with the other 2200.
 
2013-01-04 10:05:03 AM

GlobalStrategic MapleSyrup Reserve: FinFangFark: Burr: *snip*

Shirt answer: Yes.


skreened.com
Okie silly-dilly dokie oh, I'm an idiot.
 
2013-01-04 10:11:51 AM

KellyX: dmars: Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!

The only way to avoid that is if they do what Blizzard has been doing, which is having the games tied to your account. Once the game is tied to your account it doesn't matter what disc I use or if I download the game straight from them, but then you would have to be always online and that is another bag of problems that get consumers irate.

Read an article last night saying the way the cable companies are going, they are trying to force tiered/capped bandwidth for high speed internet connections...

If they do start pushing that, I can imagine how that will hurt a lot of commercial sectors, not just online gaming, but all these cloud services, and small businesses that use the internet to do a lot of their business.


Bye, bye, Netflix.
 
2013-01-04 10:12:35 AM

starlost: a used 2008 toyota tacoma doesn't have the same quality and longevity as a new 2013 toyota tacoma and that is why it is cheaper. i'm waiting for the day a car always works and never wears out unless it gets a scratch in the paint and then will never work again.
that disc either works or it doesn't.
if a disc aged like a car or like how just about anything else it would be a better comparison. maybe they should start doing the limited plays system again. didn't best buy have a movie player years ago that let you play a disc a few times? it bombed.


A used book is just as readable and usable as a new one, and doesn't lose value through wear and tear the way a car does. And yet publishers have never attacked the legitimacy of used bookstores.

The video game publishers are full of shiat. They are greedy little piggies that think they are somehow different than any other maker of tangible goods. The right of first sale is a universally acknowledged right of consumers. You buy a book, a CD, a magazine, a DVD, a Blu-Ray, a car, a bicycle, or anything else, and you are perfectly within your rights to lend or resell that object without owing another dime to the manufacturer. Once you pay the purchase price, it is yours to do with as you please. The video game industry is the only industry that consistently attacks this principle, this fundamental right of consumers. People shouldn't stand for it. Being able to buy and sell used goods, things that you own, should be a right that you should not relinquish easily.
 
2013-01-04 10:14:09 AM
You know, I would be OK with this if they tied your console ID to a login in case you have to buy a new system

And if they figure out the amount of money they lose to used game sales and reduce the new one-owner game prices to account for it.

But they won't, they will still try to charge $60 a game, so fark 'em.
 
2013-01-04 10:14:47 AM

KellyX: dmars: Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!

The only way to avoid that is if they do what Blizzard has been doing, which is having the games tied to your account. Once the game is tied to your account it doesn't matter what disc I use or if I download the game straight from them, but then you would have to be always online and that is another bag of problems that get consumers irate.

Read an article last night saying the way the cable companies are going, they are trying to force tiered/capped bandwidth for high speed internet connections...

If they do start pushing that, I can imagine how that will hurt a lot of commercial sectors, not just online gaming, but all these cloud services, and small businesses that use the internet to do a lot of their business.


They already paid the NC state legislature to make municipal broadband impossible to implement: Link
 
2013-01-04 10:17:19 AM

Faps_in_the_kitchen: Gran Turismo 5


Quite possibly the worst racing game ever made. Absolutely pathetic that they ported over 3/4ths of the game from the PS2's GT4 and hardly upscaled anything. And that it took them 6 years to do it.

www.gamesaktuell.de

www.allgamernews.com

GT's time is done. Project C.A.R.S. is going to blow it out of the water next year.
 
2013-01-04 10:24:43 AM

Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!


If it actually happens like this, it would appear that the 360 might be the last gaming system I ever purchase.
 
2013-01-04 10:34:06 AM
Guess who's not going to upgrade from his PS3 if this goes through?

Multiply by tens of millions of people, and this could be the decision that sinks Sony. Too bad, too, 'cuz over the years I liked my:

Walkman
Home video camera
DVD player
TV
Surround sound
PS2
PS3

I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.
 
2013-01-04 10:39:54 AM

Glitchwerks: Quite possibly the worst racing game ever made. Absolutely pathetic that they ported over 3/4ths of the game from the PS2's GT4 and hardly upscaled anything. And that it took them 6 years to do it.


Well they needed to stick in six thousand farking versions of the Honda Civic after all. So they could brag about how many cars they had. Personally I would have been happy with a couple hundred perfectly rendered cars and scratch the other 700 out of the game (or give me an option of: "Hey we have some older, lower quality models, would you like me to load them? Warning: They're still kinda fugly".

GT5's biggest issue I think was failing to understand how all they needed to release was a solid core of cars and tracks and they could DLC out the rest in expansion packs later.

/still like the game, but it could have been better
 
2013-01-04 10:41:15 AM

Doc Daneeka: Being able to buy and sell used goods, things that you own, should be a right that you should not relinquish easily.


The argument now is that you don't "own" anything, you "lease" it. It's insultingly anti-consumer, but it's what people have come to accept as long as they can get their fix of the latest "widget-X". People have become so obsessed with their desire to consume that they no longer even see the abuse being thrown on them or will gladly rationalize it away. The only way to fight it would be to deny the pushers their income, but people won't because they are addicts. Hopeless, pathetic, addicts.
 
2013-01-04 10:42:42 AM
I don't get it, if they really wanted to do this then why not just lock the box down to not include any sort of external drive. Give the box a hard drive and you get x amount of storage on a cloud.

Sell rights to play the game on any compatible device you are logged into, log into your PS4 play the game, log into your friends PS4 you can play the game. That way you can only buy and download games from their store and play them only from the account you own. Skip the whole physical media all together.

Finally build an emulator for PS 1, 2, & 3 games on the PS 4 and give free licenses for Sony games that play on those consoles to anyone who can send in a disk of the games you want a license for. Allow other publishers to do the same.
 
2013-01-04 10:47:24 AM

Doc Daneeka: starlost: a used 2008 toyota tacoma doesn't have the same quality and longevity as a new 2013 toyota tacoma and that is why it is cheaper. i'm waiting for the day a car always works and never wears out unless it gets a scratch in the paint and then will never work again.
that disc either works or it doesn't.
if a disc aged like a car or like how just about anything else it would be a better comparison. maybe they should start doing the limited plays system again. didn't best buy have a movie player years ago that let you play a disc a few times? it bombed.

A used book is just as readable and usable as a new one, and doesn't lose value through wear and tear the way a car does. And yet publishers have never attacked the legitimacy of used bookstores.

The video game publishers are full of shiat. They are greedy little piggies that think they are somehow different than any other maker of tangible goods. The right of first sale is a universally acknowledged right of consumers. You buy a book, a CD, a magazine, a DVD, a Blu-Ray, a car, a bicycle, or anything else, and you are perfectly within your rights to lend or resell that object without owing another dime to the manufacturer. Once you pay the purchase price, it is yours to do with as you please. The video game industry is the only industry that consistently attacks this principle, this fundamental right of consumers. People shouldn't stand for it. Being able to buy and sell used goods, things that you own, should be a right that you should not relinquish easily.


Yeah, but Americans are stupid. Give them $5 off the retail price and they will gladly sign away their rights.
 
2013-01-04 10:58:10 AM

ha-ha-guy: Glitchwerks: Quite possibly the worst racing game ever made. Absolutely pathetic that they ported over 3/4ths of the game from the PS2's GT4 and hardly upscaled anything. And that it took them 6 years to do it.

Well they needed to stick in six thousand farking versions of the Honda Civic after all. So they could brag about how many cars they had. Personally I would have been happy with a couple hundred perfectly rendered cars and scratch the other 700 out of the game (or give me an option of: "Hey we have some older, lower quality models, would you like me to load them? Warning: They're still kinda fugly".

GT5's biggest issue I think was failing to understand how all they needed to release was a solid core of cars and tracks and they could DLC out the rest in expansion packs later.

/still like the game, but it could have been better


I have to agree here. GT5, while selling amazingly, and doing some things very well, really needs to rethink their car selection. They need to scrap all models made before Gt5, and rebuild a selected number in HD. You can DLC out the rest, as you build them.
 
2013-01-04 11:00:01 AM

fickenchucker: I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.


What will you buy then?  Because every console manufacture is doing this.
 
2013-01-04 11:01:50 AM

gingerjet: fickenchucker: I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.

What will you buy then?  Because every console manufacture is doing this.


Nintendo isn't. And further, they have stated that they're not going to do anything to try to obstruct the secondhand games market.
 
2013-01-04 11:03:11 AM
All I care about is that they make a platform that has a lot of fault tolerance. We are already seeing game companies who only make xbox games because support for PS3 is a pain for them. I buy my games new and only end up playing half of them anyway. As long as they don't screw that up, I am fine. Just give me a stable platform!
 
2013-01-04 11:03:24 AM
You'd think these companies would learn... You spend all these R&D dollars to DRM your product into an unusable state only to have the hackers crack your garbage a month later. Guess who comes out looking like heroes and guess who looks like asshats?

Valve stumbled onto the greatest retail model in a long time. Offer a service for free that basically cloud stores all your purchases for you. Then, instead of sticking it to your user base, actually offer them sales and deals on things they might actually like.
 
2013-01-04 11:03:56 AM

gingerjet: fickenchucker: I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.

What will you buy then?  Because every console manufacture is doing this.


I love how the "nothing" option doesn't even cross some people's minds.
 
2013-01-04 11:05:33 AM

Doc Daneeka: starlost: a used 2008 toyota tacoma doesn't have the same quality and longevity as a new 2013 toyota tacoma and that is why it is cheaper. i'm waiting for the day a car always works and never wears out unless it gets a scratch in the paint and then will never work again.
that disc either works or it doesn't.
if a disc aged like a car or like how just about anything else it would be a better comparison. maybe they should start doing the limited plays system again. didn't best buy have a movie player years ago that let you play a disc a few times? it bombed.

A used book is just as readable and usable as a new one, and doesn't lose value through wear and tear the way a car does. And yet publishers have never attacked the legitimacy of used bookstores.

The video game publishers are full of shiat. They are greedy little piggies that think they are somehow different than any other maker of tangible goods. The right of first sale is a universally acknowledged right of consumers. You buy a book, a CD, a magazine, a DVD, a Blu-Ray, a car, a bicycle, or anything else, and you are perfectly within your rights to lend or resell that object without owing another dime to the manufacturer. Once you pay the purchase price, it is yours to do with as you please. The video game industry is the only industry that consistently attacks this principle, this fundamental right of consumers. People shouldn't stand for it. Being able to buy and sell used goods, things that you own, should be a right that you should not relinquish easily.


Books. and movies, as well as music have multiple paths to revenue, and don't depend solely on first sales. Cars depreciate in value rapidly, as do most bikes.

As game budgets rise, and game prices don't rise a ton to compensate, they are getting squeezed more and more for revenue to make ends meet. Hence the rise of DLC, and special/collectors editions of games. Still, used games are a favorite target of major publishers on the console side.

You walk into a barnes and noble, and you don't see racks of used books for sale. Ditto for walking into a standalone video store. but nearly every store that sells games has racks of used ones these days. That just makes the publishers get even more testy about the whole thing.
 
2013-01-04 11:07:09 AM
1. They've been moving to this for a long time, exclusive downloadable content codes that come in the game when it ships is pretty irritating.

2. That's really going to suck when the first run of PS4s all brick and everyone is out not only the console but all the games they bought.
 
2013-01-04 11:07:54 AM
This will come regardless but not with this next generation. Eventually the disc drive will go away and the only way to get a game will be to download it from their online store.
 
2013-01-04 11:08:48 AM
Meanwhile, I can still play decades-old games on my PC. Heck, thanks to emulators, I can play decades-old games for other machines on my PC.
 
2013-01-04 11:09:58 AM

smimmy: This will come regardless but not with this next generation. Eventually the disc drive will go away and the only way to get a game will be to download it from their online store.


Yep. Confluence of cloud and console. Game consoles will achieve that fabled "pay-per-play" model they've been dying to put into place.
 
2013-01-04 11:10:12 AM

Doc Daneeka: gingerjet: fickenchucker: I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.

What will you buy then?  Because every console manufacture is doing this.

Nintendo isn't. And further, they have stated that they're not going to do anything to try to obstruct the secondhand games market.


Nintendo could care less what 3rd party publishers want, because most people buy nintendo systems for nintendo first party games, which often remain high priced even years after release. Furthermore, they are masters at multi-bites-at-the-apple, selling roms of old games and porting over and over to multiple platforms, for little cost but to great sales. Toss in all their external licensing for tv shows, and merchandise, and they have no shortage of sources of revanue.
 
2013-01-04 11:13:15 AM

Antimatter: You walk into a barnes and noble, and you don't see racks of used books for sale. Ditto for walking into a standalone video store. but nearly every store that sells games has racks of used ones these days. That just makes the publishers get even more testy about the whole thing.


A couple points:

1) If new game sales are being undercut by used sales because new games cost so much money, maybe they need to reconsider their price point for new games. They'd probably sell a hell of a lot more copies (and people would be less inclined to buy and sell used) if games cost less than $60 a pop. Just because the game cost millions to produce doesn't mean the retail price has to be so high. A blockbuster movie can cost hundreds of millions to produce, yet you can buy a movie ticket for ~$10 and purchase the DVD for under $20.

2) I doubt used sales really undercut new sales. In fact, I suspect the reverse is true, and that used sales actually spur new sales. All those retailers who deal in used games usually have some sort of trade-in program - i.e. you can trade in your used games for credit towards buying new games. Why do many people sell their used games? So that they can use that money to buy new games. In this way, the used market actually stimulates the sales of used games that many people would not otherwise be able to afford.

3) None of this is the consumer's problem anyway. Consumers shouldn't have to abdicate their rights just because video game developers and publishers can't figure out a working business model.
 
2013-01-04 11:13:26 AM

FormlessOne: Meanwhile, I can still play decades-old games on my PC. Heck, thanks to emulators, I can play decades-old games for other machines on my PC.


There is no used PC game market though, for any game made after the rise of the CD key in the late 90's. Modern games, with stuff like steam activation, are basically non existent outside of first sales.
 
2013-01-04 11:17:18 AM

Antimatter: Steam doesn't allow for used games, and is pretty restrictive, seeing as everything is tied to one steam account and cannot be activated on others.


True, but the prices are low enough to not even need a 2nd hand game, unlike, for example, Origin, which asks for the same price with or without a physical medium (absurd).
 
2013-01-04 11:18:20 AM

Antimatter: ha-ha-guy: Glitchwerks: Quite possibly the worst racing game ever made. Absolutely pathetic that they ported over 3/4ths of the game from the PS2's GT4 and hardly upscaled anything. And that it took them 6 years to do it.

Well they needed to stick in six thousand farking versions of the Honda Civic after all. So they could brag about how many cars they had. Personally I would have been happy with a couple hundred perfectly rendered cars and scratch the other 700 out of the game (or give me an option of: "Hey we have some older, lower quality models, would you like me to load them? Warning: They're still kinda fugly".

GT5's biggest issue I think was failing to understand how all they needed to release was a solid core of cars and tracks and they could DLC out the rest in expansion packs later.

/still like the game, but it could have been better

I have to agree here. GT5, while selling amazingly, and doing some things very well, really needs to rethink their car selection. They need to scrap all models made before Gt5, and rebuild a selected number in HD. You can DLC out the rest, as you build them.


The biggest problem, in my opinion, is that the GT series simply isn't paying attention to to their competitors. Forza has turned tuning, customization, and online competition into an art. Shift 2, while hampered by flawed physics and bad wheel support, has the single best selection of tracks and the best career modes in a racing game to date.

Both the NFS and Forza series also have tons of multiplayer options, ranging from the ability to share tunes to ghosts. Forza allows people to freely swap cars.

GT has next to none of that interaction. If Polyphony Digital actually paid attention to other games, that would go a long way. Instead they make this insular, broken game, hobbled by bad game mechanics such as a limited paint chip system. They pretty much ruined the game when they locked out the best cars from being traded.

I won't even go into how short, unrewarding, boring, and monotonous the single player career option is in GT5. 9 hours on Tsukuba? Fark that.
 
2013-01-04 11:19:56 AM
Antimatter: You walk into a barnes and noble, and you don't see racks of used books for sale. Ditto for walking into a standalone video store. but nearly every store that sells games has racks of used ones these days. That just makes the publishers get even more testy about the whole thing..

notsureifserious,jpg

There's a B&N near my house that has a rather large used section. I know that it's not the only one. Hell, they've got used book buying and selling mechanism on their website!

Also, video stores have sold used copies (mostly of their stock) since the VHS days to keep their stock going. Last time I was actually in a video store, they were still doing this with used movies and games.

/Thinking you might be trolling here.
 
2013-01-04 11:20:17 AM
who cares? the alarmists remind me of 4 years ago when everybody was afraid to go all digital with PC game purchases on steam even tho physical discs were meaningless already because of activation codes... now nobody bats an eyelash at buying $60 games on steam, even casuals are fine with downloading games onto their smartphones or tablets, and more people than ever are downloading copies of microsoft office or other applications on windows or mac os

that "no-resale" future is already here, being spearheaded by the rest of the software industry... consoles aren't leaders anymore in at-home entertainment, so they adapt or die to preserve what revenue they still have
 
2013-01-04 11:20:20 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about this actually being implemented. It would surely and swiftly kill the PS4.

That said, the entertainment industry in general is chock full o' uber-greedy pricks who spend all of their waking hours figuring out fun new ways to fark every last penny from their customers. It's not about "piracy" so much as it's about "daddy needs a 4th Olympic-sized swimming pool full of Dom Perignon"
 
2013-01-04 11:23:26 AM

Doc Daneeka: Antimatter: You walk into a barnes and noble, and you don't see racks of used books for sale. Ditto for walking into a standalone video store. but nearly every store that sells games has racks of used ones these days. That just makes the publishers get even more testy about the whole thing.

A couple points:

1) If new game sales are being undercut by used sales because new games cost so much money, maybe they need to reconsider their price point for new games. They'd probably sell a hell of a lot more copies (and people would be less inclined to buy and sell used) if games cost less than $60 a pop. Just because the game cost millions to produce doesn't mean the retail price has to be so high. A blockbuster movie can cost hundreds of millions to produce, yet you can buy a movie ticket for ~$10 and purchase the DVD for under $20.

2) I doubt used sales really undercut new sales. In fact, I suspect the reverse is true, and that used sales actually spur new sales. All those retailers who deal in used games usually have some sort of trade-in program - i.e. you can trade in your used games for credit towards buying new games. Why do many people sell their used games? So that they can use that money to buy new games. In this way, the used market actually stimulates the sales of used games that many people would not otherwise be able to afford.

3) None of this is the consumer's problem anyway. Consumers shouldn't have to abdicate their rights just because video game developers and publishers can't figure out a working business model.


1. Games are actually quite cheaper now then in the past. an SNES game could cost you what, up to $70-80 in early 90's dollars, which woudl be 90-$100 today. Per game. And those were made by smaller teams for much less. Modern games retail for $60 in 2013 dollars, which would be what, $45 or so in 90's? Toss in much larger teams, and dramatically higher budgets, and you see the problem. Games also have a much smaller marketbase of user then movies. the market for a movie is anyone who can possibly walk into a cineplex. This is a few billion people. The market for games? Only the people who own the platform, a max a few tens of millions. Sell a million copies of a game and you are a hit. Sell a million tickets for a movie and you're a bust.

2. The problem is the gamestops of the world promote used games over new ones whenever possible, often giving incentives to trade in old, in demand games for newer, used games. Often, their selection of sealed new games is rather small by comparison. Not to mention, the new title you trade in for may not even be a full priced game anymore.

3. Your right, but it's also not the publishers problem if you can't resell it, as they don't make any money off the resell anyways. You can argue you have the right to sell it, and they can argue they have the right to promote new sales over used.
 
2013-01-04 11:28:48 AM

Stormgren: Antimatter: You walk into a barnes and noble, and you don't see racks of used books for sale. Ditto for walking into a standalone video store. but nearly every store that sells games has racks of used ones these days. That just makes the publishers get even more testy about the whole thing..

notsureifserious,jpg

There's a B&N near my house that has a rather large used section. I know that it's not the only one. Hell, they've got used book buying and selling mechanism on their website!

Also, video stores have sold used copies (mostly of their stock) since the VHS days to keep their stock going. Last time I was actually in a video store, they were still doing this with used movies and games.

/Thinking you might be trolling here.


Really? I guessed I just never really noticed as I tend to only buy new releases, since most of what I buy physically is manga. More often then note, I like those to be mint.

Video stores tend to resell their old rental copies, which cost more per disc originally, iirc. It's part of the nifty license agreement you need to rent movies, that games, iirc, don't have.
 
2013-01-04 11:32:48 AM

corronchilejano: Antimatter: Steam doesn't allow for used games, and is pretty restrictive, seeing as everything is tied to one steam account and cannot be activated on others.

True, but the prices are low enough to not even need a 2nd hand game, unlike, for example, Origin, which asks for the same price with or without a physical medium (absurd).


And that, i think, is why the PC gamers ignore their lose of resell ability. If Sony, or MS, wanted to do this sort of thing, they would have to have the same style of rapid price drops and sales. I don't think the brick and mortars would agree to sell physical copies if they did that though. In Pc gaming, physical copies are quite rare to see, except for very high profile titles, or pre-ordered copies, or crapware budget games. Digita just dominates thanks to the likes of steam.
 
2013-01-04 11:34:01 AM

dmars: Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!

The only way to avoid that is if they do what Blizzard has been doing, which is having the games tied to your account. Once the game is tied to your account it doesn't matter what disc I use or if I download the game straight from them, but then you would have to be always online and that is another bag of problems that get consumers irate.


I would like the new XBOX to do this. I've seen one friend buy multiple copies of Battlefield 3 because they had issues taking the disc out of the package and cracking it in the middle. Another friend bumped his XBOX in the middle of a Black Ops session and the disc came loose in the drive and the machine did a DJ Scratchy session on it. The discs are slow, prone to scratches, can be lost... they just need to go.
 
2013-01-04 11:34:20 AM
This is what they do. Create a great piece of hardware and then intentionally cripple it.

Sony always does this. Always.
 
2013-01-04 11:36:04 AM

StrangeQ: gingerjet: fickenchucker: I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.

What will you buy then?  Because every console manufacture is doing this.

I love how the "nothing" option doesn't even cross some people's minds.


You beat me to it. My kids are in high school--the only reason we have the games is so they have fun with each other and their friends, and occasionally take pity on me & let their old man play. I don't play them on my own, and the window if importance to us is closing. They'll be off driving and figuring out how to date girls soon.

If the PS4 is as easy to use for me as the PS3, I might upgrade to keep them happy. If it's a difficult-to-use money grab, fark it. The kids should be out doing things in the real world anyway.
 
2013-01-04 11:47:17 AM
i find it odd that steam is being held up as the antithesis of this model. Doesn't steam already do this? i can't re-sell any game i buy on steam or loan it out without giving another person direct access to my account. There's no such thing as a used game market on steam. I like steam because of the convenience and access to older titles, but i don't get why valve is lauded for something and sony is crucified for even considering doing the same thing?
 
2013-01-04 11:49:30 AM

starlost: a used 2008 toyota tacoma doesn't have the same quality and longevity as a new 2013 toyota tacoma and that is why it is cheaper. i'm waiting for the day a car always works and never wears out unless it gets a scratch in the paint and then will never work again.
that disc either works or it doesn't.
if a disc aged like a car or like how just about anything else it would be a better comparison. maybe they should start doing the limited plays system again. didn't best buy have a movie player years ago that let you play a disc a few times? it bombed.


So you're still playing Madden 2006?
 
2013-01-04 11:52:21 AM
To get away with this, first they have to eliminate the first sale principle of copyright law. The bad news is that they are well on their way to doing this. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/10/scotus-first-sale-2/
 
2013-01-04 11:52:23 AM

tlchwi02: i find it odd that steam is being held up as the antithesis of this model. Doesn't steam already do this? i can't re-sell any game i buy on steam or loan it out without giving another person direct access to my account. There's no such thing as a used game market on steam. I like steam because of the convenience and access to older titles, but i don't get why valve is lauded for something and sony is crucified for even considering doing the same thing?


Steam has sales and a lower MSRP on many titles, which seems to cause folks to forgive it's other transgressions. If sony or MS did the same, no one would really complain.
 
2013-01-04 11:52:57 AM

tlchwi02: i find it odd that steam is being held up as the antithesis of this model. Doesn't steam already do this? i can't re-sell any game i buy on steam or loan it out without giving another person direct access to my account. There's no such thing as a used game market on steam. I like steam because of the convenience and access to older titles, but i don't get why valve is lauded for something and sony is crucified for even considering doing the same thing?


I thought Steam let you trade and gift games to your friends? I've never done it but I thought you could.
 
2013-01-04 11:53:22 AM

Cheron: This seems fairly straight forward, you are not buying a game you are purchasing a license to use the game on one specific device. It is equally straight forward that a license is worth much less to the customer base so should be priced at about 20% to 25% the cost of buying a copy of the game.


So what happens if your console is broken or stolen?
 
2013-01-04 11:55:06 AM

H31N0US: Glad I'm too old to spend time playing games.


If you enjoy it, why not play? If your life is too filled with other responsibilities, that's not being "too old," it's just taking on too much work. What good is life without leisure time?
 
2013-01-04 11:55:35 AM

RTOGUY: tlchwi02: i find it odd that steam is being held up as the antithesis of this model. Doesn't steam already do this? i can't re-sell any game i buy on steam or loan it out without giving another person direct access to my account. There's no such thing as a used game market on steam. I like steam because of the convenience and access to older titles, but i don't get why valve is lauded for something and sony is crucified for even considering doing the same thing?

I thought Steam let you trade and gift games to your friends? I've never done it but I thought you could.


You can't gift a game you already activated. You can basically only do it for stuff newly purchased, or bough 'as a gift'. Trading items in some games is allowed though.
 
2013-01-04 11:55:44 AM

tlchwi02: ...but i don't get why valve is lauded for something and sony is crucified for even considering doing the same thing?


I don't know about the Sony Market, but on XBox live a game that you can buy physically for 60 dollars costs... 60 dollars on their store. Even OLD Games are 60 dollars. On Steam you can get games for a lower price (which is acceptable since there's no disk involved) and get frequent discounts which is always awesome.

Also, have you TRIED transfering games you purchased on one console to another one? A phreaking PAIN. Steam, on the other hand, I just log my user in there, and if the game was already downloaded I can play it right away... with all my saves and configurations saved on the cloud. If its not there, I can just download it there and that's it.

Steam has a convenience I have no idea why others have not adopted. They've made business out of the obvious, and even though they're what we always wanted in the past, its exactly what we have in the present and hopefully get more in the future.
 
2013-01-04 11:56:18 AM
So you sell the console with a 500GB or 1TB hard drive, and when you purchase a game (between 4-8 gigs) that makes sense.  I just don't like the always online concept like Blizzard and Steam, b/c when their systems go down, you can't play.

And imagine another PS Network nightmare...how long was that outtage?
 
2013-01-04 11:56:53 AM

Old enough to know better: Yeah thanks Sony, but I think I'll stick with downloading $10 indie games off Steam if its all the same.


You mean games that you can't trade in, purchase used, or loan to friends?
 
2013-01-04 12:01:20 PM

Antimatter: There is no used PC game market though, for any game made after the rise of the CD key in the late 90's. Modern games, with stuff like steam activation, are basically non existent outside of first sales.


Yeah, and except on release day and for a few months, I *rarely* buy a game at MSRP. Hell I just bought a couple copies of Human Revolution for 5 bucks a pop (it's 15-20 regularly) and handed them out to Steam buddies. Why? Because I like the game, it was on sale and my friends haven't been able to play it.

I've done this a couple dozen times now. Who the hell does that for friends on the console market?
 
2013-01-04 12:01:48 PM

corronchilejano: tlchwi02: ...but i don't get why valve is lauded for something and sony is crucified for even considering doing the same thing?

I don't know about the Sony Market, but on XBox live a game that you can buy physically for 60 dollars costs... 60 dollars on their store. Even OLD Games are 60 dollars. On Steam you can get games for a lower price (which is acceptable since there's no disk involved) and get frequent discounts which is always awesome.

Also, have you TRIED transfering games you purchased on one console to another one? A phreaking PAIN. Steam, on the other hand, I just log my user in there, and if the game was already downloaded I can play it right away... with all my saves and configurations saved on the cloud. If its not there, I can just download it there and that's it.

Steam has a convenience I have no idea why others have not adopted. They've made business out of the obvious, and even though they're what we always wanted in the past, its exactly what we have in the present and hopefully get more in the future.


Actually, redownloading on PSN is a snap. It still allows two active systems for any game, and all you have to do is sign in and then look at your download history. If you go over yoru limit, it's not too hard to deactivate one of your now unused consoles. It's only of the few things PSN actually did really well.

Cloud saves are psplus only though, but very handy. PsPlus was an absolute joke at launch, but now is actually kind of cool, mainly for the instaint game collection.
 
2013-01-04 12:06:04 PM

ajgeek: Antimatter: There is no used PC game market though, for any game made after the rise of the CD key in the late 90's. Modern games, with stuff like steam activation, are basically non existent outside of first sales.

Yeah, and except on release day and for a few months, I *rarely* buy a game at MSRP. Hell I just bought a couple copies of Human Revolution for 5 bucks a pop (it's 15-20 regularly) and handed them out to Steam buddies. Why? Because I like the game, it was on sale and my friends haven't been able to play it.

I've done this a couple dozen times now. Who the hell does that for friends on the console market?


And that's the key to making restrictive DRM work: make it cheap, and easy. I managed to get my sister into PC gaming again by gifting her games on steam, ditto for several of my friends.
 
2013-01-04 12:07:37 PM

Antimatter: Cloud saves are psplus only though, but very handy. PsPlus was an absolute joke at launch, but now is actually kind of cool, mainly for the instaint game collection.


This is sort of meh for me. Paying to access "free" games? I dunno, not my cup of tea but I can see how that can work and see it as a completely valid.

XBLA now, just farking assholes. I only buy the exclusives and the rest goes to Steam. If it ain't on Steam, I probably don't even try. And if this thing goes through? Goodbye Xbox and Playstation for next gen. I simply cannot support even more retarded policies for gaming.
 
2013-01-04 12:10:26 PM
If they're trying to sell you a $500 game playing device and also sell you $60 games, this won't work. People pay $60 right now for games that they can keep, trade with friends, re-sell, take to a friend's house and play, etc. These things have value. Making it un-sellable, un-tradable, un-transportable makes it worth much much much less. So they had better be considering selling games for $15-$20 NEW or this won't work at all.
 
2013-01-04 12:19:23 PM

corronchilejano: Antimatter: Cloud saves are psplus only though, but very handy. PsPlus was an absolute joke at launch, but now is actually kind of cool, mainly for the instaint game collection.

This is sort of meh for me. Paying to access "free" games? I dunno, not my cup of tea but I can see how that can work and see it as a completely valid.

XBLA now, just farking assholes. I only buy the exclusives and the rest goes to Steam. If it ain't on Steam, I probably don't even try. And if this thing goes through? Goodbye Xbox and Playstation for next gen. I simply cannot support even more retarded policies for gaming.


It's the cost, per year, of a single game, and gives me what, 10-15 games to play at any one time I think? Plus discounts and so on? Plus the cloud saves, auto-patching for games and system updates, and even auto scheduling of downloads from the store. It's pretty neat, and a hell of a bargain compared to XBL.

Granted I only have it because a friend gifted it to me for the holiday, but it's actually pretty neat.

steam is still my #1 source of games though. I've not played a console game since about June, save for a few demos. Handhelds have been getting some play though.
 
2013-01-04 12:21:34 PM
I really hope that this is just a test the waters sort of thing. I woudn't be upgrading my systems if that's what happened. I find that most of the games I pick up aren't worth $60 and that's why I get them used or wait until they're really cheap new. I think there needs to be a bit of an understanding that all games can't be priced the same.
 
2013-01-04 12:21:56 PM

Antimatter: Steam has sales and a lower MSRP on many titles, which seems to cause folks to forgive it's other transgressions. If sony or MS did the same, no one would really complain.


so the argument basically is "we just like valve better in general so we forgive them when they do X and we don't like sony or MS so we yell at them for even thinking of doing the same thing"?
 
2013-01-04 12:25:54 PM

tlchwi02: Antimatter: Steam has sales and a lower MSRP on many titles, which seems to cause folks to forgive it's other transgressions. If sony or MS did the same, no one would really complain.

so the argument basically is "we just like valve better in general so we forgive them when they do X and we don't like sony or MS so we yell at them for even thinking of doing the same thing"?


It's more like 'Valve does the same thing, but they are cheap so it's cool.'
 
2013-01-04 12:31:38 PM
I guess I won't buy a ps4 then. Pay $60 for a game a I might not like/that can play only in one location?No thanks.
 
2013-01-04 12:32:01 PM

Antimatter: It's more like 'Valve does the same thing, but they are cheap so it's cool.'


see, that doesn't make sense to me. either its ok to not allow used games/sharing/trading or it isn't to my mind. its like the old joke about the guy who asks a random woman if she'd sleep with him for a million bucks. now we're just haggling on the price.
 
2013-01-04 12:32:23 PM
From what my game store owning friend says, the group most affected by this will be poorer families. He still sells a boatload of PS, PS2, Xbox, Nintendo 64 and Game Cube games to low-income families, which for the most part is minorities where his store is located. These are also households that may not have persistent internet access, so there's no point in moving on to the next system because of the required downloads.
 
2013-01-04 12:34:02 PM
So, with the Ouya coming out this month and giving people an open platform with the requirement that all games developed for it have a "free to play" element, Sony and Microsoft decide to go the exact opposite direction and make their new consoles even more locked down and limited?

WTG, Sony & MS.

I'm not gung-ho on the Ouya yet. Time will tell if the games are decent or crap, or if it's all just a scam. However, I can see that there will be a lot of pissed off console gamers looking for an alternative that lets them either play used games, or gives them a more open market so prices won't be so ridiculous. I almost NEVER pay $60 for a game. I will wait and get it used several months later for $20, at the most. $60 for a game is more than 1/4 the price of the basic consoles these days. The Ouya, PC, and Wii U will have an advantage.

PC gaming might re-surge after the PS4/X720's launch, but it's still too expensive and too inconvenient compared to consoles. When PC games are guaranteed to not require tweaking before the game works, it will be on less-shaky ground. Right now, though, if you download a game from Steam you can't be guaranteed that you won't have to spend half the day tweaking your rig or Windows settings to make it work properly. And of course, Steam games are disabled if you don't log into Steam every so-many days. If you're trying to play your Steam collection without Internet access, you're screwed.

I think it's time for a new console. Not just a little one like the Ouya, which I predict will have some fun games but will be loaded with crapware and shovelware, but a new major player... Or maybe an old player who makes a comeback.

SEGA, Mattel, Commodore, or Magnavox... Your time may be at hand. Picture this: NEW GENESIS, INTELLIVISION HD, C=1080, or the ODYSSEY 4HD.

Make it happen.
 
2013-01-04 12:34:38 PM
Uh...given that the entire industry is moving towards pure digital distribution anyway, the eventual inability to share/borrow has been a known inevitability for ages. Is this any worse than if someone, say, came out with a system that didn't have an optical drive at all? It's all going away one way or the other, fellas, and it's industry-wide. Let's see if they actually leverage this patent, though.
 
2013-01-04 12:35:56 PM

the opposite of charity is justice: Be the industry leader on this one, Sony. Guarantee that places like Gamestop and Best Buy won't carry the PS4 and that consumers hate you even more than they already do.


I'll take "retailers that won't exist in 3 years for 400", Alex.
 
2013-01-04 12:41:29 PM

ZeroCorpse: So, with the Ouya coming out this month and giving people an open platform with the requirement that all games developed for it have a "free to play" element, Sony and Microsoft decide to go the exact opposite direction and make their new consoles even more locked down and limited?


Seriously? No one gives a fark about Ouya. Seriously. It is not relevant to the industry and it is going to flop hard. I promise you this. Sony/MS/Nintendo aren't concerned with it because it addresses a tiny segment of people who for some reason would pay money to play cell phone quality games on a TV.
 
2013-01-04 12:41:57 PM

Antimatter: tlchwi02: Antimatter: Steam has sales and a lower MSRP on many titles, which seems to cause folks to forgive it's other transgressions. If sony or MS did the same, no one would really complain.

so the argument basically is "we just like valve better in general so we forgive them when they do X and we don't like sony or MS so we yell at them for even thinking of doing the same thing"?

It's more like 'Valve does the same thing, but they are cheap so it's cool.'


Which isn't true as new games on Steam are similarly priced to the console counterpart (and sometimes the console version even reduces price quicker). Don't get me wrong I'm just as big a steam fanboy who only buys games from there (311 games so far) but even I'll admit that is a load of crap.

This really reminds me of the whole backwards compatibility ordeal which I admit was adamant about. People biatched about BC being removed/dropped from the PS3 and 360 and yet something like 10% of users ever played a game through backwards compatibility and when the original xbox live servers were taken down there was less than a 100 people logging into any original xbox game nightly.
 
2013-01-04 12:42:01 PM
Because I have nowhere else to complain, I bought Sleeping Dogs on steam last week (I have a PS3 but I've been slowly shifting away from it for non-exclusives) after hearing my PC gamer buddy talk my ear off about the benefits of PC vs console, and I have a beefy PC workstation anyway that can handle new games at basically max.

I hate mouse+kb but my USB controller isn't mapped properly (the game is tailored to a 360 controller on PC and my button #s don't align) and I can't figure out any way to remap buttons. I don't want to jump with L1 and aim with Triangle, so I'm just waiting for a 360 controller to arrive and just lose my old one. Even Joy2Key which I normally use won't work, as I remap the buttons to keys but there's no way to disable joystick input and just use keys! So it still reads the keymap AND the js button with each press, which is REALLY screwy. Should've gone with PS3 :(

Who doesn't let you remap buttons nowadays? Only a mild annoyance but I'm not used to these issues as an infrequent PC gamer.
 
2013-01-04 12:55:43 PM

Saners: This really reminds me of the whole backwards compatibility ordeal which I admit was adamant about. People biatched about BC being removed/dropped from the PS3 and 360 and yet something like 10% of users ever played a game through backwards compatibility ...


I do think its removal was a mistake, I can see needing to remove the hardware for cost reasons, but they should have left the emulation on the PS3.
It has its uses, but not that common ones. as most people are only playing the newest games on the market, and do not go back to old systems with 'horrible' graphics. If a new game comes out in a series, it is nice to be able to play the preceding games again, or try them if you never plauyed them before. It is a bit of a customer loyalty thing, being able to play the games for the last system enables me to only have 1 system hooked up at a time, which is better for organization and appearances as I do not want to have to have a PS1, PS2 and PS3 hooked up to my TV if I can have only 1 attached.
 
2013-01-04 01:00:51 PM
cdn-static.zdnet.com

Soon.
 
2013-01-04 01:06:10 PM

sjmcc13: Saners: This really reminds me of the whole backwards compatibility ordeal which I admit was adamant about. People biatched about BC being removed/dropped from the PS3 and 360 and yet something like 10% of users ever played a game through backwards compatibility ...

I do think its removal was a mistake, I can see needing to remove the hardware for cost reasons, but they should have left the emulation on the PS3.
It has its uses, but not that common ones. as most people are only playing the newest games on the market, and do not go back to old systems with 'horrible' graphics. If a new game comes out in a series, it is nice to be able to play the preceding games again, or try them if you never plauyed them before. It is a bit of a customer loyalty thing, being able to play the games for the last system enables me to only have 1 system hooked up at a time, which is better for organization and appearances as I do not want to have to have a PS1, PS2 and PS3 hooked up to my TV if I can have only 1 attached.


There was no emulation though, it was all hardware BC. Ps2 games can be tricky to emulate because so many used various tips and tricks to milk performance out of the ps2, that were not at all in line with normal development guidelines. Cell wasn't the greatest environment to write a ps2 emulator in, ether.

the way they got around this was similar to how the 360's BC works: they had to basically write a custom emulator for each game in the psn's ps2 classics releases.
 
2013-01-04 01:10:52 PM

ha-ha-guy: capnmonkey: I think a better strategy is to pair DLC/in game items/bonuses with new copies of the game, and once you redeem the code and link it to your account its done.

That would tempt some people to pay $50 for the new version which comes with horse armor DLC or whatever, rather than paying shiatty gamestop $35 for a used copy.

That seems the most logical way to do it. I have the XL edition of GT5 which came with a code to get all the DLC available at the time of XL's release and a 20 dollar credit for additional DLC later. So I bought the XL edition new instead of a used copy of GT.

I think this is shortsighted in that a lot of sales still occur from a friend bringing over a disk. The only reason I have Just Cause is a friend lent me the disc for a weekend when he'd be out of town. Had that not happened, I'd never have bought my own copy.


Exactly.
 
2013-01-04 01:13:00 PM

Doc Daneeka: Antimatter: ***snip***

3) None of this is the consumer's problem anyway. Consumers shouldn't have to abdicate their rights just because video game developers and publishers can't figure out a working business model.


Innovation through legislation.
 
2013-01-04 01:16:10 PM

ZeroCorpse: So, with the Ouya coming out this month and giving people an open platform with the requirement that all games developed for it have a "free to play" element, Sony and Microsoft decide to go the exact opposite direction and make their new consoles even more locked down and limited?

WTG, Sony & MS.

I'm not gung-ho on the Ouya yet. Time will tell if the games are decent or crap, or if it's all just a scam. However, I can see that there will be a lot of pissed off console gamers looking for an alternative that lets them either play used games, or gives them a more open market so prices won't be so ridiculous. I almost NEVER pay $60 for a game. I will wait and get it used several months later for $20, at the most. $60 for a game is more than 1/4 the price of the basic consoles these days. The Ouya, PC, and Wii U will have an advantage.

PC gaming might re-surge after the PS4/X720's launch, but it's still too expensive and too inconvenient compared to consoles. When PC games are guaranteed to not require tweaking before the game works, it will be on less-shaky ground. Right now, though, if you download a game from Steam you can't be guaranteed that you won't have to spend half the day tweaking your rig or Windows settings to make it work properly. And of course, Steam games are disabled if you don't log into Steam every so-many days. If you're trying to play your Steam collection without Internet access, you're screwed.

I think it's time for a new console. Not just a little one like the Ouya, which I predict will have some fun games but will be loaded with crapware and shovelware, but a new major player... Or maybe an old player who makes a comeback.

SEGA, Mattel, Commodore, or Magnavox... Your time may be at hand. Picture this: NEW GENESIS, INTELLIVISION HD, C=1080, or the ODYSSEY 4HD.

Make it happen.


Ouya is a cellphone you play on the big screen, that was outdated hardware before it ever released. I'm not seeing a major hit there, outside the open source community.

the PC has all the problems this rumor has, but more. Expensive hardware, restricted DRM, no used/barrowing/etc, and many games start off at $60 these days at release.

Wii U has the same problem, with games retailing for what, $60, and many first party titles taking years to drop in price.
 
2013-01-04 01:17:36 PM

PanicMan: This is what they do. Create a great piece of hardware and then intentionally cripple it.

Sony always does this. Always.


Sony = Apple - fanboy wanking - PR machine.
 
2013-01-04 01:25:01 PM

roc6783: Doc Daneeka: Antimatter: ***snip***

3) None of this is the consumer's problem anyway. Consumers shouldn't have to abdicate their rights just because video game developers and publishers can't figure out a working business model.

Innovation through legislation.


On who's side though?
 
2013-01-04 01:26:50 PM

FinFangFark: So you sell the console with a 500GB or 1TB hard drive, and when you purchase a game (between 4-8 gigs) that makes sense.  I just don't like the always online concept like Blizzard and Steam, b/c when their systems go down, you can't play.

And imagine another PS Network nightmare...how long was that outtage?


I only have one Steam game, but I believe that unless the publisher requires always on DRM, there is an offline mode where you can play and save your game locally. Other users, please feel free to correct me.

tlchwi02: Antimatter: ***snip***

see, that doesn't make sense to me. either its ok to not allow used games/sharing/trading or it isn't to my mind. its like the old joke about the guy who asks a random woman if she'd sleep with him for a million bucks. now we're just haggling on the price.


No, it's as some else said upthread, "If you want me to not be able to trade or resell the game, while not giving me physical media, then I want a price reduction as the value of your game is diminished." Valve said, ok, we'll give you lower cost games and free optional cloud storage. Sony is trying to get the bonus of no resales, without giving up anything to the consumer.

And yes, your analogy is correct. If they want my money and I want their games, we are going to haggle about the "total value" of the game to me. "Total value" includes resales and trading, in addition to the price tag.
 
2013-01-04 01:29:00 PM

Antimatter: roc6783: Doc Daneeka: Antimatter: ***snip***

3) None of this is the consumer's problem anyway. Consumers shouldn't have to abdicate their rights just because video game developers and publishers can't figure out a working business model.

Innovation through legislation.

On who's side though?


Rather than add to the value proposition to increase revenue, Sony is trying to kill the secondary market. That isn't innovation, that's legislating out competition.
 
2013-01-04 01:29:56 PM

Rwa2play: PanicMan: This is what they do. Create a great piece of hardware and then intentionally cripple it.

Sony always does this. Always.

Sony = Apple - fanboy wanking - PR machine.


And that's actually quite sad. I have to wonder who in the company keeps thinking this is a great idea, despite massive outcry every time. at some point, someone has got to law down the law in favor of what gets them better sales.

For the vita, for example, memory cards are necessarily a bad thing, had they been priced sanely or came with all systems. instead they are way too expensive, and that turned a lot of folks off to the console.

On the ps3, they let Ken go way overboard on some specs, and it cost them their market lead, as well as a few exclusive series. I could have done without cell if it meant a cheaper launch and more games early on.

If they use this anti-used games stuff, they will throw away any chance of retaking the marketplace. the amount of FUD from MS or Nintendo would bury the consoles chances.
 
2013-01-04 01:33:48 PM

Egoy3k: Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,

The used car market doesn't rip off the car manufacturers so why is this true for video games?


Not quite the same... Used video games don't lose their value over time. Nothing that exists solely as 1s and 0s can depreciate, the way a car can. For this reason, there will always be a new car market, as some people are willing to pay for the status.
 
2013-01-04 01:35:04 PM
I'm a little amazed that no one else has mentioned this, but don't forget that this is in part also a defensive business move for Sony. Owning the patent for something like this is useful just so that your competition either can't develop it or must pay you for a license to use it.
The patent system needs some serious reform, but in the mean time rules is rules.
 
2013-01-04 01:35:25 PM

roc6783: Antimatter: roc6783: Doc Daneeka: Antimatter: ***snip***

3) None of this is the consumer's problem anyway. Consumers shouldn't have to abdicate their rights just because video game developers and publishers can't figure out a working business model.

Innovation through legislation.

On who's side though?

Rather than add to the value proposition to increase revenue, Sony is trying to kill the secondary market. That isn't innovation, that's legislating out competition.


No it's not, as they aren't passing any laws, hence, legislating. Pc games cost $60 as well, and lack all the resellability and trading, yet no one complains anymore. All this would be is adopting a PC style games model.

If anything, the cries of lawsuits, etc, to protect consumer rights would be the ones trying to legislate change rather then use the free market.

roc6783: No, it's as some else said upthread, "If you want me to not be able to trade or resell the game, while not giving me physical media, then I want a price reduction as the value of your game is diminished." Valve said, ok, we'll give you lower cost games and free optional cloud storage. Sony is trying to get the bonus of no resales, without giving up anything to the consumer.

And yes, your analogy is correct. If they want my money and I want their games, we are going to haggle about the "total value" of the game to me. "Total value" includes resales and trading, in addition to the price tag.



See above. New games cost just as much on the PC. All steam sales are is the same clearance prices you see on many older console and pc games in store. Steam isn't any cheaper for a lot of titles then just walking into a store and buying it, outside the annual sale.

Most of the lower priced indie games are priced about the same as they are on XBLA or PSN for similarly scoped titles.
 
2013-01-04 01:39:55 PM

Doc Daneeka: starlost: a used 2008 toyota tacoma doesn't have the same quality and longevity as a new 2013 toyota tacoma and that is why it is cheaper. i'm waiting for the day a car always works and never wears out unless it gets a scratch in the paint and then will never work again.
that disc either works or it doesn't.
if a disc aged like a car or like how just about anything else it would be a better comparison. maybe they should start doing the limited plays system again. didn't best buy have a movie player years ago that let you play a disc a few times? it bombed.

A used book is just as readable and usable as a new one, and doesn't lose value through wear and tear the way a car does. And yet publishers have never attacked the legitimacy of used bookstores.

The video game publishers are full of shiat. They are greedy little piggies that think they are somehow different than any other maker of tangible goods. The right of first sale is a universally acknowledged right of consumers. You buy a book, a CD, a magazine, a DVD, a Blu-Ray, a car, a bicycle, or anything else, and you are perfectly within your rights to lend or resell that object without owing another dime to the manufacturer. Once you pay the purchase price, it is yours to do with as you please. The video game industry is the only industry that consistently attacks this principle, this fundamental right of consumers. People shouldn't stand for it. Being able to buy and sell used goods, things that you own, should be a right that you should not relinquish easily.


College textbook publishers go to great lengths to undermine the used books market. In fact, they do things much more despicable than the video game industry. If I don't like a game, I can refuse to buy it. Capcom doesn't bribe my professor to make sure I fail chemistry and don't get my degree unless I spend $140 on a copy of Resident Evil 6.
 
2013-01-04 01:42:33 PM
It's interesting so many people are against Sony doing this, yet in the same breath they praise Steam as the greatest thing ever.

Does Steam allow you to buy/sell used games? No, they do not. If anything, Sony is trying to become more Steam-like.

But I think Sony won't ban used games when it's all said and done. I know I would not buy a PS4 that couldn't play used games.
 
2013-01-04 01:42:43 PM

Antimatter: And that's actually quite sad. I have to wonder who in the company keeps thinking this is a great idea, despite massive outcry every time. at some point, someone has got to law down the law in favor of what gets them better sales.

For the vita, for example, memory cards are necessarily a bad thing, had they been priced sanely or came with all systems. instead they are way too expensive, and that turned a lot of folks off to the console.

On the ps3, they let Ken go way overboard on some specs, and it cost them their market lead, as well as a few exclusive series. I could have done without cell if it meant a cheaper launch and more games early on.

If they use this anti-used games stuff, they will throw away any chance of retaking the marketplace. the amount of FUD from MS or Nintendo would bury the consoles chances.


I'd like to find the people that bring up ideas like this, send them all to the middle of the Grand Canyon, then drop a nuclear bomb right where they stand.

ha-ha-guy: capnmonkey: I think a better strategy is to pair DLC/in game items/bonuses with new copies of the game, and once you redeem the code and link it to your account its done.

That would tempt some people to pay $50 for the new version which comes with horse armor DLC or whatever, rather than paying shiatty gamestop $35 for a used copy.

That seems the most logical way to do it. I have the XL edition of GT5 which came with a code to get all the DLC available at the time of XL's release and a 20 dollar credit for additional DLC later. So I bought the XL edition new instead of a used copy of GT.

I think this is shortsighted in that a lot of sales still occur from a friend bringing over a disk. The only reason I have Just Cause is a friend lent me the disc for a weekend when he'd be out of town. Had that not happened, I'd never have bought my own copy.


This is the example they should be following. Encourage more people to buy your products, not discourage them by locking out a game.
 
2013-01-04 01:43:59 PM

Tommy Moo: Egoy3k: Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,

The used car market doesn't rip off the car manufacturers so why is this true for video games?

Not quite the same... Used video games don't lose their value over time. Nothing that exists solely as 1s and 0s can depreciate, the way a car can. For this reason, there will always be a new car market, as some people are willing to pay for the status.


Not quite the same but not that different. A 2012 model vehicle doesn't have all the same features as a 2013. A new version of the game would have more features. Suddenly that old game has lost value despite maintaining performance. And if it's a sports game it only has a one year shelf life anyways. Dlc rosters have fixed this; but still that game won't be supported forever.

And while the data may not degrade, the storage device will. I burned a hole in my NHL 2k2 game. Probably logged 1000 hours on it but I reached the mbtf point.

Books are the most relevant analogy. But each illustrates the point.
 
2013-01-04 01:44:18 PM

cefm: If they're trying to sell you a $500 game playing device and also sell you $60 games, this won't work. People pay $60 right now for games that they can keep, trade with friends, re-sell, take to a friend's house and play, etc. These things have value. Making it un-sellable, un-tradable, un-transportable makes it worth much much much less. So they had better be considering selling games for $15-$20 NEW or this won't work at all.


True in principle, though I think the discount you're expecting is a bit optimistic. $40-$50 instead of $60 is reasonable. In fact, you do see games come down in price faster and farther on the PlayStation store that shelves.
 
2013-01-04 01:55:45 PM
Is $60 really that bad, people? You're used to (and apparently ok with) paying $15-$20 for 2hrs of entertainment from a movie at the theatre.... yet, you won't spend $60 on 20-50+hrs??

Movie tickets: $10.00/hr
Video games: $1.20-$3.00/hr
 
2013-01-04 01:56:05 PM
I think it's funny that people are all "Whatever, I'll just use Steam." Well...if you're happy downloading games on your PC, I suspect you'll be fine downloading them on your PS4. And that's the real threat to the used game market.

Also, in this current console generation the last three console games I've played were all downloaded: Arkham Assylum, New Vegas, The Walking Dead.

I also have a suspicion that when a game is available at a large discount on the second hand market is when it becomes available on demand in this generation at a discount. So by the time I can buy Dishonored at a discount, I'll probably be able to download it.
 
2013-01-04 02:17:30 PM

Grither: Is $60 really that bad, people? You're used to (and apparently ok with) paying $15-$20 for 2hrs of entertainment from a movie at the theatre.... yet, you won't spend $60 on 20-50+hrs??

Movie tickets: $10.00/hr
Video games: $1.20-$3.00/hr


And if the movie sucks, I'm out $15. If the game sucks and I'm unable to sell it, I'm out 4x that with none of the entertainment time.
 
2013-01-04 02:24:08 PM

KingsleyZisou: Tommy Moo: Egoy3k: Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,

The used car market doesn't rip off the car manufacturers so why is this true for video games?

Not quite the same... Used video games don't lose their value over time. Nothing that exists solely as 1s and 0s can depreciate, the way a car can. For this reason, there will always be a new car market, as some people are willing to pay for the status.

Not quite the same but not that different. A 2012 model vehicle doesn't have all the same features as a 2013. A new version of the game would have more features. Suddenly that old game has lost value despite maintaining performance. And if it's a sports game it only has a one year shelf life anyways. Dlc rosters have fixed this; but still that game won't be supported forever.

And while the data may not degrade, the storage device will. I burned a hole in my NHL 2k2 game. Probably logged 1000 hours on it but I reached the mbtf point.

Books are the most relevant analogy. But each illustrates the point.


Most games don't have versions, they have sequels. To use a movie analogy, Jurassic park 1 is not suddenly worth less because the Lost World exists.

To use a game anology, Devil May cry 1 is not worth less because DMC 2 exists, because DMC 1 was the better game.

Sports games are the notable exception, as they are indeed 'versions' due to updated mechanics, stats, features, etc, but the same core gameplay. they, therefore, have little to no resell value or trade in life.

Now, normal games, depending on appeal, rarity, etc, have a reverse bell curve. They start off at once price, lose value, then gain it back as they get older and rarer. In some cases, they resell for far more then they ever retailed for as new games. It's very much like books in that regaurd,

For that reason, you see some classic games get reprinted/digitally released: there is demand for it, and the publishers want in on it. Sadly, for many long sought after games this isn't true. A mint copy of a used game like Lunar 2 complete still fetches a high sum.
 
2013-01-04 02:28:37 PM

006deluxe: Grither: Is $60 really that bad, people? You're used to (and apparently ok with) paying $15-$20 for 2hrs of entertainment from a movie at the theatre.... yet, you won't spend $60 on 20-50+hrs??

Movie tickets: $10.00/hr
Video games: $1.20-$3.00/hr

And if the movie sucks, I'm out $15. If the game sucks and I'm unable to sell it, I'm out 4x that with none of the entertainment time.


If only there were some way of reading review, seeing screenshots and gameplay videos, etc before you buy a game! Alas, all games are blind purchases based on box art.
 
2013-01-04 02:42:22 PM
If this actually happens it would render me unable to buy a PS4 as i cannot usually afford new game prices.

/had to save up for my PS3
/farking economy
 
2013-01-04 02:44:39 PM

UNC_Samurai: corronchilejano: the opposite of charity is justice: That'll surely recover from the PS3 fiasco and retake the lead in the console wars.

[i220.photobucket.com image 615x345]

Yeah, the "failure" of the PS3 was pretty much just the first 6-12 months of the system's cycle. There were some major firmware errors and a particularly god-awful set of titles. At least Wii launched with Twilight Princess and the 360 launched with CoD2 and had Oblivion six months later.

Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.


Those 2500 PS3s are in fact built into a cluster, run Linux (the Air Force never updated the firmware), and operate on their own internal, secure network.
I know this because one of my good friends works at GriffisAFB in that depatment and was the project lead on that operation.
 
2013-01-04 02:46:07 PM

Antimatter: 006deluxe: Grither: Is $60 really that bad, people? You're used to (and apparently ok with) paying $15-$20 for 2hrs of entertainment from a movie at the theatre.... yet, you won't spend $60 on 20-50+hrs??

Movie tickets: $10.00/hr
Video games: $1.20-$3.00/hr

And if the movie sucks, I'm out $15. If the game sucks and I'm unable to sell it, I'm out 4x that with none of the entertainment time.

If only there were some way of reading review, seeing screenshots and gameplay videos, etc before you buy a game! Alas, all games are blind purchases based on box art.


Not everyone is going to visit blogs and whatnot before purchasing the new, hot game. Especially parents purchasing for children. An argument could be made that they should, for content screening sake, but they don't.

I don't have a problem with paying $60 for a game as long as I can get rid of it like any other product if I so desire.
 
2013-01-04 02:46:44 PM

grimlock1972: If this actually happens it would render me unable to buy a PS4 as i cannot usually afford new game prices.

/had to save up for my PS3
/farking economy


Unless I absolutely want a game, I usually wait for the price drop. It's worth waiting a few months to get a $60 for $40 or less. Wait a year and the 'game of the year' edition will get you the game and all DLC for $30 or so.
 
2013-01-04 02:52:00 PM

006deluxe: Antimatter: 006deluxe: Grither: Is $60 really that bad, people? You're used to (and apparently ok with) paying $15-$20 for 2hrs of entertainment from a movie at the theatre.... yet, you won't spend $60 on 20-50+hrs??

Movie tickets: $10.00/hr
Video games: $1.20-$3.00/hr

And if the movie sucks, I'm out $15. If the game sucks and I'm unable to sell it, I'm out 4x that with none of the entertainment time.

If only there were some way of reading review, seeing screenshots and gameplay videos, etc before you buy a game! Alas, all games are blind purchases based on box art.

Not everyone is going to visit blogs and whatnot before purchasing the new, hot game. Especially parents purchasing for children. An argument could be made that they should, for content screening sake, but they don't.

I don't have a problem with paying $60 for a game as long as I can get rid of it like any other product if I so desire.


Not the publishers problem then. If they buy a product sight unseen, with no research, then tough nuggets.

so don't pay $60 for the game. Wait for a price drop, or do your research before buying. your own fault if you don't and get something that sucks, and if you get it as a gift, i've even less sympathy.
 
2013-01-04 03:10:34 PM
More of my money will go to Valve I guess.

/not like I play my PS3 anymore anyways
//except fo Gundam Extreme Vs. with my friends. That game is like crack.
 
2013-01-04 03:13:18 PM

AdamK: who cares? the alarmists remind me of 4 years ago when everybody was afraid to go all digital with PC game purchases on steam


steam has come a long way in the past 4 years (still has ways to go, especially offline more). the big issue here is consoles are taking up the cd-key model, that wasn't popular when it was introduced with pc games either. it's an antiquated new restriction on how consumers can use the product they buy, regardless of whether or not it will really affect them.


Electromax: Who doesn't let you remap buttons nowadays? Only a mild annoyance but I'm not used to these issues as an infrequent PC gamer.


this is because it's a bad port. the game was made for consoles first and the developer/publisher contracted out the pc release to a third party that basically just got the game working on a pc. when the developer of dark souls announced they would port it to pc, they pretty much said they'd do a quick and dirty job of it. a fan made fix is practically required to able to play this game on the pc.

try searching on google or steam forums for key mapping solutions, there's probably a solution to it out there.


FinFangFark: I just don't like the always online concept like Blizzard and Steam, b/c when their systems go down, you can't play.

And imagine another PS Network nightmare...how long was that outtage?


blizzard pretty much only makes multiplayer games, you have to be online to play them.
steam has an offline more and back up options. i've had steam since it was introduced and i can count on one hand the amount of times their servers been down.

the real issue is when your connection goes down and if internet providers get their way, when you hit your bandwidth cap. the idea of a cap is farked because the same providers offer on-demand and voip services that would easily eat up the cap.
 
2013-01-04 03:45:13 PM
Lol, console user problems. Just the other day I went to sell a game I'd bought through steam and...oh wait.

/maybe if you gamed less you'd have more money so you wouldn't have to sell your games to make ends meet, eh?
 
2013-01-04 03:47:49 PM

Antimatter: If only there were some way of reading review, seeing screenshots and gameplay videos, etc before you buy a game! Alas, all games are blind purchases based on box art.


Compare the screenshots that Sony released of Gran Turismo 5 with some of the actual in-game screenshots of standard cars I provided in an earlier post. Sony and Polyphony Digital flat out lied about the content of GT5, even listing features on the box that were not in the game when it shipped.

Also, many games nowadays are flat out bug fests with game breaking problems, those things are never mentioned in reviews, and the gamer is just supposed to accept that shiat and deal with it, because publishers don't want to pay for patches and testing certification.

Also, after the whole Gamespot/Jeff G. incident, we know most reviews are pretty much bullshiat anyway.
 
2013-01-04 03:51:34 PM

MindStalker: That video game will lose 75% or more of its value and go for $10-$15 used.


LOL must be nice to live in America.

/COD:BOII - $120 new, $100 used in NZ
//And they wonder why people pirate
 
2013-01-04 03:59:53 PM

if_i_really_have_to: MindStalker: That video game will lose 75% or more of its value and go for $10-$15 used.

LOL must be nice to live in America.

/COD:BOII - $120 new, $100 used in NZ
//And they wonder why people pirate


Holy shiat! That like $100 American.

Or 5,240 Yen for us and 8,740 Yen for you. WTF?
 
2013-01-04 04:03:17 PM

Glitchwerks: Antimatter: If only there were some way of reading review, seeing screenshots and gameplay videos, etc before you buy a game! Alas, all games are blind purchases based on box art.

Compare the screenshots that Sony released of Gran Turismo 5 with some of the actual in-game screenshots of standard cars I provided in an earlier post. Sony and Polyphony Digital flat out lied about the content of GT5, even listing features on the box that were not in the game when it shipped.

Also, many games nowadays are flat out bug fests with game breaking problems, those things are never mentioned in reviews, and the gamer is just supposed to accept that shiat and deal with it, because publishers don't want to pay for patches and testing certification.

Also, after the whole Gamespot/Jeff G. incident, we know most reviews are pretty much bullshiat anyway.


The screenshots were of premium cars, and they were well advertised that not all cars are premium cars.

As for the glitches? Always been the case, even back to the NES days. some snes games like DKC for example are hilariously broken, ditto for masterpieces like Zelda OoT. at least they can be patched these days, and many are.

As for reviews, don't base everything on a single source. Read several of them, and do other research.
 
2013-01-04 04:14:28 PM
If they're really jealous of the resale market, then they should switch to digital, but also allow the consumer to view their purchase as having more quality by creating a marketplace where people can sell their used games and give a slice back to Sony/Developers instead of Gamestop.

It'll be kind of weird, since it's digital, but...why not? I mean, realistically there's no difference between a opened and unopened game disc.
 
2013-01-04 04:16:38 PM

Antimatter: The screenshots were of premium cars, and they were well advertised that not all cars are premium cars.


They didn't advertise just how bad the standard cars were. In fact, they released a video during E3 and then pulled it when fans started noting the problems.

Antimatter: As for reviews, don't base everything on a single source. Read several of them, and do other research.


A lot of games have exclusive pre-order items that you can't get later. That might not mean a lot for stuff like "golden weapon skins" but when it's something like a BMW 1M, Ferrari 458 Italia, etc. it's a lot more important for petrolheads.

I see what you're saying, but my point is you really don't know if a game is going to be good or not until you're playing it yourself. Especially for stuff like racing simulations, because of things that reviewers just do not talk about, such as aftermarket wheel support.
 
2013-01-04 04:22:25 PM

Glitchwerks: Antimatter: The screenshots were of premium cars, and they were well advertised that not all cars are premium cars.

They didn't advertise just how bad the standard cars were. In fact, they released a video during E3 and then pulled it when fans started noting the problems.

Antimatter: As for reviews, don't base everything on a single source. Read several of them, and do other research.

A lot of games have exclusive pre-order items that you can't get later. That might not mean a lot for stuff like "golden weapon skins" but when it's something like a BMW 1M, Ferrari 458 Italia, etc. it's a lot more important for petrolheads.

I see what you're saying, but my point is you really don't know if a game is going to be good or not until you're playing it yourself. Especially for stuff like racing simulations, because of things that reviewers just do not talk about, such as aftermarket wheel support.


The Gt thing did suck, and honestly, I can't believe PD thought it would be a good idea. Still, they mentioned the difference between premium and non premium cars, but yeah, the standard ones looked horrid by comparison.

Again, not an excuse not to do your research. Most questions can be easily found out and answered pretty quickly, between reviews, and other online posts/discussions. The wheel question could be answered with something as easy as a forum post on their official site.

At any rate, if you do your research, and buy it, and it sucks, oh well really. It's no different then buying a bad PC game. I've been stuck with plenty of those. the key is unless you really trust a developer/series, it's best to just wait and see.
 
2013-01-04 04:22:30 PM
Goodbye X-box/PlayStation..

Hello Ouya!
 
2013-01-04 04:29:52 PM
dtdstudios.com

/Recovering PS3 player
 
2013-01-04 04:47:27 PM

Ed Finnerty: [dtdstudios.com image 541x250]

/Recovering PS3 player


You do realize the PC already does this, and worse, right?
 
2013-01-04 04:49:20 PM

Antimatter: Again, not an excuse not to do your research. Most questions can be easily found out and answered pretty quickly, between reviews, and other online posts/discussions. The wheel question could be answered with something as easy as a forum post on their official site.


It's a lot harder than that. Since the wheels are generally aftermarket, there won't be an official response. User responses can be a complete mixed bag, and finding someone who actually knows what they are talking about can be almost impossible.

Reviews, forums, online discussions, etc. are the same way...finding someone who actually knows what they are talking about can be very difficult, and made more difficult by the fact that there are so many people who think they know what they are talking about, but are compete idiots.

Antimatter: At any rate, if you do your research, and buy it, and it sucks, oh well really. It's no different then buying a bad PC game. I've been stuck with plenty of those. the key is unless you really trust a developer/series, it's best to just wait and see.


At this point nowadays, there are no developers or series you can trust. Which is pretty sad, imho.

I just don't think "buyer beware" is the right answer here, and if I can't sell a game I've bought, I'm far, far less likely to take a chance on a game at all.
 
2013-01-04 05:08:19 PM

Strategeryz0r: Goodbye X-box/PlayStation..

Hello Ouya!


man you need to drop a golden troll like that way upthread. nows its just going to fizzle
 
2013-01-04 05:10:17 PM

Glitchwerks:
At this point nowadays, there are no developers or series you can trust. Which is pretty sad, imho.

I just don't think "buyer beware" is the right answer here, and if I can't sell a game I've bought, I'm far, far less likely to take a chance on a game at all.


I gotta take exception to "nowadays", things weren't any better. Remember back in the NES days when the market was so flooded with crappy games that you get faux-companies like Ultra so that Konami could publish games over the annual limit imposed by Nintendo?

As an aside, I generally trust Naughty Dog, Valve, Double Fine and other smaller publishers who don't seem quite so out-of-touch with the average gamer. If you look at the big dogs though that's true, EA, Activision, even my once beloved Capcom.
 
2013-01-04 05:19:37 PM

Antimatter: roc6783: Antimatter: roc6783: Doc Daneeka: Antimatter: ***snip***

No it's not, as they aren't passing any laws, hence, legislating. Pc games cost $60 as well, and lack all the resellability and trading, yet no one complains anymore. All this would be is adopting a PC style games model.

If anything, the cries of lawsuits, etc, to protect consumer rights would be the ones trying to legislate change rather then use the free market.


You're right, legislation was not the correct word to use, market manipulation would be better. Either way, they are trying to remove value from their product without adding anything to replace it in order to increase revenue. That is not innovation.

roc6783: ***snip***
See above. New games cost just as much on the PC. All steam sales are is the same clearance prices you see on many older console and pc games in store. Steam isn't any cheaper for a lot of titles then just walking into a store and buying it, outside the annual sale.

Most of the lower priced indie games are priced about the same as they are on XBLA or PSN for similarly scoped titles.


Maybe Steam is overhyped, and the deals that others have touted are not nearly as good as the ones that I see, but, as this thread clearly illustrates, there is a value that it offers, which Sony does not.

I am not saying Steam is perfect or even superior, just that there is clearly a value that it offers that makes up for the lack of resale or trade, and that Sony is trying to remove the value of resale and trade, while not replacing it with something else of value. Generally, consumers look unfavorably at your product when you remove value from it with no offset.
 
2013-01-04 05:20:36 PM
You guys are cute. For every one person that is upset about this there are hundreds of people who don't give a shiat.
 
2013-01-04 05:43:16 PM

roc6783: Antimatter: roc6783: Antimatter: roc6783: Doc Daneeka: Antimatter: ***snip***

No it's not, as they aren't passing any laws, hence, legislating. Pc games cost $60 as well, and lack all the resellability and trading, yet no one complains anymore. All this would be is adopting a PC style games model.

If anything, the cries of lawsuits, etc, to protect consumer rights would be the ones trying to legislate change rather then use the free market.

You're right, legislation was not the correct word to use, market manipulation would be better. Either way, they are trying to remove value from their product without adding anything to replace it in order to increase revenue. That is not innovation.

roc6783: ***snip***
See above. New games cost just as much on the PC. All steam sales are is the same clearance prices you see on many older console and pc games in store. Steam isn't any cheaper for a lot of titles then just walking into a store and buying it, outside the annual sale.

Most of the lower priced indie games are priced about the same as they are on XBLA or PSN for similarly scoped titles.

Maybe Steam is overhyped, and the deals that others have touted are not nearly as good as the ones that I see, but, as this thread clearly illustrates, there is a value that it offers, which Sony does not.

I am not saying Steam is perfect or even superior, just that there is clearly a value that it offers that makes up for the lack of resale or trade, and that Sony is trying to remove the value of resale and trade, while not replacing it with something else of value. Generally, consumers look unfavorably at your product when you remove value from it with no offset.


It's not that sony doesn't offset value with this, because we know absolutely nothing about any details associated with this drm scheme. On the vita, it was offset, at least somewhat, by lower prices on the digital versions. Who knows if anything would be planned for this. Not that they have to do anything, seeing as Pc publishers never did.

Steam sales and the like are not the normal prices, normal price, at release, is full price. Sales are just that, sales. No different then sales in store on console games. Steams main value was well, it offered a community ala XBL, and had a large game selection.

The tread, if anything, shows the typical knee jerk relation. People rushed to gloat about how it would drive people to PC gaming, without really considered that PC gaming already does this, and worse. Pc gamers just learned to deal with it.

Publishers couldn't care less 'about the resell value of trade' because they have never seen any financial benefit from that, and have been fighting against it for years. Pc publishers utterly destroyed that market. Now those same publishers turn their eye to the console market, and I wouldn't lose a bet that they are the ones pushing sony for it here.

And i say all that as a steam user and PC gamer. We just learned to accept things, because it was ether that or not being able to play.
 
2013-01-04 06:44:59 PM
So some guy makes something up on the Internet and you all assume it's true.

You've noticed of course that anything you buy in the PS store can be used on any PS that you own. And that the Windows Store on Windows 8 allows you to install to 5 devices like most other stores do.

But of course you go with the FUD.
 
2013-01-04 06:52:38 PM

MindStalker: Burr: Egoy3k: Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,

The used car market doesn't rip off the car manufacturers so why is this true for video games?

Yeah, I never heard music or movie people biatching about this (unless I wasn't listening close enough). How is the video game market different from any other market where you can resell something?

Because music and movies generally aren't quite so overpriced. A movie cost millions to make, but copies are sold for $15-$20. A video game cost similar millions to make, and copies are sold for $60 or more. 6 months later, that same movie will lose about 50% of its value and sell for $10 used. That video game will lose 75% or more of its value and go for $10-$15 used.


I hate to break it to you but most games will not go down to $15 after 6-months (more like $30) so it is the same 50% hit.

/Except games that are complete crap like FF 13 which dropped to $15 after 2-weeks
 
2013-01-04 07:40:08 PM

Nightenstaff: Valve stumbled onto the greatest retail model in a long time. Offer a service for free that basically cloud stores all your purchases for you. Then, instead of sticking it to your user base, actually offer them sales and deals on things they might actually like.


And the publishers don't care because suddenly they're getting five sales at 20 dollars compared to the one sale at 50 dollars. Also the steam sale is the only reason why introverson software is still around.
 
2013-01-04 07:42:18 PM

dmars: Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!

The only way to avoid that is if they do what Blizzard has been doing, which is having the games tied to your account. Once the game is tied to your account it doesn't matter what disc I use or if I download the game straight from them, but then you would have to be always online and that is another bag of problems that get consumers irate.


Well, it has its pros and cons. I love not having to deal with discs. I'm horrible at keeping them organized, clean, and ready for use. So being able to just hit up my list of games and download them whenever I need to(really doesn't take much longer than installing off the disc) is worth the hassle of having to be online. Which I am, for the most part, anyways.

pat34us: I hate to break it to you but most games will not go down to $15 after 6-months (more like $30) so it is the same 50% hit.


Steam put Farcry 3 up for $37 and change during the sales this holiday. Game was released like Dec 13 or so, I think?

/steam is the exception, not the rule, but still
 
2013-01-04 07:49:16 PM

Scruffinator: Well, it has its pros and cons. I love not having to deal with discs. I'm horrible at keeping them organized, clean, and ready for use. So being able to just hit up my list of games and download them whenever I need to(really doesn't take much longer than installing off the disc) is worth the hassle of having to be online. Which I am, for the most part, anyways.


Tell me about it, I re-bought Medieval 2 Total War & its expansion for $5 a few days ago on steam just so I wouldn't have bother keeping my discs around.
 
2013-01-04 08:29:42 PM

Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,


You mean like used book stores?  How about the Goodwill store?  Your family's yard sale?

You have the right to resale the things you own.  You are not ripping off the publisher since they were already paid.

I work in the game industry and I'm annoyed by this trend just as much as normal people.  The only people who think this is ok are greedy companies like EA and morons like you.
 
2013-01-04 08:34:42 PM

UNC_Samurai: corronchilejano: the opposite of charity is justice: That'll surely recover from the PS3 fiasco and retake the lead in the console wars.

[i220.photobucket.com image 615x345]

Yeah, the "failure" of the PS3 was pretty much just the first 6-12 months of the system's cycle. There were some major firmware errors and a particularly god-awful set of titles. At least Wii launched with Twilight Princess and the 360 launched with CoD2 and had Oblivion six months later.

Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.


Contrary to popular belief, Linux support was never actually an advertised feature of the ps3 so there was nothing to use over.
 
2013-01-07 02:24:24 PM
Yet another reason to BOYCOTT SONY !
 
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