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(Digital Spy)   Proving they hate their customers, Sony is working on technology that would make it impossible to play used or borrowed games on the PS4   (digitalspy.com) divider line 182
    More: Fail, Sony, ps3 games, debris disk  
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3054 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Jan 2013 at 8:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-04 02:42:22 PM
If this actually happens it would render me unable to buy a PS4 as i cannot usually afford new game prices.

/had to save up for my PS3
/farking economy
 
2013-01-04 02:44:39 PM

UNC_Samurai: corronchilejano: the opposite of charity is justice: That'll surely recover from the PS3 fiasco and retake the lead in the console wars.

[i220.photobucket.com image 615x345]

Yeah, the "failure" of the PS3 was pretty much just the first 6-12 months of the system's cycle. There were some major firmware errors and a particularly god-awful set of titles. At least Wii launched with Twilight Princess and the 360 launched with CoD2 and had Oblivion six months later.

Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.


Those 2500 PS3s are in fact built into a cluster, run Linux (the Air Force never updated the firmware), and operate on their own internal, secure network.
I know this because one of my good friends works at GriffisAFB in that depatment and was the project lead on that operation.
 
2013-01-04 02:46:07 PM

Antimatter: 006deluxe: Grither: Is $60 really that bad, people? You're used to (and apparently ok with) paying $15-$20 for 2hrs of entertainment from a movie at the theatre.... yet, you won't spend $60 on 20-50+hrs??

Movie tickets: $10.00/hr
Video games: $1.20-$3.00/hr

And if the movie sucks, I'm out $15. If the game sucks and I'm unable to sell it, I'm out 4x that with none of the entertainment time.

If only there were some way of reading review, seeing screenshots and gameplay videos, etc before you buy a game! Alas, all games are blind purchases based on box art.


Not everyone is going to visit blogs and whatnot before purchasing the new, hot game. Especially parents purchasing for children. An argument could be made that they should, for content screening sake, but they don't.

I don't have a problem with paying $60 for a game as long as I can get rid of it like any other product if I so desire.
 
2013-01-04 02:46:44 PM

grimlock1972: If this actually happens it would render me unable to buy a PS4 as i cannot usually afford new game prices.

/had to save up for my PS3
/farking economy


Unless I absolutely want a game, I usually wait for the price drop. It's worth waiting a few months to get a $60 for $40 or less. Wait a year and the 'game of the year' edition will get you the game and all DLC for $30 or so.
 
2013-01-04 02:52:00 PM

006deluxe: Antimatter: 006deluxe: Grither: Is $60 really that bad, people? You're used to (and apparently ok with) paying $15-$20 for 2hrs of entertainment from a movie at the theatre.... yet, you won't spend $60 on 20-50+hrs??

Movie tickets: $10.00/hr
Video games: $1.20-$3.00/hr

And if the movie sucks, I'm out $15. If the game sucks and I'm unable to sell it, I'm out 4x that with none of the entertainment time.

If only there were some way of reading review, seeing screenshots and gameplay videos, etc before you buy a game! Alas, all games are blind purchases based on box art.

Not everyone is going to visit blogs and whatnot before purchasing the new, hot game. Especially parents purchasing for children. An argument could be made that they should, for content screening sake, but they don't.

I don't have a problem with paying $60 for a game as long as I can get rid of it like any other product if I so desire.


Not the publishers problem then. If they buy a product sight unseen, with no research, then tough nuggets.

so don't pay $60 for the game. Wait for a price drop, or do your research before buying. your own fault if you don't and get something that sucks, and if you get it as a gift, i've even less sympathy.
 
2013-01-04 03:10:34 PM
More of my money will go to Valve I guess.

/not like I play my PS3 anymore anyways
//except fo Gundam Extreme Vs. with my friends. That game is like crack.
 
2013-01-04 03:13:18 PM

AdamK: who cares? the alarmists remind me of 4 years ago when everybody was afraid to go all digital with PC game purchases on steam


steam has come a long way in the past 4 years (still has ways to go, especially offline more). the big issue here is consoles are taking up the cd-key model, that wasn't popular when it was introduced with pc games either. it's an antiquated new restriction on how consumers can use the product they buy, regardless of whether or not it will really affect them.


Electromax: Who doesn't let you remap buttons nowadays? Only a mild annoyance but I'm not used to these issues as an infrequent PC gamer.


this is because it's a bad port. the game was made for consoles first and the developer/publisher contracted out the pc release to a third party that basically just got the game working on a pc. when the developer of dark souls announced they would port it to pc, they pretty much said they'd do a quick and dirty job of it. a fan made fix is practically required to able to play this game on the pc.

try searching on google or steam forums for key mapping solutions, there's probably a solution to it out there.


FinFangFark: I just don't like the always online concept like Blizzard and Steam, b/c when their systems go down, you can't play.

And imagine another PS Network nightmare...how long was that outtage?


blizzard pretty much only makes multiplayer games, you have to be online to play them.
steam has an offline more and back up options. i've had steam since it was introduced and i can count on one hand the amount of times their servers been down.

the real issue is when your connection goes down and if internet providers get their way, when you hit your bandwidth cap. the idea of a cap is farked because the same providers offer on-demand and voip services that would easily eat up the cap.
 
2013-01-04 03:45:13 PM
Lol, console user problems. Just the other day I went to sell a game I'd bought through steam and...oh wait.

/maybe if you gamed less you'd have more money so you wouldn't have to sell your games to make ends meet, eh?
 
2013-01-04 03:47:49 PM

Antimatter: If only there were some way of reading review, seeing screenshots and gameplay videos, etc before you buy a game! Alas, all games are blind purchases based on box art.


Compare the screenshots that Sony released of Gran Turismo 5 with some of the actual in-game screenshots of standard cars I provided in an earlier post. Sony and Polyphony Digital flat out lied about the content of GT5, even listing features on the box that were not in the game when it shipped.

Also, many games nowadays are flat out bug fests with game breaking problems, those things are never mentioned in reviews, and the gamer is just supposed to accept that shiat and deal with it, because publishers don't want to pay for patches and testing certification.

Also, after the whole Gamespot/Jeff G. incident, we know most reviews are pretty much bullshiat anyway.
 
2013-01-04 03:51:34 PM

MindStalker: That video game will lose 75% or more of its value and go for $10-$15 used.


LOL must be nice to live in America.

/COD:BOII - $120 new, $100 used in NZ
//And they wonder why people pirate
 
2013-01-04 03:59:53 PM

if_i_really_have_to: MindStalker: That video game will lose 75% or more of its value and go for $10-$15 used.

LOL must be nice to live in America.

/COD:BOII - $120 new, $100 used in NZ
//And they wonder why people pirate


Holy shiat! That like $100 American.

Or 5,240 Yen for us and 8,740 Yen for you. WTF?
 
2013-01-04 04:03:17 PM

Glitchwerks: Antimatter: If only there were some way of reading review, seeing screenshots and gameplay videos, etc before you buy a game! Alas, all games are blind purchases based on box art.

Compare the screenshots that Sony released of Gran Turismo 5 with some of the actual in-game screenshots of standard cars I provided in an earlier post. Sony and Polyphony Digital flat out lied about the content of GT5, even listing features on the box that were not in the game when it shipped.

Also, many games nowadays are flat out bug fests with game breaking problems, those things are never mentioned in reviews, and the gamer is just supposed to accept that shiat and deal with it, because publishers don't want to pay for patches and testing certification.

Also, after the whole Gamespot/Jeff G. incident, we know most reviews are pretty much bullshiat anyway.


The screenshots were of premium cars, and they were well advertised that not all cars are premium cars.

As for the glitches? Always been the case, even back to the NES days. some snes games like DKC for example are hilariously broken, ditto for masterpieces like Zelda OoT. at least they can be patched these days, and many are.

As for reviews, don't base everything on a single source. Read several of them, and do other research.
 
2013-01-04 04:14:28 PM
If they're really jealous of the resale market, then they should switch to digital, but also allow the consumer to view their purchase as having more quality by creating a marketplace where people can sell their used games and give a slice back to Sony/Developers instead of Gamestop.

It'll be kind of weird, since it's digital, but...why not? I mean, realistically there's no difference between a opened and unopened game disc.
 
2013-01-04 04:16:38 PM

Antimatter: The screenshots were of premium cars, and they were well advertised that not all cars are premium cars.


They didn't advertise just how bad the standard cars were. In fact, they released a video during E3 and then pulled it when fans started noting the problems.

Antimatter: As for reviews, don't base everything on a single source. Read several of them, and do other research.


A lot of games have exclusive pre-order items that you can't get later. That might not mean a lot for stuff like "golden weapon skins" but when it's something like a BMW 1M, Ferrari 458 Italia, etc. it's a lot more important for petrolheads.

I see what you're saying, but my point is you really don't know if a game is going to be good or not until you're playing it yourself. Especially for stuff like racing simulations, because of things that reviewers just do not talk about, such as aftermarket wheel support.
 
2013-01-04 04:22:25 PM

Glitchwerks: Antimatter: The screenshots were of premium cars, and they were well advertised that not all cars are premium cars.

They didn't advertise just how bad the standard cars were. In fact, they released a video during E3 and then pulled it when fans started noting the problems.

Antimatter: As for reviews, don't base everything on a single source. Read several of them, and do other research.

A lot of games have exclusive pre-order items that you can't get later. That might not mean a lot for stuff like "golden weapon skins" but when it's something like a BMW 1M, Ferrari 458 Italia, etc. it's a lot more important for petrolheads.

I see what you're saying, but my point is you really don't know if a game is going to be good or not until you're playing it yourself. Especially for stuff like racing simulations, because of things that reviewers just do not talk about, such as aftermarket wheel support.


The Gt thing did suck, and honestly, I can't believe PD thought it would be a good idea. Still, they mentioned the difference between premium and non premium cars, but yeah, the standard ones looked horrid by comparison.

Again, not an excuse not to do your research. Most questions can be easily found out and answered pretty quickly, between reviews, and other online posts/discussions. The wheel question could be answered with something as easy as a forum post on their official site.

At any rate, if you do your research, and buy it, and it sucks, oh well really. It's no different then buying a bad PC game. I've been stuck with plenty of those. the key is unless you really trust a developer/series, it's best to just wait and see.
 
2013-01-04 04:22:30 PM
Goodbye X-box/PlayStation..

Hello Ouya!
 
2013-01-04 04:29:52 PM
dtdstudios.com

/Recovering PS3 player
 
2013-01-04 04:47:27 PM

Ed Finnerty: [dtdstudios.com image 541x250]

/Recovering PS3 player


You do realize the PC already does this, and worse, right?
 
2013-01-04 04:49:20 PM

Antimatter: Again, not an excuse not to do your research. Most questions can be easily found out and answered pretty quickly, between reviews, and other online posts/discussions. The wheel question could be answered with something as easy as a forum post on their official site.


It's a lot harder than that. Since the wheels are generally aftermarket, there won't be an official response. User responses can be a complete mixed bag, and finding someone who actually knows what they are talking about can be almost impossible.

Reviews, forums, online discussions, etc. are the same way...finding someone who actually knows what they are talking about can be very difficult, and made more difficult by the fact that there are so many people who think they know what they are talking about, but are compete idiots.

Antimatter: At any rate, if you do your research, and buy it, and it sucks, oh well really. It's no different then buying a bad PC game. I've been stuck with plenty of those. the key is unless you really trust a developer/series, it's best to just wait and see.


At this point nowadays, there are no developers or series you can trust. Which is pretty sad, imho.

I just don't think "buyer beware" is the right answer here, and if I can't sell a game I've bought, I'm far, far less likely to take a chance on a game at all.
 
2013-01-04 05:08:19 PM

Strategeryz0r: Goodbye X-box/PlayStation..

Hello Ouya!


man you need to drop a golden troll like that way upthread. nows its just going to fizzle
 
2013-01-04 05:10:17 PM

Glitchwerks:
At this point nowadays, there are no developers or series you can trust. Which is pretty sad, imho.

I just don't think "buyer beware" is the right answer here, and if I can't sell a game I've bought, I'm far, far less likely to take a chance on a game at all.


I gotta take exception to "nowadays", things weren't any better. Remember back in the NES days when the market was so flooded with crappy games that you get faux-companies like Ultra so that Konami could publish games over the annual limit imposed by Nintendo?

As an aside, I generally trust Naughty Dog, Valve, Double Fine and other smaller publishers who don't seem quite so out-of-touch with the average gamer. If you look at the big dogs though that's true, EA, Activision, even my once beloved Capcom.
 
2013-01-04 05:19:37 PM

Antimatter: roc6783: Antimatter: roc6783: Doc Daneeka: Antimatter: ***snip***

No it's not, as they aren't passing any laws, hence, legislating. Pc games cost $60 as well, and lack all the resellability and trading, yet no one complains anymore. All this would be is adopting a PC style games model.

If anything, the cries of lawsuits, etc, to protect consumer rights would be the ones trying to legislate change rather then use the free market.


You're right, legislation was not the correct word to use, market manipulation would be better. Either way, they are trying to remove value from their product without adding anything to replace it in order to increase revenue. That is not innovation.

roc6783: ***snip***
See above. New games cost just as much on the PC. All steam sales are is the same clearance prices you see on many older console and pc games in store. Steam isn't any cheaper for a lot of titles then just walking into a store and buying it, outside the annual sale.

Most of the lower priced indie games are priced about the same as they are on XBLA or PSN for similarly scoped titles.


Maybe Steam is overhyped, and the deals that others have touted are not nearly as good as the ones that I see, but, as this thread clearly illustrates, there is a value that it offers, which Sony does not.

I am not saying Steam is perfect or even superior, just that there is clearly a value that it offers that makes up for the lack of resale or trade, and that Sony is trying to remove the value of resale and trade, while not replacing it with something else of value. Generally, consumers look unfavorably at your product when you remove value from it with no offset.
 
2013-01-04 05:20:36 PM
You guys are cute. For every one person that is upset about this there are hundreds of people who don't give a shiat.
 
2013-01-04 05:43:16 PM

roc6783: Antimatter: roc6783: Antimatter: roc6783: Doc Daneeka: Antimatter: ***snip***

No it's not, as they aren't passing any laws, hence, legislating. Pc games cost $60 as well, and lack all the resellability and trading, yet no one complains anymore. All this would be is adopting a PC style games model.

If anything, the cries of lawsuits, etc, to protect consumer rights would be the ones trying to legislate change rather then use the free market.

You're right, legislation was not the correct word to use, market manipulation would be better. Either way, they are trying to remove value from their product without adding anything to replace it in order to increase revenue. That is not innovation.

roc6783: ***snip***
See above. New games cost just as much on the PC. All steam sales are is the same clearance prices you see on many older console and pc games in store. Steam isn't any cheaper for a lot of titles then just walking into a store and buying it, outside the annual sale.

Most of the lower priced indie games are priced about the same as they are on XBLA or PSN for similarly scoped titles.

Maybe Steam is overhyped, and the deals that others have touted are not nearly as good as the ones that I see, but, as this thread clearly illustrates, there is a value that it offers, which Sony does not.

I am not saying Steam is perfect or even superior, just that there is clearly a value that it offers that makes up for the lack of resale or trade, and that Sony is trying to remove the value of resale and trade, while not replacing it with something else of value. Generally, consumers look unfavorably at your product when you remove value from it with no offset.


It's not that sony doesn't offset value with this, because we know absolutely nothing about any details associated with this drm scheme. On the vita, it was offset, at least somewhat, by lower prices on the digital versions. Who knows if anything would be planned for this. Not that they have to do anything, seeing as Pc publishers never did.

Steam sales and the like are not the normal prices, normal price, at release, is full price. Sales are just that, sales. No different then sales in store on console games. Steams main value was well, it offered a community ala XBL, and had a large game selection.

The tread, if anything, shows the typical knee jerk relation. People rushed to gloat about how it would drive people to PC gaming, without really considered that PC gaming already does this, and worse. Pc gamers just learned to deal with it.

Publishers couldn't care less 'about the resell value of trade' because they have never seen any financial benefit from that, and have been fighting against it for years. Pc publishers utterly destroyed that market. Now those same publishers turn their eye to the console market, and I wouldn't lose a bet that they are the ones pushing sony for it here.

And i say all that as a steam user and PC gamer. We just learned to accept things, because it was ether that or not being able to play.
 
2013-01-04 06:44:59 PM
So some guy makes something up on the Internet and you all assume it's true.

You've noticed of course that anything you buy in the PS store can be used on any PS that you own. And that the Windows Store on Windows 8 allows you to install to 5 devices like most other stores do.

But of course you go with the FUD.
 
2013-01-04 06:52:38 PM

MindStalker: Burr: Egoy3k: Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,

The used car market doesn't rip off the car manufacturers so why is this true for video games?

Yeah, I never heard music or movie people biatching about this (unless I wasn't listening close enough). How is the video game market different from any other market where you can resell something?

Because music and movies generally aren't quite so overpriced. A movie cost millions to make, but copies are sold for $15-$20. A video game cost similar millions to make, and copies are sold for $60 or more. 6 months later, that same movie will lose about 50% of its value and sell for $10 used. That video game will lose 75% or more of its value and go for $10-$15 used.


I hate to break it to you but most games will not go down to $15 after 6-months (more like $30) so it is the same 50% hit.

/Except games that are complete crap like FF 13 which dropped to $15 after 2-weeks
 
2013-01-04 07:40:08 PM

Nightenstaff: Valve stumbled onto the greatest retail model in a long time. Offer a service for free that basically cloud stores all your purchases for you. Then, instead of sticking it to your user base, actually offer them sales and deals on things they might actually like.


And the publishers don't care because suddenly they're getting five sales at 20 dollars compared to the one sale at 50 dollars. Also the steam sale is the only reason why introverson software is still around.
 
2013-01-04 07:42:18 PM

dmars: Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!

The only way to avoid that is if they do what Blizzard has been doing, which is having the games tied to your account. Once the game is tied to your account it doesn't matter what disc I use or if I download the game straight from them, but then you would have to be always online and that is another bag of problems that get consumers irate.


Well, it has its pros and cons. I love not having to deal with discs. I'm horrible at keeping them organized, clean, and ready for use. So being able to just hit up my list of games and download them whenever I need to(really doesn't take much longer than installing off the disc) is worth the hassle of having to be online. Which I am, for the most part, anyways.

pat34us: I hate to break it to you but most games will not go down to $15 after 6-months (more like $30) so it is the same 50% hit.


Steam put Farcry 3 up for $37 and change during the sales this holiday. Game was released like Dec 13 or so, I think?

/steam is the exception, not the rule, but still
 
2013-01-04 07:49:16 PM

Scruffinator: Well, it has its pros and cons. I love not having to deal with discs. I'm horrible at keeping them organized, clean, and ready for use. So being able to just hit up my list of games and download them whenever I need to(really doesn't take much longer than installing off the disc) is worth the hassle of having to be online. Which I am, for the most part, anyways.


Tell me about it, I re-bought Medieval 2 Total War & its expansion for $5 a few days ago on steam just so I wouldn't have bother keeping my discs around.
 
2013-01-04 08:29:42 PM

Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,


You mean like used book stores?  How about the Goodwill store?  Your family's yard sale?

You have the right to resale the things you own.  You are not ripping off the publisher since they were already paid.

I work in the game industry and I'm annoyed by this trend just as much as normal people.  The only people who think this is ok are greedy companies like EA and morons like you.
 
2013-01-04 08:34:42 PM

UNC_Samurai: corronchilejano: the opposite of charity is justice: That'll surely recover from the PS3 fiasco and retake the lead in the console wars.

[i220.photobucket.com image 615x345]

Yeah, the "failure" of the PS3 was pretty much just the first 6-12 months of the system's cycle. There were some major firmware errors and a particularly god-awful set of titles. At least Wii launched with Twilight Princess and the 360 launched with CoD2 and had Oblivion six months later.

Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.


Contrary to popular belief, Linux support was never actually an advertised feature of the ps3 so there was nothing to use over.
 
2013-01-07 02:24:24 PM
Yet another reason to BOYCOTT SONY !
 
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