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(Digital Spy)   Proving they hate their customers, Sony is working on technology that would make it impossible to play used or borrowed games on the PS4   (digitalspy.com) divider line 182
    More: Fail, Sony, ps3 games, debris disk  
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3056 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Jan 2013 at 8:49 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-04 09:55:09 AM
Why?

More and more people are buying digitally anyway. Taking this step isn't really necessary. Provide incentives for your customer to go digital (cheaper prices for starters) and those that can will do so willingly taking care of the issue without any perceived ill will.

I can't remember the last time I purchased a PC game on disk. I can't remember the last time I used my PC's optical drive...

The bonus of digital content is that in many cases it is tied to your account (Steam, XBox) and you can just download it again.
 
2013-01-04 09:55:46 AM

capnmonkey: I think a better strategy is to pair DLC/in game items/bonuses with new copies of the game, and once you redeem the code and link it to your account its done.

That would tempt some people to pay $50 for the new version which comes with horse armor DLC or whatever, rather than paying shiatty gamestop $35 for a used copy.


That seems the most logical way to do it. I have the XL edition of GT5 which came with a code to get all the DLC available at the time of XL's release and a 20 dollar credit for additional DLC later. So I bought the XL edition new instead of a used copy of GT.

I think this is shortsighted in that a lot of sales still occur from a friend bringing over a disk. The only reason I have Just Cause is a friend lent me the disc for a weekend when he'd be out of town. Had that not happened, I'd never have bought my own copy.
 
2013-01-04 09:58:42 AM

MindStalker: Burr: Egoy3k: Neverhood9: Considering the used game market rips off the devs/publisher...I'm okay with this. But I know I'm in the minority,

The used car market doesn't rip off the car manufacturers so why is this true for video games?

Yeah, I never heard music or movie people biatching about this (unless I wasn't listening close enough). How is the video game market different from any other market where you can resell something?

Because music and movies generally aren't quite so overpriced. A movie cost millions to make, but copies are sold for $15-$20. A video game cost similar millions to make, and copies are sold for $60 or more. 6 months later, that same movie will lose about 50% of its value and sell for $10 used. That video game will lose 75% or more of its value and go for $10-$15 used.


By the time you get to buy a music or movie on disc, it's already been released to other audiences. For music, you have the airwaves licenses for radio play, license to use in other media (movies, TV, etc), the concerts (with associated high ticket prices, bookign fees, etc) and band merchandise/endorsements, etc.

Movies you of course have the cineplex release first, which is where most of the money is made. Later you have multiple home releases, special editions, collectors editions, anniversary editions, rental license, TV syndacation rights, etc.
 
zez
2013-01-04 09:58:49 AM
I guess I'll never get one of those consoles then. My library loans out Wii and xbox360 games so that's where we get all ours.

/kids are currently switching between the 3 lego games they have checked out
 
2013-01-04 09:58:51 AM

corronchilejano: the opposite of charity is justice: That'll surely recover from the PS3 fiasco and retake the lead in the console wars.

[i220.photobucket.com image 615x345]


Yeah, the "failure" of the PS3 was pretty much just the first 6-12 months of the system's cycle. There were some major firmware errors and a particularly god-awful set of titles. At least Wii launched with Twilight Princess and the 360 launched with CoD2 and had Oblivion six months later.

Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.
 
2013-01-04 10:01:53 AM

FinFangFark: Burr: I used to buy about one new game a month back in day, starting in the early 90's. Around 2000 that number started dropping. Now I either buy used (about 6-12 months after it comes out) and maybe 1 new game a year. It might be that I have changed somewhat, but it just seems like such a hassle anymore, and I grew up with making boot disks, CONFIG.SYS and HIMEM.

/has a library of at least 200 games over about 5 different systems, most of them are PC.
//"collector"

You know Nintendo won't go this route, and I think Microsoft was just throwing it out there to see if would stick.  But, with that said, if both companies DID do this, you can look at PC gaming to take a huge jump again, especially if people start throwing emulators out there that can crack these discs.

And discs?  Really?  Do flash drives have a lower life expectancy vs discs still?


I'm on my 4th hard drive in a decade, in that time I've owned maybe 15-20 flash drives. Meanwhile my Weezer Blue Album and Quake II PS disc have survived endless replay and still work to this day.
Shirt answer: Yes.
 
2013-01-04 10:01:54 AM

UNC_Samurai: Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.


I thought that they succeeded in that all the ones they bought where never updated so that everything continued as planned. But they couldn't buy new ones which no longer shipped with Linux possibilities, killing further research.
 
2013-01-04 10:02:05 AM

corronchilejano: Antimatter: Most licensed PC software, for example is just as expensive if not more so then any console game.

Someone doesn't use Steam.


I was referring to the ones that are major license stuff, ie it's very clear you don't own it, like photoshop, autocad, windows, etc.

Steam is quite well used at my house, although, Steam doesn't allow for used games, and is pretty restrictive, seeing as everything is tied to one steam account and cannot be activated on others.
 
2013-01-04 10:03:28 AM

UNC_Samurai: corronchilejano: the opposite of charity is justice: That'll surely recover from the PS3 fiasco and retake the lead in the console wars.

[i220.photobucket.com image 615x345]

Yeah, the "failure" of the PS3 was pretty much just the first 6-12 months of the system's cycle. There were some major firmware errors and a particularly god-awful set of titles. At least Wii launched with Twilight Princess and the 360 launched with CoD2 and had Oblivion six months later.

Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.


Why? They didn't remotely disable that cluster, and the airforce never had a reason to update the firmware as they don't play games on it.
 
2013-01-04 10:03:44 AM

MindStalker: UNC_Samurai: Now, if you're talking about issues beyond the scope of the end consumer, I really, really wish the Department of Defense had sued Sony over removing the ability to install Linux on the PS3. The taxpayers footed the bill for about 2500 PS3s that the Air Force was going to build into a cluster.

I thought that they succeeded in that all the ones they bought where never updated so that everything continued as planned. But they couldn't buy new ones which no longer shipped with Linux possibilities, killing further research.


To my knowledge they were able to use the first 300 they bought, but that they ended up doing something else with the other 2200.
 
2013-01-04 10:05:03 AM

GlobalStrategic MapleSyrup Reserve: FinFangFark: Burr: *snip*

Shirt answer: Yes.


skreened.com
Okie silly-dilly dokie oh, I'm an idiot.
 
2013-01-04 10:11:51 AM

KellyX: dmars: Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!

The only way to avoid that is if they do what Blizzard has been doing, which is having the games tied to your account. Once the game is tied to your account it doesn't matter what disc I use or if I download the game straight from them, but then you would have to be always online and that is another bag of problems that get consumers irate.

Read an article last night saying the way the cable companies are going, they are trying to force tiered/capped bandwidth for high speed internet connections...

If they do start pushing that, I can imagine how that will hurt a lot of commercial sectors, not just online gaming, but all these cloud services, and small businesses that use the internet to do a lot of their business.


Bye, bye, Netflix.
 
2013-01-04 10:12:35 AM

starlost: a used 2008 toyota tacoma doesn't have the same quality and longevity as a new 2013 toyota tacoma and that is why it is cheaper. i'm waiting for the day a car always works and never wears out unless it gets a scratch in the paint and then will never work again.
that disc either works or it doesn't.
if a disc aged like a car or like how just about anything else it would be a better comparison. maybe they should start doing the limited plays system again. didn't best buy have a movie player years ago that let you play a disc a few times? it bombed.


A used book is just as readable and usable as a new one, and doesn't lose value through wear and tear the way a car does. And yet publishers have never attacked the legitimacy of used bookstores.

The video game publishers are full of shiat. They are greedy little piggies that think they are somehow different than any other maker of tangible goods. The right of first sale is a universally acknowledged right of consumers. You buy a book, a CD, a magazine, a DVD, a Blu-Ray, a car, a bicycle, or anything else, and you are perfectly within your rights to lend or resell that object without owing another dime to the manufacturer. Once you pay the purchase price, it is yours to do with as you please. The video game industry is the only industry that consistently attacks this principle, this fundamental right of consumers. People shouldn't stand for it. Being able to buy and sell used goods, things that you own, should be a right that you should not relinquish easily.
 
2013-01-04 10:14:09 AM
You know, I would be OK with this if they tied your console ID to a login in case you have to buy a new system

And if they figure out the amount of money they lose to used game sales and reduce the new one-owner game prices to account for it.

But they won't, they will still try to charge $60 a game, so fark 'em.
 
2013-01-04 10:14:47 AM

KellyX: dmars: Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!

The only way to avoid that is if they do what Blizzard has been doing, which is having the games tied to your account. Once the game is tied to your account it doesn't matter what disc I use or if I download the game straight from them, but then you would have to be always online and that is another bag of problems that get consumers irate.

Read an article last night saying the way the cable companies are going, they are trying to force tiered/capped bandwidth for high speed internet connections...

If they do start pushing that, I can imagine how that will hurt a lot of commercial sectors, not just online gaming, but all these cloud services, and small businesses that use the internet to do a lot of their business.


They already paid the NC state legislature to make municipal broadband impossible to implement: Link
 
2013-01-04 10:17:19 AM

Faps_in_the_kitchen: Gran Turismo 5


Quite possibly the worst racing game ever made. Absolutely pathetic that they ported over 3/4ths of the game from the PS2's GT4 and hardly upscaled anything. And that it took them 6 years to do it.

www.gamesaktuell.de

www.allgamernews.com

GT's time is done. Project C.A.R.S. is going to blow it out of the water next year.
 
2013-01-04 10:24:43 AM

Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!


If it actually happens like this, it would appear that the 360 might be the last gaming system I ever purchase.
 
2013-01-04 10:34:06 AM
Guess who's not going to upgrade from his PS3 if this goes through?

Multiply by tens of millions of people, and this could be the decision that sinks Sony. Too bad, too, 'cuz over the years I liked my:

Walkman
Home video camera
DVD player
TV
Surround sound
PS2
PS3

I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.
 
2013-01-04 10:39:54 AM

Glitchwerks: Quite possibly the worst racing game ever made. Absolutely pathetic that they ported over 3/4ths of the game from the PS2's GT4 and hardly upscaled anything. And that it took them 6 years to do it.


Well they needed to stick in six thousand farking versions of the Honda Civic after all. So they could brag about how many cars they had. Personally I would have been happy with a couple hundred perfectly rendered cars and scratch the other 700 out of the game (or give me an option of: "Hey we have some older, lower quality models, would you like me to load them? Warning: They're still kinda fugly".

GT5's biggest issue I think was failing to understand how all they needed to release was a solid core of cars and tracks and they could DLC out the rest in expansion packs later.

/still like the game, but it could have been better
 
2013-01-04 10:41:15 AM

Doc Daneeka: Being able to buy and sell used goods, things that you own, should be a right that you should not relinquish easily.


The argument now is that you don't "own" anything, you "lease" it. It's insultingly anti-consumer, but it's what people have come to accept as long as they can get their fix of the latest "widget-X". People have become so obsessed with their desire to consume that they no longer even see the abuse being thrown on them or will gladly rationalize it away. The only way to fight it would be to deny the pushers their income, but people won't because they are addicts. Hopeless, pathetic, addicts.
 
2013-01-04 10:42:42 AM
I don't get it, if they really wanted to do this then why not just lock the box down to not include any sort of external drive. Give the box a hard drive and you get x amount of storage on a cloud.

Sell rights to play the game on any compatible device you are logged into, log into your PS4 play the game, log into your friends PS4 you can play the game. That way you can only buy and download games from their store and play them only from the account you own. Skip the whole physical media all together.

Finally build an emulator for PS 1, 2, & 3 games on the PS 4 and give free licenses for Sony games that play on those consoles to anyone who can send in a disk of the games you want a license for. Allow other publishers to do the same.
 
2013-01-04 10:47:24 AM

Doc Daneeka: starlost: a used 2008 toyota tacoma doesn't have the same quality and longevity as a new 2013 toyota tacoma and that is why it is cheaper. i'm waiting for the day a car always works and never wears out unless it gets a scratch in the paint and then will never work again.
that disc either works or it doesn't.
if a disc aged like a car or like how just about anything else it would be a better comparison. maybe they should start doing the limited plays system again. didn't best buy have a movie player years ago that let you play a disc a few times? it bombed.

A used book is just as readable and usable as a new one, and doesn't lose value through wear and tear the way a car does. And yet publishers have never attacked the legitimacy of used bookstores.

The video game publishers are full of shiat. They are greedy little piggies that think they are somehow different than any other maker of tangible goods. The right of first sale is a universally acknowledged right of consumers. You buy a book, a CD, a magazine, a DVD, a Blu-Ray, a car, a bicycle, or anything else, and you are perfectly within your rights to lend or resell that object without owing another dime to the manufacturer. Once you pay the purchase price, it is yours to do with as you please. The video game industry is the only industry that consistently attacks this principle, this fundamental right of consumers. People shouldn't stand for it. Being able to buy and sell used goods, things that you own, should be a right that you should not relinquish easily.


Yeah, but Americans are stupid. Give them $5 off the retail price and they will gladly sign away their rights.
 
2013-01-04 10:58:10 AM

ha-ha-guy: Glitchwerks: Quite possibly the worst racing game ever made. Absolutely pathetic that they ported over 3/4ths of the game from the PS2's GT4 and hardly upscaled anything. And that it took them 6 years to do it.

Well they needed to stick in six thousand farking versions of the Honda Civic after all. So they could brag about how many cars they had. Personally I would have been happy with a couple hundred perfectly rendered cars and scratch the other 700 out of the game (or give me an option of: "Hey we have some older, lower quality models, would you like me to load them? Warning: They're still kinda fugly".

GT5's biggest issue I think was failing to understand how all they needed to release was a solid core of cars and tracks and they could DLC out the rest in expansion packs later.

/still like the game, but it could have been better


I have to agree here. GT5, while selling amazingly, and doing some things very well, really needs to rethink their car selection. They need to scrap all models made before Gt5, and rebuild a selected number in HD. You can DLC out the rest, as you build them.
 
2013-01-04 11:00:01 AM

fickenchucker: I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.


What will you buy then?  Because every console manufacture is doing this.
 
2013-01-04 11:01:50 AM

gingerjet: fickenchucker: I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.

What will you buy then?  Because every console manufacture is doing this.


Nintendo isn't. And further, they have stated that they're not going to do anything to try to obstruct the secondhand games market.
 
2013-01-04 11:03:11 AM
All I care about is that they make a platform that has a lot of fault tolerance. We are already seeing game companies who only make xbox games because support for PS3 is a pain for them. I buy my games new and only end up playing half of them anyway. As long as they don't screw that up, I am fine. Just give me a stable platform!
 
2013-01-04 11:03:24 AM
You'd think these companies would learn... You spend all these R&D dollars to DRM your product into an unusable state only to have the hackers crack your garbage a month later. Guess who comes out looking like heroes and guess who looks like asshats?

Valve stumbled onto the greatest retail model in a long time. Offer a service for free that basically cloud stores all your purchases for you. Then, instead of sticking it to your user base, actually offer them sales and deals on things they might actually like.
 
2013-01-04 11:03:56 AM

gingerjet: fickenchucker: I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.

What will you buy then?  Because every console manufacture is doing this.


I love how the "nothing" option doesn't even cross some people's minds.
 
2013-01-04 11:05:33 AM

Doc Daneeka: starlost: a used 2008 toyota tacoma doesn't have the same quality and longevity as a new 2013 toyota tacoma and that is why it is cheaper. i'm waiting for the day a car always works and never wears out unless it gets a scratch in the paint and then will never work again.
that disc either works or it doesn't.
if a disc aged like a car or like how just about anything else it would be a better comparison. maybe they should start doing the limited plays system again. didn't best buy have a movie player years ago that let you play a disc a few times? it bombed.

A used book is just as readable and usable as a new one, and doesn't lose value through wear and tear the way a car does. And yet publishers have never attacked the legitimacy of used bookstores.

The video game publishers are full of shiat. They are greedy little piggies that think they are somehow different than any other maker of tangible goods. The right of first sale is a universally acknowledged right of consumers. You buy a book, a CD, a magazine, a DVD, a Blu-Ray, a car, a bicycle, or anything else, and you are perfectly within your rights to lend or resell that object without owing another dime to the manufacturer. Once you pay the purchase price, it is yours to do with as you please. The video game industry is the only industry that consistently attacks this principle, this fundamental right of consumers. People shouldn't stand for it. Being able to buy and sell used goods, things that you own, should be a right that you should not relinquish easily.


Books. and movies, as well as music have multiple paths to revenue, and don't depend solely on first sales. Cars depreciate in value rapidly, as do most bikes.

As game budgets rise, and game prices don't rise a ton to compensate, they are getting squeezed more and more for revenue to make ends meet. Hence the rise of DLC, and special/collectors editions of games. Still, used games are a favorite target of major publishers on the console side.

You walk into a barnes and noble, and you don't see racks of used books for sale. Ditto for walking into a standalone video store. but nearly every store that sells games has racks of used ones these days. That just makes the publishers get even more testy about the whole thing.
 
2013-01-04 11:07:09 AM
1. They've been moving to this for a long time, exclusive downloadable content codes that come in the game when it ships is pretty irritating.

2. That's really going to suck when the first run of PS4s all brick and everyone is out not only the console but all the games they bought.
 
2013-01-04 11:07:54 AM
This will come regardless but not with this next generation. Eventually the disc drive will go away and the only way to get a game will be to download it from their online store.
 
2013-01-04 11:08:48 AM
Meanwhile, I can still play decades-old games on my PC. Heck, thanks to emulators, I can play decades-old games for other machines on my PC.
 
2013-01-04 11:09:58 AM

smimmy: This will come regardless but not with this next generation. Eventually the disc drive will go away and the only way to get a game will be to download it from their online store.


Yep. Confluence of cloud and console. Game consoles will achieve that fabled "pay-per-play" model they've been dying to put into place.
 
2013-01-04 11:10:12 AM

Doc Daneeka: gingerjet: fickenchucker: I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.

What will you buy then?  Because every console manufacture is doing this.

Nintendo isn't. And further, they have stated that they're not going to do anything to try to obstruct the secondhand games market.


Nintendo could care less what 3rd party publishers want, because most people buy nintendo systems for nintendo first party games, which often remain high priced even years after release. Furthermore, they are masters at multi-bites-at-the-apple, selling roms of old games and porting over and over to multiple platforms, for little cost but to great sales. Toss in all their external licensing for tv shows, and merchandise, and they have no shortage of sources of revanue.
 
2013-01-04 11:13:15 AM

Antimatter: You walk into a barnes and noble, and you don't see racks of used books for sale. Ditto for walking into a standalone video store. but nearly every store that sells games has racks of used ones these days. That just makes the publishers get even more testy about the whole thing.


A couple points:

1) If new game sales are being undercut by used sales because new games cost so much money, maybe they need to reconsider their price point for new games. They'd probably sell a hell of a lot more copies (and people would be less inclined to buy and sell used) if games cost less than $60 a pop. Just because the game cost millions to produce doesn't mean the retail price has to be so high. A blockbuster movie can cost hundreds of millions to produce, yet you can buy a movie ticket for ~$10 and purchase the DVD for under $20.

2) I doubt used sales really undercut new sales. In fact, I suspect the reverse is true, and that used sales actually spur new sales. All those retailers who deal in used games usually have some sort of trade-in program - i.e. you can trade in your used games for credit towards buying new games. Why do many people sell their used games? So that they can use that money to buy new games. In this way, the used market actually stimulates the sales of used games that many people would not otherwise be able to afford.

3) None of this is the consumer's problem anyway. Consumers shouldn't have to abdicate their rights just because video game developers and publishers can't figure out a working business model.
 
2013-01-04 11:13:26 AM

FormlessOne: Meanwhile, I can still play decades-old games on my PC. Heck, thanks to emulators, I can play decades-old games for other machines on my PC.


There is no used PC game market though, for any game made after the rise of the CD key in the late 90's. Modern games, with stuff like steam activation, are basically non existent outside of first sales.
 
2013-01-04 11:17:18 AM

Antimatter: Steam doesn't allow for used games, and is pretty restrictive, seeing as everything is tied to one steam account and cannot be activated on others.


True, but the prices are low enough to not even need a 2nd hand game, unlike, for example, Origin, which asks for the same price with or without a physical medium (absurd).
 
2013-01-04 11:18:20 AM

Antimatter: ha-ha-guy: Glitchwerks: Quite possibly the worst racing game ever made. Absolutely pathetic that they ported over 3/4ths of the game from the PS2's GT4 and hardly upscaled anything. And that it took them 6 years to do it.

Well they needed to stick in six thousand farking versions of the Honda Civic after all. So they could brag about how many cars they had. Personally I would have been happy with a couple hundred perfectly rendered cars and scratch the other 700 out of the game (or give me an option of: "Hey we have some older, lower quality models, would you like me to load them? Warning: They're still kinda fugly".

GT5's biggest issue I think was failing to understand how all they needed to release was a solid core of cars and tracks and they could DLC out the rest in expansion packs later.

/still like the game, but it could have been better

I have to agree here. GT5, while selling amazingly, and doing some things very well, really needs to rethink their car selection. They need to scrap all models made before Gt5, and rebuild a selected number in HD. You can DLC out the rest, as you build them.


The biggest problem, in my opinion, is that the GT series simply isn't paying attention to to their competitors. Forza has turned tuning, customization, and online competition into an art. Shift 2, while hampered by flawed physics and bad wheel support, has the single best selection of tracks and the best career modes in a racing game to date.

Both the NFS and Forza series also have tons of multiplayer options, ranging from the ability to share tunes to ghosts. Forza allows people to freely swap cars.

GT has next to none of that interaction. If Polyphony Digital actually paid attention to other games, that would go a long way. Instead they make this insular, broken game, hobbled by bad game mechanics such as a limited paint chip system. They pretty much ruined the game when they locked out the best cars from being traded.

I won't even go into how short, unrewarding, boring, and monotonous the single player career option is in GT5. 9 hours on Tsukuba? Fark that.
 
2013-01-04 11:19:56 AM
Antimatter: You walk into a barnes and noble, and you don't see racks of used books for sale. Ditto for walking into a standalone video store. but nearly every store that sells games has racks of used ones these days. That just makes the publishers get even more testy about the whole thing..

notsureifserious,jpg

There's a B&N near my house that has a rather large used section. I know that it's not the only one. Hell, they've got used book buying and selling mechanism on their website!

Also, video stores have sold used copies (mostly of their stock) since the VHS days to keep their stock going. Last time I was actually in a video store, they were still doing this with used movies and games.

/Thinking you might be trolling here.
 
2013-01-04 11:20:17 AM
who cares? the alarmists remind me of 4 years ago when everybody was afraid to go all digital with PC game purchases on steam even tho physical discs were meaningless already because of activation codes... now nobody bats an eyelash at buying $60 games on steam, even casuals are fine with downloading games onto their smartphones or tablets, and more people than ever are downloading copies of microsoft office or other applications on windows or mac os

that "no-resale" future is already here, being spearheaded by the rest of the software industry... consoles aren't leaders anymore in at-home entertainment, so they adapt or die to preserve what revenue they still have
 
2013-01-04 11:20:20 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about this actually being implemented. It would surely and swiftly kill the PS4.

That said, the entertainment industry in general is chock full o' uber-greedy pricks who spend all of their waking hours figuring out fun new ways to fark every last penny from their customers. It's not about "piracy" so much as it's about "daddy needs a 4th Olympic-sized swimming pool full of Dom Perignon"
 
2013-01-04 11:23:26 AM

Doc Daneeka: Antimatter: You walk into a barnes and noble, and you don't see racks of used books for sale. Ditto for walking into a standalone video store. but nearly every store that sells games has racks of used ones these days. That just makes the publishers get even more testy about the whole thing.

A couple points:

1) If new game sales are being undercut by used sales because new games cost so much money, maybe they need to reconsider their price point for new games. They'd probably sell a hell of a lot more copies (and people would be less inclined to buy and sell used) if games cost less than $60 a pop. Just because the game cost millions to produce doesn't mean the retail price has to be so high. A blockbuster movie can cost hundreds of millions to produce, yet you can buy a movie ticket for ~$10 and purchase the DVD for under $20.

2) I doubt used sales really undercut new sales. In fact, I suspect the reverse is true, and that used sales actually spur new sales. All those retailers who deal in used games usually have some sort of trade-in program - i.e. you can trade in your used games for credit towards buying new games. Why do many people sell their used games? So that they can use that money to buy new games. In this way, the used market actually stimulates the sales of used games that many people would not otherwise be able to afford.

3) None of this is the consumer's problem anyway. Consumers shouldn't have to abdicate their rights just because video game developers and publishers can't figure out a working business model.


1. Games are actually quite cheaper now then in the past. an SNES game could cost you what, up to $70-80 in early 90's dollars, which woudl be 90-$100 today. Per game. And those were made by smaller teams for much less. Modern games retail for $60 in 2013 dollars, which would be what, $45 or so in 90's? Toss in much larger teams, and dramatically higher budgets, and you see the problem. Games also have a much smaller marketbase of user then movies. the market for a movie is anyone who can possibly walk into a cineplex. This is a few billion people. The market for games? Only the people who own the platform, a max a few tens of millions. Sell a million copies of a game and you are a hit. Sell a million tickets for a movie and you're a bust.

2. The problem is the gamestops of the world promote used games over new ones whenever possible, often giving incentives to trade in old, in demand games for newer, used games. Often, their selection of sealed new games is rather small by comparison. Not to mention, the new title you trade in for may not even be a full priced game anymore.

3. Your right, but it's also not the publishers problem if you can't resell it, as they don't make any money off the resell anyways. You can argue you have the right to sell it, and they can argue they have the right to promote new sales over used.
 
2013-01-04 11:28:48 AM

Stormgren: Antimatter: You walk into a barnes and noble, and you don't see racks of used books for sale. Ditto for walking into a standalone video store. but nearly every store that sells games has racks of used ones these days. That just makes the publishers get even more testy about the whole thing..

notsureifserious,jpg

There's a B&N near my house that has a rather large used section. I know that it's not the only one. Hell, they've got used book buying and selling mechanism on their website!

Also, video stores have sold used copies (mostly of their stock) since the VHS days to keep their stock going. Last time I was actually in a video store, they were still doing this with used movies and games.

/Thinking you might be trolling here.


Really? I guessed I just never really noticed as I tend to only buy new releases, since most of what I buy physically is manga. More often then note, I like those to be mint.

Video stores tend to resell their old rental copies, which cost more per disc originally, iirc. It's part of the nifty license agreement you need to rent movies, that games, iirc, don't have.
 
2013-01-04 11:32:48 AM

corronchilejano: Antimatter: Steam doesn't allow for used games, and is pretty restrictive, seeing as everything is tied to one steam account and cannot be activated on others.

True, but the prices are low enough to not even need a 2nd hand game, unlike, for example, Origin, which asks for the same price with or without a physical medium (absurd).


And that, i think, is why the PC gamers ignore their lose of resell ability. If Sony, or MS, wanted to do this sort of thing, they would have to have the same style of rapid price drops and sales. I don't think the brick and mortars would agree to sell physical copies if they did that though. In Pc gaming, physical copies are quite rare to see, except for very high profile titles, or pre-ordered copies, or crapware budget games. Digita just dominates thanks to the likes of steam.
 
2013-01-04 11:34:01 AM

dmars: Kredal: Best part about this?  When your PS4 or XBox 720 dies (RROD, power supply fries, etc) and you go to replace it, none of your games will work.  Tada!

The only way to avoid that is if they do what Blizzard has been doing, which is having the games tied to your account. Once the game is tied to your account it doesn't matter what disc I use or if I download the game straight from them, but then you would have to be always online and that is another bag of problems that get consumers irate.


I would like the new XBOX to do this. I've seen one friend buy multiple copies of Battlefield 3 because they had issues taking the disc out of the package and cracking it in the middle. Another friend bumped his XBOX in the middle of a Black Ops session and the disc came loose in the drive and the machine did a DJ Scratchy session on it. The discs are slow, prone to scratches, can be lost... they just need to go.
 
2013-01-04 11:34:20 AM
This is what they do. Create a great piece of hardware and then intentionally cripple it.

Sony always does this. Always.
 
2013-01-04 11:36:04 AM

StrangeQ: gingerjet: fickenchucker: I consider myself a decent customer to the brand, so FU Sony if you try to limit my use of used/borrowed games. My kids and I almost never go online, so yeah, we're "liters", but we spend money on consoles and games, too.

What will you buy then?  Because every console manufacture is doing this.

I love how the "nothing" option doesn't even cross some people's minds.


You beat me to it. My kids are in high school--the only reason we have the games is so they have fun with each other and their friends, and occasionally take pity on me & let their old man play. I don't play them on my own, and the window if importance to us is closing. They'll be off driving and figuring out how to date girls soon.

If the PS4 is as easy to use for me as the PS3, I might upgrade to keep them happy. If it's a difficult-to-use money grab, fark it. The kids should be out doing things in the real world anyway.
 
2013-01-04 11:47:17 AM
i find it odd that steam is being held up as the antithesis of this model. Doesn't steam already do this? i can't re-sell any game i buy on steam or loan it out without giving another person direct access to my account. There's no such thing as a used game market on steam. I like steam because of the convenience and access to older titles, but i don't get why valve is lauded for something and sony is crucified for even considering doing the same thing?
 
2013-01-04 11:49:30 AM

starlost: a used 2008 toyota tacoma doesn't have the same quality and longevity as a new 2013 toyota tacoma and that is why it is cheaper. i'm waiting for the day a car always works and never wears out unless it gets a scratch in the paint and then will never work again.
that disc either works or it doesn't.
if a disc aged like a car or like how just about anything else it would be a better comparison. maybe they should start doing the limited plays system again. didn't best buy have a movie player years ago that let you play a disc a few times? it bombed.


So you're still playing Madden 2006?
 
2013-01-04 11:52:21 AM
To get away with this, first they have to eliminate the first sale principle of copyright law. The bad news is that they are well on their way to doing this. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/10/scotus-first-sale-2/
 
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