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(USA Today)   2013 Fiesta Bowl featured the ultra-rare one-point safety, the Halley's Comet of NCAA football rulings (w/video)   (usatoday.com) divider line 69
    More: Unlikely, NCAA Football, Halley's Comet, Fiesta Bowl, NCAA, play action pass, field of play, Kansas State  
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3678 clicks; posted to Sports » on 04 Jan 2013 at 9:09 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-04 07:03:52 AM
Have to admit, I never heard of it before.
 
2013-01-04 07:11:59 AM
Huh... I thought the only way to score a single point was if one of the teams forfeited.

What else don't I know?
 
2013-01-04 09:15:52 AM
I saw this, and was pretty sure they'd run it backwards into the end zone. I tried to explain it to the other poker players but that's the kind of thing that sounds like a made up rule: "Yeah, it's a one-point safety." "Fark off."

I like how the referee basically made up the signal on the spot.
 
2013-01-04 09:18:46 AM

Vodka Zombie: Huh... I thought the only way to score a single point was if one of the teams forfeited.

What else don't I know?


Every extra point kick is for a single point?
 
2013-01-04 09:21:50 AM

TheOther: Vodka Zombie: Huh... I thought the only way to score a single point was if one of the teams forfeited.

What else don't I know?

Every extra point kick is for a single point?


Yes, but it gets added to the touchdown - a box score wouldn't show a single point for the conversion, just the 7 points. With the one-point safety, the box score could show a team scored only 1 point in the entire quarter (or game)
 
2013-01-04 09:22:37 AM
Could someone teach this play to the AZ Cardinals coaching staff?

This could triple the Cardinals scoring totals!
 
2013-01-04 09:24:57 AM

Autumn Moone: TheOther: Vodka Zombie: Huh... I thought the only way to score a single point was if one of the teams forfeited.

What else don't I know?

Every extra point kick is for a single point?

Yes, but it gets added to the touchdown - a box score wouldn't show a single point for the conversion, just the 7 points. With the one-point safety, the box score could show a team scored only 1 point in the entire quarter (or game)


You can only get the one point safety after scoring a touchdown, so the same thing applies.

By the rule cited, it sounds like Oregon could have lined up for a 2 point conversion, have a similar play, and then still only get one point.

I assume the NFL has no similar rule because the defense can't return a blocked PAT, anyone know if I am right?
 
2013-01-04 09:25:32 AM
Not sure you can call it the Haleys Comet of football, when TFA even says it happened in 2004, in a Texas v. Texas A & M no less, so it's not like it was "Bob's div. III School of Reading and Making Stuff"

/Still rare though, and I'd never heard of it
 
2013-01-04 09:40:45 AM

my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: Not sure you can call it the Haleys Comet of football, when TFA even says it happened in 2004, in a Texas v. Texas A & M no less, so it's not like it was "Bob's div. III School of Reading and Making Stuff"

/Still rare though, and I'd never heard of it


I think it's more the fact that it's only ever been recorded twice now.

I was actually making a joke about how much airtime would be spent explaining this if it happened in an NFL game just last week.
 
2013-01-04 09:48:02 AM

Autumn Moone: Yes, but it gets added to the touchdown - a box score wouldn't show a single point for the conversion, just the 7 points. With the one-point safety, the box score could show a team scored only 1 point in the entire quarter (or game)


Not really, since it can only happen on a conversion try - the team had to score a touchdown first.
 
2013-01-04 09:49:28 AM
I'd really like to see a final score of 1 to 0 in a football game.
 
2013-01-04 09:51:34 AM
I did not know this. Thank you. This will make a good bar bet (for friends who don't watch college football)
 
2013-01-04 09:57:36 AM

RDixon: I'd really like to see a final score of 1 to 0 in a football game.


Unpossible.
 
2013-01-04 09:59:25 AM

majestic: RDixon: I'd really like to see a final score of 1 to 0 in a football game.

Unpossible.


Plus, what would the spread be? A half a point?
 
2013-01-04 10:00:13 AM
What's really amazing: ESPN's Brad Nessler called that game in 2004 and Thursday's Fiesta Bowl. What are the odds?

I don't know, but I'll take them, if we're wagering. Brad Nessler calls a lot of farking games.

/Not amazing
 
2013-01-04 10:07:16 AM
Ron Cherry, adding to the legend.
 
2013-01-04 10:11:52 AM

majestic: RDixon: I'd really like to see a final score of 1 to 0 in a football game.

Unpossible.


Is possible by canadian rules. Very unlikely but possible
 
2013-01-04 10:11:57 AM

bacongood: Autumn Moone: TheOther: Vodka Zombie: Huh... I thought the only way to score a single point was if one of the teams forfeited.

What else don't I know?

Every extra point kick is for a single point?

Yes, but it gets added to the touchdown - a box score wouldn't show a single point for the conversion, just the 7 points. With the one-point safety, the box score could show a team scored only 1 point in the entire quarter (or game)

You can only get the one point safety after scoring a touchdown, so the same thing applies.

By the rule cited, it sounds like Oregon could have lined up for a 2 point conversion, have a similar play, and then still only get one point.

I assume the NFL has no similar rule because the defense can't return a blocked PAT, anyone know if I am right?


No. In this case the defense (Kansas) got the point. So it's the offense that scores the touchdown but the defense gets the ball (either fumble or blocked kick) and down it in the endzone. If the offense was going for 2 and fumbled but then recovered in the endzone that wouldn't be a safety and I assume they'd still be awarded their two points.
 
2013-01-04 10:12:07 AM

RDixon: I'd really like to see a final score of 1 to 0 in a football game.


This happened on an extra point attempt, so I still don't see how it's possible to score just 1 point.

Say Team A attempts an extra point. Team B blocks it and runs it back the other way (in college it can get two points by doing this; in the NFL the play would be dead). But Team B, after a long run-back, fumbles just short of the goal line. Team A recovers and starts to come back the other way with it, but is tackled back in its own end zone. Is that a 1-point safety for Team B? You still can't have a 1-0 game since Team A will have a minimum of 6 points at that time, but maybe that's a way to have 1 point in a game. Or maybe the ball is dead after Team B fumbles. I don't know.
 
2013-01-04 10:14:02 AM

GlobalStrategic MapleSyrup Reserve: my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: Not sure you can call it the Haleys Comet of football, when TFA even says it happened in 2004, in a Texas v. Texas A & M no less, so it's not like it was "Bob's div. III School of Reading and Making Stuff"

/Still rare though, and I'd never heard of it

I think it's more the fact that it's only ever been recorded twice now.

I was actually making a joke about how much airtime would be spent explaining this if it happened in an NFL game just last week.


A blocked PAT recovered by the defense is a dead ball in the NFL. So it would take potato refs for that to even be possible.
 
2013-01-04 10:18:36 AM

Super Chronic: RDixon: I'd really like to see a final score of 1 to 0 in a football game.

This happened on an extra point attempt, so I still don't see how it's possible to score just 1 point.

Say Team A attempts an extra point. Team B blocks it and runs it back the other way (in college it can get two points by doing this; in the NFL the play would be dead). But Team B, after a long run-back, fumbles just short of the goal line. Team A recovers and starts to come back the other way with it, but is tackled back in its own end zone. Is that a 1-point safety for Team B? You still can't have a 1-0 game since Team A will have a minimum of 6 points at that time, but maybe that's a way to have 1 point in a game. Or maybe the ball is dead after Team B fumbles. I don't know.


That's the only way a team can score a single point in a quarter or game.
 
2013-01-04 10:19:19 AM

Super Chronic: RDixon: I'd really like to see a final score of 1 to 0 in a football game.

This happened on an extra point attempt, so I still don't see how it's possible to score just 1 point.

Say Team A attempts an extra point. Team B blocks it and runs it back the other way (in college it can get two points by doing this; in the NFL the play would be dead). But Team B, after a long run-back, fumbles just short of the goal line. Team A recovers and starts to come back the other way with it, but is tackled back in its own end zone. Is that a 1-point safety for Team B? You still can't have a 1-0 game since Team A will have a minimum of 6 points at that time, but maybe that's a way to have 1 point in a game. Or maybe the ball is dead after Team B fumbles. I don't know.


A tries a PAT, gets blocked, B runs it back to the other end-zone, gets 1 point.

A goes for 2, turns the ball over, B runs it back to the other end-zone, gets 2 points.

A goes for PAT, gets blocked, B recovers but turns over the ball, A recovers and goes into the end-zone gets 2 points.
 
2013-01-04 10:23:49 AM
Y'all realize that Oregon got the 1 point, not Kansas State?
 
2013-01-04 10:27:25 AM

RDixon: I'd really like to see a final score of 1 to 0 in a football game.


Link Do a search for "forfeit scores"

Any NCAA football game that ends in forfeit with the forfeiting team is up or the score is tied or if the game hasn't reached a "reasonable point of conclusion" (3 complete quarters) will end in a 1-0 score.
 
2013-01-04 10:32:29 AM

ole prophet: A tries a PAT, gets blocked, B runs it back to the other end-zone, gets 1 point.

A goes for 2, turns the ball over, B runs it back to the other end-zone, gets 2 points.


Are you sure about this? I thought this was two points either way. Wiki seems to say it's 2 points for any PAT run-back.

Another Wiki page refers to the rare defensive "conversion safety", but unfortunately just cites Gregg Easterbrook, who is occasionally right, often wrong and certainly not authoritative. Clicking through, Patrick Breslin of Wayne, Pa. describes it this way: a conversion safety for the defense "occurs if a ball-carrier from the team attempting a PAT kick somehow ends up retreating all the way to his end zone, and was tackled or fumbled out of the end zone." This seems virtually impossible unless maybe there was some kind of Keystone Kops situation where people kept accidentally kicking the ball and having it squirt out of their hands. But I would also think the same result would occur in the scenario I described, where A fails in the try (one or two points), B runs it most of the way back and winds up with a safety. I think.
 
2013-01-04 10:36:34 AM

cfreak:
No. In this case the defense (Kansas) got the point. So it's the offense that scores the touchdown but the defense gets the ball (either fumble or blocked kick) and down it in the endzone. If the offense was going for 2 and fumbled but then recovered in the endzone that wouldn't be a safety and I assume they'd still be awarded their two points.


Oregon (kicking team) got the point, not Kansas.

My hypo was Oregon lining for 2, fumbles, Kansas recovers and runs it back into the endzone (much like it recovered this block kick and ran it backwards), Oregon tackles Kansas in the end zone. Under this hypo, judging by the rule in the article, Oregon would get one point. Which is odd, cause they lined for 2.
 
2013-01-04 10:39:57 AM

Super Chronic: ole prophet: A tries a PAT, gets blocked, B runs it back to the other end-zone, gets 1 point.

A goes for 2, turns the ball over, B runs it back to the other end-zone, gets 2 points.

Are you sure about this? I thought this was two points either way. Wiki seems to say it's 2 points for any PAT run-back.

Another Wiki page refers to the rare defensive "conversion safety", but unfortunately just cites Gregg Easterbrook, who is occasionally right, often wrong and certainly not authoritative. Clicking through, Patrick Breslin of Wayne, Pa. describes it this way: a conversion safety for the defense "occurs if a ball-carrier from the team attempting a PAT kick somehow ends up retreating all the way to his end zone, and was tackled or fumbled out of the end zone." This seems virtually impossible unless maybe there was some kind of Keystone Kops situation where people kept accidentally kicking the ball and having it squirt out of their hands. But I would also think the same result would occur in the scenario I described, where A fails in the try (one or two points), B runs it most of the way back and winds up with a safety. I think.


I think some high schools run the game clock during PATs, so it could be a case of scoring to take the lead with 10 seconds left and then just running backwards to run out the clock without risking a kickoff return.
 
2013-01-04 10:50:19 AM

RminusQ: I saw this, and was pretty sure they'd run it backwards into the end zone. I tried to explain it to the other poker players but that's the kind of thing that sounds like a made up rule: "Yeah, it's a one-point safety." "Fark off."

I like how the referee basically made up the signal on the spot.


Signal would probably be the safety signal in front of the ref, rather than over his head.

As in, you should all pray right now, because God has seen fit to bestow upon you a 1-point safety.
 
2013-01-04 10:53:54 AM
So the team that scored the safety gets the ball back, right?
 
2013-01-04 10:59:31 AM
Well you learn something new every day, so I'm done until tomorrow.
 
2013-01-04 11:01:38 AM
Props to the ref for knowing that particular rule.
 
2013-01-04 11:10:58 AM

Representative of the unwashed masses: majestic: RDixon: I'd really like to see a final score of 1 to 0 in a football game.

Unpossible.

Is possible by canadian rules. Very unlikely but possible


And that's why I would've just called that score last night a rouge. I think everyone knows what a rouge is by now.
 
2013-01-04 11:17:11 AM

Deneb81: GlobalStrategic MapleSyrup Reserve: my_cats_breath_smells_like_cat_food: Not sure you can call it the Haleys Comet of football, when TFA even says it happened in 2004, in a Texas v. Texas A & M no less, so it's not like it was "Bob's div. III School of Reading and Making Stuff"

/Still rare though, and I'd never heard of it

I think it's more the fact that it's only ever been recorded twice now.

I was actually making a joke about how much airtime would be spent explaining this if it happened in an NFL game just last week.

A blocked PAT recovered by the defense is a dead ball in the NFL. So it would take potato refs for that to even be possible.


Has this always been the case? I remember as a kid (80's) watching one of my beloved Bucs (Rod "Toast" Jones?) block a PAT and then run it back for what I thought was a touchdown (I was a kid). My dad just shook his head and told me it would just be one point. His look also carried the acceptance of the inevitable - another Tampa Bay loss.
 
2013-01-04 11:36:43 AM
Still waiting to see a fair catch free kick.
 
2013-01-04 11:42:11 AM

LesserEvil: So the team that scored the safety gets the ball back, right?


Yes, but only half of it.
 
2013-01-04 12:33:23 PM
i1182.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-04 12:40:20 PM

bacongood: Autumn Moone: TheOther: Vodka Zombie: Huh... I thought the only way to score a single point was if one of the teams forfeited.

What else don't I know?

Every extra point kick is for a single point?

Yes, but it gets added to the touchdown - a box score wouldn't show a single point for the conversion, just the 7 points. With the one-point safety, the box score could show a team scored only 1 point in the entire quarter (or game)

You can only get the one point safety after scoring a touchdown, so the same thing applies.


Does this rule apply to field-goals? If the game were tied 0-0, and Oregon was kicking for 3 and this happened, what would be the outcome?

/ Honest question.
 
2013-01-04 12:47:12 PM
So would 6-1 be the "weirdest" score possible then?

I've been trying to think up a weirder scenario...
 
2013-01-04 12:48:11 PM

Rent Party: bacongood: Autumn Moone: TheOther: Vodka Zombie: Huh... I thought the only way to score a single point was if one of the teams forfeited.

What else don't I know?

Every extra point kick is for a single point?

Yes, but it gets added to the touchdown - a box score wouldn't show a single point for the conversion, just the 7 points. With the one-point safety, the box score could show a team scored only 1 point in the entire quarter (or game)

You can only get the one point safety after scoring a touchdown, so the same thing applies.


Does this rule apply to field-goals? If the game were tied 0-0, and Oregon was kicking for 3 and this happened, what would be the outcome?

/ Honest question.


Six points.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the question?
 
2013-01-04 01:05:12 PM
This isn't that complicated. In regular play, a touchdown is worth 6 points, a field goal 3 points, and a safety 2 points.

On a try, a touchdown is worth 2 points. A field goal or safety is worth 1 point.

That's it. That's all there is to it. Don't make it any more complicated.
 
2013-01-04 01:05:19 PM

Super Chronic: Rent Party: bacongood: Autumn Moone: TheOther: Vodka Zombie: Huh... I thought the only way to score a single point was if one of the teams forfeited.

What else don't I know?

Every extra point kick is for a single point?

Yes, but it gets added to the touchdown - a box score wouldn't show a single point for the conversion, just the 7 points. With the one-point safety, the box score could show a team scored only 1 point in the entire quarter (or game)

You can only get the one point safety after scoring a touchdown, so the same thing applies.


Does this rule apply to field-goals? If the game were tied 0-0, and Oregon was kicking for 3 and this happened, what would be the outcome?

/ Honest question.

Six points.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the question?


Yes, you are misunderstanding the question and also misunderstanding the scenario in TFA. In TFA, the blocked kick is recovered by the defending team and is then downed in *their own end-zone.* It is not run back for a TD, it is downed for a safety. This is also NCAA rules, not NFL. In the NFL, this would have simply been a dead ball.

So the question is, "If on an extra point try this scores one point, what would happen if it were a field-goal try?"
 
2013-01-04 01:11:10 PM

Rent Party: Super Chronic: Rent Party: bacongood: Autumn Moone: TheOther: Vodka Zombie: Huh... I thought the only way to score a single point was if one of the teams forfeited.

What else don't I know?

Every extra point kick is for a single point?

Yes, but it gets added to the touchdown - a box score wouldn't show a single point for the conversion, just the 7 points. With the one-point safety, the box score could show a team scored only 1 point in the entire quarter (or game)

You can only get the one point safety after scoring a touchdown, so the same thing applies.


Does this rule apply to field-goals? If the game were tied 0-0, and Oregon was kicking for 3 and this happened, what would be the outcome?

/ Honest question.

Six points.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the question?

Yes, you are misunderstanding the question and also misunderstanding the scenario in TFA. In TFA, the blocked kick is recovered by the defending team and is then downed in *their own end-zone.* It is not run back for a TD, it is downed for a safety. This is also NCAA rules, not NFL. In the NFL, this would have simply been a dead ball.

So the question is, "If on an extra point try this scores one point, what would happen if it were a field-goal try?"


I see. No, I wasn't misunderstanding TFA because you gave no indication that you were referring to TFA. I've been in multiple discussions in this thread and I know what TFA is about, thank you very much.
 
2013-01-04 01:11:22 PM

Rent Party: Yes, you are misunderstanding the question and also misunderstanding the scenario in TFA. In TFA, the blocked kick is recovered by the defending team and is then downed in *their own end-zone.* It is not run back for a TD, it is downed for a safety. This is also NCAA rules, not NFL. In the NFL, this would have simply been a dead ball.

So the question is, "If on an extra point try this scores one point, what would happen if it were a field-goal try?"


Safety. Two points awarded to the kicking team. The team in whose end zone the ball became dead will kickoff from its 20-yard line.
 
2013-01-04 01:19:41 PM

Super Chronic:
So the question is, "If on an extra point try this scores one point, what would happen if it were a field-goal try?"

I see. No, I wasn't misunderstanding TFA because you gave no indication that you were referring to TFA. I've been in multiple discussions in this thread and I know what TFA is about, thank you very much.


You need indication that we are discussing TFA in a thread about TFA, and a question based on events that TFA was written about?

I'm just going to highlight you as "moron" and ignore you now.
 
2013-01-04 01:20:22 PM

PredDawg8: Rent Party: Yes, you are misunderstanding the question and also misunderstanding the scenario in TFA. In TFA, the blocked kick is recovered by the defending team and is then downed in *their own end-zone.* It is not run back for a TD, it is downed for a safety. This is also NCAA rules, not NFL. In the NFL, this would have simply been a dead ball.

So the question is, "If on an extra point try this scores one point, what would happen if it were a field-goal try?"

Safety. Two points awarded to the kicking team. The team in whose end zone the ball became dead will kickoff from its 20-yard line.


Thank you. I am now smarter for your efforts.
 
2013-01-04 01:31:39 PM

Rent Party: Super Chronic:
So the question is, "If on an extra point try this scores one point, what would happen if it were a field-goal try?"

I see. No, I wasn't misunderstanding TFA because you gave no indication that you were referring to TFA. I've been in multiple discussions in this thread and I know what TFA is about, thank you very much.

You need indication that we are discussing TFA in a thread about TFA, and a question based on events that TFA was written about?

I'm just going to highlight you as "moron" and ignore you now.


Dude, don't be a dick. I misunderstood your question. I posted a link that I liked.
 
2013-01-04 01:33:06 PM
I guess you could still see a 6-1 score if the holder on an extra point decides to go all Forrest Gump in the wrong direction.
 
2013-01-04 01:34:55 PM
The other interesting point about the 1-point safety is that the team surrendering the safety didn't kick-off as per normal safety rules. That would have really sucked for Kansas.
 
2013-01-04 01:42:09 PM

OSULugan: The other interesting point about the 1-point safety is that the team surrendering the safety didn't kick-off as per normal safety rules. That would have really sucked for Kansas.


True, but they also ran a blocked kick back into their own endzone so it may have been a pretty fair outcome. "You are too stupid, we are giving the ball back to the team that just scored."

/also, in TFA it really looks like a foward lateral in the end zone. Wouldn't change anything I assume, but still... that guy was dead set on making a dumb play.
 
2013-01-04 01:42:25 PM

Rent Party: bacongood: Autumn Moone: TheOther: Vodka Zombie: Huh... I thought the only way to score a single point was if one of the teams forfeited.

What else don't I know?

Every extra point kick is for a single point?

Yes, but it gets added to the touchdown - a box score wouldn't show a single point for the conversion, just the 7 points. With the one-point safety, the box score could show a team scored only 1 point in the entire quarter (or game)

You can only get the one point safety after scoring a touchdown, so the same thing applies.


Does this rule apply to field-goals? If the game were tied 0-0, and Oregon was kicking for 3 and this happened, what would be the outcome?

/ Honest question.


No, that would just be the standard old 2-point safety.

A blocked field goal can be caught and returned just like a punt (it isn't frequent, but it does happen). In any circumstance other than a PAT attempt, when a player fields a kick in their end zone, exits, returns by choice, and then proceeds to get tackled the defense gets two points and the ball.
 
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