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(Slate)   Let's talk about who really buys the AR-15   (slate.com) divider line 1354
    More: Interesting, semi-automatic rifle, semiautomatic pistols, federal assault weapons ban, Freedom Group, target shooting, Ayn Rand, car fire, long guns  
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34424 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jan 2013 at 12:11 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-03 11:12:30 AM  
interesting piece.
 
2013-01-03 11:16:44 AM  
So we should consider banning the AR-15 because they sell well and are popular with shootists?

Okay then...
 
2013-01-03 11:17:45 AM  
Article say .223 or AR-15?  I thought AR-15s were .556?
 
2013-01-03 11:19:00 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: Article say .223 or AR-15?  I thought AR-15s were .556?


Nevermind - I see they're essentially identical.

/Only shot M16s with .556.
 
2013-01-03 11:19:16 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: Article say .223 or AR-15?  I thought AR-15s were .556?


5.56 NATO and .223 Remington are almost the same.  Generally speaking an AR-15's chamber is set to handle both specs.
 
2013-01-03 11:27:04 AM  
But the AR-15 is not ideal for the hunting and home-defense uses that the NRA's Keene cited today. Though it can be used for hunting, the AR-15 isn't really a hunting rifle. Its standard .223 caliber ammunition doesn't offer much stopping power for anything other than small game. Hunters themselves find the rifle controversial, with some arguing AR-15-style rifles empower sloppy, "spray and pray" hunters to waste ammunition.

While I do agree that it is not very well suited for hunting standard game, I did watch one tear though almost a dozen hogs in around 2 minutes. We've got a huge hog problem at our deer lease and one of the guys on the lease brought his son's AR-15 to see if he could pop a couple. My uncle and I are sitting around the fire pit when we heard 1 shot. Then about 5 minutes later we heard about 20 shots in a row. The guy with the AR radios us and tells us to come to his blind. He's got around 10 hogs on the ground, all dead. Said the first shot actually got 3 of them (they lined up perfectly), then about 5 minutes later a whole drove of them come to his blind and he just opened up on them.

Yea it's an anecdotal CSB, but I have seen their uses beyond just murder machines.
 
2013-01-03 11:28:22 AM  
I own an AR-15. I'm not a survivalist or a gun nut or a hunter. I'm a guy who enjoys going out in the desert and shooting assorted targets for fun. It's really that simple. If you like shooting as a sport, the AR-15 is a lot of fun to shoot. I understand that some people don't like shooting as a sport and think "why do you need that kind of gun" but that's just because it's not their thing. AR-15 owners don't buy AR-15s because they have some inherent desire to have more "killing power."

Also, many people here in rural Utah use AR-15s as varmint control weapons. As the article states, a .223 cartridge is not ideal for large game hunting, but it is good for varmint control and a lot more flexible than a bolt-action rifle.
 
2013-01-03 11:40:04 AM  
is the .223/.556 the same NATO round that the current western militaries use? it's essentially a high-powered .22, right?
 
2013-01-03 11:40:13 AM  

cr7pilot: I own an AR-15. I'm not a survivalist or a gun nut or a hunter. I'm a guy who enjoys going out in the desert and shooting assorted targets for fun. It's really that simple. If you like shooting as a sport, the AR-15 is a lot of fun to shoot. I understand that some people don't like shooting as a sport and think "why do you need that kind of gun" but that's just because it's not their thing. AR-15 owners don't buy AR-15s because they have some inherent desire to have more "killing power."


 This is me as well.  I own some hand guns (one .45 and two 9mms) for "home defense" but I also just enjoy shooting.  I've been considering getting an AR15 for a while now.  Used to own an AK-47 and, although the ammo is damned expensive, they're fun to shoot.
 
2013-01-03 11:41:02 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: cr7pilot: I own an AR-15. I'm not a survivalist or a gun nut or a hunter. I'm a guy who enjoys going out in the desert and shooting assorted targets for fun. It's really that simple. If you like shooting as a sport, the AR-15 is a lot of fun to shoot. I understand that some people don't like shooting as a sport and think "why do you need that kind of gun" but that's just because it's not their thing. AR-15 owners don't buy AR-15s because they have some inherent desire to have more "killing power."

 This is me as well.  I own some hand guns (one .45 and two 9mms) for "home defense" but I also just enjoy shooting.  I've been considering getting an AR15 for a while now.  Used to own an AK-47 and, although the ammo is damned expensive, they're fun to shoot.


where do you go that you find AK ammo expensive?
 
2013-01-03 11:47:07 AM  

CPT Ethanolic: cr7pilot: I own an AR-15. I'm not a survivalist or a gun nut or a hunter. I'm a guy who enjoys going out in the desert and shooting assorted targets for fun. It's really that simple. If you like shooting as a sport, the AR-15 is a lot of fun to shoot. I understand that some people don't like shooting as a sport and think "why do you need that kind of gun" but that's just because it's not their thing. AR-15 owners don't buy AR-15s because they have some inherent desire to have more "killing power."

 This is me as well.  I own some hand guns (one .45 and two 9mms) for "home defense" but I also just enjoy shooting.  I've been considering getting an AR15 for a while now.  Used to own an AK-47 and, although the ammo is damned expensive, they're fun to shoot.


Me too. I've got a .380 and a 9mm, but the AR-15 is fun to shoot on a long range. It's also handy for disposing of those leftover Halloween pumpkins...
 
2013-01-03 12:00:38 PM  

dr_blasto: where do you go that you find AK ammo expensive?


I haven't bought 7.26 rounds since the 90's so couldn't comment on prices today.  I just remember that we'd go out with the AK, a 22 rifle, and a .38 when we went shooting, and the AK ammo always seemed crazy expensive compared to the rest.  I bought my current 9mm for target practice because the .45 ammo was way too expensive to pop off a few hundred rounds at the range.
 
2013-01-03 12:06:06 PM  

doglover: So we should consider banning the AR-15 because they sell well and are popular with shootists?

Okay then...


LOL!  Let's make them sound all sophisticated and elegant!  "Shootists" is like calling a pool player a "cueist."
 
2013-01-03 12:12:19 PM  

cr7pilot: CPT Ethanolic: cr7pilot: I own an AR-15. I'm not a survivalist or a gun nut or a hunter. I'm a guy who enjoys going out in the desert and shooting assorted targets for fun. It's really that simple. If you like shooting as a sport, the AR-15 is a lot of fun to shoot. I understand that some people don't like shooting as a sport and think "why do you need that kind of gun" but that's just because it's not their thing. AR-15 owners don't buy AR-15s because they have some inherent desire to have more "killing power."

 This is me as well.  I own some hand guns (one .45 and two 9mms) for "home defense" but I also just enjoy shooting.  I've been considering getting an AR15 for a while now.  Used to own an AK-47 and, although the ammo is damned expensive, they're fun to shoot.

Me too. I've got a .380 and a 9mm, but the AR-15 is fun to shoot on a long range. It's also handy for disposing of those leftover Halloween pumpkins...


It's good to see people admit that this hoopla is really about their 2nd Amendment right to have "fun."
 
2013-01-03 12:13:49 PM  
But AR-15s look just like the military model PEW PEW PEW YEEHAW gunnuh shoot them commies up just like ol Schwartenaggur used tah do!

They just wants to take away our cool looking guns so that we'll be a bunch of sissies when they come git us and take us away!
 
2013-01-03 12:15:44 PM  

scottydoesntknow: Yea it's an anecdotal CSB, but I have seen their uses beyond just murder machines.


He penetrated 3 hogs (wild boars?) with a single .223 round?
 
2013-01-03 12:16:45 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: It's good to see people admit that this hoopla is really about their 2nd Amendment right to have "fun."


  Much of it is.  I could have a shotgun and a .45 pistol and be about as protected as I'm going to get in my home, barring some kind of riot outside or something.  But - shooting is fun.  It's been a hobby since guns were invented.  I go back and forth on banning assault weapons because I do appreciate the hobby of shooting, but I would be in favor of banning high capacity magazines.  Assault weapons can be used for "fun", but high capacity magazines are ONLY meant for producing a high casualty count in a short period of time.  There is no other realistic use.  For target practice, you don't need a 30+ rnd magazine.
 
2013-01-03 12:17:04 PM  
In before the whiny anti-gun nuts who think the mere act of holding a gun makes one a psychopathic killer.
 
2013-01-03 12:17:23 PM  
I own an AR-15.

I support gay rights, healthcare reform, I'm not religious, I'm pro-abortion, I think "preppers" (I hate even typing the word) and people who say "SHTF" are usually weird if not idiots.

But DURR, they're only owned by rednecks and criminals.

Around TWENTY TIMES more people die to handguns than rifles. Rifle deaths a year amount in the low hundreds. Handgun deaths amount to 6000 odd. Both numbers are dropping.

But let's go batshiat insane over one particular type of rifle.
 
2013-01-03 12:17:40 PM  
Fat white men who were rejected from the military?
 
2013-01-03 12:18:07 PM  

cr7pilot: Me too. I've got a .380 and a 9mm, but the AR-15 is fun to shoot on a long range. It's also handy for disposing of those leftover Halloween pumpkins...


I enjoy shooting too, and have fired my friend's AR-15 a couple times, but do people honestly believe our entertainment justifies twenty dead six-year-olds?
 
2013-01-03 12:18:17 PM  
Facepalm article.

It's popular and underpowered, so people with guns should be forced to buy more powerful and less popular guns. Ok then.
 
2013-01-03 12:18:20 PM  

BarkingUnicorn: cr7pilot: CPT Ethanolic: cr7pilot: I own an AR-15. I'm not a survivalist or a gun nut or a hunter. I'm a guy who enjoys going out in the desert and shooting assorted targets for fun. It's really that simple. If you like shooting as a sport, the AR-15 is a lot of fun to shoot. I understand that some people don't like shooting as a sport and think "why do you need that kind of gun" but that's just because it's not their thing. AR-15 owners don't buy AR-15s because they have some inherent desire to have more "killing power."

 This is me as well.  I own some hand guns (one .45 and two 9mms) for "home defense" but I also just enjoy shooting.  I've been considering getting an AR15 for a while now.  Used to own an AK-47 and, although the ammo is damned expensive, they're fun to shoot.

Me too. I've got a .380 and a 9mm, but the AR-15 is fun to shoot on a long range. It's also handy for disposing of those leftover Halloween pumpkins...

It's good to see people admit that this hoopla is really about their 2nd Amendment right to have "fun."


Cars are fun too. Unless I decide to go on a bender or have an epileptic seizure and plow through a crowd.
 
2013-01-03 12:18:48 PM  
" ...able to penetrate both sides of a standard Army helmet at 500 meters rifle..."

With or without a head inside?

And why are we creating guns designed to shoot through our own soldiers helmets?
 
2013-01-03 12:18:49 PM  
Who are we kidding here?

Newtown will bring back the assault weapons ban. Deep down the NRA knows this, but must maintain a "hell no" stance just for image, but they will relent on this one.

And that's it.

Way too much money and power to be relinquished for any meaningful change.

And school security will continue to consist of crossing fingers.
 
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-01-03 12:18:51 PM  
Well, since the AR15 (semi-auto version of the M16) isn't useful for hunting or defense, I suppose our military will abandon it immediately?  I mean if it's useless for hunting, then you couldn't possibly go out in the field and hunt 200 lb humans in the Jungle or anywhere else, Right?  Or if it's useless for defense they will start using something else to protect themselves?  Defense forces around the world use the full auto version of the AR-15 as a standard of protection.  Will this be going away because some clueless writer thinks the firearm doesn't have merit?

I know people who hunt with the AR15 and are quite successful with it.  Saying it isn't useful as a hunting gun is an outright lie.  Saying that a M4 version of an AR15 can't be used for defense is an outright lie.  The AR15 didn't cause these crimes.  Mental illness caused these crimes.  Take away the AR-15 and they'll use AK-47's.  Take those away and they'll use shotguns, take those away and they'll use AR-7's.  Doesn't it make sense to seek out and treat mentally ill people?  What if Adam Lanza carried two 30 lb bottles of propane into the basement of the school, screwed a transfer adapter into the valve and released 60 lbs of propane into the basement and then lit a lighter?  The entire school would have likely been destroyed with all the children in it.  Thank god it chose the less deadly method of using a firearm.  Or what if he packed a backpack with four 5lb bags of flour and an electric fan, snuck into the school and plugged the fan into back of an auditorium (or the basement) and dumped the flour into the fan then lit a lighter?  Ever heard of a grain silo explosion?  Grain dust explosions are absolutely devastating.  Hundreds of people would die.  Should we ban propane because it's TOO DANGEROUS?  Should we ban flour because it's TOO DANGEROUS?  See my point?  There will ALWAYS be something available to mentally ill people.

Vilifying the method of killing is just a ploy to start down the slippery slope of eliminating a gun or class of guns and superimposing the actions of violent criminals onto inanimate objects.
Let's not get into the entire black market issue.Once we ban guns we'll create a prohibition like market for guns.The illegal import market will be happy to import hand grenades, rocket launchers, machine guns, etc.See my point?This is completely the wrong direction.
 
2013-01-03 12:19:20 PM  

you have pee hands: scottydoesntknow: Yea it's an anecdotal CSB, but I have seen their uses beyond just murder machines.

He penetrated 3 hogs (wild boars?) with a single .223 round?


All 3 were piglets. The sow went running after that (not sure if she was part of the drove that showed up 5 minutes later). I've gotten a 2-fer before, but never had 3 line up.
 
2013-01-03 12:19:30 PM  
Short version:

Gun nuts are all over the AR-15 because banning guns is bad. They're making up all kinds of dumb justifications about how the AR-15 is a hunting rifle somehow. Target practice with an AR-15 is valid--recreational shooting is a real thing.

Liberal nanny-pants are focused on how many crazy loons have used the AR-15 style rifle as a murder weapon in mass shootings. This is primarily because it looks bad-ass and sociopaths have this internal image they try to execute. The AR-15 is primarily a munitions weapon, and they believe all semi-automatics are munitions.

The flaws here are glaring. AR-15 sucks for hunting. AR-15 is not the only semi-auto--take any pistol, especially revolvers. Semi-auto isn't the best or only way to kill a bunch of people in a crowd--consider pipe bombs, or how bad-ass you'd look with a pump-action shotgun (name's Ash. Housewares.). Repeating weapons are common, full-auto is relatively harmless (really, you're going to pop-pop-pop into a crowd, people will die; if you spray bullets like mad, each individual will take MANY more bullets, but overall effectiveness isn't greatly increased) but AR-15 isn't a fully-auto weapon--mentioned because people are afraid of bad-assery like fully auto rock-'n'-roll mode rifles.

Everybody in this argument is stupid.
 
2013-01-03 12:19:44 PM  
Who wants an AR15? Someone that wants a relatively weak rifle that "looks mean."
Oooh, scary.
 
2013-01-03 12:20:10 PM  
Article sort of misses the point... The AR-15 is not necessarily absolutely ideal for hunting of home defense, but it's quite good for either. It's a single, versatile platform. Good home defense ammo is available. It's highly maneuverable-- sorry, TFA is just plain wrong about that. It's highly accurate. In short, if you can only afford one quality rifle, it may be a great choice for you. On the other hand, if you're hunting big game (elk, moose, blue whales), you're going to have to shell out for something more potent.
 
2013-01-03 12:20:28 PM  
I inherited a 1972 Colt-made AR 15 a few years ago. Had no use for it, so I sold it. Kinda wish I kept it. You know, for hunting and home protection.
 
2013-01-03 12:21:12 PM  

doglover: So we should consider banning the AR-15 because they sell well and are popular with shootists?

Okay then...


You know, I don't actually see the line in the article where the author specifically proposes a ban.

But perhaps a reasonable person may want to consider the function and design purpose of a firearm when deciding how it should be regulated? Or is that just too 'gun grabby' to say?
 
2013-01-03 12:21:46 PM  

Teknowaffle: Fat white men who were rejected from the military?


Why does it have to be a white man? Racist.

2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-03 12:22:00 PM  
Nice try subby, not clicking on the political propaganda rag.
 
2013-01-03 12:22:22 PM  

Wolf_Blitzer: cr7pilot: Me too. I've got a .380 and a 9mm, but the AR-15 is fun to shoot on a long range. It's also handy for disposing of those leftover Halloween pumpkins...

I enjoy shooting too, and have fired my friend's AR-15 a couple times, but do people honestly believe our entertainment freedom justifies twenty dead six-year-olds?


Absolutely.
 
2013-01-03 12:22:28 PM  

cr7pilot: It's also handy for disposing of those leftover Halloween pumpkins...


Are you Hickok45 from YouTube?
 
2013-01-03 12:23:00 PM  
Don't ban but subject people with more than 4 guns or these types of a rifles a mental health examine every three-five years
 
2013-01-03 12:23:12 PM  
Not any good for defense? Then why do the police have them? Offensive purposes?
 
2013-01-03 12:23:27 PM  

scottydoesntknow: But the AR-15 is not ideal for the hunting and home-defense uses that the NRA's Keene cited today. Though it can be used for hunting, the AR-15 isn't really a hunting rifle. Its standard .223 caliber ammunition doesn't offer much stopping power for anything other than small game. Hunters themselves find the rifle controversial, with some arguing AR-15-style rifles empower sloppy, "spray and pray" hunters to waste ammunition.

While I do agree that it is not very well suited for hunting standard game, I did watch one tear though almost a dozen hogs in around 2 minutes. We've got a huge hog problem at our deer lease and one of the guys on the lease brought his son's AR-15 to see if he could pop a couple. My uncle and I are sitting around the fire pit when we heard 1 shot. Then about 5 minutes later we heard about 20 shots in a row. The guy with the AR radios us and tells us to come to his blind. He's got around 10 hogs on the ground, all dead. Said the first shot actually got 3 of them (they lined up perfectly), then about 5 minutes later a whole drove of them come to his blind and he just opened up on them.

Yea it's an anecdotal CSB, but I have seen their uses beyond just murder machines.


Building on that, I have an AR-10 style weapon, not one of the original Stoner production run of course, and I have to say that 7.62x39 is a damn fine round for hogs. Having been charged by a 300 pound monster with tusks once (after my dumb ass hunting partner managed to make it mad) I also have found feelings regarding the 30 round magazine. 7.62x39 is also a nice round for deer.

While I know that AR-15 =/= AR-10, if we're going to ban AR style semi-autos, a bunch of AR-10 owners who use that style to hunt are going to be mildly annoyed at the very least. I definitely agree that home defense is not a prime use for the AR style though.

The reality is 5.56 and .223 are so damn cheap because a lot of companies have lines going to do bulk production for the military and LEOs. Same with the AR style frame. Lots of companies are making them for LEO and lots of ex military guys are buying them because it is the tool they know. That leads to economies of scale and increasing popularity.

/I still want an AR style that handles 7.62×63
//the WASR 10 is nice
/we have a huge hog problem too and go help out various farmers by clearing them out
 
2013-01-03 12:23:42 PM  
looks like a hell of a lot of fun to shoot out in the desert. doesn't mean i'm going to defend either side with any vigor.

handguns are most certainly the most commonly used murder tool in the US. and something needs to be done to keep them out of the hands of criminals while respecting the rights of law abiding citizens. and something needs to be done to keep AR-type weapons out of the hands of crazies who wants to kill lots of people quickly, while still trying to allow for recreational use by law abiding citizens.
 
2013-01-03 12:23:52 PM  
Keene ridiculed the notion that AR-15-style rifles ought to be banned just because "a half dozen [AR-15s] out of more than three million have been misused after illegally falling into the hands of crazed killers." And, sure. But the AR-15 is very good at one thing: engaging the enemy at a rapid rate of fire. When someone like Adam Lanza uses it to take out 26 people in a matter of minutes, he's committing a crime, but he isn't misusing the rifle. That's exactly what it was engineered to do.

The bottom line (literally)

/responsible gun owner
 
2013-01-03 12:23:54 PM  

FlashHarry: is the .223/.556 the same NATO round that the current western militaries use? it's essentially a high-powered .22, right?


5.56
 
2013-01-03 12:23:56 PM  
Got this with a simple search.
The following is a list of some of the calibers that the AR-15 can use,

Without bolt modification
.17 Remington
.17/223
.20 Tactical
.20 Practical
.20 Vartag
.204 Ruger
.221 Fireball
.222 Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
.223 Remington (5.56x45mm)
.223 Remington Ackley Improved
6x45mm
6mm TCU
6x47mm
6mm Whisper
.25x45mm
6.5mm Whisper
7mm Whisper
7mm TCU
.300 Whisper (.300/221, .300 Fireball)
.338 Whisper

AR-15, with bolt modification
223 WSSM
5.45x39mm (.21 Genghis)
243 WSSM
6mm PPC
6mm WOA
6mm BR Remington
6mm Hagar
6.5mm PPC
6.5 WSSM
6.5 WOA
6.5mm Grendel
25 WSSM
6.8x43mm SPC
.30 Herrett Rimless Tactical (6.8x43mm case trimmed to 41mm and necked up to .308; the 6.8mm version of the .300 Whisper)
7.62x25
7.62x39mm
.30 RAR
300 OSSM
.357 Auto
.35 Gremlin (necked up 6.5 Grendel to 358)
.358 WSSM (various names, but all are some form of a WSSM necked up to 35 caliber, some are shortened to make them big game legal in Indiana)
.458 SOCOM
.50 Action Express
.50 Beowulf

AR-15 using a simple blowback operation
.17 HMR
.22 LR
.22 WMR
9x19mm
9x21
9x23
30 Carbine
357 Sig
40S&W
400 Cor-Bon
41 Action Express
10mm Auto
45 GAP
45ACP
45 Super
45 Win Mag

This list is in no way complete.

Story seems to be done by someone who has no clue but a agenda.
 
2013-01-03 12:24:08 PM  

bluefoxicy: They're making up all kinds of dumb justifications about how the AR-15 is a hunting rifle somehow.


bluefoxicy: AR-15 sucks for hunting.


The AR is quite capable as a hunter. Sorry, but any claim otherwise is simply a non-starter.
 
2013-01-03 12:24:15 PM  
Where exactly in the 2nd Amendment does it mention hunting?
 
2013-01-03 12:24:42 PM  

david_gaithersburg: Nice try subby, not clicking on the political propaganda rag.


Oh you...
 
2013-01-03 12:24:58 PM  
I think we should start banning everything we think other people "don't need." Who wants to go first?
 
2013-01-03 12:25:59 PM  

bluefoxicy: or how bad-ass you'd look with a pump-action shotgun (name's Ash. Housewares.)


Allow me to be a movie/gun nerd for a moment:

Ash didn't have a pump-action...he had a double barrel.  In "Army of Darkness", he claims it is a Remington, but it's actually a Stoeger Coach Gun.

/Own one.
 
2013-01-03 12:26:23 PM  
Having been a NRA member.....I got better....and having been a hunter since I was a teen, I know exactly the type of man who wants an AR-15: Rambo wannabe.
 
2013-01-03 12:26:36 PM  
I don't have any guns, but I think ending the War on Drug Users would easily prevent half our murders.
 
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