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(National Post)   Pack it up, physics nerds. With the discovery of the Higgs Boson, there is nothing left to explore in the world of physics. Now turn around, it's wedgie time   (news.nationalpost.com) divider line 68
    More: Unlikely, God particle, Particle Physics, physics, modern physics, gluons, supersymmetry, string theory, boson  
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2585 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Jan 2013 at 11:12 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-03 08:40:11 AM
Keep working, dammit. I want an Orion slave girl.
 
2013-01-03 08:48:16 AM
Considering how much we can't explain, we're far from the end of physics.
 
2013-01-03 08:56:27 AM
That's a lot of hokum.
t2.gstatic.com
 
2013-01-03 09:04:55 AM
Until I can make the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs, physics has still failed me.
 
2013-01-03 09:07:21 AM
How many times have people declared physics "done"?

They have been wrong every time.
 
2013-01-03 09:10:42 AM
I see no hover car. Keep working.
 
2013-01-03 09:23:57 AM
There is this thing called gravity that is very well known and understood but there isn't a single explanation of how the damn thing works.

I was disappointed by the Pioneer space craft slowing down was attributed to directional energy loss because they were the last best hope for a gravity that would push rather than pull.

/ I like to play devils advocate even if I'm using flat earth physics to navigate 1/2 way around the world.
 
2013-01-03 10:00:07 AM

WhyteRaven74: Considering how much we can't explain, we're far from the end of physics.


Nobody said it was the end of physics. What she said is that she doesn't know where the next big experiment will come from.

And why should you listen anyway? She's only the chair of physics at Harvard. Scientists will appreciate your continued largesse.
 
2013-01-03 11:15:20 AM

WhyteRaven74: Considering how much we can't explain, we're far from the end of physics.


Physics ended a few years ago. It's degraded into full-on meta-physics ever since.
 
2013-01-03 11:23:47 AM
more is different
 
2013-01-03 11:25:05 AM

NowhereMon: How many times have people declared physics "done"?

They have been wrong every time.


And never has it been declared done by an actual Physicist would be my guess. As for the article, I am guessing the writer took Franklin's statements a bit out of context. It looks like she was talking about Particle Physics and Particle Accelerators. And her statement basically is: If this is definitely the Higgs (it isn't certain yet) and there is no indication we need anything else further to complete work on the Standard Model (there is some possibility that the Higgs discovered isn't exactly as predicted by the Standard Model), then I don't think we will build another accelerator because all of the other questions we have we still aren't sure how to approach with this methodology.
 
2013-01-03 11:26:41 AM
Whenever I'm feeling like I've reached the end of Physics I always listen to this song, and then I get inspired. That's where the idea for Schwarzschild wormholes came from.
 
2013-01-03 11:30:19 AM

entropic_existence: NowhereMon: How many times have people declared physics "done"?

They have been wrong every time.

And never has it been declared done by an actual Physicist would be my guess. As for the article, I am guessing the writer took Franklin's statements a bit out of context. It looks like she was talking about Particle Physics and Particle Accelerators. And her statement basically is: If this is definitely the Higgs (it isn't certain yet) and there is no indication we need anything else further to complete work on the Standard Model (there is some possibility that the Higgs discovered isn't exactly as predicted by the Standard Model), then I don't think we will build another accelerator because all of the other questions we have we still aren't sure how to approach with this methodology.


My guess (editor's note: this guy has a social-science degree. Stock up on the Na before reading.) is that the Grand Unified Theory will start getting more attention. In addition to learning where the holes are in this new research.

I hope we find a way to send a probe to a black hole. Voyager made it a billion-plus miles in 35 years - we could fling a probe way further over the next 35.

// sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium
// BATMAN!
 
2013-01-03 11:31:29 AM
World's Physicists Complete Study Of Physics
NEWS IN BRIEF • Science & Technology • ISSUE 46•02 • Jan 14, 2010

HARIMA, JAPAN-Saying that there was no more knowledge to acquire about the physical nature of the universe, the International Union of Pure and Applied Physics announced Monday that it had concluded the scientific study of matter, energy, force, and motion. "Yeah, that about does it for physics," said IUPAP member Sukekatsu Ushioda, powering down Japan's Super Photon ring particle accelerator. "All done. Math can pretty much take it from here." The world's top physicists also announced that they would celebrate the conclusion of physics by meeting at PJ's Pub later tonight for drinks.
 
2013-01-03 11:31:59 AM
The minute you declare a science "done", you cease being a scientist.

Though, to be sure, my guess is this proclamation came from non-scientists.
 
2013-01-03 11:33:26 AM
Didn't someone say something similar about 10 years before Einstein published his 3 papers in 1905?
 
2013-01-03 11:39:25 AM
The National Post knows the way to troll Physicists and science nerds in general. Well done!
 
2013-01-03 11:43:32 AM
Two Questions (as this thread might actually attract the kind of people who will know)

1) In the description of the Higg's Field they keep talking about particles moving "through" the field acquiring mass: Would that mean that a particle with no movement through the field in all directions (dimensions?) have no mass? (Potentially impossible as the expanding universe might provide all the "movement" of the field necessary - the real question I guess is does movement relative to the field provide the mass or is is a more basic interaction?

2) Is there a, oh let's say "less frivolous", site where questions similar to what I proposed above can be posted and (possibly) responded to? My degree is in Chemistry and I'm not looking for someplace to teach me quantum physics but I think even non-physics majors might occasionally come up with some interesting ideas.
 
2013-01-03 11:47:23 AM
The Big Bang is a hoax!
 
2013-01-03 11:52:45 AM

Fizpez: 2) Is there a, oh let's say "less frivolous", site where questions similar to what I proposed above can be posted and (possibly) responded to? My degree is in Chemistry and I'm not looking for someplace to teach me quantum physics but I think even non-physics majors might occasionally come up with some interesting ideas.


Go post your question to reddit.com/r/askscience They're fairly rigorous.
 
2013-01-03 11:58:51 AM
o.onionstatic.com

"Yeah, the Higgs boson is getting a lot of attention, but there are a lot of lower-profile bosons that are worth checking out if you get the chance."

Tamara Farrar -
Unemployed

/thanks onion
 
2013-01-03 12:01:09 PM
The substructure of the universe regresses infinitely towards smaller and smaller components. Behind atoms we find electrons, and behind electrons quarks. Each layer unraveled reveals new secrets, but also new mysteries.

-- Academician Prokhor Zakharov, "For I Have Tasted The Fruit"

Seems poignant...
 
2013-01-03 12:03:36 PM
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

/aaaaaaaaaaaaand scene.
 
2013-01-03 12:03:58 PM
Misleading article headline?  Check.

Misleading Fark headline?  Check.

Manufactured indignation?  Check.
 
2013-01-03 12:05:45 PM

notmtwain: What she said is that she doesn't know where the next big experiment will come from.


Well I can think of a few areas. Also the article is wrong, finding the Higgs boson only explains why certain matter has mass. There's still the issue of why the rest of it has mass. And then there's all sorts of fun other stuff about matter, like why fundamental particles fall into groups as they do. Then there's gravity. We still haven't found gravity waves though they should exist. And then there's tying gravity in with everything else. While more an issue for theoreticians there's still plenty to do on the experimental side.
 
2013-01-03 12:06:23 PM
until we have holodecks with touchable babes, physics is never done
 
2013-01-03 12:10:25 PM
Have they cured cancer and AIDS? Then I don't want to hear anything about physickers packing up and going home. Back to work, people, I'm going to need that cloned replacement liver sooner rather than later.
 
2013-01-03 12:11:56 PM

AbiNormal: Didn't someone say something similar about 10 years before Einstein published his 3 papers in 1905?


Pretty much, and he had five papers he submitted in 1905 one however wasn't published until the following year but all the work was in 1905.
 
2013-01-03 12:12:18 PM

WhyteRaven74: Well I can think of a few areas. Also the article is wrong, finding the Higgs boson only explains why certain matter has mass. There's still the issue of why the rest of it has mass. And then there's all sorts of fun other stuff about matter, like why fundamental particles fall into groups as they do. Then there's gravity. We still haven't found gravity waves though they should exist. And then there's tying gravity in with everything else. While more an issue for theoreticians there's still plenty to do on the experimental side.


I think the issue is more that with the Higgs Boson, they had a target energy where they predicted to find it and they built the supercollider to a specific size for that purpose.  Those other things may be out there, but there isn't the same type of specific experimental target where they can say "Our current equipment can't do this experiment because of XXXX, but if you build THIS, we can".
 
2013-01-03 12:16:51 PM

you have pee hands: they built the supercollider to a specific size for that purpose.


Actually if they just wanted Higgs they wouldn't need such a big collider, it's just that they want to see what else they can find and so then the bigger the better. There's a lot of stuff going on at the LHC that has nothing to do with Higgs, and much of it is happening because of how big it is.
 
2013-01-03 12:17:26 PM
Well that's a silly thing to write about... let me just take a quick look here...

"What modern physics knows about the matter in the universe (better at the end of 2012 than the beginning)"

images.wikia.com

"Until she discovered the particle known as the top quark, for example...she could only guess what it looked like"

images.wikia.com

"... or what it weighed."

images.wikia.com

"Higgs completes the Standard Model of particle physics by explaining why stuff has mass"

images.wikia.com

"supersymmetry: all very cool ideas that offer no falsifiable hypotheses"

images.wikia.com

"Perhaps there is another Higgs, waiting to be detected at a higher energy. Or perhaps it can (and therefore does) decay into undetectable Dark Matter."

images.wikia.com

I love how that last comment essentially disproves the whole idea that there's nothing left in physics.
 
2013-01-03 12:19:00 PM

DeltaPunch: "supersymmetry: all very cool ideas that offer no falsifiable hypotheses"


And that isn't exactly correct either.
 
2013-01-03 12:26:06 PM
l.yimg.com

Hi. Me and my degree in biophysics from Yale will be happy to trade you your wedgie for a World Series ring.

media.nj.com

Aw hell, Craig, have you seen my masters in medical anthropology? I think I might have left it at Oxford...
 
2013-01-03 12:26:42 PM

Dr Dreidel:

// sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium
// BATMAN!


Hey now, this is clearly a physics thread. We'll have none of your chemistry humor here.
 
2013-01-03 12:35:42 PM
Until there is a model that also explains GRAVITY there is plenty to do.
 
2013-01-03 12:36:14 PM

WhyteRaven74: DeltaPunch: "supersymmetry: all very cool ideas that offer no falsifiable hypotheses"

And that isn't exactly correct either.


As a particle physicist, my mind was being blown by the general inaccuracy of all those statements listed above. ;)
 
2013-01-03 12:42:38 PM

SpectroBoy: Until there is a model that also explains GRAVITY there is plenty to do.


There are several models that explain gravity. General relativity is the most widely accepted these days.
 
2013-01-03 12:45:43 PM

ReverendLoki: Dr Dreidel:

// sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium
// BATMAN!

Hey now, this is clearly a physics thread. We'll have none of your chemistry humor here.


So should I make a chemistry-related sodium joke?

Na.

// apologies to Dork Cat or whatever
 
2013-01-03 12:48:34 PM

ReverendLoki: Dr Dreidel:

// sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium sodium
// BATMAN!

Hey now, this is clearly a physics thread. We'll have none of your chemistry humor here.


Seriously, he's out of his element. Chemistry puns Bohr me... for all I care you can take your puns and Barium.
 
2013-01-03 12:50:25 PM

DeltaPunch: As a particle physicist, my mind was being blown by the general inaccuracy of all those statements listed above. ;)


Well that for me was kind of a big one, like someone doesn't know just what falsifiable means.

Rent Party: There are several models that explain gravity. General relativity is the most widely accepted these days.


And it works beautifully just so long as you keep it way the hell away from quantum mechanics.
 
2013-01-03 01:09:11 PM

DeltaPunch: WhyteRaven74: DeltaPunch: "supersymmetry: all very cool ideas that offer no falsifiable hypotheses"

And that isn't exactly correct either.

As a particle physicist, my mind was being blown by the general inaccuracy of all those statements listed above. ;)


Actually, question!

I'm a nanophysicist (welll, almost? Grad student, not sure if that 'counts'. Passed quals, hopefully only two years left!)

I realize you're not necessarily a theorist, but is string theory still (mostly) unfalsifiable, or, uh, is it still just pretty math wankery that should be called "string hypothesis" or "String conjecture"?

I do recall hearing there's one method that would *confirm* it (looking for black holes that are evaporating, it had something to do with the fact that if small, curled-up dimensions existed, they could alter how the black hole behaved in the very last instances of its life), the only problem being that to *look* for this would require the existence of as-of-yet-unfound 'Primordial' black holes that might have formed shortly after the big bang... since all star-based black holes won't fully evaporate for another few trillion years or so?
/I might be misremembering that part.
//Still get mildly frustrated when Brian Greene presents things like String Theory and alternate universes as if they've been found/confirmed, just 'cause the math works out....
 
2013-01-03 01:10:14 PM

WhyteRaven74: And it works beautifully just so long as you keep it way the hell away from quantum mechanics.


It's also good to keep new-age mystics the hell away from q-mech, as well.

/Sadly, Deepak Chopra shows we have already failed at this.
 
2013-01-03 01:12:22 PM
bosons, bozos Who can say?
 
2013-01-03 01:13:01 PM

WhyteRaven74:

And it works beautifully just so long as you keep it way the hell away from quantum mechanics.


That is only true from a theoretical standpoint. Because we do not measure space in terms of quanta, and QM lacks an analogous singularity, the maths aren't really useful across the two domains. Neither is a Theory of Everything.

It is akin to saying airplanes work perfectly well until you try to fly them underwater.
 
2013-01-03 01:55:16 PM
Um... TFA realizes that to study any of the properties of the particle or its interactions, we'll need to keep the equipment running to create the particles, yeah?
 
2013-01-03 02:55:11 PM

DeltaPunch: As a particle physicist, my mind was being blown by the general inaccuracy of all those statements listed above. ;)


As an engineer, what can we expect to be making with these new findings?
 
2013-01-03 03:13:26 PM
Did anyone petitioned to close the patent office yet?

/True story, happened before. A l-o-n-g time ago.
 
2013-01-03 03:18:13 PM

inglixthemad: -- Academician Prokhor Zakharov, "For I Have Tasted The Fruit"


"A brave little theory, and actually quite coherent for a system of five or seven dimensions - if only we lived in one."
-- Academician Prokhor Zakharov, "Now We Are Alone"

ReverendLoki: Hey now, this is clearly a physics thread. We'll have none of your chemistry humor here.


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2013-01-03 03:18:38 PM

internut scholar: DeltaPunch: As a particle physicist, my mind was being blown by the general inaccuracy of all those statements listed above. ;)

As an engineer, what can we expect to be making with these new findings?


Nothing of practical value, directly from the particles themselves. However, collaborations often make a ton of progress in simulations, accelerator/beam sciences, computing, research techniques, "hard science" software, etc. E.g. a mostly German group is leading the push for analysis of particle data through a computational neural network system, (which currently most other scientists scratching their heads). I suppose some real value could come from this one day, with applications in other fields.
 
2013-01-03 03:37:38 PM
Any article that uses the phrase "the God Particle" gets an automatic 30% deduction for perpetuating stupidity.
 
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