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(Fox 2 St. Louis)   News: Denny's manager turns away five men with sidearms, explaining they could not eat at the restaurant if they were armed. FARK: They were on-duty, badge-wearing police detectives   (fox2now.com) divider line 358
    More: Obvious, Denny's, Belleville, Belleville Police, badges, detectives, managers  
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10536 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jan 2013 at 8:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-03 09:03:21 AM
Ah, it's always fun to see the town I live in, and the Denny's down the street from my house, make Fark.

What's incredibly farking stupid about this situation is that the Denny's is less than a mile from the police station and the courthouse. Cops have been eating there for decades. And you'd think that you'd want uniformed and armed officers frequenting your place of business when you're open 24 hours and just 10 minutes down the road from East St. Louis.
 
2013-01-03 09:03:50 AM

Mrbogey: Well what would have happened if another diner decided to grab their gun? A shootout would occur and people might get shot.

It's just not worth it. Common sense people. C'mon.


Because we all know that if a cop is there with a gun, everyone is perfectly safe.

Seems to me a local store owner decided who can come into his place of business. Why do you hate small business / job creators?
 
2013-01-03 09:04:34 AM

freetomato: I used to be a graveyard shift waitress at the 2nd busiest (at the time) Denny's in CA back when I was a youngun.  It was a veritable freakshow between 2 am and 7 am.  I can tell some seriously nightmarish customer stories.  I used to love when the cops came in.  If they were still there when I got off my shift, they'd walk me to my car to make sure I got there safely.  Good tippers too.


There is a Waffle House here that is like that. I stop in once in awhile around 3-4am, it looks like the Afterlife Waiting Room from Beetlejuice.
 
2013-01-03 09:05:04 AM
Hero tag?
 
2013-01-03 09:05:06 AM
Belleville Police Captain Don Sax said, "It's absolutely a slap in the face I totally agree it's completely disrespectful. How can anyone think to tell a police officer you can't be in here with your gun its absurd to me."

Captain Sax said, "I've never known anybody that didn't want a police officer present in an establishment in a business it's added security it's absolutely what they want."

Captain Sax added, "They had been harassed enough they have been embarrassed more than enough."


Captain Sax further added, "I'm not sure what's happening to me I can't stop speaking in continuous run-on sentences it may be a stroke please call for help."
 
2013-01-03 09:05:08 AM

here to help: Cops are terrible customers... especially in packs


After RTFA your comment seems most appropriate. The first employee asked them to take their weapons outside before knowing they were police. Second employee tried to make amends, but the detectives decided to be dicks about it.
 
2013-01-03 09:05:19 AM
Can we establish minimum standards for the "Not News, News, Fark" thing?

"Denny's manager turns away men with guns," doesn't seem newsworthy to me. Maybe:

"Boring: Denny's manager turns away men with guns. Interesting: Men were on duty, uniformed police officers." or

"Small Town, Red State News: Denny's manager turns away men with guns. Fark: Men were on duty, uniformed police officers."

But the "Not News..." thing only works if the story actually escalates to a funny/absurd level. Escalating from "boring" to "interesting" isn't enough.

Good example:
Not News: Senator cheats on wife. News: Using taxpayer funds for romantic vacations. Fark: "Other woman" was actually his pet frog.)
 
2013-01-03 09:05:30 AM
I like the attitude that the cops can and should just completely neglect their sworn duties to protect the public because someone hurt their widdle feewings.
 
2013-01-03 09:05:55 AM

Buffalo77: Here's your test to tell whether you are an idiot.

Scenario: 9/11, planes flying into bldg. America doesn't know how many other planes out there are potential missiles.

You look up and see several F-15s patrolling the skies around NYC.

If you are scared at that sight, you are an idiot.


Thanks for that. I now have you favorited as "Indescribable Idiocy".
 
2013-01-03 09:06:09 AM

ParaHandy: Right of free association.


I believe you mean freedom of association. Doesn't apply here. Private property laws and such about carrying firearms would apply, though police officers are legally exempted from any laws or bans on firearms in various places (as are voluntary reserve officers and other select people), so it gets iffy.

The manager of the restaurant could deny service, but based on this article, that's not a guarantee that he's within his rights.

Technically speaking, the property owner would have to make such a denial of service or put in place a policy covering this, so, I'm not sure the manager has the right to make such a policy on the fly. Either way, the article states that the company apologized and stated there was no such policy.
 
2013-01-03 09:06:22 AM

here to help: Cops are terrible customers... especially in packs at bars. Gangbangers are more well behaved.


One of the best bits of advice I ever got was "If you are in a bar, and a group of off duty cops come in, pay your bill and leave asap." God help you if you stay and are with an attractive woman.
 
2013-01-03 09:06:31 AM
So what?
 
2013-01-03 09:07:35 AM

here to help: I like the attitude that the cops can and should just completely neglect their sworn duties to protect the public because someone hurt their widdle feewings.


Wait, I thought the public should be protecting themselves with automatic firearms. What do we need the cops for?
 
2013-01-03 09:07:40 AM

ParaHandy: Solty Dog: Next time use the drive shoot through.


now you're just trolling.
 
2013-01-03 09:07:58 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Most places don't let armed gang members in.


I dont care if theyre armed....i just dont want them wearing their colors.

/colors colors colors
 
2013-01-03 09:08:25 AM
This whole kicking out people openly carrying reeks of nothing but irrational fear.

Has there been any real incidents of citizens openly carrying and causing any kind of problems? If so, are there enough to warrant kicking out anyone carrying a gun just because you see it?

Last I checked, few robbers or other criminals come into a place with guns in holsters and just sit down like regular customers.
 
2013-01-03 09:08:30 AM

DECMATH: here to help: Cops are terrible customers... especially in packs

After RTFA your comment seems most appropriate. The first employee asked them to take their weapons outside before knowing they were police. Second employee tried to make amends, but the detectives decided to be dicks about it.


Yup. Worship us or we will exact revenge.
I don't hate all cops but quite a few sure make it hard to like them.
 
2013-01-03 09:08:32 AM

phrawgh: Denny's serves donuts?


Win!
 
2013-01-03 09:08:34 AM
Being Denny's I'm going to assume these detectives were all black.
 
2013-01-03 09:09:29 AM

sloshed_again: Everyone should carry a gun in Bellevile.


A lot of people do!

It's an old town that's on a downhill slide. As much as I love my house, it's hard to love the community considering that crime is a big problem thanks to our proximity to East St. Louis. Plus, taxes keep going up, property values keep decreasing and a good third of the houses in my neighborhood are vacant because the people living in them defaulted on their mortgages.
 
2013-01-03 09:09:30 AM
And its not like cops are ever overzealous or anything.
 
2013-01-03 09:11:02 AM
In other news, that Denny's sees an increase in armed robberies.
 
2013-01-03 09:11:37 AM

mayIFark: Wait, I thought the public should be protecting themselves with automatic firearms. What do we need the cops for?


If the cops did their jobs in a helpful, thoughtful and respectful way then people wouldn't have to worry so much about self defense.

Same goes for the entire criminal justice system. They create more anti social behavior than they prevent.
 
2013-01-03 09:12:03 AM

mayIFark: here to help: I like the attitude that the cops can and should just completely neglect their sworn duties to protect the public because someone hurt their widdle feewings.

Wait, I thought the public should be protecting themselves with automatic firearms. What do we need the cops for?


The police are not required to protect the individual, as has been ruled repeatedly by the Supreme Court. The Police exist to protect society by investigating crimes that have been committed and identifying the perpetrators in order to prosecute and remove them from society. See the following:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=disp l ay_arch&article_id=341&issue_id=72004
http://overlawyered.com/2011/12/the-police-have-no-obligation-to-prot e ct-you-yes-really/

It is the responsibility of the citizen to defend themselves from immediate harm. It is the responsibility of the police to arrest the asstard (or pick up the body) after the fact. So it goes.
 
2013-01-03 09:12:22 AM

JackieRabbit: Denny's: "Hello, Police? We have an armed robbery in progress! PLease come quickly!"


Police: Your credit card number and last four of social security number please.

Dennys: What?

Police: "Yeah, about that... We're pretty backed up just now. We'll get there when we can. In the meantime, please tell the perps that guns are not allowed in Denny's. That's should take care of it."


/Conservative perfect world of no entitlement program
 
2013-01-03 09:12:31 AM

fireclown: Were the officers black?


The it would have been 'Not News'.
 
2013-01-03 09:12:36 AM

pedrop357: This whole kicking out people openly carrying reeks of nothing but irrational fear.

Has there been any real incidents of citizens openly carrying and causing any kind of problems? If so, are there enough to warrant kicking out anyone carrying a gun just because you see it?

Last I checked, few robbers or other criminals come into a place with guns in holsters and just sit down like regular customers.


No, but there are an abundance of incidents involving police using unnecessary force, including guns when they're not warranted.
 
2013-01-03 09:13:12 AM

Kit Fister: Private property laws and such about carrying firearms would apply, though police officers are legally exempted from any laws or bans on firearms in various places (as are voluntary reserve officers and other select people), so it gets iffy.


Not always. I would be exempt during the execution of my duties. Having lunch does not fall into that category even on duty.

Responding there for a call? Yes
Ordering the Lumberjack Slam? No
 
2013-01-03 09:13:25 AM
If anything, I bet the police response times to service calls at this Denny's will be faster than before. They'd look pretty bad to the locals if they seemed like they were holding a grudge.
 
2013-01-03 09:13:57 AM

here to help: mayIFark: Wait, I thought the public should be protecting themselves with automatic firearms. What do we need the cops for?

If the cops did their jobs in a helpful, thoughtful and respectful way then people wouldn't have to worry so much about self defense.

Same goes for the entire criminal justice system. They create more anti social behavior than they prevent.


You said it. Thank you.
 
2013-01-03 09:13:59 AM

JonnyG: Good. 5 officers wearing guns and uniforms into a restaurant is an intimidation technique. I would not feel comfortable eating my meal next to 5 power tripping loose cannons. The entire atmosphere of a place changes when cops walk through the door and it's not because everyone thinks heroes have just arrived.


I kind of feel the same way. Having grown up in a gun free culture, open carry by anyone makes me very uncomfortable. I've had to face down a pair of APD cops who wanted to illegally enter my home once, stretched my arms out across the doorway but was careful not to touch them.

I fear cops more than gang bangers - at least if a gang banger shoots a middle class white guy, he gets prosecuted.
 
2013-01-03 09:14:57 AM

The Muthaship: If anything, I bet the police response times to service calls at this Denny's will be faster than before. They'd look pretty bad to the locals if they seemed like they were holding a grudge.


You act as though they don't seem this way to begin with.
 
2013-01-03 09:15:50 AM
Minor confusion regarding store policy from a minimum wage making assistant manager in a third rate chain restaurant in some backwater 'burg somewhere in middle America. This happens literally every day, but because firearms are involved it will become an event of special interest for those who feel strongly about the subject.

I'd make the cops leave their guns in the patrol car, too, but that's just because I like messing with cops.
 
2013-01-03 09:15:53 AM

phrawgh: Denny's serves donuts?

thefrugalgirls.com
 
2013-01-03 09:16:17 AM

ko_kyi: here to help: Cops are terrible customers... especially in packs at bars. Gangbangers are more well behaved.

One of the best bits of advice I ever got was "If you are in a bar, and a group of off duty cops come in, pay your bill and leave asap." God help you if you stay and are with an attractive woman.


Yes. I've seen many bars completely clear out as soon as the po po show up... and not just seedy dives. Places filled with law abiding professionals.

It's just not worth the risk. It truly is pathetic that the "good" guys terrify the general public as much as the "bad" guys.
 
2013-01-03 09:17:14 AM
You're suppose to do what ever the military tells you, stupid. If they want to eat, let them eat
 
2013-01-03 09:17:32 AM

Kit Fister: mayIFark: here to help: I like the attitude that the cops can and should just completely neglect their sworn duties to protect the public because someone hurt their widdle feewings.

Wait, I thought the public should be protecting themselves with automatic firearms. What do we need the cops for?

The police are not required to protect the individual, as has been ruled repeatedly by the Supreme Court. The Police exist to protect society by investigating crimes that have been committed and identifying the perpetrators in order to prosecute and remove them from society. See the following:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html?_r=0
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=disp l ay_arch&article_id=341&issue_id=72004
http://overlawyered.com/2011/12/the-police-have-no-obligation-to-prot e ct-you-yes-really/

It is the responsibility of the citizen to defend themselves from immediate harm. It is the responsibility of the police to arrest the asstard (or pick up the body) after the fact. So it goes.


This is actually news to me. In other words, they are really all detectives and prosecutors? Something is missing here. I think that clause is there to prevent any lawsuit that cops failed to prevent a crime.
 
2013-01-03 09:17:33 AM
here to help: ko_kyi: here to help: Cops are terrible customers... especially in packs at bars. Gangbangers are more well behaved.

One of the best bits of advice I ever got was "If you are in a bar, and a group of off duty cops come in, pay your bill and leave asap." God help you if you stay and are with an attractive woman.

Yes. I've seen many bars completely clear out as soon as the po po show up... and not just seedy dives. Places filled with law abiding professionals.

It's just not worth the risk. It truly is pathetic that the "good" guys terrify the general public as much as more than the "bad" guys.

FTFeveryone
 
2013-01-03 09:17:33 AM

The Muthaship: ramblinwreck: Why were the detectives so butt-hurt over being denied service?

Really? They were asked to leave for a bullsh*t reason, and they left. If I got asked to leave an establishment for a bullsh*t reason, I'd be unlikely to return also.

Do you think this is the first time an armed police officer has been served at this Denny's?

You are right though. Denny's can deny them service if they want. Nothing requires them to serve guests who are armed.


Well, I heard that guns make every situation more dangerous, so can you blame him?

Cops guns do seem to shoot a whole lot of people.
 
2013-01-03 09:17:35 AM

JonnyG: You act as though they don't seem this way to begin with.


I know how you feel about cops in general, you've made that clear enough.

I don't know how the locals feel about the cops in Bellville or wherever this was. Seems from the article that they have some community support. That is valuable to law enforcement.
 
2013-01-03 09:17:53 AM

JonnyG: pedrop357:
No, but there are an abundance of incidents involving police using unnecessary force, including guns when they're not warranted.


Came to say pretty much this - maybe the manager realized armed cops are dangerous...
 
2013-01-03 09:18:35 AM
On the one hand, there's the stupid, overzealous manager who ultimately apologized.

On the other hand, there's immature, power-trip loving cops who just can't believe that a restuarant manager had the gall to question their authority.

I feel like the mature thing to do here is for the manager and Denny's to apologize for the misunderstanding, and for the cops to graciously accept the apology. Instead, we have this stupid, childish bullshiat story to read.
 
2013-01-03 09:19:53 AM
Why does Subby hate private property rights?
 
2013-01-03 09:20:36 AM

ramblinwreck: "Full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."

Nope, don't see firearms on that list.


I also don't see where on that list Denny's is forced to serve them.
 
2013-01-03 09:20:51 AM
Local Denny's manager is no rocket scientist. Film at 11.
 
2013-01-03 09:21:44 AM

fireclown: black


If they were they'd have been robbing the place, not eating there.
 
2013-01-03 09:23:01 AM
This is what started the whole mess.

FTA
The restaurant chain said a customer spotted one of the officers carrying a gun and alerted the manager.

And this makes the whole thing even sillier.

FTA
Sax said the police had their badges in full view, either by their handguns or they were wearing them around their necks. Plus, portable police radios were on the table.

I bet you this was an attention whore customer that reported this and went into a fake panic attack because of the gun, despite badges and service radios being in full view, and the first manager was just trying to calm everything down by telling the cops to put their guns in the car or leave, when he should have told the customer that they were cops and to STFU or leave.
 
2013-01-03 09:23:36 AM

EngineerAU: RTFA. Denny's is fine with law enforcement officers bringing weapons with them. The night manager messed up and another manager tried to make the situation right but the detectives had their feelings hurt. The night manager needs to learn company policy better and the detectives need to take off their panties and get over it.


I'm guessing the night manager at a Denny's isn't going to be the smartest cat in the world and have the greatest grasp of the Denny's policy book. I don't buy that 5 detectives had their feelings hurt and were embarrassed by a Denny's employee asking them to leave. Detectives are normally experienced officers and have training on being assertive. I've seen a cop nearly arrest a someone at a workplace because that person asked the cop to move out of the way of a forklift, the cop asked if he was interfering with his investigation. The person had 0 personal/professional skills and told more than ask, but still the cop didn't get his feelings hurt.

JonnyG: Good. 5 officers wearing guns and uniforms into a restaurant is an intimidation technique. I would not feel comfortable eating my meal next to 5 power tripping loose cannons. The entire atmosphere of a place changes when cops walk through the door and it's not because everyone thinks heroes have just arrived.


If your behavior at a Denny's changes because police sit down for a meal you may want to rethink behaving that way public regardless of a police presence.
 
2013-01-03 09:26:45 AM

mayIFark: This is actually news to me. In other words, they are really all detectives and prosecutors? Something is missing here. I think that clause is there to prevent any lawsuit that cops failed to prevent a crime.


No, uniformed officers are there to provide a public show of force to deter crimes, they also are there to enforce laws through patrols, and respond to complaints and investigate. They are not there to act as personal bodyguards.
 
2013-01-03 09:26:46 AM
This is a natural reaction to the police telling everyone to be terrified by people with guns. The gun control propaganda means people don't want you around.
 
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