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(Daily Mail)   Actual headline: Sister, 19, accidentally shoots dead brother in the head while posing with gun for Facebook picture   (dailymail.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Fail, gang signal, Roman Abramovich, Qatari, humanitarian aid, Hugo Chavez, brother in the head, Kathy Griffin  
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27727 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jan 2013 at 1:07 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-03 07:01:10 AM  

orbister: The gun must always be pointing at something, surely?


"Can't afford to shoot" is how I'd heard it. Yeah the muzzle is always going to point somewhere, but choosing potential targets to minimize risk isn't hard.

But being pedantic is great as long as you also understand the underlying meaning of those words upon which you prey.
 
2013-01-03 07:04:29 AM  
Did this change the rotational speed of the Earth? If not,then I'm not interested.
 
2013-01-03 07:06:57 AM  
And nothing of value was lost.
 
2013-01-03 07:08:17 AM  

orbister: iron_city_ap: Never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot

The gun must always be pointing at something, surely?


Should probably be worded as "something that you aren't OK with getting shot" for full logical correctness, but one of the other lessons of gun safety is that if you're carrying the gun, you are responsible for anything the gun does. There aren't "accidents" and "the gun" doesn't do anything, if you're carrying a weapon and a bullet goes from it to somewhere a bullet's not supposed to go, it is your fault.

So the clauses are intentionally worded in the active voice to impress this on the listener.

//Rhetoric 101 for ya, there.
 
2013-01-03 07:19:14 AM  
Guns make you safe.
 
2013-01-03 07:20:04 AM  
Authorities are looking into who owns the gun

I didn't think this was going to turn out to be a legal firearm.
 
2013-01-03 07:27:05 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: Authorities are looking into who owns the gun

I didn't think this was going to turn out to be a legal firearm.


Glad to see I'm not the only one interested in the provenance of the gun.
 
2013-01-03 07:27:58 AM  

mamoru: Every time a story like this comes up, I hate how they are called accidents. Since the answer to these three questions is almost certainly "yes", it should be classified as some form of homicide (at least manslaughter, if not some degree of murder) and prosecuted accordingly: was the gun loaded? was the gun pointed at the victim? was the shooter's finger on the trigger?

Given the basic rules of firearms safety, answering yes to those questions should show intent, IMNSHO, even though what it usually shows is stupidity and ignorance.


This sort of thing seems the exact sort of thing anticipated by the people who came up with the term "criminal negligence".
 
2013-01-03 07:32:36 AM  

CujoQuarrel: Rule 1: You don't play with guns. Ever. They are not toys.


So much this. I got safety instruction when I first shot at a range; before that I was ignorant of guns. But I still knew you don't point one at people (unless you're going to shoot them). EVER. Should be freakin' common sense. Even if you don't know about rounds in the chamber, keeping your finger off the trigger until the moment you shoot, etc., there's one thing that even the stupidest should able to grasp:

IT IS A DEADLY WEAPON
therefore
IT IS NOT A TOY
 
2013-01-03 07:39:17 AM  

Xaneidolon: Glad to see I'm not the only one interested in the provenance of the gun.


I was scrolling through the thread and it was all "safety class" this and "responsible gun owner" that but then I realized I don't remember them talking about how they got this gun. Figured it wasn't through legal means.
 
2013-01-03 07:39:48 AM  
Yes! Daily gun control thread! Whooooooooooo! Just think of this poor victim, he was so young and had so much to live for, them his sister shot him in the head.
 
2013-01-03 07:42:47 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Guns make you safe.


Guns let you put bullets in things.
 
2013-01-03 07:44:50 AM  

LewDux: If only she held the gun at facebookMyspace angle..

fixed

 
2013-01-03 07:46:30 AM  
More of these types of accidents should happen to those kinds of people, god knows the world would be a much better place.
 
2013-01-03 07:47:29 AM  

Lsherm: I'm going to go way out on a limb and suggest that this family hasn't gone through a safety course.


Also notice how that poor man is suffering from arthritis in his left hand.
 
2013-01-03 07:48:19 AM  

Jim_Callahan: orbister: iron_city_ap: Never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot

The gun must always be pointing at something, surely?

Should probably be worded as "something that you aren't OK with getting shot" for full logical correctness, but one of the other lessons of gun safety is that if you're carrying the gun, you are responsible for anything the gun does. There aren't "accidents" and "the gun" doesn't do anything, if you're carrying a weapon and a bullet goes from it to somewhere a bullet's not supposed to go, it is your fault.

So the clauses are intentionally worded in the active voice to impress this on the listener.

//Rhetoric 101 for ya, there.


Simple rules are easier to remember.
"Don't point at that" goes further than a five minute lecture about why floors, ceilings, and backstops are less valuable than humans.

/Its not difficult to learn how to handle a gun expertly.
/It IS difficult to fight against decades of bad influence from movies and TV shows.
/Many People involved in accidents didn't learn how to handle a gun from the NRA or any instructor.
/They learned it by watching some twit of an actor as he waved around unloaded props.
 
2013-01-03 07:50:12 AM  

MisterRonbo: 25 years ago, I lived in a ticky tacky little apartment building. The apartment next to me was occipied by a nice kid who had just become a deputy sheriff, and his very, very smokin' hot, very, very airhead girfriend (bonus: her name was actually Tara).

We all became friendly, playing cards, he'd be working and I'd drive her and the other waitresses she worked with to the club, make sure nobody bothered them. All good.

One day she calls me up, middle of a weekday. Says she's making lunch, I should come over and hang out. Sure, why not, we're friends.

I walk in, and she's pointing a 30.06 rifle at me. It was her boyfriend's, she thought it would be funny. Without thinking, I grab it, very hard, and well, she got whacked in the head very, very hard by the stock. She was crying and mad and pretty pissed off. I was...indifferent.

She called her boyfriend the deputy sheriff, who proceeded to chew her out and really, really get her crying. I could hear him through the receiver in the phone. Then I guess he told her to give me the phone, where upon he and I proceeded to apologize to each other. "I'm sorry for whacking your girlfriend in the head with your rifle." "No, she deserved it, good lesson, so sorry she did that." "Yeah, I kinda came close to soiling myself there, I don't like guns pointed at me." etc.

They broke up soon after, though I would like to think that was a symptom not a cause.


You slept with her?
 
2013-01-03 07:54:20 AM  
No, she accidentally exercised her God-given Second Amendment rights. Stupid liburl-slanted headlines.
 
2013-01-03 07:56:31 AM  

Phony_Soldier: They say "sister", but I'm just wondering in what way "sister" is being used? Are they really related?


Hard to say. Her Face book says he relationship status is "complicated"
 
2013-01-03 07:58:56 AM  
heatherosborne.speculative-fiction.ca

At least she didn't shoot her dead patient.

/Cuddy: I can't even imagine the backward logic you used to rationalize shooting a corpse.
//House: Well, if I shot a live person, there's a lot more paperwork.
 
2013-01-03 08:02:24 AM  
Funny thing here is that the dues paying Farktards finally get to see what a true gun nut looks like and they don't recognize one.
 
2013-01-03 08:02:31 AM  
Wow. The pictures provide us with a shining example of upstanding citizens with bright futures. What a shame!
 
2013-01-03 08:06:35 AM  
Some problems are self-solving.
 
2013-01-03 08:12:45 AM  

david_gaithersburg: Funny thing here is that the dues paying Farktards finally get to see what a true gun nut looks like and they don't recognize one.


The unfunny thing here is all the racists running into the thread with hate boners screaming "SEE!! TEH MINORITIES AND 0BAMBALAMBA!!1"

Seriously, shut up.
 
2013-01-03 08:16:20 AM  

mikaloyd: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 306x423]


You ever wonder why the Phoenix sheriff acts like he does?




/God help us, that picture is so full of fail and derp that i can't even begin to comprehend it.
 
2013-01-03 08:17:45 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: I was scrolling through the thread and it was all "safety class" this and "responsible gun owner" that but then I realized I don't remember them talking about how they got this gun. Figured it wasn't through legal means.


Cops are always happy to prosecute people for having guns illegally, if that's the case. I didn't see the charges, so I assumed that it wasn't the case. Do you have evidence that these guns were obtained illegally? The brother was 22, so absent any prohibiting condition would be able to legally obtain both pistols and long arms. The sister was 19, so even she would be legally able to buy long arms. Sure, they were both idiots, but until legally deemed so, their rights to keep and bear arms cannot be arbitrarily revoked.
 
2013-01-03 08:24:48 AM  

hundreddollarman: Is it really that surprising that gun violence in the U.S. went way up once more minorities started buying guns?


It didn't. Gun crime, like all violent crime, has been on the decline in the U.S. for more than two decades.
 
2013-01-03 08:26:48 AM  

Quasar: And little nothing of value was lost.


FTFY
 
2013-01-03 08:29:09 AM  

here to help: david_gaithersburg: Funny thing here is that the dues paying Farktards finally get to see what a true gun nut looks like and they don't recognize one.

The unfunny thing here is all the racists running into the thread with hate boners screaming "SEE!! TEH MINORITIES AND 0BAMBALAMBA!!1"

Seriously, shut up.


.
Dude, seek help, and some reading courses probably wouldn't hurt either.
 
2013-01-03 08:35:23 AM  
I guess she thought she was professional enough to have a semiautomatic pistol.

That cop that shot himself reversed the order of eject magazine, cycle action to pop the round in the chamber.
 
2013-01-03 08:36:59 AM  

aerojockey: Kimothy: Is it still Darwin-award worthy if the shooter doesn't die?

Not eligible for Darwin award, no, but a case could be made that this does help human evolution.  She prevented her brother from reproducing, and her brother shares some of her DNA, so she did, indirectly, prevent similar DNA to hers from being passed on.  So no Darwin award but she might deserve an honorable mention.


One would hope her appearance will stop her from reproducing

/ and she looks like a lezzie anyway
 
2013-01-03 08:37:29 AM  

david_gaithersburg: Dude, seek help, and some reading courses probably wouldn't hurt either.


Your initial post was an attack on Obama and while you didn't come right out and say anything racist we all know what "Obama Voter" means to the right. Take your dog whistles cram 'em up your arse.

However there were MANY other overtly racist comments so I think my reading skills are just fine. As far as my mental health... well at least I'm not a blithering xenophobic troll who sh*ts on Fark threads day in and day out so at least I've got that going for me.
 
2013-01-03 08:38:35 AM  
If only she had shot an unarmed black kid, then the whole Fark gun nut brigade would be white knighting her.

Looks like the world has one less Zimmerman, go Darwin!
 
2013-01-03 08:39:42 AM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-01-03 08:41:24 AM  
Darwin won this one.
 
2013-01-03 08:42:27 AM  

mamoru: Darth_Lukecash: The most dangerous gun is an unloaded gun.

Screw that. She should be charged with manslaughter anyway.


Let's not forget to charge the knucklehead who gave her the gun in the first place. If with nothing more than reckless endangerment.

iron_city_ap: Plus the lack of muzzle discipline. Never point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot and don't put your finger on the trigger till you are ready to shoot. And always treat a gun as if its loaded. Simple common sense.


It's NOT common sense. I know it because my father taught me. There are training courses because it's not common sense.
 
d23 [BareFark]
2013-01-03 08:43:33 AM  

liam76: Quasar: And little nothing of value was lost.

FTFY


While I feel sorry for the kid's parents, this is OH so true.
 
2013-01-03 08:45:39 AM  

mikaloyd: [i.dailymail.co.uk image 306x423]


You ever wonder why the Phoenix sheriff acts like he does?


Because two wrongs some how make it right using your math.
 
2013-01-03 08:48:40 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Why do people wear hats with other cities' names on them? Seriously, is any city more different city away from Chicago than Pheonix?


Gang colors
 
2013-01-03 08:50:18 AM  

stevarooni: Cops are always happy to prosecute people for having guns illegally, if that's the case. I didn't see the charges, so I assumed that it wasn't the case. Do you have evidence that these guns were obtained illegally? The brother was 22, so absent any prohibiting condition would be able to legally obtain both pistols and long arms. The sister was 19, so even she would be legally able to buy long arms. Sure, they were both idiots, but until legally deemed so, their rights to keep and bear arms cannot be arbitrarily revoked.


FTA, they were searching to find out who was the owner of the firearm so reasonable conclusion would say it wasn't his right?
 
2013-01-03 08:54:40 AM  

maram500: Dimensio: Snargi: Even drunk, I check to see of the piece is unloaded, or at least unchambered, before I do stupid stuff with it.

I refuse to touch any firearm (unless secured entirely within a case, and only if moving the cased firearm to a secure location) within six hours of consuming any alcoholic beverage.

I apply the same self-restriction to operation of a motor vehicle.

You're fun at parties aren't you?


I do not attend parties. I experience discomfort amongst large crowds of people.

/Crowds of children can induce a panic attack.
 
2013-01-03 08:57:57 AM  

Tat'dGreaser: FTA, they were searching to find out who was the owner of the firearm so reasonable conclusion would say it wasn't his right?


Nope, that's begging the question. They're looking into it means that it wasn't readily knowable who owned it. They don't know. Might be that they find the receipt in his precisely-kept records, clearly marked, "Gun receipts", or they might have to comb through a nasty pile of paperwork and Pringles™ canisters to come up with a moldy, sticky half-faded receipt. Arizona is one of the many states that doesn't require gun registration or a permit to buy a gun.
 
2013-01-03 09:07:49 AM  
Gangsta Style.
 
2013-01-03 09:17:20 AM  

stevarooni: Tat'dGreaser: FTA, they were searching to find out who was the owner of the firearm so reasonable conclusion would say it wasn't his right?

Nope, that's begging the question. They're looking into it means that it wasn't readily knowable who owned it. They don't know. Might be that they find the receipt in his precisely-kept records, clearly marked, "Gun receipts", or they might have to comb through a nasty pile of paperwork and Pringles™ canisters to come up with a moldy, sticky half-faded receipt. Arizona is one of the many states that doesn't require gun registration or a permit to buy a gun.


Therein lies the problem. It's almost as if the gun industry has a powerful lobbying group that makes sure the gun laws make it impossible to prosecute straw buyers.
 
2013-01-03 09:17:28 AM  
He was dead, so no harm no foul.
 
2013-01-03 09:19:39 AM  

ParaHandy: Therein lies the problem. It's almost as if the gun industry has a powerful lobbying group that makes sure the gun laws make it impossible to prosecute straw buyers.


Straw buyers? If he wasn't legally prohibited from owning a gun, someone else buying it for him wouldn't be a legally liable "straw buyer". Does that have pertinence to this situation, or is this just a gripe you have, in general?
 
2013-01-03 09:22:51 AM  

efgeise: mamoru: Darth_Lukecash: The most dangerous gun is an unloaded gun.

Indeed. If people just kept to the philosophy that there is no such thing as an unloaded gun and treat their guns accordingly, this kind of crap wouldn't happen.

Every time a story like this comes up, I hate how they are called accidents. Since the answer to these three questions is almost certainly "yes", it should be classified as some form of homicide (at least manslaughter, if not some degree of murder) and prosecuted accordingly: was the gun loaded? was the gun pointed at the victim? was the shooter's finger on the trigger?

Given the basic rules of firearms safety, answering yes to those questions should show intent, IMNSHO, even though what it usually shows is stupidity and ignorance.

From TFA: Phoenix Police Sgt Steve Martos said the victim's sister would likely be charged with manslaughter if tests conclude she had alcohol in her system.

Screw that. She should be charged with manslaughter anyway.

To be fair, it's actually very easy for a gun to be accidentally fired. A round could get lodged in the chamber and not get ejected. Or, better yet, you could get debris stuck in the barrel of a gun before shooting a blank. Look at what happened to Brandon Lee whilst filming The Crow.

I'm not saying that she shouldn't be charged with manslaughter, mind you. It's an accident in that it wasn't meant to happen. But the fact is that she was playing with a gun that wasn't visually inspected to not have a round in it, which is what should instantly make it manslaughter, alcohol or not.

As a note, whenever I pull out my bolt action rifle, for instance, I always take the bolt off and do a bore and magazine inspection. It's slightly harder for a semi-automatic pistol, a basic disassembly of a semi-automatic handgun (I'm talking slide removal, barrel inspection, and slide insertion) should take no more than 30 seconds if you're slow.


Whenever I handle a firearm, before even making eye contact with it (?), I boil my hands to ensure that there is no gunpowder rsidue on them. I then do a GSR test, and if it's positive I call the police on myself. If I pass, I get my reaching sticks and- over the course of a few hours- completely disassemble the weapon. I am always sure to keep each individual piece at least 12" from another so as not to encourage a negligent discharge from occuring. Lastly, in order to be completely safe, I melt the weapon down and turn it into either wind chimes or spinner rims. If you do less than that, if your safety standard is so low that you would actually handle a weapon, I know that one day you will shoot yourself in the head. I bet this guy didn't even do ONE pre-boil.
 
2013-01-03 09:33:13 AM  

ParaHandy: If only she had shot an unarmed black kid, then the whole Fark gun nut brigade would be white knighting her.

Looks like the world has one less Zimmerman, go Darwin!


Um....we are white knighting her. She's the awesome. The only thing she could have done better is to somehow have shot herself at the same time. Pretty sure her brother wasn't a neighborhood watch volunteer though...that was kind of weird. You crazy.
 
2013-01-03 09:38:19 AM  

Artisan Sandwich: Whenever I handle a firearm, before even making eye contact with it (?), I boil my hands to ensure that there is no gunpowder rsidue on them. I then do a GSR test, and if it's positive I call the police on myself. If I pass, I get my reaching sticks and- over the course of a few hours- completely disassemble the weapon. I am always sure to keep each individual piece at least 12" from another so as not to encourage a negligent discharge from occuring. Lastly, in order to be completely safe, I melt the weapon down and turn it into either wind chimes or spinner rims. If you do less than that, if your safety standard is so low that you would actually handle a weapon, I know that one day you will shoot yourself in the head. I bet this guy didn't even do ONE pre-boil.


Good call, people should be mocked for taking extra caution when handling a deadly weapon. He checks his weapons to make sure there isn't debris in the chamber which could cause a backfire, what a nancy!
 
2013-01-03 09:40:30 AM  

AbbeySomeone: MisterRonbo: 25 years ago, I lived in a ticky tacky little apartment building. The apartment next to me was occipied by a nice kid who had just become a deputy sheriff, and his very, very smokin' hot, very, very airhead girfriend (bonus: her name was actually Tara).

We all became friendly, playing cards, he'd be working and I'd drive her and the other waitresses she worked with to the club, make sure nobody bothered them. All good.

One day she calls me up, middle of a weekday. Says she's making lunch, I should come over and hang out. Sure, why not, we're friends.

I walk in, and she's pointing a 30.06 rifle at me. It was her boyfriend's, she thought it would be funny. Without thinking, I grab it, very hard, and well, she got whacked in the head very, very hard by the stock. She was crying and mad and pretty pissed off. I was...indifferent.

She called her boyfriend the deputy sheriff, who proceeded to chew her out and really, really get her crying. I could hear him through the receiver in the phone. Then I guess he told her to give me the phone, where upon he and I proceeded to apologize to each other. "I'm sorry for whacking your girlfriend in the head with your rifle." "No, she deserved it, good lesson, so sorry she did that." "Yeah, I kinda came close to soiling myself there, I don't like guns pointed at me." etc.

They broke up soon after, though I would like to think that was a symptom not a cause.

You slept with her?


Sweet evil Jesus I wish, she was gorgeous. But not my type - she had self-esteem.
 
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