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(BBC)   Switzerland no longer a safe gun-toting mecca   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 114
    More: Scary, Swiss Police, RTS, Daillon  
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14892 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Jan 2013 at 12:59 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-03 11:53:02 AM

phartman: The Lone Gunman: Well, in Switzerland everybody has a gun. So the NRA should do everything they can to make sure everybody has TWO guns.

And, just like in the US, the NRA has some recommended outlets where you can buy more guns,

GUNS!

(Yes, I know that Switzerland doesn't have an NRA)

Actually, we do.


I've gotten a lot of replies saying this. And I get that other countries would have organizations that would protect gun rights. I'm talking about extremity. Hell, even George Bush Sr quit the NRA because he felt they were too extreme and I believe that the NRA is more concerned with sales than with safety or security. Is the Swiss version of the NRA like this?
 
2013-01-03 11:56:02 AM

The Lone Gunman: phartman: The Lone Gunman: Well, in Switzerland everybody has a gun. So the NRA should do everything they can to make sure everybody has TWO guns.

And, just like in the US, the NRA has some recommended outlets where you can buy more guns,

GUNS!

(Yes, I know that Switzerland doesn't have an NRA)

Actually, we do.

I've gotten a lot of replies saying this. And I get that other countries would have organizations that would protect gun rights. I'm talking about extremity. Hell, even George Bush Sr quit the NRA because he felt they were too extreme and I believe that the NRA is more concerned with sales than with safety or security. Is the Swiss version of the NRA like this?


To be specific, George H.W. Bush said he agreed with most everything the NRA said. He famously quit them because he said they slandered federal law enforcement agents in one specific magazine article.
 
2013-01-03 11:56:14 AM

stevarooni: Maul555: Why is there always a knee-jerk reaction to re-examine our liberties every time a crazy goes all cray-cray?

It's not a cause, it's an opportunity, Maul.

You never let a serious crisis go to waste.
- Rahm Emanuel


unfortunately, you are mostly right
 
2013-01-03 11:58:39 AM

The Lone Gunman: I'm talking about extremity. Hell, even George Bush Sr quit the NRA because he felt they were too extreme and I believe that the NRA is more concerned with sales than with safety or security. Is the Swiss version of the NRA like this?


I doubt if George Bush Sr would be a member of the Swiss version of the NRA....

You have an idea of what gun rights should look like. The NRA promotes a different ideal. If you know the NRA, though, you know that they're a strong organization for safety and security...just not to the point of infringing on gun right to do so. They're very much about training, including teaching young kids to stay away from guns and contact an adult if they happen across them. What's your standard of safety and security?
 
2013-01-03 12:24:13 PM
Ok, let's bring some facts to the table.

The Swiss Army should have recuperated most of the ammunition it allows soldiers to keep at home very soon, Defence Minister Ueli Maurer has assured parliamentarians.
More than 240,000 boxes of bullets had been returned by the end of August, Maurer said on Monday. That is out of a maximum total of 257,000 boxes, according to estimates calculated in October 2007. The army should have the rest "in the weeks to come," he said.
The army does not expect to recuperate about 7,500 boxes, which were sent to recruitment schools and to those serving a long-term military career. Some 5,200 soldiers have not yet returned their ammunitions but digital records and cross referencing should clarify who has what, Maurer said.

Parliament demanded in 2007 that most of the ammunition sent home with soldiers be returned by the end of 2009.


Link

Want to buy ammo?

https://www.gunfactory.ch/div/bedingungen.htm

Regulations on buying ammo / weapons (Google Translate of regulations from above site below)?

Link

Sales mail
for Swiss citizens or
* Foreigners with Swiss C-card:
Federal conditions (using the terms) to acquire arms. For long and short arms, as well as gun parts (grips, barrel and slide parts) send us your valid Swiss Weapons Acquisition certificate and a photocopy of an official personal identity card (ID-CH, CH-CH C-card or passport)
We ship all supplies of ammunition, weapons or weapons parts inscribed by hand.

For ammunition and reloading components, the copy of an official personal identity card.
important:
If you're not yet known to us as a customer, please send us the following documents:
- Copy of official Swiss personnel identification (ID or passport)
and
- Copy of a Central Criminal-statement, not older than 3 months
- (Or a copy of a weapons purchase certificate, not older than 2 years)
- (Or a copy of a weapons carrier certificate, not older than 6 months)
- (Or copy of a current hunting Swiss passport)
- (Or a copy of a European firearms pass)

Article covering the proposed restrictions as well as storing military weapons in depots versus home.
Link

/..... so I am really getting a kick out of most of these replies
 
2013-01-03 12:36:17 PM

Ilmarinen: Mock26: So why would you want to punish 100 million people because every year a handful of legal gun owners commit a crime with their guns?

Have you considered that it might not be about punishing? That it might not be about you?


So you would then be absolutely, 100%, OK with the banning of alcohol because drunk drivers kill more people every year than people do with firearms? Hell, if that is your attitude then you should be actively pursuing a ban on all alcohol, right?

Also, it is a punishment. Anytime you limit the rights and/or put restrictions on a person BECAUSE OF WHAT SOMEONE ELSE DID it is a form of punishment. Taking away my right to own firearms (or even restricting my privilege if it were not a right) because of the actions of a few mentally disturbed people DOES make it about me.
 
2013-01-03 02:14:10 PM

DesktopHippie: In Cumbria, on the other hand, the guy shot his victims in different locations and then moved on.


It's almost like he planned it that way in order to maximize his effectiveness with weapons that might not let him stay in one place and still be effective...
 
2013-01-03 02:21:03 PM

topcon: To be specific, George H.W. Bush said he agreed with most everything the NRA said. He famously quit them because he said they slandered federal law enforcement agents in one specific magazine article.


It's not like he was a long-standing member of the NRA either: He signed up for a life membership when he was running for president in 1988, to get their endorsement. It cost him $500.

In other words, his joining the NRA wasn't because he had some life-long belief in gun rights, it was a calculated political move in order to gather votes, and a pretty cheap one at that.
 
2013-01-03 02:27:55 PM

The Lone Gunman: I believe that the NRA is more concerned with sales than with safety or security.


The NRA is a USER GROUP. The firearms industry group is the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF).

In fact, the NRA has been just fine with boycotts of firearms manufacturers. Like they were with Smith and Wesson, at the time the largest US manufacturer of handguns, because they had signed a deal with the Clinton administration.

Right now, there are rumbles among the NRA membership about a boycott of Dicks Sporting Goods, a major firearms retailer, because of their decision to stop carrying modern sporting rifles.

Hardly the actions of an organization that is more worried about firearms sales than anything else.
 
2013-01-03 03:29:11 PM

ArmagedDan: Then you haven't spoken to many gun owners. The gun culture in the United States - note I said gun culture, not criminal culture - is primarily concerned with gun safety and responsibility. Yes, really. It's kind of a big deal. And the big evil NRA is in fact a major player in promoting safety, responsibility, and training.


www.newscorpse.com

LOL

Oh and here's some real NRA ads

bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com

gaia.adage.com

t3.gstatic.com

www.gunreports.com

There's lots more...... Funny, I don't see anything there about being a safe and responsible gun owner. Just a lot of blustering about how everyone is trying to abridge your gun rights, and must be stopped. It seems that they're PRIMARILY concerned with fear-mongering and urging everyone to buy the products of the companies that probably give them lots of money. Because a scared and fully armed American seems to be the PRIMARY goal of the NRA.  What could go wrong??
 
2013-01-03 04:15:18 PM

cryinoutloud: There's lots more...... Funny, I don't see anything there about being a safe and responsible gun owner. Just a lot of blustering about how everyone is trying to abridge your gun rights, and must be stopped.


Given Obama's call for more gun control, just after the election and even before he starts his second term, it sort of makes the NRA look prophetic, doesn't it?

Not that it took a genius to see it: I was arguing on Fark at least 3 years ago that Obama wasn't likely to act on gun control until after he gets reelected, and I'm no genius.
 
2013-01-03 04:30:38 PM

dittybopper: The Lone Gunman: I believe that the NRA is more concerned with sales than with safety or security.

The NRA is a USER GROUP. The firearms industry group is the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF).

In fact, the NRA has been just fine with boycotts of firearms manufacturers. Like they were with Smith and Wesson, at the time the largest US manufacturer of handguns, because they had signed a deal with the Clinton administration.

Right now, there are rumbles among the NRA membership about a boycott of Dicks Sporting Goods, a major firearms retailer, because of their decision to stop carrying modern sporting rifles.

Hardly the actions of an organization that is more worried about firearms sales than anything else.


I'd be more convinced if Wayne LaPierre didn't spend so much time bragging about gun sales.

And I wouldn't say these are 'hardly the actions etc etc'. Rumblings are not action. Besides, I get that the NRA might be concerned about the government taking action against firearms and ammo, but I seriously doubt that a privately owned outlet's decision not selling a product that probably deems unprofitable infringes on anybody's right to do anything.
 
2013-01-03 06:56:22 PM

cryinoutloud: ArmagedDan: Then you haven't spoken to many gun owners. The gun culture in the United States - note I said gun culture, not criminal culture - is primarily concerned with gun safety and responsibility. Yes, really. It's kind of a big deal. And the big evil NRA is in fact a major player in promoting safety, responsibility, and training.



LOL

Oh and here's some real NRA ads









There's lots more...... Funny, I don't see anything there about being a safe and responsible gun owner. Just a lot of blustering about how everyone is trying to abridge your gun rights, and must be stopped. It seems that they're PRIMARILY concerned with fear-mongering and urging everyone to buy the products of the companies that probably give them lots of money. Because a scared and fully armed American seems to be the PRIMARY goal of the NRA.  What could go wrong??


As a member who gets all their spam, I definitely agree that they've been pounding on the NoBama drum waaay too hard. It was my #1 complaint about them up until they grossly mishandled their response to Sandy Hook.

So you've posted some pictures from their don't-like-Obama blitz. How does that "prove" that they don't deal in gun safety? They're a big organization. That's like saying the US goverment doesn't handle mail, because they debate on taxes.

And whatEVER the NRA does, anyway, it doesn't change the grassroots US firearm culture and its serious focus on safety and responsibility.
 
2013-01-04 04:06:14 PM

dittybopper: DesktopHippie: In Cumbria, on the other hand, the guy shot his victims in different locations and then moved on.

It's almost like he planned it that way in order to maximize his effectiveness with weapons that might not let him stay in one place and still be effective...


Well, yeah. He did. Cuz he couldn't just stand in one place and mow down everyone that came across him like the Hungerford guy.
 
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