FTA: But certainly in the case of Skyfall and The Avengers, you have a nearly identical structure- the villain purposely gets himself captured in act two, is put in a glass prison from which he taunts the heroes, then escapes to execute a plan...that didn't require him to be captured in the first place!

In Avengers, Loki got captured a) to divert attention from what mind-controlled Hawkeye was up to and b) so he could use his stick thingy to influence Banner into hulking out and smashing up the helicarrier. It wasn't a great plan, but it was a plan that required him to be captured.

Monologuing

calbert: because lazy writers and easily impressed audiences... who thought Skyfall was good.

I enjoyed skyfall, but was annoyed that the whole 2nd half of the movie was because Q sucked at IT

Ika7734: calbert: because lazy writers and easily impressed audiences... who thought Skyfall was good.

I enjoyed skyfall, but was annoyed that the whole 2nd half of the movie was because Q sucked at IT

I didn't hate it, but the writing was frustratingly lazy.

My main complaint is that it seems like they shoe-horned New Bond in to his role as old-man superspy just so they could play up his commiseration with M, probably because writing it some other way would have taken slightly more effort.

The conversation between Q and Bond, when Daniel Craig's Bond doesn't seem to realize that he's not Sean Connery's Bond (or even Brosnan's... they already did the "relic of the cold war" angle with him) and they throw in the crack about how out-of-his-element he is in a world where the pens aren't also one-man helicopters or sci-fi lasers or some bullshiat was especially out of place.

They couldn't even blame it on the relatively-recent transition from the Cold War, so the whole thing comes off as "you're a violent barbarian from another age--who somehow did fine throughout the 90s, apparently, but nevermind that--who is no longer needed now that we're engaged in a seemingly never-ending struggle against stateless extremists and proliferation of dangerous weapons... oh, wait."

fusillade762: Looks like this is a combination of Poisonous Captive, Get Into Jail Free and I Surrender, Suckers.

TVTropes always comes through.

Well, that was quick. Threads done. Just have to resist clicking on the links and going wiki-walking.

In the case of Joker, it was to cement his control over the cre syndicates by recapturing their launderer. It was also pretty effective at furthering his psychological game over Batman and Gotham.

Ego. Pure and simple. Just like how the Zodiac sent letters taunting the police. They want the world to know what they did, and to make sure that the cops look stupid. Seeing as how the Zodiac is still out there, he may have won that fight.

I wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of big reveal by the guy from a family member after his death (or soon, as he/she could be dead). Someone like that wants to be remembered for outsmarting the cops. BTK is another. Anything to let the world know that hey, I killed these people. And I didn't get caught (for a long time).

To advance the plot.

There, that was easy.

starsrift: To advance the plot.

There, that was easy.


Yup. It's the same reason I unzipped my pants at the pet store when the guy there said he had a hamster that gives blowjobs.

/It helps the joke.

It kind of makes sense though if you think about it.

When the good guys build defenses, they think about defending from external threats. They're strong on the outside and squishy inside. Better to make your attack from within the other side's defenses than trying to bust through where they're expecting you to attack. You also take advantage of the fact that the good guys guards will likely be down because they think you're no longer a threat.

In Dark Knight, it's not as if the Joker was put inside a Supermax cell or something. He was in a holding cell. Best way to get a breather and blow stuff up when the good guys are thinking they're safe.

In Avengers, Loki was brought inside the Avengers helicarrier itself (which is, ok, a stupid move to put a supervillain inside a giant flying machine without worrying that he might break out and crash the damn thing), but he could work best from inside, managing to deceive Hulk and Thor. And it's not like the cell was designed to contain Loki, it was designed to contain Hulk. Otherwise, they'd probably have to put a lock on it that basically doesn't open if Thor is within 300 miles of the helicarrier.

In Skyfall, Silva uses the fact that MI6 is designed to prevent external attack to his advantage. Get inside their defenses, rely on a stupid Q to plug in his superhacker computer, and destroy their nerve centre.

Ika7734: calbert: because lazy writers and easily impressed audiences... who thought Skyfall was good.

I enjoyed skyfall, but was annoyed that the whole 2nd half of the movie was because Q sucked at IT

An incompetent government IT worker? That's unpossible!

Well, it is better than the other "standard" way of doing it - letting the hero be captured by the supposedly evil and ruthless criminal that for some reason decides not to kill them - sometimes they have a reason, but often there is no explanation, the villian that kills everyone else without a thought decides to be lenient and only capture the person who has been a particular threat to them that the other people he casually offed previously never were.

Obviously it is better as mentioned in the article if you can do something a bit more unique and memorable if you want to create a situation where the hero and villian can interact, but if you can't manage that, the villain being captured makes more sense - the heroes generally wouldn't kill the villain once they have captured him, and especially if you can get a third party involved (the police or whoever), you don't even have to make the heroes look bad when the villain escapes, and you can make the villain look more competent in doing so (where when the villain captures the hero and he escapes it makes the villain look incompetent and thus diminishes the heroes achievements).

jtown: An incompetent government IT worker?

Surely that is the default state for an IT worker, the competent ones are the exceptions.

It's just an extra-lazy version of captain exposition to the rescue, it doesn't really deserve to be dignified with being treated as a separate thing from villain monologues in general.

"All part of the plan, Dayvid!"

fusillade762: Looks like this is a combination of Poisonous Captive, Get Into Jail Free and I Surrender, Suckers.

TVTropes always comes through.

I was going to say something about the Xanatos Gambit, but your tropes seem to be a lot more specific.

Amateurs!

Approves

Latent bondage fetish?



Like you wouldn't let her tie you up.

Jesus! What the hell happened to Wonder Woman's face??? Looks like she went to the Porn Valley's absolute worst boob-job practitioner who then decided to beat the crap out of her head with a shovel.

Rob Liefeld thinks that's bad art.

Karac: Latent bondage fetish?



Like you wouldn't let her tie you up.

What's with her farking FACE?!

Ika7734: calbert: because lazy writers and easily impressed audiences... who thought Skyfall was good.

I enjoyed skyfall, but was annoyed that the whole 2nd half of the movie was because Q sucked at IT

You are correct. The first half, wherein a villain was able to attain a top secret and highly sensitive list that was allowed to exist on a hard drive that left a secure facility and encryption keys that existed on a network-accessible computer, demonstrated exemplary security practices.

No mention of Sherlock Holmes? Blackwood doesn't just get caught on purpose, he's hung!

this has to predate The Dark Knight...

Karac: Latent bondage fetish?

[fc06.deviantart.net image 800x1129]

Like you wouldn't let her tie you up.

I dunno, man.  Girl with a mutated skull, overlong curved femurs, and Popeye's forearms, god knows what else might be a little misshapen.

Sometimes the villain specifically needs to accomplish something behind the heroes defenses, and the defenses are strong enough that an external attack is not plausible. Thus, get captured (hopefully with some mechanism for escape), break free and run amok.

In the case of the Avengers, they specifically stated that Loki was creating a diversion, which is also an entirely plausible reason. If the hero has the villain is inside his defenses, he will necessarily turn his gaze inward and be more exposed to external attack or more prone to not notice external events.

And it does solve the problem of having a villain who keeps the captured hero alive. Presumably the hero considers himself to be morally superior to the villain and thus it makes sense to keep the villain alive after capture, to have him tried and convicted or whatnot.

There are definitely some cases where the only reason for being captured seems to be to taunt the hero, though.

xria: Well, it is better than the other "standard" way of doing it - letting the hero be captured by the supposedly evil and ruthless criminal that for some reason decides not to kill them - sometimes they have a reason, but often there is no explanation, the villian that kills everyone else without a thought decides to be lenient and only capture the person who has been a particular threat to them that the other people he casually offed previously never were.

Either way, the important thing is the villain has to explain his/her entire cunning plan first before they part ways. Besides, this way the writers just need a cell, not an elaborate death machine or sharks with frickin' lasers.

ProfessorOhki: xria: Well, it is better than the other "standard" way of doing it - letting the hero be captured by the supposedly evil and ruthless criminal that for some reason decides not to kill them - sometimes they have a reason, but often there is no explanation, the villian that kills everyone else without a thought decides to be lenient and only capture the person who has been a particular threat to them that the other people he casually offed previously never were.

Either way, the important thing is the villain has to explain his/her entire cunning plan first before they part ways. Besides, this way the writers just need a cell, not an elaborate death machine or sharks with frickin' lasers.

You say that like it would be a bad thing...

DanInKansas: Jesus! What the hell happened to Wonder Woman's face??? Looks like she went to the Porn Valley's absolute worst boob-job practitioner who then decided to beat the crap out of her head with a shovel.

Rob Liefeld thinks that's bad art.

She has gumby legs!