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(NBC News)   Yes, Windows 8 is really worse than Vista   (nbcnews.com) divider line 205
    More: Obvious, Vista, window, web application, Windows PCs, showcases, newegg, SVP, fujitsu  
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9729 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Jan 2013 at 11:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-02 09:11:39 PM
Needs more Clippy
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-02 09:43:34 PM
It's faster and needs less memory.  If some people can't figure out the simple changes, then just keep using 7.
 
2013-01-02 09:54:24 PM

vpb: It's faster and needs less memory.  If some people can't figure out the simple changes, then just keep using 7.


People don't want to get up and change the channel on their 30 inch crt tv.  I played with winblows 8 and have already called it me3.  Seems like macroshaft just can't get right two releases in a row.
 
2013-01-02 09:58:51 PM
My only issue is that Steam crashes all the time.
 
2013-01-02 09:59:27 PM
Seems like you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.

/I miss aero
 
2013-01-02 10:18:24 PM

Mentat: My only issue is that Steam crashes all the time.


This would be a pretty big issue for me.  Still, I think 8's biggest problem is that MS hit it out of the park with 7 so there's no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you want to get a touchscreen.  Otherwise, 7 is going to have legs like XP did.  And I say this as an IT professional.

My next Windows laptop will run Windows 8, no doubt, but my gaming rig at the house is bumping along just fine with 7 and probably will for the next two years, so I'm not running out to upgrade it no matter how cheap it is.

Hell, even Apple is getting farking stupid with the updates.  I've gone from Leopard to Snow Leopard to Lion to Mountain Lion and each time the "improvements" don't really seem to outweigh the inconveniences.  I just upgraded to iTunes 11 and while Apple is telling me how great it is, do you know the only thing I notice about it?  I can't double click on the top of the window to minimize it anymore.  That's it.  I could give less of a shiat about the rest of the changes - they took away one "feature" that has been a standard for every Mac App for the past 6 years.

At some point you realize these people are just spinning their wheels trying to get you to buy new hardware, but for all the wrong reasons.
 
2013-01-02 10:31:53 PM
Once you graft the start menu and quick launch bar back onto it, 8's actually a nice OS. Lean and snappy, but I don't do any gaming, so I can't give any real evaluation there.
 
2013-01-02 10:47:33 PM

Lsherm: MS hit it out of the park with 7 so there's no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you want to get a touchscreen.


Yep. It ain't broke, so I ain't fixin it.
 
2013-01-02 10:51:52 PM
As someone who has to support it (indirectly) no it isn't. It can be difficult for some people to adjust to the new UI, but otherwise it is basically win7 with a facelift.
 
2013-01-02 11:02:58 PM
I started thinking it would be good to install on my HTPC, but turns out none of the app developers really care about keyboard/remote control interfaces.  The Netflix app is useless without a mouse.

On my work PC it's annoying the fark out of me when it launches fullscreen-only apps and shiat starts popping up when I move my mouse to the side of my monitor.  Hey Microsoft, sometimes I just like putting the cursor over there so it's out of the way.  I'm not really interested in shutting down the computer, changing volume, adding a printer, or sharing files right now.

The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.  Thanks for ruining my productivity, guys.  And here's your Zen moment: You get to the start menu by hovering the mouse in the bottom left corner of the screen until a start button pops up.  If I'm in an RDC to a Windows server 2008, that thing pops up over the windows server start button. 
What would happen if I were to RDC into another Windows 8 box?  Which start menu would I be hovering over?
This is kind of one of those "tree falling in the woods" questions, because somebody would have to install Windows 8 on more than 1 machine for that to ever be an issue...
 
2013-01-02 11:13:12 PM

Lsherm: This would be a pretty big issue for me.  Still, I think 8's biggest problem is that MS hit it out of the park with 7 so there's no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you want to get a touchscreen.  Otherwise, 7 is going to have legs like XP did.  And I say this as an IT professional.


Not just that; you don't have a major reason to switch computers that often if you're not a gamer. Hell, last fall I went from winxp to win7. I have no reason to even consider windows 8 for at least.... 4-5 years, minimum.
 
2013-01-02 11:18:50 PM

Mentat: My only issue is that Steam crashes all the time.


Luckily I haven't had any issues with that, just no videos on the game pages (which is nice don't have to worry about them ever autoplaying again). But any time I exit a game that I haven't switched to windowed mode, my taskbar likes to hide behind chrome until I go into the preferences and then OK out of them (w/o any changes...).
 
2013-01-02 11:18:55 PM
I really don't understand all of the Windows 8 hate. Granted, it's not an amazing step forward like Windows 95, XP, or 7 was... but there's nothing really bad about it. I've had very little compatibility issues with it, Steam and its games run just as well (if not better with a few more fps on some games!), and has a few new goodies. I have it boot directly to the normal Windows desktop screen and not to the awful metro screen so the new "interface" isn't bothering me one bit.

It's a nice new Windows OS, but nothing spectacular I'll give you that.
 
2013-01-02 11:22:20 PM
I'm a computer nerd and I barely knew it was out. I can't fathom how oblivious normal people are to its existence.
 
2013-01-02 11:23:07 PM

Lsherm: At some point you realize these people are just spinning their wheels trying to get you to buy new hardware, but for all the wrong reasons.


I understand why MS made the move.  Their core business is under assault and they needed to move into the tablet era.  And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button.  The learning curve wasn't nearly as bad as I had heard.  That said, the Maddenization that you talked about does get annoying.
 
2013-01-02 11:23:44 PM

Lsherm: I just upgraded to iTunes 11 and while Apple is telling me how great it is, do you know the only thing I notice about it? I can't double click on the top of the window to minimize it anymore. That's it. I could give less of a shiat about the rest of the changes - they took away one "feature" that has been a standard for every Mac App for the past 6 years.


I don't listen to much music. I mean, I have music on my iPhone, but I literally don't remember the last time I pulled up a song my phone. If I want music, I just Pandora. What I do use my iPhone (and thus iTunes) for are podcasts and TV shows not acquired from Apple. iTunes 11 has done away with the tiled view for podcasts which makes it more difficult to see all my old podcasts (and they're trying to do away with podcasts in iTunes altogether with their terrible, terrible podcasts app. And in the movies window, where my TV shows show up for some reason, none of my shows are in the "movies" section anymore, they're only listed under "genre," all under "unknown genre." And the new tiling format makes it so I can only see six episodes at a time instead of twelve. They literally made none of the features of iTunes that I use better and several features worse. I hope the rest are better to make up for it.
 
2013-01-02 11:25:27 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Not just that; you don't have a major reason to switch computers that often if you're not a gamer. Hell, last fall I went from winxp to win7. I have no reason to even consider windows 8 for at least.... 4-5 years, minimum.


I stretched my last gaming machine for about 6 years, and finally got a new one about 3 months ago. Only then did I switch to Windows 7. No goddamn reason for me to get 8, and with the limitations of consoles holding back game development, I can't see needing to replace this system for a really long time.
 
2013-01-02 11:30:31 PM
Office 2013 is a steaming pile of crap.  Put the two together and there's plenty to hate.
 
2013-01-02 11:32:43 PM

Mentat: And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button.


Yeah, but that's a pretty big deal IMO.

The Start button was really intuitive. It was obvious you were to click on it. Without that, you're staring at the desktop wondering "the f*ck do I do now?!" unless you have special knowledge of how their touch-centric POS works.

They've had a Start button for about 17 years, and suddenly they ditch it. Imagine if Apple put out a new version of iOS that removed the "Slide to Unlock" feature, and replaced it with the user needing to understand that they had to swipe in from one of the screen edges. Most people would be staring at the phone wondering how the hell to unlock it, and unable to get on the internet with it to learn what cruel joke had been played on them.
 
2013-01-02 11:34:25 PM
I have a Vista box and Windows 8 is definitely no Vista.

/Waiting for service pack 1 of Windows 8(march?) and hopefully it has a toggle to ditch the start screen interface and bring back the Start button, without resorting to a hack start button..
//Except the new head of Windows 8 is as stupid or stupider in regards to interfaces than the guy who got fired.
 
2013-01-02 11:36:40 PM
I like it. It's faster and has a smaller "footprint." I've had zero issues with steam, as mentioned above.
 
2013-01-02 11:39:12 PM

Sid_6.7: Imagine if Apple put out a new version of iOS that removed the "Slide to Unlock" feature, and replaced it with the user needing to understand that they had to swipe in from one of the screen edges. Most people would be staring at the phone wondering how the hell to unlock it, and unable to get on the internet with it to learn what cruel joke had been played on them.


It would be heralded as revolutionary and anyone who didn't like it would be called a hater.
 
2013-01-02 11:40:07 PM

Sid_6.7: I stretched my last gaming machine for about 6 years, and finally got a new one about 3 months ago. Only then did I switch to Windows 7. No goddamn reason for me to get 8, and with the limitations of consoles holding back game development, I can't see needing to replace this system for a really long time.


And even then, you can go through a few phases of processor and graphics card upgrades.
 
2013-01-02 11:41:16 PM
I've got 60 seats running Windows 8. The weirdness between control panel and settings in metro is the only real annoyance I have, but from a system admin/support perspective it's way, way better than Vista ever was. Metro is stupid but, once again, nobody actually has to use it. You can either limp along until you're up to speed with Metro or install a start menu replacement like Classic Start or you can just put shortcuts on your desktop and/or pin shiat to the taskbar, which is pretty much all that about 85% of Windows 2000/XP/Vista/7 users did anyway.
 
2013-01-02 11:42:28 PM

Sid_6.7: Satanic_Hamster: Not just that; you don't have a major reason to switch computers that often if you're not a gamer. Hell, last fall I went from winxp to win7. I have no reason to even consider windows 8 for at least.... 4-5 years, minimum.

I stretched my last gaming machine for about 6 years, and finally got a new one about 3 months ago. Only then did I switch to Windows 7. No goddamn reason for me to get 8, and with the limitations of consoles holding back game development, I can't see needing to replace this system for a really long time.


I just ordered a refurbished laptop running Windows 7 from NewEgg.com about an hour ago. My seven-year old Dell, running Windows XP that I dragged to Iraq and back, is finally in its death throes.

It took a lot of hunting to find something that hit that sweet spot between price and performance that wasn't running Windows 8.
 
2013-01-02 11:42:31 PM
Is there a guy out there running some obscure distribution of Linux that keeps submitting these articles hoping against hope that maybe everyone will give up on Windows and come across to Open Source? That only if we tried Linux Mint we'd give up on all that convenience that Windows has and embrace the path of Stallman?

In reality - there were "Windows XP is a turd" and "Windows 7 is a failure" articles as well.

Using Windows 8. Not having problems with it.

/CSB
 
2013-01-02 11:44:14 PM
Based on my recent experience at a Microsoft store, it doesn't seem like they've been able to excite their employees about it, let alone their customers.
 
2013-01-02 11:44:34 PM

Satanic_Hamster: And even then, you can go through a few phases of processor and graphics card upgrades.


When was the last time a CPU upgrade held back a gaming system? Was that before or after the release of dual core CPUs?

/Besides Dwarf Fortress.
//I all about what it does to i7s.
 
2013-01-02 11:44:37 PM
Here's a cool thing I discovered at work, where a few people are tst driving 8. I haven't used it myself though.

It is possible in dual screen mode to have the ne 'Metro' style desktop on one screen, and a standard Windows desktop on the other. If you like some features of the Metro look, yet prefer to do work in your standard desktop, you can have both. Whoever set it up at work isn't really sure how they did it, they just kind of lucked into it without much playing around, so it must be an easy option to turn on.

Myself, I'm pretty happy with Windows 7. I'd probably only go the 8 route if I had a tablet, and I really like Android for that anyway, so I don't think I'm switching. Personally, I think both MS and Apple are stupid for thinking we want our desktops to function like tablets. I want my tablet to do tablet-y stuff on, and my desktop for desktop-y stuff. I may set up a dual-boot when they release a service pack.
 
2013-01-02 11:45:07 PM
I was a happy girl after I added another $10 for Start8 and Decor8.
 
2013-01-02 11:45:39 PM

Mikey1969: If you like some features of the Metro look, yet prefer to do work in your standard desktop, you can have both. Whoever set it up at work isn't really sure how they did it, they just kind of lucked into it without much playing around, so it must be an easy option to turn on.


It's the default for any multi-display configuration. The "Desktop" app runs automatically on all non-primary monitors.
 
2013-01-02 11:50:06 PM

Sid_6.7: Mentat: And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button.

Yeah, but that's a pretty big deal IMO.

The Start button was really intuitive. It was obvious you were to click on it. Without that, you're staring at the desktop wondering "the f*ck do I do now?!" unless you have special knowledge of how their touch-centric POS works.

They've had a Start button for about 17 years, and suddenly they ditch it. Imagine if Apple put out a new version of iOS that removed the "Slide to Unlock" feature, and replaced it with the user needing to understand that they had to swipe in from one of the screen edges. Most people would be staring at the phone wondering how the hell to unlock it, and unable to get on the internet with it to learn what cruel joke had been played on them.


Step one: click once to start up Metro
Step two: click on the program you want to run

It's literally faster than with the Start button, and easier too. No more accidentally switching columns or clicking on the wrong text line.
 
2013-01-02 11:50:12 PM

Mentat: Lsherm: At some point you realize these people are just spinning their wheels trying to get you to buy new hardware, but for all the wrong reasons.

I understand why MS made the move.  Their core business is under assault and they needed to move into the tablet era.  And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button.  The learning curve wasn't nearly as bad as I had heard.  That said, the Maddenization that you talked about does get annoying.


No, MS will never beat Apple at the tablet game. They need to stop playing me too, me too. It failed with Zune, it failed with Windows Phone, this will fail as well. Do something farking new, or if you can't do something new concentrate upon improving your core products.

Get rid of which ever moron at MS is driving new products, also get rid of the moron who decided the Zune did not need apps or an app store. If you have to steal someone from Apple use some of that Windows cash to do it.

I do not want a tablet, let alone a tablet that runs Office. Most companies are not going to buy Ipads for users, they are buying the IPhone because RIM is as incompetent as MS.

Do not expect a cash infusion from Apple if you can't manage this.
 
2013-01-02 11:50:14 PM

SoothinglyDeranged: As someone who has to support it (indirectly) no it isn't. It can be difficult for some people to adjust to the new UI, but otherwise it is basically win7 with a facelift.


As someone who has to use it, yes it is. The UI is an irrelevant nuisance, nothing more, but the following post details just a couple of the more asinine problems that an OS designed for touch screen use brings along for the ride.

serial_crusher: I started thinking it would be good to install on my HTPC, but turns out none of the app developers really care about keyboard/remote control interfaces.  The Netflix app is useless without a mouse.

On my work PC it's annoying the fark out of me when it launches fullscreen-only apps and shiat starts popping up when I move my mouse to the side of my monitor.  Hey Microsoft, sometimes I just like putting the cursor over there so it's out of the way.  I'm not really interested in shutting down the computer, changing volume, adding a printer, or sharing files right now.

The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.  Thanks for ruining my productivity, guys.  And here's your Zen moment: You get to the start menu by hovering the mouse in the bottom left corner of the screen until a start button pops up.  If I'm in an RDC to a Windows server 2008, that thing pops up over the windows server start button.
What would happen if I were to RDC into another Windows 8 box?  Which start menu would I be hovering over?
This is kind of one of those "tree falling in the woods" questions, because somebody would have to install Windows 8 on more than 1 machine for that to ever be an issue...


Windows 8 may be great to support, as your flowchart only goes down one or two levels before you get to say "Sorry, that feature no longer does that", but for those of us who don't have touch screens and are actually trying to use Windows to get work done via a mouse, it is a great big steaming pile of shiat.
 
2013-01-02 11:53:01 PM

likefunbutnot: Mikey1969: If you like some features of the Metro look, yet prefer to do work in your standard desktop, you can have both. Whoever set it up at work isn't really sure how they did it, they just kind of lucked into it without much playing around, so it must be an easy option to turn on.

It's the default for any multi-display configuration. The "Desktop" app runs automatically on all non-primary monitors.


Nice... That is actually a nice feature. I've only done the most basic playing around with it, but that seemed like it had the most potential to piss me off(The Metro interface with no standard desktop). Having a dual rig like that seems like the best of both worlds.
 
2013-01-02 11:57:02 PM
Selling it every day, it's frustrating to have to tell every person it's basically the same. It is -it's Windows 7 with Apple's old At Ease interface bolted on.

It's no slower, I've had no driver hiccups, and it's a bit better on memory I think. I use it on my laptop. It works great.

But telling ma-and-pa kettle who just check their email and use it to watch HSN online (I swear to CHrist that's one thing I've been told)? It's confusing. It is something they'll need help with.
 
2013-01-02 11:58:02 PM

Sargun: Step one: click once to start up Metro
Step two: click on the program you want to run

It's literally faster than with the Start button, and easier too. No more accidentally switching columns or clicking on the wrong text line.


Click what to start up Metro? The problem is that the button is hidden from view.

It's funny to me that today's UI designers have more pixels than ever before to work with, yet they insist on having fewer controls on the screen at any given time. I mean, I understand the desire to not want your app to look like an airplane control panel (i.e. Thunderbird) but is one measly button too much to ask?
 
2013-01-03 12:03:57 AM

Sargun: Sid_6.7: Mentat: And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button.

Yeah, but that's a pretty big deal IMO.

The Start button was really intuitive. It was obvious you were to click on it. Without that, you're staring at the desktop wondering "the f*ck do I do now?!" unless you have special knowledge of how their touch-centric POS works.

They've had a Start button for about 17 years, and suddenly they ditch it. Imagine if Apple put out a new version of iOS that removed the "Slide to Unlock" feature, and replaced it with the user needing to understand that they had to swipe in from one of the screen edges. Most people would be staring at the phone wondering how the hell to unlock it, and unable to get on the internet with it to learn what cruel joke had been played on them.

Step one: click once to start up Metro
Step two: click on the program you want to run

It's literally faster than with the Start button, and easier too. No more accidentally switching columns or clicking on the wrong text line.


Oh you mean like desktop icons did since Windows 2?
 
2013-01-03 12:07:45 AM

serial_crusher: The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.  Thanks for ruining my productivity, guys.  And here's your Zen moment: You get to the start menu by hovering the mouse in the bottom left corner of the screen until a start button pops up.  If I'm in an RDC to a Windows server 2008, that thing pops up over the windows server start button.
What would happen if I were to RDC into another Windows 8 box?  Which start menu would I be hovering over?


i712.photobucket.com

This is the reason why i hate Windows 8. You have to patch everything in order to get it to work properly.

First you have to patch in a functional start menu.
Then you have to patch with Administrative Tools
Then Microsoft removed basic functionality from "XPMode" for legacy programs when moving over to VirtualBox, thus making it difficult to run legacy devices (required for work, I can't "just upgrade" since it's not my dime).

I can see going through the trouble for a home machine/ gaming rig, but it's definitely not worth the hassle on a work machine.
 
2013-01-03 12:17:50 AM
I would hate to use it at work, but for home use it isn't bad.  I mean, the main point of the home OS is to launch Chrome or Steam, so who cares about the rest, right?
 
2013-01-03 12:19:39 AM

likefunbutnot: Satanic_Hamster: And even then, you can go through a few phases of processor and graphics card upgrades.

When was the last time a CPU upgrade held back a gaming system? Was that before or after the release of dual core CPUs?

/Besides Dwarf Fortress.
//I all about what it does to i7s.


dammit, one post about DF and I decide to google something random about it, there goes a couple of hours reading about other people's fortresses.
 
2013-01-03 12:21:20 AM
Microsofts new design decision to PUT ALL THE MENU BARS IN ALL CAPS is almost as stupid as the decision to try and replace menu bars with "ribbons" was
 
2013-01-03 12:23:28 AM

Sargun: Step one: click once to start up Metro
Step two: click on the program you want to run

It's literally faster than with the Start button, and easier too. No more accidentally switching columns or clicking on the wrong text line.


Is it still possible to use the windows key and then type in the name of the program you want? That's pretty much how I start all my apps. There's no risk of misclicking involved.
 
2013-01-03 12:26:01 AM
If you hate win 7 just wait till you get a load of server 2012! And I do mean a load!
 
2013-01-03 12:26:17 AM
I'm currently using Vista on this laptop so I'm getting a kick, etc.

Vista isn't as bad as it used to be but Windows 7 still outdoes it by leaps and bounds.
 
2013-01-03 12:28:28 AM

Lsherm: Mentat: My only issue is that Steam crashes all the time.

This would be a pretty big issue for me.  Still, I think 8's biggest problem is that MS hit it out of the park with 7 so there's no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you want to get a touchscreen.  Otherwise, 7 is going to have legs like XP did.  And I say this as an IT professional.

My next Windows laptop will run Windows 8, no doubt, but my gaming rig at the house is bumping along just fine with 7 and probably will for the next two years, so I'm not running out to upgrade it no matter how cheap it is.

Hell, even Apple is getting farking stupid with the updates.  I've gone from Leopard to Snow Leopard to Lion to Mountain Lion and each time the "improvements" don't really seem to outweigh the inconveniences.  I just upgraded to iTunes 11 and while Apple is telling me how great it is, do you know the only thing I notice about it?  I can't double click on the top of the window to minimize it anymore.  That's it.  I could give less of a shiat about the rest of the changes - they took away one "feature" that has been a standard for every Mac App for the past 6 years.

At some point you realize these people are just spinning their wheels trying to get you to buy new hardware, but for all the wrong reasons.


a) this post is spot-on

b) I just helped my uncle buy a new desktop this weekend, and even he didn't want to get 8 since "7 works just fine, and I don't want to be a guinea pig".  I use my computer for a hell of a lot more than he does, and we're in the exact same "if it ain't broke not going to pay to fix it" camp.  Even though he could mail in a rebate and get the 8 upgrade for free.  The SO will probably get 8, but he has a dual boot Windows/Ubuntu setup anyway and is only on Windows when he needs to do more than internet-ing anyway.
 
2013-01-03 12:32:05 AM
I like Win8, especially on multiple monitors- it really improves on Win7 there (taskbar, background spanning, etc).

files.myopera.com
 
2013-01-03 12:32:18 AM

moothemagiccow: I'm a computer nerd and I barely knew it was out. I can't fathom how oblivious normal people are to its existence.


They had a billion dollar ad campaign. Computer nerd under a rock?
 
2013-01-03 12:33:24 AM

APE992: I'm currently using Vista on this laptop so I'm getting a kick, etc.

Vista isn't as bad as it used to be but Windows 7 still outdoes it by leaps and bounds.


I do work for my uncle (hence the new desktop since his crappy refurbished one up and died).  Since the desktop died I've been using Vista on his laptop... and holy crap, does 7 kick its ass.  I can use Vista fine but I just hate it.  Maybe because I was on XP and then 7 at home, but somehow that managed to be the most irritating OS I've dealt with since college.

I have a feeling a lot of older folks learned from that and aren't going to rush into 8... I was working in a tiny town when Vista came out, and I think lots of people who didn't know better felt obligated to buy it, like they had to to keep their computers working.  On two different occasions complete stranger older couples came up to me at lunch since I was young and had a laptop (working lunches always) and asked me to help them with Vista.  I have no idea how many times I helped people at my work on top of that, and it was terribly annoying since you can't audibly curse Microsoft while this sweet old couple is trying to figure out why they can't see those pictures of their grandchildren.
 
2013-01-03 12:33:51 AM

The RIchest Man in Babylon: I like Win8, especially on multiple monitors- it really improves on Win7 there (taskbar, background spanning, etc).


Yeah, it was nice of them to finally include (a few of) the features I used to have to pay UltraMon for.
 
2013-01-03 12:35:00 AM

tsferg: Computer nerd under a rock?


Not unheard of.
 
2013-01-03 12:36:11 AM

MrEricSir: Thunderbird


Thunderbird's appearance is highly customizable and skin-able besides. If you don't like all the buttons and folders and crap, go play with the stuff in the View menu until it's the way you want it and/or hit up the themes gallery to find something. If you're enough of a nerd to want Thunderbird instead of webmail, you can take five minutes to make it look the way you like.

serial_crusher: The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.


Have you never heard of Terminals? Because it's kind of awesome.

jeffdo1: No, MS will never beat Apple at the tablet game. They need to stop playing me too, me too.


The thing is, Apple's tablet experience is bar none the worst I've had, between the ridiculous data format requirements, inability to connect to file servers and data segregation between applications (yes, that is nerd stuff that only nerds care about but holy god does it all piss me off). The biggest problem with Microsoft right now is less "me too, me too" and more the fact that they're trying to be hip and cool and pretend that they're a lifestyle brand like Apple or Nike. Microsoft grew up and turned in to IBM. The people who need to be excited and interested in new versions of Windows aren't consumers but business decision-makers. Consumers are just going to take whatever they get and like it no matter what. The perfect justification for a Microsoft tablet isn't "We're just like Apple" but "Hey, this thingy is the same shape, size and weight as Apple but oh yeah it'll actually connect to a shared network folder and open a document in a fully functional editor that humans are actually familiar with without making a shiatload of work for you or your IT staff."
 
2013-01-03 12:36:49 AM
LOL I just finished deleting my Win8 VM from Virtualbox. I'd thought about upgrading but with all the less-than-stellar reviews I thought a' test drive' was in order...

Not as bad as I'd been led to believe. Speedy and all...

In the end, I just decided I didn't want to fark around with it right now...
 
2013-01-03 12:39:22 AM
I just built a new PC for Christmas & installed Win8 from scratch.
It found my wireless card immediately during setup and downloaded all device drivers. I didn't touch an install disk. Everything works perfectly.
Steam works perfectly.
All games work perfectly.
I get weekly email reports of my kids usage activity that are straightforward.

Only issues are the standard MS nonsense.
Why isn't there a search bar in the Windows App Store!?
Why do I have to click through pages of crap to get to the same Control Panel screens from 10 years ago?
 
2013-01-03 12:42:24 AM

bionicjoe: Why isn't there a search bar in the Windows App Store!?


I can help with this one- Just hit the Windows key and start typing whatever it is you're looking for, then select App Store (or Store, or whatever it's called, don't have my Win8 PC on right now) on the right-hand side, and *voila* search results from the store.
 
2013-01-03 12:46:14 AM

serial_crusher: If I'm in an RDC to a Windows server 2008, that thing pops up over the windows server start button.
What would happen if I were to RDC into another Windows 8 box? Which start menu would I be hovering over?


Windows 9 Inception.
 
2013-01-03 12:47:54 AM

The RIchest Man in Babylon: bionicjoe: Why isn't there a search bar in the Windows App Store!?

I can help with this one- Just hit the Windows key and start typing whatever it is you're looking for, then select App Store (or Store, or whatever it's called, don't have my Win8 PC on right now) on the right-hand side, and *voila* search results from the store.


Or bring up the "charms" menu on the right side of the screen and select the search icon. It defaults the search contextually, based on the program you're in.
 
2013-01-03 12:50:14 AM

Mikey1969: Here's a cool thing I discovered at work, where a few people are tst driving 8. I haven't used it myself though.

It is possible in dual screen mode to have the ne 'Metro' style desktop on one screen, and a standard Windows desktop on the other. If you like some features of the Metro look, yet prefer to do work in your standard desktop, you can have both. Whoever set it up at work isn't really sure how they did it, they just kind of lucked into it without much playing around, so it must be an easy option to turn on.



That's the default setting. I have dual monitors and whichever monitor you move the mouse to the top left corner and open Metro that's the screen that Metro opens in, leaving the traditional desktop in the other monitor.

I have Classic Shell and am very happy, but I upgraded from XP so the improvement in speed on my fairly new mobo/CPU is very welcome. XP didn't really work well with core2duo chips.

I'm a writer so of course the thing that has really pissed me off is they did away with Spider Solitare. There are Metro apps with Spider Solitare but they are just not as smooth as the old XP version. You can't start to move the next card while it's doing an animation, you have to wait until it finishes and then click on the next card, stuff like that. Plus of course its Metro so it's full screen only, though at least I still have the other monitor.
 
2013-01-03 12:51:33 AM

likefunbutnot: serial_crusher: The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.

Have you never heard of Terminals? Because it's kind of awesome.


Don't think I've seen that one in particular.  Similar projects I've tried have usually sucked, but I'll give that one a looksee.
At a first glance.... looks like I only get one window with tabs?  What if I want to have two machines open in two separate monitors?  Does it support that?
 
2013-01-03 12:51:46 AM

The RIchest Man in Babylon: bionicjoe: Why isn't there a search bar in the Windows App Store!?

I can help with this one- Just hit the Windows key and start typing whatever it is you're looking for, then select App Store (or Store, or whatever it's called, don't have my Win8 PC on right now) on the right-hand side, and *voila* search results from the store.


Yeah I figured it out, but that's totally stupid. Especially with the acres of open space in the screen. 
Props for a clean interface, but a search bar would be totally intuitive. Even searching for another thing can be a pain if the search area is closed. Winkey + typing +.....all over again.

There have been 2-3 simple things I've had to look up how to do on windows tip sites. It makes me wonder if anyone at MS ever thinks to sit a few people down that have solid PC experience and let them test drive an OS.

Don't get a bunch of grandmas and don't get a group of reviewers. Get people that need & want to find apps and such. Grandma is going to click on anything and be amazed. The reviewer guy is going to look for the thing he's supposed to be amazed by.
Go get people that need to USE a PC.
 
2013-01-03 12:54:33 AM

Flint Ironstag: Mikey1969: Here's a cool thing I discovered at work, where a few people are tst driving 8. I haven't used it myself though.

It is possible in dual screen mode to have the ne 'Metro' style desktop on one screen, and a standard Windows desktop on the other. If you like some features of the Metro look, yet prefer to do work in your standard desktop, you can have both. Whoever set it up at work isn't really sure how they did it, they just kind of lucked into it without much playing around, so it must be an easy option to turn on.

That's the default setting. I have dual monitors and whichever monitor you move the mouse to the top left corner and open Metro that's the screen that Metro opens in, leaving the traditional desktop in the other monitor.


If the "metro side" is at the start menu, doesn't it go away when you click anywhere on the other screen?  Will have to try it when I get to work tomorrow, but I thought that's how it worked.  Running a metro app in the other window, sure.

I actually like the new start page better than the start menu.  It's got some room for improvement, but I think it was a smart decision.
 
2013-01-03 12:55:55 AM

bionicjoe: The RIchest Man in Babylon: bionicjoe: Why isn't there a search bar in the Windows App Store!?

I can help with this one- Just hit the Windows key and start typing whatever it is you're looking for, then select App Store (or Store, or whatever it's called, don't have my Win8 PC on right now) on the right-hand side, and *voila* search results from the store.

Yeah I figured it out, but that's totally stupid. Especially with the acres of open space in the screen.
Props for a clean interface, but a search bar would be totally intuitive. Even searching for another thing can be a pain if the search area is closed. Winkey + typing +.....all over again.


how does that "just start typing" thing work on tablets that don't have a hardware keyboard?  Is there a hardware button that brings up the on-screen keyboard or something?
 
2013-01-03 12:59:36 AM

Sargun: Step one: click once to start up Metro
Step two: click on the program you want to run


Once you've managed to work out how to add things to the live tiles which can be a bit of a mission in itself. Of course this is AFTER you've managed to work out how to install things. Once you've worked out where they've hidden the "my computer" type function that lets you access whatever drive you've plugged in that has your executables on it, since there is no "my computer" on the desktop any more.

As I said in another thread they provide W8 with literally no documentation on anything. They expect you to wave your mouse vaguely all over the screen to see what pops up on the edges, or imagine up you need to drag right and then down etc. That's based on an assumption you know to do that even basic thing in the first place, and why would someone know that when it's never worked that way before?

It would be far better received if it came with basic "how to" and "was/is" documentation. But it doesn't. WinXP, Vista, and 7 didn't come with documentation either, but as an experienced user I already knew where everything was. If you totally overhaul your OS YOU NEED TO PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION.
 
2013-01-03 12:59:59 AM
ct.fra.bz
 
2013-01-03 01:03:13 AM
A few questions since I have only seen it demoed

1) Does it still want every window to be full screen
2) What do you do if you have more programs than screen real estate? With the Start Menu you had pretty much infinite space
3) Does it still do stuff when your mouse goes near a screen edge or if it does can you turn that off. I hate shiat like that
 
2013-01-03 01:13:03 AM

likefunbutnot: MrEricSir: Thunderbird

Thunderbird's appearance is highly customizable and skin-able besides. If you don't like all the buttons and folders and crap, go play with the stuff in the View menu until it's the way you want it and/or hit up the themes gallery to find something. If you're enough of a nerd to want Thunderbird instead of webmail, you can take five minutes to make it look the way you like.


I realize that Mozilla's software is super customizable if you know how or are willing to spend the time to figure it out. But you have to admit Thunderbird comes out of the box with a crazy mess default widgets and toolbars compared to, for example, Firefox.

Also I don't entirely agree that only hardcore nerds are using email software. Anyone who has more than one email account probably doesn't want to deal with visiting five different websites (or logging in/out of the same site) just to deal with their email.
 
2013-01-03 01:19:40 AM
As someone who started out with Program Manager and had to get used to the Start Menu, I'm getting a kick out of the whining.

/get off my lawn
 
2013-01-03 01:21:12 AM

jeffdo1: Mentat: Lsherm: At some point you realize these people are just spinning their wheels trying to get you to buy new hardware, but for all the wrong reasons.

I understand why MS made the move.  Their core business is under assault and they needed to move into the tablet era.  And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button.  The learning curve wasn't nearly as bad as I had heard.  That said, the Maddenization that you talked about does get annoying.

No, MS will never beat Apple at the tablet game. They need to stop playing me too, me too. It failed with Zune, it failed with Windows Phone, this will fail as well. Do something farking new, or if you can't do something new concentrate upon improving your core products.

Get rid of which ever moron at MS is driving new products, also get rid of the moron who decided the Zune did not need apps or an app store. If you have to steal someone from Apple use some of that Windows cash to do it.

I do not want a tablet, let alone a tablet that runs Office. Most companies are not going to buy Ipads for users, they are buying the IPhone because RIM is as incompetent as MS.

Do not expect a cash infusion from Apple if you can't manage this.


Ever try the new line of windows phones? The Nokia Lumia is the tits. Easy to setup, the tiles work well on the touch screen
 
2013-01-03 01:23:24 AM

Irving Maimway: Once you graft the start menu and quick launch bar back onto it, 8's actually a nice OS. Lean and snappy, but I don't do any gaming, so I can't give any real evaluation there.


So far, I agree. I went from XP to Win 8 in one jump, mainly because Win 7 is unavailable in a retail form...or I couldn't find it in downtown Toronto.

So I thought..."eh, they want $69...why not?" I threw in more RAM for about the same price, and it is noticeably faster to boot and load the graphic programs I use.

Installation was pretty straightforward, too, but given I've done a complete "nuke and upgrade" about a dozen times since 1990 on many machines, maybe I'm just getting better at avoiding the screwups.

/win D for the win.
 
2013-01-03 01:26:16 AM

Flint Ironstag: You can't start to move the next card while it's doing an animation, you have to wait until it finishes and then click on the next card, stuff like that.


Yeah, I don't understand why software companies seem to go backwards at times. If you want to skip a pretty animation, you should be able to, and it's pretty much been possible since Win 2k without having to go all-out on a high performance vid card. Now, it just seems like lazy developers.

Flint Ironstag: Plus of course its Metro so it's full screen only, though at least I still have the other monitor.


Yeah, that seems like more of that "What you really want is your desktop to perform EXACTLY like a tablet, you just didn't know it." bullshiat. Sure, I don't want windows and such all over the place on a tablet or smartphone, but I usually have apps and windows all over the place and click from one to the other. I don't know who told these cheese-dicks that everyone wanted full screen only. Just because Apple is trying it, it doesn't mean that MS HAS to follow suit. Apple has had plenty of bad choices, too.
 
2013-01-03 01:31:38 AM

serial_crusher: I actually like the new start page better than the start menu.  It's got some room for improvement, but I think it was a smart decision.


I use a similar layout for my home page in Chrome. I like that for browsing, I have all kinds of widgets and shortcuts on there, the tiles make it look nice.

That said, I want my farking desktop to look like my farking desktop, I want to have icons that I want, a wallpaper that I want, a start menu, etc... I've been using both Macs and Windows computers side by side for at least 10 years, and as nice as the Mac Dock is, there are times when it just isn't as handy as the Windows Start Menu, I'd have to say the same about a start page as opposed to a menu. Once again, I really think they're stupid to try and turn our desktops into tablets, each has its own niche, and that's where they belong. I just don't see any payout by trying to merge the two worlds.

/Of course, I'm not a software company VP, just a lowly User, what would I know?
 
2013-01-03 01:32:10 AM
Like Lsherm I too am an IT Professional.

WINDOWS 8 CAN DIE IN A FIRE
 
2013-01-03 01:34:22 AM
I use windows 8 and 2012 everyday at work.

I can run multiple RDP sessions at the same time on my laptop.

And when I run RDP in fullscreen mode I only get the charm bar and start menu for the RDP session.

I don't believe some of the people posting in this thread.
 
2013-01-03 01:35:14 AM

Mikey1969: Flint Ironstag: Plus of course its Metro so it's full screen only, though at least I still have the other monitor.

Yeah, that seems like more of that "What you really want is your desktop to perform EXACTLY like a tablet, you just didn't know it." bullshiat. Sure, I don't want windows and such all over the place on a tablet or smartphone, but I usually have apps and windows all over the place and click from one to the other.


I really noticed it when I first installed W8. Since my old video card didn't play nice with W8 I only had one monitor. I downloaded some PDF, a company annual report or something, and double clicked it and it opened with the default PDF viewer, and app that opened in Metro. I wanted to open Calculator to add up some figures from the document but of course I couldn't have the mall Calculator window on top of the PDF because it was Metro. A real step backwards in functionality.
 
2013-01-03 01:38:07 AM

serial_crusher:

The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.


This is BS. I have 5 open from Windows 8 now.

Go to your Search Charm. Type Remote Desktop Connection. Right click on it. Click Pin To Task Bar. Open one connection. Open another one. See that first connection? Still there. Open a third. First and second are still there. Rinse. Repeat.
 
2013-01-03 01:39:11 AM

CujoQuarrel: A few questions since I have only seen it demoed

1) Does it still want every window to be full screen
2) What do you do if you have more programs than screen real estate? With the Start Menu you had pretty much infinite space
3) Does it still do stuff when your mouse goes near a screen edge or if it does can you turn that off. I hate shiat like that


1) Only Metro apps opened in the Metro interface. If you open a traditional program in the traditional desktop it is as it always was.
2) Ditto.
3) I have Classic Shell, which adds the old Start button and menu. It has the option to turn off all the active corners. I don't mind them.
 
2013-01-03 01:41:59 AM

serial_crusher: Flint Ironstag: Mikey1969: Here's a cool thing I discovered at work, where a few people are tst driving 8. I haven't used it myself though.

It is possible in dual screen mode to have the ne 'Metro' style desktop on one screen, and a standard Windows desktop on the other. If you like some features of the Metro look, yet prefer to do work in your standard desktop, you can have both. Whoever set it up at work isn't really sure how they did it, they just kind of lucked into it without much playing around, so it must be an easy option to turn on.

That's the default setting. I have dual monitors and whichever monitor you move the mouse to the top left corner and open Metro that's the screen that Metro opens in, leaving the traditional desktop in the other monitor.

If the "metro side" is at the start menu, doesn't it go away when you click anywhere on the other screen?  Will have to try it when I get to work tomorrow, but I thought that's how it worked.  Running a metro app in the other window, sure.

I actually like the new start page better than the start menu.  It's got some room for improvement, but I think it was a smart decision.


No, I often have Spider Solitare open in Metro on one screen (can be either) while surfing the web or playing Youtube writing in the other monitor.

With Classic Shell I have the classic start button and menu and Metro, though I rarely use Metro as a start screen.
 
2013-01-03 01:43:13 AM

Flint Ironstag: Mikey1969: Flint Ironstag: Plus of course its Metro so it's full screen only, though at least I still have the other monitor.

Yeah, that seems like more of that "What you really want is your desktop to perform EXACTLY like a tablet, you just didn't know it." bullshiat. Sure, I don't want windows and such all over the place on a tablet or smartphone, but I usually have apps and windows all over the place and click from one to the other.

I really noticed it when I first installed W8. Since my old video card didn't play nice with W8 I only had one monitor. I downloaded some PDF, a company annual report or something, and double clicked it and it opened with the default PDF viewer, and app that opened in Metro. I wanted to open Calculator to add up some figures from the document but of course I couldn't have the mall Calculator window on top of the PDF because it was Metro. A real step backwards in functionality.

Small

calculator window....
 
2013-01-03 01:50:45 AM
When the best thing that can be said about your operating system is "there's an aftermarket hack that makes it suck less," then you haven't exactly written a winner.
 
2013-01-03 01:55:51 AM
I agree with those who say that the reason it is slow is that 7 is not old, out of date or in any way inadequate, therefore there is no compelling reason to look for a new os.

I personally think its pretty good, and it is being used as a stalking horse.. the workhorse of 7 with improvements and a first stab at the new interface models.

Not ALL of it is okay, they need to learn some lessons especailly about multitasking in the metro interface if they ever want it to be the primary.
 
2013-01-03 01:56:53 AM
oh and I find the RDP client a great improvement over the windows 7 one.
 
2013-01-03 02:01:45 AM

Flint Ironstag: A real step backwards in functionality.


And for no legitimate reason. I think I'll install it at work so that I'm familiar with it(If we have enough licenses, that is), but for real-world use, I think I'll stick with 7, I've been happy with it since the public beta, it's nice and solid. My Boss' theory is that Windows has to alternate garbage and success, so maybe their next iteration will be good. One thing I know: If Windows wants to keep getting customers, they need to stop with this multiple-versions bullshiat. There is no reason for it, and all they do is turn off features, it's not like the different versions are different from the ground up. One OS, one price. I understand that they aren't selling ridiculously priced hardware like Apple, so their OS has to cost more, but the idiocy of trying to sell me a gutted version is really starting to piss me off.
 
2013-01-03 02:08:21 AM

bionicjoe: It found my wireless card immediately during setup and downloaded all device drivers.


I stuck a Samsung WIS12ABGNX(a HDTV and blu-ray player wifi dongle) into a W8 machine and it found the drivers right away, while my W7 box didn't at all
 
2013-01-03 02:17:29 AM
You know, that "those old people are the cause of all our computing ills blah blah" rant is losing its steam. The PC/Mac has been around for a while now and a lot of these older folks started using them before most of you were born. That tired old line about older generations not getting computers went away right about the time Web 2.0 showed up. Oh, that's right, you don't know what that is.

/just sayin'
 
2013-01-03 02:19:40 AM

bloobeary: When the best thing that can be said about your operating system is "there's an aftermarket hack that makes it suck less," then you haven't exactly written a winner.


I was still using XP and W8 is a huge step forward in performance and security for $40.

If I had 7 I probably wouldn't have bothered.
 
2013-01-03 02:23:01 AM

Mikey1969: That said, I want my farking desktop to look like my farking desktop, I want to have icons that I want, a wallpaper that I want, a start menu, etc...


My desktop with wallpaper that changes every minute


Start menu

I think people with WPs are use to live tiles on the start menu
 
2013-01-03 02:23:30 AM

serial_crusher: The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.  Thanks for ruining my productivity, guys.  And here's your Zen moment: You get to the start menu by hovering the mouse in the bottom left corner of the screen until a start button pops up.  If I'm in an RDC to a Windows server 2008, that thing pops up over the windows server start button.
What would happen if I were to RDC into another Windows 8 box?  Which start menu would I be hovering over?
This is kind of one of those "tree falling in the woods" questions, because somebody would have to install Windows 8 on more than 1 machine for that to ever be an issue...


That's hilariously pathetic. You'd think they'd at least design their own apps not to have the GUI's conflict.
Wow.
 
2013-01-03 02:27:25 AM
Sorry
i.imgur.com
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-03 02:30:04 AM

Flint Ironstag: 1) Only Metro apps opened in the Metro interface. If you open a traditional program in the traditional desktop it is as it always was.


This alone is a reason to never use Windows 8. It has two separate interfaces running at the same time. That's exceptionally retarded UI design and the guy who thought it was a good idea to have too different desktop interfaces, which have two different sets of rules for using them, running on the same machine at the same time should be FIRED immediately.

What makes it ever more stupid, WIndows RT, an OS with no background app support, has two different interfaces for it's apps two. Not all Metro apps are created equal. Office on RT, a brand new application for an operating system designed to be run entirely on tablets, runs in the old desktop UI. That is stupid. Really stupid. In order to use RT, a 100% brand new OS sold exclusively on Tablet hardware, you MUST own a Keyboard and mouse. Microsoft seriously though tablet owners would want to get a KB/M for their tablet for SOME Metro apps.

As least Apple was smart enough to make iWork on the iPad a touch interface and priced it accordingly. If you want the full desktop version of iWork, run it on a full desktop computer. Office on RT should have been done the same exact way, there's no excuse for that level of interface inconsistency.
 
2013-01-03 02:36:34 AM
I bought my wife a new PC and it came with Win8. I can't say I care for it. Networking it with my Win7 machine is a pain and the Win8 requires a "home group" be setup and only the folders that are designated by Win8 are accessible from my Win7 machine (no matter what I designate as a share). So I'm only allowed to share content that's put in the folders Win8 chooses, and my own choices are disallowed.
Everything fulls screens and you can't alt+tab out of the full screened app to do something else. I'm used to being able to put up windows side by side and that doesn't seem to be an option. I haven't tested it extensively, but I've definitely used it enough to know I don't like it. I will definitely not be upgrading changing from Win7 to Win8.
 
2013-01-03 02:42:35 AM
Windows 8 isn't so bad.. I bought/installed it on my laptop and it's a whole hell of a lot faster and snappier than Windows 7 in all kinds of ways.. Windows 8 will boot in about 15-20 seconds opposed to Windows 7 which took 2-3 minutes..
 
2013-01-03 02:45:09 AM

Renowned transvestite sexologist: Flint Ironstag: 1) Only Metro apps opened in the Metro interface. If you open a traditional program in the traditional desktop it is as it always was.

This alone is a reason to never use Windows 8. It has two separate interfaces running at the same time. That's exceptionally retarded UI design and the guy who thought it was a good idea to have too different desktop interfaces, which have two different sets of rules for using them, running on the same machine at the same time should be FIRED immediately.


So, basically, Win8 has a Win7 interface available, and the new Metro interface that won't let me have a number of small windows open? So I wouldn't use the Metro thing anyway. So why the hell would I upgrade to something that runs that *as well as* what's basically still Win7, when I'm just using Win7?
 
2013-01-03 03:00:11 AM
I use Windows 8.

I don't enjoy it.

I found a conundrum. I have an application in my start menu from Windows 7. the shortcut includes arguments.  Now, I can run it by going through the start screen to ALL APPS and finding it in the extremely hard to read maze it creates, then pin it to start menu, and that's fine. but i want it on the desktop.

I cannot copy that shortcut to the desktop, nor alter the arguments. In order to create a desktop shortcut I have to find the file, right click to send a shortcut to desktop, then go in and type in my arguments, assuming i know them.

What the fark were they thinking? I can pin it to the taskbar but now that taskbar icons aren't just another place to drag desktop icons for easy access, I can't drag it back to the desktop.

Secondly, I got tired of my start screen having live updated tiles of shiat like my facebook account and whatnot, so i unhooked all that.

I get an email from microsoft a week later telling me "theres some problem with your account and that's why it's not updating it".  No shiat.

I don't want stuff tied together. When my Live account was suspended because my payment option didn't work and could not be changed, i was no longer able to access videos i paid for in Zune on my PC.

That being said, the OS has its up-sides:

1) It runs a bit faster (probably the lack of Aero, which was pretty and I miss it)
2) It boots up a lot quicker.
3) The sleep function works again (for whatever reason it wasn't working in Windows 7 and i was too lazy to fix it).
4) It'll provide work on the side for me for years, because it'll confound old people.
 
2013-01-03 03:05:21 AM

vpb: It's faster and needs less memory.  If some people can't figure out the simple changes, then just keep using 7.


Some people value their time more than dicking with some new user interface that was slapped together merely to sell another upgrade round. What does it buy me? Nothing.

Nice try Microsoft shill. Same as the Apple shills except less Palo Alto.
 
2013-01-03 03:06:45 AM
I just picked up an awesome new gaming laptop from Asus, which gets delivered today if FedEx is to be believed, and the only thing about it that made me reluctant to buy it was that it has Windows 8. Asus currently does not offer a single machine with Windows 7 that even comes close to touching the specs on what I got (Asus G75VW-DH72). I really wanted to stay with Windows 7, if at all possible.

I'll give Windows 8 a try, but if I have problems playing any of my current games (Champions Online, Guild Wars 2, Lord of the Rings Online, Rift, The Secret World, Star Trek Online), plus the software I normally use (Audacity, Fraps, Gimp 2, Irfanview, etc), then I'll be getting a copy of Windows 7 Professional 64-bit somehow and replacing Windows 8. Then again, I have a friend who has been using Windows 8 since it was in early beta tests and he loves it, says it runs all of his games and other software just fine, so maybe there is hope...
 
2013-01-03 03:15:52 AM

LazarusLong42: Renowned transvestite sexologist: Flint Ironstag: 1) Only Metro apps opened in the Metro interface. If you open a traditional program in the traditional desktop it is as it always was.

This alone is a reason to never use Windows 8. It has two separate interfaces running at the same time. That's exceptionally retarded UI design and the guy who thought it was a good idea to have too different desktop interfaces, which have two different sets of rules for using them, running on the same machine at the same time should be FIRED immediately.

So, basically, Win8 has a Win7 interface available, and the new Metro interface that won't let me have a number of small windows open? So I wouldn't use the Metro thing anyway. So why the hell would I upgrade to something that runs that *as well as* what's basically still Win7, when I'm just using Win7?


To me Metro is nothing more than a glorified start menu
I mostly use the start menu/metro to see updates on Facebook, email(4 accounts), and news without having to log in to any of those. After that it's back to the desktop mode.
/The Facebook app is a godsend in that you can see Facebook messages without having to log on and risk getting im's from people you don't want to talk to
 
2013-01-03 04:02:25 AM

Phelyx: Like Lsherm I too am an IT Professional.

WINDOWS 8 CAN DIE IN A FIRE


We aren't choosing to support it yet.  Here's to hoping you guys do the same.

/not everybody has that flexibility.
//and we really don't, either
 
2013-01-03 04:18:04 AM

drjekel_mrhyde: /The Facebook app is a godsend in that you can see Facebook messages without having to log on and risk getting im's from people you don't want to talk to


You know you can turn off instant messaging on your FB account through a browser, right?
 
2013-01-03 04:33:01 AM
typing from my Win8 machine. There have been growing pains but I'm growing to like it.
 
2013-01-03 04:35:09 AM
It is ugly.
 
2013-01-03 04:46:41 AM
It would be nice if MS just let people decide how to have the UI work, instead of forcing things on people. If someone wants the old, just let them have it and let them customize it, if someone wants the new, they can have that and customize it. It's not like it's rocket science to create a customizable UI.
 
2013-01-03 05:03:33 AM
IT professional here. I've been testing W8 for future use.
Once you get used to the changes, it's actually pretty nice.
Where W8 shines is its integration between devices, like your desktop and Surface and Window phone.
That functionality puts Apple to shame.
 
2013-01-03 05:42:42 AM
I've used Windows since 3.0 and I've never really hated any version, until now. I used Me for a year, it wasn't really that bad. Vista had a lot of problems out of the gate and its name was tarnished by them but after all the drivers caught up and a few patches it was also decent. Windows 7 is so far the best version I've ever used, but after trying Windows 8 for a few weeks...garbage. It's an ugly, unintuitive abomination that doesn't know what type of OS it is supposed to be.
 
2013-01-03 05:47:00 AM

Mikey1969: likefunbutnot: Mikey1969: If you like some features of the Metro look, yet prefer to do work in your standard desktop, you can have both. Whoever set it up at work isn't really sure how they did it, they just kind of lucked into it without much playing around, so it must be an easy option to turn on.

It's the default for any multi-display configuration. The "Desktop" app runs automatically on all non-primary monitors.

Nice... That is actually a nice feature. I've only done the most basic playing around with it, but that seemed like it had the most potential to piss me off(The Metro interface with no standard desktop). Having a dual rig like that seems like the best of both worlds.


I spent the money on a deco d monitor so I could tile another 6 terminal windows, not to use a completely different interface for some apps :)
 
2013-01-03 06:27:49 AM
I still use Vista. It works fine. But then, I don't load it down with a bunch of crap, and I'm rich enough to have put 4 gigs in it. I like 8 too. There was 15 minutes of re-orientation, but I'm smart enough to deal with that.
 
2013-01-03 06:43:24 AM

vpb: It's faster and needs less memory.  If some people can't figure out the simple changes, then just keep using 7.


That's incredibly important if you have a computer that doesn't have sufficient memory and processing to run windows 7. Since most of us use computers manufactured after 2002, I don't think it's really an issue outside of your magical time portal. The rest of us have orders of magnitude more memory than constitutes any kind of limiting factor on OS operation.
 
2013-01-03 06:57:57 AM

narkor: serial_crusher:

The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.

This is BS. I have 5 open from Windows 8 now.

Go to your Search Charm. Type Remote Desktop Connection. Right click on it. Click Pin To Task Bar. Open one connection. Open another one. See that first connection? Still there. Open a third. First and second are still there. Rinse. Repeat.


wow.  That's not a "this is BS" situation so much as a "what a load of BS that Microsoft is that inconsistent."  Launching it from the start menu, clicking on it a second time just focuses on the already-open one.  I never considered pinning it to the taskbar as a workaround.

/ Usually I don't even use the "pin to taskbar" feature.  I still use the old school quicklaunch bar.
 
2013-01-03 07:01:28 AM

Flint Ironstag: CujoQuarrel: A few questions since I have only seen it demoed

1) Does it still want every window to be full screen
2) What do you do if you have more programs than screen real estate? With the Start Menu you had pretty much infinite space
3) Does it still do stuff when your mouse goes near a screen edge or if it does can you turn that off. I hate shiat like that

1) Only Metro apps opened in the Metro interface. If you open a traditional program in the traditional desktop it is as it always was.
2) Ditto.
3) I have Classic Shell, which adds the old Start button and menu. It has the option to turn off all the active corners. I don't mind them.


What's as Metro app as compared to a standard program
 
2013-01-03 07:10:13 AM
Windows 7 is only 3 years old and is all patched up and working for me. What incentive do I have to go through an upgrade?
Faster? It's plenty fast now. I have a high-end machine with high-end components.
Memory? memory is cheap, just add more
Interface changes. I don't want interface changes. MSFT is bad enough when they change the interface on every version of Office much less on an OS.

You ever watch their commercials for Win8? They don't show anything but people choosing icons and scrolling around. They aren't actually doing anything. They need an infomercial to convince people, not a shiny ad campaign.
 
2013-01-03 07:11:01 AM

CujoQuarrel: What's as Metro app as compared to a standard program


standard program:
www.cmec-hb.com
metro app:
imgc.classistatic.com
 
2013-01-03 07:11:35 AM

Torese: I use windows 8 and 2012 everyday at work.

I can run multiple RDP sessions at the same time on my laptop.

And when I run RDP in fullscreen mode I only get the charm bar and start menu for the RDP session.

I don't believe some of the people posting in this thread.


You shouldn't. Some of them are flat-out lying.
i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-03 07:13:52 AM

CujoQuarrel: What do you do if you have more programs than screen real estate? With the Start Menu you had pretty much infinite space


The start page can scroll left and right over multiple pages of tiles.  So theoretically infinite.
 
2013-01-03 07:25:51 AM
I can't think of any reason why I would need 8.
 
2013-01-03 07:27:31 AM

SockMonkeyHolocaust: I can't think of any reason why I would need 8.


It sounds like I'd spend most of my time getting it back to work as well as windows 7
 
2013-01-03 07:43:44 AM
@Home
Upgraded from XP to win 8.
Installed classic shell. Skips right to desktop mode.
Problems? Finding control panel.
Solution: Take 10 minutes and actually learn something
Difficulty: uh.. accepting things change?

Also : Its just as good as 7 for games.
 
2013-01-03 07:46:12 AM
This has been my experience with Windows...

3.1: great
95: sucked
98: great
Me: sucked
XP: great
Vista: sucked
7: great

(I never used Me or Vista; I'm just going by hearsay on those)

In other words, every time they do a major redesign they basically put out a beta version (95, Me, Vista) so the users can find all the bugs, then they quickly put out another release that fixes them (98, XP, 7). I fully expect 8 and 9 to follow the same pattern, and so far I'm not hearing a lot of evidence to the contrary.
 
2013-01-03 08:13:35 AM

serial_crusher: CujoQuarrel: What do you do if you have more programs than screen real estate? With the Start Menu you had pretty much infinite space

The start page can scroll left and right over multiple pages of tiles.  So theoretically infinite.


I thought it was limited to 255, or is that only older Windows?
 
2013-01-03 08:14:53 AM
It may be easy to ascribe the disappointing sales numbers with Windows 8 as cyclical in Microsofts development history, but it may go deeper than that. Is there really a need for a new operating system at this juncture? Consumers have reached a stage with computers that they do most everything they want and at the speed they want it to happen. Technology as a whole is likely to see a massive slow down in sales as newer hardware/software offers increasingly smaller gains.
 
2013-01-03 08:21:09 AM

Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still possible to use the windows key and then type in the name of the program you want? That's pretty much how I start all my apps.


You don't even have to use the Windows key. When you're at the metro desktop just start typing and the search window pops up automatically.
 
2013-01-03 08:22:38 AM

Renowned transvestite sexologist: This alone is a reason to never use Windows 8. It has two separate interfaces running at the same time. That's exceptionally retarded UI design and the guy who thought it was a good idea to have too different desktop interfaces, which have two different sets of rules for using them, running on the same machine at the same time should be FIRED immediately.


Not really - not that I particularly agree with Metro/Modern UI although I can see the idea of bringing application programming and web programming all together in the future (which is more or less what Modern UI is - basically an IE window with no chrome showing a web app). So that make sense, and not immediately abandoning all previous applications of course is the main reason people will buy windows so they can't give up on those - given that DOS was only dropped at Vista, it seems likely desktop apps will still be around, but growing less and less common each year, until around 2025-2030 before an equivalent of DOSBOX will need to be written to emulate windows desktop when Microsoft gives up including it in their OS.

My problem with Modern UI is that it isn't easy (possible?) to split screen (the window in window stuff just isn't good enough) - on mobiles that probable makes sense, but even tablets it would probably be useful and workable to have at most two things on screen at once, but by the time you get to a desktop the lack of ability to see two applications or more on one screen is just pretty stupid, and the limitation of only having Modern UI on one screen is bizarre given how common multiple monitors have become.
 
2013-01-03 08:22:45 AM

Lsherm: This would be a pretty big issue for me.  Still, I think 8's biggest problem is that MS hit it out of the park with 7 so there's no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you want to get a touchscreen.


This. I'm perfectly happy with 7. I understand why you'd want 8 for a tablet, but for laptop/desktop users, MS was trying to fix something that was not at all broken.
 
2013-01-03 08:23:09 AM
Ah, Metro. All the headache of Unity and none of the charm.

This reminds me of that stupid "Two guys walk into a bar" joke.
 
2013-01-03 08:25:23 AM

MayoSlather: It may be easy to ascribe the disappointing sales numbers with Windows 8 as cyclical in Microsofts development history, but it may go deeper than that. Is there really a need for a new operating system at this juncture? Consumers have reached a stage with computers that they do most everything they want and at the speed they want it to happen. Technology as a whole is likely to see a massive slow down in sales as newer hardware/software offers increasingly smaller gains.


Yeah, and who needs one of these "personal computers" when typewriters and hand calculators do almost everything workers want and at the speed they want?

/just because you haven't thought of it doesn't mean there aren't more uses waiting to be discovered and exploited
 
2013-01-03 08:28:11 AM

ColSanders: Seth'n'Spectrum: Is it still possible to use the windows key and then type in the name of the program you want? That's pretty much how I start all my apps.

You don't even have to use the Windows key. When you're at the metro desktop just start typing and the search window pops up automatically.


"press the windows key" is synonymous with "go to the metro desktop".  generally I'm using my computer to do work, not just sitting there staring at the start page.  "ooh, look at the pretty tiles!"

The naming inconsistency fiasco has been great too.  I'm saying "start page", sometimes still just say "start menu"; you're saying "metro desktop".  Which is it?!  I suppose it's not entirely Microsoft's fault that a German grocery store threatened to sue them over the word "metro", but I figure if anybody could buy their silence it would be Microsoft.
 
2013-01-03 08:35:42 AM

HMS_Blinkin: MayoSlather: It may be easy to ascribe the disappointing sales numbers with Windows 8 as cyclical in Microsofts development history, but it may go deeper than that. Is there really a need for a new operating system at this juncture? Consumers have reached a stage with computers that they do most everything they want and at the speed they want it to happen. Technology as a whole is likely to see a massive slow down in sales as newer hardware/software offers increasingly smaller gains.

Yeah, and who needs one of these "personal computers" when typewriters and hand calculators do almost everything workers want and at the speed they want?

/just because you haven't thought of it doesn't mean there aren't more uses waiting to be discovered and exploited


It's like you didn't read my post at all. I state that productive gains in technology are diminished as they advance over time and you point to an analogy where there is a huge difference in the gains. No doubt there will be advances, but again the trend over time is that net benefits are less in each upgrade.
 
2013-01-03 08:41:12 AM

SpacemanSpoof: This has been my experience with Windows...

3.1: great
95: sucked
98: great
Me: sucked
XP: great
Vista: sucked
7: great

(I never used Me or Vista; I'm just going by hearsay on those)

In other words, every time they do a major redesign they basically put out a beta version (95, Me, Vista) so the users can find all the bugs, then they quickly put out another release that fixes them (98, XP, 7). I fully expect 8 and 9 to follow the same pattern, and so far I'm not hearing a lot of evidence to the contrary.


I would say:
3.1 WFWG: fine
95: dodgy
98SE: okay but required regular reboots/rebuilds to retain stability
Win2k: good (stable, decent PnP for most common hardware)
XP: okay
Vista: okay (I have Vista and W7 main PCs side by side, I barely notice any difference between them in practise)
Win7: okay
Win8: okay (seems to be faster than Win7 and is stable enough the old OS2 hibernate instead of reboot for faster startup is now standard, but issues with Modern UI knock it down)

Once people are used to it Windows 8 will probably do fine for most users, and there will always be moaning about a new UI change whether it is for the better or worse, so I don't read too much into that, but it would be a concern for a more power user (software developer in this instance) if Windows starts moving away towards the current implementation of Modern UI as it currently makes switching and interleaving applications difficult - when you are working simultaneously in SQL Server, Explorer, Visual Studio, Browser, Excel, Crystal and various other things that you often are switching between. Obviously for now you can use classic shell and avoid Modern UI, but that will only work for so long if Microsoft keep going down this route. Considering Microsoft have lots of developers working for them you would think they would sort out this eventually, but who knows.
 
2013-01-03 08:52:59 AM
My computer is not a phone, and the desktop interface is crippled with no start menu, and the ribbon instead of proper pulldown menus. Windows 8 is an abomination. Zippy the pinhead should be fired.
 
2013-01-03 08:53:00 AM
Aero sucked.

Yes, it did. Translucent gradients pretending to be "glass" is cheesy and should be left behind in the early 2000s where it belongs. Not to mention it ate up system resources for no good reason.

Give me the solid colors and simple, clean geometry of W8 windows any day.
 
2013-01-03 08:54:34 AM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Aero sucked.


And you can turn it off...
 
kab
2013-01-03 09:07:19 AM
I'll just keep using 7, thanks.
 
2013-01-03 09:11:13 AM

likefunbutnot: Satanic_Hamster: And even then, you can go through a few phases of processor and graphics card upgrades.

When was the last time a CPU upgrade held back a gaming system? Was that before or after the release of dual core CPUs?

/Besides Dwarf Fortress.
//I all about what it does to i7s.


Somewhere between AMD X2s and now. I'd say when the i5's came out.
 
2013-01-03 09:12:52 AM
Oh and just got a $500 touch laptop from ASUS running win 8.

Kids love it.

/we are doomed
 
2013-01-03 09:36:53 AM

serial_crusher: narkor: serial_crusher:

The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.

This is BS. I have 5 open from Windows 8 now.

Go to your Search Charm. Type Remote Desktop Connection. Right click on it. Click Pin To Task Bar. Open one connection. Open another one. See that first connection? Still there. Open a third. First and second are still there. Rinse. Repeat.

wow.  That's not a "this is BS" situation so much as a "what a load of BS that Microsoft is that inconsistent."  Launching it from the start menu, clicking on it a second time just focuses on the already-open one.  I never considered pinning it to the taskbar as a workaround.

/ Usually I don't even use the "pin to taskbar" feature.  I still use the old school quicklaunch bar.


Oh, so regardless of pinned status, you can right click any app on the taskbar and there's a context menu item with the same name as the app, which launches a new instance of said app.  Not the most intuitive way to do things, but I'm glad I know now.
 
2013-01-03 09:40:30 AM

HMS_Blinkin: Lsherm: This would be a pretty big issue for me.  Still, I think 8's biggest problem is that MS hit it out of the park with 7 so there's no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you want to get a touchscreen.

This. I'm perfectly happy with 7. I understand why you'd want 8 for a tablet, but for laptop/desktop users, MS was trying to fix something that was not at all broken.


They really could have skipped the X-86 version and just gone with the ARM iteration and called it Windows Mobil or something like that. I tested the beta for a couple of months, and it's fine - but the improvement over Win 7 is so marginal that it just doesn't justify an upgrade.
 
2013-01-03 09:44:36 AM

HMS_Blinkin: MayoSlather: It may be easy to ascribe the disappointing sales numbers with Windows 8 as cyclical in Microsofts development history, but it may go deeper than that. Is there really a need for a new operating system at this juncture? Consumers have reached a stage with computers that they do most everything they want and at the speed they want it to happen. Technology as a whole is likely to see a massive slow down in sales as newer hardware/software offers increasingly smaller gains.

Yeah, and who needs one of these "personal computers" when typewriters and hand calculators do almost everything workers want and at the speed they want?

/just because you haven't thought of it doesn't mean there aren't more uses waiting to be discovered and exploited


True, but it's reasonable to expect a massive slow down in sales until those other uses are both discovered and exploited.  It might be a while.
Nothing really revolutionary has changed in the PC business since the early 2000s when people started running all their apps through their web browser.
 
2013-01-03 09:57:37 AM
img268.imageshack.us
 
2013-01-03 09:58:12 AM
It's a fantastic OS for touchscreens. The problem is idiot hardware designers putting it on traditional devices...and Microsoft isn't helping by encouraging it.
 
2013-01-03 10:00:18 AM

SockMonkeyHolocaust: I can't think of any reason why I would need 8.


It's simple: got a touchscreen? Then yes. No touchscreen? Then it's very pointless and is just gonna irritate the hell out of you.
 
2013-01-03 10:05:12 AM
I'm someone who LOVES windows 8 but unless you have a touchscreen laptop, don't bother yourself upgrading. Your next computer, though, should absolutely be a touchscreen enabled laptop running windows 8.
 
2013-01-03 10:06:06 AM
At a certain point the pattern becomes a business plan.
 
2013-01-03 10:10:20 AM

meanmutton: I'm someone who LOVES windows 8 but unless you have a touchscreen laptop, don't bother yourself upgrading. Your next computer, though, should absolutely be a touchscreen enabled laptop running windows 8.


gorilla arm: n. The side-effect that destroyed touch-screens as a mainstream input technology despite a promising start in the early 1980s. It seems the designers of all those spiffy touch-menu systems failed to notice that humans aren't designed to hold their arms in front of their faces making small motions. After more than a very few selections, the arm begins to feel sore, cramped, and oversized - the operator looks like a gorilla while using the touch screen and feels like one afterwards. This is now considered a classic cautionary tale to human-factors designers; "Remember the gorilla arm!" is shorthand for "How is this going to fly in real use?".

30 years later. Let's try it again!

TBF, the hand position interacting with a laptop is a little different than with a desktop monitor. That said, I saw commercials last night for an Acer "all-in-one" type PC that looks like an iMac but has a touch screen. That thing's going to give you a hell of a gorilla arm.
 
2013-01-03 10:36:55 AM
I've been putting off buying a new laptop because of 8. Waiting until they fix it so I can use it for work.  I need start. I need multiple less than full screen windows.  And no, I don't want a godam touchscreen desktop. I have a 28" monitor and keep it quite a distance away, I'd have to stretch and lean over to touch it. What I want is a bigger monitor.
 
2013-01-03 10:37:16 AM

The RIchest Man in Babylon: I like Win8, especially on multiple monitors- it really improves on Win7 there (taskbar, background spanning, etc).


So put up with hideous usability for multi-monitor support? As I see it, I can stick with Win7 and use an unsupported 3rd party app (UltraMon) to get great multi-monitor support, or "upgrade" to Win8 and use an unsupported 3rd party app to get some of the old functionality back.

Until MS caves and adds back in the ability to have the classic start menu (which will happen when corporate adoption rates fall into the toilet), I'll stick to Win7/UltraMon for my personal rig.

At work as a dev, I upgraded to Win8 so I can keep up with the times. Not diggin it, not diggin it at all. Yes, I know all the shortcut keys, but they still feel "kludgy" to me.
 
2013-01-03 10:44:30 AM

Mikey1969: Flint Ironstag: A real step backwards in functionality.

And for no legitimate reason. I think I'll install it at work so that I'm familiar with it(If we have enough licenses, that is), but for real-world use, I think I'll stick with 7, I've been happy with it since the public beta, it's nice and solid. My Boss' theory is that Windows has to alternate garbage and success, so maybe their next iteration will be good. One thing I know: If Windows wants to keep getting customers, they need to stop with this multiple-versions bullshiat. There is no reason for it, and all they do is turn off features, it's not like the different versions are different from the ground up. One OS, one price. I understand that they aren't selling ridiculously priced hardware like Apple, so their OS has to cost more, but the idiocy of trying to sell me a gutted version is really starting to piss me off.


The third version of whatever Microsoft does is almost always the one that does well.

In the case of Windows 8, their stated direction now is "cloud, cloud, cloud" - if it's not cloud services or client, it's on the end-of-life path.

My daughter got a computer with Win 8 for her birthday. It's a crap interface for a desktop, but I bet it's very good on an actual touch device.
 
2013-01-03 10:45:19 AM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Aero sucked.

Yes, it did. Translucent gradients pretending to be "glass" is cheesy and should be left behind in the early 2000s where it belongs. Not to mention it ate up system resources for no good reason.

Give me the solid colors and simple, clean geometry of W8 windows any day.


Maybe you shouldn't run Aero on your TI-83.
 
2013-01-03 10:47:55 AM
Put 8 on my machine. Took a bunch of customization to keep it from entering the full screen apps. Even had to install the freeware start menu.

Otherwise, I just stay in the desktop, and it's fast and has a low footprint. They just need to scrap that horrible full screen metro crap, then it'll be fine.
 
2013-01-03 11:01:38 AM
I've always had my taskbar set to hidden anyway, so the absence of a start button isn't a big deal. Move the cursor to pop up the taskbar or to pop over to Metro, no big deal. I never really liked the Windows start menu, so I had desktop or taskbar icons to start frequently used stuff.

I installed Win8 at home for shiats and giggles. All the hardware was recognised, installation was quick and easy. In under an hour I had the navigation figured out. No crashes, no bluescreens, pretty uneventful.

When XP first came out, it was an unstable mess until the 3rd service pack. The same for Vista. Lots of compatibility issues when upgrading to Win7 from XP. After SP1, it worked ok.

Every time a new Win OS comes out it's always the same biatching, then over time people adapt and move on.
 
2013-01-03 11:13:54 AM
I'll be using win7 until about 2020. Just like I used XP for 10 years.
 
2013-01-03 11:14:07 AM

vpb: It's faster and needs less memory.  If some people can't figure out the simple changes, then just keep using 7.


It's interface is also very crappy, but please do enjoy the OS if a little thing like ease of functionality doesn't concern you.
 
2013-01-03 11:18:42 AM

Torese: I use windows 8 and 2012 everyday at work.

I can run multiple RDP sessions at the same time on my laptop.

And when I run RDP in fullscreen mode I only get the charm bar and start menu for the RDP session.

I don't believe some of the people posting in this thread.


I agree, IT pro (manage 100,000+ machines (no not support that's L1 minion stuff, I'm L3 I manage). I was hugely sceptical about the new interface and expected the grief MS got for changing.
However I sat down and set up my home office machine with it. The Start page is not as bad as I expected. It took about 5 minutes to get used to it. However as mentioned above, doing advanced tasks (i.e. looking at Device Manager) was not as intuitive as it was under 7 but I was still able to do it with some finangling. I need to use it more. A lot of the benefits of it that I am interested in is not from the end user experience but from the managing a plethora of user machines. I still don't have it on my main PC and majority of the machines in my house are linux based so I wouldn't say I am a fanboy in any way but I think the declarations of Microsoft's pending death is a tad over stated.
 
2013-01-03 11:20:08 AM
people seem to be trying pretty damn hard to hate on Win 8.

I dont think a lot of this hate is based in fact.
 
2013-01-03 11:21:17 AM

likefunbutnot: MrEricSir: Thunderbird

Thunderbird's appearance is highly customizable and skin-able besides. If you don't like all the buttons and folders and crap, go play with the stuff in the View menu until it's the way you want it and/or hit up the themes gallery to find something. If you're enough of a nerd to want Thunderbird instead of webmail, you can take five minutes to make it look the way you like.


Thunderbird's been suffering from the same things that plague Win8 and iTunes: changing for the sake of change but actually making the product worse than it was.
 
2013-01-03 11:24:02 AM

Sgygus: /I miss aero


Seriously, this is one of the things making me not UPPGRADDE. Every time some W8 fluffer goes "it's faster" I think ... when is the last time W7 was "too slow". OK, search sometimes, but seriously? I don't give a shiat if it takes 30 seconds to boot, I rarely need to.

Meanwhile, I like color and transparency, etc. I don't have any shiatty computers, even my notebooks have good graphics cards, why the fark do I need some lame ass phone-looking OS on my notebook with a full HD screen? And I hate the pastel bullshiat. We're not all gay or in kindergarten.

Big_Thumb: Every time a new Win OS comes out it's always the same biatching, then over time people adapt and move on.


This won't be the same. Time will tell, but sales are already plateauing, because (1) the previous OS is actually quite capable and (2) the new one has a significant learning curve. These haven't been true (1) ever, and (2) in 17 years. I think in about 6 months the Windows team at MS will be shiatting their pants, because this isn't going to go away with a service pack. IT departments everywhere are like fark this BS we'll stick with 7. That's MS' bread and butter. If they fark up Office 2013, then expect the same reaction. Office 2010 is fine, why UPPGRADDE?
 
2013-01-03 11:26:12 AM

GranoblasticMan: Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: Aero sucked.

Yes, it did. Translucent gradients pretending to be "glass" is cheesy and should be left behind in the early 2000s where it belongs. Not to mention it ate up system resources for no good reason.

Give me the solid colors and simple, clean geometry of W8 windows any day.

Maybe you shouldn't run Aero on your TI-83.


LMAO. You owe me a keyboard sir. :)
 
kab
2013-01-03 11:27:51 AM

serial_crusher: 30 years later. Let's try it again!


Absolutely... you're familiar with the Cloudtm, yes? The computer industry seems to enjoy re-inventing bad ideas (in this case, the dummy terminal), and hoisting them as 'the future'.
 
2013-01-03 11:27:57 AM

serial_crusher: The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.  Thanks for ruining my productivity, guys.


Good thing there's Live Mesh with RDP! Oh, wait....
 
2013-01-03 11:30:47 AM

Bacontastesgood: Big_Thumb: Every time a new Win OS comes out it's always the same biatching, then over time people adapt and move on.

This won't be the same. Time will tell, but sales are already plateauing, because (1) the previous OS is actually quite capable and (2) the new one has a significant learning curve. These haven't been true (1) ever, and (2) in 17 years. I think in about 6 months the Windows team at MS will be shiatting their pants, because this isn't going to go away with a service pack. IT departments everywhere are like fark this BS we'll stick with 7. That's MS' bread and butter. If they fark up Office 2013, then expect the same reaction. Office 2010 is fine, why UPPGRADDE?


I don't know where some of these "geniuses" go to school, but you think the axiom of "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" would give them a very obvious guide when it comes to putting out new software.
 
2013-01-03 11:33:55 AM

serial_crusher: Oh, so regardless of pinned status, you can right click any app on the taskbar and there's a context menu item with the same name as the app, which launches a new instance of said app.  Not the most intuitive way to do things, but I'm glad I know now.


Uhm, that's in Win 7 *now* and has been for a while dude.
 
2013-01-03 11:43:35 AM

xaks: serial_crusher: Oh, so regardless of pinned status, you can right click any app on the taskbar and there's a context menu item with the same name as the app, which launches a new instance of said app.  Not the most intuitive way to do things, but I'm glad I know now.

Uhm, that's in Win 7 *now* and has been for a while dude.


True, but I never had any use for it until they broke the "click the start menu icon for this app" paradigm in favor of the "hey, you must be running this OS on a tablet, right? right?" paradigm, thus I never noticed it.
Regardless of how long it's been there, it's not exactly intuitive.  If the thing said "new window" instead of just the name of the app, it would be...
 
2013-01-03 11:52:39 AM
serial_crusher: The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.  Thanks for ruining my productivity, guys.

Damn are people stupid. What I find interesting is that 90% of all the "problems" that people claim to have with Windows 8 are purely due to their own incompetence - especially when it's folks that claim they're profession IT specialists.

Remote desktop:
- First off: You can still fire off your old remote sessions by typing 'remote' and launching the venerable, built in "Remote Desktop Connection" application that's always been baked into the OS. Nothing has changed with your standard software - heck, they even improved it by finally allowing the program to automatically determine the detail/experience based of the connection speed.

- Secondly: If you decide to go the route of downloading the touch "Remote desktop" interface via the app store, it too can run multiple connection interfaces. Below is an example of running 3 sessions via the Remote Desktop touch application, along the right side of the screen (and it's pretty damned easy to see how to add another session, hit the big god damned + symbol, or if it's in full screen mode, hit the icon on the top of the screen to bring up more sessions). That is in addition to running the standard RDC on the desktop. Look at that, I can run unlimited amounts of sessions, via a touch interface, or the old interface - or a mixture of both. It's not friggen rocket science.

sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-01-03 11:54:36 AM

Satanic_Hamster: I have no reason to even consider windows 8 for at least.... 4-5 years, minimum.


This. I went from XP to Win7 a year ago as well on my home PC, and it'll stay that way probably until Windows 9.
 
2013-01-03 12:00:36 PM
I'm happy for anyone that has Windows 8 and likes it. Really, I am.

But if you would please stop thinking "it's not worse than Windows 7" is a convincing argument in favor of it? I mean, how convincing is it ever when someone's argument is "no really, it doesn't suck *that* bad"?

And I know it boots faster, but that's like saying I should buy a different car because the engine turns on faster. It's such an ancillary part of the experience, and the improvement is just a few seconds.

Also, I know you can get a third party Start menu, but I personally prefer not to need to bolt on third party modifications to enable what I consider core functionality. It creates a huge opportunity for that part of the functionality, which I have grown to rely on, failing due to conflicts or lack of support. I remember this happening all the time when I played World of Warcraft and a mod developer would quit playing the game or just lose interest in supporting his mod, leading to huge sections of my UI either being maintained by me (not the original plan) or abandoned.
 
2013-01-03 12:26:38 PM

burndtdan: But if you would please stop thinking "it's not worse than Windows 7" is a convincing argument in favor of it? I mean, how convincing is it ever when someone's argument is "no really, it doesn't suck *that* bad"?


Pluses in my book:

-Vastly faster booting/restart/sleep. My 3 y/o laptop with an SSD boots in 10 seconds, cold.
-Excellent touch interface for my convertible notebook - or being able to fall back to my old desktop interface when docked.
-Much improved task manager, which finally includes an "App history" tab, telling me exactly how much CPU time and bandwidth resources every single program has used. An awesome way to determine performance bottlenecks
rightyaleft.com
-Greatly improved peripheral compatibility and drivers - pretty much everything is now automatically recognized by the OS. No more hunting around for old driver disks, or searching the internet for network drivers on a fresh install to get the PC connected to the internet.
-The file transfer interface actually lets you pause specific transfers and see a graph of how much HDD resources the transfer is using - very useful for transferring large files across networks.
zona.ro
-The ability to "reset" your install, with affecting your files - or "reset" the OS to return to the post-install state, without having to wipe/reinstall the operating system.
cloud.addictivetips.com
-Better security
-No loss in program compatibility from XP, Vista or Win 7 for x86 version. (ARM version excepted)
-Finally has an OS wide spell checker!!!
-The upgrade costs ~$39


Bad features:
-People have to take a day or two to get used to an additional UI
-The ARM version loses x86 program compatibility - but nearly doubles mobile batterylife.

I'm sure there are more specific benefits over Win 7, but that's all I can think of right off the top of my head.
 
2013-01-03 12:27:31 PM
Mentat: Lsherm: At some point you realize these people are just spinning their wheels trying to get you to buy new hardware, but for all the wrong reasons.

I understand why MS made the move. Their core business is under assault and they needed to move into the tablet era. And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button. The learning curve wasn't nearly as bad as I had heard. That said, the Maddenization that you talked about does get annoying.


They are going to fail in the tablet department unless they get their act together and concentrate on actual tablets. Most of the Windows 8 tablets I've seen are actually hybrids that have a keyboard attached. If I wanted that I'd get a laptop which would give me more bang for the buck.
 
2013-01-03 12:33:26 PM

SockMonkeyHolocaust: I can't think of any reason why I would need 8.


$40 bucks for a legal copy of windows is one for me and I like how it looks using dual monitors
 
2013-01-03 12:45:17 PM

CujoQuarrel: A few questions since I have only seen it demoed

1) Does it still want every window to be full screen
2) What do you do if you have more programs than screen real estate? With the Start Menu you had pretty much infinite space
3) Does it still do stuff when your mouse goes near a screen edge or if it does can you turn that off. I hate shiat like that


1) New Metro apps are by default fullscreen, but can be run in a splitscreen. There are no more "windows" for each application. Traditional Win32 apps all run on the desktop and can be maximized/minimized/moved around.
2) The tiles on the new Start Screen/Home page scroll if there are more tiles than screenspace.
3) "Mouse in corner" activating the Charms menu or the Alt-Tab menu are part of the new UI.
 
2013-01-03 12:47:10 PM
Rwa2play: likefunbutnot: MrEricSir: Thunderbird

Thunderbird's appearance is highly customizable and skin-able besides. If you don't like all the buttons and folders and crap, go play with the stuff in the View menu until it's the way you want it and/or hit up the themes gallery to find something. If you're enough of a nerd to want Thunderbird instead of webmail, you can take five minutes to make it look the way you like.

Thunderbird's been suffering from the same things that plague Win8 and iTunes: changing for the sake of change but actually making the product worse than it was.


Add yahoo to that list.
 
2013-01-03 01:02:59 PM

vpb: It's faster and needs less memory.  If some people can't figure out the simple changes, then just keep using 7.


Guess what my customers are doing!! We've only seen three win8 machines, and two of them were reloads with win7. I think that says plenty right there...
 
2013-01-03 01:33:20 PM

MrSteve007: Pluses in my book:


I'm not so much saying there aren't benefits to Windows 8, I'm just sick of reading such craptastic arguments, which boil down to:
- It also technically functions, just like Windows 7 did
- It will do the thing you only do at most once per use a few seconds faster
- If you change it, you can make it into Windows 7 again

It's rare you see actual, meaningful improvements touted, which would be information that might actually be meaningful in the discussion.
 
2013-01-03 01:34:03 PM
no wai

wake me when 9 hits, i don't pay to test their betas
 
2013-01-03 01:37:25 PM

Mikey1969: Flint Ironstag: A real step backwards in functionality.

And for no legitimate reason. I think I'll install it at work so that I'm familiar with it(If we have enough licenses, that is), but for real-world use, I think I'll stick with 7, I've been happy with it since the public beta, it's nice and solid. My Boss' theory is that Windows has to alternate garbage and success, so maybe their next iteration will be good. One thing I know: If Windows wants to keep getting customers, they need to stop with this multiple-versions bullshiat. There is no reason for it, and all they do is turn off features, it's not like the different versions are different from the ground up. One OS, one price. I understand that they aren't selling ridiculously priced hardware like Apple, so their OS has to cost more, but the idiocy of trying to sell me a gutted version is really starting to piss me off.


I agree that the different versions are kind of stupid, but it's pretty easy to get Win8 Pro for $15 ($40 upgrade price + "I bought a Win7 computer recently" discount, neither or which are actually verified in any way - ahem, not that I'd advocate gaming the system like that).

I heard you can even flat-out "upgrade" from a pirate copy of Win7 and the upgrade assistant won't give you any grief. I have a few minor gripes with Win8, but this time around, price isn't one of them.

M$ seems to have finally grasped the concept that you get more sales if you lower prices. Poor college students like me aren't going to pay $200 for an OS, not when Linux and The Pirate Bay are out there.
 
2013-01-03 01:42:03 PM

burndtdan: MrSteve007: Pluses in my book:

I'm not so much saying there aren't benefits to Windows 8, I'm just sick of reading such craptastic arguments, which boil down to:
- It also technically functions, just like Windows 7 did
- It will do the thing you only do at most once per use a few seconds faster
- If you change it, you can make it into Windows 7 again

It's rare you see actual, meaningful improvements touted, which would be information that might actually be meaningful in the discussion.


Oh, I agree. But what I find humorous is that what used to be the largest points that people disliked about new Microsoft OS releases (runs slower, uses more resources, lacks a touch interface, is expensive) are now all eliminated. It runs faster, on less resources, with a flexible UI, for less than two $20 bills.

Now people simply complain about things being different, even though the OS has more flexibility across form factors, has more functionality, and with 99.999% legacy software and & hardware compatibility. Heck, now people overlook that it runs faster with less hardware and that doesn't impress them. It certainly goes to show that people will complain about anything.
 
2013-01-03 03:47:51 PM

SoothinglyDeranged: As someone who has to support it (indirectly) no it isn't. It can be difficult for some people to adjust to the new UI, but otherwise it is basically win7 with a facelift.


gotcha so zero reason to buy it then.

I dont WANT a tablet interface on my desktop.
 
2013-01-03 06:40:14 PM

MrSteve007: burndtdan: MrSteve007: Pluses in my book:

I'm not so much saying there aren't benefits to Windows 8, I'm just sick of reading such craptastic arguments, which boil down to:
- It also technically functions, just like Windows 7 did
- It will do the thing you only do at most once per use a few seconds faster
- If you change it, you can make it into Windows 7 again

It's rare you see actual, meaningful improvements touted, which would be information that might actually be meaningful in the discussion.

Oh, I agree. But what I find humorous is that what used to be the largest points that people disliked about new Microsoft OS releases (runs slower, uses more resources, lacks a touch interface, is expensive) are now all eliminated. It runs faster, on less resources, with a flexible UI, for less than two $20 bills.

Now people simply complain about things being different, even though the OS has more flexibility across form factors, has more functionality, and with 99.999% legacy software and & hardware compatibility. Heck, now people overlook that it runs faster with less hardware and that doesn't impress them. It certainly goes to show that people will complain about anything.


First, I wanted to point out almost all of your pluses for Win8 were actually already available with Win7. Except booting speed. I think I actually reboot my computer every other year. Win7 goes to sleep/wakes in a couple seconds and the only reboots are done overnight when updates arrive.

Second, since you can't DISABLE Metro - it doesn't behave exactly like Win7.

Third, it gains a couple percentage points of performance at a time in computing history in which computers are almost completely untaxed. Even 3-4 year old Win7 boxes are seldom stressed anymore.

Fourth, MS ripped WMC out of it and put it behind a pay-wall. And even then you have to buy your codecs (again) and the WMC that you have to buy hasn't been updated since Win7.
 
2013-01-03 06:54:41 PM
I wanted to make a compelling and well thought out argument in favor of 8 but im feeling lazy - so if you dont use windows 8 FU$K You
 
2013-01-03 07:43:03 PM

Objectesticle: I wanted to make a compelling and well thought out argument in favor of 8 but im feeling lazy - so if you dont use windows 8 FU$K You


Meh, I just ran the update checker and I would have upgraded, but winDVD 11 Pro isn't compatible.  To play Blu-rays on Win8 I'd have to shell out another $70 for PowerDVD Pro.  I could always use VLC, but technically that's not legal.

I can wait until they sort the bugs out, then I'll upgrade.   There's really no rush.
 
2013-01-03 08:11:46 PM

tsferg: moothemagiccow: I'm a computer nerd and I barely knew it was out. I can't fathom how oblivious normal people are to its existence.

They had a billion dollar ad campaign. Computer nerd under a rock?


A godawful billion dollar ad campaign. One where, my bet is, if you interviewed people immediately after seeing a TV ad block, most couldn't tell you whether there was a Windows 8 ad or Surface ad or no Microsoft ad at all in the block they just watched. That bad.
 
2013-01-03 08:19:43 PM

madgonad: Fourth, MS ripped WMC out of it and put it behind a pay-wall. And even then you have to buy your codecs (again) and the WMC that you have to buy hasn't been updated since Win7.


Lsherm: Meh, I just ran the update checker and I would have upgraded, but winDVD 11 Pro isn't compatible. To play Blu-rays on Win8 I'd have to shell out another $70 for PowerDVD Pro. I could always use VLC, but technically that's not legal.

I can wait until they sort the bugs out, then I'll upgrade. There's really no rush.


You can install Media Center (which includes all the players and codecs) for free, before Jan 31st 2013. If you bought a computer in the past few months, the Windows 8 upgrade cost is $15 - otherwise the standard upgrade cost is $39 Media Center - Price rising.

If you wait after Jan 31st - the standard upgrade price rises to $70, and media center is no longer free (prices look to be around $10-$20 for WMC). So you can wait, but expect to pay quite a bit more.
 
2013-01-03 08:31:42 PM

Objectesticle: I wanted to make a compelling and well thought out argument in favor of 8 but im feeling lazy - so if you dont use windows 8 FU$K You


microsoft-news.com
 
2013-01-03 08:45:11 PM

MrSteve007: madgonad: Fourth, MS ripped WMC out of it and put it behind a pay-wall. And even then you have to buy your codecs (again) and the WMC that you have to buy hasn't been updated since Win7.

Lsherm: Meh, I just ran the update checker and I would have upgraded, but winDVD 11 Pro isn't compatible. To play Blu-rays on Win8 I'd have to shell out another $70 for PowerDVD Pro. I could always use VLC, but technically that's not legal.

I can wait until they sort the bugs out, then I'll upgrade. There's really no rush.

You can install Media Center (which includes all the players and codecs) for free, before Jan 31st 2013. If you bought a computer in the past few months, the Windows 8 upgrade cost is $15 - otherwise the standard upgrade cost is $39 Media Center - Price rising.

If you wait after Jan 31st - the standard upgrade price rises to $70, and media center is no longer free (prices look to be around $10-$20 for WMC). So you can wait, but expect to pay quite a bit more.


Media Center won't play Blu-Ray discs, just DVDs.  I'd still have to shell out for a different app to play Blu-Rays, or I can wait for Corel to upgrade theirs.
 
2013-01-03 09:16:19 PM

Lsherm: MrSteve007: madgonad: Fourth, MS ripped WMC out of it and put it behind a pay-wall. And even then you have to buy your codecs (again) and the WMC that you have to buy hasn't been updated since Win7.

Lsherm: Meh, I just ran the update checker and I would have upgraded, but winDVD 11 Pro isn't compatible. To play Blu-rays on Win8 I'd have to shell out another $70 for PowerDVD Pro. I could always use VLC, but technically that's not legal.

I can wait until they sort the bugs out, then I'll upgrade. There's really no rush.

You can install Media Center (which includes all the players and codecs) for free, before Jan 31st 2013. If you bought a computer in the past few months, the Windows 8 upgrade cost is $15 - otherwise the standard upgrade cost is $39 Media Center - Price rising.

If you wait after Jan 31st - the standard upgrade price rises to $70, and media center is no longer free (prices look to be around $10-$20 for WMC). So you can wait, but expect to pay quite a bit more.

Media Center won't play Blu-Ray discs, just DVDs.  I'd still have to shell out for a different app to play Blu-Rays, or I can wait for Corel to upgrade theirs.


VLC will and it's free.

Industry will break it of course. Hell, my original Bluray won't play newer discs.
 
2013-01-03 09:21:24 PM

StoPPeRmobile: Lsherm: MrSteve007: madgonad: Fourth, MS ripped WMC out of it and put it behind a pay-wall. And even then you have to buy your codecs (again) and the WMC that you have to buy hasn't been updated since Win7.

Lsherm: Meh, I just ran the update checker and I would have upgraded, but winDVD 11 Pro isn't compatible. To play Blu-rays on Win8 I'd have to shell out another $70 for PowerDVD Pro. I could always use VLC, but technically that's not legal.

I can wait until they sort the bugs out, then I'll upgrade. There's really no rush.

You can install Media Center (which includes all the players and codecs) for free, before Jan 31st 2013. If you bought a computer in the past few months, the Windows 8 upgrade cost is $15 - otherwise the standard upgrade cost is $39 Media Center - Price rising.

If you wait after Jan 31st - the standard upgrade price rises to $70, and media center is no longer free (prices look to be around $10-$20 for WMC). So you can wait, but expect to pay quite a bit more.

Media Center won't play Blu-Ray discs, just DVDs.  I'd still have to shell out for a different app to play Blu-Rays, or I can wait for Corel to upgrade theirs.

VLC will and it's free.

Industry will break it of course. Hell, my original Bluray won't play newer discs.


Yeah, I've got the VLC crack.  I suppose I could use it, but I like things to be legit.

Looks like Corel isn't going to upgrade WinDVD anyway, so I'll probably have to switch products regardless.
 
2013-01-03 11:03:25 PM
I have it. I like it. Honestly, it's no different than 7 except that it runs faster, and the start menu opens into something different.

Seriously, some of you just want to hate it because your IT peers tell you it sucks.
 
2013-01-03 11:42:55 PM

ZeroCorpse: I have it. I like it. Honestly, it's no different than 7 except that it runs faster, and the start menu opens into something different.

Seriously, some of you just want to hate it because your IT peers tell you it sucks.


I bit the bullet and I'm installing it now since I'd have to buy new Blu-Ray software anyway.  I also forgot I have a Technet subscription, so it's free anyway.  I'll post back after it's done.

I expect I'll like it, but I didn't say it sucked in the first place.  I just pointed out there weren't very compelling reasons to upgrade.
 
2013-01-03 11:47:54 PM

Lsherm: Yeah, I've got the VLC crack. I suppose I could use it, but I like things to be legit.


Honestly, playing BDs on a PC sucks hard enough that I don't even install playback software. I just rip with AnyDVD HD and transcode with Handbrake. It's not worth dealing with the mandatory player updates and unskippable commercials and retarded menu structures, and the apps aren't worth what Corel or Cyberlink want to charge for them.

ZeroCorpse: Seriously, some of you just want to hate it because your IT peers tell you it sucks.


I agree entirely. Windows 8 is absolutely not anything to get bent out of shape about.
 
2013-01-03 11:58:45 PM
just stop reinventing it all so farking fast

how long since Windows 7 was released?

take a chill pill, Gates.
 
2013-01-04 12:05:05 AM

likefunbutnot: Lsherm: Yeah, I've got the VLC crack. I suppose I could use it, but I like things to be legit.

Honestly, playing BDs on a PC sucks hard enough that I don't even install playback software. I just rip with AnyDVD HD and transcode with Handbrake. It's not worth dealing with the mandatory player updates and unskippable commercials and retarded menu structures, and the apps aren't worth what Corel or Cyberlink want to charge for them.

ZeroCorpse: Seriously, some of you just want to hate it because your IT peers tell you it sucks.

I agree entirely. Windows 8 is absolutely not anything to get bent out of shape about.


Makes for nice pointless argument fodder though and, let's be honest with ourselves, it's why we're in this thread.
 
2013-01-04 12:35:44 AM

mrEdude: just stop reinventing it all so farking fast


A new OS every three years isn't entirely unreasonable even for a fairly slow-moving IT life cycle. I'm sure it plays hell with Common Operating Environments for places that have them, but that's why tons and tons of multinationals are still "evaluating" stuff like Windows 7 and Office 2010 and Microsoft will still be supporting some XP issues almost 20 years after it was released.
 
2013-01-04 01:34:53 AM

Lsherm: ZeroCorpse: I have it. I like it. Honestly, it's no different than 7 except that it runs faster, and the start menu opens into something different.

Seriously, some of you just want to hate it because your IT peers tell you it sucks.

I bit the bullet and I'm installing it now since I'd have to buy new Blu-Ray software anyway.  I also forgot I have a Technet subscription, so it's free anyway.  I'll post back after it's done.

I expect I'll like it, but I didn't say it sucked in the first place.  I just pointed out there weren't very compelling reasons to upgrade.


Finished the upgrade - it took the entire time I was watching "Young Adult" - a surprisingly good movie.  So about 90 minutes, but I don't have an SSD.

I can't say it boots any faster, but I do like the new Task Manager.  It's going to take a while to get that start menu customized to my liking, though.
 
2013-01-04 02:27:25 AM
 
2013-01-04 03:20:09 AM

Vaneshi: Why don't you get in touch with your boss and make sure you are actually shilling like a good boy and not just making yourself and the company you are paid to represent look like bigger idiots than they already are.

Yes, I KNOW you and half the other people in this thread all work for the same company. NO, you aren't fooling anyone. WE however are all laughing at you.


Lol. That's funny. You really are paranoid. While I did occasionally act as a guinea pig for Microsoft during college, volunteering as a games tester every couple of months - I'm happily employed as a marking and IT director (and ownership partner) for a Seattle architecture firm. If you've ever stayed in a Marriott Residence Inn, SpringHill Suites, Courtyard, or Hyatt Place - you've likely seen some of our handiwork.

On the weekends, I moonlight as a scuba divemaster and go sailing around the Puget Sound. I have a couple of friends who work as either IT or games development for MS (as lowly "contractors"), but I've never gotten a paycheck from them. Wish I could though - maybe some MS stock options too!


/I also find it funny that you exclaim that I'm a paid shill . . . considering my Fark account is about to turn 10 years old; while you're just passing 10 months.
 
2013-01-04 03:59:20 AM

MrSteve007: The ability to "reset" your install, with affecting your files - or "reset" the OS to return to the post-install state, without having to wipe/reinstall the operating system.


I just checked that out - that's barely a time-saver because it wipes your applications.  It's nice that you don't have to re-install the OS, but if you have to use that option - you seriously farked up somewhere.

So far, after the upgrade I did tonight, I'm not noticing too much difference, except that the boot time is longer than it was in 7.  I think that's because it's still installing updates.  But it's taking at least 5 minutes to boot, and 7 only took about two minutes.  Otherwise I'm pretty happy with it primarily because once you reach the desktop, it didn't change that much besides the new start menu, which I'm busy customizing.

I haven't looked yet, but do you have any idea if I can tweak the delay for the menus to show up on the active corners?  I want those farkers instantaneous.
 
2013-01-04 09:30:08 AM

Vaneshi: I'm sorry but you are retarded. The battery life of the ARM version has fark all to do with the software it's running. You'd mysterious get the same result running any ARM compatible OS vs an x86 machine.


LOL dude! I don't think he ever said it had longer battery life BECAUSE it doesnt x86. Just that both things were true. Correlation =/= Causation and all that.
 
2013-01-04 11:08:51 AM

serial_crusher: "press the windows key" is synonymous with "go to the metro desktop".  generally I'm using my computer to do work, not just sitting there staring at the start page.  "ooh, look at the pretty tiles!"


And coincidentally, going to the metro desktop is one keystroke away. Brilliant!

/haters gonna hate
 
2013-01-04 11:09:32 AM

degenerate-afro: serial_crusher: The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.


Sorry but if you're using the built-in Remote Desktop app in windows you're a wee bit of a noob.

Use remote desktop connection manager 2.2
 
2013-01-04 11:38:55 AM
Are you all still whining about it?
Seriously. Let it go. They changed the start menu. That's it. Literally.
 
2013-01-04 11:44:45 AM

Red_Fox: degenerate-afro: serial_crusher: The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.

Sorry but if you're using the built-in Remote Desktop app in windows you're a wee bit of a noob.

Use remote desktop connection manager 2.2


nah, that thing is designed for sysadmins who regularly need to hit the same set of machines.  I only have to use it once in a blue moon when our support guys can't figure something out and it's always a different machine I have to hit.  So, the regular RDC client's quick popup that lets me just type in the server I need to connect to is way faster for my use case.

Anyhow, we already established upthread that I'm an idiot and it does in fact allow multiple simultaneous connections.  I've just been behind on some newer "features" introduced since XP, and made the mistake of regarding start page tiles as an analog to desktop icons or other shortcuts.  Old shortcuts were purely a "launch this executable" functionality, whereas start page tiles are a "launch this executable, unless it's already running, in which case bring one of its windows into focus."  Ultimately my own fault for not considering that change, but I maintain that the "same button does different things depending on context, but doesn't have any visual cues to indicate context" thing is a bad design decision.
 
2013-01-04 07:15:42 PM

Lsherm: Mentat: My only issue is that Steam crashes all the time.

This would be a pretty big issue for me.   Still, I think 8's biggest problem is that MS hit it out of the park with 7 so there's no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you want to get a touchscreen.  Otherwise, 7 is going to have legs like XP did.  And I say this as an IT professional.

My next Windows laptop will run Windows 8, no doubt, but my gaming rig at the house is bumping along just fine with 7 and probably will for the next two years, so I'm not running out to upgrade it no matter how cheap it is.

Hell, even Apple is getting farking stupid with the updates.  I've gone from Leopard to Snow Leopard to Lion to Mountain Lion and each time the "improvements" don't really seem to outweigh the inconveniences.  I just upgraded to iTunes 11 and while Apple is telling me how great it is, do you know the only thing I notice about it?  I can't double click on the top of the window to minimize it anymore.  That's it.  I could give less of a shiat about the rest of the changes - they took away one "feature" that has been a standard for every Mac App for the past 6 years.

At some point you realize these people are just spinning their wheels trying to get you to buy new hardware, but for all the wrong reasons.


I still use XP Pro, but it's starting to lose compatibility with newer software. The Windows 8 upgrade is only $40.

That's compelling enough for me right now.
 
2013-01-04 07:42:19 PM

netweavr: I still use XP Pro, but it's starting to lose compatibility with newer software. The Windows 8 upgrade is only $40.


Every application that needs to be taken seriously still runs on XP. Maybe there's a modeling tool someplace that needs DX10, and I understand that next-generation media creation apps are slowly moving away from compatibility, but for the most part no one wants to stop taking money from the absolutely massive base of installed seats of Windows XP.

Windows 8 is absolutely worth $40. I actually suspect that if the full install of the Pro version were priced at that point, every SMB customer I have would move off XP within a year, if only so that they couple take four or five more years to decide whether they want to move to Windows 9 or 10 or whatever.
 
2013-01-04 07:49:11 PM

netweavr: I still use XP Pro, but it's starting to lose compatibility with newer software. The Windows 8 upgrade is only $40.

That's compelling enough for me right now.


Same with me. I was using XP Home until a month ago. The $40 deal for W8 was too good to turn down. I'm happy enough with W8 (it is far faster in use on my machine. I upgraded my mobo and chip a couple of years ago and XP just doesn't use core2duo properly) and planning to do the same upgrade on my netbook and a second PC I use as well.

I do however have Classic Shell to give me back the Start button.
 
2013-01-04 08:00:29 PM

likefunbutnot: netweavr: I still use XP Pro, but it's starting to lose compatibility with newer software. The Windows 8 upgrade is only $40.

Every application that needs to be taken seriously still runs on XP. Maybe there's a modeling tool someplace that needs DX10, and I understand that next-generation media creation apps are slowly moving away from compatibility, but for the most part no one wants to stop taking money from the absolutely massive base of installed seats of Windows XP.

Windows 8 is absolutely worth $40. I actually suspect that if the full install of the Pro version were priced at that point, every SMB customer I have would move off XP within a year, if only so that they couple take four or five more years to decide whether they want to move to Windows 9 or 10 or whatever.


Please explain, I was informed that my $40 key for Pro would work fine with the full version iso I burned at work.
 
2013-01-04 08:46:11 PM

netweavr: Please explain, I was informed that my $40 key for Pro would work fine with the full version iso I burned at work.


Technically, that is an upgrade license. You are right that it will work, but the boilerplate no one reads prevents it from being more useful.
 
2013-01-04 08:50:38 PM

likefunbutnot: netweavr: Please explain, I was informed that my $40 key for Pro would work fine with the full version iso I burned at work.

Technically, that is an upgrade license. You are right that it will work, but the boilerplate no one reads prevents it from being more useful.


That sounds close to what I've heard. The unofficial workaround was officially supported by MS but not officially approved by lawyers or some crap.
 
2013-01-04 09:29:05 PM
Upgrade licenses have been incredibly abuse-able for as long as Windows has existed. Just by the mechanics of how upgrades from different versions of Windows are supported, they're de facto full versions no matter what.
 
2013-01-05 04:52:11 AM
Vista was a kernel/memory memory management issue 8 is a good OS with a stupid design change.

8's issue isn't hardware or kernel related its stupid design choice related. When people are developing work arounds for your interface during your in-house beta and all beta's there after you don't stubbornly double down and send out that interface but modify it. This is to hard for MS to wrap their ego around however.

Vista's main problem was they initially lied a lot about the amount of memory needed. MS claimed 256 mb required 512mb recommended. If you had home basic and a directx 9 video card and turned off most of the aero stuff you might get it to run 1 program at a time halfway decently with 256. They revised it up to 512 shortly after release but a number budget of computers shipped new with 256 at the time from major builders. Add in the new memory management system before being patched with service packs didn't handle memory crashes due to a lack of available memory and ready boost not being well explained and you had a bunch of constantly freezing computers. It also had some drivers issues. Its important to remember as well that Vista doesn't even really like 512 especially with lots of the video cards and discrete graphics that were around at the time of its release.

I personally got somewhat lucky with vista in that I had just built a gaming machine that was capable of running it easily. My roommate at the time bought an hp with discrete graphics that weren't directx9 capable. It only had 512 mb of ram as well. That was constantly crashing. I ended up staying with xp 64 bit but vista available.

8's issue isn't hardware or kernel related its stupid design choice related. When people are developing work arounds for your interface during your in-house beta and all beta's there after you don't stubbornly double down and send out that interface but modify it. This is to hard for MS to wrap their ego around however.
 
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