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(NBC News)   Yes, Windows 8 is really worse than Vista   (nbcnews.com) divider line 205
    More: Obvious, Vista, window, web application, Windows PCs, showcases, newegg, SVP, fujitsu  
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9728 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Jan 2013 at 11:10 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-02 09:11:39 PM
Needs more Clippy
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-01-02 09:43:34 PM
It's faster and needs less memory.  If some people can't figure out the simple changes, then just keep using 7.
 
2013-01-02 09:54:24 PM

vpb: It's faster and needs less memory.  If some people can't figure out the simple changes, then just keep using 7.


People don't want to get up and change the channel on their 30 inch crt tv.  I played with winblows 8 and have already called it me3.  Seems like macroshaft just can't get right two releases in a row.
 
2013-01-02 09:58:51 PM
My only issue is that Steam crashes all the time.
 
2013-01-02 09:59:27 PM
Seems like you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone.

/I miss aero
 
2013-01-02 10:18:24 PM

Mentat: My only issue is that Steam crashes all the time.


This would be a pretty big issue for me.  Still, I think 8's biggest problem is that MS hit it out of the park with 7 so there's no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you want to get a touchscreen.  Otherwise, 7 is going to have legs like XP did.  And I say this as an IT professional.

My next Windows laptop will run Windows 8, no doubt, but my gaming rig at the house is bumping along just fine with 7 and probably will for the next two years, so I'm not running out to upgrade it no matter how cheap it is.

Hell, even Apple is getting farking stupid with the updates.  I've gone from Leopard to Snow Leopard to Lion to Mountain Lion and each time the "improvements" don't really seem to outweigh the inconveniences.  I just upgraded to iTunes 11 and while Apple is telling me how great it is, do you know the only thing I notice about it?  I can't double click on the top of the window to minimize it anymore.  That's it.  I could give less of a shiat about the rest of the changes - they took away one "feature" that has been a standard for every Mac App for the past 6 years.

At some point you realize these people are just spinning their wheels trying to get you to buy new hardware, but for all the wrong reasons.
 
2013-01-02 10:31:53 PM
Once you graft the start menu and quick launch bar back onto it, 8's actually a nice OS. Lean and snappy, but I don't do any gaming, so I can't give any real evaluation there.
 
2013-01-02 10:47:33 PM

Lsherm: MS hit it out of the park with 7 so there's no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you want to get a touchscreen.


Yep. It ain't broke, so I ain't fixin it.
 
2013-01-02 10:51:52 PM
As someone who has to support it (indirectly) no it isn't. It can be difficult for some people to adjust to the new UI, but otherwise it is basically win7 with a facelift.
 
2013-01-02 11:02:58 PM
I started thinking it would be good to install on my HTPC, but turns out none of the app developers really care about keyboard/remote control interfaces.  The Netflix app is useless without a mouse.

On my work PC it's annoying the fark out of me when it launches fullscreen-only apps and shiat starts popping up when I move my mouse to the side of my monitor.  Hey Microsoft, sometimes I just like putting the cursor over there so it's out of the way.  I'm not really interested in shutting down the computer, changing volume, adding a printer, or sharing files right now.

The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.  Thanks for ruining my productivity, guys.  And here's your Zen moment: You get to the start menu by hovering the mouse in the bottom left corner of the screen until a start button pops up.  If I'm in an RDC to a Windows server 2008, that thing pops up over the windows server start button. 
What would happen if I were to RDC into another Windows 8 box?  Which start menu would I be hovering over?
This is kind of one of those "tree falling in the woods" questions, because somebody would have to install Windows 8 on more than 1 machine for that to ever be an issue...
 
2013-01-02 11:13:12 PM

Lsherm: This would be a pretty big issue for me.  Still, I think 8's biggest problem is that MS hit it out of the park with 7 so there's no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you want to get a touchscreen.  Otherwise, 7 is going to have legs like XP did.  And I say this as an IT professional.


Not just that; you don't have a major reason to switch computers that often if you're not a gamer. Hell, last fall I went from winxp to win7. I have no reason to even consider windows 8 for at least.... 4-5 years, minimum.
 
2013-01-02 11:18:50 PM

Mentat: My only issue is that Steam crashes all the time.


Luckily I haven't had any issues with that, just no videos on the game pages (which is nice don't have to worry about them ever autoplaying again). But any time I exit a game that I haven't switched to windowed mode, my taskbar likes to hide behind chrome until I go into the preferences and then OK out of them (w/o any changes...).
 
2013-01-02 11:18:55 PM
I really don't understand all of the Windows 8 hate. Granted, it's not an amazing step forward like Windows 95, XP, or 7 was... but there's nothing really bad about it. I've had very little compatibility issues with it, Steam and its games run just as well (if not better with a few more fps on some games!), and has a few new goodies. I have it boot directly to the normal Windows desktop screen and not to the awful metro screen so the new "interface" isn't bothering me one bit.

It's a nice new Windows OS, but nothing spectacular I'll give you that.
 
2013-01-02 11:22:20 PM
I'm a computer nerd and I barely knew it was out. I can't fathom how oblivious normal people are to its existence.
 
2013-01-02 11:23:07 PM

Lsherm: At some point you realize these people are just spinning their wheels trying to get you to buy new hardware, but for all the wrong reasons.


I understand why MS made the move.  Their core business is under assault and they needed to move into the tablet era.  And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button.  The learning curve wasn't nearly as bad as I had heard.  That said, the Maddenization that you talked about does get annoying.
 
2013-01-02 11:23:44 PM

Lsherm: I just upgraded to iTunes 11 and while Apple is telling me how great it is, do you know the only thing I notice about it? I can't double click on the top of the window to minimize it anymore. That's it. I could give less of a shiat about the rest of the changes - they took away one "feature" that has been a standard for every Mac App for the past 6 years.


I don't listen to much music. I mean, I have music on my iPhone, but I literally don't remember the last time I pulled up a song my phone. If I want music, I just Pandora. What I do use my iPhone (and thus iTunes) for are podcasts and TV shows not acquired from Apple. iTunes 11 has done away with the tiled view for podcasts which makes it more difficult to see all my old podcasts (and they're trying to do away with podcasts in iTunes altogether with their terrible, terrible podcasts app. And in the movies window, where my TV shows show up for some reason, none of my shows are in the "movies" section anymore, they're only listed under "genre," all under "unknown genre." And the new tiling format makes it so I can only see six episodes at a time instead of twelve. They literally made none of the features of iTunes that I use better and several features worse. I hope the rest are better to make up for it.
 
2013-01-02 11:25:27 PM

Satanic_Hamster: Not just that; you don't have a major reason to switch computers that often if you're not a gamer. Hell, last fall I went from winxp to win7. I have no reason to even consider windows 8 for at least.... 4-5 years, minimum.


I stretched my last gaming machine for about 6 years, and finally got a new one about 3 months ago. Only then did I switch to Windows 7. No goddamn reason for me to get 8, and with the limitations of consoles holding back game development, I can't see needing to replace this system for a really long time.
 
2013-01-02 11:30:31 PM
Office 2013 is a steaming pile of crap.  Put the two together and there's plenty to hate.
 
2013-01-02 11:32:43 PM

Mentat: And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button.


Yeah, but that's a pretty big deal IMO.

The Start button was really intuitive. It was obvious you were to click on it. Without that, you're staring at the desktop wondering "the f*ck do I do now?!" unless you have special knowledge of how their touch-centric POS works.

They've had a Start button for about 17 years, and suddenly they ditch it. Imagine if Apple put out a new version of iOS that removed the "Slide to Unlock" feature, and replaced it with the user needing to understand that they had to swipe in from one of the screen edges. Most people would be staring at the phone wondering how the hell to unlock it, and unable to get on the internet with it to learn what cruel joke had been played on them.
 
2013-01-02 11:34:25 PM
I have a Vista box and Windows 8 is definitely no Vista.

/Waiting for service pack 1 of Windows 8(march?) and hopefully it has a toggle to ditch the start screen interface and bring back the Start button, without resorting to a hack start button..
//Except the new head of Windows 8 is as stupid or stupider in regards to interfaces than the guy who got fired.
 
2013-01-02 11:36:40 PM
I like it. It's faster and has a smaller "footprint." I've had zero issues with steam, as mentioned above.
 
2013-01-02 11:39:12 PM

Sid_6.7: Imagine if Apple put out a new version of iOS that removed the "Slide to Unlock" feature, and replaced it with the user needing to understand that they had to swipe in from one of the screen edges. Most people would be staring at the phone wondering how the hell to unlock it, and unable to get on the internet with it to learn what cruel joke had been played on them.


It would be heralded as revolutionary and anyone who didn't like it would be called a hater.
 
2013-01-02 11:40:07 PM

Sid_6.7: I stretched my last gaming machine for about 6 years, and finally got a new one about 3 months ago. Only then did I switch to Windows 7. No goddamn reason for me to get 8, and with the limitations of consoles holding back game development, I can't see needing to replace this system for a really long time.


And even then, you can go through a few phases of processor and graphics card upgrades.
 
2013-01-02 11:41:16 PM
I've got 60 seats running Windows 8. The weirdness between control panel and settings in metro is the only real annoyance I have, but from a system admin/support perspective it's way, way better than Vista ever was. Metro is stupid but, once again, nobody actually has to use it. You can either limp along until you're up to speed with Metro or install a start menu replacement like Classic Start or you can just put shortcuts on your desktop and/or pin shiat to the taskbar, which is pretty much all that about 85% of Windows 2000/XP/Vista/7 users did anyway.
 
2013-01-02 11:42:28 PM

Sid_6.7: Satanic_Hamster: Not just that; you don't have a major reason to switch computers that often if you're not a gamer. Hell, last fall I went from winxp to win7. I have no reason to even consider windows 8 for at least.... 4-5 years, minimum.

I stretched my last gaming machine for about 6 years, and finally got a new one about 3 months ago. Only then did I switch to Windows 7. No goddamn reason for me to get 8, and with the limitations of consoles holding back game development, I can't see needing to replace this system for a really long time.


I just ordered a refurbished laptop running Windows 7 from NewEgg.com about an hour ago. My seven-year old Dell, running Windows XP that I dragged to Iraq and back, is finally in its death throes.

It took a lot of hunting to find something that hit that sweet spot between price and performance that wasn't running Windows 8.
 
2013-01-02 11:42:31 PM
Is there a guy out there running some obscure distribution of Linux that keeps submitting these articles hoping against hope that maybe everyone will give up on Windows and come across to Open Source? That only if we tried Linux Mint we'd give up on all that convenience that Windows has and embrace the path of Stallman?

In reality - there were "Windows XP is a turd" and "Windows 7 is a failure" articles as well.

Using Windows 8. Not having problems with it.

/CSB
 
2013-01-02 11:44:14 PM
Based on my recent experience at a Microsoft store, it doesn't seem like they've been able to excite their employees about it, let alone their customers.
 
2013-01-02 11:44:34 PM

Satanic_Hamster: And even then, you can go through a few phases of processor and graphics card upgrades.


When was the last time a CPU upgrade held back a gaming system? Was that before or after the release of dual core CPUs?

/Besides Dwarf Fortress.
//I all about what it does to i7s.
 
2013-01-02 11:44:37 PM
Here's a cool thing I discovered at work, where a few people are tst driving 8. I haven't used it myself though.

It is possible in dual screen mode to have the ne 'Metro' style desktop on one screen, and a standard Windows desktop on the other. If you like some features of the Metro look, yet prefer to do work in your standard desktop, you can have both. Whoever set it up at work isn't really sure how they did it, they just kind of lucked into it without much playing around, so it must be an easy option to turn on.

Myself, I'm pretty happy with Windows 7. I'd probably only go the 8 route if I had a tablet, and I really like Android for that anyway, so I don't think I'm switching. Personally, I think both MS and Apple are stupid for thinking we want our desktops to function like tablets. I want my tablet to do tablet-y stuff on, and my desktop for desktop-y stuff. I may set up a dual-boot when they release a service pack.
 
2013-01-02 11:45:07 PM
I was a happy girl after I added another $10 for Start8 and Decor8.
 
2013-01-02 11:45:39 PM

Mikey1969: If you like some features of the Metro look, yet prefer to do work in your standard desktop, you can have both. Whoever set it up at work isn't really sure how they did it, they just kind of lucked into it without much playing around, so it must be an easy option to turn on.


It's the default for any multi-display configuration. The "Desktop" app runs automatically on all non-primary monitors.
 
2013-01-02 11:50:06 PM

Sid_6.7: Mentat: And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button.

Yeah, but that's a pretty big deal IMO.

The Start button was really intuitive. It was obvious you were to click on it. Without that, you're staring at the desktop wondering "the f*ck do I do now?!" unless you have special knowledge of how their touch-centric POS works.

They've had a Start button for about 17 years, and suddenly they ditch it. Imagine if Apple put out a new version of iOS that removed the "Slide to Unlock" feature, and replaced it with the user needing to understand that they had to swipe in from one of the screen edges. Most people would be staring at the phone wondering how the hell to unlock it, and unable to get on the internet with it to learn what cruel joke had been played on them.


Step one: click once to start up Metro
Step two: click on the program you want to run

It's literally faster than with the Start button, and easier too. No more accidentally switching columns or clicking on the wrong text line.
 
2013-01-02 11:50:12 PM

Mentat: Lsherm: At some point you realize these people are just spinning their wheels trying to get you to buy new hardware, but for all the wrong reasons.

I understand why MS made the move.  Their core business is under assault and they needed to move into the tablet era.  And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button.  The learning curve wasn't nearly as bad as I had heard.  That said, the Maddenization that you talked about does get annoying.


No, MS will never beat Apple at the tablet game. They need to stop playing me too, me too. It failed with Zune, it failed with Windows Phone, this will fail as well. Do something farking new, or if you can't do something new concentrate upon improving your core products.

Get rid of which ever moron at MS is driving new products, also get rid of the moron who decided the Zune did not need apps or an app store. If you have to steal someone from Apple use some of that Windows cash to do it.

I do not want a tablet, let alone a tablet that runs Office. Most companies are not going to buy Ipads for users, they are buying the IPhone because RIM is as incompetent as MS.

Do not expect a cash infusion from Apple if you can't manage this.
 
2013-01-02 11:50:14 PM

SoothinglyDeranged: As someone who has to support it (indirectly) no it isn't. It can be difficult for some people to adjust to the new UI, but otherwise it is basically win7 with a facelift.


As someone who has to use it, yes it is. The UI is an irrelevant nuisance, nothing more, but the following post details just a couple of the more asinine problems that an OS designed for touch screen use brings along for the ride.

serial_crusher: I started thinking it would be good to install on my HTPC, but turns out none of the app developers really care about keyboard/remote control interfaces.  The Netflix app is useless without a mouse.

On my work PC it's annoying the fark out of me when it launches fullscreen-only apps and shiat starts popping up when I move my mouse to the side of my monitor.  Hey Microsoft, sometimes I just like putting the cursor over there so it's out of the way.  I'm not really interested in shutting down the computer, changing volume, adding a printer, or sharing files right now.

The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.  Thanks for ruining my productivity, guys.  And here's your Zen moment: You get to the start menu by hovering the mouse in the bottom left corner of the screen until a start button pops up.  If I'm in an RDC to a Windows server 2008, that thing pops up over the windows server start button.
What would happen if I were to RDC into another Windows 8 box?  Which start menu would I be hovering over?
This is kind of one of those "tree falling in the woods" questions, because somebody would have to install Windows 8 on more than 1 machine for that to ever be an issue...


Windows 8 may be great to support, as your flowchart only goes down one or two levels before you get to say "Sorry, that feature no longer does that", but for those of us who don't have touch screens and are actually trying to use Windows to get work done via a mouse, it is a great big steaming pile of shiat.
 
2013-01-02 11:53:01 PM

likefunbutnot: Mikey1969: If you like some features of the Metro look, yet prefer to do work in your standard desktop, you can have both. Whoever set it up at work isn't really sure how they did it, they just kind of lucked into it without much playing around, so it must be an easy option to turn on.

It's the default for any multi-display configuration. The "Desktop" app runs automatically on all non-primary monitors.


Nice... That is actually a nice feature. I've only done the most basic playing around with it, but that seemed like it had the most potential to piss me off(The Metro interface with no standard desktop). Having a dual rig like that seems like the best of both worlds.
 
2013-01-02 11:57:02 PM
Selling it every day, it's frustrating to have to tell every person it's basically the same. It is -it's Windows 7 with Apple's old At Ease interface bolted on.

It's no slower, I've had no driver hiccups, and it's a bit better on memory I think. I use it on my laptop. It works great.

But telling ma-and-pa kettle who just check their email and use it to watch HSN online (I swear to CHrist that's one thing I've been told)? It's confusing. It is something they'll need help with.
 
2013-01-02 11:58:02 PM

Sargun: Step one: click once to start up Metro
Step two: click on the program you want to run

It's literally faster than with the Start button, and easier too. No more accidentally switching columns or clicking on the wrong text line.


Click what to start up Metro? The problem is that the button is hidden from view.

It's funny to me that today's UI designers have more pixels than ever before to work with, yet they insist on having fewer controls on the screen at any given time. I mean, I understand the desire to not want your app to look like an airplane control panel (i.e. Thunderbird) but is one measly button too much to ask?
 
2013-01-03 12:03:57 AM

Sargun: Sid_6.7: Mentat: And as someone else said, once you get to the desktop it's basically the same Windows as always save for the lack of a Start button.

Yeah, but that's a pretty big deal IMO.

The Start button was really intuitive. It was obvious you were to click on it. Without that, you're staring at the desktop wondering "the f*ck do I do now?!" unless you have special knowledge of how their touch-centric POS works.

They've had a Start button for about 17 years, and suddenly they ditch it. Imagine if Apple put out a new version of iOS that removed the "Slide to Unlock" feature, and replaced it with the user needing to understand that they had to swipe in from one of the screen edges. Most people would be staring at the phone wondering how the hell to unlock it, and unable to get on the internet with it to learn what cruel joke had been played on them.

Step one: click once to start up Metro
Step two: click on the program you want to run

It's literally faster than with the Start button, and easier too. No more accidentally switching columns or clicking on the wrong text line.


Oh you mean like desktop icons did since Windows 2?
 
2013-01-03 12:07:45 AM

serial_crusher: The Remote Desktop Connection app only allows you to have one connection open at a time now too.  Thanks for ruining my productivity, guys.  And here's your Zen moment: You get to the start menu by hovering the mouse in the bottom left corner of the screen until a start button pops up.  If I'm in an RDC to a Windows server 2008, that thing pops up over the windows server start button.
What would happen if I were to RDC into another Windows 8 box?  Which start menu would I be hovering over?


i712.photobucket.com

This is the reason why i hate Windows 8. You have to patch everything in order to get it to work properly.

First you have to patch in a functional start menu.
Then you have to patch with Administrative Tools
Then Microsoft removed basic functionality from "XPMode" for legacy programs when moving over to VirtualBox, thus making it difficult to run legacy devices (required for work, I can't "just upgrade" since it's not my dime).

I can see going through the trouble for a home machine/ gaming rig, but it's definitely not worth the hassle on a work machine.
 
2013-01-03 12:17:50 AM
I would hate to use it at work, but for home use it isn't bad.  I mean, the main point of the home OS is to launch Chrome or Steam, so who cares about the rest, right?
 
2013-01-03 12:19:39 AM

likefunbutnot: Satanic_Hamster: And even then, you can go through a few phases of processor and graphics card upgrades.

When was the last time a CPU upgrade held back a gaming system? Was that before or after the release of dual core CPUs?

/Besides Dwarf Fortress.
//I all about what it does to i7s.


dammit, one post about DF and I decide to google something random about it, there goes a couple of hours reading about other people's fortresses.
 
2013-01-03 12:21:20 AM
Microsofts new design decision to PUT ALL THE MENU BARS IN ALL CAPS is almost as stupid as the decision to try and replace menu bars with "ribbons" was
 
2013-01-03 12:23:28 AM

Sargun: Step one: click once to start up Metro
Step two: click on the program you want to run

It's literally faster than with the Start button, and easier too. No more accidentally switching columns or clicking on the wrong text line.


Is it still possible to use the windows key and then type in the name of the program you want? That's pretty much how I start all my apps. There's no risk of misclicking involved.
 
2013-01-03 12:26:01 AM
If you hate win 7 just wait till you get a load of server 2012! And I do mean a load!
 
2013-01-03 12:26:17 AM
I'm currently using Vista on this laptop so I'm getting a kick, etc.

Vista isn't as bad as it used to be but Windows 7 still outdoes it by leaps and bounds.
 
2013-01-03 12:28:28 AM

Lsherm: Mentat: My only issue is that Steam crashes all the time.

This would be a pretty big issue for me.  Still, I think 8's biggest problem is that MS hit it out of the park with 7 so there's no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you want to get a touchscreen.  Otherwise, 7 is going to have legs like XP did.  And I say this as an IT professional.

My next Windows laptop will run Windows 8, no doubt, but my gaming rig at the house is bumping along just fine with 7 and probably will for the next two years, so I'm not running out to upgrade it no matter how cheap it is.

Hell, even Apple is getting farking stupid with the updates.  I've gone from Leopard to Snow Leopard to Lion to Mountain Lion and each time the "improvements" don't really seem to outweigh the inconveniences.  I just upgraded to iTunes 11 and while Apple is telling me how great it is, do you know the only thing I notice about it?  I can't double click on the top of the window to minimize it anymore.  That's it.  I could give less of a shiat about the rest of the changes - they took away one "feature" that has been a standard for every Mac App for the past 6 years.

At some point you realize these people are just spinning their wheels trying to get you to buy new hardware, but for all the wrong reasons.


a) this post is spot-on

b) I just helped my uncle buy a new desktop this weekend, and even he didn't want to get 8 since "7 works just fine, and I don't want to be a guinea pig".  I use my computer for a hell of a lot more than he does, and we're in the exact same "if it ain't broke not going to pay to fix it" camp.  Even though he could mail in a rebate and get the 8 upgrade for free.  The SO will probably get 8, but he has a dual boot Windows/Ubuntu setup anyway and is only on Windows when he needs to do more than internet-ing anyway.
 
2013-01-03 12:32:05 AM
I like Win8, especially on multiple monitors- it really improves on Win7 there (taskbar, background spanning, etc).

files.myopera.com
 
2013-01-03 12:32:18 AM

moothemagiccow: I'm a computer nerd and I barely knew it was out. I can't fathom how oblivious normal people are to its existence.


They had a billion dollar ad campaign. Computer nerd under a rock?
 
2013-01-03 12:33:24 AM

APE992: I'm currently using Vista on this laptop so I'm getting a kick, etc.

Vista isn't as bad as it used to be but Windows 7 still outdoes it by leaps and bounds.


I do work for my uncle (hence the new desktop since his crappy refurbished one up and died).  Since the desktop died I've been using Vista on his laptop... and holy crap, does 7 kick its ass.  I can use Vista fine but I just hate it.  Maybe because I was on XP and then 7 at home, but somehow that managed to be the most irritating OS I've dealt with since college.

I have a feeling a lot of older folks learned from that and aren't going to rush into 8... I was working in a tiny town when Vista came out, and I think lots of people who didn't know better felt obligated to buy it, like they had to to keep their computers working.  On two different occasions complete stranger older couples came up to me at lunch since I was young and had a laptop (working lunches always) and asked me to help them with Vista.  I have no idea how many times I helped people at my work on top of that, and it was terribly annoying since you can't audibly curse Microsoft while this sweet old couple is trying to figure out why they can't see those pictures of their grandchildren.
 
2013-01-03 12:33:51 AM

The RIchest Man in Babylon: I like Win8, especially on multiple monitors- it really improves on Win7 there (taskbar, background spanning, etc).


Yeah, it was nice of them to finally include (a few of) the features I used to have to pay UltraMon for.
 
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