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(Forbes)   A third wave blitz of tax tsunami will wash over Americans with a cavalcade of unintended consequences and badly mixed metaphors   (forbes.com) divider line 186
    More: Fail, unintended consequences, Americans, mixed metaphors, tsunamis  
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13154 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jan 2013 at 6:01 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-02 07:27:44 PM

GriffXX: Already had to use Snopes to disprove an image making the rounds implying that all purchases you make would have a the new Medical Excise tax added.


Haven't seen the image but its an interesting idea. How much could you raise in revenue on a 1 cent federal tax vs raising income tax rates?
 
2013-01-02 07:28:44 PM
I think this 2.3% tax will simply be passed onto the buyer in the form of price hikes. I don't necessarily agree with it either but I have a hard time believing it is going to extinguish innovation.
 
2013-01-02 07:28:46 PM

Arimaris: jjorsett: sammyk: xanadian: FTFA: A new Medicare Tax adds to ObamaCare's pain. These same high-earners must pay an additional .9% Medicare payroll tax on wages above $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples. This means the current 2.9% Medicare payroll tax will be increased to a total of 3.8% - a big hit especially for the self-employed ... blah blah words


Nice try, but your common sense doesn't work on me. Back to the thread in progress.
 
2013-01-02 07:30:33 PM
She sounds butthurty.

Did Fox take over Forbes? That was a LOT of whining.
 
2013-01-02 07:39:14 PM

Indubitably: The sound of rich people complaining about taxes:


Their shills, on the other hand?

*cue cacophony*
 
2013-01-02 07:46:40 PM
When something smells rotten in Denmark, turn the other cheek, there's fire.
 
2013-01-02 07:48:51 PM

mark625: OMG! A tax of 2.3% of the GROSS SALES of certain medical devices!?! That's like a.. a.. a.. SALES TAX!

And everyone knows that any government that institutes a SALES TAX on GROSS SALES without accounting for profit/loss will doom all businesses in its jurisdiction. A sales tax has never worked in the past, is not now working in the present, and never will work in the future, anywhere in the world! Obama has doomed all medical device manufacturers in America. DOOOOOMED I SAY!

/or not.


This is just a sneaky trick by Michelle Obama to raise the price of gastric bands and sleeves so people will have to resort to exercise and healthy eating instead of surgery! Don't fall for this socialist - protest by eating as much cholesterol rich food as you can!
 
2013-01-02 07:51:26 PM
Beginning January 1, ObamaCare also tightens the screws on Itemized Medical Deductions. The law raises the threshold for allowed deductions from 7.5% of adjusted gross income to 10%, further burdening those with the largest medical expenses by limiting how much of these costs they can deduct on their taxes. Hit to these taxpayers: $19 billion

So, that means if I make 100k/year I can now deduct $2500 MORE deductions for medical expenses not covered by insurance. Yeah, those are some tight screws there. I even checked just in case it was a reduction and the fact checkers were just out to lunch. Nope, it's an increase since this directly helps everyone in the lower brackets and actually helps you if you are wealthy and sick.

^^^ Umm...No. You're wrong. Maybe if you made 100k/yr you would know this. I'm pretty sure you would know if you made $40k/yr.
1/10
 
2013-01-02 07:51:41 PM

gingerjet: Big Man On Campus: /The USA will be Greece in 10 years. The boomers control of federal spending is so absurdly strong that social services for the aging/sick are only increasing, not decreasing when we need to be cutting spending.

So tired of this talking point.  Greece is fark'd up royally on so many levels that it isn't even funny.  But the primary reason this will never be the case is that we control our own currency.  And other countries are a vested interest in our survival - no one cares about greece.


I think the EU cares about Greece. At least to the extent that they don't want them to start a stampede of countries leaving the EU.
 
2013-01-02 07:52:06 PM

SDRR: When something smells rotten in Denmark, turn the other cheek, there's fire.


Well, we'd better quit screwing around - it's time to firmly grasp that bat and swing for the goalposts.
 
2013-01-02 08:00:05 PM

jso2897: SDRR: When something smells rotten in Denmark, turn the other cheek, there's fire.

Well, we'd better quit screwing around - it's time to firmly grasp that bat and swing for the goalposts.


If we keep our nose to the grindstone and keep moving that ball down the field, then we can knock that ball right out of the park.
 
2013-01-02 08:02:34 PM

jso2897: SDRR: When something smells rotten in Denmark, turn the other cheek, there's fire.

Well, we'd better quit screwing around - it's time to firmly grasp that bat and swing for the goalposts.


Hey.

I live here.

So, STFU.

Show some situational awareness, dumbasses.

Learn your neighbors patterns by listening to them, actually listening to them, and figuring out when they function. Work with them. If you don't actually work, then fuk off, get a job, and adjust to my working habits, you effing neanderthals! It must be rough to be supported by your parents you enmeshed clingy bastages. FO.

Ugh.
 
2013-01-02 08:04:11 PM
Looks like the upper hand is on the other foot!

/thanks Frank!
 
2013-01-02 08:11:23 PM
robdyoung.com
 
2013-01-02 08:12:28 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: FTFA: Those who find the accounts (Flexible spending accounts) most valuable are those with the greatest health needs - parents of special needs children, people who have had organ transplants and who must take maintenance drugs, and others facing major medical expenses.

I'm having trouble believing this part. The people most likely to blow through their FSA find the FSA most valuable? Or is this just because an FSA is cheaper than insurance for an organ transplant or a special needs child?


FSA never covered our medical expenses, even at $5K, and we have no physical disability. (DD/autism)

FSA Contribution Limits By Year
Be sure to check with your employer as 2011 and 2012 FSA limits will still be designated by employers:
2011: No limit, most employers use $5,000 maximum
2012: No limit, most employers use $5,000 maximum
2013: $2,500 maximum per employee


Read more: http://www.mydollarplan.com/flexible-spending-account-changes/#ixzz2Gs 27Ntq4
 
2013-01-02 08:15:40 PM

sammyk: xanadian: FTFA: A new Medicare Tax adds to ObamaCare's pain. These same high-earners must pay an additional .9% Medicare payroll tax on wages above $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples. This means the current 2.9% Medicare payroll tax will be increased to a total of 3.8% - a big hit especially for the self-employed.

Funny... IIRC, the Medicare payroll tax was about 3.8% when I was younger. Are these people SURE this "tax hike" has nothing to do with certain payroll tax cuts expiring? And little if nothing at all to do with Obamacare?

No, it's a legit tax that is part of ACA. I don't know how the poor things are supposed to create jobs with an addition soul crushing tax of .9%


And that additional 0.9% is ONLY on the wages about the $200,000/250,000 threshold.

So if my self-employment incomes bumps from $200K (I wish) to $250K, I'll pay an additional $450 in SE Tax above what I would have paid with the lower rate. In the broader view, the total self-employment tax on a person with the new "big hit" (the author's words) $19,452. If the Medicare rate hadn't bumped up and stayed at 2.9%, that same person would pay $19, 002. That's an increase of around 2.3%.

I'm OK with this.
 
2013-01-02 08:16:39 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: They're drinking from a fountain that's pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain.


I had not listened to that in years; it is still stunning in its simpleness. Thank you.
 
2013-01-02 08:16:51 PM
Obama's plan has turned America's middle class into a starving coyote futilely chasing the road runner of prosperity through the desert of deprivation before running off the edge of the fiscal cliff and collapsing into the .... no. America is the deadbeat 47-percent coyote chasing the road runner of plush welfare benefits through the desert of godless values ... something something tax increase.
 
2013-01-02 08:17:28 PM
To Meta-fer
 
2013-01-02 08:17:31 PM

DamnYankees: Big Man On Campus: The most controversial of the latest ObamaCare taxes is the Medical Device Tax that hits entrepreneurial firms making equipment such as heart valves and hip replacement parts. They face a 2.3% profit on gross sales - a tax they must pay even if they have no profit at all. Many firms say this tax - slated to collect $29 billion over 10 years - will soak up virtually all of their research budgets.

If the entire profit margin of the average medical device company is represented by 2.3% of gross sales of specific items, I'll eat a shoe.


its not.
a sampling of after-tax profit margins:

Becton, Dickinson 14.39
Covidien plc 16.05
Teleflex Inc 7.96
C.R. Bard, Inc. 11.32
Thermo Fisher 8.70
Bio-Rad Laboratories 8.59
 
2013-01-02 08:18:43 PM
And then the thread was engulfed in an inferno of everlasting derp.
 
2013-01-02 08:19:05 PM

Goddess of Atheism: Obama's plan has turned America's middle class into a starving coyote futilely chasing the road runner of prosperity through the desert of deprivation before running off the edge of the fiscal cliff and collapsing into the .... no. America is the deadbeat 47-percent coyote chasing the road runner of plush welfare benefits through the desert of godless values ... something something tax increase.


You aren't serious, sir?

For if you are: stfu, plz. u r trded.
 
2013-01-02 08:22:24 PM
Says the twunt whose right-wing think tank pimps utter bullshiat like this:

"Consumers and their physicians should have authority and responsibility over health care decisions, and the vibrant free market will encourage research and innovation and provide better access to new medical technologies." "A market that supports innovation will lead to lower costs, expanded choice, and increased access to better medical care."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galen_Institute

Yeah, fark you too, lady.
 
2013-01-02 08:22:57 PM
Everything I read in this article made me happy.

Good.
 
2013-01-02 08:23:19 PM

Pointy Tail of Satan: I especially love how Americans have to pay US income tax even if living in another country, and getting paid by a non-US employer.


That's a half-truth. You must file taxes in the US when working abroad but if a tax treaty exists you will get credit for whatever taxes you paid in the nation where you work. Assuming that nation has higher taxes than the US (which is a pretty good bet) then you will owe nothing at all in the US. Offhand I don't know which countries have no tax treaty and would end up doubly-taxing you but I imagine it's a short list.

The annoyance of this is the main reason I will not become a US citizen, although if I had kids I would suck it up and naturalize. As DINKs there isn't much benefit. Estate tax is about the only thing but I don't plan to die in the US. And if I do my wife is on her own! ;)
 
2013-01-02 08:25:32 PM

AliasSally: I'd like to see her sources. There's been a cap on my HSA for the past 2 years that I've had it. I'm gonna guess the rest of the article is also full of crap.


HSA != FSA
 
2013-01-02 08:30:52 PM
FTFA The law raises the threshold for allowed deductions from 7.5% of adjusted gross income to 10%, further burdening those with the largest medical expenses by limiting how much of these costs they can deduct on their taxes. Hit to these taxpayers: $19 billion.

Explain how this hurts.
 
2013-01-02 08:32:52 PM

GardenWeasel: Then they can renounce their citizenship. If they want the privileges, benefits, and protection of the USA, then they need to help pay for it.


Except none of those things you mention applies if you live outside the country.
 
2013-01-02 08:33:12 PM

Ficoce: Beginning January 1, ObamaCare also tightens the screws on Itemized Medical Deductions. The law raises the threshold for allowed deductions from 7.5% of adjusted gross income to 10%, further burdening those with the largest medical expenses by limiting how much of these costs they can deduct on their taxes. Hit to these taxpayers: $19 billion

So, that means if I make 100k/year I can now deduct $2500 MORE deductions for medical expenses not covered by insurance. Yeah, those are some tight screws there. I even checked just in case it was a reduction and the fact checkers were just out to lunch. Nope, it's an increase since this directly helps everyone in the lower brackets and actually helps you if you are wealthy and sick.

^^^ Umm...No. You're wrong. Maybe if you made 100k/yr you would know this. I'm pretty sure you would know if you made $40k/yr.
1/10


True, it means you would have to have 10K in unreimbursed expenses rather than 7500 if you made 100K. As someone who once had 118% of AGI in unreimbursed expenses, let me tell you that 2.5% in extra expenses is just going to kill people with major medical problems. I mean, that would have meant I only had 1 year of loss carryforward instead of 2.

\You can tell this tax doesn't mean a thing when the most this tard coul see it raising is 19 billion dollars.
 
2013-01-02 08:35:43 PM

scandalrag: Ficoce: Beginning January 1, ObamaCare also tightens the screws on Itemized Medical Deductions. The law raises the threshold for allowed deductions from 7.5% of adjusted gross income to 10%, further burdening those with the largest medical expenses by limiting how much of these costs they can deduct on their taxes. Hit to these taxpayers: $19 billion

So, that means if I make 100k/year I can now deduct $2500 MORE deductions for medical expenses not covered by insurance. Yeah, those are some tight screws there. I even checked just in case it was a reduction and the fact checkers were just out to lunch. Nope, it's an increase since this directly helps everyone in the lower brackets and actually helps you if you are wealthy and sick.

^^^ Umm...No. You're wrong. Maybe if you made 100k/yr you would know this. I'm pretty sure you would know if you made $40k/yr.
1/10

True, it means you would have to have 10K in unreimbursed expenses rather than 7500 if you made 100K. As someone who once had 118% of AGI in unreimbursed expenses, let me tell you that 2.5% in extra expenses is just going to kill people with major medical problems. I mean, that would have meant I only had 1 year of loss carryforward instead of 2.

\You can tell this tax doesn't mean a thing when the most this tard coul see it raising is 19 billion dollars.


\\to wharf
 
2013-01-02 08:37:07 PM

Jument: Pointy Tail of Satan: I especially love how Americans have to pay US income tax even if living in another country, and getting paid by a non-US employer.

That's a half-truth. You must file taxes in the US when working abroad but if a tax treaty exists you will get credit for whatever taxes you paid in the nation where you work. Assuming that nation has higher taxes than the US (which is a pretty good bet) then you will owe nothing at all in the US. Offhand I don't know which countries have no tax treaty and would end up doubly-taxing you but I imagine it's a short list.


actually, the list is pretty long, includes Brazil, Singapore, UAE.

Link
 
2013-01-02 08:40:43 PM

Ficoce: Beginning January 1, ObamaCare also tightens the screws on Itemized Medical Deductions. The law raises the threshold for allowed deductions from 7.5% of adjusted gross income to 10%, further burdening those with the largest medical expenses by limiting how much of these costs they can deduct on their taxes. Hit to these taxpayers: $19 billion

So, that means if I make 100k/year I can now deduct $2500 MORE deductions for medical expenses not covered by insurance. Yeah, those are some tight screws there. I even checked just in case it was a reduction and the fact checkers were just out to lunch. Nope, it's an increase since this directly helps everyone in the lower brackets and actually helps you if you are wealthy and sick.

^^^ Umm...No. You're wrong. Maybe if you made 100k/yr you would know this. I'm pretty sure you would know if you made $40k/yr.
1/10


Thank god the original poster you quoted "fact checked" that for us.
It's an expense threshold, not bonus deductions. I've never had medical out of pocket expenses exceed the deduction threshold in every year since I had been itemizing deductions. Now, I can just skip that section of the return in its entirety since I know I'd have to get my ass kicked with medical expenses even more than I did this past year in order to even get the deduction.
 
2013-01-02 08:46:12 PM

Bruce Campbell: Ficoce: Beginning January 1, ObamaCare also tightens the screws on Itemized Medical Deductions. The law raises the threshold for allowed deductions from 7.5% of adjusted gross income to 10%, further burdening those with the largest medical expenses by limiting how much of these costs they can deduct on their taxes. Hit to these taxpayers: $19 billion

So, that means if I make 100k/year I can now deduct $2500 MORE deductions for medical expenses not covered by insurance. Yeah, those are some tight screws there. I even checked just in case it was a reduction and the fact checkers were just out to lunch. Nope, it's an increase since this directly helps everyone in the lower brackets and actually helps you if you are wealthy and sick.

^^^ Umm...No. You're wrong. Maybe if you made 100k/yr you would know this. I'm pretty sure you would know if you made $40k/yr.
1/10

Thank god the original poster you quoted "fact checked" that for us.
It's an expense threshold, not bonus deductions. I've never had medical out of pocket expenses exceed the deduction threshold in every year since I had been itemizing deductions. Now, I can just skip that section of the return in its entirety since I know I'd have to get my ass kicked with medical expenses even more than I did this past year in order to even get the deduction.


To deduct
 
2013-01-02 08:47:50 PM

Igor Jakovsky: Obamacare: You can't polish a turd.


But you can roll it in glitter.
 
2013-01-02 08:50:13 PM
Indubitably, do you have a quota or something?
 
2013-01-02 08:52:10 PM

Wangiss: Indubitably, do you have a quota or something?


In what sense?
 
2013-01-02 08:58:07 PM

Bruce Campbell: Ficoce: Beginning January 1, ObamaCare also tightens the screws on Itemized Medical Deductions. The law raises the threshold for allowed deductions from 7.5% of adjusted gross income to 10%, further burdening those with the largest medical expenses by limiting how much of these costs they can deduct on their taxes. Hit to these taxpayers: $19 billion

So, that means if I make 100k/year I can now deduct $2500 MORE deductions for medical expenses not covered by insurance. Yeah, those are some tight screws there. I even checked just in case it was a reduction and the fact checkers were just out to lunch. Nope, it's an increase since this directly helps everyone in the lower brackets and actually helps you if you are wealthy and sick.

^^^ Umm...No. You're wrong. Maybe if you made 100k/yr you would know this. I'm pretty sure you would know if you made $40k/yr.
1/10

Thank god the original poster you quoted "fact checked" that for us.
It's an expense threshold, not bonus deductions. I've never had medical out of pocket expenses exceed the deduction threshold in every year since I had been itemizing deductions. Now, I can just skip that section of the return in its entirety since I know I'd have to get my ass kicked with medical expenses even more than I did this past year in order to even get the deduction.


We came really close one year - and that means we were really hurting. 10%? That's going to hurt more than a few two wage earner families with kids - or middle aged couples trying to save some type of retirement. I bet half the people reading that think it's a great deal. For those that don't know, this means your out of pocket medical has to be at least 10% of your before tax income before you can write it off. In other words, good luck.
 
2013-01-02 09:08:41 PM

KyDave: A bird in the hand is worth two in the BUSHES FAULT


Fixed.
 
2013-01-02 09:24:12 PM

Indubitably: Wangiss: Indubitably, do you have a quota or something?

In what sense?


to post sentence fragments
 
2013-01-02 09:29:20 PM

Wangiss: Indubitably: Wangiss: Indubitably, do you have a quota or something?

In what sense?

to post sentence fragments


Cute.
 
2013-01-02 09:29:56 PM

Indubitably: Wangiss: Indubitably: Wangiss: Indubitably, do you have a quota or something?

In what sense?

to post sentence fragments

Cute.


To poet is too hard for you?
 
2013-01-02 09:30:35 PM

Indubitably: Indubitably: Wangiss: Indubitably: Wangiss: Indubitably, do you have a quota or something?

In what sense?

to post sentence fragments

Cute.

To poet is too hard for you?


Nope.
 
2013-01-02 09:32:47 PM

No Time To Explain: You Americans call it a fiscal cliff, I call it a fiscal bukkake

/mostly because it's fun watching fox and CNN lackeys go apeshiat over it
//way I read and understood it, it's no big deal, get over it and part your debts America


No! You!

This is the level of discourse here now.
 
2013-01-02 09:34:30 PM

hdhale: Hydra: Looks like they just kicked the can down the road into the perfect storm of black swans.

/seriously, though, we're farked

We are getting the ass farking we asked for in the voting booth and may we be ever so grateful for it.

Next time you "independents" start thinking about voting strictly on basis of your liberal social issues, remember this day and smack yourself. There's bigger issues to worry about than whether or not your cousin's friend who has a brother who thinks he might have found the right guy to settle down with can get married. I think they should be able to, but I also think that serious budget deficits matter more, and Barry isn't the guy to fix them.


Yeah, I miss W too.
 
2013-01-02 09:37:17 PM

Evil High Priest: No Time To Explain: You Americans call it a fiscal cliff, I call it a fiscal bukkake

/mostly because it's fun watching fox and CNN lackeys go apeshiat over it
//way I read and understood it, it's no big deal, get over it and part your debts America

No! You!

This is the level of discourse here now.


Did you seriously just say that here?

"...let loose the dogs of cyberwar..."

*)
 
2013-01-02 09:40:05 PM

Evil High Priest: hdhale: Hydra: Looks like they just kicked the can down the road into the perfect storm of black swans.

/seriously, though, we're farked

We are getting the ass farking we asked for in the voting booth and may we be ever so grateful for it.

Next time you "independents" start thinking about voting strictly on basis of your liberal social issues, remember this day and smack yourself. There's bigger issues to worry about than whether or not your cousin's friend who has a brother who thinks he might have found the right guy to settle down with can get married. I think they should be able to, but I also think that serious budget deficits matter more, and Barry isn't the guy to fix them.

Yeah, I miss W too.


You are an idiot. You should surrender your money, possessions, and influence immediately.
 
2013-01-02 09:51:44 PM

mark625: OMG! A tax of 2.3% of the GROSS SALES of certain medical devices!?! That's like a.. a.. a.. SALES TAX!

And everyone knows that any government that institutes a SALES TAX on GROSS SALES without accounting for profit/loss will doom all businesses in its jurisdiction. A sales tax has never worked in the past, is not now working in the present, and never will work in the future, anywhere in the world! Obama has doomed all medical device manufacturers in America. DOOOOOMED I SAY!

/or not.


Maybe, maybe not,

However, I can tell you with absolute certainty that since ObamaCare was voted on, some of the largest medical manufacturing companies on the planet have all been feverishly working to move operations offshore. Last year alone I know of at least a few major production lines that have either been folded up completely or relocated to other countries.

Weather or not the tax increase would actually hurt the bottom line is irrelevant when the companies believe it will hurt them, and will do anything in their power to avoid paying up. The simple perception of danger is the real threat.

/supplier of manufacturing equipment for most of the larger medical manufacturing companies
//a large portion of our tech support last year was installation of machines to offshore plants.
 
2013-01-02 09:54:40 PM

Driedsponge: mark625: OMG! A tax of 2.3% of the GROSS SALES of certain medical devices!?! That's like a.. a.. a.. SALES TAX!

And everyone knows that any government that institutes a SALES TAX on GROSS SALES without accounting for profit/loss will doom all businesses in its jurisdiction. A sales tax has never worked in the past, is not now working in the present, and never will work in the future, anywhere in the world! Obama has doomed all medical device manufacturers in America. DOOOOOMED I SAY!

/or not.

Maybe, maybe not,

However, I can tell you with absolute certainty that since ObamaCare was voted on, some of the largest medical manufacturing companies on the planet have all been feverishly working to move operations offshore. Last year alone I know of at least a few major production lines that have either been folded up completely or relocated to other countries.

Weather or not the tax increase would actually hurt the bottom line is irrelevant when the companies believe it will hurt them, and will do anything in their power to avoid paying up. The simple perception of danger is the real threat.

/supplier of manufacturing equipment for most of the larger medical manufacturing companies
//a large portion of our tech support last year was installation of machines to offshore plants.


ONSHORE, jahkhahys!
 
2013-01-02 09:56:04 PM

Indubitably: Indubitably: Indubitably: Wangiss: Indubitably: Wangiss: Indubitably, do you have a quota or something?

In what sense?

to post sentence fragments

Cute.

To poet is too hard for you?

Nope.


I write songs occasionally.
 
2013-01-02 09:57:45 PM

Wangiss: Indubitably: Indubitably: Indubitably: Wangiss: Indubitably: Wangiss: Indubitably, do you have a quota or something?

In what sense?

to post sentence fragments

Cute.

To poet is too hard for you?

Nope.

I write songs occasionally.


That's nice.
 
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