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(Forbes)   A third wave blitz of tax tsunami will wash over Americans with a cavalcade of unintended consequences and badly mixed metaphors   (forbes.com) divider line 186
    More: Fail, unintended consequences, Americans, mixed metaphors, tsunamis  
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13166 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jan 2013 at 6:01 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-02 06:36:31 PM  
holy shiat is Forbes owned by News Corp or something? Can we have an UNBIASED view on this please Forbes.
 
2013-01-02 06:37:18 PM  

Insatiable Jesus: The author's bio at that page:

Grace-Marie Turner
Contributor
I'm president of the Galen Institute, a non-profit research organization that focuses on market-driven health policy, and a co-author of Why ObamaCare Is Wrong for America.

LOL.


I know, right? After reading that little tidbit, I was SURE the article would be "fair and balanced."
 
2013-01-02 06:38:11 PM  

hdhale: Next time you "independents" start thinking about voting strictly on basis of your liberal social issues, remember this day and smack yourself. There's bigger issues to worry about than whether or not your cousin's friend who has a brother who thinks he might have found the right guy to settle down with can get married. I think they should be able to, but I also think that serious budget deficits matter more, and Barry isn't the guy to fix them.


And Mitt Romney who wanted to add 2 trillion to the military which they didn't ask for and give more tax cuts to the rich was the guy to fix the budget deficit? Never mind the Republicans terrible track record on budget deficits anyway, Bush doubled our debt, Reagan tripled it, while Clinton temporarily balanced our deficit.

Sure, Republicans talk a big game about cutting spending, but when it comes down to specifics it is always programs they don't like which cost nearly nothing like PBS or Planned Parenthood, while whatever little in short term savings they produce are immediately wasted on more tax cuts for the wealthy and more money for military contractors.

"Barry" has done a better job keeping our country running despite Republican attempts to run us aground. As for our deficit, it is a problem, but put in perspective there are some 10-12 countries with a higher debt to gdp ratio than the US, we have some leeway not to throw temper tantrums and create a make believe crisis. Cutting spending can lower our deficit, but so can raising tax, so can lowering unemployment and growing our economy. The failure of Republicans is that they only looked at the first one in the most abstract way while refusing to budge on the second issue or consider the third.
 
2013-01-02 06:38:44 PM  

Big Man On Campus: The most controversial of the latest ObamaCare taxes is the Medical Device Tax that hits entrepreneurial firms making equipment such as heart valves and hip replacement parts. They face a 2.3% profit on gross sales - a tax they must pay even if they have no profit at all. Many firms say this tax - slated to collect $29 billion over 10 years - will soak up virtually all of their research budgets.


If the entire profit margin of the average medical device company is represented by 2.3% of gross sales of specific items, I'll eat a shoe.
 
2013-01-02 06:39:00 PM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: I especially love how Americans have to pay US income tax even if living in another country, and getting paid by a non-US employer.


That is horrible... having to pay taxes for useless crap that they have in the US that you don't have in a foreign country. Like an Embassy or State Department that will work to make sure your rights are protected as an expatriate. Or that useless foreign service that keeps domestic people posted on threats around the world. A person abroad definitely has no use of the vast military that only protects and provides a stabilizing force only in the domestic borders of the US. Or how last year everyone was able to ignore the first $95,100 of their domestic income they earned.

Yeah, it is terrible that a US citizen living abroad has to pay taxes, if they earn enough, on such a wide range of useless services they will never need.
 
2013-01-02 06:39:50 PM  
Wait a minute, health care gets an overhaul AND none of the tax increases effect me or my special needs child? That sounds awesome to me, what's everyone biatching about?
 
2013-01-02 06:41:30 PM  

DamnYankees: Big Man On Campus: The most controversial of the latest ObamaCare taxes is the Medical Device Tax that hits entrepreneurial firms making equipment such as heart valves and hip replacement parts. They face a 2.3% profit on gross sales - a tax they must pay even if they have no profit at all. Many firms say this tax - slated to collect $29 billion over 10 years - will soak up virtually all of their research budgets.

If the entire profit margin of the average medical device company is represented by 2.3% of gross sales of specific items, I'll eat a shoe.


Why tax companies that are trying to innovate and as-yet make no profit? That's like taxing all NASA employees just because.
 
2013-01-02 06:42:48 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: Obamacare: You can't polish a turd.


If Mythbusters can do it then... nevemind Congress can't do anything
 
2013-01-02 06:43:13 PM  
img.photobucket.com

/i tried to warn you, i tried to warn you
 
2013-01-02 06:43:59 PM  

Big Man On Campus: Why tax companies that are trying to innovate and as-yet make no profit? That's like taxing all NASA employees just because.


Well, it's not a tax on innovation. It's a tax on sales of medical devices. For example, selling plastic gloves to hospitals. This is just a sales tax on that. Categorizing it as a tax on innovation is just as silly as saying the income tax is a tax on innovators. These are both simply general taxes on certain types of transactions; they don't target innovation.
 
2013-01-02 06:46:00 PM  

wingnut396: hdhale: I think they should be able to, but I also think that serious budget deficits matter more, and Barry isn't the guy to fix them

Damn right! The guy that wanted to build more warships and that was itching to go to war with Iran was most definitely the guy that would have balanced the budget! Just like how the last Republican brought down the deficit by granting a huge tax cut AND had two wars. Nothing like blowing up crap in the desert to make the long term numbers look good!



...And so, clearly, the only way to fix what that stupid, evil last Republican did is to continue the huge tax cuts for 5 years, and spend at least as much, if not more. Nothing like giving away free lunches to keep the Proles happy. Ignorance is Strength. Yay: the 5-Minute Hate is coming up. Everybody come laugh at the vid that shows those stupid Eurasian refugees getting blown up (that's my favorite vid of the Eastasians).

/ And to hell with that stupid evil GW Bush-Goldstein-Haliburton
// *spits*
 
2013-01-02 06:46:08 PM  
Wow, that writer is not shy about being a shill for the business sector. It's like reading Ben Bernanke's diary.
 
2013-01-02 06:47:21 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: Obamacare: You can't polish a turd.


Mythbusters proved you can.
 
2013-01-02 06:48:01 PM  

sammyk: xanadian: FTFA: A new Medicare Tax adds to ObamaCare's pain. These same high-earners must pay an additional .9% Medicare payroll tax on wages above $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples. This means the current 2.9% Medicare payroll tax will be increased to a total of 3.8% - a big hit especially for the self-employed.

Funny... IIRC, the Medicare payroll tax was about 3.8% when I was younger. Are these people SURE this "tax hike" has nothing to do with certain payroll tax cuts expiring? And little if nothing at all to do with Obamacare?

No, it's a legit tax that is part of ACA. I don't know how the poor things are supposed to create jobs with an addition soul crushing tax of .9%


"Everybody should be willing to pay a little bit more," that's the continual mantra of the tax raisers. Then when you add up all the little bits they want, it suddenly becomes a ginormous shiatload. That $6 a day of Starbucks coffee sounds like a little bit, yet at the end of the year you're out a couple of grand.
 
2013-01-02 06:48:21 PM  

DamnYankees: Big Man On Campus: Why tax companies that are trying to innovate and as-yet make no profit? That's like taxing all NASA employees just because.

Well, it's not a tax on innovation. It's a tax on sales of medical devices. For example, selling plastic gloves to hospitals. This is just a sales tax on that. Categorizing it as a tax on innovation is just as silly as saying the income tax is a tax on innovators. These are both simply general taxes on certain types of transactions; they don't target innovation.


You use profit to do research. Research creates innovation. Without research, there will be little to no innovation.

/extrapolated, but the point remains
 
2013-01-02 06:48:36 PM  

Big Man On Campus: This tax is stupid, regardless of how real the claim of destroyed research budgets is. The best part about America's medical industry has always been the innovation. For decades the best answer to "why is medical care in America so expensive?" was "because they're fixing my cancer with tiny robots" (yes I'm exagerrating, but you get the point).

Why tax the innovative parts of your industry to "improve" the industry? It just makes no sense.


Because most of the improvements are actually done at universities, on government grants?

Which need money to run? Sorry, private industry, what with their short-term focus these days, SUCK for funding research. Because you don't know going *in* to the research if it's going to pan out or not. If we did, we'd call it engineering, not research.
 
2013-01-02 06:49:29 PM  

DamnYankees: Big Man On Campus: Why tax companies that are trying to innovate and as-yet make no profit? That's like taxing all NASA employees just because.

Well, it's not a tax on innovation. It's a tax on sales of medical devices. For example, selling plastic gloves to hospitals. This is just a sales tax on that. Categorizing it as a tax on innovation is just as silly as saying the income tax is a tax on innovators. These are both simply general taxes on certain types of transactions; they don't target innovation.


It is a tax on innovation if I don't yet have a profitable line of medical devices because doctors have not yet discovered just how wonderful my device is. That's what that is saying, it's saying that any medical device company, regardless of whether or not their sales have them running in the black, must pay this tax on gross income. That hurts innovation because in order for small-money medical device innovators to get onto the market, they have to get their stuff out there. This tax only increases how much they have to run into the red before a device turns a profit. That can only hurt innovation.
 
2013-01-02 06:49:55 PM  

Big Man On Campus: /The USA will be Greece in 10 years. The boomers control of federal spending is so absurdly strong that social services for the aging/sick are only increasing, not decreasing when we need to be cutting spending.


So tired of this talking point.  Greece is fark'd up royally on so many levels that it isn't even funny.  But the primary reason this will never be the case is that we control our own currency.  And other countries are a vested interest in our survival - no one cares about greece.
 
2013-01-02 06:51:48 PM  

ReverendJynxed: Igor Jakovsky: Obamacare: You can't polish a turd.

Mythbusters proved you can.


A turd that looks good on the surface is certainly an apt metaphor for Obamacare.
 
2013-01-02 06:52:33 PM  

Deep Contact: 3 minutes to read over the bill? Why even have a Senate?


"Yup, it's a bill."
 
2013-01-02 06:52:39 PM  
Well how else are going to pay to unionize the death panels?
 
2013-01-02 06:53:09 PM  

grinding_journalist: You use profit to do research. Research creates innovation. Without research, there will be little to no innovation.


People use income to buy food. Food provides energy. Energy helps innovate. Without energy, there will be little to no innovation. Are you also against the income tax on this basis, since we are taxing innovators?
 
2013-01-02 06:54:10 PM  

Big Man On Campus: It is a tax on innovation if I don't yet have a profitable line of medical devices because doctors have not yet discovered just how wonderful my device is.


It's only a tax on sales. If they haven't discovered your device, they aren't buying it, and there's no tax.

Big Man On Campus: This tax only increases how much they have to run into the red before a device turns a profit. That can only hurt innovation.


How is this different than any other tax?
 
2013-01-02 06:54:53 PM  

Gwyrddu: hdhale:

Sure, Republicans talk a big game about cutting spending, but when it comes down to specifics it is always programs they don't like which cost nearly nothing like PBS or Planned Parenthood, while whatever little in short term savings they produce are immediately wasted on more tax cuts for the wealthy and more money for military contractors.


(Unsubstantiated assertion) That's because Republican business owners are the principal recipients of the Military-Industrial Complex budget.
 
2013-01-02 06:55:38 PM  

Pants full of macaroni!!: [img.photobucket.com image 600x387]

/i tried to warn you, i tried to warn you


i291.photobucket.com

You think your world is safe? It is an illusion. A comforting lie told to protect you.
 
2013-01-02 06:56:06 PM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: I especially love how Americans have to pay US income tax even if living in another country, and getting paid by a non-US employer.


Then they can renounce their citizenship. If they want the privileges, benefits, and protection of the USA, then they need to help pay for it.
 
2013-01-02 06:57:15 PM  
"How is this different than any other tax?"

It's different because my company only gets taxed on profit, not gross sales revenue.
 
2013-01-02 06:59:36 PM  

Wangiss: "How is this different than any other tax?"

It's different because my company only gets taxed on profit, not gross sales revenue.


This is an excise tax, true. It's not a tax on profits. But excise taxes are very common. So why the freakout on this?
 
2013-01-02 07:00:42 PM  

AgentGerbil: holy shiat is Forbes owned by News Corp or something? Can we have an UNBIASED view on this please Forbes.


You will be receiving an unbiased view when next you look at your pay stub.
 
2013-01-02 07:02:01 PM  

DamnYankees: Big Man On Campus: It is a tax on innovation if I don't yet have a profitable line of medical devices because doctors have not yet discovered just how wonderful my device is.

It's only a tax on sales. If they haven't discovered your device, they aren't buying it, and there's no tax.

Big Man On Campus: This tax only increases how much they have to run into the red before a device turns a profit. That can only hurt innovation.

How is this different than any other tax?


Also, this strawman just doesn't exist. It takes $100M to get a medical device to market, 2.3% sales tax would require sales of over $4B before the sales tax is the reason you can't create a new device.
 
2013-01-02 07:02:06 PM  
OMG! A tax of 2.3% of the GROSS SALES of certain medical devices!?! That's like a.. a.. a.. SALES TAX!

And everyone knows that any government that institutes a SALES TAX on GROSS SALES without accounting for profit/loss will doom all businesses in its jurisdiction. A sales tax has never worked in the past, is not now working in the present, and never will work in the future, anywhere in the world! Obama has doomed all medical device manufacturers in America. DOOOOOMED I SAY!

/or not.
 
2013-01-02 07:03:40 PM  
The typical markup on a medical device is 60%-100%.
 
2013-01-02 07:03:44 PM  
It's no use beating this dead horse, because Obama is back in the saddle now!
 
2013-01-02 07:04:17 PM  

Raoul Eaton: It's no use beating this dead horse, because Obama is back in the saddle now!


that's a horse of a different color.
 
2013-01-02 07:04:18 PM  
Are you being racist or are you just happy to see me?
 
2013-01-02 07:04:31 PM  
silly people. you need to start thinking more 'corporately'. You have to pay taxes on the money THEY CAN FIND. Set up a single member LLC, file form 8832, and choose to be a seperate entity. Pay yourself a reasonable payroll, taxes on that payroll, and hide your cash. All corporations are are welfare dynasties with nice clothes. Speaking of welfare, if you pick a number low enough, you can get food stamps, too!!! Subsidize your life, citizen. Corporations are sexy.
 
2013-01-02 07:08:03 PM  
To cliff another day?
 
2013-01-02 07:09:47 PM  

KyDave: .And so, clearly, the only way to fix what that stupid, evil last Republican did is to continue the huge tax cuts for 5 years, and spend at least as much, if not more.


You 100% correct. So guess during the midterms you will not be voting for Generic Candidate (R) as Republicans in the House have been the main drag against raising taxes in any form, due to signing a pledge devised by a 12 year old muppet?
 
2013-01-02 07:10:32 PM  

jjorsett: sammyk: xanadian: FTFA: A new Medicare Tax adds to ObamaCare's pain. These same high-earners must pay an additional .9% Medicare payroll tax on wages above $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples. This means the current 2.9% Medicare payroll tax will be increased to a total of 3.8% - a big hit especially for the self-employed.

Funny... IIRC, the Medicare payroll tax was about 3.8% when I was younger. Are these people SURE this "tax hike" has nothing to do with certain payroll tax cuts expiring? And little if nothing at all to do with Obamacare?

No, it's a legit tax that is part of ACA. I don't know how the poor things are supposed to create jobs with an addition soul crushing tax of .9%

"Everybody should be willing to pay a little bit more," that's the continual mantra of the tax raisers. Then when you add up all the little bits they want, it suddenly becomes a ginormous shiatload. That $6 a day of Starbucks coffee sounds like a little bit, yet at the end of the year you're out a couple of grand.


But, I don't pay anything here. At all. And I am actually above the average income for a household in the United States. So, why are we complaining again? This seems like the people who DO pay under this plan asked "Who can we pay to complain about taxes and "Obamacare" and piss off our lower class peons enough that we don't have to pay for too long?"

The reality is that we have a situation here where people with lots of money know they need to upset people who don't have enough money so they work to twist the story in a way that upsets everyone who it doesn't even affect in any way. The best example has to be this from TFA:

Beginning January 1, ObamaCare also tightens the screws on Itemized Medical Deductions. The law raises the threshold for allowed deductions from 7.5% of adjusted gross income to 10%, further burdening those with the largest medical expenses by limiting how much of these costs they can deduct on their taxes. Hit to these taxpayers: $19 billion

So, that means if I make 100k/year I can now deduct $2500 MORE deductions for medical expenses not covered by insurance. Yeah, those are some tight screws there. I even checked just in case it was a reduction and the fact checkers were just out to lunch. Nope, it's an increase since this directly helps everyone in the lower brackets and actually helps you if you are wealthy and sick.

I get it. I am not a fan of Obama. The fact is he has approaches I disagree with including how to improve medical coverage in the United States, but lets just build a bridge people. Stop the stupid. Take the time to actually learn what is happening and make it so these articles are powerless to influence you. Realize that we cannot actually afford to reduce taxes at this point unless somehow our economy goes just insane which is highly unlikely. We DO need to suck it up and pay more. Across the board. We also need to have our government reduce their costs until the debt is under control. We also need to realize that the Affordable Healthcare Act is a pretty dang good idea for anyone who is earning anything below about double the average.

I do like the idea that Mark Cuban put out there of tying taxes to unemployment. If the Unemployment drops BELOW 6% the top earners have a lower tax rate. I think we should do that at 6, 3, and even 2%. Encourage the ones with the money to find ways to make more jobs. Let them figure out "Ok, how many jobs will it take to get my taxes down?" Never going to happen, but we can dream!
 
2013-01-02 07:12:02 PM  
They're drinking from a fountain that's pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain.
 
2013-01-02 07:12:54 PM  
This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and sometimes the good you do won't do you any good.

/am I doing this right?
//obscure?
 
2013-01-02 07:13:02 PM  
Yet the 47% - The Liberal Freeloaders, will keep Freeloading On!
 
2013-01-02 07:15:14 PM  

jjorsett: sammyk: xanadian: FTFA: A new Medicare Tax adds to ObamaCare's pain. These same high-earners must pay an additional .9% Medicare payroll tax on wages above $200,000 for individuals and $250,000 for couples. This means the current 2.9% Medicare payroll tax will be increased to a total of 3.8% - a big hit especially for the self-employed.

Funny... IIRC, the Medicare payroll tax was about 3.8% when I was younger. Are these people SURE this "tax hike" has nothing to do with certain payroll tax cuts expiring? And little if nothing at all to do with Obamacare?

No, it's a legit tax that is part of ACA. I don't know how the poor things are supposed to create jobs with an addition soul crushing tax of .9%

"Everybody should be willing to pay a little bit more," that's the continual mantra of the tax raisers. Then when you add up all the little bits they want, it suddenly becomes a ginormous shiatload. That $6 a day of Starbucks coffee sounds like a little bit, yet at the end of the year you're out a couple of grand.


A person making 350k a year would pay an extra $900 a year for this tax. Cry moar dumbass
 
2013-01-02 07:15:15 PM  
Surtax on Investment Income, Medicare Tax, and Flexible Spending Account Tax doesn't affect me because I'm middle-class.

Itemized Medical Deductions, goes from 7.5% to 10% of AGI, with that high cost of medical care cost in this country I don't see this 2.5% increase affecting people that much.

Now comes the Medical Device Tax, obviously can't affect me directly, though cost would trickled down the patients, however I'm calling shenanigans on the 2.3% increase doing this: "Many say that to survive, they will have no choice but to relocate abroad - taking much-needed, high-tech jobs with them." This is such BS, I work in a hospital and have work closely with our buyers and work sometimes directly with the vendors, they jack up the cost of these products so much it's not even funny, they could take a 10% tax and survive, granted if they did go up that much I would miss the free lunches they hand out like candy to get people to buy their products. Only thing that 2.3% increase will do is cause the CEO to drive a car that's *gasp* one year old.
 
2013-01-02 07:16:09 PM  
The sound of rich people complaining about taxes:
 
2013-01-02 07:20:25 PM  
Why is no one talking about the 2% increase in taxes on all earned income under like $108,000 as a result of the expiration of the Obama payroll tax cut?

That's going to affect the American public much more than a 0.9% increase on earned income over $250,000 for joint filers.
 
2013-01-02 07:20:33 PM  

WhoopAssWayne: Yet the 47% - The Liberal Freeloaders, will keep Freeloading On!


Thanks for the checks.
 
2013-01-02 07:22:07 PM  

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Well how else are going to pay to unionize the death panels?


Actually, I'd be cool with a death panel that ran itself like a union - sending representatives to the government to support me not dying sounds like a good use of my money.
 
2013-01-02 07:22:52 PM  
Already had to use Snopes to disprove an image making the rounds implying that all purchases you make would have a the new Medical Excise tax added.
 
2013-01-02 07:26:07 PM  
Yes, taxes are going up. Back up. To a level that existed back when this country was prosperous.
No doubt frogs and blood will rain from the heavens, the sea will boil, and everything will be ruined forever.
Keep on chuckin' that ficken.
 
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