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(WESH Orlando)   Florida lawmakers claim they didn't communicate with lobbyists before important vote, fail to realize that text messages count as communication   (wesh.com) divider line 30
    More: Florida, lobbyists, communications, lawmakers  
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10798 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jan 2013 at 2:57 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-01-02 03:15:11 PM
4 votes:
img.photobucket.com
2013-01-02 04:56:40 PM
2 votes:

andyofne: Really? My "mom" and "pop" would strongly disagree with you... as would just about every other mom and pop venture.


Of course they would. Don't make it so. In the US 15 full time employees making at least (and I do mean at the very least) $225 thousand a year. In order to make that payroll, plus all the payroll taxes, a company would have to be grossing $400K plus, unless payroll was literally their only expense. At that point, it's not a mom and pop shop, it's a small business with the regulations that come with being a small business.
2013-01-02 04:40:40 PM
2 votes:

mdeesnuts: Flab: My in-laws run a family business out of their kitchen (and a pretty big garage for their trucks) and they have more than 15 employees.

museamused: Lawncare guys, HVAC repairmen, and plumbers don't have 20 employees. Companies have 20 employees. By the definition, in proposed legislation, 20 full time employees are a big company (if I understand correctly).
I work with many small companies that have far less than 20 FT employees and they're still good sized companies. If you want to take issue with bothering small companies, fine, but > 20 FT employees is not a small company.

oops.

I only posted in this thread because I have similar anectdotal evidence that you can have family run business with 15 to 30 employees. And the Moms and Dads that run those "good sized companies" worked harder than most everbody I have ever met. 6-7 days a week, 10-15 hour days.

Were they 'wealthy'? Yep. Did they earn it? Yep. Did their full time warehouse workers that went home at the end of an 8 hour shift deserve government mandated sick leave? Not in my book. Negotiate for it, of course, but I go back to my earlier point: These are the people that drive your local economy. Don't be so quick to shiat on them.


shiatting on small business is equal to requiring them to pay sick employees? That's a big leap. As I said, I've worked intimately with hundreds of small businesses in durable-good distribution (not a huge profit industry) with less that 15 employees and they make tidy profits. I see many of them doing quite well and treat their employees well. I see many others who take advantage of their employees and pay for it in turnover and having people like me come in to clean up the mess. If they all treated employees better probably have a hard time finding work and I'm ok with that.
Look, Right to Work and other efforts have undermined the collective bargaining power for some time. When you undermine the ability for employees to handle these things at a business-to-business level don't be stupid enough to think it's not going to happen at a legislative level - you've given them no other choice.
2013-01-02 04:13:37 PM
2 votes:

you have pee hands: And probably a lot of diners and hamburger joints with more. It depends on the line of work.


This is selling me on the idea, just FYI. I'd rather that food-service workers be allowed to miss work when they have the flu.
2013-01-02 04:12:26 PM
2 votes:
I looked it up from other sources, and (sorry for the bias) the first one that came up with specifics was HuffPo: "Last month, Orange's Board of County Commissioners voted to put off a ballot vote on a hotly contested measure that would require employers to provide workers with one hour of sick leave for every 37 hours worked, capped at 56 per year."

Wow, that 's pretty damn significant, and introduces an expected, additional absentee rate of 2.8% every day. That would have to be offset in wage calculus, at least until the benefits of keeping sick people out of the office/jobsite pay off with shorter illness duration and less spread to the rest of the staff.

The HuffPo also pointed out: "By delaying the vote until after the printing deadline for the Nov. 6 ballot, the board's move at least temporarily scuttled an initiative that 50,000 voters had petitioned to put to a public vote."

Ahh, democracy, bought and sold. Yes, ballot initiatives are direct democracy, and not "constitutional republic" maneuvers.
2013-01-02 03:43:30 PM
2 votes:

mdeesnuts: Seriously people, leave small businesses alone. They employ the nation. You want to regulate Disney, fine. Leave the pizza shop, the lawncare guy, the plumber, the HVAC repairman, and all the other business that keep your local economy going out of it.


It would only affect companies with 15 or more employees. The lawn guy that has a couple of people working for him would not be covered. Once you have 15 paid employees, you are not a mom and pop shop anymore.
2013-01-02 03:21:42 PM
2 votes:
If the government mandates sick pay then companies should simply cut salaries to pay for the mandated cost.
2013-01-03 12:11:09 AM
1 votes:

mdeesnuts: HotWingConspiracy: david_gaithersburg: If the government mandates sick pay then companies should simply cut salaries to pay for the mandated cost.

And start at the top, since that's where the most money is, right?

If it's a business with 20 employees, they'll probably just cut staff and hire more part timers. Because the "people at the top" is the lady who owns the business.

Seriously people, leave small businesses alone. They employ the nation. You want to regulate Disney, fine. Leave the pizza shop, the lawncare guy, the plumber, the HVAC repairman, and all the other business that keep your local economy going out of it.


Yeah, after all, every other first world country has tried and failed at mandatory paid sick leave. OH WAIT, America is basically the only first world country without mandatory paid sick leave.

Somehow small businesses in alllll the other countries cope. In what way are American small business owners uniquely incompetent?
2013-01-02 10:44:17 PM
1 votes:

NightOwl2255: C_Canuk: a convenience store with 5 employees can gross 1 mil no sweat, probably 10 if they have a gas bar.

And they would be exempt from this law.


which has nothing to do with people saying a business grossing 500k is not a small business.

my point was that 20 people and/or 500k in gross revenue is a moronically low bar for "no longer a mom and pop/small business"
2013-01-02 10:19:41 PM
1 votes:

C_Canuk: a convenience store with 5 employees can gross 1 mil no sweat, probably 10 if they have a gas bar.


And they would be exempt from this law.
2013-01-02 06:53:13 PM
1 votes:

Flab: At 10$/hr, it only takes 5 full time employees to have your payroll hit 6 figures. If that's your threshold for no longer calling it a "mom n' pop" operation, then there's a shiat ton of family operated businesses who will be very surprised to learn they're no longer a small business.


So if those 5 are 15 (the limit) were now well over $300k. And as I said, that's simply payroll. We are talking about somewhere over $500k in revenue.
2013-01-02 06:52:36 PM
1 votes:

mdeesnuts: Workers of small businesses should make their own lobbying group and vote out those county commisioners.

/lol


They call it a union.
2013-01-02 06:23:05 PM
1 votes:

Flab: NightOwl2255: Flab: My in-laws run a family business out of their kitchen (and a pretty big garage for their trucks) and they have more than 15 employees.

Good for them. And they are not a mom and pop shop. They're a business. They have a payroll well into 6 figures (unless it's a bunch of part-timers working 15 hours a week.

At 10$/hr, it only takes 5 full time employees to have your payroll hit 6 figures. If that's your threshold for no longer calling it a "mom n' pop" operation, then there's a shiat ton of family operated businesses who will be very surprised to learn they're no longer a small business.


Apparently "well into six figures" now means "minimum of six figures".
2013-01-02 04:57:13 PM
1 votes:

fredsnake: all of our elected tyrants are absolute disgraces they only represent the UN & it's communist agenda!


WTF am i reading???!?!?! Elected tyrants? It's agenda?
2013-01-02 04:25:49 PM
1 votes:

you have pee hands: HotWingConspiracy: There are some rather wealthy companies with fewer employees than that.

And probably a lot of diners and hamburger joints with more.  It depends on the line of work.


IMO restaurants and diners NEED legislated sick leave as a public health measure. Otherwise your cook works thru H1N1 while hocking up phlegm all over meals for hundreds.
2013-01-02 04:22:50 PM
1 votes:

Flab: My in-laws run a family business out of their kitchen (and a pretty big garage for their trucks) and they have more than 15 employees.


Good for them. And they are not a mom and pop shop. They're a business. They have a payroll well into 6 figures (unless it's a bunch of part-timers working 15 hours a week.
2013-01-02 04:22:48 PM
1 votes:

Cyno01: Most cell phone companies store text messages for longer than youd think, and they can be easily subpoenaed, some companies dont even require that.


I think the good Republicans of Orange County, FL are about to find out just how true this is for their carriers.
2013-01-02 04:18:16 PM
1 votes:

mdeesnuts: HotWingConspiracy: david_gaithersburg: If the government mandates sick pay then companies should simply cut salaries to pay for the mandated cost.

And start at the top, since that's where the most money is, right?

If it's a business with 20 employees, they'll probably just cut staff and hire more part timers. Because the "people at the top" is the lady who owns the business.

Seriously people, leave small businesses alone. They employ the nation. You want to regulate Disney, fine. Leave the pizza shop, the lawncare guy, the plumber, the HVAC repairman, and all the other business that keep your local economy going out of it.


Lawncare guys, HVAC repairmen, and plumbers don't have 20 employees. Companies have 20 employees. By the definition, in proposed legislation, 20 full time employees are a big company (if I understand correctly).
I work with many small companies that have far less than 20 FT employees and they're still good sized companies. If you want to take issue with bothering small companies, fine, but > 20 FT employees is not a small company.
2013-01-02 04:18:12 PM
1 votes:
you know they are corrupt
you know they don't care about you
and yet you keep voting
standing with religious ferver
and proudly putting your name on the politician

you don't have the right to complain
you are part of the process
the problem was made by you
2013-01-02 03:46:01 PM
1 votes:

mdeesnuts: HotWingConspiracy: mdeesnuts: You want to regulate Disney, fine

"Text messages from Commissioner Jennifer Thompson, who also texted with a Disney lobbyist that day are not among the records released and may be permanently lost"

Not so fine it seems. And their lobbyist is skilled enough to ensure evidence disappears.

Also FTFA: The measure would have required businesses with more than 15 workers to offer paid sick time to all employees.

I'm not defending cumdumpster Commisioner Thompson, just pointing out if you're aiming for the big fish you don't target all those 16 employee international megacorps.


There are some rather wealthy companies with fewer employees than that.
2013-01-02 03:36:48 PM
1 votes:

mdeesnuts: You want to regulate Disney, fine


"Text messages from Commissioner Jennifer Thompson, who also texted with a Disney lobbyist that day are not among the records released and may be permanently lost"

Not so fine it seems. And their lobbyist is skilled enough to ensure evidence disappears.
2013-01-02 03:36:26 PM
1 votes:
Just make lobbying illegal.
2013-01-02 03:33:04 PM
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: david_gaithersburg: If the government mandates sick pay then companies should simply cut salaries to pay for the mandated cost.

And start at the top, since that's where the most money is, right?


If it's a business with 20 employees, they'll probably just cut staff and hire more part timers. Because the "people at the top" is the lady who owns the business.

Seriously people, leave small businesses alone. They employ the nation. You want to regulate Disney, fine. Leave the pizza shop, the lawncare guy, the plumber, the HVAC repairman, and all the other business that keep your local economy going out of it.
2013-01-02 03:29:27 PM
1 votes:

david_gaithersburg: HotWingConspiracy: david_gaithersburg: If the government mandates sick pay then companies should simply cut salaries to pay for the mandated cost.

And start at the top, since that's where the most money is, right?

.
I'm not like you, I believe in treating everyone equally.


Ah ok. Execs get sick time pay, so everyone should, right?
2013-01-02 03:28:39 PM
1 votes:

david_gaithersburg: HotWingConspiracy: david_gaithersburg: If the government mandates sick pay then companies should simply cut salaries to pay for the mandated cost.

And start at the top, since that's where the most money is, right?

.
I'm not like you, I believe in treating everyone equally.


So, you're cool with a proportional approach then? Equal treatment and all that.
2013-01-02 03:27:31 PM
1 votes:

HotWingConspiracy: david_gaithersburg: If the government mandates sick pay then companies should simply cut salaries to pay for the mandated cost.

And start at the top, since that's where the most money is, right?


Absolutely. The cuts should be proportional, after all - if the guy at the bottom has to pay 10%, well, the guy at the top should pay 10%, too. It's only fair.
2013-01-02 03:23:24 PM
1 votes:

david_gaithersburg: If the government mandates sick pay then companies should simply cut salaries to pay for the mandated cost.


And start at the top, since that's where the most money is, right?
2013-01-02 03:19:23 PM
1 votes:
I don't know which I find more sickening, the outright corruption or the fact that people with actual responsibilities conduct business via text messages.
2013-01-02 03:10:27 PM
1 votes:
Term limits for every politician at two years. Every single one. Every elected official, everywhere. After that, you either campaign for a higher spot, or are permanently barred from politics.

/hard to type that with a straight face
2013-01-02 02:42:25 PM
1 votes:
So much for the Sunshine State's "Sunshine Law".
 
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