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(CNN)   Fiscal Cliff downgraded to Fiscal Slope   (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 112
    More: News, Rep. Paul Ryan, Majority Leader Eric Cantor, a.m. ET, White House announced, House Budget Committee, Vice President Joe Biden, ET Tuesday, federal deficits  
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4518 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jan 2013 at 11:54 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2013-01-02 01:12:52 AM
5 votes:

Smelly McUgly: not adding an agreement to raise the debt ceiling within it is short-sighted as hell.



There was no farking way the Dems are getting the debt ceiling raised without offering cuts. The GOP is going to use budget cuts to approve a debt ceiling raise no matter what happens -- whether that's now or later. Obama, Biden and the Dems did the ADULT thing and got most of what they wanted re: killing the Bush Tax Cuts without giving up a damn thing. Some say that Obama has now given up all of his leverage, but I disagree. Now the tax cut debate is finished for at least the next year or two. Obama has effectively separated tax cuts from budget cuts in the debate. Now the GOP is going to have to find something else to offer in exchange for cuts, and I doubt holding the debt ceiling hostage again is going to be enough.

We took what we could when we could, and now we get to watch a VERY unpopular House GOP hold the debt ceiling hostage again, which was inevitable.
2013-01-02 12:07:13 AM
5 votes:
2013-01-01 11:44:57 PM
5 votes:
TFA "Washington missed this magic moment to do something big to reduce the deficit, reform our tax code, and fix our entitlement programs," the said. "We have all known for over a year that this fiscal cliff was coming. In fact Washington politicians set it up to force themselves to seriously deal with our Nation's long term fiscal problems. Yet even after taking the country to the brink of economic disaster, Washington still could not forge a common sense bipartisan consensus on a plan that stabilizes the debt."

This is what no one will remember, and half have already probably forgotten. May the next 1-10 terms for these assholes be less derpy and rife with corruption than the last.
2013-01-02 12:18:29 AM
4 votes:
The package (PDF) puts off budget cuts for two months and preserves Bush-era income tax cuts for individuals earning less than $400,000 or couples earning less than $450,000.

So, we've preserved tax cuts for the wealthy, the really wealthy, and the extremely wealthy. The ridiculously wealthy will see a tiny increase they won't notice. Not mentioned, but I believe in the bill, is that capital gains remain at a lower rate than normal income and plenty other bullshiat.

The GOP will claim this is the worst thing ever and that Democrats forced them into this horrible socialist nightmare. The Democrats will claim that this is a victory that moves us toward fiscal responsibility by making those who have more pay their fair share.

Neither is true, of course. This is yet abortion of a bill in a long line of such travesties, the result of a conservative right so completely over the edge and a pathetic left so ridiculously spineless that virtually nothing of consequence ever gets done, and when the planets align to allow a bill to finally pass, it's some middle of the road bullshiat that accomplishes nothing.

Welcome to politics in the new millennium.
2013-01-02 12:04:34 AM
4 votes:

EighthDay: Eighty-five Republicans and 172 Democrats backed the bill

I'm too lazy to see which of those 85 are still around next cycle... I wonder how safe they are now.


They'll get primaried by a ultra-derper who will lose to a Democratic potted plant.
2013-01-01 11:55:49 PM
4 votes:
Now for Debt Ceiling Part II: The Ceiling-ening.
2013-01-02 01:34:19 AM
3 votes:

Yoyo: How strong is strong enough for you? The point at which the economy is strongest is the point right before it goes into recession, and then you'll claim that we can't cut spending during a recession. The problem with Keynes is that he doesn't take human nature into account. Sure, deficit spending during economic blight will lessen the effects, but the problem is that no one ever wants to pay it back during times of excess, e.g. the USA since 1948.

Post WWII was perhaps the greatest economic boom the US has ever seen, yet the federal government willfully decided to stop paying off the war debt, and that was when it would have been easy. If not now then when? If not we then whom? Certainly not congress. They've raised the ironically named "debt ceiling" every time they've been asked, although on the last occasion it was with much kicking and screaming like spoiled children Is 60 years not a long enough experiment to demonstrate that the US government is unable, either not smart enough or not powerful enough, to control the national (and by proxy the global) economy?


First off, it's like obscenity:  I know it when I see it :)

As for WWII, we actually went into a recession immediately after the war because of the drop in war spending coupled with the transition from war to domestic production coupled to Truman's massive demobilization efforts.  Truman was very fiscally conservative and did his best to work off the debt, so I'm not sure what your point is.  Clinton was paying down the debt during the greatest peacetime economic expansion in American history, so that's a pretty good baseline for me.  if the economy's growing steadily, then gradually reduce spending.  That's exactly what Obama has been doing in fact.  Government has shrunk, the deficit is decreasing at 3% which is the fastest since WWII, so again, I'm not really sure what your point is.
2013-01-02 12:09:17 AM
3 votes:

Huck And Molly Ziegler: I'm not wild about the idea of the president flying all the way back to Hawaii to gain a few extra days of missed vacation.
Seems like a lot of Air Force One money to spend just to make a point.


Shut you word hold farkface.

That is unless you can come up with the buckets of posts from the day of yore when you were criticizing Bush for all the flights he took to Texas.
2013-01-02 01:25:31 AM
2 votes:

DamnYankees: Has any minority leader ever been made Speaker while Minority leader for the foreseeable future? This seems basically impossible.


The usual reasons for change seem to be a change in party majority, or the departure of the sitting Speaker due to death, retirement, scandal, or leaving the House for the Senate.

However, it looks like Morris Udall at least made an attempt to unseat John William McCormack without even being Minority leader, so there's at least precedent for the attempt; possibly also McKinley's challenge to Thomas Reed. There's also the revolt against Joseph Gurney Cannon, which left him a powerless figurehead. The closest comparison might be the Speakership of William Pennington, who was a compromise candidate during the Civil War; which precedent would suggest that the speaker might be a Democrat to the furthest right of that party.

Note, I'm not claiming Cantor will win. I just think he's nuts enough to try.
2013-01-02 12:46:17 AM
2 votes:

Mentat: eraser8: 12349876: A speaker has to get the majority of the ENTIRE HOUSE to get elected, not just a majority of the party members.

Yeah.  But, traditionally, every Republican votes for the Republican candidate and every Democrat votes for the Democratic candidate.

The Dems should split their votes between Boehner and Cantor to try and force a deadlock.  For the lulz.


They wouldnt need to. The Speaker must receive a majority of the votes. If the Republicans split their vote and the Democrats all vote Pelosi noone would receive a majority. They would have to vote again.

The winner (between Boehner and Cantor) would certainly have to neogiate a deal with the Democrats. They would deal for Boehner and that would give the Democrats major bargaining power.

So the GOP's choice is a weak uncontested Speaker Boehner or and even weaker contested Speaker Boehner.

The tea-tards may just be dumb enough to go for it.
2013-01-02 12:36:37 AM
2 votes:

eraser8: 12349876: A speaker has to get the majority of the ENTIRE HOUSE to get elected, not just a majority of the party members.

Yeah.  But, traditionally, every Republican votes for the Republican candidate and every Democrat votes for the Democratic candidate.


The Dems should split their votes between Boehner and Cantor to try and force a deadlock.  For the lulz.
2013-01-02 12:33:54 AM
2 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: The tax on capital gains and dividends will be permanently set at 20 percent for those with income above the $450,000/$400,000 threshold


Not permanently set, had the expiration date removed.
There's nothing stopping Congress from changing the tax rates again at some point in the future. If things go well, and we get rid of the debt, wages are up and costs are down, go ahead.
But for 35 years "Low taxes create jobs and prosperity and blah blah blah" has been tried and clearly is a failure.
2013-01-02 12:22:26 AM
2 votes:

Emposter: Not mentioned, but I believe in the bill, is that capital gains remain at a lower rate than normal income and plenty other bullshiat.


A lower than Clinton era, but higher than yesterday level -- for some.

The tax on capital gains and dividends will be permanently set at 20 percent for those with income above the $450,000/$400,000 threshold. Link
2013-01-02 12:20:19 AM
2 votes:

Brontes: Can one assume that budget cuts will come during the debt ceiling discussion?


Honestly, budget cuts should wait until the economy is growing again.

Cutting the budget right now is a BAD idea.
2013-01-02 12:18:35 AM
2 votes:
I don't think the cuts should have been permanent, why couldn't they just be extended for another 10 years?

When the economy picks up again we all need to pitch in a little more to lower the debt. It's going to be a lot harder to raise taxes when the time comes then it would be to let a temporary reduction lapse.
2013-01-02 12:14:32 AM
2 votes:

ActionJoe: Hey, it's great they got a deal together. But Obama and the Democrats still farking bargained with the Republicans. Why? Fark'em. They won't do anything to help this country...put it all out there for everyone to see and also suffer the consequences from.


Because it has to pass the house which is controlled by republicans. It's pretty obvious why.
2013-01-02 12:14:16 AM
2 votes:
I like how Republicans basically assume that because the tax cuts are being kept down that means that Democrats agree that taxes should always be at that exact ratio or lower now and forever more and that BUSH WAS RIGHT.

Anyone who has argued for extensions from the center-left or left argue it as a practical concern that the economy is screwed up because of demand; and while we might want to have the tax rates 4 or 5 pts higher overall the bulk of the population, doing it at this particular point in time would be dumb.
2013-01-02 12:10:32 AM
2 votes:

Corvus: If you want some good Schadenfreude go over to FreeRepubluc. It's a complete meltdown.


i got distracted by the 'if you want to ban guns, then i want to kill gays' post.

that isn't schadenfreude, it's whistling past the crazyhouse.
2013-01-02 12:07:49 AM
2 votes:

Corvus: If you want some good Schadenfreude go over to FreeRepubluc. It's a complete meltdown.


Red State is pretty good too. Headline is THE MCCONNELL TAX HIKE.
2013-01-02 12:07:03 AM
2 votes:

Flatulent_Flea: EighthDay: Eighty-five Republicans and 172 Democrats backed the bill

I'm too lazy to see which of those 85 are still around next cycle... I wonder how safe they are now.

They'll get primaried by a ultra-derper who will lose to a Democratic potted plant.


so i guess we should be asking which of the 85 have a district within derping distance of christine o'donnell.
2013-01-02 12:06:50 AM
2 votes:
Maybe the Republicans can derp us all into single-payer healthcare, amnesty for undocumented workers, and federally protected gay marriage during their next attempt at negotiation.
2013-01-02 12:06:43 AM
2 votes:
FTA: "Paul Ryan, the House Budget Committee chairman who voted yes on the fiscal cliff deal, told reporters he cast his vote because, "If you want a bill to pass, you should vote for it.""

They're learning. Be afraid, be very afraid.
2013-01-02 12:05:18 AM
2 votes:
If you want some good Schadenfreude go over to FreeRepubluc. It's a complete meltdown.
2013-01-02 12:04:14 AM
2 votes:

Markoff_Cheney: thank god we delayed that disaster.


self imposed disasters are great that way - you can really schedule your apocalypses for convenience.
2013-01-02 12:02:11 AM
2 votes:

Hueg_Redd: I want to see Boehner keep his speakership not because I like him but because I hate Cantor with a passion.


eric cantor is an eminently hate-able individual.

all the more reason to put him right out front and center, really. i'm pulling for him, at least.

the blubbering bohner press conference would just be gravy.
2013-01-01 11:57:42 PM
2 votes:
I'm of the mind that until we stop electing insane nihilists to our government, we will be farked. So... um, anyone have any good recipes for pigeon?
2013-01-01 11:57:19 PM
2 votes:
Two more months of rope and adding almost $4 trillion to the debt isn't much of a victory, is it Republitards?
2013-01-01 11:33:35 PM
2 votes:
I think I prefer "fiscal toboggan run"

/because anyone who has ever ridden one of those suckers knows that no matter how gentle the slope, you're never really in control
2013-01-02 11:53:23 AM
1 votes:
It kind of makes me wonder what President Obama may have accomplished with his presidency if he didnt have to stop and wipe Republican A$$ every couple of months...
2013-01-02 10:57:37 AM
1 votes:

SlothB77: do people realize that raising taxes on the rich will lower tax revenue? the millionaires will disappear. what we will end up with is new spending, lower revenue and no cuts


Yes lets listen to the guy who is wrong about everything.

Your philosophy has been proven wrong time and time again, yet you still make predictions.

STFU.

President Romney laughs at you.
2013-01-02 10:22:26 AM
1 votes:

Yoyo: Alphax: Like I said, what 'bad behavior' is unemployment benefits rewarding?

Getting paid to do nothing? It's not that much. This theory that it's enough to keep people from looking for work is bullshiat.

I'm getting 20% more than full time minimum wage in my state. It's certainly enough for me to pay my bills,


Shocking as this seems - not everyone is you.
2013-01-02 10:15:31 AM
1 votes:
Meanwhile, at the NYSE:
DJIA: 13357.65; +253.51; (1.93%)

I'm sure that will come to a screeching halt when people making over 400k/year realize their income taxes are going up.
2013-01-02 09:41:01 AM
1 votes:

Pick: Yet the Obama's themselves are helping to raise the debt, by their lavish vacations. Vacations, that require an army of secret service agents and support equipment, a fleet of airplanes that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars per hour to operate. They don't care. They don't care at all, they are getting their's while they can. And you and I are paying for it.


Geez, I wonder why
2013-01-02 08:46:57 AM
1 votes:

SlothB77: RexTalionis: SlothB77: Fart_Machine: SlothB77: do people realize that raising taxes on the rich will lower tax revenue? the millionaires will disappear. what we will end up with is new spending, lower revenue and no cuts

This is what idiots actually believe.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100191962/britains-mi ll ionaire-exodus-is-a-wake-up-call-to-barack-obamas-high-tax-america/

I thought you liberals were supposed to be smart.

Unlike the UK (and most other countries), you're still on the hook for US income taxes even if you leave the country. You'd have to renounce your US citizenship and the protection that it gives you before you're no longer on the hook.

There are many different ways to disappear.  The rich don't get rich by paying a lot of taxes.  They get and stay rich by finding ways to avoid them.


So let's stop them from avoiding their taxes. Our tax gap is over $500 billion a year; better and stronger income reporting requrements and a properly funded IRS could recoup at least half of that. Then we can take some of Tom Coburn's suggestions and close many of the loopholes the rich use to evade taxes like the treatment of carried interest (among others of course). That would generate much more revenue than the bill we just passed without having to raise marginal income tax rates.
2013-01-02 08:22:52 AM
1 votes:

Fart_Machine: SlothB77: Fart_Machine: SlothB77: do people realize that raising taxes on the rich will lower tax revenue? the millionaires will disappear. what we will end up with is new spending, lower revenue and no cuts

This is what idiots actually believe.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100191962/britains-mi ll ionaire-exodus-is-a-wake-up-call-to-barack-obamas-high-tax-america/

I thought you liberals were supposed to be smart.

Which Galt's Gulch are they going to flee to for a small percentage increase in taxes? Your blog post makes you look even dumber.


Bolivia, obviously...

I like how a lot of these 'conservatives' are basically arguing for a return to feudalism; although in my darker moments I honestly think feudalism is the natural state of our brain-wiring and we have to actively resist it to get a functioning, representative government (which is why the oligarchs love a lazy populace).
2013-01-02 08:20:53 AM
1 votes:

SlothB77: RexTalionis: SlothB77: do people realize that raising taxes on the rich will lower tax revenue?

Not as a percentage of inflation. The Bush tax cuts have pushed tax revenue to near historic lows when pegged to GDP.

How will tax revenue go up when you raise taxes on the rich and they disappear?  Don't tell me you didn't read or remember the article, RexTalionis, you posted six (6) comments in the Fark Thread about it.  (Several in direct response to me in that November 28th Fark thread.)

http://www.fark.com/comments/7456543/UK-I-know-well-tax-rich-50-They ll -just-lie-back-think-of-England-The-rich-My-oh-my-but-isnt-tax-exile-l ovely-this-time-of-year&new=1#new


Again, even if you leave the US, you are still on the hook for income taxes. You would literally have to become a stateless citizen by renouncing your citizenship and all the protection and benefit that it entails before you are free of US income taxes. This is unlike the UK and most other countries, where leaving the country without renouncing one's citizenship frees you from income taxes.
2013-01-02 08:16:33 AM
1 votes:

SlothB77: Fart_Machine: SlothB77: do people realize that raising taxes on the rich will lower tax revenue? the millionaires will disappear. what we will end up with is new spending, lower revenue and no cuts

This is what idiots actually believe.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100191962/britains-mi ll ionaire-exodus-is-a-wake-up-call-to-barack-obamas-high-tax-america/

I thought you liberals were supposed to be smart.


Unlike the UK (and most other countries), you're still on the hook for US income taxes even if you leave the country. You'd have to renounce your US citizenship and the protection that it gives you before you're no longer on the hook.
2013-01-02 08:02:15 AM
1 votes:

SlothB77: do people realize that raising taxes on the rich will lower tax revenue? the millionaires will disappear. what we will end up with is new spending, lower revenue and no cuts


This is what idiots actually believe.
2013-01-02 07:56:11 AM
1 votes:
Good... Now let's talk about gutting the bloated defense budgets.
2013-01-02 07:53:48 AM
1 votes:

cretinbob: dumbobruni: Debeo Summa Credo: cretinbob: Two more months of rope and adding almost $4 trillion to the debt isn't much of a victory, is it Republitards?

Which "republitards" are claiming victory?

David Camp

"After more than a decade of criticizing these tax cuts," said Representative Dave Camp of Michigan, "Democrats are finally joining Republicans in making them permanent. Republicans and the American people are getting something really important, permanent tax relief."

Link

Yeah, there will be plenty on both sides who try to say they won.

I never liked the idea of the Bush tax cuts, because I knew it would bring us here. They were meant to expire for a reason and need to do so.
That aside, pushing it off another two months won't let them come up with a better solution.

"Paul Ryan voted for it-he is dead to me now. All the "ayes" are to be PURGED in the primaries! "


They talk like the primaries are going to be held next week. A lot can happen in the next few months, let alone the next two years.

I just looked up my congressman, a particularly loathsome Southern Republican.

He voted "NO".

I approve.

But not for the reason he would expect.
2013-01-02 07:46:20 AM
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: cretinbob: Two more months of rope and adding almost $4 trillion to the debt isn't much of a victory, is it Republitards?

Which "republitards" are claiming victory?


The same ones who'll point out that Obama refusing to deal before January 1st meant that he oversaw the largest tax hike in the history of forever, and that their votes were instrumental in fixing that problem.
2013-01-02 07:41:01 AM
1 votes:

Yoyo: Alphax: Phoenix_M: I can't believe they extended unemployment another 99 weeks. That's awesome news for the ne'er-do-wells.

That would be a GOOD thing. No need to make them move their families to under the nearest bridges. It's also stimulative, as they pay rent and buy food.

As an unemployed (i.e. only working part time and still eligible for UI payments) veteran, I wholly oppose extension of UI benefits. It's like buying $100k of life insurance, and then after collecting the policy asking for $200k instead. Just like the Wall Street and Detroit bailouts, we as a nation are rewarding bad behavior. Plus, if I didn't have the UI payments coming in every week (and I needed money to live) I could find a job really quickly. Furthermore, it's not stimulative, its redistributive or inflationary.

However, since they were extended, I'm going keep riding this gravy train as long as it stays on the rails.

/anyone looking to hire an engineer?
//why no news about the "dairy cliff" yet?




Word to the wise, you give a good case up there for less than involved work ethic, and you have your picture on your profile along with your profession. If I was hiring engineers, and reading this thread, I wouldn't offer a lead.

It's unlikely a future employer may stumble across it, but as this is Fark, everyone is only a step or two away from a Farker anyway.
2013-01-02 07:18:57 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah: Alphax: That would be a GOOD thing. No need to make them move their families to under the nearest bridges. It's also stimulative, as they pay rent and buy food

No it isn't. In order to give an unemployment check to someone, you have to take the equivalent money out of the economy somewhere else. It is only personally stimulative to the guy getting the check. In the aggregate, it is a wash.


False. People with a lot of money aren't using it all.
2013-01-02 06:35:26 AM
1 votes:

o5iiawah:
No it isn't. In order to give an unemployment check to someone, you have to take the equivalent money out of the economy somewhere else. It is only personally stimulative to the guy getting the check. In the aggregate, it is a wash.


You are a damned fool without even a basic grasp of maths let alone economics. According to your theory there is no difference between all the money in a country sitting in a box and all of it being circulated .Be gone from this place.
2013-01-02 04:32:08 AM
1 votes:

Nullav: TFA "Washington missed this magic moment to do something big to reduce the deficit, reform our tax code, and fix our entitlement programs," the said. "We have all known for over a year that this fiscal cliff was coming. In fact Washington politicians set it up to force themselves to seriously deal with our Nation's long term fiscal problems. Yet even after taking the country to the brink of economic disaster, Washington still could not forge a common sense bipartisan consensus on a plan that stabilizes the debt."

This is what no one will remember, and half have already probably forgotten. May the next 1-10 terms for these assholes be less derpy and rife with corruption than the last.


Eh, they'll see the butthurt from the TP and the legitimate concerns from the left and say "both sides are mad, so this must be the best deal!"

...And then we'll wonder why the deficit keeps going up.
2013-01-02 04:24:06 AM
1 votes:
Checks in at RedState...

Hey. If any of you are looking for any last-minute new year gift ideas for me, I have one. I'd like Erik Ericson, lying douche, right here tonight. I want him brought from his happy holiday slumber over there on Teabagger Lane with all the other stupid people and I want him brought right here...with a big ribbon on his head! And I want to look him straight in the eye, and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-assed, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed sack of monkey shiat he is!

/Hallelujah, holy shiat, where's the tylenol
//RedState used to be worth reading
2013-01-02 02:59:34 AM
1 votes:
Okay, so Obama's an idiot. Actually that's not entirely accurate: he's governing like we still have a rational, functional government, and we don't.

This kind of compromise and the concessions he made should never have been made for a two-month extension. What will happen now is that the Republicans will claim that they've proven they're willing to compromise with the extension, and then in March will refuse to back down from cuts to Social Security and Medicare. The polls will wander back towards the GOP side because if the American people were God-farking stupid enough to elect them in the first place, they'll swallow bullshiat of that caliber.

And Obama will cave. Again.

And sometime in June, in between breathless reports on the Kardashian pregnancy and stories on how your 79 year-old grandfather better start thinking about being all bootstrappy and looking for a part-time job, you'll also hear a very brief soundbite about how consumer spending is down for the 1500th consecutive month. Gosh, we've been betrayed by Wall Street, who got away scot free after 2008, and abandoned and ignored by our government. I wonder why nobody wants to spend any money?
2013-01-02 02:48:39 AM
1 votes:
H

Yoyo:

Mechanical engineer by education and construction engineer by experience. As far as aerospace, Boeing is a mess and I don't speak French. I've applied with Virgin, but they want more experience in their industry than their industry is old, which leads me to believe that they're not actually hiring but advertising for employees merely as part of the smoke and mirrors to keep people plunking down hard cash for reservations on space flights that may never take off. I'll take your questions as a "no" then.

Maybe they're only calling the "dairy cliff" in corn country. I've been visiting my Mom in Kansas for Christmas and she likes to watch the local TV news.


Hear you on the experience side of things, unfortunately for the industry there aren't enough people with experience because a lot of the smart people 30-40 went into IT instead of aviation. I got my foot in the door with a low paying job with a lot of responsibility with a small maufacturer, jumped over to the regulator (CAANZ in this part of the world), now over to Air New Zealand's design arm - Altitude. The little bit of experience was worth it, the pay pack has doubled to NZ$100k in 5 years. And it's about to get more insane. Sucks for them, awesome for me.

Airbus also has offices in the UK, and Toulouse is actually worth learning French for.

/Hamburg is a hole though.
2013-01-02 02:45:26 AM
1 votes:

Yoyo: /I know. I know. Don't feed the trolls.


Fine, I won't feed you anymore.
2013-01-02 02:45:21 AM
1 votes:
Why is it always that those who criticize unemployment insurance the most are those who use it the most? It's the same with the ancient, addled tea-baggers railing-on about wanting cuts to Social Security and Medicare while depending on those services for their own survival.

I suspect it has to do with massive self-loathing on some level.
2013-01-02 02:43:31 AM
1 votes:

Adolf Oliver Nipples: It deserves to be hidden in the Politics tab with the rest of the petty backbiting that everybody else is sick of?


We love you too, Adolf!
2013-01-02 02:31:32 AM
1 votes:

Dave The Slushy: Yoyo: /anyone looking to hire an engineer?
//why no news about the "dairy cliff" yet?

What kind of engineer? Degree/diploma qualified professional or tradesman? Aerospace is about to go nuts with the boomer generation retiring, so if you're ex-Airforce of Army/Naval Aviation a half decent job should be no problem.

/"dairy cliff"?


Mechanical engineer by education and construction engineer by experience. As far as aerospace, Boeing is a mess and I don't speak French. I've applied with Virgin, but they want more experience in their industry than their industry is old, which leads me to believe that they're not actually hiring but advertising for employees merely as part of the smoke and mirrors to keep people plunking down hard cash for reservations on space flights that may never take off. I'll take your questions as a "no" then.

Maybe they're only calling the "dairy cliff" in corn country. I've been visiting my Mom in Kansas for Christmas and she likes to watch the local TV news.
2013-01-02 02:22:25 AM
1 votes:

Yoyo: Alphax: Yoyo: As an unemployed (i.e. only working part time and still eligible for UI payments) veteran, I wholly oppose extension of UI benefits. It's like buying $100k of life insurance, and then after collecting the policy asking for $200k instead. Just like the Wall Street and Detroit bailouts, we as a nation are rewarding bad behavior. Plus, if I didn't have the UI payments coming in every week (and I needed money to live) I could find a job really quickly. Furthermore, it's not stimulative, its redistributive or inflationary.

What 'bad behavior' is it rewarding?

Socializing risk while leaving reward private. Why should banks be concerned about the creditworthiness of their loans when the government will just bail them out? Why should auto companies worry about the profitability of their production lines when the government will just bail them out? Why should individuals worry about finding a job or learning new skills when they can keep getting paid for up to almost 2 years, i.e. 4 times longer than normal in the past? CSB: Last time I was on unemployment, I spent a lot of weeks looking for a technical job in my specialty without success, and towards the end I found job in a less technical and lower paying area. That motivated me to go to college, which led to me finding a job in my technical area. And like I said earlier, if I needed money, I could find a job quite quickly or simply do without the income, but why should I bother? It's the prisoner's dilemma.


Like I said, what 'bad behavior' is unemployment benefits rewarding?

Getting paid to do nothing? It's not that much. This theory that it's enough to keep people from looking for work is bullshiat.
2013-01-02 02:18:12 AM
1 votes:

CorporatePerson: Serious Black: Yeah, I don't see them actually proposing cuts to Medicare or Social Security with the debt ceiling either. They know those programs are ridiculously popular, and they know that cutting those programs would hand senior citizens back to the Democrats and result in an almost unstoppable electoral coalition.

The Republicans have to spin this as a win and in doing so acknowledge the Democrats just cut taxes for 98% of Americans, effectively surrounding their tax cut card. They already lost the "We have to stick to stop 0bama" card which was hands down the most effective in the deck for keeping the party together.

They've got nothing to offer anyone outside of an elite doner base so they're just gonna fight amongst themselves and try to get the Democrats to propose their own ideas which they're too cowardly to even stand behind.

I'm really enjoying watching these cowards flail.


Oh, me too. And it's pretty awesome that Obama just got over 100 Republicans in Congress to approve of the biggest revenue increase in the last 40 years:

dailydish.typepad.com

Grover must be shiatting bricks.
2013-01-02 02:10:34 AM
1 votes:

Yoyo: /anyone looking to hire an engineer?
//why no news about the "dairy cliff" yet?


What kind of engineer? Degree/diploma qualified professional or tradesman? Aerospace is about to go nuts with the boomer generation retiring, so if you're ex-Airforce of Army/Naval Aviation a half decent job should be no problem.

/"dairy cliff"?
2013-01-02 02:05:21 AM
1 votes:

Serious Black: Yeah, I don't see them actually proposing cuts to Medicare or Social Security with the debt ceiling either. They know those programs are ridiculously popular, and they know that cutting those programs would hand senior citizens back to the Democrats and result in an almost unstoppable electoral coalition.


The Republicans have to spin this as a win and in doing so acknowledge the Democrats just cut taxes for 98% of Americans, effectively surrounding their tax cut card. They already lost the "We have to stick to stop 0bama" card which was hands down the most effective in the deck for keeping the party together.

They've got nothing to offer anyone outside of an elite doner base so they're just gonna fight amongst themselves and try to get the Democrats to propose their own ideas which they're too cowardly to even stand behind.

I'm really enjoying watching these cowards flail.
2013-01-02 01:46:37 AM
1 votes:

Phoenix_M: I can't believe they extended unemployment another 99 weeks. That's awesome news for the ne'er-do-wells.


That would be a GOOD thing. No need to make them move their families to under the nearest bridges. It's also stimulative, as they pay rent and buy food.
2013-01-02 01:40:58 AM
1 votes:
Well goddamnit. I was hoping they would fark-all rather than reach any kind of agreement and truly show themselves to be the useless slabs of meat they are. As it is, they've managed to dredge up some semblance of care as to what happens to us little folk, I suppose only because there are some tattered shreds of that whole "public service" curtain still in place that they want to hide behind. But no worries. I'm sure the next round will take care of any "inequities" to our continued indebtedness to masters we've never contracted with. Our children are in good hands, they can certainly assure you.
2013-01-02 01:33:10 AM
1 votes:

Kome: Oh god, freeperville is a glorious nest of b*tch-fits and delicious, delicious conservative tears.

I need to get to bed, but reading their comments that are so full of prepubescent angst and rage just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.


This may be the final straw that breaks the back of the GOP. Either that, or we get a literal Night of the Long Knives.
2013-01-02 01:27:23 AM
1 votes:

eraser8: BlueDWarrior: I'm of the mind that until we stop electing insane nihilists to our government, we will be farked. So... um, anyone have any good recipes for pigeon?

Honestly, I don't understand why pigeons wouldn't be delicious.

I mean, you wouldn't want to eat them raw off the streets of New York City...but, come on: purge them for awhile and roast them while frequently basting them?  They should be pretty boss.


I've had them before at a restaurant, two days after walking around shanghai asking myself, "Why are there no pigeons in this city?"
2013-01-02 01:26:01 AM
1 votes:

Mentat: Yoyo: The economy is farking growing!!!! Argh!!!!! With attitudes like yours we'll never get the budget cut, never mind the debt.

Growing, but not strongly.  Keynesian theory says cuts should come when the economy is strong and deficits should be run when the economy is weak.  If we had followed that mantra after the 90's, we wouldn't even have a national debt now.


How strong is strong enough for you? The point at which the economy is strongest is the point right before it goes into recession, and then you'll claim that we can't cut spending during a recession. The problem with Keynes is that he doesn't take human nature into account. Sure, deficit spending during economic blight will lessen the effects, but the problem is that no one ever wants to pay it back during times of excess, e.g. the USA since 1948.

Post WWII was perhaps the greatest economic boom the US has ever seen, yet the federal government willfully decided to stop paying off the war debt, and that was when it would have been easy. If not now then when? If not we then whom? Certainly not congress. They've raised the ironically named "debt ceiling" every time they've been asked, although on the last occasion it was with much kicking and screaming like spoiled children Is 60 years not a long enough experiment to demonstrate that the US government is unable, either not smart enough or not powerful enough, to control the national (and by proxy the global) economy?
2013-01-02 01:18:57 AM
1 votes:

Fuggin Bizzy: Freeperland is eating itself:

To: JRandomFreeper"You've been one of the GOP supporters for a while. Making excuses for them."

'You own this. And yes, you are on the paper list of liberal republicans that I keep near the computer, so I can keep track of all you (redacteds)."
__________________________________________________
Like many here, I chose to deal with reality and voted for Romney. Unlike you, I saw him as a far better choice than the Marxist we had in office.
As far as owning this; this falls on the shoulders of knuckle heads like you who chose not to vote in the presidential election, or voted 3rd party. It's because of folks like you, that we're where we are now!
You are a selfrightous, unpatriotic phony! We're facing this dilema because you didn't see Obama as the real threat!

Hahahahahaha!!


b.vimeocdn.com

/nothing changes...
2013-01-02 01:16:58 AM
1 votes:

Yoyo: eraser8: Brontes: Can one assume that budget cuts will come during the debt ceiling discussion?

Honestly, budget cuts should wait until the economy is growing again.

Cutting the budget right now is a BAD idea.

The economy is farking growing!!!! Argh!!!!! With attitudes like yours we'll never get the budget cut, never mind the debt.


And the 'fiscal cliff' cuts would have sent the nation, and therefore the world, into recession again.
2013-01-02 01:14:43 AM
1 votes:

Yoyo: The economy is farking growing!!!! Argh!!!!! With attitudes like yours we'll never get the budget cut, never mind the debt.


Growing, but not strongly.  Keynesian theory says cuts should come when the economy is strong and deficits should be run when the economy is weak.  If we had followed that mantra after the 90's, we wouldn't even have a national debt now.
2013-01-02 01:11:13 AM
1 votes:

Yoyo: The economy is farking growing!!!! Argh!!!!!


Oh noes! It is?  This must  be stopped as soon as possible!  Wait.  No.  Huh?
2013-01-02 01:05:20 AM
1 votes:
2013-01-02 01:03:28 AM
1 votes:

Mentat: Smelly McUgly: This deal sucked, and not adding an agreement to raise the debt ceiling within it is short-sighted as hell. The Republicans want to shred the social safety net. What's stopping them beyond the threat of the defense cuts that take effect with the sequester?

President Obama is really, really bad at negotiating. Oh well, at least he's not Mitt farking Romney.

If you were the President, how would you have forced the GOP to accept an increase in the debt ceiling?  Going over the cliff wouldn't have affected that since we pretty much hit the ceiling yesterday.


Well, I think this deal kicking sequester down the road was a bad one. We should have dealt with the whole fiscal cliff wholesale. Put the defense cuts on the table and tell the Republicans that we'll reduce the cuts for no more obstruction on the debt ceiling and maybe a couple other things (hands off SS and Medicare, for two).

Of course, I am at a disadvantage here because I am not at all privy to what was going on in the nitty-gritty of the negotiations.
2013-01-02 12:55:35 AM
1 votes:
"They're crazy, but they're not that batshiat crazy," Democratic Representative Alcee Hastings told reporters as the Republican plan came into focus.

Don't be so sure Congressman.
2013-01-02 12:55:30 AM
1 votes:

cretinbob: [quoting Freepers] "...B. Hussein Obama

..."

This is hilarious, calling up as it does the memory of Saddam Hussein, now deceased and daily-more-irrelevant historical figure. Keep farking that chicken, Freepers.
2013-01-02 12:55:22 AM
1 votes:

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Corvus: If you want some good Schadenfreude go over to FreeRepubluc. It's a complete meltdown.

If I had to navigate that mess of a site on a regular basis I would have a meltdown too..

So... GOPe / GOP-e... What's all that about?


GOP Establishment.  Freepers think that the problem with the GOP is that the power brokers push people like Mitt Romney and and don't take people like Allen West and Michelle Bachmann seriously as political players.  Their core philosophy is that true conservatism can never fail, it can only be failed by elites in DC who actually might be more of a libertarian or even be civil to a DemonKKKrap.
2013-01-02 12:53:08 AM
1 votes:
This deal sucked, and not adding an agreement to raise the debt ceiling within it is short-sighted as hell. The Republicans want to shred the social safety net. What's stopping them beyond the threat of the defense cuts that take effect with the sequester?

President Obama is really, really bad at negotiating. Oh well, at least he's not Mitt farking Romney.
2013-01-02 12:51:29 AM
1 votes:

cretinbob: The Speaker of the House isn't elected by the party who holds the majority, and doesn't even have to be a member of Congress. It's everyone.


I guess we'll find out Thursday. There will be an insurgent challenge from the Right, I expect. If Boehner survives as Speaker. I will be impressed.

/..you know nothing of Boehner! He was born inside a jail. He was raised with scum like you. He is from the gutter too!
2013-01-02 12:46:31 AM
1 votes:

12349876: Just making sure people know that the 151 Republicans that voted against this bill, a strong majority of the party, aren't going to be enough to ditch Boehner.


So he can be Majority Leader then. The Speaker of the House isn't elected by the party who holds the majority, and doesn't even have to be a member of Congress. It's everyone.
So Maybe Grover can be elected Speaker. or Big Bird.
2013-01-02 12:43:12 AM
1 votes:
I don't think it can't be stated enough. But permanent in Washington-speak simply means "We don't have a set sunset date."

Anything Congress does can be undone. So if you want to re-balance the tax rates to make sense, we have to find some way (by hook or crook) to generate enough economic growth to where receipts can start to make sense given our burden, and the bulk of the population can afford the extra few pts we'd need to bend the curve back down.
(Also, I still don't what these things that we could cut that would actually put a significant dent in the deficit without screwing over an not insignificant chunk of the population... which kinda matters to people who have some semblance of empathy)
2013-01-02 12:42:42 AM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Many of those no votes are going to be loyal to Boehner.


I'm less confident of that than you seem to be.

DamnYankees: They vote for Pelosi.


Which in the present scenario leads on the first pass to 200-plus votes for Pelosi, 100-odd votes for Boehner, and 150-odd for Cantor.

At which point, Boehner has to try and pull in the GOP right wing faster than Pelosi can pry lose the GOP's left.

"Speaking of Republicans in the House, I've watched with interest what's happening to the revolt against Gingrich. Two problems--and I know something about revolts [having been elected minority leader when the Young Turks ran him against Charles Halleck in 1965]: Number one, you can't beat an incumbent with four candidates. You have to have one unified opponent to the incumbent. You get four, you spread the effort, there aren't enough votes. Number two, you should never challenge an incumbent party leader in the middle of a session. You should do it after an election or before--at the time the parties organize-- so you're focusing on that issue.

"That's what we did: we all agreed I would be the candidate: [Mel] Laird and [Charles] Goodell and [Don] Rumsfelt and [Al] Quie wouldn't be competing candidates, and they'd all vote for me. And we did it after the 1964 debacle when the Republicans were organizing [the new Congress], so that the only issue was whether you wanted new leadership or not. It wasn't all involved in who's gonna be for tax cuts or who's gonna be for this or that."


President Gerald R. Ford, quoted in Thomas M. DeFrank's Write It When I'm Gone

I wonder if Cantor has read that book....

12349876: A speaker has to get the majority of the ENTIRE HOUSE to get elected, not just a majority of the party members.


Indeed.
2013-01-02 12:42:32 AM
1 votes:

Mentat: For all the complaining about Obama being a terrible negotiator (something I'm occasionally guilty of), the guy sure knows how to get shiat done.


I know right? I would not be surprised to find out this was his plan all along. I mean the GOP is pretty damn predictable these days. It cant be difficult to anticipate what they will do and strategize accordingly.
2013-01-02 12:42:26 AM
1 votes:

eraser8: 12349876: A speaker has to get the majority of the ENTIRE HOUSE to get elected, not just a majority of the party members.

Yeah.  But, traditionally, every Republican votes for the Republican candidate and every Democrat votes for the Democratic candidate.


Just making sure people know that the 151 Republicans that voted against this bill, a strong majority of the party, aren't going to be enough to ditch Boehner.
2013-01-02 12:40:45 AM
1 votes:

Flatulent_Flea: Officialy the Obama Tax Cuts now....


And since they Bush cuts did technically expire, he did cut taxes not raise them, so yes, you sir are be best kind of correct.
2013-01-02 12:37:56 AM
1 votes:
Officialy the Obama Tax Cuts now....
2013-01-02 12:35:32 AM
1 votes:
For all the complaining about Obama being a terrible negotiator (something I'm occasionally guilty of), the guy sure knows how to get shiat done.
2013-01-02 12:32:30 AM
1 votes:
For Grover Norquist, the Senate-backed fiscal cliff bill on its way to the House floor Tuesday is a tax cut that House Republicans can vote for and defend to their constituents without violating their anti-tax increase pledges.

That little puke. The only thing that matters is that the Republicans didn't violate HIS pledge.
Is he autistic or something? "The pledge....the tax pledge. Did anyone violate my tax pledge? My precious..."
2013-01-02 12:31:59 AM
1 votes:

DeltaPunch: Nobody -- not even Cantor -- wants to be in charge of that right now.


That seems a better argument against a revolt, yes.
However, it seems to depend on the assumption that Cantor is not himself TeaParty-grade crazy.
2013-01-02 12:31:28 AM
1 votes:
Son of a b***h! My Congresscritter voted against it. Buschon (IN-8) is worthless, and I wish the Democrats ran someone worth electing in 2012 because flipping this idiot in 2014 is the goal.
2013-01-02 12:31:16 AM
1 votes:
If I was a Democratic congressman, I'd be throwing my support behind Bachmann for Speaker. Troll the shiat out of that election. The only drawback would be risking putting that puddle of derp third in line to the White House.
2013-01-02 12:30:55 AM
1 votes:
Congratulations to Eric Cantor the new Doormat of the House.
2013-01-02 12:29:40 AM
1 votes:

cretinbob: Freeperland is just.....damn......

Are You Going To Remain A Republican in light of today's gutless actions by both the Senate and House? This was the last straw for me; I'm done! I will be switching my party affiliation tomorrow.

----

I'll most likely be dropping party affiliation and registering Independent sometime this month.



----


Yes.

But I'm writing my conservative congressman that if Boehner continues as Speaker I will support a primary or third-party candidate against him (my congressman).

----


I think most of us tried to be team players, even after the a$$ whooping we got on election night. Switching my party affiliation is the only political power I (we) have left. The GOPe chose to fear the Left instead of us. May they reap the consequences!

----


We desperately need a third party. If you support the GOP, you support Obama and people like him. I do not support the Left -- that's why I no longer vote Republican.
You will eventually figure this out.

----

You've been one of the GOP supporters for a while. Making excuses for them.
You own this. And yes, you are on the paper list of liberal republicans that I keep near the computer, so I can keep track of all you (redacteds).


the Freep Independent - it's like a fark independent, but with mayonnaise and shredded lettuce slathered on their nipples. also nice to note that freep has their own skookum, too.
2013-01-02 12:29:11 AM
1 votes:
Every damn time I go to Freepville they are constantly begging for money to run their site. As soon as they meet their goals, they start another " Freepathon."
2013-01-02 12:28:46 AM
1 votes:

Dr. DJ Duckhunt: Can a grown man cry bourbon?


Cry bourbon and slip the dogs of war!
2013-01-02 12:28:30 AM
1 votes:

shower_in_my_socks: Cantor just voted against the bill, along with a majority of the House GOP. So who's in the weaker position right now -- Boehner, who had the support of less than half of the House Republicans, or Cantor, who was backed-up by a majority of his party, including the House Majority Whip?


As someone else said elsewhere, the key question in all this was did the GOP causes actually not want this bill to pass, or did they just not want to vote for it? If its the former, ya his job is toast. If the latter, he's fine. And based on the fact that this bill got the floor in the first place, I bet you its the latter.
2013-01-02 12:28:13 AM
1 votes:

CanuckInCA: I have a PDF of the bill, but not really the time to go over it right now - is there an article that summarizes what it is that they voted on?


Link
2013-01-02 12:26:36 AM
1 votes:

Don't Troll Me Bro!: AdolfOliverPanties: [i2.cdn.turner.com image 640x360]

Is that little biatch about to cry again?

Not until he gets a few down the hatch.


Can a grown man cry bourbon?
2013-01-02 12:25:40 AM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Cantor is done. Tonight was a total failure for him. Why would it fault him to the speakership?


I couldn't disagree more. Boehner will face the wrath of the new Congress--Cantor could have the largest block of support from those who voted no tonight, like he did. And given his district, he's not going to be primaried from the right. Boehner only got the bill passed because of the Democratic caucus.
2013-01-02 12:25:08 AM
1 votes:

DamnYankees: Tonight was a total failure for him.


By my count, three-fifths of the GOP was right along side with Cantor. That's going to make it kind of tricky for Boehner to keep even figurehead leadership. Far from impossible, but I expect a challenge.
2013-01-02 12:24:13 AM
1 votes:

BlueDWarrior: I'm of the mind that until we stop electing insane nihilists to our government, we will be farked. So... um, anyone have any good recipes for pigeon?


Honestly, I don't understand why pigeons wouldn't be delicious.

I mean, you wouldn't want to eat them raw off the streets of New York City...but, come on: purge them for awhile and roast them while frequently basting them?  They should be pretty boss.
2013-01-02 12:22:09 AM
1 votes:
According to Grover Nordquist, over half of the House GOP just voted against tax cuts.
2013-01-02 12:22:07 AM
1 votes:
Wow, the freepers are batshiat crazy and something scary is in their cave.
2013-01-02 12:20:31 AM
1 votes:

Irving Maimway:
And yes, they work up a good froth almost semi-monthly depending on what Roger Ailes decides to put on the air.


these are people that label FoxNews as part of the liberal media.

with 5 minutes effort, you could probably get them convinced that Birchers are just a front for Acorn.
2013-01-02 12:18:56 AM
1 votes:
The Conservatives are already butthurt at Boehner. This blogger says that the Republicans would be better off without Boehner and that he failed in the negotiations.
2013-01-02 12:18:18 AM
1 votes:

Flatulent_Flea: EighthDay: Eighty-five Republicans and 172 Democrats backed the bill

I'm too lazy to see which of those 85 are still around next cycle... I wonder how safe they are now.

They'll get primaried by a ultra-derper who will lose to a Democratic potted plant.


that's certainly my hope. although were i live the ulral-derper might get in. all my political snail mail is "no new taxes" and "praise jesus" from just about all of them.
2013-01-02 12:18:02 AM
1 votes:
Can one assume that budget cuts will come during the debt ceiling discussion?
2013-01-02 12:13:25 AM
1 votes:
What are the odds that Boehner has a clean re-election as Speaker after violating the Hastert Rule?
2013-01-02 12:11:54 AM
1 votes:

Corvus: If you want some good Schadenfreude go over to FreeRepubluc. It's a complete meltdown.


Seems like they've had one of those every couple of months for the last four years. I really don't see how that's sustainable. Is there some sort of Muscle Milk type of concoction that helps you build up the strength and endurance to go into a frothy walleyed aneurystic rage on demand, like a high-performance athlete? If not, I think someone should invent one. They could call it Red Bullshiat.
2013-01-02 12:10:58 AM
1 votes:

Debeo Summa Credo: Which "republitards" are claiming victory?


I wouldn't use that epithet, but Rep. Dave Camp and Rep. Louie "Terror Babies Birther" Gohmert are doing just that, claiming its the largest tax cut in history, blah blah blah.
2013-01-02 12:07:16 AM
1 votes:
So how much got cut from the massively bloated defense budget?
2013-01-02 12:07:05 AM
1 votes:

Lochsteppe: an unsustainable pouting America


Not so. Pouting is a renewable energy source. It can power cities, thinktanks and campaign headquarters.
2013-01-02 12:05:43 AM
1 votes:
Hey, it's great they got a deal together. But Obama and the Democrats still farking bargained with the Republicans. Why? Fark'em. They won't do anything to help this country...put it all out there for everyone to see and also suffer the consequences from.
2013-01-02 12:05:14 AM
1 votes:
And it will only INCREASE your Debt by $4 TRILLION over the next 10 Years.

Good Job!

Remember when the Wall came down, and that was the end of Communism?

Well, the Republican Party has revealed how Democracy may meet its end.

Ignorance, greed and wanton pandering to the withering few will take your country down.

Good Luck.
2013-01-02 12:03:58 AM
1 votes:

CanuckInCA: I have a PDF of the bill, but not really the time to go over it right now - is there an article that summarizes what it is that they voted on?


If I remember correctly, slaves now count as 3/5's of a person.

/something to that extent.
2013-01-02 12:03:55 AM
1 votes:

EighthDay: Eighty-five Republicans and 172 Democrats backed the bill

I'm too lazy to see which of those 85 are still around next cycle... I wonder how safe they are now.


I looked up my state's reps who voted on it. The solitary Republican from Arkansas - Womack - who voted for the bill is in Northwest AR aka Wal-Mart territory. In 2010 he won reelection with >70% of the vote and in 2012 ran unopposed. Seems pretty safe. I guess he could get primaried still...
2013-01-02 12:03:26 AM
1 votes:
And the freepTards are all saying the will change their party affiliation to independent and vote third party now.

Amusing
2013-01-02 12:00:53 AM
1 votes:
Don't worry, I'm sure the Republicans or whatever Southern Strategy players still afoot will still be dreaming of their next attempt to cut the social safety net in our country while driving their vision of an unsustainable polluting America into the ground. Shortly.
2013-01-01 11:58:22 PM
1 votes:
Eighty-five Republicans and 172 Democrats backed the bill

I'm too lazy to see which of those 85 are still around next cycle... I wonder how safe they are now.
 
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