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(Toronto Star)   Target comes to Canada, busts union, is more than happy to rehire workers at new lower rate of pay. Otherwise known as 'buy a business, tear up worker agreements and act like the original company never existed'   (thestar.com) divider line 84
    More: Obvious, Target, United Food, labor contracts, customer attrition, workers  
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3245 clicks; posted to Business » on 01 Jan 2013 at 4:18 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-01 03:27:29 PM
[crybaby.jpg]
 
2013-01-01 04:23:26 PM
remember kids. WalMart is the only evil retailer.

Target sells things designed by Michael Graves, it can't be evil.
 
2013-01-01 04:28:32 PM
Subby: Yeah, so?

Grow up.
 
2013-01-01 04:32:15 PM
"the Zellers store in the Brentwood mall will be closed and the Target will reopen in another area of the mall, after a period of six months to three years."
and...
"no transfer of fixtures, equipment, goodwill, trademark or logo, inventory, customer lists or business systems had occurred."

So, basically, subby's take on it is complete hogwash.
 
2013-01-01 04:36:44 PM
Funny that can work both ways. I remember years ago some company went "bankrupt" and changed names and tried to get out of their bills.. sort of worked.. until the realestate ground holder or what ever they are called got wind of it and had them evicted almost overnight because he had a lease contract with the now none existent company and not the "new" one. Awful funny seeing all their equipment like computers and printers on the curb side.
 
2013-01-01 04:39:20 PM

wygit: "the Zellers store in the Brentwood mall will be closed and the Target will reopen in another area of the mall, after a period of six months to three years."
and...
"no transfer of fixtures, equipment, goodwill, trademark or logo, inventory, customer lists or business systems had occurred."

So, basically, subby's take on it is complete hogwash.


^THIS

I'm pro-union, but Target is well within it's rights here. Sorry Zellers people.
 
2013-01-01 05:06:28 PM

Historyteller: I'm pro-union, but Target is well within it's rights here. Sorry Zellers people.


Sad, but true. Now, here's the fun part - will Canadians act like Americans and just roll over, grateful to lose a living wage and employment protections in return for slighty cheaper crap, or will they boycott Target knowing full well that "legal" isn't always the same as "ethical" and pay a bit more elsewhere to support Canadian employment?
 
2013-01-01 05:15:51 PM
Employees making less than a living wage are nothing more than state-subsidized labor, as taxpayers are forced to make up the difference. Funny how people call that the free market.
 
2013-01-01 05:22:12 PM
The free market. Free for the share holders to screw over its employees in any manner that will guide them the best profit.
 
2013-01-01 05:23:19 PM
Well, they keep their health care, right?
 
2013-01-01 05:28:20 PM
"The fact that the employees at Target will perform the same functions as Zellers employees and sell similar merchandise was not enough to convince Mahil to extend the rights of the workers under a section of the labour code that commits successor employers to honour existing collective agreements when they take over a business."

The bold part is the part of the article that most people have a problem with.
/Why do you canucks put the letter 'u' in words that doun't need them?
 
2013-01-01 05:31:05 PM
Do not call me a "team member." Do not call me an "associate." I am an employee. I am labor. We have a day named after us, and most of the time I'm proud of what we do.
 
2013-01-01 05:32:45 PM
I love how everyone is in here biatching about Target not paying a 'fair wage' or a 'living wage'.

I worked at target, and supported myself on what I made without government aid, thus it was by definition a living wage.

It wasn't great, but it was a fair wage for the work I did, and when I decided I wanted more money I went out and found another job doing work that involved more thought and was thus paid more.

Seriously, retail workers aren't entitled to 40k per year and benefits, nor should they be.

Want more money? get better skills. It's as simple as that.
 
2013-01-01 05:34:05 PM

Milo Minderbinder: Employees making less than a living wage are nothing more than state-subsidized labor, as taxpayers are forced to make up the difference. Funny how people call that the free market.


Yes, this! A cashier deserves a living wage, Minimum wage should be $15. That will ensure everybody gets their piece of the pie.
 
2013-01-01 05:39:22 PM
Pretty raw deal if you ask me.
 
2013-01-01 05:50:19 PM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Do not call me a "team member." Do not call me an "associate." I am an employee. I am labor. We have a day named after us, and most of the time I'm proud of what we do.


Can't be stated enough. To many folks, "labor" became a dirty word in the 1980's, and continues to be so because only the "have nots" should have to do it, and they should do it for the "haves."

That's why skilled trades are begging for people - most folks don't understand what it takes to be an electrician, or a plumber, or a machinist, or a welder, especially in terms of education and training, because they can't get past that whole "labor" thing. I grew up in a family of factory workers and tradesmen, and I've done everything from farm work to software development to washing alcoholic puke out of bathrooms at 3 AM.

My main motivation was pay - if washing puke paid more than writing C# code, I'd be washing puke right now. Labor isn't shameful, it isn't somehow a reflection on the quality of the person doing it, and it's what made this country great right up until about half a century ago. Hell, I almost wish we'd get a global EMP or a massive solar flare, just so the tech-addled would discover, once again, that you don't get civilization without labor.
 
2013-01-01 05:50:33 PM

OregonVet: Milo Minderbinder: Employees making less than a living wage are nothing more than state-subsidized labor, as taxpayers are forced to make up the difference. Funny how people call that the free market.

Yes, this! A cashier deserves a living wage, Minimum wage should be $15. That will ensure everybody gets their piece of the pie.


Do you have a moral problem with a corporation saying that this job is important enough that they need someone doing it 40 hours a week, but not important enough to allow that individual to support themselves so they can continue to do the job?

Forget moral concerns; let us be pragmatic. How can an economy on that model survive? Wal-mart is the world's largest private employer. What percentage of their employees are at or near a minimum wage?
 
2013-01-01 05:58:37 PM
As a current Target employee, this isn't surprising at all.

I have never worked for a company that see's employees as only a cost like they do. It's gone completely off the wall.

They stopped their devoted and trained employees from finishing up putting the merchandise on the floor because it costs too much. They would rather lose the sales than hire people to put it out there to sell. It is unbelievable.

Their current obsession? Selling as much clothes as possible because the markup is so much higher. They have stopped cleaning up all of their merchandise that is outside of clothes because of that. The toy department is so trashed that you can go into any Target and argue with them to get any price you want on some of them.

The weird thing is that people still complain about Walmart and say how much better Target is even though they will be waiting forever for that one cashier at 12:00.
 
2013-01-01 06:24:31 PM

dumbobruni: remember kids. WalMart is the only evil retailer.

Target sells things designed by Michael Graves, it can't be evil.


this
 
2013-01-01 06:27:34 PM

Milo Minderbinder: Employees making less than a living wage are nothing more than state-subsidized labor, as taxpayers are forced to make up the difference. Funny how people call that the free market.


funny how people like you complain when programs for the poor actually help the poor
 
2013-01-01 06:29:28 PM

Jaws_Victim: The free market. Free for the share holders to screw over its employees in any manner that will guide them the best profit.


Um, the employees can quit the job if they are being screwed over or they can start their own business....ahhhh, the free market, how does it work?
 
2013-01-01 06:33:39 PM

giftedmadness: Milo Minderbinder: Employees making less than a living wage are nothing more than state-subsidized labor, as taxpayers are forced to make up the difference. Funny how people call that the free market.

funny how people like you complain when programs for the poor actually help the poor


You misunderstamd me; I'm not complaining about the programs. I'm complaining about a "free market" that makes the programs necessary.
 
2013-01-01 06:38:36 PM

veive: I worked at target, and supported myself on what I made without government aid, thus it was by definition a living wage.


I worked at Target too, and I didn't need government cheese. But I had no kids, a girlfriend that let me live rent-free, and no medical problems.

The problem is, what is decent money for a 20 year old is crappy for a 40 year old.
 
2013-01-01 06:39:49 PM

Historyteller: I'm pro-union, but Target is well within it's rights here. Sorry Zellers people.


You're absolutely right. I assume the Target employees will also be well within their rights to unionize once the stores open.
 
2013-01-01 06:45:14 PM

FormlessOne: Now, here's the fun part - will Canadians act like Americans and just roll over, grateful to lose a living wage and employment protections in return for slighty cheaper crap, or will they boycott Target knowing full well that "legal" isn't always the same as "ethical" and pay a bit more elsewhere to support Canadian employment?


Zellers employed deadbeats and trash. I'm not going to shed a tear over them.
 
2013-01-01 06:47:04 PM

moefuggenbrew: Why do you canucks put the letter 'u' in words that doun't need them?


Why does your mom put dicks in holes of hers that don't need them?
 
2013-01-01 06:51:49 PM

sure haven't: moefuggenbrew: Why do you canucks put the letter 'u' in words that doun't need them?

Why does your mom put dicks in holes of hers that don't need them?


Wow.
 
2013-01-01 07:03:36 PM
But Target supports gay cultural issues, so there's THAT!
 
2013-01-01 07:09:49 PM

Milo Minderbinder: sure haven't: moefuggenbrew: Why do you canucks put the letter 'u' in words that doun't need them?

Why does your mom put dicks in holes of hers that don't need them?

Wow.


Escalated pretty quickly didn't it?
 
2013-01-01 07:11:44 PM

Obama's Left Nut: Milo Minderbinder: sure haven't: moefuggenbrew: Why do you canucks put the letter 'u' in words that doun't need them?

Why does your mom put dicks in holes of hers that don't need them?

Wow.

Escalated pretty quickly didn't it?


Yes, and I am still trying to figure out why.
 
2013-01-01 07:12:18 PM
capitalism means consumers have to honor contracts, not businesses.
 
2013-01-01 07:21:11 PM
It's nice to see another part of the US way of life exported to Canada. This is standard operating business procedure in the US. Get used to it, Canada.
 
2013-01-01 07:24:59 PM

Milo Minderbinder: Obama's Left Nut: Milo Minderbinder: sure haven't: moefuggenbrew: Why do you canucks put the letter 'u' in words that doun't need them?

Why does your mom put dicks in holes of hers that don't need them?

Wow.

Escalated pretty quickly didn't it?

Yes, and I am still trying to figure out why.


*shrug* one retarded question deserves another.
 
2013-01-01 07:38:56 PM

Krieghund:
The problem is, what is decent money for a 20 year old is crappy for a 40 year old.


I think that the bigger problem here is 40 year olds STILL working entry level jobs (that the 20 year olds should be doing) AND expecting those jobs to pay enough to maintain a family of four on. If, at 40, your highest aspiration is to run the jewelry counter at Target then it is you, not Target, that had farked over your life.

/that, and people aren't wearing enough hats
 
2013-01-01 07:57:31 PM

FormlessOne: Historyteller: I'm pro-union, but Target is well within it's rights here. Sorry Zellers people.

Sad, but true. Now, here's the fun part - will Canadians act like Americans and just roll over, grateful to lose a living wage and employment protections in return for slighty cheaper crap, or will they boycott Target knowing full well that "legal" isn't always the same as "ethical" and pay a bit more elsewhere to support Canadian employment?


I wouldn't get your hopes up. A lot of people I've talked to have an inexplicably favorable view of Target. When I've asked why, I've been told that it is "so much better than Wal-Mart." WTF? I've been to Target stores in Michigan. They are exactly like Wal-Mart. Maybe slightly cleaner.
 
2013-01-01 08:00:09 PM

DigitalCoffee: Krieghund:
The problem is, what is decent money for a 20 year old is crappy for a 40 year old.

I think that the bigger problem here is 40 year olds STILL working entry level jobs (that the 20 year olds should be doing) AND expecting those jobs to pay enough to maintain a family of four on. If, at 40, your highest aspiration is to run the jewelry counter at Target then it is you, not Target, that had farked over your life.

/that, and people aren't wearing enough hats


50 years ago you could raise a family on a retail salary.

Walmart has shown that people will eschew good service if the price is low enough.
 
2013-01-01 08:28:09 PM

giftedmadness: Jaws_Victim: The free market. Free for the share holders to screw over its employees in any manner that will guide them the best profit.

Um, the employees can quit the job if they are being screwed over or they can start their own business....ahhhh, the free market, how does it work?


How delightfully realistic of you. And when the 1 in 1000 of them actually makes the business that is successful their great grandchildren can enjoy the fruits of that labor. The rest can go to jail for failing to pay 'taxes' after their unsuccessful business goes under.

Not everyone can be the head of the business. Corporations can, however, pay their employees a liveable wage and treat their employees like valued members of their workforce, instead of as a pair of hands that is meant to keep the customer from yelling at the manager.
 
2013-01-01 08:44:33 PM

veive: I love how everyone is in here biatching about Target not paying a 'fair wage' or a 'living wage'.

I worked at target, and supported myself on what I made without government aid, thus it was by definition a living wage.

It wasn't great, but it was a fair wage for the work I did, and when I decided I wanted more money I went out and found another job doing work that involved more thought and was thus paid more.

Seriously, retail workers aren't entitled to 40k per year and benefits, nor should they be.

Want more money? get better skills. It's as simple as that.


7/10. The last bit was a bit over the top, so I deducted points from you there.
 
2013-01-01 08:45:11 PM

HempHead: DigitalCoffee: Krieghund:
The problem is, what is decent money for a 20 year old is crappy for a 40 year old.

I think that the bigger problem here is 40 year olds STILL working entry level jobs (that the 20 year olds should be doing) AND expecting those jobs to pay enough to maintain a family of four on. If, at 40, your highest aspiration is to run the jewelry counter at Target then it is you, not Target, that had farked over your life.

/that, and people aren't wearing enough hats

50 years ago you could raise a family on a retail salary.

Walmart has shown that people will eschew good service if the price is low enough.


Fifty years ago computers weren't used to free up resources.
 
2013-01-01 09:11:05 PM

HempHead: DigitalCoffee: Krieghund:
The problem is, what is decent money for a 20 year old is crappy for a 40 year old.

I think that the bigger problem here is 40 year olds STILL working entry level jobs (that the 20 year olds should be doing) AND expecting those jobs to pay enough to maintain a family of four on. If, at 40, your highest aspiration is to run the jewelry counter at Target then it is you, not Target, that had farked over your life.

/that, and people aren't wearing enough hats

50 years ago you could raise a family on a retail salary.

Walmart has shown that people will eschew good service if the price is low enough.


50 years ago you could be the sole breadwinner, work in a warehouse, and support a family of four.
50 years ago you could pull into a service station, get a full tank of gas, have your oil and tires checked, windshield cleaned AND get change back from a $5 bill.

Unfortunately, now is TODAY and not 50 years ago.

/50 years ago kids still thought that hiding under your desk at school would protect you from a nuke blast
 
2013-01-01 09:11:18 PM

BgJonson79: HempHead: DigitalCoffee: Krieghund:
The problem is, what is decent money for a 20 year old is crappy for a 40 year old.

I think that the bigger problem here is 40 year olds STILL working entry level jobs (that the 20 year olds should be doing) AND expecting those jobs to pay enough to maintain a family of four on. If, at 40, your highest aspiration is to run the jewelry counter at Target then it is you, not Target, that had farked over your life.

/that, and people aren't wearing enough hats

50 years ago you could raise a family on a retail salary.

Walmart has shown that people will eschew good service if the price is low enough.

Fifty years ago computers weren't used to free up resources.


Computers were quite mainstream by 1963.
 
2013-01-01 09:27:57 PM

HempHead: Computers were quite mainstream by 1963.


Just curious - in what context were they mainstream? I'm sure some sectors of the business world used them, but I wouldn't think it would have been at the near-customer retail level, e.g., self-checkout lanes, or for real-time inventory monitoring.
 
2013-01-01 09:33:35 PM

DigitalCoffee: HempHead: DigitalCoffee: Krieghund:
The problem is, what is decent money for a 20 year old is crappy for a 40 year old.

I think that the bigger problem here is 40 year olds STILL working entry level jobs (that the 20 year olds should be doing) AND expecting those jobs to pay enough to maintain a family of four on. If, at 40, your highest aspiration is to run the jewelry counter at Target then it is you, not Target, that had farked over your life.

/that, and people aren't wearing enough hats

50 years ago you could raise a family on a retail salary.

Walmart has shown that people will eschew good service if the price is low enough.

50 years ago you could be the sole breadwinner, work in a warehouse, and support a family of four.
50 years ago you could pull into a service station, get a full tank of gas, have your oil and tires checked, windshield cleaned AND get change back from a $5 bill.

Unfortunately, now is TODAY and not 50 years ago.

/50 years ago kids still thought that hiding under your desk at school would protect you from a nuke blast


It does.

I think the under the desk thing was for the debris. If the radition didn't kill you, they didn't want one of those 1.5 by 11.5 wooden beams to kill you when it fell.
 
2013-01-01 09:43:38 PM

Spadababababababa Spadina Bus: FormlessOne: Historyteller: I'm pro-union, but Target is well within it's rights here. Sorry Zellers people.

Sad, but true. Now, here's the fun part - will Canadians act like Americans and just roll over, grateful to lose a living wage and employment protections in return for slighty cheaper crap, or will they boycott Target knowing full well that "legal" isn't always the same as "ethical" and pay a bit more elsewhere to support Canadian employment?

I wouldn't get your hopes up. A lot of people I've talked to have an inexplicably favorable view of Target. When I've asked why, I've been told that it is "so much better than Wal-Mart." WTF? I've been to Target stores in Michigan. They are exactly like Wal-Mart. Maybe slightly cleaner.


Liberal shop at target.
 
2013-01-01 10:06:34 PM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: HempHead: Computers were quite mainstream by 1963.

Just curious - in what context were they mainstream? I'm sure some sectors of the business world used them, but I wouldn't think it would have been at the near-customer retail level, e.g., self-checkout lanes, or for real-time inventory monitoring.


The huge payroll and accounting departments were being replaced by IBM mainframes.
 
2013-01-01 10:40:41 PM

HempHead: Huck And Molly Ziegler: HempHead: Computers were quite mainstream by 1963.

Just curious - in what context were they mainstream? I'm sure some sectors of the business world used them, but I wouldn't think it would have been at the near-customer retail level, e.g., self-checkout lanes, or for real-time inventory monitoring.

The huge payroll and accounting departments were being replaced by IBM mainframes.


OK, that makes sense. So even then, people who were doing that work had to go find something else if the company didn't have a new assignment for them.
 
2013-01-01 11:30:33 PM

moefuggenbrew: "The fact that the employees at Target will perform the same functions as Zellers employees and sell similar merchandise was not enough to convince Mahil to extend the rights of the workers under a section of the labour code that commits successor employers to honour existing collective agreements when they take over a business."

The bold part is the part of the article that most people have a problem with.
/Why do you canucks Americans put remove the letter 'u' in from words that doun't need normally have them?


FTFY, neighbour!!!!
 
2013-01-02 01:51:24 AM

veive: I love how everyone is in here biatching about Target not paying a 'fair wage' or a 'living wage'.

I worked at target, and supported myself on what I made without government aid, thus it was by definition a living wage.

It wasn't great, but it was a fair wage for the work I did, and when I decided I wanted more money I went out and found another job doing work that involved more thought and was thus paid more.

Seriously, retail workers aren't entitled to 40k per year and benefits, nor should they be.

Want more money? get better skills. It's as simple as that.


When the going got tough, you quit rather than improve the store you worked at? What a cowardly way to go about life.
 
2013-01-02 02:01:23 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: But Target supports gay cultural issues, so there's THAT!


So, Bears?
 
2013-01-02 02:12:14 AM

FormlessOne: Historyteller: I'm pro-union, but Target is well within it's rights here. Sorry Zellers people.

Sad, but true. Now, here's the fun part - will Canadians act like Americans and just roll over, grateful to lose a living wage and employment protections in return for slighty cheaper crap, or will they boycott Target knowing full well that "legal" isn't always the same as "ethical" and pay a bit more elsewhere to support Canadian employment?


Since they watch tv shows produced by Americans,eat food made popular by Americans, listen to music made by Americans, as well as watch movies made by Americans...I'm going to guess they act like Americans on this one
 
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