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(CNN)   Will Republicans remember to come into work today? Will Nancy Pelosi bite anyone? Will John Boehner replace his gavel with a whiskey bottle? It's your "House of Representatives fiscal cliff vote" thread (House starts their session at noon today)   (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 592
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2150 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jan 2013 at 12:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-01 03:43:54 PM

Waxing_Chewbacca: ah.... But who gets blamed for the cuts?


That seems to be the most important thing to way too many people here.
 
2013-01-01 03:44:57 PM

Kuroshin: So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg


Me too, but the trend is tenuous. Look at this bill for a perfect example. It actually contains spending increases. And if you look at Bush's years, Obama is far above his average (yes, it is not all of his fault, however, it is all our problem). See the overall spending pattern in the Chart 9 where it dips some before continuing to climb at an exponential pace? That is what I am worried about.
 
2013-01-01 03:45:09 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: IMDWalrus: ...and this time is the same how? Because the Obama that I've seen publicly calling out the Republicans on their bullshiat this time isn't the one I remember from the debt ceiling or health care bills.

The end result looks like it's shaping up to be the same. I'm not interested in an Obama who manages to squeak out a whisper of protest here and there before caving and giving the GOP whatever they want.


Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.
 
2013-01-01 03:46:21 PM

Corvus: Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.


Because if FreeRepublic says it, it must be true, right? You really need to come up with something better than that.
 
2013-01-01 03:46:23 PM

HeadLever: Kuroshin: So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg

Me too, but the trend is tenuous. Look at this bill for a perfect example. It actually contains spending increases. And if you look at Bush's years, Obama is far above his average (yes, it is not all of his fault, however, it is all our problem). See the overall spending pattern in the Chart 9 where it dips some before continuing to climb at an exponential pace? That is what I am worried about.


That may have something to do with the only proven way across decades of fiscal policy to cause job growth is government spending.
 
2013-01-01 03:47:10 PM

Corvus: LouDobbsAwaaaay: IMDWalrus: ...and this time is the same how? Because the Obama that I've seen publicly calling out the Republicans on their bullshiat this time isn't the one I remember from the debt ceiling or health care bills.

The end result looks like it's shaping up to be the same. I'm not interested in an Obama who manages to squeak out a whisper of protest here and there before caving and giving the GOP whatever they want.

Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.


Is that where you go for valuable political assessments?
 
2013-01-01 03:47:18 PM

DamnYankees: Ross Douthat  @DouthatNYT
Seems like superdupermajority for Sen. bill could be emboldening House Rs. "If so many Dems voted 'yes' at 450K, why not try them at 750K?"


This is now a facepalm thread. Everybody post facepalms now.
 
2013-01-01 03:47:19 PM

Corvus: Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.


LOL according to those guys, the Fiscal Cliff is now an imaginary creation of the liberal media.
 
2013-01-01 03:47:54 PM

HeadLever: LazarusLong42: The debt and deficit are not our current problem.

I'll disagree. When the interest on the debt eats up about 20% of the entire federal tax revenue (and remember how low interest rates are currently), it is a huge problem. only those that have no clue are the ones that pretend that this is not a problem. Just imagine what will happen to this cost when interest rates normalize. While i'll agree that it is not the biggest problem in the short term, it is THE most serious long term problems that we currently face as a country and that small changes right now have huge implications for future generations. Kicking that can down the road isn't going to work for much longer.

The economy has found a footing. It is not a great one, but we need to start looking to the long term sooner rather than later. Propping up short term bubbles while sacrificing long term fiscal security is not something that most want us to see.


And austerity measures are certain to put a stop to the slow recovery we're enjoying now.
 
2013-01-01 03:48:05 PM
I take Cantor's rejection of the bill in front of his Republican colleagues as a declaration for his candidacy as Speaker of the House. Why else try to make Boehner look bad for promoting the bill? I imagine Cantor is thinking "If these guys are crazy enough to reject this deal, they may be just crazy enough to make me speaker, too!"
 
2013-01-01 03:48:50 PM

HeadLever: Kuroshin: So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg

Me too, but the trend is tenuous. Look at this bill for a perfect example. It actually contains spending increases. And if you look at Bush's years, Obama is far above his average (yes, it is not all of his fault, however, it is all our problem). See the overall spending pattern in the Chart 9 where it dips some before continuing to climb at an exponential pace? That is what I am worried about.


Right but as we have pointed out to you time and time again but you keep ignoring it because it doesn't fit your dogma, putting in a austerity program now will only make matters worse.

The recession is a BIG reason why those numbers shot up. I know telling you this hundreds of times won't make you get it because it goes against your dogma but it's true.

You keep putting your fingers in your ears about that.
 
2013-01-01 03:48:57 PM
images.wikia.com
 
2013-01-01 03:49:01 PM

jocutus: I take Cantor's rejection of the bill in front of his Republican colleagues as a declaration for his candidacy as Speaker of the House.


I for one would like to re-welcome Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
 
2013-01-01 03:49:03 PM

Corvus: You said their should be NO GROWTH.


Nope. I don't mind growth in nominal dollars as this is needed for inflation and population growth. The issue that we all have is with programs that exceed the growth of GDP which are Medicare, SS and Interest on the Debt.
 
2013-01-01 03:49:27 PM

HeadLever: Kuroshin: So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg

Me too, but the trend is tenuous. Look at this bill for a perfect example. It actually contains spending increases. And if you look at Bush's years, Obama is far above his average (yes, it is not all of his fault, however, it is all our problem). See the overall spending pattern in the Chart 9 where it dips some before continuing to climb at an exponential pace? That is what I am worried about.


Does that graph include the costs of wars during the Bush years. Remember they were off the budget and Obama put the, back in.
 
2013-01-01 03:49:34 PM
Eventually Cantor is going to get his wish and become the House Republican alpha dog.

I couldn't think of a better figure head to ensure national disgust and a sizable withdrawal of support from the GOP by casual voters.

The dude really is an ethically bankrupt, creep.

It would be worth it just for the Bill Hader sketches on SNL. Think "Stefon" in a suit and black wig.
 
2013-01-01 03:49:43 PM

Gosling: DamnYankees: Ross Douthat  @DouthatNYT
Seems like superdupermajority for Sen. bill could be emboldening House Rs. "If so many Dems voted 'yes' at 450K, why not try them at 750K?"

This is now a facepalm thread. Everybody post facepalms now.


I'm giddy. All this time, I've been thinking how terrible it'll be for the Democrats to make a deal now, this late. I mean, it's already past the deadline and they're still trying to negotiate with those retards and the retards are still demanding more.

fark em. fark em raw. Go over the goddamned cliff, Mr. President, and we'll fix the mess when we hit the ground.
 
2013-01-01 03:50:08 PM

HeadLever: Corvus: You said their should be NO GROWTH.

Nope. I don't mind growth in nominal dollars as this is needed for inflation and population growth. The issue that we all have is with programs that exceed the growth of GDP which are Medicare, SS and Interest on the Debt.


May have something to do with a recession that is slow to recover due to huge government spending cuts and businesses that no longer create jobs despite record profits.
 
2013-01-01 03:51:09 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.

Because if FreeRepublic says it, it must be true, right? You really need to come up with something better than that.


Where did I say that? Oh yeah I didn't say that.

Normally you seem like a smart guy on here so not sure why you are wigging out on this so much. When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?
 
2013-01-01 03:51:14 PM
Oh, House Republicans. Thanks for trying to commit harakiri AND give us those defense spending cuts we all needed. Now for you to put yourselves out on a limb voting against a tax cut tomorrow! Just finish sticking the knife in today.
 
2013-01-01 03:52:19 PM
When does the new Congress convene?
 
2013-01-01 03:52:28 PM

GAT_00: That may have something to do with the only proven way across decades of fiscal policy to cause job growth is government spending.


Yep, only government can bail us out.
 
2013-01-01 03:52:45 PM

Corvus: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.

Because if FreeRepublic says it, it must be true, right? You really need to come up with something better than that.

Where did I say that? Oh yeah I didn't say that.

Normally you seem like a smart guy on here so not sure why you are wigging out on this so much. When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?


Well, to be fair, their idea of "winning" is amending the 13th and 14th Amendments, killing poors in the streets, and returning to pre-Sherman Antitrust Act America, so their perception of "winning" and "not winning" is something out of whack.
 
2013-01-01 03:52:50 PM
Taegan Goddard  @politicalwire
Democratic Senate leaders say they will not take up bill amended by House Republicans: "We're done."http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/01/01/liberals_frustrated _with_obama_budget_deal.html...
 
2013-01-01 03:53:30 PM

OneBrightMonkey: It would be worth it just for the Bill Hader sketches on SNL. Think "Stefon" in a suit and black wig.


As a side note, I was shocked at how bad Hader's Boehner impression was on a recent sketch (Where Obama felt bad at how Republicans were treating Boehner). And this impression is so simple: all you have to do is say everything as if you're Sylvester the cat from Looney Tunes.
 
2013-01-01 03:53:49 PM

GAT_00: May have something to do with a recession that is slow to recover due to huge government spending cuts and businesses that no longer create jobs despite record profits.


Two serious questions:
1. What cuts do you attribute to the slow growth?
2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?
 
2013-01-01 03:54:36 PM

Corvus: Where did I say that? Oh yeah I didn't say that.

Normally you seem like a smart guy on here so not sure why you are wigging out on this so much. When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?


1) If you aren't advocating the Freeper position as the truth, then why the fark did you bring it up? You seem to really enjoy non-sequitors.

2) The GOP is the party of perpetual victim-hood. They claim Obama uses mind-control to force gay illegal immigrants to take away their guns. I put zero stock into the veracity of their whining. The only thing stopping Obama from giving away everything is now the House GOP demanding even more. I measure Obama's successes by real standards, not whether GOP whining is at 11 or 11.
 
2013-01-01 03:55:53 PM

Evil High Priest: And austerity measures are certain to put a stop to the slow ecovery we're enjoying now.


And a continuing exploding debt will make certain to put a stop to any prosperous future. Again, it is part of the issues we face. We need to find a way to both reign in spending and keep the economy moving (albeit slowly). These concepts are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
 
2013-01-01 03:55:58 PM

GoldSpider: 1. What cuts do you attribute to the slow growth?


Consistant reductions in government employment has been a big hit:

thinkprogress.org

GoldSpider: 2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?


Increase demand.
 
2013-01-01 03:56:05 PM

HeadLever: Yep, only government can bail us out.


When you spend 30 years systematically destroying the private sector's mechanism (unions) for keeping income inequality in check, there's no one left but the government to step in and attempt to do so.

The middle class is not overtaxed, it is underpaid.
 
2013-01-01 03:56:57 PM

GAT_00: May have something to do with a recession that is slow to recover due to huge government spending cuts and businesses that no longer create jobs despite record profits.


One is sustainable and one is not. I'll let you figure out which is which.
 
2013-01-01 03:57:03 PM

HeadLever: Corvus: You said their should be NO GROWTH.

Nope. I don't mind growth in nominal dollars as this is needed for inflation and population growth. The issue that we all have is with programs that exceed the growth of GDP which are Medicare, SS and Interest on the Debt.


Yes Medicare & SS is a seperate budget which currently have positive money (that are all IOUs because it was borrowed from the main budget). Something will need to be done in a DECADE OR TWO or wither raise the taxes on these or change the benefits.

Clinton wanted to use the Clinton surplus on shoring up these accounts. Bush however made tax cuts spent that money (1.6 trillion (and counting)) and then plunged our economy down the shiatter (600 billion) and started two expensive wars (over 1 trillion and counting).

Obama is bring most of these highly expensive Bush spending down but it will take time.
 
2013-01-01 03:57:41 PM

GoldSpider: How do we encourage businesses to hire?


Taxcuts for the "job creators". Wealthy people like to invest willy-nilly in creating jobs for which there are no demand.
 
2013-01-01 03:57:55 PM
Steve LaTourette (R-OH) went on CNN and said it was ridiculous to vote on a bill passed by "sleep-deprived octogenarians".

Please note, that vote would have been the last one LaTourette ever cast as a member of Congress, as he is retiring on Thursday.
 
2013-01-01 03:58:46 PM

Gosling: Steve LaTourette (R-OH) went on CNN and said it was ridiculous to vote on a bill passed by "sleep-deprived octogenarians".

Please note, that vote would have been the last one LaTourette ever cast as a member of Congress, as he is retiring on Thursday.


Oh yeah, this compromise bill is dead in the water.
 
2013-01-01 03:59:15 PM

Mighty Taternuts: Does that graph include the costs of wars during the Bush years. Remember they were off the budget and Obama put the, back in.


Yes, see how the area for the Defense spending bumps up and then falls during the present? From here it levels off according to the CBO models.
 
2013-01-01 03:59:39 PM

HeadLever: Kuroshin: So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg

Me too, but the trend is tenuous. Look at this bill for a perfect example. It actually contains spending increases. And if you look at Bush's years, Obama is far above his average (yes, it is not all of his fault, however, it is all our problem). See the overall spending pattern in the Chart 9 where it dips some before continuing to climb at an exponential pace? That is what I am worried about.


Oh yes, we are definitely at a crossroads in regards to spending v. GDP.  It's one of the reasons I'm more in favor of driving right over that "cliff", rather than go with some half-assed compromised spending and tax bill that does nothing but temporarily slow down the pending spike.  Not that the "cliff" is ideal - far from it - but addressing one item at a time, and forcing those petulant children in the House to grow the fark up will be best for us in the long-term.

Decreasing spending in the right areas, in the right way, is imperative - just as important as ending many of the tax discounts (most of which only aid those who will never know need in their lives).  Load balancing needs to happen, and it needs to happen years ago.
 
2013-01-01 03:59:59 PM

The real fiscal cliff story: how the entire American political class convinced itself that unemployment is no longer worth thinking about.

- davidfrum (@davidfrum) January 1, 2013


Bingo.
 
2013-01-01 04:01:06 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: Where did I say that? Oh yeah I didn't say that.

Normally you seem like a smart guy on here so not sure why you are wigging out on this so much. When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?

1) If you aren't advocating the Freeper position as the truth, then why the fark did you bring it up? You seem to really enjoy non-sequitors.


When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?


I thought that covered it. Do I need to reword that or use all caps?
Never said it was true. I said: When people are saying something is the worst deal ever usually it means they did not win.

Can you point out where I said the person is telling the truth? because I don't see it, I only says "someone said something" never said it was the truth or not.
 
2013-01-01 04:01:08 PM

TheOther: DamnYankees: Ross Douthat  @DouthatNYT
Seems like superdupermajority for Sen. bill could be emboldening House Rs. "If so many Dems voted 'yes' at 450K, why not try them at 750K?"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

An entirely unforeseeable consequence...


Love. It. Go ahead House R(etard)s...

25.media.tumblr.com

Then Obama drops the gun-to-the-head tax cuts and double-dog-dares you to say no.
 
2013-01-01 04:01:21 PM
So to sum up, Republicans suck.

/ fark them up their stupid arses
 
2013-01-01 04:01:35 PM

Corvus: Yes Medicare & SS is a seperate budget which currently have positive money (that are all IOUs because it was borrowed from the main budget).


?

SS is running at a deficit. Positive? Not sure what you are talking about here. The trust fund is not a pot of money but another sector of Government debt. Nothing positive about it.
 
2013-01-01 04:02:12 PM
NBC reporting there were 40 GOPers who spoke out in their caucus meeting. 37 spoke against the plan.
 
2013-01-01 04:02:16 PM

HeadLever: GAT_00: May have something to do with a recession that is slow to recover due to huge government spending cuts and businesses that no longer create jobs despite record profits.

One is sustainable and one is not. I'll let you figure out which is which.


Record profits.

What do I win?
 
2013-01-01 04:02:59 PM

evil saltine: GoldSpider: How do we encourage businesses to hire?

Taxcuts for the "job creators". Wealthy people like to invest willy-nilly in creating jobs for which there are no demand.


And when a "job creator" buys things for their business or hires someone that money is then not taxed. Costs for businesses are deducted, so the whole argument is just plain stupid.
 
2013-01-01 04:03:40 PM

HeadLever: Corvus: Yes Medicare & SS is a seperate budget which currently have positive money (that are all IOUs because it was borrowed from the main budget).

?

SS is running at a deficit. Positive? Not sure what you are talking about here. The trust fund is not a pot of money but another sector of Government debt. Nothing positive about it.


Eliminate the cap.

Solved.
 
2013-01-01 04:03:41 PM

Kuroshin: It's one of the reasons I'm more in favor of driving right over that "cliff", rather than go with some half-assed compromised spending and tax bill that does nothing but temporarily slow down the pending spike.


This bill accelerates spending. It does nothing to slow it down. It may slow down the deficit some as the tax increases are in excess of the spending increase. however, that is marginal.

And with this, I am out of here. too much football to watch.
 
2013-01-01 04:04:43 PM
Any other democracy on the planet, there are riots in the streets, and govenmental collapse. Here, we're all too busy talking about the Cardasian babby.

Also, to House Republicans:
i284.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-01 04:04:54 PM

HeadLever: Mighty Taternuts: Does that graph include the costs of wars during the Bush years. Remember they were off the budget and Obama put the, back in.

Yes, see how the area for the Defense spending bumps up and then falls during the present? From here it levels off according to the CBO models.


I should have been more specific. Your second chart which just has the numbers and the Presidents in a bar chart, not lines.
 
2013-01-01 04:05:22 PM

GoldSpider: GAT_00: May have something to do with a recession that is slow to recover due to huge government spending cuts and businesses that no longer create jobs despite record profits.

Two serious questions:

2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?


Businesses and consumers like stability. If half the government didn't regularly threaten to crash the entire economy then demand might be a bit higher and businesses might feel more comfortable bringing on new staff.

Oh, and make offshoring less attractive.
 
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