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(CNN)   Will Republicans remember to come into work today? Will Nancy Pelosi bite anyone? Will John Boehner replace his gavel with a whiskey bottle? It's your "House of Representatives fiscal cliff vote" thread (House starts their session at noon today)   (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 592
    More: Interesting, a.m. ET  
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2163 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jan 2013 at 12:00 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-01 03:06:01 PM  

Gosling: And once again the GOP snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.


Senate Democratic aide on whether they'll take up a bil amended by House GOP: "They are full of hot air. Not a chance we come back."

- Ryan Grim (@ryangrim) January 1, 2013


The consensus is the House GOP is full of it.
 
2013-01-01 03:07:23 PM  

KarmicDisaster: So, in Republican World, any temporary tax relief you provide is actually "raising taxes" because the tax break will eventually expire, right? And whoever had the hot "potatoe" when the tax break expires did it, right?


Which by that logic make any "temporary" tax cut a "tax increase" (because it makes taxes rise at a later date)so all the Republicans have voted for tax increases.

Too bad Republicans don't take their beliefs to logical conclusions and they are hodgepodge of justifications to support the positions they already have.

For example their hatred for "activists judges" but their huge support of Judges striking down anything Obama does.
 
2013-01-01 03:09:29 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: House GOP consensus emerging, lawmaker says: Send #fiscalcliff bill back to #Senate w/spending cuts- Lisa Mascaro (@LisaMascaroinDC) January 1, 2013


That's a pretty amazing choice, considering the Senate passed their bill 89-8.
 
2013-01-01 03:11:42 PM  

quizzical: Dusk-You-n-Me: House GOP consensus emerging, lawmaker says: Send #fiscalcliff bill back to #Senate w/spending cuts- Lisa Mascaro (@LisaMascaroinDC) January 1, 2013

That's a pretty amazing choice, considering the Senate passed their bill 89-8.


I get the feeling they're going to try and poison pill it by demanding cuts to entitlements in the hopes that Dems will reject it and thus (in theory) open themselves up to blame.
 
2013-01-01 03:13:46 PM  
PLEASE AMEND THIS BILL. The lulz would be epic.
 
2013-01-01 03:14:03 PM  

LazarusLong42: The debt and deficit are not our current problem.


I'll disagree. When the interest on the debt eats up about 20% of the entire federal tax revenue (and remember how low interest rates are currently), it is a huge problem. only those that have no clue are the ones that pretend that this is not a problem. Just imagine what will happen to this cost when interest rates normalize. While i'll agree that it is not the biggest problem in the short term, it is THE most serious long term problems that we currently face as a country and that small changes right now have huge implications for future generations. Kicking that can down the road isn't going to work for much longer.

The economy has found a footing. It is not a great one, but we need to start looking to the long term sooner rather than later. Propping up short term bubbles while sacrificing long term fiscal security is not something that most want us to see.
 
2013-01-01 03:17:37 PM  
Serious, these people are asses!!

Obama: Here is a compromise, is this ok?

Bohener (and house GOP): No, screw you we will write our own bill.

[writes own bill]

Bohener (and house GOP): Umm we don't like our own bill. Senate you have to write us a bi-partisan bill and we will then vote on it!

Senate: Wow that's hard, but we did it! Here it is.

Bohener (and house GOP): No! we don't want this either!!!


Ok so they don't like the Presidents bill, they don't like the Senates bill, the don't even like THEIR OWN bill. It seems to me there is no one left for Bohener and the house Republicans to pass the buck to anymore.

Might as well just send everyone home and dive off the fiscal cliff then.
 
2013-01-01 03:18:24 PM  
You have GOT to be kidding me! Really???
 
2013-01-01 03:18:33 PM  

LazarusLong42: Spending needs to continue in the short-term in order to get the economy back in order.


The problem with this general statement is that this spending creates artificial bubbles that are not sustainable. Look at the entitlement spending for a perfect example of this. Assuming that we can simply pull back this spending at an arbitrary point pretty much goes against all history. Once established, government spending rarely ever is reduced. Look at this deal for a perfect example. Spending is actually increased under this deal.
 
2013-01-01 03:20:22 PM  

HeadLever: Once established, government spending rarely ever is reduced.


Budget Control Act. $1.5T cuts in spending in exchange for no tax increases, signed by Obama.
 
2013-01-01 03:21:14 PM  
Biden Leaves Dems Meeting

At 2:06 p.m. Tuesday, Biden swept out of back door of a Democratic caucus meeting about the fiscal cliff deal without giving any concrete indication of what had gone on in an hour and a half of talking and answering questions.

I asked him if he had the votes and he said, "you're an old hand and you know that I never predict the vote." I asked him what the most effective argument was that he had made and he said, "you'll have to ask the members that."

He smiled the usual Biden sincerely frozen grimace and added, "I'm a 'foreign policy expert!' Why am I here doing this?"

Then he disappeared up the escalator surrounded by a cloud of aides and security officers.

-- Howard Fineman

Source
 
2013-01-01 03:21:24 PM  

HeadLever: I'll disagree. When the interest on the debt eats up about 20% of the entire federal tax revenue (and remember how low interest rates are currently), it is a huge problem. only those that have no clue are the ones that pretend that this is not a problem. Just imagine what will happen to this cost when interest rates normalize. While i'll agree that it is not the biggest problem in the short term, it is THE most serious long term problems that we currently face as a country and that small changes right now have huge implications for future generations. Kicking that can down the road isn't going to work for much longer.


It is a problem. It's a long term problem. Look at Europe if you think making huge cuts and tax increases are a good idea with a weak economy. One reason our deficit shot up was because of losing revenue because people are out of work and are on getting government aid. Fixing that would be a huge help to the deficit. (I believe its about 600 billion that added to the deficit because of the recession)
 
2013-01-01 03:21:41 PM  
 
2013-01-01 03:22:29 PM  

LazarusLong42: in the long term the debt will increase even more due to a continued sagging economy.


And when the future debt will be a direct contribution to a sagging economy. It is a catch 22 we face right now. Not many good options. I vote we need to pick the one that give us a chance in the future. Not this one:

theeconomiccollapseblog.com
 
2013-01-01 03:22:53 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-01 03:23:48 PM  
Word is that Cantor essentially rejected the deal right in Boehner's face. The House GOP was pleasantly surprised.

The next words Cantor says to Boehner will be 'EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINAAAAAATE!'
 
2013-01-01 03:24:02 PM  

Corvus: One reason our deficit shot up was because of losing revenue because people are out of work and are on getting government aid.


Ayup.


The deficit ballooned in 2009 because of the Great Recession. It knocked so many people out of work that tax revenues dropped to the lowest share of the economy in over sixty years. (The Bush tax cuts on the rich also reduced revenues.) The recession also boosted government spending on a stimulus program and on safety nets like unemployment insurance and food stamps.

But as the nation slowly emerges from recession, more people are employed - generating more tax revenues, and requiring less spending on safety nets and stimulus. That's why the deficit is shrinking.  Link
 
2013-01-01 03:24:12 PM  

HeadLever: Once established, government spending rarely ever is reduced. Look at this deal for a perfect example. Spending is actually increased under this deal.


You are aware that the countries population increases every year which does increase the need for government spending? Is that lost on you?
 
2013-01-01 03:25:39 PM  

Gosling: Word is that Cantor essentially rejected the deal right in Boehner's face. The House GOP was pleasantly surprised.

The next words Cantor says to Boehner will be 'EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINAAAAAATE!'


Link?
 
2013-01-01 03:26:14 PM  
Hahaha! Yessss, amend away you buncha tools. Do it!!
 
2013-01-01 03:26:21 PM  

Corvus: Probably because I was no addressing your question at all. I am addressing your overall complaint against is that he should be doing more for political gain instead of trying to help people.


False Dilemma Fallacy. Look at all the help he's providing to the American people by treating the GOP with respect! Really getting a lot done, aren't we?

You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.
 
2013-01-01 03:27:12 PM  

DamnYankees: Gosling: Word is that Cantor essentially rejected the deal right in Boehner's face. The House GOP was pleasantly surprised.

The next words Cantor says to Boehner will be 'EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINAAAAAATE!'

Link?


Go to Twitter and type in 'cantor'. The feed's blowing to smithereens over it.
 
2013-01-01 03:28:23 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Corvus: One reason our deficit shot up was because of losing revenue because people are out of work and are on getting government aid.

Ayup.


The deficit ballooned in 2009 because of the Great Recession. It knocked so many people out of work that tax revenues dropped to the lowest share of the economy in over sixty years. (The Bush tax cuts on the rich also reduced revenues.) The recession also boosted government spending on a stimulus program and on safety nets like unemployment insurance and food stamps.

But as the nation slowly emerges from recession, more people are employed - generating more tax revenues, and requiring less spending on safety nets and stimulus. That's why the deficit is shrinking.  Link


Yes but this pisses off Republicans because their dogma is the helping people out of a tough spot doesn't help everyone else. Their dogma is that you "punish" poor because they are not boot strapy enough.

It's like protestant beliefs turned into economics. Rich people are like people in heaven. They are the good and should be rewarded poor people are the evil and must be punished.
 
2013-01-01 03:30:47 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Budget Control Act. $1.5T cuts in spending in exchange for no tax increases, signed by Obama.


That was the goal for the supercommittee. We all know how that turned out.

The actual amount was about $900B over 10 years (average of about 8% of our current deficit). a decent start. Short of fixing much.
 
2013-01-01 03:30:49 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.


The patty-cakes bullshiat is also known as 'giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves'. This is Obama being able to say in no uncertain terms, 'Look how much I've tried to compromise. I've compromised so much my own party is angry at me. But they won't listen to reason.' The shiat-knocking will come on Thursday.
 
2013-01-01 03:31:57 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: Probably because I was no addressing your question at all. I am addressing your overall complaint against is that he should be doing more for political gain instead of trying to help people.

False Dilemma Fallacy. Look at all the help he's providing to the American people by treating the GOP with respect! Really getting a lot done, aren't we?

You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.


Oh good grief, this isn't a debate class, it's politics.  I'm sorry you're mad that there's now only a 98% percent chance that you'll end up getting exactly what you want, but that's life.
 
2013-01-01 03:31:58 PM  
The House cannot possibly be that stup...

Wait, this is the House. Never mind.
 
2013-01-01 03:32:43 PM  

Gosling: LouDobbsAwaaaay: You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.

The patty-cakes bullshiat is also known as 'giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves'. This is Obama being able to say in no uncertain terms, 'Look how much I've tried to compromise. I've compromised so much my own party is angry at me. But they won't listen to reason.' The shiat-knocking will come on Thursday.


Yeah I listened to this excuse for four years. "He's playing 319-dimensional chess! The payoff is coming! Just you wait!" Still haven't seen anything but endless capitulation to GOP demands at every stage of the process.
 
2013-01-01 03:33:33 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: Probably because I was no addressing your question at all. I am addressing your overall complaint against is that he should be doing more for political gain instead of trying to help people.

False Dilemma Fallacy. Look at all the help he's providing to the American people by treating the GOP with respect! Really getting a lot done, aren't we?

You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.


I took logic in college and logical fallacies. Don't just rattle them off and pretend you prove something you look like an idiot.


No it's not a false dilemma because you yourself said he should go over the fiscal cliff. Doing that would hurt lots Americans. you can pretend it won't but it will.

Are you saying no American would be hurt from 2 million people losing their unemployment insurance?
'

That's false to you?
 
2013-01-01 03:33:54 PM  

Corvus: You are aware that the countries population increases every year which does increase the need for government spending? Is that lost on you?


Nope, but the increase in population is about 1% a year. My take in spending increases is per GDP, which accounts for this (and inflation).

factcheck.org
 
2013-01-01 03:33:56 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: House GOP consensus emerging, lawmaker says: Send #fiscalcliff bill back to #Senate w/spending cuts- Lisa Mascaro (@LisaMascaroinDC) January 1, 2013


I'm actually happy the GOP is so stupid.  They could have gotten to do this all over again in two months with more cuts, but they don't like it.
 
2013-01-01 03:34:00 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Gosling: LouDobbsAwaaaay: You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.

The patty-cakes bullshiat is also known as 'giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves'. This is Obama being able to say in no uncertain terms, 'Look how much I've tried to compromise. I've compromised so much my own party is angry at me. But they won't listen to reason.' The shiat-knocking will come on Thursday.

Yeah I listened to this excuse for four years. "He's playing 319-dimensional chess! The payoff is coming! Just you wait!" Still haven't seen anything but endless capitulation to GOP demands at every stage of the process.


...and this time is the same how? Because the Obama that I've seen publicly calling out the Republicans on their bullshiat this time isn't the one I remember from the debt ceiling or health care bills.
 
2013-01-01 03:34:28 PM  

Mentat: Oh good grief, this isn't a debate class, it's politics.  I'm sorry you're mad that there's now only a 98% percent chance that you'll end up getting exactly what you want, but that's life.


Nice to see the Obama cheerleaders retreating to their home-position. "Stop complaining! We're trying to make this look good!"
 
2013-01-01 03:35:45 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Yeah I listened to this excuse for four years. "He's playing 319-dimensional chess! The payoff is coming! Just you wait!" Still haven't seen anything but endless capitulation to GOP demands at every stage of the process.


We already know the shiat-kicking bill is in the pipeline. It was be the first one introduced on Thursday by the Democrats. It takes back everything that Obama offered up and goes right back to the $250K threshold.
 
2013-01-01 03:36:10 PM  

tudorgurl: UPDATE: 12:21 PM - Today
Republicans Delay Fiscal Cliff Deal Vote

In a sign that the fiscal cliff deal could face an uncertain future in the House, Republican leaders delayed their planned vote on the measure and were expected to meet twice before going to the floor of the House in the late afternoon or evening.

If the House amends the bill passed by the Senate early this morning, or worse, offers a whole new bill, it could throw the seeming certainty achieved by the Senate out the window. Many observers had seen the strong bipartisan vote in the Senate -- including such conservatives as former Club For Growth head Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) -- as an encouraging sign that Tea Party House members could also hold their noses and go along.

-- Mike McAuliff

Source


gifsoup.com
 
2013-01-01 03:36:39 PM  

IMDWalrus: ...and this time is the same how? Because the Obama that I've seen publicly calling out the Republicans on their bullshiat this time isn't the one I remember from the debt ceiling or health care bills.


The end result looks like it's shaping up to be the same. I'm not interested in an Obama who manages to squeak out a whisper of protest here and there before caving and giving the GOP whatever they want.
 
2013-01-01 03:37:38 PM  

HeadLever: Corvus: You are aware that the countries population increases every year which does increase the need for government spending? Is that lost on you?

Nope, but the increase in population is about 1% a year. My take in spending increases is per GDP, which accounts for this (and inflation).

[factcheck.org image 502x389]


So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg
 
2013-01-01 03:38:08 PM  
"Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."
 
2013-01-01 03:38:32 PM  
Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?
 
2013-01-01 03:38:55 PM  

Corvus: It is a problem. It's a long term problem. Look at Europe if you think making huge cuts and tax increases are a good idea with a weak economy. One reason our deficit shot up was because of losing revenue because people are out of work and are on getting government aid. Fixing that would be a huge help to the deficit. (I believe its about 600 billion that added to the deficit because of the recession)


I would go further and say that employing people at wages where they don't have to rely on any aid just to live would cure not only the deficit ills, but most of the "mental health" problems that people are blaming for all the mass shootings that are going around.
 
2013-01-01 03:39:10 PM  

Gosling: We already know the shiat-kicking bill is in the pipeline. It was be the first one introduced on Thursday by the Democrats. It takes back everything that Obama offered up and goes right back to the $250K threshold.


That will be a victory for congressional Democrats. All Obama is trying to do is squelch it by twisting his own people's arms to accept a terrible, capitulating "compromise". The Dems in congress shouldn't have to work around the Dem President.
 
2013-01-01 03:39:54 PM  

Infernalist: Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?


They WILL BE sending it back. They delayed their vote on it, most likely to amend it with stuff that has no chance in hell of passing the Senate.

Because compromise is a sign of weakness. Or something.
 
2013-01-01 03:40:44 PM  

Infernalist: Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?


I think they're still in the process of farking it up, but other than that, you pretty much got it.
 
2013-01-01 03:41:33 PM  
Ross Douthat  @DouthatNYT
Seems like superdupermajority for Sen. bill could be emboldening House Rs. "If so many Dems voted 'yes' at 450K, why not try them at 750K?"
 
2013-01-01 03:42:23 PM  

Corvus: quizzical: The good folks at Free Republic hate the deal. The Boobies is a plea to call GOP Congressmen. Other posts say to "let Ubama drive us off the cliff," that the GOP who vote for it are "sheep," and that if it passes the House, it will be because of "Rats and Rinos" working together. People believe Boehner will lose the Speakership if it passes. Also, the whole fiscal cliff is a media conspiracy, so that the media can broadcast the fact that Republicans voted for a tax hike, loose seats in Congress, and then Obama will be able to pass Amnesty and gun control.

Yep, this is what I have been saying. The Republicans have two choices, don't vote for it and let taxes go up on everyone or vote for it and vote for "Obama's tax increase". Both means putting their seat in jeopardy.

This wound is totally self inflicted by the Republicans too. It would be funny if it didn't actually impact people's lives.


To be fair, they were fully expecting to win the presidency and every House and Senate seat in November. Somebody screwed up.
 
2013-01-01 03:42:45 PM  

Infernalist: Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?


House hasn't officially taken a dump yet. Cantor stood up at the private Republican meeting and told Bohener that he objected. The feeling is that Republicans will vote to amend the bill and add spending cuts. But Pelosi is trying to get Boehner to bring it up for a vote as is.
 
2013-01-01 03:43:17 PM  

HeadLever: Corvus: You are aware that the countries population increases every year which does increase the need for government spending? Is that lost on you?

Nope, but the increase in population is about 1% a year. My take in spending increases is per GDP, which accounts for this (and inflation).

[factcheck.org image 502x389]


You changed the subject. You said their should be NO GROWTH. Now you admit government DOES in general need to increase.

I NEVER said it's growing ONLY at the rate of population increase. My point was that you claim that government shouldn't grow at all is stupid because it should.

And GDP is not population either so your chart has no bearing at all to my point.


We've explained things to you many time already and you seem to ignore anytime someone points out your assumptions are wrong.

By the way did you notice your chart shows spending went DOWN (as a percent of GDP) which disproves another of your simpleton statements you pretended to be a truism earlier.
 
2013-01-01 03:43:20 PM  

Infernalist: Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?


No, but they've tweeted that poop is coming out.
 
2013-01-01 03:43:34 PM  

DamnYankees: Ross Douthat  @DouthatNYT
Seems like superdupermajority for Sen. bill could be emboldening House Rs. "If so many Dems voted 'yes' at 450K, why not try them at 750K?"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

An entirely unforeseeable consequence...
 
2013-01-01 03:43:45 PM  

sonnyboy11: Infernalist: Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?

I think they're still in the process of farking it up, but other than that, you pretty much got it.


This pleases me. Thank God for the retarded House GOP. They'll ruin this compromise and force us over the cliff. We'll get massive cuts, tax rates go back to where they should be and we'll get Democrat bills on the first day of the new Congress fixing the Middle Class taxes back down to where they were.

With any luck, we'll see some Democrat bills authorizing agency managers to strategically cut out wasteful programs to satisfy the sequester 12% requirements.
 
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