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(CNN)   Will Republicans remember to come into work today? Will Nancy Pelosi bite anyone? Will John Boehner replace his gavel with a whiskey bottle? It's your "House of Representatives fiscal cliff vote" thread (House starts their session at noon today)   (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 592
    More: Interesting, a.m. ET  
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2148 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jan 2013 at 12:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-01 12:37:37 PM

DamnYankees: Nice to see a Catholic Priest in Congress. How lovely.


So much for that nice anti-establishment clause.

If only those gun nuts loved the first amendment as much as their second amendment.....
 
2013-01-01 12:38:27 PM
Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but if the Teapublicans scuttle this, it could be the best possible outcome for the WH. Obama/Biden hammer out a deal that reflects actual compromise on all parties, but the House GOP kills it anyway, definitively sending us over the cliff.
 
2013-01-01 12:40:12 PM

Mentat: stiletto_the_wise: Exactly. As the D's compromise and compromise, the R's will keep moving their baseline position farther and farther to the right. I've never seen a group of people who are as good at taking a strong bargaining position and turning it into weakness as the Democrats.

I don't know how many times this has to be said: Nothing is official until the President signs a bill.  To this point, the Tea Party caucus in the House has scuttled every deal put before them, even by their own leadership.  If that stays true to form, Obama can offer any concessions he wants without fear of consequence.  If the Tea Party accepts the deal, Obama gets a decent bill and some grumbling from the liberal caucus.  If the Tea Party kills the deal, we officially go off the cliff and Obama can put the screws to them.  It's win-win for the Democrats.  Yes, I would like to see a better deal that doesn't involve going off the cliff, but this is politics.  Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them.  Save your outrage for whatever bill is actually signed into law, not for unofficial deals that stand a good chance of failing once they hit the House.


I like the President, but he's a terrible negotiator and would never veto this agreement if it survives the House.

If he had a line in the sand he would have said so to Biden before he dispatched him to cut a deal with McConnell.
 
2013-01-01 12:41:25 PM

Therion: Another dumb question, dumb question, dumb question, "It's your!" declarative statement Fark headline, and people wonder why political discussions are treated like sports?


Awww. Does em got a butthurt? Does em got a butthurt? Relax, Beatrice, it's a joke. You see, Boehner's an alcoholic, so it's funny to imagine a whiskey bottle in place of a gavel. In part, because it's plausible for that weepy drunk cheeto.
 
2013-01-01 12:43:15 PM

OneBrightMonkey: I like the President, but he's a terrible negotiator and would never veto this agreement if it survives the House.

If he had a line in the sand he would have said so to Biden before he dispatched him to cut a deal with McConnell.


I've heard that Obama's apparently terrible negotiation strategy might stem from his desire to be considered the "post-partisan" President, making him more interested in failing to reach compromise than to successfully brow-beat the GOP back into the corner where they belong.
 
2013-01-01 12:44:13 PM

Granny_Panties: Troll Face Fartbama wins again and the GOP cries.


If by wins you mean screws over working people in favor of the rich, sure.

Obama has said repeatedly he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling. Given his track record, how many people actually believe that? Exactly no one except hardcore Obamatons. The GOP will take that hostage again, extract even more damaging spending cuts and rips to the safety net, and call it a day. Sure, Obama "won" $600B in revenue but it'll cost, what, another trillion in cuts? So in the past 14 months Obama will have garnered 4:1 spending cuts to revenues ($2.5T : $0.6T). That is literally insanity, we've already slashed discretionary spending to the bone.

This country's infrastructure is falling apart, our scientific research is being starved, and millions are immiserated because there aren't enough jobs. Spending cuts are the absolute dumbest course of action imaginable.
 
2013-01-01 12:45:33 PM

Mentat: Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them.


I wonder if this is why he trolled them in his speech last night
 
2013-01-01 12:45:37 PM

stoli n coke: Therion: Another dumb question, dumb question, dumb question, "It's your!" declarative statement Fark headline, and people wonder why political discussions are treated like sports?

Awww. Does em got a butthurt? Does em got a butthurt? Relax, Beatrice, it's a joke. You see, Boehner's an alcoholic, so it's funny to imagine a whiskey bottle in place of a gavel. In part, because it's plausible for that weepy drunk cheeto.


Great, now I want cheetos. And a drink.
 
2013-01-01 12:46:10 PM
Tom Cole (R-OK) is telling MSNBC that this first meeting will be partially so people have a chance to read the bill.

They haven't read it yet. Really. Really.
 
2013-01-01 12:48:03 PM

Granny_Panties: My prediction:

Obama gets sensible "entitlement" and military spending cuts.
Taxes cut for the 1% will go back to reasonable rates like the 1990's.
No taxes raised on middle class.

No guns are banned in 2013.

Troll Face Fartbama wins again and the GOP cries.


That's what happens when a grown-up is in office instead of a frat boy and Sen. Palpantine.
 
2013-01-01 12:48:07 PM

Rwa2play: GAT_00: Anyone else actually hoping for more Boehner incompetence?  Kicking this thing down the road two months so the GOP can lump it into the debt ceiling and we can do that again is 15 different kinds of bad.  Biden all but guaranteed that we'll have to deal with demands for spending cuts for passing the debt ceiling.

This deal needs to die.

Pretty much; this is one instance I hope the TP-types just kill it altogether under the delusion that Obama will yield more ground...Only for Obama to put the middle-class tax cut bill up for Congress and practically putting the gun to the TP's heads and daring them to pull the trigger.


THIS is how I would prefer things to turn out.

Literally.  Just.  Like.  This.
 
2013-01-01 12:48:26 PM

Gosling: Tom Cole (R-OK) is telling MSNBC that this first meeting will be partially so people have a chance to read the bill.

They haven't read it yet. Really. Really.


I was under the impression that Congressmen rarely read bills. They have people to do that for them.
 
2013-01-01 12:48:43 PM
My money is on boner crying like a little girl by days end.
 
2013-01-01 12:49:40 PM
I'm finding it hard to care anymore especially with football on. At this point don't we all expect them to ruin the country?
 
2013-01-01 12:50:33 PM

Mentat: stiletto_the_wise: Exactly. As the D's compromise and compromise, the R's will keep moving their baseline position farther and farther to the right. I've never seen a group of people who are as good at taking a strong bargaining position and turning it into weakness as the Democrats.

I don't know how many times this has to be said: Nothing is official until the President signs a bill.  To this point, the Tea Party caucus in the House has scuttled every deal put before them, even by their own leadership.  If that stays true to form, Obama can offer any concessions he wants without fear of consequence.  If the Tea Party accepts the deal, Obama gets a decent bill and some grumbling from the liberal caucus.  If the Tea Party kills the deal, we officially go off the cliff and Obama can put the screws to them.  It's win-win for the Democrats.  Yes, I would like to see a better deal that doesn't involve going off the cliff, but this is politics.  Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them.  Save your outrage for whatever bill is actually signed into law, not for unofficial deals that stand a good chance of failing once they hit the House.


...do you not see how this would backfire in the President's face if those grumbling Democrats get rowdy? Already guys like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich have savaged the deal, and hell, I hope that if the Tea Party doesn't kill it, those Democrats that are as liberal as Dean and Kucinich will.

/Again, this isn't a compromise; it's a failure in leadership.
 
2013-01-01 12:50:50 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: Obama has said repeatedly he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling. Given his track record, how many people actually believe that? Exactly no one except hardcore Obamatons.


THIS. The man is incapable of standing his ground.
 
2013-01-01 12:51:26 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: Granny_Panties: Troll Face Fartbama wins again and the GOP cries.

If by wins you mean screws over working people in favor of the rich, sure.

Obama has said repeatedly he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling. Given his track record, how many people actually believe that? Exactly no one except hardcore Obamatons. The GOP will take that hostage again, extract even more damaging spending cuts and rips to the safety net, and call it a day. Sure, Obama "won" $600B in revenue but it'll cost, what, another trillion in cuts? So in the past 14 months Obama will have garnered 4:1 spending cuts to revenues ($2.5T : $0.6T). That is literally insanity, we've already slashed discretionary spending to the bone.

This country's infrastructure is falling apart, our scientific research is being starved, and millions are immiserated because there aren't enough jobs. Spending cuts are the absolute dumbest course of action imaginable.


Politics 101 - What a president does in his second term is not always the same as in his first.
 
2013-01-01 12:54:26 PM

Waxing_Chewbacca: mayIFark: So, even if it passes, my taxes went up for a day? I pay at one rate for 364 days and a different rate for a day?

It'll be retro


What a retro bill might look like:

www.pacatholic.org
 
2013-01-01 12:54:47 PM

TofuTheAlmighty: Granny_Panties: Troll Face Fartbama wins again and the GOP cries.

If by wins you mean screws over working people in favor of the rich, sure.

Obama has said repeatedly he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling. Given his track record, how many people actually believe that? Exactly no one except hardcore Obamatons. The GOP will take that hostage again, extract even more damaging spending cuts and rips to the safety net, and call it a day. Sure, Obama "won" $600B in revenue but it'll cost, what, another trillion in cuts? So in the past 14 months Obama will have garnered 4:1 spending cuts to revenues ($2.5T : $0.6T). That is literally insanity, we've already slashed discretionary spending to the bone.

This country's infrastructure is falling apart, our scientific research is being starved, and millions are immiserated because there aren't enough jobs. Spending cuts are the absolute dumbest course of action imaginable.


the Democrat's payroll tax cut was a major threat to the social safety net. In the past two years, $250 billion that was supposed to go entitlements went elsewhere. if Dems had their way, that would continue for the foreseeable future.

thank goodness that nonsense was stopped.
 
2013-01-01 12:55:35 PM
You know the tea-tards are going to shoot the hostage. This compromise will go down in flames and the stock market crashes tomorrow....or not.
 
2013-01-01 12:56:52 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Mentat: Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them.

I wonder if this is why he trolled them in his speech last night


Bachmann just fumed about the president doing just this. +1
 
2013-01-01 12:57:26 PM

IlGreven: ...do you not see how this would backfire in the President's face if those grumbling Democrats get rowdy? Already guys like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich have savaged the deal, and hell, I hope that if the Tea Party doesn't kill it, those Democrats that are as liberal as Dean and Kucinich will.

/Again, this isn't a compromise; it's a failure in leadership.


I think the Dems are on board to let this one go. Kucinich will vote no, but Dean isn't in Congress and never has been and there are more than enough Democrats willing to swallow their tongue and let it get to Obama's desk. It's on Boehner to allow that to happen.
 
2013-01-01 12:57:34 PM

carterjw: Waxing_Chewbacca: mayIFark: So, even if it passes, my taxes went up for a day? I pay at one rate for 364 days and a different rate for a day?

It'll be retro

What a retro bill might look like:

[www.pacatholic.org image 200x201]


Tax legislation cannot be retroactive.

/PITA
 
2013-01-01 01:01:35 PM
This is how stupid the Republican party is, they think waiting a day magically turns "tax increases" into "tax cuts".

It's a party that caters to idiots. If you vote for these people you are an idiot.
 
2013-01-01 01:02:49 PM
GOP offered $800 billion in new revenue through "tax reform", instead of rate increases, to happen at a later date (unlikely)

Obama wanted $800 billion through "tax reform" and another $800 billion through rate increases. the rate increse would be immediate, with unlikely tax reform later.

Obama got $600 billion in automatic rate increases.

and somehow, to the liberal, he's the worst negotiator ever.
 
2013-01-01 01:03:42 PM

rohar: Tax legislation cannot be retroactive.


yes, it can.

It is now. it's 2013 now. Also they are fixing the 2012 AMT in the the bill. That's retroactive.
 
2013-01-01 01:04:34 PM

Waxing_Chewbacca: stiletto_the_wise: Raises taxes only on the super-rich, but leaves the rich making $250K-$400K untouched. Thanks for sticking with your principles, spineless Democrats. You could have just run out the clock but you caved.

150k difference isn't worth it in the grand scheme. This is a decent deal.  The economy can't take more of this BS.  Compromise means you aren't entirely satisfied.  Pass the bill and tackle the remaining issues one at a time.


It's a decent deal in a vacuum. It's a horrible deal when you realize there's a debt cieling fight coming in two months in which the Democrats now have zero leverage and the GOP once again knows Obama will always fold. Any gain made in this deal will simply be lost in March.
 
2013-01-01 01:06:42 PM

rohar: Tax legislation cannot be retroactive.


So you are trying to tell us this bill is for 2014?

/hint: it's not. it will change 2013 and even 2012 tax code. That is retroactive.
 
2013-01-01 01:06:43 PM

GAT_00: Anyone else actually hoping for more Boehner incompetence?  Kicking this thing down the road two months so the GOP can lump it into the debt ceiling and we can do that again is 15 different kinds of bad.  Biden all but guaranteed that we'll have to deal with demands for spending cuts for passing the debt ceiling.

This deal needs to die.


I was thinking the same thing.
 
2013-01-01 01:08:36 PM
Aaannnd republicans and republicanism shiatting on Americas chest in ...3 ...2 ...1

Seriously, you people are the problem with America. All you need to to figure out the GOP position on any given issue is to close your eyes and imagine "hmmm how would Sauron approach this", and you can be sure that's the choice they make. I swear, it literally works for everything.

Bunch of pants shiatting cowards.
 
2013-01-01 01:09:42 PM

Mentat: I don't know how many times this has to be said: Nothing is official until the President signs a bill. To this point, the Tea Party caucus in the House has scuttled every deal put before them, even by their own leadership. If that stays true to form, Obama can offer any concessions he wants without fear of consequence. If the Tea Party accepts the deal, Obama gets a decent bill and some grumbling from the liberal caucus. If the Tea Party kills the deal, we officially go off the cliff and Obama can put the screws to them. It's win-win for the Democrats. Yes, I would like to see a better deal that doesn't involve going off the cliff, but this is politics. Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them. Save your outrage for whatever bill is actually signed into law, not for unofficial deals that stand a good chance of failing once they hit the House.


You're right. It's possible that the Dems put this "reasonable compromise" together, knowing full well (and hoping) that the Tea Partiers will reject it. Not sure I'd believe they had the brains for a move like that, but we'll see.

I like the poker analogies. The White House thinks they have the highest hand, and they're putting out an information bet to see what the other side has.
 
2013-01-01 01:12:39 PM

Bontesla: GAT_00: Anyone else actually hoping for more Boehner incompetence?  Kicking this thing down the road two months so the GOP can lump it into the debt ceiling and we can do that again is 15 different kinds of bad.  Biden all but guaranteed that we'll have to deal with demands for spending cuts for passing the debt ceiling.

This deal needs to die.

I was thinking the same thing.


Just trading one hostage for another.
 
2013-01-01 01:13:43 PM

stiletto_the_wise: You're right. It's possible that the Dems put this "reasonable compromise" together, knowing full well (and hoping) that the Tea Partiers will reject it. Not sure I'd believe they had the brains for a move like that, but we'll see.


But they don't need lots of GOP votes, the only need some. That's why this whole thing is BS. They could get a much better deal like the bill passed by the senate but Bohener won't let them up for a vote.
 
2013-01-01 01:15:01 PM

DamnYankees: It's a decent deal in a vacuum. It's a horrible deal when you realize there's a debt cieling fight coming in two months in which the Democrats now have zero leverage and the GOP once again knows Obama will always fold. Any gain made in this deal will simply be lost in March.


It's only a horrible deal if it in fact turns out to be a deal. You're thinking that somehow the GOP has decided to start taking yes for an answer.
 
2013-01-01 01:16:18 PM

Gosling: DamnYankees: It's a decent deal in a vacuum. It's a horrible deal when you realize there's a debt cieling fight coming in two months in which the Democrats now have zero leverage and the GOP once again knows Obama will always fold. Any gain made in this deal will simply be lost in March.

It's only a horrible deal if it in fact turns out to be a deal. You're thinking that somehow the GOP has decided to start taking yes for an answer.


They don't need to. If Pelosi signed off on this, there's no way this won't pass. All Boehner needs to do it break the Hastert Rule, which is barely even a rule.
 
2013-01-01 01:16:27 PM

stiletto_the_wise: Mentat: I don't know how many times this has to be said: Nothing is official until the President signs a bill. To this point, the Tea Party caucus in the House has scuttled every deal put before them, even by their own leadership. If that stays true to form, Obama can offer any concessions he wants without fear of consequence. If the Tea Party accepts the deal, Obama gets a decent bill and some grumbling from the liberal caucus. If the Tea Party kills the deal, we officially go off the cliff and Obama can put the screws to them. It's win-win for the Democrats. Yes, I would like to see a better deal that doesn't involve going off the cliff, but this is politics. Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them. Save your outrage for whatever bill is actually signed into law, not for unofficial deals that stand a good chance of failing once they hit the House.

You're right. It's possible that the Dems put this "reasonable compromise" together, knowing full well (and hoping) that the Tea Partiers will reject it. Not sure I'd believe they had the brains for a move like that, but we'll see.

I like the poker analogies. The White House thinks they have the highest hand, and they're putting out an information bet to see what the other side has.


Either Boehner can't count so he can't tell them what he has or he can count and knows he doesn't have the votes.. That is why FTFA: any decision about a House vote on the fiscal cliff measure will come after a second GOP meeting later this afternoon is necessary.
 
2013-01-01 01:18:42 PM

IlGreven: ...do you not see how this would backfire in the President's face if those grumbling Democrats get rowdy? Already guys like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich have savaged the deal, and hell, I hope that if the Tea Party doesn't kill it, those Democrats that are as liberal as Dean and Kucinich will.


Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich aren't Congressmen and they were never exactly the darlings of the Party leadership anyway.  So far, the Democrats in Congress have been far more united than the Congressional Republicans.  It's far more likely that the GOP will crack before the Dems do.
 
2013-01-01 01:19:12 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: TofuTheAlmighty: Obama has said repeatedly he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling. Given his track record, how many people actually believe that? Exactly no one except hardcore Obamatons.

THIS. The man is incapable of standing his ground.


Do you remember the Republican farkers that suggested liberals were incapable of thinking ill against the messiah Obama?

I'd like to invite them to this thread for a kick in the nuts.
 
2013-01-01 01:20:14 PM
Is anyone watching the House live stream? ( Link )

Instead of dealing with the fiscal cliff legislation, the republicans have dropped a random, un-discussed bill to further freeze the pay of federal workers. Now they are talking about naming a post offices.

CAN WE GET ON WITH IT !!111!11
 
2013-01-01 01:20:18 PM

dumbobruni: GOP offered $800 billion in new revenue through "tax reform", instead of rate increases, to happen at a later date (unlikely)

Obama wanted $800 billion through "tax reform" and another $800 billion through rate increases. the rate increse would be immediate, with unlikely tax reform later.

Obama got $600 billion in automatic rate increases.

and somehow, to the liberal, he's the worst negotiator ever.


Who gives a shiat what the GOP was offering? They had no leverage in the negotiation, short of what Obama simply pretended they had. His (and your) insistence that the GOP should expect to get a single thing out of this is what makes him the worst negotiator ever.

The "deal" was simple: Go over the cliff, and then the dems introduce bills to cut taxes on the bottom 98%. The GOP is left either having to vote for dem bills or go into midterms with a track-record of shutting down tax-cuts on their constituents out of sheer stubbornness. The GOP has never once offered a single thing that is better than that scenario. Yet here we are.

Obama should have been flogging them with that scenario from day-1, and demanded an immediate lay-down on debt-ceiling raises, pending appointments, gay-rights, and filibuster reform even before the GOP is allowed to come to the table to discuss what else they were going to give up in order to get Obama to get them out of this mess. Now we get barely anything, and the debt-ceiling fight is coming up so Obama can give away everything else in the name of "compromise" while the GOP continues to block anything and everything.
 
2013-01-01 01:20:51 PM

OneBrightMonkey: I like the President, but he's a terrible negotiator and would never veto this agreement if it survives the House.


The President forced the GOP to agree to tax increases on the wealthy, an increase in the capital gains tax, and an increase in the estate tax, and you think he's a terrible negotiator?  Ok.
 
2013-01-01 01:21:17 PM

IlGreven: ...do you not see how this would backfire in the President's face if those grumbling Democrats get rowdy? Already guys like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich have savaged the deal, and hell, I hope that if the Tea Party doesn't kill it, those Democrats that are as liberal as Dean and Kucinich will.


And what do Dean and Kucinich have in common right now?

Neither of them got elected in November.
 
2013-01-01 01:22:06 PM

Mentat: OneBrightMonkey: I like the President, but he's a terrible negotiator and would never veto this agreement if it survives the House.

The President forced the GOP to agree to tax increases on the wealthy, an increase in the capital gains tax, and an increase in the estate tax, and you think he's a terrible negotiator?  Ok.


When all that stuff is literally worse than doing nothing? Yes, he's a terrible negotiator.
 
2013-01-01 01:22:31 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Who gives a shiat what the GOP was offering? They had no leverage in the negotiation, short of what Obama simply pretended they had. His (and your) insistence that the GOP should expect to get a single thing out of this is what makes him the worst negotiator ever.


You remind me of the guys on Pawn Stars who insist that their velvet Elvis is worth $5000 and then are shocked when Rick offers them $50.
 
2013-01-01 01:22:39 PM

DamnYankees: They don't need to. If Pelosi signed off on this, there's no way this won't pass. All Boehner needs to do it break the Hastert Rule, which is barely even a rule.


Which is BS. We could have fixed this long ago, if they let everyone bring bills to the floor.

Congress needs to change so both the minority and the majority party can bring bills for a vote. That is the only way that compromise can be forced. Logically if either party could bring bills for a vote then we would get more bi-partisan bills. If only the majority of the majority can bring bills then it means you will get very partisan legislation.
 
2013-01-01 01:22:56 PM

dumbobruni: GOP offered $800 billion in new revenue through "tax reform", instead of rate increases, to happen at a later date (unlikely)

Obama wanted $800 billion through "tax reform" and another $800 billion through rate increases. the rate increse would be immediate, with unlikely tax reform later.

Obama got $600 billion in automatic rate increases.

and somehow, to the liberal, he's the worst negotiator ever.


It's because Obamas track record. They wish he would be inflexible as a tea partier. There is a strength in no compromises, not even in the face of Armagedon.

Call them obstructionist- but they have been affecting GOP strategy.
 
2013-01-01 01:23:10 PM

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Obama should have been flogging them with that scenario from day-1, and demanded an immediate lay-down on debt-ceiling raises, pending appointments, gay-rights, and filibuster reform even before the GOP is allowed to come to the table to discuss what else they were going to give up in order to get Obama to get them out of this mess. Now we get barely anything, and the debt-ceiling fight is coming up so Obama can give away everything else in the name of "compromise" while the GOP continues to block anything and everything.


Maybe, JUST MAYBE, Obama believes there should be some cuts, like most reasonable people do, to things beyond the military.

Or you can impose your ideology on him and then berate him for not living up to it. Go with that.
 
2013-01-01 01:23:58 PM

saintstryfe: Maybe, JUST MAYBE, Obama believes there should be some cuts, like most reasonable people do, to things beyond the military.


Then why did he just agree to a deal with no cuts?
 
2013-01-01 01:24:16 PM

DamnYankees: When all that stuff is literally worse than doing nothing? Yes, he's a terrible negotiator.


Again, NOTHING IS OFFICIAL UNTIL THE PRESIDENT SIGNS THE BILL.  There is literally no risk to the President to compromise with the GOP if he believes the Tea Party will scuttle the deal and take us off the cliff anyway.
 
2013-01-01 01:25:30 PM

Gosling: IlGreven: ...do you not see how this would backfire in the President's face if those grumbling Democrats get rowdy? Already guys like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich have savaged the deal, and hell, I hope that if the Tea Party doesn't kill it, those Democrats that are as liberal as Dean and Kucinich will.

/Again, this isn't a compromise; it's a failure in leadership.

I think the Dems are on board to let this one go. Kucinich will vote no, but Dean isn't in Congress and never has been and there are more than enough Democrats willing to swallow their tongue and let it get to Obama's desk. It's on Boehner to allow that to happen.


Shelia Jackson Lee said Biden hasn't convinced her to vote because she's thinking about what'll happen in two months.
 
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