If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(CNN)   Will Republicans remember to come into work today? Will Nancy Pelosi bite anyone? Will John Boehner replace his gavel with a whiskey bottle? It's your "House of Representatives fiscal cliff vote" thread (House starts their session at noon today)   (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 592
    More: Interesting, a.m. ET  
•       •       •

2155 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Jan 2013 at 12:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



592 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2013-01-01 11:17:22 AM  
Another dumb question, dumb question, dumb question, "It's your!" declarative statement Fark headline, and people wonder why political discussions are treated like sports?
 
2013-01-01 11:34:14 AM  
If the House doesn't pass it by tomorrow morning, then the stock market is open and it'll spook the market.
 
2013-01-01 11:38:43 AM  

Therion: Another dumb question, dumb question, dumb question, "It's your!" declarative statement Fark headline, and people wonder why political discussions are treated like sports?


Because this is CSPAN's version of WWE and MLP:FiM.

*sigh* Will the Koch Brothers let it through, or will the Tea Party use their boomsticks to kill it?

Stupid, ignorant single-minded assholes need to be slapped repeatedly to snap out of it. It's not the black guy. It's the rich guys screwing you over.
 
2013-01-01 11:43:59 AM  
Anyone else actually hoping for more Boehner incompetence?  Kicking this thing down the road two months so the GOP can lump it into the debt ceiling and we can do that again is 15 different kinds of bad.  Biden all but guaranteed that we'll have to deal with demands for spending cuts for passing the debt ceiling.

This deal needs to die.
 
2013-01-01 11:44:09 AM  
I really wish someone could get these morons to understand that doing something is better than doing nothing.  Any partial fix is better than making the whole mess worse.  Right now is not the time to worry about getting your unicorns and rainbows, it's time to get out of the rain.

There are just too many issues in the budget to lump them all in one place and fix with one swipe.  Its going to take time, they need to accept that and fix the easy things first.   Then they can sit back and argue about how many more tanks to buy that we don't need.   Maybe prioritize the order that they tackle the issues by the order of how they impact the country/economy.

The house strikes me to be a petulant child that is breaking all of their new toys just because they didn't get that special Nerf gun that they wanted for Christmas.
 
2013-01-01 11:58:04 AM  

GAT_00: Anyone else actually hoping for more Boehner incompetence?  Kicking this thing down the road two months so the GOP can lump it into the debt ceiling and we can do that again is 15 different kinds of bad.  Biden all but guaranteed that we'll have to deal with demands for spending cuts for passing the debt ceiling.

This deal needs to dies


ah.... But who gets blamed for the cuts?  The party that ties them to the debt ceiling.  Republicans.  Between that and making a bunch of Rs vote to raise taxes (primary from the tea-tards time) the Ds have a shot at the house.  POTUS plays the long game masterfully.  As to today's bill.  It really isn't tht bad a bill and we get the farm bill through.  My kids need milk at less then $8 a gallon.
 
2013-01-01 11:58:09 AM  
I'm actually tired of this being the status quo:
thinkprogress.org
 
2013-01-01 12:00:26 PM  
Obama you suck ass.
 
2013-01-01 12:01:08 PM  
Nice to see a Catholic Priest in Congress. How lovely.
 
2013-01-01 12:01:26 PM  
Let's get ready to rumble!!!!!
 
2013-01-01 12:02:30 PM  
So, even if it passes, my taxes went up for a day? I pay at one rate for 364 days and a different rate for a day?
 
2013-01-01 12:02:30 PM  

cbuhler: I really wish someone could get these morons to understand that doing something is better than doing nothing.  Any partial fix is better than making the whole mess worse.  Right now is not the time to worry about getting your unicorns and rainbows, it's time to get out of the rain.

There are just too many issues in the budget to lump them all in one place and fix with one swipe.  Its going to take time, they need to accept that and fix the easy things first.   Then they can sit back and argue about how many more tanks to buy that we don't need.   Maybe prioritize the order that they tackle the issues by the order of how they impact the country/economy.

Very well said.
The house strikes me to be a petulant child that is breaking all of their new toys just because they didn't get that special Nerf gun that they wanted for Christmas.
 
2013-01-01 12:03:06 PM  

mayIFark: So, even if it passes, my taxes went up for a day? I pay at one rate for 364 days and a different rate for a day?


No. The tax rates will be retroactive to Jan 1.
 
2013-01-01 12:03:20 PM  

mayIFark: So, even if it passes, my taxes went up for a day? I pay at one rate for 364 days and a different rate for a day?

It'll be retro

 
2013-01-01 12:04:52 PM  

RexTalionis: If the House doesn't pass it by tomorrow morning, then the stock market is open and it'll spook the market.


Jan 2. The stock market saw its shadow forecast 12 more weeks of a groundhog market. Sell. Sell. Sell.
 
2013-01-01 12:05:29 PM  
Raises taxes only on the super-rich, but leaves the rich making $250K-$400K untouched. Thanks for sticking with your principles, spineless Democrats. You could have just run out the clock but you caved.
 
2013-01-01 12:06:31 PM  
What a depressing topic. All I can think of is to quote Digby:

Many on the left live in a fantasy in which poor and middle-class white Republicans dwell in a world of false consciousness, simply failing to understand the degree to which Republican politicians betray them and their interests. The truth is far more disturbing: the people in these districts, particularly the ones who vote in Republican primaries, know precisely what their representatives are doing and what they stand for. They like it, and continue to vote for representatives even farther to the right year after year. Half of Republicans believe ACORN (read, black government workers) stole the election for Obama. 44% of Republicans either want to secede or simply aren't sure. Self-described conservatives were 14 percentage points more likely to want to a buy a gun after the Sandy Hook massacre than not.

No matter what Obama does, Republicans won't care and won't fold.

That's what we're up against, folks. Anyone thinking the Republicans are going to be reasonable on anything is taking a sucker bet.
 
2013-01-01 12:07:21 PM  

mayIFark: So, even if it passes, my taxes went up for a day? I pay at one rate for 364 days and a different rate for a day?


Are you one of those sooper-rich CEO bastards who have already made $400,000 in the first hours of the new year?
 
2013-01-01 12:08:37 PM  

GAT_00: Anyone else actually hoping for more Boehner incompetence?  Kicking this thing down the road two months so the GOP can lump it into the debt ceiling and we can do that again is 15 different kinds of bad.  Biden all but guaranteed that we'll have to deal with demands for spending cuts for passing the debt ceiling.

This deal needs to die.


I don't often agree with GAT_00, but I do on this.
 
2013-01-01 12:09:01 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: Raises taxes only on the super-rich, but leaves the rich making $250K-$400K untouched. Thanks for sticking with your principles, spineless Democrats. You could have just run out the clock but you caved.


150k difference isn't worth it in the grand scheme. This is a decent deal.  The economy can't take more of this BS.  Compromise means you aren't entirely satisfied.  Pass the bill and tackle the remaining issues one at a time.
 
2013-01-01 12:11:12 PM  

RexTalionis: If the House doesn't pass it by tomorrow morning, then the stock market is open and it'll spook the market.


Like FDR with the banks, I think Obama can shut down all US stock markets for a while. It would be good for the 'free market' derp lulz, anyway.
 
2013-01-01 12:11:29 PM  

AntiNerd: No matter what Obama does, Republicans won't care and won't fold.

That's what we're up against, folks. Anyone thinking the Republicans are going to be reasonable on anything is taking a sucker bet.


Exactly. As the D's compromise and compromise, the R's will keep moving their baseline position farther and farther to the right. I've never seen a group of people who are as good at taking a strong bargaining position and turning it into weakness as the Democrats.
 
2013-01-01 12:13:08 PM  
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeee. fark them all. They made their bed, now let them lie in it.
 
2013-01-01 12:15:24 PM  
Lets see the cuts!
 
2013-01-01 12:15:36 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: 150k difference isn't worth it in the grand scheme. This is a decent deal. The economy can't take more of this BS. Compromise means you aren't entirely satisfied. Pass the bill and tackle the remaining issues one at a time.


I guess it's the unspoken message: "We're keeping taxes low on the middle class!" Now, pundits can argue that $250K-$400K is now suddenly part of the middle class. At 250-260 working days a year, $250K-$400K is $961-$1600 A DAY. Folks, these are not middle class tax cuts. They're tax cuts for the rich, and now Democrats have made it part of their OFFER.
 
2013-01-01 12:18:30 PM  
Who's the republican strategist on cnbc crying about all those small business owners with 400k income that will be crushed with new taxes and unable to hire new workers or expand their business?

And how goddamn stupid are these fictional small business owners that they are seemingly avoiding tax write offs related to business expansion to pay for shiat out of their personal income?
 
2013-01-01 12:20:50 PM  
My prediction:

Obama gets sensible "entitlement" and military spending cuts.
Taxes cut for the 1% will go back to reasonable rates like the 1990's.
No taxes raised on middle class.

No guns are banned in 2013.

Troll Face Fartbama wins again and the GOP cries.
 
2013-01-01 12:21:28 PM  

AntiNerd: What a depressing topic. All I can think of is to quote Digby:

Many on the left live in a fantasy in which poor and middle-class white Republicans dwell in a world of false consciousness, simply failing to understand the degree to which Republican politicians betray them and their interests. The truth is far more disturbing: the people in these districts, particularly the ones who vote in Republican primaries, know precisely what their representatives are doing and what they stand for. They like it, and continue to vote for representatives even farther to the right year after year. Half of Republicans believe ACORN (read, black government workers) stole the election for Obama. 44% of Republicans either want to secede or simply aren't sure. Self-described conservatives were 14 percentage points more likely to want to a buy a gun after the Sandy Hook massacre than not.

No matter what Obama does, Republicans won't care and won't fold.

That's what we're up against, folks. Anyone thinking the Republicans are going to be reasonable on anything is taking a sucker bet.


That FEMA camp idea of theirs is sounding almost reasonable now.  A modest proposal if you will.
 
2013-01-01 12:21:36 PM  
The deal is fine. Raise taxes on the upper end, pretend they'll cut spending later.

The Republicans better not fark this up.
 
2013-01-01 12:22:48 PM  

Therion: Another dumb question, dumb question, dumb question, "It's your!" declarative statement Fark headline, and people wonder why political discussions are treated like sports?


Somebody's grumpy this mornin'!
 
2013-01-01 12:23:27 PM  

cbuhler: I really wish someone could get these morons to understand that doing something is better than doing nothing.


...no, I think you're the moron for thinking doing something half-assed is better than doing nothing at all. And this is yet another half-assed deal that fails to address any of the problems it claims to, all in the name of "bipartisanship"...which means, of course, that we get farked in the ass by "both"sides. If you think that's better than nothing, then I have to question your sanity.
 
2013-01-01 12:23:31 PM  
Was that Issa who invoked the name of corporate America? And then talked of putting his finger in a dyke?
 
2013-01-01 12:25:08 PM  

bulldg4life: Who's the republican strategist on cnbc crying about all those small business owners with 400k income that will be crushed with new taxes and unable to hire new workers or expand their business?

And how goddamn stupid are these fictional small business owners that they are seemingly avoiding tax write offs related to business expansion to pay for shiat out of their personal income?


This strategist has no idea what he's talking about, then, because like all income taxes, only the marginal amount above $400K will be taxed at the higher rate. So you can be this mythical starving small business owner with exactly $400K in before-taxes earnings, and all of that will be taxed at the low "middle class" tax rates.
 
2013-01-01 12:25:21 PM  

TheOther: GAT_00: Anyone else actually hoping for more Boehner incompetence?  Kicking this thing down the road two months so the GOP can lump it into the debt ceiling and we can do that again is 15 different kinds of bad.  Biden all but guaranteed that we'll have to deal with demands for spending cuts for passing the debt ceiling.

This deal needs to die.

I don't often agree with GAT_00, but I do on this.


Lindsey Graham unambiguously said this agreement is something Republicans will accept because it gives them cover to turn the debt ceiling fight into WW3.

That happens all of 8 weeks from now.

The progressive caucus hates this agreement and the tea party caucus hates this agreement. I guess the "adults" will try to cobble together a +1 in the House so that we can all reconvene after the Super Bowl and do this again.
 
2013-01-01 12:25:30 PM  

GAT_00: Anyone else actually hoping for more Boehner incompetence?  Kicking this thing down the road two months so the GOP can lump it into the debt ceiling and we can do that again is 15 different kinds of bad.  Biden all but guaranteed that we'll have to deal with demands for spending cuts for passing the debt ceiling.

This deal needs to die.


Pretty much; this is one instance I hope the TP-types just kill it altogether under the delusion that Obama will yield more ground...Only for Obama to put the middle-class tax cut bill up for Congress and practically putting the gun to the TP's heads and daring them to pull the trigger.
 
2013-01-01 12:27:55 PM  

Cletus C.: The deal is fine. Raise taxes on the upper end, pretend they'll cut spending later.

The Republicans better not fark this up.


>250K is the upper end. We're talking about the upper end of the upper end at this point. And the tax increase isn't even that substantial. I'd hope to see a ~75% or so bracket way up there if we want to see real social change.
 
2013-01-01 12:28:12 PM  
The Tealiban isn't going to go for this, they can't give up their hostage.
 
2013-01-01 12:28:31 PM  
Why would Joe Biden help get this deal together with the knowledge that the debt ceiling deal is going to be more handwringing and idiocy? Is sure seems like that's an awful lot of faith that the house GOP will screw this up out of spite
 
2013-01-01 12:29:04 PM  

Mistymtnhop: Therion: Another dumb question, dumb question, dumb question, "It's your!" declarative statement Fark headline, and people wonder why political discussions are treated like sports?

Somebody's grumpy this mornin'!


Pet peeve. Those headlines annoy the heck out of me.

Why are fish? Is blagoo purple? Whence-forth the hawk and the handsaw? It's YOUR OFFICIAL 11am surrealitiy discussion!
 
2013-01-01 12:29:38 PM  

Rwa2play: Pretty much; this is one instance I hope the TP-types just kill it altogether under the delusion that Obama will yield more ground...Only for Obama to put the middle-class tax cut bill up for Congress and practically putting the gun to the TP's heads and daring them to pull the trigger.


I think Obama's counting on that happening to some degree.

And so far, so good: apparently there are going to be at least two GOP meetings before they even schedule a vote. Boehner is still looking for Republicans to lead this thing.
 
2013-01-01 12:30:16 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: stiletto_the_wise: Raises taxes only on the super-rich, but leaves the rich making $250K-$400K untouched. Thanks for sticking with your principles, spineless Democrats. You could have just run out the clock but you caved.

150k difference isn't worth it in the grand scheme. This is a decent deal.  The economy can't take more of this BS.  Compromise means you aren't entirely satisfied.  Pass the bill and tackle the remaining issues one at a time.


No. This isn't compromise. This is fail.

Under this deal, and all deals made in light of it, the deficit will go up. No doubt about it. It does nothing to address the deficit, it does nothing to address economic instability, and it does nothing to address governmental revenue and/or spending problems. In fact, I would be skeptical if this deal really actually satisfies any of the conditions of the "fiscal cliff" triggers at all, though everyone will pretend that it does.
 
2013-01-01 12:30:34 PM  

bulldg4life: Why would Joe Biden help get this deal together with the knowledge that the debt ceiling deal is going to be more handwringing and idiocy? Is sure seems like that's an awful lot of faith that the house GOP will screw this up out of spite


The House is slightly reconfigured after tomorrow, so maybe they've done the math?
 
2013-01-01 12:31:34 PM  

Gosling: Rwa2play: Pretty much; this is one instance I hope the TP-types just kill it altogether under the delusion that Obama will yield more ground...Only for Obama to put the middle-class tax cut bill up for Congress and practically putting the gun to the TP's heads and daring them to pull the trigger.

I think Obama's counting on that happening to some degree.

And so far, so good: apparently there are going to be at least two GOP meetings before they even schedule a vote. Boehner is still looking for Republicans to lead this thing.


I have a feeling the GOP's in this "We're not even giving Obama THIS much~!" mode; which is good news...for Obama.
 
2013-01-01 12:31:57 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: stiletto_the_wise: Raises taxes only on the super-rich, but leaves the rich making $250K-$400K untouched. Thanks for sticking with your principles, spineless Democrats. You could have just run out the clock but you caved.

150k difference isn't worth it in the grand scheme. This is a decent deal. The economy can't take more of this BS. Compromise means you aren't entirely satisfied. Pass the bill and tackle the remaining issues one at a time.


"Aren't entirely satisfied?" $250k IS a huge compromise in my eyes; it's off by an order of magnitude. Raise taxes down to $25k of income for a single person. The really poor wouldn't be affected at all, the lower middle class would only be affected on a small portion of their salary, which wouldn't result in much of a dollar difference, and if they can survive on it, people above it wouldn't be starving to death either.
 
2013-01-01 12:33:11 PM  

IlGreven: Waxing_Chewbacca: stiletto_the_wise: Raises taxes only on the super-rich, but leaves the rich making $250K-$400K untouched. Thanks for sticking with your principles, spineless Democrats. You could have just run out the clock but you caved.

150k difference isn't worth it in the grand scheme. This is a decent deal.  The economy can't take more of this BS.  Compromise means you aren't entirely satisfied.  Pass the bill and tackle the remaining issues one at a time.

No. This isn't compromise. This is fail.

Under this deal, and all deals made in light of it, the deficit will go up. No doubt about it. It does nothing to address the deficit, it does nothing to address economic instability, and it does nothing to address governmental revenue and/or spending problems. In fact, I would be skeptical if this deal really actually satisfies any of the conditions of the "fiscal cliff" triggers at all, though everyone will pretend that it does.


It's a load of BS, but, since they defined 'fiscal cliff' to begin with, they can redefine it any way they want. All these drama queens really care about is the spotlight.
 
2013-01-01 12:33:27 PM  
"Just cut spending" is the new "some of my best friends are.." and "I only have a problem with ILLEGAL immigrants"..
 
2013-01-01 12:35:28 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: Cletus C.: The deal is fine. Raise taxes on the upper end, pretend they'll cut spending later.

The Republicans better not fark this up.

>250K is the upper end. We're talking about the upper end of the upper end at this point. And the tax increase isn't even that substantial. I'd hope to see a ~75% or so bracket way up there if we want to see real social change.


Nah, you need to aim higher with your class envy.
 
2013-01-01 12:35:38 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-01 12:36:18 PM  

bulldg4life: Why would Joe Biden help get this deal together with the knowledge that the debt ceiling deal is going to be more handwringing and idiocy? Is sure seems like that's an awful lot of faith that the house GOP will screw this up out of spite


He claims they won't bargain on the debt ceiling, therefore that is irrelevant.  Which is really stupid.
 
2013-01-01 12:36:29 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: Exactly. As the D's compromise and compromise, the R's will keep moving their baseline position farther and farther to the right. I've never seen a group of people who are as good at taking a strong bargaining position and turning it into weakness as the Democrats.


I don't know how many times this has to be said: Nothing is official until the President signs a bill.  To this point, the Tea Party caucus in the House has scuttled every deal put before them, even by their own leadership.  If that stays true to form, Obama can offer any concessions he wants without fear of consequence.  If the Tea Party accepts the deal, Obama gets a decent bill and some grumbling from the liberal caucus.  If the Tea Party kills the deal, we officially go off the cliff and Obama can put the screws to them.  It's win-win for the Democrats.  Yes, I would like to see a better deal that doesn't involve going off the cliff, but this is politics.  Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them.  Save your outrage for whatever bill is actually signed into law, not for unofficial deals that stand a good chance of failing once they hit the House.
 
2013-01-01 12:37:37 PM  

DamnYankees: Nice to see a Catholic Priest in Congress. How lovely.


So much for that nice anti-establishment clause.

If only those gun nuts loved the first amendment as much as their second amendment.....
 
2013-01-01 12:38:27 PM  
Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but if the Teapublicans scuttle this, it could be the best possible outcome for the WH. Obama/Biden hammer out a deal that reflects actual compromise on all parties, but the House GOP kills it anyway, definitively sending us over the cliff.
 
2013-01-01 12:40:12 PM  

Mentat: stiletto_the_wise: Exactly. As the D's compromise and compromise, the R's will keep moving their baseline position farther and farther to the right. I've never seen a group of people who are as good at taking a strong bargaining position and turning it into weakness as the Democrats.

I don't know how many times this has to be said: Nothing is official until the President signs a bill.  To this point, the Tea Party caucus in the House has scuttled every deal put before them, even by their own leadership.  If that stays true to form, Obama can offer any concessions he wants without fear of consequence.  If the Tea Party accepts the deal, Obama gets a decent bill and some grumbling from the liberal caucus.  If the Tea Party kills the deal, we officially go off the cliff and Obama can put the screws to them.  It's win-win for the Democrats.  Yes, I would like to see a better deal that doesn't involve going off the cliff, but this is politics.  Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them.  Save your outrage for whatever bill is actually signed into law, not for unofficial deals that stand a good chance of failing once they hit the House.


I like the President, but he's a terrible negotiator and would never veto this agreement if it survives the House.

If he had a line in the sand he would have said so to Biden before he dispatched him to cut a deal with McConnell.
 
2013-01-01 12:41:25 PM  

Therion: Another dumb question, dumb question, dumb question, "It's your!" declarative statement Fark headline, and people wonder why political discussions are treated like sports?


Awww. Does em got a butthurt? Does em got a butthurt? Relax, Beatrice, it's a joke. You see, Boehner's an alcoholic, so it's funny to imagine a whiskey bottle in place of a gavel. In part, because it's plausible for that weepy drunk cheeto.
 
2013-01-01 12:43:15 PM  

OneBrightMonkey: I like the President, but he's a terrible negotiator and would never veto this agreement if it survives the House.

If he had a line in the sand he would have said so to Biden before he dispatched him to cut a deal with McConnell.


I've heard that Obama's apparently terrible negotiation strategy might stem from his desire to be considered the "post-partisan" President, making him more interested in failing to reach compromise than to successfully brow-beat the GOP back into the corner where they belong.
 
2013-01-01 12:44:13 PM  

Granny_Panties: Troll Face Fartbama wins again and the GOP cries.


If by wins you mean screws over working people in favor of the rich, sure.

Obama has said repeatedly he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling. Given his track record, how many people actually believe that? Exactly no one except hardcore Obamatons. The GOP will take that hostage again, extract even more damaging spending cuts and rips to the safety net, and call it a day. Sure, Obama "won" $600B in revenue but it'll cost, what, another trillion in cuts? So in the past 14 months Obama will have garnered 4:1 spending cuts to revenues ($2.5T : $0.6T). That is literally insanity, we've already slashed discretionary spending to the bone.

This country's infrastructure is falling apart, our scientific research is being starved, and millions are immiserated because there aren't enough jobs. Spending cuts are the absolute dumbest course of action imaginable.
 
2013-01-01 12:45:33 PM  

Mentat: Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them.


I wonder if this is why he trolled them in his speech last night
 
2013-01-01 12:45:37 PM  

stoli n coke: Therion: Another dumb question, dumb question, dumb question, "It's your!" declarative statement Fark headline, and people wonder why political discussions are treated like sports?

Awww. Does em got a butthurt? Does em got a butthurt? Relax, Beatrice, it's a joke. You see, Boehner's an alcoholic, so it's funny to imagine a whiskey bottle in place of a gavel. In part, because it's plausible for that weepy drunk cheeto.


Great, now I want cheetos. And a drink.
 
2013-01-01 12:46:10 PM  
Tom Cole (R-OK) is telling MSNBC that this first meeting will be partially so people have a chance to read the bill.

They haven't read it yet. Really. Really.
 
2013-01-01 12:48:03 PM  

Granny_Panties: My prediction:

Obama gets sensible "entitlement" and military spending cuts.
Taxes cut for the 1% will go back to reasonable rates like the 1990's.
No taxes raised on middle class.

No guns are banned in 2013.

Troll Face Fartbama wins again and the GOP cries.


That's what happens when a grown-up is in office instead of a frat boy and Sen. Palpantine.
 
2013-01-01 12:48:07 PM  

Rwa2play: GAT_00: Anyone else actually hoping for more Boehner incompetence?  Kicking this thing down the road two months so the GOP can lump it into the debt ceiling and we can do that again is 15 different kinds of bad.  Biden all but guaranteed that we'll have to deal with demands for spending cuts for passing the debt ceiling.

This deal needs to die.

Pretty much; this is one instance I hope the TP-types just kill it altogether under the delusion that Obama will yield more ground...Only for Obama to put the middle-class tax cut bill up for Congress and practically putting the gun to the TP's heads and daring them to pull the trigger.


THIS is how I would prefer things to turn out.

Literally.  Just.  Like.  This.
 
2013-01-01 12:48:26 PM  

Gosling: Tom Cole (R-OK) is telling MSNBC that this first meeting will be partially so people have a chance to read the bill.

They haven't read it yet. Really. Really.


I was under the impression that Congressmen rarely read bills. They have people to do that for them.
 
2013-01-01 12:48:43 PM  
My money is on boner crying like a little girl by days end.
 
2013-01-01 12:49:40 PM  
I'm finding it hard to care anymore especially with football on. At this point don't we all expect them to ruin the country?
 
2013-01-01 12:50:33 PM  

Mentat: stiletto_the_wise: Exactly. As the D's compromise and compromise, the R's will keep moving their baseline position farther and farther to the right. I've never seen a group of people who are as good at taking a strong bargaining position and turning it into weakness as the Democrats.

I don't know how many times this has to be said: Nothing is official until the President signs a bill.  To this point, the Tea Party caucus in the House has scuttled every deal put before them, even by their own leadership.  If that stays true to form, Obama can offer any concessions he wants without fear of consequence.  If the Tea Party accepts the deal, Obama gets a decent bill and some grumbling from the liberal caucus.  If the Tea Party kills the deal, we officially go off the cliff and Obama can put the screws to them.  It's win-win for the Democrats.  Yes, I would like to see a better deal that doesn't involve going off the cliff, but this is politics.  Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them.  Save your outrage for whatever bill is actually signed into law, not for unofficial deals that stand a good chance of failing once they hit the House.


...do you not see how this would backfire in the President's face if those grumbling Democrats get rowdy? Already guys like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich have savaged the deal, and hell, I hope that if the Tea Party doesn't kill it, those Democrats that are as liberal as Dean and Kucinich will.

/Again, this isn't a compromise; it's a failure in leadership.
 
2013-01-01 12:50:50 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Obama has said repeatedly he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling. Given his track record, how many people actually believe that? Exactly no one except hardcore Obamatons.


THIS. The man is incapable of standing his ground.
 
2013-01-01 12:51:26 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Granny_Panties: Troll Face Fartbama wins again and the GOP cries.

If by wins you mean screws over working people in favor of the rich, sure.

Obama has said repeatedly he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling. Given his track record, how many people actually believe that? Exactly no one except hardcore Obamatons. The GOP will take that hostage again, extract even more damaging spending cuts and rips to the safety net, and call it a day. Sure, Obama "won" $600B in revenue but it'll cost, what, another trillion in cuts? So in the past 14 months Obama will have garnered 4:1 spending cuts to revenues ($2.5T : $0.6T). That is literally insanity, we've already slashed discretionary spending to the bone.

This country's infrastructure is falling apart, our scientific research is being starved, and millions are immiserated because there aren't enough jobs. Spending cuts are the absolute dumbest course of action imaginable.


Politics 101 - What a president does in his second term is not always the same as in his first.
 
2013-01-01 12:54:26 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: mayIFark: So, even if it passes, my taxes went up for a day? I pay at one rate for 364 days and a different rate for a day?

It'll be retro


What a retro bill might look like:

www.pacatholic.org
 
2013-01-01 12:54:47 PM  

TofuTheAlmighty: Granny_Panties: Troll Face Fartbama wins again and the GOP cries.

If by wins you mean screws over working people in favor of the rich, sure.

Obama has said repeatedly he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling. Given his track record, how many people actually believe that? Exactly no one except hardcore Obamatons. The GOP will take that hostage again, extract even more damaging spending cuts and rips to the safety net, and call it a day. Sure, Obama "won" $600B in revenue but it'll cost, what, another trillion in cuts? So in the past 14 months Obama will have garnered 4:1 spending cuts to revenues ($2.5T : $0.6T). That is literally insanity, we've already slashed discretionary spending to the bone.

This country's infrastructure is falling apart, our scientific research is being starved, and millions are immiserated because there aren't enough jobs. Spending cuts are the absolute dumbest course of action imaginable.


the Democrat's payroll tax cut was a major threat to the social safety net. In the past two years, $250 billion that was supposed to go entitlements went elsewhere. if Dems had their way, that would continue for the foreseeable future.

thank goodness that nonsense was stopped.
 
2013-01-01 12:55:35 PM  
You know the tea-tards are going to shoot the hostage. This compromise will go down in flames and the stock market crashes tomorrow....or not.
 
2013-01-01 12:56:52 PM  

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Mentat: Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them.

I wonder if this is why he trolled them in his speech last night


Bachmann just fumed about the president doing just this. +1
 
2013-01-01 12:57:26 PM  

IlGreven: ...do you not see how this would backfire in the President's face if those grumbling Democrats get rowdy? Already guys like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich have savaged the deal, and hell, I hope that if the Tea Party doesn't kill it, those Democrats that are as liberal as Dean and Kucinich will.

/Again, this isn't a compromise; it's a failure in leadership.


I think the Dems are on board to let this one go. Kucinich will vote no, but Dean isn't in Congress and never has been and there are more than enough Democrats willing to swallow their tongue and let it get to Obama's desk. It's on Boehner to allow that to happen.
 
2013-01-01 12:57:34 PM  

carterjw: Waxing_Chewbacca: mayIFark: So, even if it passes, my taxes went up for a day? I pay at one rate for 364 days and a different rate for a day?

It'll be retro

What a retro bill might look like:

[www.pacatholic.org image 200x201]


Tax legislation cannot be retroactive.

/PITA
 
2013-01-01 01:01:35 PM  
This is how stupid the Republican party is, they think waiting a day magically turns "tax increases" into "tax cuts".

It's a party that caters to idiots. If you vote for these people you are an idiot.
 
2013-01-01 01:02:49 PM  
GOP offered $800 billion in new revenue through "tax reform", instead of rate increases, to happen at a later date (unlikely)

Obama wanted $800 billion through "tax reform" and another $800 billion through rate increases. the rate increse would be immediate, with unlikely tax reform later.

Obama got $600 billion in automatic rate increases.

and somehow, to the liberal, he's the worst negotiator ever.
 
2013-01-01 01:03:42 PM  

rohar: Tax legislation cannot be retroactive.


yes, it can.

It is now. it's 2013 now. Also they are fixing the 2012 AMT in the the bill. That's retroactive.
 
2013-01-01 01:04:34 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: stiletto_the_wise: Raises taxes only on the super-rich, but leaves the rich making $250K-$400K untouched. Thanks for sticking with your principles, spineless Democrats. You could have just run out the clock but you caved.

150k difference isn't worth it in the grand scheme. This is a decent deal.  The economy can't take more of this BS.  Compromise means you aren't entirely satisfied.  Pass the bill and tackle the remaining issues one at a time.


It's a decent deal in a vacuum. It's a horrible deal when you realize there's a debt cieling fight coming in two months in which the Democrats now have zero leverage and the GOP once again knows Obama will always fold. Any gain made in this deal will simply be lost in March.
 
2013-01-01 01:06:42 PM  

rohar: Tax legislation cannot be retroactive.


So you are trying to tell us this bill is for 2014?

/hint: it's not. it will change 2013 and even 2012 tax code. That is retroactive.
 
2013-01-01 01:06:43 PM  

GAT_00: Anyone else actually hoping for more Boehner incompetence?  Kicking this thing down the road two months so the GOP can lump it into the debt ceiling and we can do that again is 15 different kinds of bad.  Biden all but guaranteed that we'll have to deal with demands for spending cuts for passing the debt ceiling.

This deal needs to die.


I was thinking the same thing.
 
2013-01-01 01:08:36 PM  
Aaannnd republicans and republicanism shiatting on Americas chest in ...3 ...2 ...1

Seriously, you people are the problem with America. All you need to to figure out the GOP position on any given issue is to close your eyes and imagine "hmmm how would Sauron approach this", and you can be sure that's the choice they make. I swear, it literally works for everything.

Bunch of pants shiatting cowards.
 
2013-01-01 01:09:42 PM  

Mentat: I don't know how many times this has to be said: Nothing is official until the President signs a bill. To this point, the Tea Party caucus in the House has scuttled every deal put before them, even by their own leadership. If that stays true to form, Obama can offer any concessions he wants without fear of consequence. If the Tea Party accepts the deal, Obama gets a decent bill and some grumbling from the liberal caucus. If the Tea Party kills the deal, we officially go off the cliff and Obama can put the screws to them. It's win-win for the Democrats. Yes, I would like to see a better deal that doesn't involve going off the cliff, but this is politics. Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them. Save your outrage for whatever bill is actually signed into law, not for unofficial deals that stand a good chance of failing once they hit the House.


You're right. It's possible that the Dems put this "reasonable compromise" together, knowing full well (and hoping) that the Tea Partiers will reject it. Not sure I'd believe they had the brains for a move like that, but we'll see.

I like the poker analogies. The White House thinks they have the highest hand, and they're putting out an information bet to see what the other side has.
 
2013-01-01 01:12:39 PM  

Bontesla: GAT_00: Anyone else actually hoping for more Boehner incompetence?  Kicking this thing down the road two months so the GOP can lump it into the debt ceiling and we can do that again is 15 different kinds of bad.  Biden all but guaranteed that we'll have to deal with demands for spending cuts for passing the debt ceiling.

This deal needs to die.

I was thinking the same thing.


Just trading one hostage for another.
 
2013-01-01 01:13:43 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: You're right. It's possible that the Dems put this "reasonable compromise" together, knowing full well (and hoping) that the Tea Partiers will reject it. Not sure I'd believe they had the brains for a move like that, but we'll see.


But they don't need lots of GOP votes, the only need some. That's why this whole thing is BS. They could get a much better deal like the bill passed by the senate but Bohener won't let them up for a vote.
 
2013-01-01 01:15:01 PM  

DamnYankees: It's a decent deal in a vacuum. It's a horrible deal when you realize there's a debt cieling fight coming in two months in which the Democrats now have zero leverage and the GOP once again knows Obama will always fold. Any gain made in this deal will simply be lost in March.


It's only a horrible deal if it in fact turns out to be a deal. You're thinking that somehow the GOP has decided to start taking yes for an answer.
 
2013-01-01 01:16:18 PM  

Gosling: DamnYankees: It's a decent deal in a vacuum. It's a horrible deal when you realize there's a debt cieling fight coming in two months in which the Democrats now have zero leverage and the GOP once again knows Obama will always fold. Any gain made in this deal will simply be lost in March.

It's only a horrible deal if it in fact turns out to be a deal. You're thinking that somehow the GOP has decided to start taking yes for an answer.


They don't need to. If Pelosi signed off on this, there's no way this won't pass. All Boehner needs to do it break the Hastert Rule, which is barely even a rule.
 
2013-01-01 01:16:27 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: Mentat: I don't know how many times this has to be said: Nothing is official until the President signs a bill. To this point, the Tea Party caucus in the House has scuttled every deal put before them, even by their own leadership. If that stays true to form, Obama can offer any concessions he wants without fear of consequence. If the Tea Party accepts the deal, Obama gets a decent bill and some grumbling from the liberal caucus. If the Tea Party kills the deal, we officially go off the cliff and Obama can put the screws to them. It's win-win for the Democrats. Yes, I would like to see a better deal that doesn't involve going off the cliff, but this is politics. Comparing this mess to the health care debacle and it's clear that Obama has learned something about dealing with the Tea Party and how to turn their own rage against them. Save your outrage for whatever bill is actually signed into law, not for unofficial deals that stand a good chance of failing once they hit the House.

You're right. It's possible that the Dems put this "reasonable compromise" together, knowing full well (and hoping) that the Tea Partiers will reject it. Not sure I'd believe they had the brains for a move like that, but we'll see.

I like the poker analogies. The White House thinks they have the highest hand, and they're putting out an information bet to see what the other side has.


Either Boehner can't count so he can't tell them what he has or he can count and knows he doesn't have the votes.. That is why FTFA: any decision about a House vote on the fiscal cliff measure will come after a second GOP meeting later this afternoon is necessary.
 
2013-01-01 01:18:42 PM  

IlGreven: ...do you not see how this would backfire in the President's face if those grumbling Democrats get rowdy? Already guys like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich have savaged the deal, and hell, I hope that if the Tea Party doesn't kill it, those Democrats that are as liberal as Dean and Kucinich will.


Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich aren't Congressmen and they were never exactly the darlings of the Party leadership anyway.  So far, the Democrats in Congress have been far more united than the Congressional Republicans.  It's far more likely that the GOP will crack before the Dems do.
 
2013-01-01 01:19:12 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: TofuTheAlmighty: Obama has said repeatedly he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling. Given his track record, how many people actually believe that? Exactly no one except hardcore Obamatons.

THIS. The man is incapable of standing his ground.


Do you remember the Republican farkers that suggested liberals were incapable of thinking ill against the messiah Obama?

I'd like to invite them to this thread for a kick in the nuts.
 
2013-01-01 01:20:14 PM  
Is anyone watching the House live stream? ( Link )

Instead of dealing with the fiscal cliff legislation, the republicans have dropped a random, un-discussed bill to further freeze the pay of federal workers. Now they are talking about naming a post offices.

CAN WE GET ON WITH IT !!111!11
 
2013-01-01 01:20:18 PM  

dumbobruni: GOP offered $800 billion in new revenue through "tax reform", instead of rate increases, to happen at a later date (unlikely)

Obama wanted $800 billion through "tax reform" and another $800 billion through rate increases. the rate increse would be immediate, with unlikely tax reform later.

Obama got $600 billion in automatic rate increases.

and somehow, to the liberal, he's the worst negotiator ever.


Who gives a shiat what the GOP was offering? They had no leverage in the negotiation, short of what Obama simply pretended they had. His (and your) insistence that the GOP should expect to get a single thing out of this is what makes him the worst negotiator ever.

The "deal" was simple: Go over the cliff, and then the dems introduce bills to cut taxes on the bottom 98%. The GOP is left either having to vote for dem bills or go into midterms with a track-record of shutting down tax-cuts on their constituents out of sheer stubbornness. The GOP has never once offered a single thing that is better than that scenario. Yet here we are.

Obama should have been flogging them with that scenario from day-1, and demanded an immediate lay-down on debt-ceiling raises, pending appointments, gay-rights, and filibuster reform even before the GOP is allowed to come to the table to discuss what else they were going to give up in order to get Obama to get them out of this mess. Now we get barely anything, and the debt-ceiling fight is coming up so Obama can give away everything else in the name of "compromise" while the GOP continues to block anything and everything.
 
2013-01-01 01:20:51 PM  

OneBrightMonkey: I like the President, but he's a terrible negotiator and would never veto this agreement if it survives the House.


The President forced the GOP to agree to tax increases on the wealthy, an increase in the capital gains tax, and an increase in the estate tax, and you think he's a terrible negotiator?  Ok.
 
2013-01-01 01:21:17 PM  

IlGreven: ...do you not see how this would backfire in the President's face if those grumbling Democrats get rowdy? Already guys like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich have savaged the deal, and hell, I hope that if the Tea Party doesn't kill it, those Democrats that are as liberal as Dean and Kucinich will.


And what do Dean and Kucinich have in common right now?

Neither of them got elected in November.
 
2013-01-01 01:22:06 PM  

Mentat: OneBrightMonkey: I like the President, but he's a terrible negotiator and would never veto this agreement if it survives the House.

The President forced the GOP to agree to tax increases on the wealthy, an increase in the capital gains tax, and an increase in the estate tax, and you think he's a terrible negotiator?  Ok.


When all that stuff is literally worse than doing nothing? Yes, he's a terrible negotiator.
 
2013-01-01 01:22:31 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Who gives a shiat what the GOP was offering? They had no leverage in the negotiation, short of what Obama simply pretended they had. His (and your) insistence that the GOP should expect to get a single thing out of this is what makes him the worst negotiator ever.


You remind me of the guys on Pawn Stars who insist that their velvet Elvis is worth $5000 and then are shocked when Rick offers them $50.
 
2013-01-01 01:22:39 PM  

DamnYankees: They don't need to. If Pelosi signed off on this, there's no way this won't pass. All Boehner needs to do it break the Hastert Rule, which is barely even a rule.


Which is BS. We could have fixed this long ago, if they let everyone bring bills to the floor.

Congress needs to change so both the minority and the majority party can bring bills for a vote. That is the only way that compromise can be forced. Logically if either party could bring bills for a vote then we would get more bi-partisan bills. If only the majority of the majority can bring bills then it means you will get very partisan legislation.
 
2013-01-01 01:22:56 PM  

dumbobruni: GOP offered $800 billion in new revenue through "tax reform", instead of rate increases, to happen at a later date (unlikely)

Obama wanted $800 billion through "tax reform" and another $800 billion through rate increases. the rate increse would be immediate, with unlikely tax reform later.

Obama got $600 billion in automatic rate increases.

and somehow, to the liberal, he's the worst negotiator ever.


It's because Obamas track record. They wish he would be inflexible as a tea partier. There is a strength in no compromises, not even in the face of Armagedon.

Call them obstructionist- but they have been affecting GOP strategy.
 
2013-01-01 01:23:10 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Obama should have been flogging them with that scenario from day-1, and demanded an immediate lay-down on debt-ceiling raises, pending appointments, gay-rights, and filibuster reform even before the GOP is allowed to come to the table to discuss what else they were going to give up in order to get Obama to get them out of this mess. Now we get barely anything, and the debt-ceiling fight is coming up so Obama can give away everything else in the name of "compromise" while the GOP continues to block anything and everything.


Maybe, JUST MAYBE, Obama believes there should be some cuts, like most reasonable people do, to things beyond the military.

Or you can impose your ideology on him and then berate him for not living up to it. Go with that.
 
2013-01-01 01:23:58 PM  

saintstryfe: Maybe, JUST MAYBE, Obama believes there should be some cuts, like most reasonable people do, to things beyond the military.


Then why did he just agree to a deal with no cuts?
 
2013-01-01 01:24:16 PM  

DamnYankees: When all that stuff is literally worse than doing nothing? Yes, he's a terrible negotiator.


Again, NOTHING IS OFFICIAL UNTIL THE PRESIDENT SIGNS THE BILL.  There is literally no risk to the President to compromise with the GOP if he believes the Tea Party will scuttle the deal and take us off the cliff anyway.
 
2013-01-01 01:25:30 PM  

Gosling: IlGreven: ...do you not see how this would backfire in the President's face if those grumbling Democrats get rowdy? Already guys like Howard Dean and Dennis Kucinich have savaged the deal, and hell, I hope that if the Tea Party doesn't kill it, those Democrats that are as liberal as Dean and Kucinich will.

/Again, this isn't a compromise; it's a failure in leadership.

I think the Dems are on board to let this one go. Kucinich will vote no, but Dean isn't in Congress and never has been and there are more than enough Democrats willing to swallow their tongue and let it get to Obama's desk. It's on Boehner to allow that to happen.


Shelia Jackson Lee said Biden hasn't convinced her to vote because she's thinking about what'll happen in two months.
 
2013-01-01 01:25:59 PM  

Mentat: DamnYankees: When all that stuff is literally worse than doing nothing? Yes, he's a terrible negotiator.

Again, NOTHING IS OFFICIAL UNTIL THE PRESIDENT SIGNS THE BILL.  There is literally no risk to the President to compromise with the GOP if he believes the Tea Party will scuttle the deal and take us off the cliff anyway.


My argument is obviously dependent on Obama signing this bill.
 
2013-01-01 01:26:28 PM  

Corvus: This is how stupid the Republican party is, they think waiting a day magically turns "tax increases" into "tax cuts".

It's a party that caters to idiots. If you vote for these people you are an idiot.


They've got almost two whole years to hammer home the lie that Obama refused to negotiate with them and unilaterally raised taxes, but the brave tea party stood up to him and lowered those taxes, forcing him to sign an extension of the bush tax cuts.

The low information talk radio/fox news voter will believe anything.
 
2013-01-01 01:26:51 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Obama should have been flogging them with that scenario from day-1,


Remember when Obama criticizes any Republican they get upset and threaten to throw the US down the tubes to just to spite Obama. They just did this yesterday threatening not to make a deal because Obama upset them because he criticized them. Because Republicans have NEVER criticized Obama.

They are children and it amazes me that the people are afraid to point it out.
 
2013-01-01 01:27:14 PM  

Mentat: You remind me of the guys on Pawn Stars who insist that their velvet Elvis is worth $5000 and then are shocked when Rick offers them $50.


You remind me of the guy who takes the offer and then does a quick interview on the street: "Yeah I was really hoping to get $5K for that, but I got $50 so that's money in my pocket. I'm a great negotiator!"

saintstryfe: Maybe, JUST MAYBE, Obama believes there should be some cuts, like most reasonable people do, to things beyond the military.

Or you can impose your ideology on him and then berate him for not living up to it. Go with that.


Great. Let him craft some bills to cut spending when and where he wants to cut, and put those up for a vote. I will continue to berate him for not living up to my ideology of "the President shouldn't be the absolute worst negotiator in the room", thanks.
 
2013-01-01 01:28:02 PM  

bharrisuc: Is anyone watching the House live stream? ( Link )

Instead of dealing with the fiscal cliff legislation, the republicans have dropped a random, un-discussed bill to further freeze the pay of federal workers. Now they are talking about naming a post offices.

CAN WE GET ON WITH IT !!111!11


Boehner doesn't have the votes, and he's apparently unwilling to risk his speakership by violating the Hastert Rule.

So, it's pretty much over. The TeaTards are now officially ion charge of the GOP.
 
2013-01-01 01:29:08 PM  

bharrisuc: Is anyone watching the House live stream? ( Link )

Instead of dealing with the fiscal cliff legislation, the republicans have dropped a random, un-discussed bill to further freeze the pay of federal workers. Now they are talking about naming a post offices.

CAN WE GET ON WITH IT !!111!11


Are you serious?
 
2013-01-01 01:30:11 PM  

Corvus: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Obama should have been flogging them with that scenario from day-1,

Remember when Obama criticizes any Republican they get upset and threaten to throw the US down the tubes to just to spite Obama. They just did this yesterday threatening not to make a deal because Obama upset them because he criticized them. Because Republicans have NEVER criticized Obama.

They are children and it amazes me that the people are afraid to point it out.


Which effectively takes their economic terrorism out of the equation. They'll do it no matter what, so Obama should just play hardball and be a total bastard to them. They're going to do it again when the debt-ceiling comes back to haunt us; another chance for Obama to piss away Social Security, Medicare, or anything else the GOP wants. We need a President who is not afraid of the inevitable shiat storm the GOP kicks up every time the President opens his mouth.
 
2013-01-01 01:31:03 PM  

DamnYankees: My argument is obviously dependent on Obama signing this bill.


And since he hasn't signed a bill, your argument is invalid.  If he's positioning himself for another Tea Party revolt, then he's obviously not a bad negotiator.  But even if the bill does pass and he signs it, he forced a GOP contaminated by Tea Party ideas to agree to tax increases.  Again, it's hard to call him a bad negotiator considering that most people would have considered that impossible just two years ago.

I understand why people are concerned about this.  During the health care debate, Obama WAS a bad negotiator because he believed the GOP would negotiate in good faith.  He clearly no longer believes that.  But until a bill actually hits his desk, it's all moot.
 
2013-01-01 01:32:00 PM  

Mentat: And since he hasn't signed a bill, your argument is invalid.


And so is yours. You posted upthread defending this deal. Don't do that until Obama signs it, by your own logic.
 
2013-01-01 01:32:12 PM  

DamnYankees: saintstryfe: Maybe, JUST MAYBE, Obama believes there should be some cuts, like most reasonable people do, to things beyond the military.

Then why did he just agree to a deal with no cuts?


Maybe because today shouldn't be a day for dealing with far-reaching fiscal policy, but instead to just fix this whole taxing-the-middle-class thing?
 
2013-01-01 01:33:19 PM  
The Democrats should all vote "present" and let the Republicans take full responsibility. It would be hilarious.
 
2013-01-01 01:34:15 PM  
Passed 89-8, with almost all Republican Senators on board, will the House Republicans follow suite or will they just blow it by either all voting "no" or adding some stupid shait, like the repeal Obamacare, onto the bill so it dies when it goes back to the Senate and say "It's not our fault it didn't' pass".
 
2013-01-01 01:34:19 PM  

saintstryfe: Maybe because today shouldn't be a day for dealing with far-reaching fiscal policy, but instead to just fix this whole taxing-the-middle-class thing?


In other words, you're making exactly our point. He gave up his leverage. By using this deal to just deal with the taxes, he took away the one piece of leverage he had over the GOP. When they now negotiate over spending in March, he has absolutely nothing to hit the GOP with.
 
2013-01-01 01:35:54 PM  

DamnYankees: saintstryfe: Maybe because today shouldn't be a day for dealing with far-reaching fiscal policy, but instead to just fix this whole taxing-the-middle-class thing?

In other words, you're making exactly our point. He gave up his leverage. By using this deal to just deal with the taxes, he took away the one piece of leverage he had over the GOP. When they now negotiate over spending in March, he has absolutely nothing to hit the GOP with.


Sure he does. He has the military cuts. The GOP doesn't want the military cuts.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-01-01 01:36:10 PM  
farm9.staticflickr.com

Dumbest, most idiotic, biggest bullshiater, worst Speaker ever.
 
2013-01-01 01:36:24 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: dumbobruni: GOP offered $800 billion in new revenue through "tax reform", instead of rate increases, to happen at a later date (unlikely)

Obama wanted $800 billion through "tax reform" and another $800 billion through rate increases. the rate increse would be immediate, with unlikely tax reform later.

Obama got $600 billion in automatic rate increases.

and somehow, to the liberal, he's the worst negotiator ever.

Who gives a shiat what the GOP was offering? They had no leverage in the negotiation, short of what Obama simply pretended they had. His (and your) insistence that the GOP should expect to get a single thing out of this is what makes him the worst negotiator ever.

The "deal" was simple: Go over the cliff, and then the dems introduce bills to cut taxes on the bottom 98%. The GOP is left either having to vote for dem bills or go into midterms with a track-record of shutting down tax-cuts on their constituents out of sheer stubbornness. The GOP has never once offered a single thing that is better than that scenario. Yet here we are.

Obama should have been flogging them with that scenario from day-1, and demanded an immediate lay-down on debt-ceiling raises, pending appointments, gay-rights, and filibuster reform even before the GOP is allowed to come to the table to discuss what else they were going to give up in order to get Obama to get them out of this mess. Now we get barely anything, and the debt-ceiling fight is coming up so Obama can give away everything else in the name of "compromise" while the GOP continues to block anything and everything.


in other news, the House of Representatives has no significance, and filibusters don't exist in the Senate.

Obama wasn't just negotiating with a weakened GOP, but also with his own party, which couldn't muster up the balls to do raise taxes on the wealthy in 2010.

Several Democrat Senators, led by Schumer, wanted the threshold at $1 million (as recently as this fall this was a talking point)
 
2013-01-01 01:38:01 PM  
At this point, the least self damaging thing the GOP can do is make a deal.
 
2013-01-01 01:38:50 PM  

Corvus: DamnYankees: saintstryfe: Maybe because today shouldn't be a day for dealing with far-reaching fiscal policy, but instead to just fix this whole taxing-the-middle-class thing?

In other words, you're making exactly our point. He gave up his leverage. By using this deal to just deal with the taxes, he took away the one piece of leverage he had over the GOP. When they now negotiate over spending in March, he has absolutely nothing to hit the GOP with.

Sure he does. He has the military cuts. The GOP doesn't want the military cuts.


That's true. I should have said he gave up almost all his leverage for basically nothing. He has as tiny bit.
 
2013-01-01 01:39:00 PM  

OneBrightMonkey: I like the President, but he's a terrible negotiator


Agreed. I think his problem is that he sees compromise and bipartisanship as ends in themselves, rather than means to an end. He really thinks a shiatty but bipartisan deal is better than a good deal extracted with thumb-screws.
 
2013-01-01 01:39:04 PM  

dumbobruni: in other news, the House of Representatives has no significance, and filibusters don't exist in the Senate.


Explain how the House or Senate, using filibusters or not using them, could stop the fiscal cliff from being enacted today, or stop the Dems from flogging the GOP with bills to cut taxes on the bottom 98% afterward. Be specific.
 
2013-01-01 01:41:23 PM  

neongoats: Aaannnd republicans and republicanism shiatting on Americas chest in ...3 ...2 ...1


That's called a Cleveland Steamer!

/Ask your Mom about it.
 
2013-01-01 01:42:06 PM  
What I think is total bullshiat are these "poison pills" congress seems to need to pass in order to threaten them into doing their job. Whether it is the farm bill, debt limit, or this stupid ass "fiscal cliff"; it is us who have to face the worse of the consequences. Not those goobers in congress or the ultra-wealthy who basically own them. I would like to see some law passed to where any "poison pill" legislation designed to force them to do their jobs should only have direct consequences on them. Instead of tanking the economy for everyone, how about the consequences be they lose their right to run for re-election as well as any congressional seat in the future and a forfeiture of their congressional pension. Since this fiasco is basically due to their incompetence at doing their jobs, and if they can't do it all of them should be fired. Get them out of there and bring in people who actually have the guts to make the decisions they were elected to make.
 
2013-01-01 01:42:25 PM  

DamnYankees: Corvus: DamnYankees: saintstryfe: Maybe because today shouldn't be a day for dealing with far-reaching fiscal policy, but instead to just fix this whole taxing-the-middle-class thing?

In other words, you're making exactly our point. He gave up his leverage. By using this deal to just deal with the taxes, he took away the one piece of leverage he had over the GOP. When they now negotiate over spending in March, he has absolutely nothing to hit the GOP with.

Sure he does. He has the military cuts. The GOP doesn't want the military cuts.

That's true. I should have said he gave up almost all his leverage for basically nothing. He has as tiny bit.


I think it's more than you think. Remember those happen if he does nothing, which is a lot easier than doing something.

What is going to be great is all these Republicans voting for this bill now in 2014 will be attacked by tea party candidates as "They raised our taxes!!!!".

Many Republicans might lose their seats because they voted for this.
 
2013-01-01 01:43:57 PM  

Corvus: Many Republicans might lose their seats because they voted for this.


IF this is true, they will merely lose them to even more conservative republicans. I don't know how that's good.
 
2013-01-01 01:45:32 PM  

DamnYankees: Corvus: Many Republicans might lose their seats because they voted for this.

IF this is true, they will merely lose them to even more conservative republicans. I don't know how that's good.


No, they'll lose their primaries to more conservative Republicans.  Barring an anomalous 2010, that strategy hasn't worked very well for them.
 
2013-01-01 01:47:59 PM  

Kumana Wanalaia: At this point, the least self damaging thing the GOP can do is make a deal.


Which means they'll do the complete opposite, just because.
 
2013-01-01 01:48:01 PM  

heavymetal: What I think is total bullshiat are these "poison pills" congress seems to need to pass in order to threaten them into doing their job. Whether it is the farm bill, debt limit, or this stupid ass "fiscal cliff"; it is us who have to face the worse of the consequences. Not those goobers in congress or the ultra-wealthy who basically own them. I would like to see some law passed to where any "poison pill" legislation designed to force them to do their jobs should only have direct consequences on them. Instead of tanking the economy for everyone, how about the consequences be they lose their right to run for re-election as well as any congressional seat in the future and a forfeiture of their congressional pension. Since this fiasco is basically due to their incompetence at doing their jobs, and if they can't do it all of them should be fired. Get them out of there and bring in people who actually have the guts to make the decisions they were elected to make.


What amusing is the GOP really did it to themselves. They forced themselves into voting to raise taxes because they put a gun to their own heads. They were so focused on screwing over Obama and Democrats they didn't realize they were forcing themselves in a worse position.

I mean yeah some Democrats in here are mad at Obama for "caving in" (as we see in this thread), but the teatards are going to go ballistic that the Republicans voted for "Obama's tax increase".

It's like if they would have voted for "Obamacare". They might go off the deep end call for the heads of the Republicans who voted for this bill.
 
2013-01-01 01:49:17 PM  
I'm just not that worried one way or the other.

I'll barely be affected in anyway no matter what deal passes.
 
2013-01-01 01:50:11 PM  

DamnYankees: Corvus: Many Republicans might lose their seats because they voted for this.

IF this is true, they will merely lose them to even more conservative republicans. I don't know how that's good.


Yep, the ones who have been losing races across the country. Sure not all will lose because of the gerrymandered districts but some will. Besides if their district is very gerrymandered they already have a ultra conservative republican in that seat,
 
2013-01-01 01:50:34 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: dumbobruni: in other news, the House of Representatives has no significance, and filibusters don't exist in the Senate.

Explain how the House or Senate, using filibusters or not using them, could stop the fiscal cliff from being enacted today, or stop the Dems from flogging the GOP with bills to cut taxes on the bottom 98% afterward. Be specific.


how many democrat-led bills and appointments were successfully stopped dead in the Senate? hundreds. many of them bipartisan and popular.

the house could refuse to take up the vote from the Senate, like they did last night. or vote present.

the GOP has shown stubborn indifference to popular opinion. and thanks to gerrymandering, they can easily maintain control no matter how unpopular they become.

Explain how 2 million Americans would be able to make ends meet when their unemployment insurance goes away today.
 
2013-01-01 01:52:52 PM  

Corvus: I mean yeah some Democrats in here are mad at Obama for "caving in" (as we see in this thread), but the teatards are going to go ballistic that the Republicans voted for "Obama's tax increase".


I liked the tactic the GOP was espousing yesterday.

"We'll go off the cliff, let taxes go up for a few hours, vote for the agreement and claim we cut taxes back to the same level they were at before the cliff!  No one will see through our cunning ruse!"
 
2013-01-01 01:54:38 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: dumbobruni: in other news, the House of Representatives has no significance, and filibusters don't exist in the Senate.

Explain how the House or Senate, using filibusters or not using them, could stop the fiscal cliff from being enacted today, or stop the Dems from flogging the GOP with bills to cut taxes on the bottom 98% afterward. Be specific.


The problem is Obama I think actually cares more about the American people than to make political gain. You seem to consider that a weakness.
 
2013-01-01 01:54:55 PM  

dumbobruni: the GOP has shown stubborn indifference to popular opinion. and thanks to gerrymandering, they can easily maintain control no matter how unpopular they become.


I think this pisses me off more than anything. WHY IS THIS OK!?!? Why are they allowed to do this?! I thought gerrymandering was illegal.
 
2013-01-01 01:55:29 PM  

tudorgurl: dumbobruni: the GOP has shown stubborn indifference to popular opinion. and thanks to gerrymandering, they can easily maintain control no matter how unpopular they become.

I think this pisses me off more than anything. WHY IS THIS OK!?!? Why are they allowed to do this?! I thought gerrymandering was illegal.


Why would you think its illegal.
 
2013-01-01 01:55:51 PM  

Corvus: DamnYankees: Corvus: Many Republicans might lose their seats because they voted for this.

IF this is true, they will merely lose them to even more conservative republicans. I don't know how that's good.

Yep, the ones who have been losing races across the country. Sure not all will lose because of the gerrymandered districts but some will. Besides if their district is very gerrymandered they already have a ultra conservative republican in that seat,


Here in Washington State we just created 2 new districts that were supposed to be competitive for Republicans, and it turned out to be not even close because TeaTards won the primaries. They're at maximum derp, and they'll continue to lose seats until they get their heads out of their asses.
 
2013-01-01 01:55:53 PM  

Mentat: Corvus: I mean yeah some Democrats in here are mad at Obama for "caving in" (as we see in this thread), but the teatards are going to go ballistic that the Republicans voted for "Obama's tax increase".

I liked the tactic the GOP was espousing yesterday.

"We'll go off the cliff, let taxes go up for a few hours, vote for the agreement and claim we cut taxes back to the same level they were at before the cliff!  No one will see through our cunning ruse!"


I can't wait until the call this bill both "Republican tax cuts" and "Obama tax increases". They will I know it.
 
2013-01-01 01:56:34 PM  
According to Rep Emanuel Cleaver- before meeting with Joe Biden today - the sentiment was 7-2 in favor of the bill. After the meeting, he said Biden convinced at least one more.

So that's two reports that show Democrats with an icy reception.
 
2013-01-01 01:57:18 PM  

Bontesla: According to Rep Emanuel Cleaver- before meeting with Joe Biden today - the sentiment was 7-2 in favor of the bill. After the meeting, he said Biden convinced at least one more.

So that's two reports that show Democrats with an icy reception.


How is that icy? 8-1 in favor is overwhelming.
 
2013-01-01 01:58:20 PM  
Well, if President Obama essentially negotiated this bill knowing that it would fail in the House so that he could get his 250K cutoff limit anyway, I take back my annoyance at his seeming ability to negotiate against himself.
 
2013-01-01 01:58:45 PM  

JolobinSmokin: I'm just not that worried one way or the other.
I'll barely be affected in anyway no matter what deal passes.


I'm only watching this to see if I'm going to have a job this summer. You know, everybody was freaking out about defense contractors losing their jobs--highly trained, highly paid professionals who can probably find another (well-paying) job. Meanwhile, seasonal government workers--a lot of students and poor people who work two or three jobs in a year--will probably not be hired this year because of funding hold-ups, just like they weren't a few years back, when another budget battle was going on.

Never heard a word about that, though, did you? I did, because my job was never funded and I was unemployed during the only time of the year when I make enough money to get by. Is it going to happen again? Nobody knows, because first there's this battle, then the debt ceiling coming up, before anyone even knows if they will get their money for the year. But who gives a fark? It's just people who depend on those seasonal jobs to get by or pay their college tuition, that's all. But cut those jobs, cut unemployment, cut social services, and hey, take out another loan if you can't afford college. You can always pay it back later with the super job you're going to get from our booming economy.

/fark it, I'm going on welfare. I'll probably make more money being a leech. We don't really need national parks or public lands, anyway.
//"Government jobs--they're a sure thing. Just get in with the feds--you're set. You'll be rehired year after year."
 
2013-01-01 01:59:02 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: Raises taxes only on the super-rich, but leaves the rich making $250K-$400K untouched. Thanks for sticking with your principles, spineless Democrats. You could have just run out the clock but you caved.


that's why the GOP never compromises. the know the Dems will.
 
2013-01-01 01:59:59 PM  

tudorgurl: dumbobruni: the GOP has shown stubborn indifference to popular opinion. and thanks to gerrymandering, they can easily maintain control no matter how unpopular they become.

I think this pisses me off more than anything. WHY IS THIS OK!?!? Why are they allowed to do this?! I thought gerrymandering was illegal.


Nominally, gerrymandering is a method of allowing a minority to have a voice - if you have 51% of a state lean left and 49% lean right, it's "better" to gerrymandered and ensure a proper representation.

Also remember that many political splits are geographical, and gerrymandering can enable geographical regions that would otherwise not have a voice to provide representatives. Again, nominally.
 
2013-01-01 02:00:10 PM  
And to prove my point that those on the right hate that the GOP is voting for this, look at this thread.

How many of the right wing derp squad are in this thread? almost none.

When they are really pissed the hide, just like on election night.
 
2013-01-01 02:02:27 PM  
Does this deal create a new tax bracket? I THOUGHT the highest bracket started at 200/250, but there's now that one and the 400/450 one? In the long game, that actually could be advantageous, you've now split up the top 2% into more rational brackets.
 
2013-01-01 02:03:30 PM  

DamnYankees: tudorgurl: dumbobruni: the GOP has shown stubborn indifference to popular opinion. and thanks to gerrymandering, they can easily maintain control no matter how unpopular they become.

I think this pisses me off more than anything. WHY IS THIS OK!?!? Why are they allowed to do this?! I thought gerrymandering was illegal.

Why would you think its illegal.


I don't know...

sprawl15: Nominally, gerrymandering is a method of allowing a minority to have a voice - if you have 51% of a state lean left and 49% lean right, it's "better" to gerrymandered and ensure a proper representation.

Also remember that many political splits are geographical, and gerrymandering can enable geographical regions that would otherwise not have a voice to provide representatives. Again, nominally.



I totally get that. I guess the only gerrymandering I've seen is here in Texas, where the crazy-ass Lege has gerrymandered the state so badly that a Democrat has about a 2% chance of getting elected to anything anymore. It's disgusting.
 
2013-01-01 02:05:02 PM  

uksocal: Does this deal create a new tax bracket? I THOUGHT the highest bracket started at 200/250, but there's now that one and the 400/450 one? In the long game, that actually could be advantageous, you've now split up the top 2% into more rational brackets.


Yes, it does.
 
2013-01-01 02:05:22 PM  
$330B in new spending.  this will ensure a newer, deeper fiscal cliff in our future.
 
2013-01-01 02:05:41 PM  
UPDATE: 12:21 PM - Today
Republicans Delay Fiscal Cliff Deal Vote

In a sign that the fiscal cliff deal could face an uncertain future in the House, Republican leaders delayed their planned vote on the measure and were expected to meet twice before going to the floor of the House in the late afternoon or evening.

If the House amends the bill passed by the Senate early this morning, or worse, offers a whole new bill, it could throw the seeming certainty achieved by the Senate out the window. Many observers had seen the strong bipartisan vote in the Senate -- including such conservatives as former Club For Growth head Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) -- as an encouraging sign that Tea Party House members could also hold their noses and go along.

-- Mike McAuliff

Source
 
2013-01-01 02:06:24 PM  

DamnYankees: Gosling: DamnYankees: It's a decent deal in a vacuum. It's a horrible deal when you realize there's a debt cieling fight coming in two months in which the Democrats now have zero leverage and the GOP once again knows Obama will always fold. Any gain made in this deal will simply be lost in March.

It's only a horrible deal if it in fact turns out to be a deal. You're thinking that somehow the GOP has decided to start taking yes for an answer.

They don't need to. If Pelosi signed off on this, there's no way this won't pass. All Boehner needs to do it break the Hastert Rule, which is barely even a rule.


So you're saying all Boehner needs to do is desire to no longer be Speaker.
 
2013-01-01 02:09:17 PM  

DamnYankees: Bontesla: According to Rep Emanuel Cleaver- before meeting with Joe Biden today - the sentiment was 7-2 in favor of the bill. After the meeting, he said Biden convinced at least one more.

So that's two reports that show Democrats with an icy reception.

How is that icy? 8-1 in favor is overwhelming.


If for every seven, there were two opposed on the Democrats side, that becomes a huge gap. There are what... 191 Dems. If that sample is representative then we're talking about about 42 Democrats that are icy. There are two different reports that suggest there's a good portion that are opposed to this deal. I used Howard Fineman's analysis.
 
2013-01-01 02:09:29 PM  
Photo of the House GOP meeting this morning:

img32.imageshack.us
 
2013-01-01 02:10:52 PM  
Has anyone seen the details regarding the 'permanent' AMT solution? That's sounding like a pleasant surprise, but would like to know more.
 
2013-01-01 02:12:31 PM  

bharrisuc: Is anyone watching the House live stream? ( Link )

Instead of dealing with the fiscal cliff legislation, the republicans have dropped a random, un-discussed bill to further freeze the pay of federal workers. Now they are talking about naming a post offices.

CAN WE GET ON WITH IT !!111!11


Someone upthread mentioned the GOP as a petulant child.

Now they're at the dinner table pushing peas back and forth on their plate.
 
2013-01-01 02:14:45 PM  

Corvus: The problem is Obama I think actually cares more about the American people than to make political gain. You seem to consider that a weakness.


That's what I think too.  From a purely Machiavellian standpoint, going off the cliff is probably the best option.  The problem is that it will have real consequences for average Americans (including me) and there is a risk of political blow back for the Democrats if we go back into a recession, particularly since the Dems will be on the defensive in the 2014 Senate elections.  I think Obama would rather get a deal that avoids the cliff but I also think he's prepared to go off of it if the Tea Party revolts again.  That's why I'm taking a wait and see approach to all of this.  There are just too many variable in play right now to say whether the current deal is the best deal or not.
 
2013-01-01 02:14:49 PM  

uksocal: Does this deal create a new tax bracket? I THOUGHT the highest bracket started at 200/250, but there's now that one and the 400/450 one? In the long game, that actually could be advantageous, you've now split up the top 2% into more rational brackets.


It's only more rational if you take advantage of that new bracket to really crank up the tax rate. As it stands, we're talking the difference between 35% and 39%. Yawn. Call me when we're back to post-WW2 top rates of over 90%. Apparently the holy Job Creators did just fine even at that tax rate.
 
2013-01-01 02:15:42 PM  
By the way, CBO says this will cost $3.5T (warning, PDF) over the next 10 years.

That ought to stall House GOP support.
 
2013-01-01 02:15:43 PM  

tudorgurl: UPDATE: 12:21 PM - Today
Republicans Delay Fiscal Cliff Deal Vote

In a sign that the fiscal cliff deal could face an uncertain future in the House, Republican leaders delayed their planned vote on the measure and were expected to meet twice before going to the floor of the House in the late afternoon or evening.

If the House amends the bill passed by the Senate early this morning, or worse, offers a whole new bill, it could throw the seeming certainty achieved by the Senate out the window. Many observers had seen the strong bipartisan vote in the Senate -- including such conservatives as former Club For Growth head Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) -- as an encouraging sign that Tea Party House members could also hold their noses and go along.

-- Mike McAuliff

Source


Boehner: It's time for the senate to figure out a bill for me (because I suck and am too incompetent to do my job)

[Senate makes bill for Boehner]

Boehner: Yeah nevermind we don't want that bill anyway.


Holy shiat if Boehner can't get this bill through after such a lopsided vote in the senate this guy should go home and never show his face ever again.

I think the house Reps are afraid of of voting for a "tax increase" like I said before. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They put this gun up to their own heads too.
 
2013-01-01 02:15:51 PM  
CBO scored the Senate passed deal. Can't link...
 
2013-01-01 02:17:40 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: bharrisuc: Is anyone watching the House live stream? ( Link )

Instead of dealing with the fiscal cliff legislation, the republicans have dropped a random, un-discussed bill to further freeze the pay of federal workers. Now they are talking about naming a post offices.

CAN WE GET ON WITH IT !!111!11

Someone upthread mentioned the GOP as a petulant child.

Now they're at the dinner table pushing peas back and forth on their plate.


Which is hilarious because they had just said "I don't want to make my own dinner you make it for me!!!"
 
2013-01-01 02:19:08 PM  

Corvus: Holy shiat if Boehner can't get this bill through after such a lopsided vote in the senate this guy should go home and never show his face ever again.

I think the house Reps are afraid of of voting for a "tax increase" like I said before. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They put this gun up to their own heads too.



Boehner is a waste, but if he's not re-elected speaker then who would be? Eric Cantor? Do you think Cantor would be any better? Honestly, I think he'd be worlds worse than Boehner. And as for Grover Norquist, he needs to be made irrelevant. That man has done more to ruin this country than anyone I can think of. The fact that ELECTED MEMBERS OF CONGRESS are afraid of this guy tells me he has WAAAAAAAAAY too much power. No one person should have that much power over our elected officials. None.
 
2013-01-01 02:21:33 PM  

GAT_00: By the way, CBO says this will cost $3.5T (warning, PDF) over the next 10 years.

That ought to stall House GOP support.


Thank you!
 
2013-01-01 02:21:35 PM  
 
2013-01-01 02:21:50 PM  
taxes should go back to 1950 levels
 
2013-01-01 02:22:27 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: uksocal: Does this deal create a new tax bracket? I THOUGHT the highest bracket started at 200/250, but there's now that one and the 400/450 one? In the long game, that actually could be advantageous, you've now split up the top 2% into more rational brackets.

It's only more rational if you take advantage of that new bracket to really crank up the tax rate. As it stands, we're talking the difference between 35% and 39%. Yawn. Call me when we're back to post-WW2 top rates of over 90%. Apparently the holy Job Creators did just fine even at that tax rate.


here is what frustrates the hell out of me. Ask any rich person which rather you have? a 3% tax increase on your top rates OR the stock market plunging because of economic uncertainty.

Any rich person with half a brain would take the 3% tax rate. I could understand if these people were doing this for selfish reasons but it's more about ideological dogma because these fights are not in the best interest of the rich.
 
2013-01-01 02:23:10 PM  
yea, the House will start its "session" all right.

which one of you citizens wants to bend over first??
 
2013-01-01 02:23:38 PM  

tudorgurl: Boehner is a waste, but if he's not re-elected speaker then who would be? Eric Cantor? Do you think Cantor would be any better? Honestly, I think he'd be worlds worse than Boehner.


If it means the Dems can make enough gains in the House to force legislation through, it might be worth it.  As long as the Dems control the Senate and the White House, the damage Cantor can do is limited.
 
2013-01-01 02:24:18 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Photo of the House GOP meeting this morning:

[img32.imageshack.us image 500x375]


It's not a coincidence a couple of those clown shoes look like the Arizona state flag.
 
2013-01-01 02:24:24 PM  

GAT_00: By the way, CBO says this will cost $3.5T (warning, PDF) over the next 10 years.

That ought to stall House GOP support.


Yeah, this bill does have a good start on the tax side, but the spending side is atrocious. Unless you like more debt.


/one step forward, one step back.
 
2013-01-01 02:24:32 PM  

Mentat: And here is Jonah Goldberg's response:  President Obama's effort to sabotage his own last-minute deal with the Senate reveals who is the real adult in the White House.


No one gives a shiat about that Pussbag
 
2013-01-01 02:24:37 PM  
HERE'S A BUNCH OF CONGRESSIONAL TEATARDS PREPARING FOR TODAY'S BIG VOTE BY LICKING LARD OFF EACH OTHERS ASS CHEEKS. I'D SMACK EACH OF THEM IN THE HEAD WITH A shiat SHOVEL BUT I THINK THEY WOULD ACTUALLY ENJOY THAT.

-- Fiscal Cliff Yablonsky
 
2013-01-01 02:26:05 PM  

tudorgurl: Boehner is a waste, but if he's not re-elected speaker then who would be? Eric Cantor? Do you think Cantor would be any better?


don't know. Didn't say Cantor would be better. Just saying Boehner is about the worst speaker that I have ever seen. If you can't get a majority of you own party to vote for a bill you made for them to pass (the previous budget bill) you are a failure at being a speaker of the house.
 
2013-01-01 02:26:30 PM  

Mentat: tudorgurl: Boehner is a waste, but if he's not re-elected speaker then who would be? Eric Cantor? Do you think Cantor would be any better? Honestly, I think he'd be worlds worse than Boehner.

If it means the Dems can make enough gains in the House to force legislation through, it might be worth it.  As long as the Dems control the Senate and the White House, the damage Cantor can do is limited.


I hope you're right.
 
2013-01-01 02:27:14 PM  

Corvus: tudorgurl: Boehner is a waste, but if he's not re-elected speaker then who would be? Eric Cantor? Do you think Cantor would be any better?

don't know. Didn't say Cantor would be better. Just saying Boehner is about the worst speaker that I have ever seen. If you can't get a majority of you own party to vote for a bill you made for them to pass (the previous budget bill) you are a failure at being a speaker of the house.


That's true. Has there ever been a more incompetent SotH?
 
2013-01-01 02:27:39 PM  

Mentat: f it means the Dems can make enough gains in the House to force legislation through, it might be worth it.


Yeah, from the republican side, if they roll over on taxes while doing nothing on spending, the republican/conservative base is going to be pissed. Just might swing the balance, especially if the Dems actually do something about some entitlement reform down the road.
 
2013-01-01 02:28:38 PM  

Mentat: And here is Jonah Goldberg's response:  President Obama's effort to sabotage his own last-minute deal with the Senate reveals who is the real adult in the White House.


Jonah Goldberg...*rolls eyes*.

Yeah, I'd rather take my advice from George Wallace than from Jonah Goldberg.
 
2013-01-01 02:29:36 PM  

Hobodeluxe: taxes should go back to 1950 levels


If only. Like most independents, I've seen that Andy Griffith documentary series, and in that, no one paid taxes ever. That's why everyone wants to go back to that time.

Well, that and the fact that back then, "those people" knew their place.
 
2013-01-01 02:29:42 PM  

Corvus: here is what frustrates the hell out of me. Ask any rich person which rather you have? a 3% tax increase on your top rates OR the stock market plunging because of economic uncertainty.

Any rich person with half a brain would take the 3% tax rate. I could understand if these people were doing this for selfish reasons but it's more about ideological dogma because these fights are not in the best interest of the rich.


Any rich person with half a brain doesn't care what their tax rate is over a certain point. If I were making $10 million a year, I don't care if my taxes are 10% or 90%--either way I'm still taking home over a million a year and living life better than 99.9% of the planet.
 
2013-01-01 02:30:47 PM  

HeadLever: GAT_00: By the way, CBO says this will cost $3.5T (warning, PDF) over the next 10 years.

That ought to stall House GOP support.

Yeah, this bill does have a good start on the tax side, but the spending side is atrocious. Unless you like more debt.


/one step forward, one step back.


www.zerohedge.com
 
2013-01-01 02:30:56 PM  

Rwa2play: Mentat: And here is Jonah Goldberg's response:  President Obama's effort to sabotage his own last-minute deal with the Senate reveals who is the real adult in the White House.

Jonah Goldberg...*rolls eyes*.

Yeah, I'd rather take my advice from George Wallace than from Jonah Goldberg.


It wasn't intended to be taken seriously :)
 
2013-01-01 02:31:07 PM  
The good folks at Free Republic hate the deal. The Boobies is a plea to call GOP Congressmen. Other posts say to "let Ubama drive us off the cliff," that the GOP who vote for it are "sheep," and that if it passes the House, it will be because of "Rats and Rinos" working together. People believe Boehner will lose the Speakership if it passes. Also, the whole fiscal cliff is a media conspiracy, so that the media can broadcast the fact that Republicans voted for a tax hike, loose seats in Congress, and then Obama will be able to pass Amnesty and gun control.
 
2013-01-01 02:31:30 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: Corvus: here is what frustrates the hell out of me. Ask any rich person which rather you have? a 3% tax increase on your top rates OR the stock market plunging because of economic uncertainty.

Any rich person with half a brain would take the 3% tax rate. I could understand if these people were doing this for selfish reasons but it's more about ideological dogma because these fights are not in the best interest of the rich.

Any rich person with half a brain doesn't care what their tax rate is over a certain point. If I were making $10 million a year, I don't care if my taxes are 10% or 90%--either way I'm still taking home over a million a year and living life better than 99.9% of the planet.


Except some of the rich think living only on a $1 Million/year is being "poor." That's how deluded some of them are.
 
2013-01-01 02:32:55 PM  

quizzical: The good folks at Free Republic hate the deal. The Boobies is a plea to call GOP Congressmen. Other posts say to "let Ubama drive us off the cliff," that the GOP who vote for it are "sheep," and that if it passes the House, it will be because of "Rats and Rinos" working together. People believe Boehner will lose the Speakership if it passes. Also, the whole fiscal cliff is a media conspiracy, so that the media can broadcast the fact that Republicans voted for a tax hike, loose seats in Congress, and then Obama will be able to pass Amnesty and gun control.


Don't forget gay marriage and forced abortions for all!
 
2013-01-01 02:35:52 PM  

hasty ambush: [www.zerohedge.com image 362x1500]


Exactly. Add in 4 times this much with actual spending cuts, (not 33 billion in increases) and we may actually have a good first step.

Right now, it is pretty much more of the same - rearranging the deck chairs.
 
2013-01-01 02:36:21 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: Corvus: here is what frustrates the hell out of me. Ask any rich person which rather you have? a 3% tax increase on your top rates OR the stock market plunging because of economic uncertainty.

Any rich person with half a brain would take the 3% tax rate. I could understand if these people were doing this for selfish reasons but it's more about ideological dogma because these fights are not in the best interest of the rich.

Any rich person with half a brain doesn't care what their tax rate is over a certain point. If I were making $10 million a year, I don't care if my taxes are 10% or 90%--either way I'm still taking home over a million a year and living life better than 99.9% of the planet.


I don't have a link, but Businessweek interviewed Warren Buffett a while back and asked him about capital gains taxes. Paraphrasing, he pointed out that if someone offers you a really lucrative investment, your first question should not be if it will make your taxes go up.
 
2013-01-01 02:37:07 PM  

quizzical: The good folks at Free Republic hate the deal.


Of course they do. It pretty much does nothing for the long term debt problem.
 
2013-01-01 02:37:29 PM  

quizzical: The good folks at Free Republic hate the deal. The Boobies is a plea to call GOP Congressmen. Other posts say to "let Ubama drive us off the cliff," that the GOP who vote for it are "sheep," and that if it passes the House, it will be because of "Rats and Rinos" working together. People believe Boehner will lose the Speakership if it passes. Also, the whole fiscal cliff is a media conspiracy, so that the media can broadcast the fact that Republicans voted for a tax hike, loose seats in Congress, and then Obama will be able to pass Amnesty and gun control.


Yep, this is what I have been saying. The Republicans have two choices, don't vote for it and let taxes go up on everyone or vote for it and vote for "Obama's tax increase". Both means putting their seat in jeopardy.

This wound is totally self inflicted by the Republicans too. It would be funny if it didn't actually impact people's lives.
 
2013-01-01 02:41:43 PM  

cryinoutloud: JolobinSmokin: I'm just not that worried one way or the other.
I'll barely be affected in anyway no matter what deal passes.

I'm only watching this to see if I'm going to have a job this summer. You know, everybody was freaking out about defense contractors losing their jobs--highly trained, highly paid professionals who can probably find another (well-paying) job. Meanwhile, seasonal government workers--a lot of students and poor people who work two or three jobs in a year--will probably not be hired this year because of funding hold-ups, just like they weren't a few years back, when another budget battle was going on.

Never heard a word about that, though, did you? I did, because my job was never funded and I was unemployed during the only time of the year when I make enough money to get by. Is it going to happen again? Nobody knows, because first there's this battle, then the debt ceiling coming up, before anyone even knows if they will get their money for the year. But who gives a fark? It's just people who depend on those seasonal jobs to get by or pay their college tuition, that's all. But cut those jobs, cut unemployment, cut social services, and hey, take out another loan if you can't afford college. You can always pay it back later with the super job you're going to get from our booming economy.

/fark it, I'm going on welfare. I'll probably make more money being a leech. We don't really need national parks or public lands, anyway.
//"Government jobs--they're a sure thing. Just get in with the feds--you're set. You'll be rehired year after year."


Sucks bro, I went thru that sort of thing in 2007-09.
I'm a real estate appraiser, but with the crash behind our industry, I'm bak to doing refinances, foreclosure appraisal and sales,

What I did was expand my area of expertise and I'll never have that problem again, I'm a liberal but at some point u gotta take reaponsibility for the field of work u chose.

I never lost my job since I'm self employed but I had some lean months.

Best of luck to you, think about diversifying your skill set.
 
2013-01-01 02:41:54 PM  

quizzical: The good folks at Free Republic hate the deal. The Boobies is a plea to call GOP Congressmen. Other posts say to "let Ubama drive us off the cliff," that the GOP who vote for it are "sheep," and that if it passes the House, it will be because of "Rats and Rinos" working together. People believe Boehner will lose the Speakership if it passes. Also, the whole fiscal cliff is a media conspiracy, so that the media can broadcast the fact that Republicans voted for a tax hike, loose seats in Congress, and then Obama will be able to pass Amnesty and gun control.


This one is hilarious:

The Senate deal raises taxes on minimum-wage Americans because it does not address the expiration of the payroll tax cut. Under this deal, tax rates for all Americans making over $400, (not $400,000) will go up by 2%.


Yes Freepers are now complaining that something from the OBAMA STIMULUS EVIL SPENDING is going to expire!!
 
2013-01-01 02:43:20 PM  

Corvus: LouDobbsAwaaaay: dumbobruni: in other news, the House of Representatives has no significance, and filibusters don't exist in the Senate.

Explain how the House or Senate, using filibusters or not using them, could stop the fiscal cliff from being enacted today, or stop the Dems from flogging the GOP with bills to cut taxes on the bottom 98% afterward. Be specific.

The problem is Obama I think actually cares more about the American people than to make political gain. You seem to consider that a weakness.


This is a non-sequitor. It rests on a Bare Assertion Fallacy and doesn't even address the question I was asking.
 
2013-01-01 02:45:13 PM  
So, in Republican World, any temporary tax relief you provide is actually "raising taxes" because the tax break will eventually expire, right? And whoever had the hot "potatoe" when the tax break expires did it, right?
 
2013-01-01 02:48:17 PM  

KarmicDisaster: So, in Republican World, any temporary tax relief you provide is actually "raising taxes" because the tax break will eventually expire, right?


When taken into consideration with respect to 'current policy', yes. CBO does the same thing via the baseline and alternative baseline scenarios.
 
2013-01-01 02:49:03 PM  
The House Republican leadership might just be dumb enough to attempt to amend this thing. Cantor is apparently opposed to the deal.

https://twitter.com/dcbigjohn/statuses/286185030303236096

https://twitter.com/dcbigjohn/statuses/286185355160473601
 
2013-01-01 02:50:18 PM  

Corvus: quizzical: The good folks at Free Republic hate the deal. The Boobies is a plea to call GOP Congressmen. Other posts say to "let Ubama drive us off the cliff," that the GOP who vote for it are "sheep," and that if it passes the House, it will be because of "Rats and Rinos" working together. People believe Boehner will lose the Speakership if it passes. Also, the whole fiscal cliff is a media conspiracy, so that the media can broadcast the fact that Republicans voted for a tax hike, loose seats in Congress, and then Obama will be able to pass Amnesty and gun control.

This one is hilarious:

The Senate deal raises taxes on minimum-wage Americans because it does not address the expiration of the payroll tax cut. Under this deal, tax rates for all Americans making over $400, (not $400,000) will go up by 2%.

Yes Freepers are now complaining that something from the OBAMA STIMULUS EVIL SPENDING is going to expire!!


I wonder if this is where one of the Breitbart writers got the idea that the Senate deal included $41 in tax increases for every dollar of spending cuts?

/one of my Republican-leaning friends posted a link to said Breitbart article on Facebook about an hour ago
 
2013-01-01 02:51:51 PM  

House GOP consensus emerging, lawmaker says: Send #fiscalcliff bill back to #Senate w/spending cuts

- Lisa Mascaro (@LisaMascaroinDC) January 1, 2013
 
2013-01-01 02:52:57 PM  
The Republicans have managed to divide by potato and ripped a hole in the fabric of the herp-derp continuum.
 
2013-01-01 02:59:08 PM  

Zeno-25: The House Republican leadership might just be dumb enough to attempt to amend this thing. Cantor is apparently opposed to the deal.

https://twitter.com/dcbigjohn/statuses/286185030303236096

https://twitter.com/dcbigjohn/statuses/286185355160473601


Go, Eric! Stand your ground! No compromises!

(maybe after this fails Obama will be willing to shove some real socializm down neocon throats)
 
2013-01-01 03:00:20 PM  

HeadLever: hasty ambush: [www.zerohedge.com image 362x1500]

Exactly. Add in 4 times this much with actual spending cuts, (not 33 billion in increases) and we may actually have a good first step.

Right now, it is pretty much more of the same - rearranging the deck chairs.


The debt and deficit are not our current problem.

I want to repeat that, for the benefit of all:

The debt and deficit are not our current problem.

They are distractions. They are distractions used by the right and center right (which is to say, every Republican, and about 80% of Democrats including the President) to create a sense of urgency. Spending needs to continue in the short-term in order to get the economy back in order. Only after that's done--only after unemployment is back below ~6%, and growth is above ~2% yearly, should we think about cutting the deficit and debt. Why, you ask?

Because if we start cutting them now by imposing huge spending cuts, in the long term the debt will increase even more due to a continued sagging economy.

But politicians on both sides only care about short-term fixes; it's one of the problems with our election system, rather than an actual problem with either party.

The ultra-far-right, and the people that vote for them, rely not on economic realities, but fear of the deficit, as if deficit spending were the worst thing ever to happen. Deficit spending is necessary in times of low economic growth or contraction. Get the economy back in order, then further raise taxes on the middle and upper classes, and start cutting spending.
 
2013-01-01 03:03:31 PM  

hasty ambush: HeadLever: GAT_00: By the way, CBO says this will cost $3.5T (warning, PDF) over the next 10 years.

That ought to stall House GOP support.

Yeah, this bill does have a good start on the tax side, but the spending side is atrocious. Unless you like more debt.


/one step forward, one step back.

[www.zerohedge.com image 362x1500]


Really the system of debt is untenable for the entire world. Capitalism will crumble before we ever approach financial health. We live in a technology rich world with the most efficient means to produce goods and services that humanity has ever known and somehow it's not enough for us not to be in debt. Unless real big changes are made to the fed, treasury, and banking system we are farked.

Slightly raising taxes on the rich and some reduced spending are band-aids on gaping wounds. And cutting entitlements will only serve to create more man made poverty.
 
2013-01-01 03:03:38 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: LouDobbsAwaaaay: dumbobruni: in other news, the House of Representatives has no significance, and filibusters don't exist in the Senate.

Explain how the House or Senate, using filibusters or not using them, could stop the fiscal cliff from being enacted today, or stop the Dems from flogging the GOP with bills to cut taxes on the bottom 98% afterward. Be specific.

The problem is Obama I think actually cares more about the American people than to make political gain. You seem to consider that a weakness.

This is a non-sequitor. It rests on a Bare Assertion Fallacy and doesn't even address the question I was asking.


Probably because I was no addressing your question at all. I am addressing your overall complaint against is that he should be doing more for political gain instead of trying to help people.
 
2013-01-01 03:04:02 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: House GOP consensus emerging, lawmaker says: Send #fiscalcliff bill back to #Senate w/spending cuts
- Lisa Mascaro (@LisaMascaroinDC) January 1, 2013


And once again the GOP snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. Obama will deploy the gun-to-the-head bill on Thursday.
 
2013-01-01 03:06:01 PM  

Gosling: And once again the GOP snatches defeat from the jaws of victory.


Senate Democratic aide on whether they'll take up a bil amended by House GOP: "They are full of hot air. Not a chance we come back."

- Ryan Grim (@ryangrim) January 1, 2013


The consensus is the House GOP is full of it.
 
2013-01-01 03:07:23 PM  

KarmicDisaster: So, in Republican World, any temporary tax relief you provide is actually "raising taxes" because the tax break will eventually expire, right? And whoever had the hot "potatoe" when the tax break expires did it, right?


Which by that logic make any "temporary" tax cut a "tax increase" (because it makes taxes rise at a later date)so all the Republicans have voted for tax increases.

Too bad Republicans don't take their beliefs to logical conclusions and they are hodgepodge of justifications to support the positions they already have.

For example their hatred for "activists judges" but their huge support of Judges striking down anything Obama does.
 
2013-01-01 03:09:29 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: House GOP consensus emerging, lawmaker says: Send #fiscalcliff bill back to #Senate w/spending cuts- Lisa Mascaro (@LisaMascaroinDC) January 1, 2013


That's a pretty amazing choice, considering the Senate passed their bill 89-8.
 
2013-01-01 03:11:42 PM  

quizzical: Dusk-You-n-Me: House GOP consensus emerging, lawmaker says: Send #fiscalcliff bill back to #Senate w/spending cuts- Lisa Mascaro (@LisaMascaroinDC) January 1, 2013

That's a pretty amazing choice, considering the Senate passed their bill 89-8.


I get the feeling they're going to try and poison pill it by demanding cuts to entitlements in the hopes that Dems will reject it and thus (in theory) open themselves up to blame.
 
2013-01-01 03:13:46 PM  
PLEASE AMEND THIS BILL. The lulz would be epic.
 
2013-01-01 03:14:03 PM  

LazarusLong42: The debt and deficit are not our current problem.


I'll disagree. When the interest on the debt eats up about 20% of the entire federal tax revenue (and remember how low interest rates are currently), it is a huge problem. only those that have no clue are the ones that pretend that this is not a problem. Just imagine what will happen to this cost when interest rates normalize. While i'll agree that it is not the biggest problem in the short term, it is THE most serious long term problems that we currently face as a country and that small changes right now have huge implications for future generations. Kicking that can down the road isn't going to work for much longer.

The economy has found a footing. It is not a great one, but we need to start looking to the long term sooner rather than later. Propping up short term bubbles while sacrificing long term fiscal security is not something that most want us to see.
 
2013-01-01 03:17:37 PM  
Serious, these people are asses!!

Obama: Here is a compromise, is this ok?

Bohener (and house GOP): No, screw you we will write our own bill.

[writes own bill]

Bohener (and house GOP): Umm we don't like our own bill. Senate you have to write us a bi-partisan bill and we will then vote on it!

Senate: Wow that's hard, but we did it! Here it is.

Bohener (and house GOP): No! we don't want this either!!!


Ok so they don't like the Presidents bill, they don't like the Senates bill, the don't even like THEIR OWN bill. It seems to me there is no one left for Bohener and the house Republicans to pass the buck to anymore.

Might as well just send everyone home and dive off the fiscal cliff then.
 
2013-01-01 03:18:24 PM  
You have GOT to be kidding me! Really???
 
2013-01-01 03:18:33 PM  

LazarusLong42: Spending needs to continue in the short-term in order to get the economy back in order.


The problem with this general statement is that this spending creates artificial bubbles that are not sustainable. Look at the entitlement spending for a perfect example of this. Assuming that we can simply pull back this spending at an arbitrary point pretty much goes against all history. Once established, government spending rarely ever is reduced. Look at this deal for a perfect example. Spending is actually increased under this deal.
 
2013-01-01 03:20:22 PM  

HeadLever: Once established, government spending rarely ever is reduced.


Budget Control Act. $1.5T cuts in spending in exchange for no tax increases, signed by Obama.
 
2013-01-01 03:21:14 PM  
Biden Leaves Dems Meeting

At 2:06 p.m. Tuesday, Biden swept out of back door of a Democratic caucus meeting about the fiscal cliff deal without giving any concrete indication of what had gone on in an hour and a half of talking and answering questions.

I asked him if he had the votes and he said, "you're an old hand and you know that I never predict the vote." I asked him what the most effective argument was that he had made and he said, "you'll have to ask the members that."

He smiled the usual Biden sincerely frozen grimace and added, "I'm a 'foreign policy expert!' Why am I here doing this?"

Then he disappeared up the escalator surrounded by a cloud of aides and security officers.

-- Howard Fineman

Source
 
2013-01-01 03:21:24 PM  

HeadLever: I'll disagree. When the interest on the debt eats up about 20% of the entire federal tax revenue (and remember how low interest rates are currently), it is a huge problem. only those that have no clue are the ones that pretend that this is not a problem. Just imagine what will happen to this cost when interest rates normalize. While i'll agree that it is not the biggest problem in the short term, it is THE most serious long term problems that we currently face as a country and that small changes right now have huge implications for future generations. Kicking that can down the road isn't going to work for much longer.


It is a problem. It's a long term problem. Look at Europe if you think making huge cuts and tax increases are a good idea with a weak economy. One reason our deficit shot up was because of losing revenue because people are out of work and are on getting government aid. Fixing that would be a huge help to the deficit. (I believe its about 600 billion that added to the deficit because of the recession)
 
2013-01-01 03:21:41 PM  
 
2013-01-01 03:22:29 PM  

LazarusLong42: in the long term the debt will increase even more due to a continued sagging economy.


And when the future debt will be a direct contribution to a sagging economy. It is a catch 22 we face right now. Not many good options. I vote we need to pick the one that give us a chance in the future. Not this one:

theeconomiccollapseblog.com
 
2013-01-01 03:22:53 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-01 03:23:48 PM  
Word is that Cantor essentially rejected the deal right in Boehner's face. The House GOP was pleasantly surprised.

The next words Cantor says to Boehner will be 'EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINAAAAAATE!'
 
2013-01-01 03:24:02 PM  

Corvus: One reason our deficit shot up was because of losing revenue because people are out of work and are on getting government aid.


Ayup.


The deficit ballooned in 2009 because of the Great Recession. It knocked so many people out of work that tax revenues dropped to the lowest share of the economy in over sixty years. (The Bush tax cuts on the rich also reduced revenues.) The recession also boosted government spending on a stimulus program and on safety nets like unemployment insurance and food stamps.

But as the nation slowly emerges from recession, more people are employed - generating more tax revenues, and requiring less spending on safety nets and stimulus. That's why the deficit is shrinking.  Link
 
2013-01-01 03:24:12 PM  

HeadLever: Once established, government spending rarely ever is reduced. Look at this deal for a perfect example. Spending is actually increased under this deal.


You are aware that the countries population increases every year which does increase the need for government spending? Is that lost on you?
 
2013-01-01 03:25:39 PM  

Gosling: Word is that Cantor essentially rejected the deal right in Boehner's face. The House GOP was pleasantly surprised.

The next words Cantor says to Boehner will be 'EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINAAAAAATE!'


Link?
 
2013-01-01 03:26:14 PM  
Hahaha! Yessss, amend away you buncha tools. Do it!!
 
2013-01-01 03:26:21 PM  

Corvus: Probably because I was no addressing your question at all. I am addressing your overall complaint against is that he should be doing more for political gain instead of trying to help people.


False Dilemma Fallacy. Look at all the help he's providing to the American people by treating the GOP with respect! Really getting a lot done, aren't we?

You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.
 
2013-01-01 03:27:12 PM  

DamnYankees: Gosling: Word is that Cantor essentially rejected the deal right in Boehner's face. The House GOP was pleasantly surprised.

The next words Cantor says to Boehner will be 'EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINAAAAAATE!'

Link?


Go to Twitter and type in 'cantor'. The feed's blowing to smithereens over it.
 
2013-01-01 03:28:23 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Corvus: One reason our deficit shot up was because of losing revenue because people are out of work and are on getting government aid.

Ayup.


The deficit ballooned in 2009 because of the Great Recession. It knocked so many people out of work that tax revenues dropped to the lowest share of the economy in over sixty years. (The Bush tax cuts on the rich also reduced revenues.) The recession also boosted government spending on a stimulus program and on safety nets like unemployment insurance and food stamps.

But as the nation slowly emerges from recession, more people are employed - generating more tax revenues, and requiring less spending on safety nets and stimulus. That's why the deficit is shrinking.  Link


Yes but this pisses off Republicans because their dogma is the helping people out of a tough spot doesn't help everyone else. Their dogma is that you "punish" poor because they are not boot strapy enough.

It's like protestant beliefs turned into economics. Rich people are like people in heaven. They are the good and should be rewarded poor people are the evil and must be punished.
 
2013-01-01 03:30:47 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Budget Control Act. $1.5T cuts in spending in exchange for no tax increases, signed by Obama.


That was the goal for the supercommittee. We all know how that turned out.

The actual amount was about $900B over 10 years (average of about 8% of our current deficit). a decent start. Short of fixing much.
 
2013-01-01 03:30:49 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.


The patty-cakes bullshiat is also known as 'giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves'. This is Obama being able to say in no uncertain terms, 'Look how much I've tried to compromise. I've compromised so much my own party is angry at me. But they won't listen to reason.' The shiat-knocking will come on Thursday.
 
2013-01-01 03:31:57 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: Probably because I was no addressing your question at all. I am addressing your overall complaint against is that he should be doing more for political gain instead of trying to help people.

False Dilemma Fallacy. Look at all the help he's providing to the American people by treating the GOP with respect! Really getting a lot done, aren't we?

You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.


Oh good grief, this isn't a debate class, it's politics.  I'm sorry you're mad that there's now only a 98% percent chance that you'll end up getting exactly what you want, but that's life.
 
2013-01-01 03:31:58 PM  
The House cannot possibly be that stup...

Wait, this is the House. Never mind.
 
2013-01-01 03:32:43 PM  

Gosling: LouDobbsAwaaaay: You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.

The patty-cakes bullshiat is also known as 'giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves'. This is Obama being able to say in no uncertain terms, 'Look how much I've tried to compromise. I've compromised so much my own party is angry at me. But they won't listen to reason.' The shiat-knocking will come on Thursday.


Yeah I listened to this excuse for four years. "He's playing 319-dimensional chess! The payoff is coming! Just you wait!" Still haven't seen anything but endless capitulation to GOP demands at every stage of the process.
 
2013-01-01 03:33:33 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: Probably because I was no addressing your question at all. I am addressing your overall complaint against is that he should be doing more for political gain instead of trying to help people.

False Dilemma Fallacy. Look at all the help he's providing to the American people by treating the GOP with respect! Really getting a lot done, aren't we?

You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.


I took logic in college and logical fallacies. Don't just rattle them off and pretend you prove something you look like an idiot.


No it's not a false dilemma because you yourself said he should go over the fiscal cliff. Doing that would hurt lots Americans. you can pretend it won't but it will.

Are you saying no American would be hurt from 2 million people losing their unemployment insurance?
'

That's false to you?
 
2013-01-01 03:33:54 PM  

Corvus: You are aware that the countries population increases every year which does increase the need for government spending? Is that lost on you?


Nope, but the increase in population is about 1% a year. My take in spending increases is per GDP, which accounts for this (and inflation).

factcheck.org
 
2013-01-01 03:33:56 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: House GOP consensus emerging, lawmaker says: Send #fiscalcliff bill back to #Senate w/spending cuts- Lisa Mascaro (@LisaMascaroinDC) January 1, 2013


I'm actually happy the GOP is so stupid.  They could have gotten to do this all over again in two months with more cuts, but they don't like it.
 
2013-01-01 03:34:00 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Gosling: LouDobbsAwaaaay: You know what would help the American people? If Obama would knock the shiat out the GOP so hard they scurry back under a rock and hide for fear of Obama bringing them more pain. Play this patty-cakes bullshiat with them, and you get what the GOP is doing right now.

The patty-cakes bullshiat is also known as 'giving the GOP enough rope to hang themselves'. This is Obama being able to say in no uncertain terms, 'Look how much I've tried to compromise. I've compromised so much my own party is angry at me. But they won't listen to reason.' The shiat-knocking will come on Thursday.

Yeah I listened to this excuse for four years. "He's playing 319-dimensional chess! The payoff is coming! Just you wait!" Still haven't seen anything but endless capitulation to GOP demands at every stage of the process.


...and this time is the same how? Because the Obama that I've seen publicly calling out the Republicans on their bullshiat this time isn't the one I remember from the debt ceiling or health care bills.
 
2013-01-01 03:34:28 PM  

Mentat: Oh good grief, this isn't a debate class, it's politics.  I'm sorry you're mad that there's now only a 98% percent chance that you'll end up getting exactly what you want, but that's life.


Nice to see the Obama cheerleaders retreating to their home-position. "Stop complaining! We're trying to make this look good!"
 
2013-01-01 03:35:45 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Yeah I listened to this excuse for four years. "He's playing 319-dimensional chess! The payoff is coming! Just you wait!" Still haven't seen anything but endless capitulation to GOP demands at every stage of the process.


We already know the shiat-kicking bill is in the pipeline. It was be the first one introduced on Thursday by the Democrats. It takes back everything that Obama offered up and goes right back to the $250K threshold.
 
2013-01-01 03:36:10 PM  

tudorgurl: UPDATE: 12:21 PM - Today
Republicans Delay Fiscal Cliff Deal Vote

In a sign that the fiscal cliff deal could face an uncertain future in the House, Republican leaders delayed their planned vote on the measure and were expected to meet twice before going to the floor of the House in the late afternoon or evening.

If the House amends the bill passed by the Senate early this morning, or worse, offers a whole new bill, it could throw the seeming certainty achieved by the Senate out the window. Many observers had seen the strong bipartisan vote in the Senate -- including such conservatives as former Club For Growth head Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) -- as an encouraging sign that Tea Party House members could also hold their noses and go along.

-- Mike McAuliff

Source


gifsoup.com
 
2013-01-01 03:36:39 PM  

IMDWalrus: ...and this time is the same how? Because the Obama that I've seen publicly calling out the Republicans on their bullshiat this time isn't the one I remember from the debt ceiling or health care bills.


The end result looks like it's shaping up to be the same. I'm not interested in an Obama who manages to squeak out a whisper of protest here and there before caving and giving the GOP whatever they want.
 
2013-01-01 03:37:38 PM  

HeadLever: Corvus: You are aware that the countries population increases every year which does increase the need for government spending? Is that lost on you?

Nope, but the increase in population is about 1% a year. My take in spending increases is per GDP, which accounts for this (and inflation).

[factcheck.org image 502x389]


So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg
 
2013-01-01 03:38:08 PM  
"Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."
 
2013-01-01 03:38:32 PM  
Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?
 
2013-01-01 03:38:55 PM  

Corvus: It is a problem. It's a long term problem. Look at Europe if you think making huge cuts and tax increases are a good idea with a weak economy. One reason our deficit shot up was because of losing revenue because people are out of work and are on getting government aid. Fixing that would be a huge help to the deficit. (I believe its about 600 billion that added to the deficit because of the recession)


I would go further and say that employing people at wages where they don't have to rely on any aid just to live would cure not only the deficit ills, but most of the "mental health" problems that people are blaming for all the mass shootings that are going around.
 
2013-01-01 03:39:10 PM  

Gosling: We already know the shiat-kicking bill is in the pipeline. It was be the first one introduced on Thursday by the Democrats. It takes back everything that Obama offered up and goes right back to the $250K threshold.


That will be a victory for congressional Democrats. All Obama is trying to do is squelch it by twisting his own people's arms to accept a terrible, capitulating "compromise". The Dems in congress shouldn't have to work around the Dem President.
 
2013-01-01 03:39:54 PM  

Infernalist: Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?


They WILL BE sending it back. They delayed their vote on it, most likely to amend it with stuff that has no chance in hell of passing the Senate.

Because compromise is a sign of weakness. Or something.
 
2013-01-01 03:40:44 PM  

Infernalist: Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?


I think they're still in the process of farking it up, but other than that, you pretty much got it.
 
2013-01-01 03:41:33 PM  
Ross Douthat  @DouthatNYT
Seems like superdupermajority for Sen. bill could be emboldening House Rs. "If so many Dems voted 'yes' at 450K, why not try them at 750K?"
 
2013-01-01 03:42:23 PM  

Corvus: quizzical: The good folks at Free Republic hate the deal. The Boobies is a plea to call GOP Congressmen. Other posts say to "let Ubama drive us off the cliff," that the GOP who vote for it are "sheep," and that if it passes the House, it will be because of "Rats and Rinos" working together. People believe Boehner will lose the Speakership if it passes. Also, the whole fiscal cliff is a media conspiracy, so that the media can broadcast the fact that Republicans voted for a tax hike, loose seats in Congress, and then Obama will be able to pass Amnesty and gun control.

Yep, this is what I have been saying. The Republicans have two choices, don't vote for it and let taxes go up on everyone or vote for it and vote for "Obama's tax increase". Both means putting their seat in jeopardy.

This wound is totally self inflicted by the Republicans too. It would be funny if it didn't actually impact people's lives.


To be fair, they were fully expecting to win the presidency and every House and Senate seat in November. Somebody screwed up.
 
2013-01-01 03:42:45 PM  

Infernalist: Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?


House hasn't officially taken a dump yet. Cantor stood up at the private Republican meeting and told Bohener that he objected. The feeling is that Republicans will vote to amend the bill and add spending cuts. But Pelosi is trying to get Boehner to bring it up for a vote as is.
 
2013-01-01 03:43:17 PM  

HeadLever: Corvus: You are aware that the countries population increases every year which does increase the need for government spending? Is that lost on you?

Nope, but the increase in population is about 1% a year. My take in spending increases is per GDP, which accounts for this (and inflation).

[factcheck.org image 502x389]


You changed the subject. You said their should be NO GROWTH. Now you admit government DOES in general need to increase.

I NEVER said it's growing ONLY at the rate of population increase. My point was that you claim that government shouldn't grow at all is stupid because it should.

And GDP is not population either so your chart has no bearing at all to my point.


We've explained things to you many time already and you seem to ignore anytime someone points out your assumptions are wrong.

By the way did you notice your chart shows spending went DOWN (as a percent of GDP) which disproves another of your simpleton statements you pretended to be a truism earlier.
 
2013-01-01 03:43:20 PM  

Infernalist: Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?


No, but they've tweeted that poop is coming out.
 
2013-01-01 03:43:34 PM  

DamnYankees: Ross Douthat  @DouthatNYT
Seems like superdupermajority for Sen. bill could be emboldening House Rs. "If so many Dems voted 'yes' at 450K, why not try them at 750K?"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

An entirely unforeseeable consequence...
 
2013-01-01 03:43:45 PM  

sonnyboy11: Infernalist: Holy shiat, I step away for a few hours and the whole place catches fire.

As I understand it, the House took the Senate bill from last night, took a big steaming dump on it and sent it back to the Senate to be approved with that steaming shiat all over it?

Is that a correct short assessment of the current situation?

I think they're still in the process of farking it up, but other than that, you pretty much got it.


This pleases me. Thank God for the retarded House GOP. They'll ruin this compromise and force us over the cliff. We'll get massive cuts, tax rates go back to where they should be and we'll get Democrat bills on the first day of the new Congress fixing the Middle Class taxes back down to where they were.

With any luck, we'll see some Democrat bills authorizing agency managers to strategically cut out wasteful programs to satisfy the sequester 12% requirements.
 
2013-01-01 03:43:54 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: ah.... But who gets blamed for the cuts?


That seems to be the most important thing to way too many people here.
 
2013-01-01 03:44:57 PM  

Kuroshin: So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg


Me too, but the trend is tenuous. Look at this bill for a perfect example. It actually contains spending increases. And if you look at Bush's years, Obama is far above his average (yes, it is not all of his fault, however, it is all our problem). See the overall spending pattern in the Chart 9 where it dips some before continuing to climb at an exponential pace? That is what I am worried about.
 
2013-01-01 03:45:09 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: IMDWalrus: ...and this time is the same how? Because the Obama that I've seen publicly calling out the Republicans on their bullshiat this time isn't the one I remember from the debt ceiling or health care bills.

The end result looks like it's shaping up to be the same. I'm not interested in an Obama who manages to squeak out a whisper of protest here and there before caving and giving the GOP whatever they want.


Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.
 
2013-01-01 03:46:21 PM  

Corvus: Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.


Because if FreeRepublic says it, it must be true, right? You really need to come up with something better than that.
 
2013-01-01 03:46:23 PM  

HeadLever: Kuroshin: So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg

Me too, but the trend is tenuous. Look at this bill for a perfect example. It actually contains spending increases. And if you look at Bush's years, Obama is far above his average (yes, it is not all of his fault, however, it is all our problem). See the overall spending pattern in the Chart 9 where it dips some before continuing to climb at an exponential pace? That is what I am worried about.


That may have something to do with the only proven way across decades of fiscal policy to cause job growth is government spending.
 
2013-01-01 03:47:10 PM  

Corvus: LouDobbsAwaaaay: IMDWalrus: ...and this time is the same how? Because the Obama that I've seen publicly calling out the Republicans on their bullshiat this time isn't the one I remember from the debt ceiling or health care bills.

The end result looks like it's shaping up to be the same. I'm not interested in an Obama who manages to squeak out a whisper of protest here and there before caving and giving the GOP whatever they want.

Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.


Is that where you go for valuable political assessments?
 
2013-01-01 03:47:18 PM  

DamnYankees: Ross Douthat  @DouthatNYT
Seems like superdupermajority for Sen. bill could be emboldening House Rs. "If so many Dems voted 'yes' at 450K, why not try them at 750K?"


This is now a facepalm thread. Everybody post facepalms now.
 
2013-01-01 03:47:19 PM  

Corvus: Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.


LOL according to those guys, the Fiscal Cliff is now an imaginary creation of the liberal media.
 
2013-01-01 03:47:54 PM  

HeadLever: LazarusLong42: The debt and deficit are not our current problem.

I'll disagree. When the interest on the debt eats up about 20% of the entire federal tax revenue (and remember how low interest rates are currently), it is a huge problem. only those that have no clue are the ones that pretend that this is not a problem. Just imagine what will happen to this cost when interest rates normalize. While i'll agree that it is not the biggest problem in the short term, it is THE most serious long term problems that we currently face as a country and that small changes right now have huge implications for future generations. Kicking that can down the road isn't going to work for much longer.

The economy has found a footing. It is not a great one, but we need to start looking to the long term sooner rather than later. Propping up short term bubbles while sacrificing long term fiscal security is not something that most want us to see.


And austerity measures are certain to put a stop to the slow recovery we're enjoying now.
 
2013-01-01 03:48:05 PM  
I take Cantor's rejection of the bill in front of his Republican colleagues as a declaration for his candidacy as Speaker of the House. Why else try to make Boehner look bad for promoting the bill? I imagine Cantor is thinking "If these guys are crazy enough to reject this deal, they may be just crazy enough to make me speaker, too!"
 
2013-01-01 03:48:50 PM  

HeadLever: Kuroshin: So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg

Me too, but the trend is tenuous. Look at this bill for a perfect example. It actually contains spending increases. And if you look at Bush's years, Obama is far above his average (yes, it is not all of his fault, however, it is all our problem). See the overall spending pattern in the Chart 9 where it dips some before continuing to climb at an exponential pace? That is what I am worried about.


Right but as we have pointed out to you time and time again but you keep ignoring it because it doesn't fit your dogma, putting in a austerity program now will only make matters worse.

The recession is a BIG reason why those numbers shot up. I know telling you this hundreds of times won't make you get it because it goes against your dogma but it's true.

You keep putting your fingers in your ears about that.
 
2013-01-01 03:48:57 PM  
images.wikia.com
 
2013-01-01 03:49:01 PM  

jocutus: I take Cantor's rejection of the bill in front of his Republican colleagues as a declaration for his candidacy as Speaker of the House.


I for one would like to re-welcome Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
 
2013-01-01 03:49:03 PM  

Corvus: You said their should be NO GROWTH.


Nope. I don't mind growth in nominal dollars as this is needed for inflation and population growth. The issue that we all have is with programs that exceed the growth of GDP which are Medicare, SS and Interest on the Debt.
 
2013-01-01 03:49:27 PM  

HeadLever: Kuroshin: So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg

Me too, but the trend is tenuous. Look at this bill for a perfect example. It actually contains spending increases. And if you look at Bush's years, Obama is far above his average (yes, it is not all of his fault, however, it is all our problem). See the overall spending pattern in the Chart 9 where it dips some before continuing to climb at an exponential pace? That is what I am worried about.


Does that graph include the costs of wars during the Bush years. Remember they were off the budget and Obama put the, back in.
 
2013-01-01 03:49:34 PM  
Eventually Cantor is going to get his wish and become the House Republican alpha dog.

I couldn't think of a better figure head to ensure national disgust and a sizable withdrawal of support from the GOP by casual voters.

The dude really is an ethically bankrupt, creep.

It would be worth it just for the Bill Hader sketches on SNL. Think "Stefon" in a suit and black wig.
 
2013-01-01 03:49:43 PM  

Gosling: DamnYankees: Ross Douthat  @DouthatNYT
Seems like superdupermajority for Sen. bill could be emboldening House Rs. "If so many Dems voted 'yes' at 450K, why not try them at 750K?"

This is now a facepalm thread. Everybody post facepalms now.


I'm giddy. All this time, I've been thinking how terrible it'll be for the Democrats to make a deal now, this late. I mean, it's already past the deadline and they're still trying to negotiate with those retards and the retards are still demanding more.

fark em. fark em raw. Go over the goddamned cliff, Mr. President, and we'll fix the mess when we hit the ground.
 
2013-01-01 03:50:08 PM  

HeadLever: Corvus: You said their should be NO GROWTH.

Nope. I don't mind growth in nominal dollars as this is needed for inflation and population growth. The issue that we all have is with programs that exceed the growth of GDP which are Medicare, SS and Interest on the Debt.


May have something to do with a recession that is slow to recover due to huge government spending cuts and businesses that no longer create jobs despite record profits.
 
2013-01-01 03:51:09 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.

Because if FreeRepublic says it, it must be true, right? You really need to come up with something better than that.


Where did I say that? Oh yeah I didn't say that.

Normally you seem like a smart guy on here so not sure why you are wigging out on this so much. When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?
 
2013-01-01 03:51:14 PM  
Oh, House Republicans. Thanks for trying to commit harakiri AND give us those defense spending cuts we all needed. Now for you to put yourselves out on a limb voting against a tax cut tomorrow! Just finish sticking the knife in today.
 
2013-01-01 03:52:19 PM  
When does the new Congress convene?
 
2013-01-01 03:52:28 PM  

GAT_00: That may have something to do with the only proven way across decades of fiscal policy to cause job growth is government spending.


Yep, only government can bail us out.
 
2013-01-01 03:52:45 PM  

Corvus: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: Well if you think Obama caved in a gave everything to the GOP you should go on FreeRepublic and tell them because they sure as hell don't see it that way.

Because if FreeRepublic says it, it must be true, right? You really need to come up with something better than that.

Where did I say that? Oh yeah I didn't say that.

Normally you seem like a smart guy on here so not sure why you are wigging out on this so much. When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?


Well, to be fair, their idea of "winning" is amending the 13th and 14th Amendments, killing poors in the streets, and returning to pre-Sherman Antitrust Act America, so their perception of "winning" and "not winning" is something out of whack.
 
2013-01-01 03:52:50 PM  
Taegan Goddard  @politicalwire
Democratic Senate leaders say they will not take up bill amended by House Republicans: "We're done."http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/01/01/liberals_frustrated _with_obama_budget_deal.html...
 
2013-01-01 03:53:30 PM  

OneBrightMonkey: It would be worth it just for the Bill Hader sketches on SNL. Think "Stefon" in a suit and black wig.


As a side note, I was shocked at how bad Hader's Boehner impression was on a recent sketch (Where Obama felt bad at how Republicans were treating Boehner). And this impression is so simple: all you have to do is say everything as if you're Sylvester the cat from Looney Tunes.
 
2013-01-01 03:53:49 PM  

GAT_00: May have something to do with a recession that is slow to recover due to huge government spending cuts and businesses that no longer create jobs despite record profits.


Two serious questions:
1. What cuts do you attribute to the slow growth?
2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?
 
2013-01-01 03:54:36 PM  

Corvus: Where did I say that? Oh yeah I didn't say that.

Normally you seem like a smart guy on here so not sure why you are wigging out on this so much. When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?


1) If you aren't advocating the Freeper position as the truth, then why the fark did you bring it up? You seem to really enjoy non-sequitors.

2) The GOP is the party of perpetual victim-hood. They claim Obama uses mind-control to force gay illegal immigrants to take away their guns. I put zero stock into the veracity of their whining. The only thing stopping Obama from giving away everything is now the House GOP demanding even more. I measure Obama's successes by real standards, not whether GOP whining is at 11 or 11.
 
2013-01-01 03:55:53 PM  

Evil High Priest: And austerity measures are certain to put a stop to the slow ecovery we're enjoying now.


And a continuing exploding debt will make certain to put a stop to any prosperous future. Again, it is part of the issues we face. We need to find a way to both reign in spending and keep the economy moving (albeit slowly). These concepts are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
 
2013-01-01 03:55:58 PM  

GoldSpider: 1. What cuts do you attribute to the slow growth?


Consistant reductions in government employment has been a big hit:

thinkprogress.org

GoldSpider: 2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?


Increase demand.
 
2013-01-01 03:56:05 PM  

HeadLever: Yep, only government can bail us out.


When you spend 30 years systematically destroying the private sector's mechanism (unions) for keeping income inequality in check, there's no one left but the government to step in and attempt to do so.

The middle class is not overtaxed, it is underpaid.
 
2013-01-01 03:56:57 PM  

GAT_00: May have something to do with a recession that is slow to recover due to huge government spending cuts and businesses that no longer create jobs despite record profits.


One is sustainable and one is not. I'll let you figure out which is which.
 
2013-01-01 03:57:03 PM  

HeadLever: Corvus: You said their should be NO GROWTH.

Nope. I don't mind growth in nominal dollars as this is needed for inflation and population growth. The issue that we all have is with programs that exceed the growth of GDP which are Medicare, SS and Interest on the Debt.


Yes Medicare & SS is a seperate budget which currently have positive money (that are all IOUs because it was borrowed from the main budget). Something will need to be done in a DECADE OR TWO or wither raise the taxes on these or change the benefits.

Clinton wanted to use the Clinton surplus on shoring up these accounts. Bush however made tax cuts spent that money (1.6 trillion (and counting)) and then plunged our economy down the shiatter (600 billion) and started two expensive wars (over 1 trillion and counting).

Obama is bring most of these highly expensive Bush spending down but it will take time.
 
2013-01-01 03:57:41 PM  

GoldSpider: How do we encourage businesses to hire?


Taxcuts for the "job creators". Wealthy people like to invest willy-nilly in creating jobs for which there are no demand.
 
2013-01-01 03:57:55 PM  
Steve LaTourette (R-OH) went on CNN and said it was ridiculous to vote on a bill passed by "sleep-deprived octogenarians".

Please note, that vote would have been the last one LaTourette ever cast as a member of Congress, as he is retiring on Thursday.
 
2013-01-01 03:58:46 PM  

Gosling: Steve LaTourette (R-OH) went on CNN and said it was ridiculous to vote on a bill passed by "sleep-deprived octogenarians".

Please note, that vote would have been the last one LaTourette ever cast as a member of Congress, as he is retiring on Thursday.


Oh yeah, this compromise bill is dead in the water.
 
2013-01-01 03:59:15 PM  

Mighty Taternuts: Does that graph include the costs of wars during the Bush years. Remember they were off the budget and Obama put the, back in.


Yes, see how the area for the Defense spending bumps up and then falls during the present? From here it levels off according to the CBO models.
 
2013-01-01 03:59:39 PM  

HeadLever: Kuroshin: So it's been trending downward, after Bush II's spending spree?  imokaywiththis.jpg

Me too, but the trend is tenuous. Look at this bill for a perfect example. It actually contains spending increases. And if you look at Bush's years, Obama is far above his average (yes, it is not all of his fault, however, it is all our problem). See the overall spending pattern in the Chart 9 where it dips some before continuing to climb at an exponential pace? That is what I am worried about.


Oh yes, we are definitely at a crossroads in regards to spending v. GDP.  It's one of the reasons I'm more in favor of driving right over that "cliff", rather than go with some half-assed compromised spending and tax bill that does nothing but temporarily slow down the pending spike.  Not that the "cliff" is ideal - far from it - but addressing one item at a time, and forcing those petulant children in the House to grow the fark up will be best for us in the long-term.

Decreasing spending in the right areas, in the right way, is imperative - just as important as ending many of the tax discounts (most of which only aid those who will never know need in their lives).  Load balancing needs to happen, and it needs to happen years ago.
 
2013-01-01 03:59:59 PM  

The real fiscal cliff story: how the entire American political class convinced itself that unemployment is no longer worth thinking about.

- davidfrum (@davidfrum) January 1, 2013


Bingo.
 
2013-01-01 04:01:06 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: Where did I say that? Oh yeah I didn't say that.

Normally you seem like a smart guy on here so not sure why you are wigging out on this so much. When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?

1) If you aren't advocating the Freeper position as the truth, then why the fark did you bring it up? You seem to really enjoy non-sequitors.


When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?


I thought that covered it. Do I need to reword that or use all caps?
Never said it was true. I said: When people are saying something is the worst deal ever usually it means they did not win.

Can you point out where I said the person is telling the truth? because I don't see it, I only says "someone said something" never said it was the truth or not.
 
2013-01-01 04:01:08 PM  

TheOther: DamnYankees: Ross Douthat  @DouthatNYT
Seems like superdupermajority for Sen. bill could be emboldening House Rs. "If so many Dems voted 'yes' at 450K, why not try them at 750K?"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

An entirely unforeseeable consequence...


Love. It. Go ahead House R(etard)s...

25.media.tumblr.com

Then Obama drops the gun-to-the-head tax cuts and double-dog-dares you to say no.
 
2013-01-01 04:01:21 PM  
So to sum up, Republicans suck.

/ fark them up their stupid arses
 
2013-01-01 04:01:35 PM  

Corvus: Yes Medicare & SS is a seperate budget which currently have positive money (that are all IOUs because it was borrowed from the main budget).


?

SS is running at a deficit. Positive? Not sure what you are talking about here. The trust fund is not a pot of money but another sector of Government debt. Nothing positive about it.
 
2013-01-01 04:02:12 PM  
NBC reporting there were 40 GOPers who spoke out in their caucus meeting. 37 spoke against the plan.
 
2013-01-01 04:02:16 PM  

HeadLever: GAT_00: May have something to do with a recession that is slow to recover due to huge government spending cuts and businesses that no longer create jobs despite record profits.

One is sustainable and one is not. I'll let you figure out which is which.


Record profits.

What do I win?
 
2013-01-01 04:02:59 PM  

evil saltine: GoldSpider: How do we encourage businesses to hire?

Taxcuts for the "job creators". Wealthy people like to invest willy-nilly in creating jobs for which there are no demand.


And when a "job creator" buys things for their business or hires someone that money is then not taxed. Costs for businesses are deducted, so the whole argument is just plain stupid.
 
2013-01-01 04:03:40 PM  

HeadLever: Corvus: Yes Medicare & SS is a seperate budget which currently have positive money (that are all IOUs because it was borrowed from the main budget).

?

SS is running at a deficit. Positive? Not sure what you are talking about here. The trust fund is not a pot of money but another sector of Government debt. Nothing positive about it.


Eliminate the cap.

Solved.
 
2013-01-01 04:03:41 PM  

Kuroshin: It's one of the reasons I'm more in favor of driving right over that "cliff", rather than go with some half-assed compromised spending and tax bill that does nothing but temporarily slow down the pending spike.


This bill accelerates spending. It does nothing to slow it down. It may slow down the deficit some as the tax increases are in excess of the spending increase. however, that is marginal.

And with this, I am out of here. too much football to watch.
 
2013-01-01 04:04:43 PM  
Any other democracy on the planet, there are riots in the streets, and govenmental collapse. Here, we're all too busy talking about the Cardasian babby.

Also, to House Republicans:
i284.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-01 04:04:54 PM  

HeadLever: Mighty Taternuts: Does that graph include the costs of wars during the Bush years. Remember they were off the budget and Obama put the, back in.

Yes, see how the area for the Defense spending bumps up and then falls during the present? From here it levels off according to the CBO models.


I should have been more specific. Your second chart which just has the numbers and the Presidents in a bar chart, not lines.
 
2013-01-01 04:05:22 PM  

GoldSpider: GAT_00: May have something to do with a recession that is slow to recover due to huge government spending cuts and businesses that no longer create jobs despite record profits.

Two serious questions:

2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?


Businesses and consumers like stability. If half the government didn't regularly threaten to crash the entire economy then demand might be a bit higher and businesses might feel more comfortable bringing on new staff.

Oh, and make offshoring less attractive.
 
2013-01-01 04:06:32 PM  

Corvus: When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?

I thought that covered it. Do I need to reword that or use all caps?
Never said it was true. I said: When people are saying something is the worst deal ever usually it means they did not win.


Except when they whine no matter what because they are perpetual victims. Would all caps help? They ride the outrage-train 24/7. Every action taken by Obama, regardless of the outcome, is fit into the narrative that they are being screwed by his unconstitutional boner. Their outrage does not constitute a useful measure of their success or failure.

You've moved on from just being wrong to obnoxiously sneering in defiance of the obvious.
 
2013-01-01 04:06:40 PM  
I'm actually pretty worried at this point that this bill will pass the House with 190 Democrats and 30 Republicans, the Dems will essentially have passed this bill completely on their own.
 
2013-01-01 04:06:57 PM  

Smelly McUgly: Oh, House Republicans. Thanks for trying to commit harakiri AND give us those defense spending cuts we all needed. Now for you to put yourselves out on a limb voting against a tax cut tomorrow! Just finish sticking the knife in today.



i1191.photobucket.com

"You're about t' die of principles."
 
2013-01-01 04:08:05 PM  

DamnYankees: I'm actually pretty worried at this point that this bill will pass the House with 190 Democrats and 30 Republicans, the Dems will essentially have passed this bill completely on their own.


If it gets that far. Remember, in this Congress, a bill needs a majority of the majority to come up for a vote.
 
2013-01-01 04:08:46 PM  

russlar: DamnYankees: I'm actually pretty worried at this point that this bill will pass the House with 190 Democrats and 30 Republicans, the Dems will essentially have passed this bill completely on their own.

If it gets that far. Remember, in this Congress, a bill needs a majority of the majority to come up for a vote.


It doesn't 'need' that. It's an informal rule.
 
2013-01-01 04:08:58 PM  

DamnYankees: I'm actually pretty worried at this point that this bill will pass the House with 190 Democrats and 30 Republicans, the Dems will essentially have passed this bill completely on their own.


It won't. Because the GOP will amend it, meaning it has to go back to the Senate, and the Senate Dems have already said they're not coming back for any more votes. Amendments are tantamount to killing the bill.
 
2013-01-01 04:09:49 PM  

Gosling: DamnYankees: I'm actually pretty worried at this point that this bill will pass the House with 190 Democrats and 30 Republicans, the Dems will essentially have passed this bill completely on their own.

It won't. Because the GOP will amend it, meaning it has to go back to the Senate, and the Senate Dems have already said they're not coming back for any more votes. Amendments are tantamount to killing the bill.


I'm not sure how the amendment process works - if you have a majority for the bill as is, there's no way to stop it from being amended?
 
2013-01-01 04:11:20 PM  

HeadLever: Corvus: Yes Medicare & SS is a seperate budget which currently have positive money (that are all IOUs because it was borrowed from the main budget).

?

SS is running at a deficit. Positive? Not sure what you are talking about here. The trust fund is not a pot of money but another sector of Government debt. Nothing positive about it.


ummm


According to the Social Security Trustees, who oversee the program and report on its financial condition, program costs are expected to exceed non-interest income from 2011 onward. However, due to interest (earned at a 4.4% rate in 2011) the program will run an overall surplus that adds to the fund through the end of 2021.

. At the end of 2011, the Trust Fund contained (or alternatively, was owed) $2.7 trillion, up $69 billion from 2010.[1]


You are wrong. and it's funny because I know you being wrong about this point that you think was so important will not change your mind.

It has 2.7 trillion. Yes it will still need to be adjusted like I said in the future. The problem is government has been borrowing from it and Republicans don't want to give the money back because they want to steal it for tax cuts for the rich.
 
2013-01-01 04:11:38 PM  
I guess Cantor didn't want to wait until the ides of March to stab Boehner in the back.
 
2013-01-01 04:12:42 PM  

Gosling: DamnYankees: I'm actually pretty worried at this point that this bill will pass the House with 190 Democrats and 30 Republicans, the Dems will essentially have passed this bill completely on their own.

It won't. Because the GOP will amend it, meaning it has to go back to the Senate, and the Senate Dems have already said they're not coming back for any more votes. Amendments are tantamount to killing the bill.


And the finger-pointing can continue with no clear villains, because at that point both sides get to claim "we were TRYING to work with them, but they dragged their feet!"
 
2013-01-01 04:13:37 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: When people on the right are saying this is the worst deal ever and Obama got everything (which I do not agree with either), usually it doesn't mean they won, does it?

I thought that covered it. Do I need to reword that or use all caps?
Never said it was true. I said: When people are saying something is the worst deal ever usually it means they did not win.

Except when they whine no matter what because they are perpetual victims. Would all caps help? They ride the outrage-train 24/7. Every action taken by Obama, regardless of the outcome, is fit into the narrative that they are being screwed by his unconstitutional boner. Their outrage does not constitute a useful measure of their success or failure.

You've moved on from just being wrong to obnoxiously sneering in defiance of the obvious.


So you didn't make this comment:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: 1) If you aren't advocating the Freeper position as the truth, then why the fark did you bring it up? You seem to really enjoy non-sequitors.


Sorry I thought it was you. sorry I thought that "1)" meant it was a seperate point.
 
2013-01-01 04:13:40 PM  

Mentat: And here is Jonah Goldberg's response:  President Obama's effort to sabotage his own last-minute deal with the Senate reveals who is the real adult in the White House.


i78.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-01 04:15:01 PM  
www.exhausted.com

/maybe a cheerleader will help them
 
2013-01-01 04:15:13 PM  

DamnYankees: I'm actually pretty worried at this point that this bill will pass the House with 190 Democrats and 30 Republicans, the Dems will essentially have passed this bill completely on their own.


Well except for all those Republican senators who voted yes.
 
2013-01-01 04:16:05 PM  

DamnYankees: Gosling: DamnYankees: I'm actually pretty worried at this point that this bill will pass the House with 190 Democrats and 30 Republicans, the Dems will essentially have passed this bill completely on their own.

It won't. Because the GOP will amend it, meaning it has to go back to the Senate, and the Senate Dems have already said they're not coming back for any more votes. Amendments are tantamount to killing the bill.

I'm not sure how the amendment process works - if you have a majority for the bill as is, there's no way to stop it from being amended?


The House is on a tight schedule. If this thing isn't passed by the time the new Senate is seated (Midnight on Wed/Thurs IIRC) the Senate vote is void and it has to start all over. While it doesn't prevent the House GOP from amending it it does discourage them.
 
2013-01-01 04:17:09 PM  

Corvus: It has 2.7 trillion. Yes it will still need to be adjusted like I said in the future. The problem is government has been borrowing from it and Republicans don't want to give the money back because they want to steal it for tax cuts for the rich


I though SS was obligated by law to put the surplus into T-Bills (essentially lending it to the US general fund) to avoid taking all those trillions out of the economy. Wouldn't just leaving it in piles of cash in a vault be bad for the economy?
 
2013-01-01 04:18:08 PM  

GoldSpider: 2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?


Mandate a 30 hour work day? At some point we're going to have to accept that there are more workers out there than there is (full-time) work to do.
 
2013-01-01 04:18:14 PM  

Corvus: So you didn't make this comment:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: 1) If you aren't advocating the Freeper position as the truth, then why the fark did you bring it up? You seem to really enjoy non-sequitors.

Sorry I thought it was you. sorry I thought that "1)" meant it was a seperate point.


WTF are you talking about? Are you actually complaining that I managed to make both of your points look foolish at the same time?

Come up with something of substance, or admit you have nothing. Or just fade the fark away and let your failure get buried already. You have no leg to stand on. You've failed. You are now trying desperately to retreat into some obscure complaint of semantics. You aren't even defending your own bullshiat anymore.

It's over.
 
2013-01-01 04:18:35 PM  
Jamelle Bouie  @jbouie
RT@jesseltaylor: Pretty sure the House GOP caucus at this point is a glorified version of the gang from It's Always Sunny. Boehner is Dee.
 
2013-01-01 04:19:16 PM  

HeadLever: I'll disagree. When the interest on the debt eats up about 20% of the entire federal tax revenue (and remember how low interest rates are currently), it is a huge problem. only those that have no clue are the ones that pretend that this is not a problem. Just imagine what will happen to this cost when interest rates normalize. While i'll agree that it is not the biggest problem in the short term, it is THE most serious long term problems that we currently face as a country and that small changes right now have huge implications for future generations. Kicking that can down the road isn't going to work for much longer.



The current deficit is financed at (also current) low rates of interest. So really, this points supports the assertion made by the person you were responding too...the deficit is a problem for the future once the economy has stabilized. An economy that won't stabilize if you hamstring the sector that makes up roughly 25% of economic activity.
 
2013-01-01 04:19:39 PM  

LazarusLong42: Spending needs to continue in the short-term in order to get the economy back in order. Only after that's done--only after unemployment is back below ~6%, and growth is above ~2% yearly, should we think about cutting the deficit and debt. Why, you ask?

Because if we start cutting them now by imposing huge spending cuts, in the long term the debt will increase even more due to a continued sagging economy.


Really? Ask Japan how well that has worked out for them. They have spent ove a decade trying to spend their way out of multiple recessions with the only thing to show for it is a Naitonal Debt that is now over 200% of their GDP. During the 1990s alone Japan tried 10 fiscal stimulus packages totaling more than 100 trillion yen, and each failed to end the recession
 
2013-01-01 04:20:19 PM  

DamnYankees: Jamelle Bouie @jbouie
RT@jesseltaylor: Pretty sure the House GOP caucus at this point is a glorified version of the gang from It's Always Sunny. Boehner is Dee.


Ouch, that's harsh.
 
2013-01-01 04:20:31 PM  
THAT IS OBAMA'S MUSIC, BAH GAWD! AND HE'S BROUGHT STONE COLD! STONE COLD! STONE COLD! STUNNER! STUNNER! STUNNER! BAH GAWD KING! THIS IS A SLOBBERKNOCKER!
 
2013-01-01 04:22:35 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: So you didn't make this comment:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: 1) If you aren't advocating the Freeper position as the truth, then why the fark did you bring it up? You seem to really enjoy non-sequitors.

Sorry I thought it was you. sorry I thought that "1)" meant it was a seperate point.

WTF are you talking about? Are you actually complaining that I managed to make both of your points look foolish at the same time?

Come up with something of substance, or admit you have nothing. Or just fade the fark away and let your failure get buried already. You have no leg to stand on. You've failed. You are now trying desperately to retreat into some obscure complaint of semantics. You aren't even defending your own bullshiat anymore.

It's over.


I've been tying to follow this argument. It seems like you guys actually agree on the level of craziness of Free Republic users and their lack of touch with reality in general. Why are you arguing again?
 
2013-01-01 04:23:10 PM  

hasty ambush: During the 1990s alone Japan tried 10 fiscal stimulus packages totaling more than 100 trillion yen, and each failed to end the recession


Does Japan own the currency that the world's most important commodity is priced in? No? They don't have the US Dollar? Well, then maybe you shouldn't be f*cking comparing us to them. It makes about as much sense as when Republican Politicians say America will become the next Greece. Greece has a Reserve Currency? Really?

Until you people understand the US economy and the mechanisms we have, you should probably stop pretending you know what the f*ck you're talking about.
 
2013-01-01 04:23:12 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Corvus: So you didn't make this comment:

LouDobbsAwaaaay: 1) If you aren't advocating the Freeper position as the truth, then why the fark did you bring it up? You seem to really enjoy non-sequitors.

Sorry I thought it was you. sorry I thought that "1)" meant it was a seperate point.

WTF are you talking about? Are you actually complaining that I managed to make both of your points look foolish at the same time?

Come up with something of substance, or admit you have nothing. Or just fade the fark away and let your failure get buried already. You have no leg to stand on. You've failed. You are now trying desperately to retreat into some obscure complaint of semantics. You aren't even defending your own bullshiat anymore.

It's over.


What "bullshiat"? I don't know why you are wigging out on this and can't seem to have a rational discussion but I am just going to not respond anymore. Probably in a day or two your calm down about this issue.

I never once said people on FreeRepublic are truthful but it's something you argued I said and then you ignored that you had you said that. You are being irrational about this. So forget it.
 
2013-01-01 04:24:21 PM  

jocutus: I've been tying to follow this argument. It seems like you guys actually agree on the level of craziness of Free Republic users and their lack of touch with reality in general. Why are you arguing again?


He is pretending I made an argument that people on FR are truthful. Which is an argument I never actually made.
 
2013-01-01 04:24:43 PM  
Issa on CNN just implied that the Senate was drunk and partying when they passed the bill to avoid the fiscal cliff....This is what Obama is dealing with. Over the cliff we go!!!
 
2013-01-01 04:27:38 PM  

kingflower: Issa on CNN just implied that the Senate was drunk and partying when they passed the bill to avoid the fiscal cliff....This is what Obama is dealing with. Over the cliff we go!!!


even the "low information" voter is going to realize the house Republicans are a bunch of assholes.

They won't deal with Obama so they write their own bill. They can't pass that. Then the tell the Senate to make a bi-partisan bill for them (probably thinking it will fail and then they can blame it all on them) they actually do that but then they refuse that bill.
 
2013-01-01 04:28:43 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: GoldSpider: 2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?

Mandate a 30 hour work day? At some point we're going to have to accept that there are more workers out there than there is (full-time) work to do.


there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".
 
2013-01-01 04:29:11 PM  

kingflower: Issa on CNN just implied that the Senate was drunk and partying when they passed the bill to avoid the fiscal cliff....This is what Obama is dealing with. Over the cliff we go!!!


Technically we're already over and trying to pull on a parachute, but one of our hands keeps punching us in the face and complaining about how much we're spending on parachutes. It's been that way for 4 years now.
 
2013-01-01 04:29:20 PM  
Okay so the whole 'omfg cliff deadline' was a load of horseshiat, apparently...

So, when is this officially done and we're over the cliff and the cuts kick in?
 
2013-01-01 04:30:57 PM  

jocutus: kingflower: Issa on CNN just implied that the Senate was drunk and partying when they passed the bill to avoid the fiscal cliff....This is what Obama is dealing with. Over the cliff we go!!!

Technically we're already over and trying to pull on a parachute, but one of our hands keeps punching us in the face and complaining about how much we're spending on parachutes. It's been that way for 4 years now.


That's the greatest analogy in the history of the English language.
 
2013-01-01 04:31:16 PM  
i45.tinypic.com
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.
 
2013-01-01 04:31:16 PM  
There is no deal that the house GOP will like unless it's 100% what they want.
 
2013-01-01 04:31:44 PM  

machoprogrammer: THAT IS OBAMA'S MUSIC, BAH GAWD! AND HE'S BROUGHT STONE COLD! STONE COLD! STONE COLD! STUNNER! STUNNER! STUNNER! BAH GAWD KING! THIS IS A SLOBBERKNOCKER!


Dammit, you're making me post it again!

NEW YEARS JIM ROSS ASCII STYLE

THE MATCH!! SOMEONE STOP THE,-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;, MATCH!! SOMEONE STOP THE MATCH!! SOMEONE STOP
THE MATCH!! THE TEXAS RATTLE,-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;-,SNAKE STONE COLD STONE COLD STONE COLD STUN
NER STUNNER STUNNER STUNN;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;\ER STONE COLD STONE COLD STONE COLD BARBEQ
QUE SAUCE BAH GAWD KANG ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;\BAH _,,--,_GOD ALL THE AUDACITY THE UNORTHODOX
ENERGY COMING FR;;-,OM THE;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;\_,,-;;;;;;;;;;;;;, TEXAS RATTLESNAKE BAH GOD GET ME
A BEER PURE ENER;;;;;;;-,_GY ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;------;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;RAGING IN THE SOLD OUT ARENA HERE
IN MY HOME TOWN I"-;;;;;;;;;;;-,;;;;;;;--~'''__ . . . . . . . .|''~-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;N OKLAHOMA TONIGHT FOLKS ITS GON
NA BE A SLOBBERKN'-;;;;;;;;;;;;;;-'' . . . . . . . .,,,, . . ', : :';;;;;;;;;;;;;;;OCKER BAH GOD KANG...WHATS THIS?
WHAT THE HELL WHAT'-;;;;;;;;;;;' . ''___''- , . . . ,- -,, . . .\,-''-;;;;;;;;;;;;;'THE HELL ITS HHH HES RUNNING DOWN
FROM THE TITANTRON B'-;;;;;;;| . . ~''§''' ./ . -, . . . . . . . .-, ;;;;;;;;;;;-'AH GAWD WHATS HE DOING HERE BAH
GOD STUNNER STUNNER S''-;;;; . . . . . .,' . . .'-, . . . . . . .' ;;;;;;;;-''TUNNER BAH GOD KANG, REFEREE EARL
HEBNER JUST TOOK HIS PANT''| . . . . ,' '-'~-''~' '-, . . . . . . .;-~''S OFF GET ME A BEER AND WWF RAW COM
ES TO YOU TONIGHT FROM STA . . . ,' . _,,,---,, .'\ . . . . . CKER 2 PILLS insert slogan here ALRIGHT NOW WE
WERE BACK WAIT WHAT THE H'-, . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ELL ITS THE UNDERTAKER THE AMERICAN BAD AS
ASS BAH GOD BAH GOD I JUST P'-, . . . . . . . . . .,-' . . ,-;;;-,,ISSED MYSELF BAH GOD KANG GET ME A BE
ER BAH GOD WHAT A MONST_,,-;;;|, .''~-,,__,,-~'' . . .,-;;;;;;/;;;;;;;;--,,,_ER AND THE DUDLEY BOYZ WITH A TA
 
2013-01-01 04:32:13 PM  

TV's Vinnie: The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.


Almost every individual tea partier in Congress actually won their election. The GOP only lost 8 seats. This is part of the problem.
 
2013-01-01 04:32:44 PM  
I can't wait for that 27% cut to physician reimbursement. Lets see how the elderly like paying out of pocket for medical care once doctors stop accepting Medicare. You reap what you sow GOP.
 
2013-01-01 04:32:48 PM  

jocutus: Technically we're already over and trying to pull on a parachute, but one of our hands keeps punching us in the face and complaining about how much we're spending on parachutes. It's been that way for 4 years now.


[applause.gif]
 
2013-01-01 04:33:56 PM  

jocutus: kingflower: Issa on CNN just implied that the Senate was drunk and partying when they passed the bill to avoid the fiscal cliff....This is what Obama is dealing with. Over the cliff we go!!!

Technically we're already over and trying to pull on a parachute, but one of our hands keeps punching us in the face and complaining about how much we're spending on parachutes. It's been that way for 4 years now.


What is the other hand doing? Something involving oil and the anus?
 
2013-01-01 04:35:24 PM  

dumbobruni: there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".


LOL, how are "unfilled jobs" measured? Counting the number of job postings on companies' web sites and just assuming they're all real positions they're actually hiring for? Or accepting companies' pinky-swear that the shortages they're whining about are real?
 
2013-01-01 04:35:46 PM  

DamnYankees: TV's Vinnie: The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Almost every individual tea partier in Congress actually won their election. The GOP only lost 8 seats. This is part of the problem.


also notice that Akin and Mourdock lost due to their stances on women's issues, not economics.
 
2013-01-01 04:36:00 PM  
I love how the House feed still shows them as in recess.
 
2013-01-01 04:36:13 PM  
Matt Yglesias  @mattyglesias
Senate GOP is lawful evil, House GOP is chaotic evil.
 
2013-01-01 04:36:49 PM  

dumbobruni: DamnYankees: TV's Vinnie: The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Almost every individual tea partier in Congress actually won their election. The GOP only lost 8 seats. This is part of the problem.

also notice that Akin and Mourdock lost due to their stances on women's issues, not economics.


Also a very good point.
 
2013-01-01 04:37:02 PM  

kingflower: Issa on CNN just implied that the Senate was drunk and partying when they passed the bill to avoid the fiscal cliff....This is what Obama is dealing with. Over the cliff we go!!!


It was New Year's Eve. Of course there would be a party, but at least the Senate comes across like they're trying to do some work.

By 6 o'clock, Boehner was on a barstool working on his 9th whiskey sour of the day and Cantor was driving around looking for a 16-year old boy, a Reagan mask, and dreaming of things that would give Larry Flynt nightmares.
 
2013-01-01 04:37:38 PM  

DamnYankees: Matt Yglesias  @mattyglesias
Senate GOP is lawful evil, House GOP is chaotic evil.


Does this mean that Obama is a Paladin?
 
2013-01-01 04:39:11 PM  

kingflower: jocutus: kingflower: Issa on CNN just implied that the Senate was drunk and partying when they passed the bill to avoid the fiscal cliff....This is what Obama is dealing with. Over the cliff we go!!!

Technically we're already over and trying to pull on a parachute, but one of our hands keeps punching us in the face and complaining about how much we're spending on parachutes. It's been that way for 4 years now.

What is the other hand doing? Something involving oil and the anus?


picking out navel lint
 
2013-01-01 04:39:48 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: dumbobruni: there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".

LOL, how are "unfilled jobs" measured? Counting the number of job postings on companies' web sites and just assuming they're all real positions they're actually hiring for? Or accepting companies' pinky-swear that the shortages they're whining about are real?


BLS looks at open job listings. its actually not 3 million.....its 3.6 million.

however, that may be understated. the IT industry is claiming that 1.7 million jobs in that sector alone are unfilled.

Link
 
2013-01-01 04:42:46 PM  

Corvus: There is no deal that the house GOP will like unless it's 100% what they want.


They don't even know what that is or they would have passed their own bill already.
 
2013-01-01 04:44:13 PM  

Infernalist: DamnYankees: Matt Yglesias  @mattyglesias
Senate GOP is lawful evil, House GOP is chaotic evil.

Does this mean that Obama is a Paladin?


Obama is Chaotic Good. Tries to do great stuff but never afraid to troll the other side (or break with his own side) when the necessity arises.
 
2013-01-01 04:45:22 PM  
"NewportBarGuy

hasty ambush: "


I believe that someone just had their ass handed to them. That would be you, hasty ambush.....

//lolol
 
2013-01-01 04:45:49 PM  

LazarusLong42: Infernalist: DamnYankees: Matt Yglesias  @mattyglesias
Senate GOP is lawful evil, House GOP is chaotic evil.

Does this mean that Obama is a Paladin?

Obama is Chaotic Good. Tries to do great stuff but never afraid to troll the other side (or break with his own side) when the necessity arises.


Biden would fit that same category.
 
2013-01-01 04:49:16 PM  

LazarusLong42: Infernalist: DamnYankees: Matt Yglesias  @mattyglesias
Senate GOP is lawful evil, House GOP is chaotic evil.

Does this mean that Obama is a Paladin?

Obama is Chaotic Good. Tries to do great stuff but never afraid to troll the other side (or break with his own side) when the necessity arises.


If we're rigging up a political alignment chart, the only Lawful Good I can think of is Granny D
 
2013-01-01 04:49:57 PM  

LazarusLong42: Infernalist: DamnYankees: Matt Yglesias  @mattyglesias
Senate GOP is lawful evil, House GOP is chaotic evil.

Does this mean that Obama is a Paladin?

Obama is Chaotic Good. Tries to do great stuff but never afraid to troll the other side (or break with his own side) when the necessity arises.


I disagree, Obama isn't anti-authoritarian enough to be chaotic. neutral-good perhaps. I might call good ol Joe Biden as chaotic-good. Bill Clinton for sure.
 
2013-01-01 04:51:18 PM  

hasty ambush: LazarusLong42: Spending needs to continue in the short-term in order to get the economy back in order. Only after that's done--only after unemployment is back below ~6%, and growth is above ~2% yearly, should we think about cutting the deficit and debt. Why, you ask?

Because if we start cutting them now by imposing huge spending cuts, in the long term the debt will increase even more due to a continued sagging economy.

Really? Ask Japan how well that has worked out for them. They have spent ove a decade trying to spend their way out of multiple recessions with the only thing to show for it is a Naitonal Debt that is now over 200% of their GDP. During the 1990s alone Japan tried 10 fiscal stimulus packages totaling more than 100 trillion yen, and each failed to end the recession


Or Japan only got out of the Lost Decade by following stimulus programs. Big article on the economist that suggested it in the New York Times Magazine last weekend. Not that reading or facts are important to conservative "thinkers"
 
2013-01-01 04:55:10 PM  

dumbobruni: stiletto_the_wise: GoldSpider: 2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?

Mandate a 30 hour work day? At some point we're going to have to accept that there are more workers out there than there is (full-time) work to do.

there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".


It's almost as if they might have to *gasp* invest in their workforce and train new hires on the job. You know, like they used to do.
 
2013-01-01 04:55:18 PM  

neongoats: LazarusLong42: Infernalist: DamnYankees: Matt Yglesias  @mattyglesias
Senate GOP is lawful evil, House GOP is chaotic evil.

Does this mean that Obama is a Paladin?

Obama is Chaotic Good. Tries to do great stuff but never afraid to troll the other side (or break with his own side) when the necessity arises.

I disagree, Obama isn't anti-authoritarian enough to be chaotic. neutral-good perhaps. I might call good ol Joe Biden as chaotic-good. Bill Clinton for sure.


I put Obama at true neutral, with an emphasis on preservation and continuity, since he's essentially an America Druid. Biden's CG, Hillary is LN.
 
2013-01-01 04:57:06 PM  
Brit Hume @brithume
Appears the House GOP's pie-in-the-sky caucus will blow up the deal, leaving new higher tax rates in place and assuring Rs get all blame.

Guess they've lost Fox News.
 
2013-01-01 04:57:51 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-01 04:58:16 PM  
So where are we at with this thing. Has the house voted? Are they still having "debate" about the bill? Currently giving reach arounds to the Tea Party Caucus? I need a sitrep people..
 
2013-01-01 04:58:22 PM  

ariseatex: Brit Hume @brithume
Appears the House GOP's pie-in-the-sky caucus will blow up the deal, leaving new higher tax rates in place and assuring Rs get all blame.

Guess they've lost Fox News.


Wow. When they've lost Fox News, they've _lost_.
 
2013-01-01 04:59:09 PM  

5 star chef of tv dinners: So where are we at with this thing. Has the house voted? Are they still having "debate" about the bill? Currently giving reach arounds to the Tea Party Caucus? I need a sitrep people..


No, yes, and dear God I hope not.
 
2013-01-01 04:59:58 PM  

ariseatex: Brit Hume @brithume
Appears the House GOP's pie-in-the-sky caucus will blow up the deal, leaving new higher tax rates in place and assuring Rs get all blame.

Guess they've lost Fox News.


I don't watch fox. Is Hume one of the neo-con drones, or is he like Smith and actually retains most of his sanity?
 
2013-01-01 05:00:10 PM  

stoli n coke: kingflower: Issa on CNN just implied that the Senate was drunk and partying when they passed the bill to avoid the fiscal cliff....This is what Obama is dealing with. Over the cliff we go!!!

It was New Year's Eve. Of course there would be a party, but at least the Senate comes across like they're trying to do some work.

By 6 o'clock, Boehner was on a barstool working on his 9th whiskey sour of the day and Cantor was driving around looking for a 16-year old boy, a Reagan mask, and dreaming of things that would give Larry Flynt nightmares.


Boehner strikes me as a Cutty Sark man. I'd bet there's a "lost" episode of To Catch a Predator where Cantor gets to chat with Chris Hansen.
 
2013-01-01 05:00:10 PM  

ariseatex: Brit Hume @brithume
Appears the House GOP's pie-in-the-sky caucus will blow up the deal, leaving new higher tax rates in place and assuring Rs get all blame.

Guess they've lost Fox News.


Wow... Just wow.
 
2013-01-01 05:02:08 PM  
If the GOP is serious about trying to cut a deal and the Tea Derpers are fouling it up...

Perhaps we'll see a situation with the new Congress with the sane remnants of the GOP in the House working with the Democrats to ostracize and marginalize the Tea Derper caucus.
 
2013-01-01 05:02:35 PM  

Zeno-25: dumbobruni: stiletto_the_wise: GoldSpider: 2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?

Mandate a 30 hour work day? At some point we're going to have to accept that there are more workers out there than there is (full-time) work to do.

there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".

It's almost as if they might have to *gasp* invest in their workforce and train new hires on the job. You know, like they used to do.


Well, that's a slippery slope that might lead to expectations of benefits and a wage higher than your average fruit picker. Next thing you know, people will want time off for vacations or family emergencies.

Easier just to write a fakery job posting custom tailored for the h1b candidate you already picked out and started training on the DL. Stack ten of them in an apartment making frenchfry wages, let them get deported when you are done.

Easy peasy.
 
2013-01-01 05:04:03 PM  

Infernalist: ariseatex: Brit Hume @brithume
Appears the House GOP's pie-in-the-sky caucus will blow up the deal, leaving new higher tax rates in place and assuring Rs get all blame.

Guess they've lost Fox News.

I don't watch fox. Is Hume one of the neo-con drones, or is he like Smith and actually retains most of his sanity?


Neocon drone. Shepard Smith is the anomaly.
 
2013-01-01 05:04:11 PM  
How can a party that is the victim 100% of the time be trusted to govern? Can someone name a single negative thing for which the GOP has accepted blame? Anything? I can rattle off a list of admitted failures on the Democratic side in case anyone wants to bring that weak sauce as a reply.
 
2013-01-01 05:05:00 PM  

quizzical: jocutus: Technically we're already over and trying to pull on a parachute, but one of our hands keeps punching us in the face and complaining about how much we're spending on parachutes. It's been that way for 4 years now.

[applause.gif]


Nice one!
 
2013-01-01 05:05:59 PM  

ariseatex: Brit Hume @brithume
Appears the House GOP's pie-in-the-sky caucus will blow up the deal, leaving new higher tax rates in place and assuring Rs get all blame.

Guess they've lost Fox News.



House Republicans have basically painted themselves into a corner. They pandered to the base with two things, taxes are too high and Obama bad. Now, they've encountered a situation where A.) They do something that Obama agrees with, or B.) They go on record for allowing or voting in favor of the tax rates going up.

They're in a can't win situation, so they're stalling the vote, hoping the problem will go away on its own.
 
2013-01-01 05:08:57 PM  

Corvus: And to prove my point that those on the right hate that the GOP is voting for this, look at this thread.


i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-01 05:09:15 PM  

stoli n coke: ariseatex: Brit Hume @brithume
Appears the House GOP's pie-in-the-sky caucus will blow up the deal, leaving new higher tax rates in place and assuring Rs get all blame.

Guess they've lost Fox News.


House Republicans have basically painted themselves into a corner. They pandered to the base with two things, taxes are too high and Obama bad. Now, they've encountered a situation where A.) They do something that Obama agrees with, or B.) They go on record for allowing or voting in favor of the tax rates going up.

They're in a can't win situation, so they're stalling the vote, hoping the problem will go away on its own.


My brother tried that when we were young and he smashed my head on the corner of the bathroom counter, creating a huge gash. No need to tell Mom & Dad, we'll just cover it up and it'll go away! he said.

At least my brother had an excuse. He was 11. What's the House's?
 
Ab3
2013-01-01 05:09:38 PM  

neongoats: LazarusLong42: Infernalist: DamnYankees: Matt Yglesias  @mattyglesias
Senate GOP is lawful evil, House GOP is chaotic evil.

Does this mean that Obama is a Paladin?

Obama is Chaotic Good. Tries to do great stuff but never afraid to troll the other side (or break with his own side) when the necessity arises.

I disagree, Obama isn't anti-authoritarian enough to be chaotic. neutral-good perhaps. I might call good ol Joe Biden as chaotic-good. Bill Clinton for sure.


Between the time
when Facebook drowned MySpace,
and the rise of the sons of Honey Boo Boo,
there was an age undreamed of.
And onto this, Obama,
destined to wear the jeweled crown
of America upon a troubled brow.
Only reading the FARK Politics tab,
can tell thee of his saga.
Let me tell you of the days of high Derpventure!
 
2013-01-01 05:10:39 PM  

LazarusLong42: Obama is Chaotic Good. Tries to do great stuff but never afraid to troll the other side (or break with his own side) when the necessity arises.


That's not Chaotic Good. You're thinking of Neutral Good.
 
2013-01-01 05:12:38 PM  

russlar: Wow. When they've lost Fox News, they've _lost_.


Fox News uses the GOP. The GOP only thinks they use Fox.
 
2013-01-01 05:12:50 PM  

dumbobruni: stiletto_the_wise: GoldSpider: 2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?

Mandate a 30 hour work day? At some point we're going to have to accept that there are more workers out there than there is (full-time) work to do.

there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".


Because hr people write the position dedcription and noone wants to train.

Look at some of the qualifications, it boggles the mind.
 
2013-01-01 05:15:27 PM  

dumbobruni: there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".


People have to have certain skill sets and they have to live where the jobs that require those skill sets are. That's a lot.
 
2013-01-01 05:16:11 PM  

DORMAMU: dumbobruni: stiletto_the_wise: GoldSpider: 2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?

Mandate a 30 hour work day? At some point we're going to have to accept that there are more workers out there than there is (full-time) work to do.

there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".

Because hr people write the position dedcription and noone wants to train.

Look at some of the qualifications, it boggles the mind.


Entry-level position requires 5 years experience.
 
2013-01-01 05:16:32 PM  

DamnYankees: Consistant reductions in government employment has been a big hit:

thinkprogress.org


I'm skeptical that government make-work jobs are the solution.

DamnYankees: Increase demand.


This answer is thin on details.
 
2013-01-01 05:17:46 PM  

DamnYankees: TV's Vinnie: The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Almost every individual tea partier in Congress actually won their election. The GOP only lost 8 seats. This is part of the problem.


upload.wikimedia.org
Alan "Evil Urkel"West isn't coming back.

upload.wikimedia.org
Alan Grayson is.
 
2013-01-01 05:18:52 PM  

GoldSpider: I'm skeptical that government make-work jobs are the solution.


I don't really care what pejoratives you are skeptical about.
 
2013-01-01 05:21:35 PM  
I work at a place that has a "skill gap." They think they can hire people with useful degrees for 14 bucks an hour. Funnily enough, once the economy started getting better, the number of applicants dropped like a stone, and all us suckered into this job to pay for our student loans now have decent resumes and skills.

They're getting really close to having a massive skill gap.
 
2013-01-01 05:24:23 PM  

russlar: DORMAMU: dumbobruni: stiletto_the_wise: GoldSpider: 2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?

Mandate a 30 hour work day? At some point we're going to have to accept that there are more workers out there than there is (full-time) work to do.

there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".

Because hr people write the position dedcription and noone wants to train.

Look at some of the qualifications, it boggles the mind.

Entry-level position requires 5 years experience.


Craigslist Ad: Janitorial assistant, must have own car, must be willing to work varying shifts, 20 hours per week, $8.80 per hour...

/ saw that one last year
// who knows if it's legitimate? it was on Craigslist, so it there could be some 'trollin...
 
2013-01-01 05:24:30 PM  
Looks like House GOP just started another conference five minutes ago.

Based on what I'm hearing on the local (DC) news, here's how I expect it to go down:

1) House refuses to have an up-or-down vote on the Senate version, passes amendments instead, then passes amended bill.
2) Senate has already gone home, and Reid has said they will not return until the new session begins Jan. 3rd.
3) Republicans will then try to blame Reid for "going over the fiscal cliff," as he "refused to call the Senate in session to hear the House passed version."
 
2013-01-01 05:24:38 PM  

Ab3: neongoats: LazarusLong42: Infernalist: DamnYankees: Matt Yglesias  @mattyglesias
Senate GOP is lawful evil, House GOP is chaotic evil.

Does this mean that Obama is a Paladin?

Obama is Chaotic Good. Tries to do great stuff but never afraid to troll the other side (or break with his own side) when the necessity arises.

I disagree, Obama isn't anti-authoritarian enough to be chaotic. neutral-good perhaps. I might call good ol Joe Biden as chaotic-good. Bill Clinton for sure.

Between the time
when Facebook drowned MySpace,
and the rise of the sons of Honey Boo Boo,
there was an age undreamed of.
And onto this, Obama,
destined to wear the jeweled crown
of America upon a troubled brow.
Only reading the FARK Politics tab,
can tell thee of his saga.
Let me tell you of the days of high Derpventure!


The planar barrier will turn and tear asunder,
Caused by those who seek to protect it in name only.
From this breach shall come that which even the abyss fears,
Under the distraction of Kardashia unnoticed.
Madness shall befall many of man,
Blood shall be publicaly spilled.
As he shakes his mortal shell,
The Obamalisque will sow his seed of chaos in the gaurdians of the realm!
 
2013-01-01 05:29:28 PM  
House Republicans, you only had one job, just one, and you all cannot even do that!? The feral cats behind my house could do this job better than you!
 
2013-01-01 05:29:28 PM  

ariseatex: Looks like House GOP just started another conference five minutes ago.

Based on what I'm hearing on the local (DC) news, here's how I expect it to go down:

1) House refuses to have an up-or-down vote on the Senate version, passes amendments instead, then passes amended bill.
2) Senate has already gone home, and Reid has said they will not return until the new session begins Jan. 3rd.
3) Republicans will then try to blame Reid for "going over the fiscal cliff," as he "refused to call the Senate in session to hear the House passed version."


This after Boehner kicked the can up tot he Senate, after his own bill failed to even come up for a vote. Man has chutzpah, I'll give him that.
 
2013-01-01 05:31:36 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Mentat: Oh good grief, this isn't a debate class, it's politics.  I'm sorry you're mad that there's now only a 98% percent chance that you'll end up getting exactly what you want, but that's life.

Nice to see the Obama cheerleaders retreating to their home-position. "Stop complaining! We're trying to make this look good!"


So, the Republicans are blowing up the deal (just like I said they would) and you're going to get exactly what you want (just like I said you would) and there will be no political cost to Obama for compromising (just like I said there wouldn't) and you're still whining.  Imagine that.
 
2013-01-01 05:32:17 PM  

TV's Vinnie: DamnYankees: TV's Vinnie: The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Almost every individual tea partier in Congress actually won their election. The GOP only lost 8 seats. This is part of the problem.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 398x599]
Alan "Evil Urkel"West isn't coming back.

[upload.wikimedia.org image 398x599]
Alan Grayson is.


is his head really that big?
 
2013-01-01 05:33:50 PM  

jocutus: kingflower: Issa on CNN just implied that the Senate was drunk and partying when they passed the bill to avoid the fiscal cliff....This is what Obama is dealing with. Over the cliff we go!!!

Technically we're already over and trying to pull on a parachute, but one of our hands keeps punching us in the face and complaining about how much we're spending on parachutes. It's been that way for 4 years now.


Sympathizes:

i1126.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-01 05:35:41 PM  

DamnYankees: I don't really care what pejoratives you are skeptical about.


Then your "solutions" are simply declarative statements you wish to become reality.

I support hiring all the people the government needs to carry out its responsibilities.
 
2013-01-01 05:36:42 PM  
Republicans are economic terrorists.
 
2013-01-01 05:37:38 PM  

russlar: This after Boehner kicked the can up tot he Senate, after his own bill failed to even come up for a vote. Man has chutzpah, I'll give him that.


It's less chutzpah and more saving-his-Speakership, IMO.

somedude210: is his head really that big?


Yep. And you know what they say about big heads.

/big hats
 
2013-01-01 05:44:31 PM  
The Teahadists are going to destroy a lot of lives with this shiat.
 
2013-01-01 05:44:55 PM  
Thanks, Tea Party! I look forward to the new session, where you get to vote against a tax cut for the middle-class, a Medicare provision to defer costs for doctors, and a farm bill provision to lower milk prices one after the other.

Let's just hope that people worse off than me aren't too harmed for too long by your dickshiattery.
 
2013-01-01 05:49:58 PM  

ariseatex: It's less chutzpah and more saving-his-Speakership, IMO.


This is already dead. At this point Cantor is just waiting for the rest of the blood to drip out of the knife wound in the back.
 
2013-01-01 05:51:38 PM  

russlar: DORMAMU: dumbobruni: stiletto_the_wise: GoldSpider: 2. How do we encourage businesses to hire?

Mandate a 30 hour work day? At some point we're going to have to accept that there are more workers out there than there is (full-time) work to do.

there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".

Because hr people write the position dedcription and noone wants to train.

Look at some of the qualifications, it boggles the mind.

Entry-level position requires 5 years experience.


In a 2-year-old version of the technology.
 
2013-01-01 05:51:55 PM  
Anyone know if NSF funding will be affected by these austerity measures?
 
2013-01-01 05:54:56 PM  
This is what we get for electing lawyers, car salesmen, and bartenders to congress: A relentless self-farking.
 
2013-01-01 05:57:56 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: This is what we get for electing lawyers, car salesmen, and bartenders to congress: A relentless self-farking.


At least they are getting off the high horse....

/get that image out of your head.
 
2013-01-01 05:58:21 PM  
So now the Republicans have painted themselves in a corner. They made it so raising any income taxes is treason to their ideology and then forced themselves into a situation where they will have to compromise on raising income taxes.

They didn't even just pain themselves in a corner, they painted themselves in a corner a then started a time bomb in that corner.
 
2013-01-01 05:59:22 PM  

coco ebert: Anyone know if NSF funding will be affected by these austerity measures?


Not directly, but depending on how long the "budget sequestration" goes into effect, NSF and the like would have to limit the number of grants they provide.
 
2013-01-01 06:01:41 PM  

Somacandra: dumbobruni: there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".

People have to have certain skill sets and they have to live where the jobs that require those skill sets are. That's a lot.


or companies could offer more money.

from the noted commies at Wharton Business School, regarding those 600,000 unfilled manufacturing jobs:

Despite the dire outlook, some say there's a relatively simple way to defuse the sector's talent bomb. Peter Cappelli, for one, likens manufacturers' talent complaints to shopping for a car, not finding the vehicle you want within your budget-and then concluding there's a car shortage. "If you want to get people into a particular field, you might start by paying them more," says Mr. Cappelli, director of the Center for Human Resources at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School. "Or make the training more attractive and easier to do."

Link
 
2013-01-01 06:02:04 PM  

Corvus: So now the Republicans have painted themselves in a corner. They made it so raising any income taxes is treason to their ideology and then forced themselves into a situation where they will have to compromise on raising income taxes.

They didn't even just pain themselves in a corner, they painted themselves in a corner a then started a time bomb in that corner.


Right now the House GOP isn't even talking about the tax issue. Grover Norquist even said he'd vote for the Senate bill yesterday.

Any amendments the House makes will most likely only add spending cuts.
 
2013-01-01 06:03:16 PM  
Anyone got a quick summary for someone who wasn't paying attention yesterday or today?

Tax cuts for all but 400k/450k + and no spending cuts for 2 months (isn't that the same time as the debt ceiling issue?). That's it?
 
2013-01-01 06:04:53 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: ariseatex: Brit Hume @brithume
Appears the House GOP's pie-in-the-sky caucus will blow up the deal, leaving new higher tax rates in place and assuring Rs get all blame.

Guess they've lost Fox News.

Wow... Just wow.


This...wow, if they've lost Fox News they've really put themselves in a very very very very small corner with no way out.
 
2013-01-01 06:06:48 PM  

jst3p: Anyone got a quick summary for someone who wasn't paying attention yesterday or today?

Tax cuts for all but 400k/450k + and no spending cuts for 2 months (isn't that the same time as the debt ceiling issue?). That's it?



Update: Nothing for no one. We ain't getting sh*t outta the House.
 
2013-01-01 06:07:53 PM  

TV's Vinnie: [i45.tinypic.com image 338x338]
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.


There can't possibly be enough of them to prevent this from passing. The House doesn't get to filibuster. If nearly all Dems vote yes, they'll only need, what, 30 or 40 out of 200some Republicans to join them?
 
2013-01-01 06:10:29 PM  

Tommy Moo: TV's Vinnie: [i45.tinypic.com image 338x338]
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.

There can't possibly be enough of them to prevent this from passing. The House doesn't get to filibuster. If nearly all Dems vote yes, they'll only need, what, 30 or 40 out of 200some Republicans to join them?


Boehner's unofficially bound by the "Hastert Rule," which is that a GOP Speaker should not bring a bill up for vote unless it is supported by a majority of GOP reps.

If Boehner breaks the Hastert Rule, he's done as Speaker come Thursday.

Now, he could say "The political process and getting things done are both more important than unofficial rules or my Speakership, so I'm bringing the bill up for a vote anyway."

But, this is Boehner we're talking about.
 
2013-01-01 06:12:49 PM  

TV's Vinnie: [i45.tinypic.com image 338x338]
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.


Seriously, your scorched earth theory is stupid.
They actually believe they are doing the right thing. Yes, they are that dumb.
 
2013-01-01 06:14:16 PM  
The House Republicans think Americans will be fooled by this game of musical chairs.
 
2013-01-01 06:14:57 PM  

ariseatex: Tommy Moo: TV's Vinnie: [i45.tinypic.com image 338x338]
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.

There can't possibly be enough of them to prevent this from passing. The House doesn't get to filibuster. If nearly all Dems vote yes, they'll only need, what, 30 or 40 out of 200some Republicans to join them?

Boehner's unofficially bound by the "Hastert Rule," which is that a GOP Speaker should not bring a bill up for vote unless it is supported by a majority of GOP reps.

If Boehner breaks the Hastert Rule, he's done as Speaker come Thursday.

Now, he could say "The political process and getting things done are both more important than unofficial rules or my Speakership, so I'm bringing the bill up for a vote anyway."

But, this is Boehner we're talking about.


I see.

Well, whatever. I'm fine with sequestration. We need the revenue. I was ok with just the middle class tax cut, but if this is what it is, then let the GOP raise taxes on everyone. And then watch them wring their hands as their own stupid bill takes an executioner's axe to a few heads of the Pentagon hydra.
 
2013-01-01 06:15:15 PM  
Apparently the GOP is whipping right now for votes on an amended bill.
 
2013-01-01 06:15:51 PM  

red5ish: The House Republicans think Americans will be fooled by this game of musical chairs.


Most of their base will be.
 
2013-01-01 06:15:52 PM  

red5ish: The House Republicans think Americans will be fooled by this game of musical chairs.


It doesn't matter. They have already shown that they can hold a majority of the House whether people vote for them or not.
 
2013-01-01 06:17:13 PM  

red5ish: The House Republicans think Americans will be fooled by this game of musical chairs.


When haven't they?
 
2013-01-01 06:18:45 PM  

DamnYankees: Apparently the GOP is whipping right now for votes on an amended bill.


And Reid just announced that the Senate is adjourned for the day. Didn't hear anything about tomorrow, though. So if an amended bill is passed by the House today, there's still a nonzero chance that the Senate could pass it tomorrow. There's also a nonzero chance that I'll spend tonight in a mad passionate threesome with Anderson Cooper, but I'm not holding my breath on either.
 
2013-01-01 06:20:01 PM  
In the end it really isn't the fault of these teatards in congress.  It's the mongloid, mouth-breathers in their districts.  Thanks assholes.  You farked the country.
 
2013-01-01 06:20:58 PM  

ariseatex: Tommy Moo: TV's Vinnie: [i45.tinypic.com image 338x338]
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.

There can't possibly be enough of them to prevent this from passing. The House doesn't get to filibuster. If nearly all Dems vote yes, they'll only need, what, 30 or 40 out of 200some Republicans to join them?

Boehner's unofficially bound by the "Hastert Rule," which is that a GOP Speaker should not bring a bill up for vote unless it is supported by a majority of GOP reps.

If Boehner breaks the Hastert Rule, he's done as Speaker come Thursday.

Now, he could say "The political process and getting things done are both more important than unofficial rules or my Speakership, so I'm bringing the bill up for a vote anyway."

But, this is Boehner we're talking about.


He doesn't have the balls for that. No way it happens.
 
2013-01-01 06:21:56 PM  

DamnYankees: Apparently the GOP is whipping right now for votes on an amended bill.


The senate should jam it up there ass.
 
2013-01-01 06:22:28 PM  

ariseatex: DamnYankees: Apparently the GOP is whipping right now for votes on an amended bill.

And Reid just announced that the Senate is adjourned for the day. Didn't hear anything about tomorrow, though. So if an amended bill is passed by the House today, there's still a nonzero chance that the Senate could pass it tomorrow. There's also a nonzero chance that I'll spend tonight in a mad passionate threesome with Anderson Cooper, but I'm not holding my breath on either.


who's the third? I can't assess the likelihood of your situation without that info
 
2013-01-01 06:23:06 PM  
Serious question here:

If Boehner couldn't get a majority of Republicans to support his BS only tax people over 1 million bill why the fark did he think a bi-partisan senate bill would do better?


Didn't he say he would give it a vote in the house if the senate passed one? Now he is going back on his word because the Republicans don't support it?

What the fark did he think was going to happen? That the Republicans who hated the BS GOP bill were going to support the bi-partisan bill?

Or was this all a charade so he hoped the senate would fail and he could blame them? Didn't he say he would put it up for a vote even if the majority of republicans didn't support it? If not why did he have everyone waste their time?
 
2013-01-01 06:23:37 PM  
How many seats did the Ds pick up?  Maybe this can pass once they're sworn in.  F the GOP.
 
2013-01-01 06:25:48 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: In the end it really isn't the fault of these teatards in congress.  It's the mongloid, mouth-breathers in their districts.  Thanks assholes.  You farked the country.


If we want to blame low-information voters (and we should) let's also thank Fox News, the Koch brothers, Rush, and the myriad of AM Radio Talk Show hosts who make their living misinforming the electorate. Without them the tea baggers wouldn't have been anything more than the disaffected fringe on the right.
 
2013-01-01 06:26:07 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: How many seats did the Ds pick up?  Maybe this can pass once they're sworn in.  F the GOP.


The problem is that no bill goes up for a vote unless a majority of Republicans want it to. So it doesn't matter how many Democrats are in.
 
2013-01-01 06:26:58 PM  

red5ish: Waxing_Chewbacca: In the end it really isn't the fault of these teatards in congress.  It's the mongloid, mouth-breathers in their districts.  Thanks assholes.  You farked the country.

If we want to blame low-information voters (and we should) let's also thank Fox News, the Koch brothers, Rush, and the myriad of AM Radio Talk Show hosts who make their living misinforming the electorate. Without them the tea baggers wouldn't have been anything more than the disaffected fringe on the right.


Actually I would say low information voters are much much better than those you mention.
 
2013-01-01 06:28:54 PM  

HeadLever: GAT_00: May have something to do with a recession that is slow to recover due to huge government spending cuts and businesses that no longer create jobs despite record profits.

One is sustainable and one is not. I'll let you figure out which is which.


That had nothing to do with what I asked you.
 
2013-01-01 06:29:42 PM  

red5ish: Waxing_Chewbacca: In the end it really isn't the fault of these teatards in congress.  It's the mongloid, mouth-breathers in their districts.  Thanks assholes.  You farked the country.

If we want to blame low-information voters (and we should) let's also thank Fox News, the Koch brothers, Rush, and the myriad of AM Radio Talk Show hosts who make their living misinforming the electorate. Without them the tea baggers wouldn't have been anything more than the disaffected fringe on tagreed


Agreed.  It's treason.
 
2013-01-01 06:29:52 PM  

Corvus: Serious question here:

If Boehner couldn't get a majority of Republicans to support his BS only tax people over 1 million bill why the fark did he think a bi-partisan senate bill would do better?


Didn't he say he would give it a vote in the house if the senate passed one? Now he is going back on his word because the Republicans don't support it?

What the fark did he think was going to happen? That the Republicans who hated the BS GOP bill were going to support the bi-partisan bill?

Or was this all a charade so he hoped the senate would fail and he could blame them? Didn't he say he would put it up for a vote even if the majority of republicans didn't support it? If not why did he have everyone waste their time?


that's like 8 questions
 
2013-01-01 06:30:33 PM  
The Republicans should make Pelosi the next Speaker just so they have someone to blame.
 
2013-01-01 06:31:24 PM  

Corvus: Waxing_Chewbacca: How many seats did the Ds pick up?  Maybe this can pass once they're sworn in.  F the GOP.

The problem is that no bill goes up for a vote unless a majority of Republicans want it to. So it doesn't matter how many Democrats are in.


Boner is watching votes for the gavel more than the bill then.  What a great patriot.
 
2013-01-01 06:31:33 PM  

TV's Vinnie: [i45.tinypic.com image 338x338]
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.


filmint.nu

We are stepped out upon the world's stage now, with the fate of the world economy is in our hands! Teabagger's blood's been spilled to afford us this moment! Now! Now! Now!
 
2013-01-01 06:33:18 PM  

Corvus: Or was this all a charade so he hoped the senate would fail and he could blame them?


This. Exactly this. Johnny Boy thought he could get Turtlehead to take the blame. Well...

i47.tinypic.com
 
2013-01-01 06:34:08 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: The Republicans should make Pelosi the next Speaker just so they have someone to blame.


That?  That was awesome.
 
2013-01-01 06:35:32 PM  

Corvus: Or was this all a charade so he hoped the senate would fail and he could blame them? Didn't he say he would put it up for a vote even if the majority of republicans didn't support it? If not why did he have everyone waste their time?


I think you're on the money with the part I bolded above. I don't remember Boehner saying he'd have the House vote for it even if the majority of republicans didn't support it. Even if he did, though, there's a difference between saying that and saying "I'll have the House vote on it with no amendments added."

skullkrusher: who's the third? I can't assess the likelihood of your situation without that info


My partner. He's down for the plan. Just waiting on Anderson.
 
2013-01-01 06:37:52 PM  

ariseatex: My partner. He's down for the plan. Just waiting on Anderson.


oh, good luck
 
2013-01-01 06:38:31 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Corvus: Or was this all a charade so he hoped the senate would fail and he could blame them?

This. Exactly this. Johnny Boy thought he could get Turtlehead to take the blame. Well...

[i47.tinypic.com image 565x405]


So Boehner thought Reid was as incompetent as him? Yeah, guess that 89 - 8 vote didn't work out like he expected.


But obviously if he is not putting this up for a vote nothing that could have came out of the senate they were going to vote on.

His "The senate needs to make a bi-partisan bill" was a lie. He never intended to put it up for a vote.
 
2013-01-01 06:39:25 PM  

Corvus: If Boehner couldn't get a majority of Republicans to support his BS only tax people over 1 million bill why the fark did he think a bi-partisan senate bill would do better?


Didn't he say he would give it a vote in the house if the senate passed one? Now he is going back on his word because the Republicans don't support it?

What the fark did he think was going to happen? That the Republicans who hated the BS GOP bill were going to support the bi-partisan bill?

Or was this all a charade so he hoped the senate would fail and he could blame them? Didn't he say he would put it up for a vote even if the majority of republicans didn't support it? If not why did he have everyone waste their time?


Boehner is drunk...orange... and flaccid.

I don't think they actually had a 'plan' outside of putting up appearances without substance. Really, I think most of this is simply spite. The Republicans and Teahaddis know they've screwed themselves and are just trying to make sure everyone is screwed right along with them. About the only way anything is going to pass the House is if there is a rider on the bill that allows them to legally (and without consequence) refer to the President as "Boy" from now on. Scum... the lot of them.
 
2013-01-01 06:39:35 PM  

Corvus: He never intended to put it up for a vote.


Nope. He didn't. Which surprises me that anyone thought he actually would.
 
2013-01-01 06:40:28 PM  
This was in no way a perfect bill.  A lot of Ds hated it.  I, had been there, would have voted yes for the good of the nation but held my nose.  These assholes can't except anything but everything they want.  Hell, Brit farkin Hume is calling them out.  I hope the GOP burns after this.  Moderates too as they looked the other way as the teatards took over.  Ronnie Regean would have been ecstatic in getting a deal like this.  Wtf are these people thinking?!  Wtf are the people who ELECT them thinking?!
 
2013-01-01 06:40:46 PM  

skullkrusher: TV's Vinnie: [i45.tinypic.com image 338x338]
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.

Seriously, your scorched earth theory is stupid.
They actually believe they are doing the right thing. Yes, they are that dumb.


No. Deep down, they know what they are doing is wrong and evil. They just don't care because it's all about them and if they can't get their way, then let all of creation itself be damned!
 
2013-01-01 06:41:22 PM  

ariseatex: Even if he did, though, there's a difference between saying that and saying "I'll have the House vote on it with no amendments added."


Then why wasn't he involved in negotiations then? You can't say "I am done I am leaving it up to the senate" and when the senate does it you go "Why the hell wasn't I involved!!"

Well you can. It's what children do but everyone should call it out for being complete bullshiat.
 
2013-01-01 06:41:57 PM  

Tommy Moo: TV's Vinnie: [i45.tinypic.com image 338x338]
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.

There can't possibly be enough of them to prevent this from passing. The House doesn't get to filibuster. If nearly all Dems vote yes, they'll only need, what, 30 or 40 out of 200some Republicans to join them?


Even when there was a Democrat Supermajority a few years back, all it took was one selfish spiteful little dickhead named Joe Lieberman to monkeywrench everything up.
 
2013-01-01 06:42:26 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: This was in no way a perfect bill.  A lot of Ds hated it.  I, had been there, would have voted yes for the good of the nation but held my nose.  These assholes can't except anything but everything they want.  Hell, Brit farkin Hume is calling them out.  I hope the GOP burns after this.  Moderates too as they looked the other way as the teatards took over.  Ronnie Regean would have been ecstatic in getting a deal like this.  Wtf are these people thinking?!  Wtf are the people who ELECT them thinking?!


That it's better for government to do absolutely nothing than to do something they disagree with.

They're cheering this.
 
2013-01-01 06:43:05 PM  

TV's Vinnie: skullkrusher: TV's Vinnie: [i45.tinypic.com image 338x338]
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.

Seriously, your scorched earth theory is stupid.
They actually believe they are doing the right thing. Yes, they are that dumb.

No. Deep down, they know what they are doing is wrong and evil. They just don't care because it's all about them and if they can't get their way, then let all of creation itself be damned!


probably not
 
2013-01-01 06:43:19 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Corvus: He never intended to put it up for a vote.

Nope. He didn't. Which surprises me that anyone thought he actually would.


I personally think Boehner is screwed no matter what he does. The GOP donors and sponsors are not happy about their taxes going up, that's a fact, but those sponsors can't influence the Tea Derpers and Boehner can't threaten them into compliance, so...

He's stuck. He can't do a vote without unanimous GOP consensus and they're not going to give it.

The Democrats have successfully managed to turn the GOP lock-step group-think, their greatest strength, into a weakness to be exploited. Color me impressed.
 
2013-01-01 06:43:24 PM  

ariseatex: I think you're on the money with the part I bolded above. I don't remember Boehner saying he'd have the House vote for it even if the majority of republicans didn't support it.


Pelosi says he did.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and her deptuies noted that Boehner had vowed to act on whatever budget package was sent over from the Senate.

He out and out lied.
 
2013-01-01 06:45:17 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Corvus: He never intended to put it up for a vote.

Nope. He didn't. Which surprises me that anyone thought he actually would.


I know there's no chance of it working but I'd love to see patriots who care for their fellow Americans, D or R, and who live in Boner's district, Cantor's and every teatardist congressman, to start recall actions on these farkers for gross negligence and incompetence.
 
2013-01-01 06:45:18 PM  
"Up until now, our Speaker has said when the Senate acts, we will have a vote in the House. That is what he said. That is what we expect," Pelosi said following a Democratic caucus meeting where Vice President Biden briefed lawmakers on the deal he'd finalized with Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) just a day earlier.

"We're all very eager to see the form that the Republican leadership will put onto the floor today," she added. "The issue of whether we have an up-or-down vote shouldn't even be a question. We were told we would not have any legislation on the floor until, or unless, the Senate acted. And when they did we would have a vote. And so we want to have that vote."


Boenher farking lied.
 
2013-01-01 06:47:01 PM  

Corvus: Boenher farking lied.


Of course he did... have you known him to do anything else?
 
2013-01-01 06:47:42 PM  
Recall.  Make them start spending campaign cash now.
 
2013-01-01 06:47:46 PM  
Oh so also I read some Republicans are talking about waiting for tomorrow so the stock market will tank so they can have political cover for voting for it?

Yes they want the stock market to fall so it makes them look better.
 
2013-01-01 06:49:24 PM  

JohnnyC: Corvus: Boenher farking lied.

Of course he did... have you known him to do anything else?


I am sort of surprised that he lied about a deal being made. I know they lie about lots of things but thats still something they usually try to keep honest on.
 
2013-01-01 06:50:42 PM  

Infernalist: The Democrats have successfully managed to turn the GOP lock-step group-think, their greatest strength, into a weakness to be exploited. Color me impressed.


Goodbye Tea Party.

i1282.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-01 06:51:21 PM  

Mentat: Infernalist: The Democrats have successfully managed to turn the GOP lock-step group-think, their greatest strength, into a weakness to be exploited. Color me impressed.

Goodbye Tea Party.

[i1282.photobucket.com image 545x237]


That is so unfair to Hans Gruber....
 
2013-01-01 06:53:03 PM  
Watching the freakshow that is the current Republican congress, I realize now there is only one way our federal government will ever be functional again: non-Republicans are going to have to start voting en masse in Republican primary elections.

Thanks to gerrymandering, the Republicans have a House majority all but guaranteed. How else could they have maintained a 30 seat majority in the past election despite their near-universally despised behavior? The only challenge many incumbent Republican congressmen face is during primary elections. These primaries aren't battles to see who is the most moderate, who is the most thoughtful, who is the most capable of working with others. The primaries are just purity deathmatches, where victory goes to the candidate who can appeal most to the rabid, intractable base. Yet these primaries are the only elections that matter in gerrymandered districts. The general election means nothing.

The only way to get around this is for rational people in these gerrymandered districts -- lifelong independents, lifelong Democrats, even people who are generally don't vote but have been roused from their apathy by the insanity of the current House -- to start registering as Republicans, and start voting in primary elections for the least crazy candidate available.
 
2013-01-01 06:53:56 PM  

Infernalist: The Democrats have successfully managed to turn the GOP lock-step group-think, their greatest strength, into a weakness to be exploited. Color me impressed.


Agreed, but I wouldn't give the Democrats too much credit. They did some good compromising. I like that they actually made the effort to appear as a governing party. However, all they really had to do was sit back and watch the Derpers do this to themselves. They had hedged everything they had on a Romney win. They have absolutely nothing. No legislative agenda, no allegiance to the people, nothing... They are screwed and they are curled up in a fetal position hoping that when the sun rises tomorrow President Romney will wipe some cream upon their chaffed bottoms.
 
2013-01-01 06:55:42 PM  

Moodybastard: Mentat: Infernalist: The Democrats have successfully managed to turn the GOP lock-step group-think, their greatest strength, into a weakness to be exploited. Color me impressed.

Goodbye Tea Party.

[i1282.photobucket.com image 545x237]

That is so unfair to Hans Gruber....



Jesus! At least Hans had a f*cking plan! No, it didn't work. At least he had one.

/And the quarterback is toast!
 
2013-01-01 06:57:39 PM  

Corvus: JohnnyC: Corvus: Boenher farking lied.

Of course he did... have you known him to do anything else?

I am sort of surprised that he lied about a deal being made. I know they lie about lots of things but thats still something they usually try to keep honest on.


Eh... not really. He was bluffing, essentially. He's supposedly in a position of power, but he knows his position is largely impotent since the Republicans can't seem to agree on anything except "hate Obama" and at the end of the day, that isn't going to get him anything. The Tea Party... well... I think by now the Republicans are really regretting creating them. I think it's safe to say that Boehner is on his own and just trying to hold on to whatever illusion of power he has left. He thought he would be off the hook, but McConnell threw the ball back in his court. Personally... I think they're both finished politically (thankfully).
 
2013-01-01 07:03:27 PM  

NewportBarGuy: Moodybastard: Mentat: Infernalist: The Democrats have successfully managed to turn the GOP lock-step group-think, their greatest strength, into a weakness to be exploited. Color me impressed.

Goodbye Tea Party.

[i1282.photobucket.com image 545x237]

That is so unfair to Hans Gruber....


Jesus! At least Hans had a f*cking plan! No, it didn't work. At least he had one.

/And the quarterback is toast!


Ahh!!!! Thank you!

I had never really gotten that line. Always thought he said something like "and the warvack is toast" Didn't make a ton of sense but what the hell, its a good movie.
 
2013-01-01 07:10:53 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: NewportBarGuy: Corvus: He never intended to put it up for a vote.

Nope. He didn't. Which surprises me that anyone thought he actually would.

I know there's no chance of it working but I'd love to see patriots who care for their fellow Americans, D or R, and who live in Boner's district, Cantor's and every teatardist congressman, to start recall actions on these farkers for gross negligence and incompetence.


Difficulty--there are a fair number of teatarder Congresscritters who are from states where there IS no effective recall procedure--once they're in, they're in. :P

(Trust me, a LOT of people in KY would LOVE to recall Turtleboy...but unfortunately we have no legal procedure for recall of Senators and/or Representatives once elected.)
 
2013-01-01 07:16:42 PM  
Once the tax cuts expire the Republicans will have no leverage at all. They will be in the position of asking for tax cuts and having to make concessions to get them. I wouldn't be surprised to see the debt ceiling threat given up in the negotiations.
 
2013-01-01 07:23:37 PM  

red5ish: Once the tax cuts expire the Republicans will have no leverage at all. They will be in the position of asking for tax cuts and having to make concessions to get them. I wouldn't be surprised to see the debt ceiling threat given up in the negotiations.


They'll ask for tax cuts and continue to refuse concessions. They believe they are patriots saving the nation - both on this tax increase and on the debt ceiling. At this point, I think we're going to have to wait for the new Congress to come in, at least a week of bad press, and maybe even for Obama to lay into them during the State of the Union before House Republicans will throw in their towel.
 
2013-01-01 07:29:50 PM  

red5ish: Once the tax cuts expire the Republicans will have no leverage at all. They will be in the position of asking for tax cuts and having to make concessions to get them. I wouldn't be surprised to see the debt ceiling threat given up in the negotiations.


That is why I'm afraid they will actually pass the Senate Bill.
 
2013-01-01 07:31:49 PM  

red5ish: Once the tax cuts expire the Republicans will have no leverage at all. They will be in the position of asking for tax cuts and having to make concessions to get them. I wouldn't be surprised to see the debt ceiling threat given up in the negotiations.


I'm not sure about the last sentence, but otherwise I agree. Its not the President who has lost leverage here. Its clearly the Republican side. Obama campaigned on a wider tax increase than this one and got re-elected. Once the markets crash and milk goes to $8 a gallon everything will get even more real...very quickly.
 
2013-01-01 07:35:13 PM  

mrshowrules: That is why I'm afraid they will actually pass the Senate Bill.


I'll be surprised: the hardcore activists on the Reactionary side are howling against it--they too would prefer the so-called "cliff."
 
2013-01-01 07:36:14 PM  
The last deal had the far left and far right screaming bloody murder. So it sounded like a winner to me! If the house GOP rejects it they will put themselves in double checkmate.

I will admit Obama gave them a out. I know most on the left are screaming " Finish Him! "

I really don't think the GOP gets how much trouble they are in. They can save themselves just by acting sane..Just once guys quit with the crazy. The GOP are farking up the country just to make Obama look bad. Its not working, people are blaming Republicans and people are NOT going to forget this in 2014 or 2016 like Republicans seem to be banking on
 
2013-01-01 07:37:13 PM  

stiletto_the_wise: dumbobruni: there are over 3 million unfilled jobs in America, and a bunch of industries ranging from manufacturing to financial services to construction are whining about "skills/staffing shortages".

LOL, how are "unfilled jobs" measured? Counting the number of job postings on companies' web sites and just assuming they're all real positions they're actually hiring for? Or accepting companies' pinky-swear that the shortages they're whining about are real?


This isn't really anything to even take note of in our economy. What is happening for most of these companies is they are currently contracting out the work for these open positions. Essentially by hiring an employee that they will pay less than a contractor and removing business from the contractor they are ultimately hurting the economy. These specialized positions largely go unfilled because people that do them realize there is a gap and can freelance or start their own business and earn more rather than take a full time position.
 
2013-01-01 07:39:11 PM  

Somacandra: I'll be surprised: the hardcore activists on the Reactionary side are howling against it--they too would prefer the so-called "cliff."


Which makes taxes even more. But they seem to have no problem with the middle class taxes going up.
 
2013-01-01 07:39:56 PM  

ItchyMcDoogle: The last deal had the far left


What far left?
 
2013-01-01 07:42:11 PM  
Thread jack:

I'm having an awful time responding to posts using my iPad.  Hasn't happened before these last few days.  Do I have a setting off?  iPhone is fine but that is using mobile.
 
2013-01-01 07:44:04 PM  

Corvus: But they seem to have no problem with the middle class taxes going up.


CNN is reporting that an inside source is saying that if they can't get the votes for an Amended version (to send back to the Senate) under the Hastert Rule, Boehner will let the original Senate bill come up for an up/down vote:

If the GOP is able to get a commitment of 218 votes on the amendment, then House Republicans will bring it to the floor for a vote, the source said. If the GOP is not able to secure those votes, it will bring up the Senate-passed measure for an up or down vote in the House, the source said.

We'll see if he will do it.
 
2013-01-01 07:45:28 PM  

Somacandra: I'm not sure about the last sentence, but otherwise I agree.


This constant threat of defaulting is intolerable. I don't think Obama is going to let it continue.
 
2013-01-01 07:45:43 PM  

Somacandra: Corvus: But they seem to have no problem with the middle class taxes going up.

CNN is reporting that an inside source is saying that if they can't get the votes for an Amended version (to send back to the Senate) under the Hastert Rule, Boehner will let the original Senate bill come up for an up/down vote:

If the GOP is able to get a commitment of 218 votes on the amendment, then House Republicans will bring it to the floor for a vote, the source said. If the GOP is not able to secure those votes, it will bring up the Senate-passed measure for an up or down vote in the House, the source said.

We'll see if he will do it.


He's lying again.
 
2013-01-01 07:46:16 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: Thread jack:

I'm having an awful time responding to posts using my iPad.  Hasn't happened before these last few days.  Do I have a setting off?  iPhone is fine but that is using mobile.


My biggest issue is accidentally hitting the goddamned farking post time stamp, which for no goddamn apparent reason is a link that just farks you in the ass only to pull out and spooge on your face, forever farking up your following of the thread.
 
2013-01-01 07:46:46 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: Thread jack:

I'm having an awful time responding to posts using my iPad.  Hasn't happened before these last few days.  Do I have a setting off?  iPhone is fine but that is using mobile.


Meh... I'll just use mobile I guess.
 
2013-01-01 07:48:43 PM  

neongoats: Waxing_Chewbacca: Thread jack:

I'm having an awful time responding to posts using my iPad.  Hasn't happened before these last few days.  Do I have a setting off?  iPhone is fine but that is using mobile.

My biggest issue is accidentally hitting the goddamned farking post time stamp, which for no goddamn apparent reason is a link that just farks you in the ass only to pull out and spooge on your face, forever farking up your following of the thread.


No idea what that meant but I'm laughing my ass off! I don't care about the farking keyboard but you owe me the whiskey. K?
 
2013-01-01 07:50:23 PM  

Somacandra: Corvus: But they seem to have no problem with the middle class taxes going up.

CNN is reporting that an inside source is saying that if they can't get the votes for an Amended version (to send back to the Senate) under the Hastert Rule, Boehner will let the original Senate bill come up for an up/down vote:

If the GOP is able to get a commitment of 218 votes on the amendment, then House Republicans will bring it to the floor for a vote, the source said. If the GOP is not able to secure those votes, it will bring up the Senate-passed measure for an up or down vote in the House, the source said.

We'll see if he will do it.


Later that same article:

"We were elected and then re-elected as a majority to bring the federal government to the right size, to respect every tax dollar," said Hayworth, who lost her re-election bid.
There are no words...
 
2013-01-01 07:51:52 PM  
Ali Velshi is angry on CNN.
 
2013-01-01 07:52:23 PM  

Somacandra:
CNN is reporting that an inside source is saying that if they can't get the votes for an Amended version (to send back to the Senate) under the Hastert Rule, Boehner will let the original Senate bill come up for an up/down vote:


My money is on them bringing the amended bill up for a House vote tonight, it passes with a few democrats going along, but doesn't actually get 218 republican votes -- someone will tell the GOP committee they'll vote for it then won't, or Boener will just say there was a miscount due to confusion. Then they say this is the true bipartisan bill and the Senate better pass it if they want to save America like the good Rs do.
 
2013-01-01 07:52:39 PM  

Great Porn Dragon: Waxing_Chewbacca: NewportBarGuy: Corvus: He never intended to put it up for a vote.

Nope. He didn't. Which surprises me that anyone thought he actually would.

I know there's no chance of it working but I'd love to see patriots who care for their fellow Americans, D or R, and who live in Boner's district, Cantor's and every teatardist congressman, to start recall actions on these farkers for gross negligence and incompetence.

Difficulty--there are a fair number of teatarder Congresscritters who are from states where there IS no effective recall procedure--once they're in, they're in. :P

(Trust me, a LOT of people in KY would LOVE to recall Turtleboy...but unfortunately we have no legal procedure for recall of Senators and/or Representatives once elected.)


fark. Well... Time to drink
 
2013-01-01 07:58:54 PM  

flamingboar: Ali Velshi is angry on CNN.


As a Canadian he has no business commenting on US politics.
 
2013-01-01 07:59:22 PM  

Jekylman: Later that same article:

"We were elected and then re-elected as a majority to bring the federal government to the right size, to respect every tax dollar," said Hayworth, who lost her re-election bid.
There are no words...


When I saw that Hayworth was a lame duck I had a similar reaction. They really don't know when they're loosing, even after they've lost.
 
2013-01-01 08:01:05 PM  
HuffPo saying the House GOP has enough votes to pass the bill without amendments. They will not amend it because they know the Senate will reject it.
 
2013-01-01 08:01:28 PM  

redbucket: Somacandra:
CNN is reporting that an inside source is saying that if they can't get the votes for an Amended version (to send back to the Senate) under the Hastert Rule, Boehner will let the original Senate bill come up for an up/down vote:


My money is on them bringing the amended bill up for a House vote tonight, it passes with a few democrats going along, but doesn't actually get 218 republican votes -- someone will tell the GOP committee they'll vote for it then won't, or Boener will just say there was a miscount due to confusion. Then they say this is the true bipartisan bill and the Senate better pass it if they want to save America like the good Rs do.


At current count, there are 14 'blue dog' Democrats who'd even consider voting for the GOP and there are roughly 70 Tea Derpers who won't vote for any tax increases at all.

The numbers simply don't add up. Unless he plans on breaking the Hastert rule, there won't be a House vote on any of those bills.
 
2013-01-01 08:03:27 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: HuffPo saying the House GOP has enough votes to pass the bill without amendments. They will not amend it because they know the Senate will reject it.


There goes all the leverage then DNC ever had.  Permanent tax cuts on income up to $450K and the GOP can fark Obama on the debt ceiling again and then Obama won't have any leverage at all.
 
2013-01-01 08:06:14 PM  

mrshowrules: shower_in_my_socks: HuffPo saying the House GOP has enough votes to pass the bill without amendments. They will not amend it because they know the Senate will reject it.

There goes all the leverage then DNC ever had.  Permanent tax cuts on income up to $450K and the GOP can fark Obama on the debt ceiling again and then Obama won't have any leverage at all.


I will not count this deal done until it passes back to the Senate with an up-or-down vote from the House.
 
2013-01-01 08:08:48 PM  

Infernalist: there are roughly 70 61 Tea Derpers

 
2013-01-01 08:10:35 PM  

Infernalist: mrshowrules: shower_in_my_socks: HuffPo saying the House GOP has enough votes to pass the bill without amendments. They will not amend it because they know the Senate will reject it.

There goes all the leverage then DNC ever had.  Permanent tax cuts on income up to $450K and the GOP can fark Obama on the debt ceiling again and then Obama won't have any leverage at all.

I will not count this deal done until it passes back to the Senate with an up-or-down vote from the House.


If it passes without amendments (see previous post) it doesn't go back to the Senate.  It goes to the President's desk.
 
2013-01-01 08:15:51 PM  

mrshowrules: shower_in_my_socks: HuffPo saying the House GOP has enough votes to pass the bill without amendments. They will not amend it because they know the Senate will reject it.

There goes all the leverage then DNC ever had.  Permanent tax cuts on income up to $450K and the GOP can fark Obama on the debt ceiling again and then Obama won't have any leverage at all.


Wrong. They have sequestration. The Rs are destroying Medicare! POTUS is playing the long game... Again. Just like in the campaign. Let the man work.
 
2013-01-01 08:20:59 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: mrshowrules: shower_in_my_socks: HuffPo saying the House GOP has enough votes to pass the bill without amendments. They will not amend it because they know the Senate will reject it.

There goes all the leverage then DNC ever had.  Permanent tax cuts on income up to $450K and the GOP can fark Obama on the debt ceiling again and then Obama won't have any leverage at all.

Wrong. They have sequestration. The Rs are destroying Medicare! POTUS is playing the long game... Again. Just like in the campaign. Let the man work.


CNN reported that if it passes without amendments, it doesn't go back to the Senate.   Can you be clearer on why it would go back to the Senate if they House passes it without amendments?
 
2013-01-01 08:21:36 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca:
Wrong. They have sequestration. The Rs are destroying Medicare! POTUS is playing the long game... Again. Just like in the campaign. Let the man work.


I believe sequestration only happens when the two bills have differing language, which wouldn't be the case if they passed the senate bill. Which Rep Cole is now saying will happen.
 
2013-01-01 08:25:07 PM  

Waxing_Chewbacca: Agreed. It's treason.


See, that's where the dialogue slips into derptitude. We ended up with an outcome that most thinking people didn't want, true, and most of us can agree these clowns aren't doing their job.

But to say these guys are committing a high crime deserving of the death penalty? Nubian please.
 
2013-01-01 08:29:06 PM  

redbucket: Waxing_Chewbacca:
Wrong. They have sequestration. The Rs are destroying Medicare! POTUS is playing the long game... Again. Just like in the campaign. Let the man work.

I believe sequestration only happens when the two bills have differing language, which wouldn't be the case if they passed the senate bill. Which Rep Cole is now saying will happen.


I just can't see the Tea Derpers going along with the bill as-is, no changes. That's not their MO at all. I'll believe it when I see it.
 
2013-01-01 08:29:06 PM  

mrshowrules: Waxing_Chewbacca: mrshowrules: shower_in_my_socks: HuffPo saying the House GOP has enough votes to pass the bill without amendments. They will not amend it because they know the Senate will reject it.

There goes all the leverage then DNC ever had.  Permanent tax cuts on income up to $450K and the GOP can fark Obama on the debt ceiling again and then Obama won't have any leverage at all.

Wrong. They have sequestration. The Rs are destroying Medicare! POTUS is playing the long game... Again. Just like in the campaign. Let the man work.

CNN reported that if it passes without amendments, it doesn't go back to the Senate.   Can you be clearer on why it would go back to the Senate if they House passes it without amendments?


The Senate already passed it. If the House passes it, it goes to the president to sign it into law.
 
2013-01-01 08:29:55 PM  
As a federal employee I am not sure which i rather have, this bill passed or just go off the cliff already.

On the one hand I can appreciate the tax issue being resolved, on the other hand we have 2 more months of no real budget and dealing with the across the board cuts hanging over head. Its starting to get ridiculous.
 
2013-01-01 08:30:15 PM  

red5ish: Infernalist: there are roughly 70 61 Tea Derpers

Tealiban
 
2013-01-01 08:34:07 PM  

skullkrusher: TV's Vinnie: skullkrusher: TV's Vinnie: [i45.tinypic.com image 338x338]
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.

Seriously, your scorched earth theory is stupid.
They actually believe they are doing the right thing. Yes, they are that dumb.

No. Deep down, they know what they are doing is wrong and evil. They just don't care because it's all about them and if they can't get their way, then let all of creation itself be damned!

probably not


You've never heard of Steve King, have you?
 
2013-01-01 08:35:27 PM  

TV's Vinnie: skullkrusher: TV's Vinnie: skullkrusher: TV's Vinnie: [i45.tinypic.com image 338x338]
TEABAGGERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRS!

Seriously. The Teabaggers who lost the election are just trying to wreck the country because they're butthurt little crybabies who still cannot fathom the fact that most of the country is disgusted with them.

Just wait for these fired farksticks to be out of office later this month, and THEN begin the fiscal curb and budget ceiling talks once there are more Democrats sworn in.

Seriously, your scorched earth theory is stupid.
They actually believe they are doing the right thing. Yes, they are that dumb.

No. Deep down, they know what they are doing is wrong and evil. They just don't care because it's all about them and if they can't get their way, then let all of creation itself be damned!

probably not

You've never heard of Steve King, have you?


He does good books, but those movies of his generally stink up the joint.
 
2013-01-01 08:36:04 PM  

Infernalist: I just can't see the Tea Derpers going along with the bill as-is, no changes. That's not their MO at all. I'll believe it when I see it.


If House Democrats vote for the bill, the Tea Derpers can vote against it and it'll still pass with even modest Republican support. Then you can stock up on popcorn and watch the party eat itself until the midterms.
 
2013-01-01 08:40:08 PM  

lemurs: Infernalist: I just can't see the Tea Derpers going along with the bill as-is, no changes. That's not their MO at all. I'll believe it when I see it.

If House Democrats vote for the bill, the Tea Derpers can vote against it and it'll still pass with even modest Republican support. Then you can stock up on popcorn and watch the party eat itself until the midterms.


See, that's the thing! Boehner wouldn't dare bring it up for a vote and see the vaunted 'united GOP' openly vote against itself They live and die by the Hastert Rule. And to have the Tea Derpers voting against a united GOP and Democratic block? Oh dear lords, the poor GOPers would see every open seat get challenged by Tea Derpers in their primaries and THAT is what truly scares them. They don't fear Democratic challengers in those gerrymandered districts, but to get burned out in a purity race in the primaries, oh yes, that scares them.

That's why I can't see the GOP voting against itself. I can't see the Tea Derpers changing their MO this late in the game on TAXES of all things and I can't see the GOP opening itself up to an open Tea Derper revolt by having a split vote.

That's why I'm so damned skeptical of this vote happening.
 
2013-01-01 08:42:01 PM  
Perhaps Boehner should look into amendments - at least enough that the bill looks like something a patriotic American would support and not the usual socialist class-warfare drivel.
 
2013-01-01 08:45:56 PM  
Well, everyone is reporting they'll vote between 9 and 10pm on the Senate bill without changes. So, unless there's a surprise, that's that. Shall we all reconvene here in two months when they have to do this again?
 
2013-01-01 09:01:16 PM  

Smelly McUgly: The Senate already passed it. If the House passes it, it goes to the president to sign it into law.


Isn't that entirely backwards? They're supposed to originate in the House. I really don't get how this is supposed to go the other way. Can anyone explain why it's alright for this to go Senate to House to President?
 
2013-01-01 09:03:51 PM  
Hawt Dana Bash says the vote will be after 11pm.
 
2013-01-01 09:04:12 PM  
JohnnyC:  Isn't that entirely backwards? They're supposed to originate in the House. I really don't get how this is supposed to go the other way. Can anyone explain why it's alright for this to go Senate to House to President?

If it passes, the understanding is that the House will not invoke that particular prerogative, called a "blue slip."
 
2013-01-01 09:04:17 PM  

JohnnyC: Smelly McUgly: The Senate already passed it. If the House passes it, it goes to the president to sign it into law.

Isn't that entirely backwards? They're supposed to originate in the House. I really don't get how this is supposed to go the other way. Can anyone explain why it's alright for this to go Senate to House to President?


I believe the Senate amended the bill the House passed a while ago.
 
2013-01-01 09:04:43 PM  

JohnnyC: Smelly McUgly: The Senate already passed it. If the House passes it, it goes to the president to sign it into law.

Isn't that entirely backwards? They're supposed to originate in the House. I really don't get how this is supposed to go the other way. Can anyone explain why it's alright for this to go Senate to House to President?


This will "originate" in the House. The senate having passed any bill first means exactly jack and shiat. (Eg, the Senate passed a bill in November extending tax cuts for first 250K of income. The House has not even pissed on that bill).
Once the House "originates" this bill (based entirely on the Senate's "recommendation"), having the Senate re-vote when you know they agree would be redundant, so it goes to Obama.
 
2013-01-01 09:08:16 PM  

redbucket: Well, everyone is reporting they'll vote between 9 and 10pm on the Senate bill without changes. So, unless there's a surprise, that's that.


I would not count out either 1) the bill failing for lack of votes, or 2) the bill passing without a majority of House Republicans. If its the latter, that will be the final nail in Boehner's Speakership coffin, I think.
 
2013-01-01 09:10:19 PM  
Did I miss the derp? I've been traveling all day.
 
2013-01-01 09:18:23 PM  

Dougie AXP: Did I miss the derp? I've been traveling all day.



If you turn on C-Span right now you can catch a truckload of it from Rep. Dreier of California.
 
2013-01-01 09:20:22 PM  

Somacandra: redbucket: Well, everyone is reporting they'll vote between 9 and 10pm on the Senate bill without changes. So, unless there's a surprise, that's that.

I would not count out either 1) the bill failing for lack of votes, or 2) the bill passing without a majority of House Republicans. If its the latter, that will be the final nail in Boehner's Speakership coffin, I think.


Not even remotely. Don't underestimate these people's capacity for self-delusion. The same way Romney's 47% comments SHOULD have ended his candidacy immediately, but didn't, do you think the republicans won't find a way to spin this to themselves as a win? That shiatstain Grover Norquist has conveniently come out and said (contrary to everything he's EVER said) that letting tax cuts expire for some isn't a tax hike. I would love love LOVE if all Democrats voted present on this. Or at least enough Dems such that a majority of the Republicans would have to vote FOR the bill for it to pass. Pelosi needs to deliver 96 Dems and have the repubs whip the other 122. No letting these assholes off the hook passing a compromise(d) bill with full Dem support and 20-odd Republicans in blood-red districts.
 
2013-01-01 09:22:05 PM  

itanimullI: Dougie AXP: Did I miss the derp? I've been traveling all day.


If you turn on C-Span right now you can catch a truckload of it from Rep. Dreier of California.


Jesus, that was beyond weapons grade, that was close to nuclear grade derp.
 
2013-01-01 09:23:04 PM  

flamingboar: Hawt Dana Bash says the vote will be after 11pm.


Hawt? as in attractive?

/shudder
 
2013-01-01 09:24:25 PM  

Opiate of the Lasses: That shiatstain Grover Norquist has conveniently come out and said (contrary to everything he's EVER said) that letting tax cuts expire for some isn't a tax hike.


He needs the GOP as much as they need him. Once he actually calls this a violation he will be expected to start mounting primary challengers or be seen as toothless. This gives him an out, which he needs.
 
2013-01-01 09:26:42 PM  

JohnnyC: Smelly McUgly: The Senate already passed it. If the House passes it, it goes to the president to sign it into law.

Isn't that entirely backwards? They're supposed to originate in the House. I really don't get how this is supposed to go the other way. Can anyone explain why it's alright for this to go Senate to House to President?


The senate deal is technically a really big amendment to some bill the House passed.
 
2013-01-01 09:28:32 PM  
They're voting right now.... so far 95 yea and 0 nay... looks like it will pass based on this trend.
 
2013-01-01 09:29:55 PM  
Okay... Thanks for the replies Somacandra, VarmintCong, and Opiate of the Lasses. I think I get it now. Still seems dumb, but the whole thing seems dumb at this point.

I think we should have a rule where the House gets "locked in" until they get their job done.
 
2013-01-01 09:30:00 PM  

Somacandra: JohnnyC:  Isn't that entirely backwards? They're supposed to originate in the House. I really don't get how this is supposed to go the other way. Can anyone explain why it's alright for this to go Senate to House to President?

If it passes, the understanding is that the House will not invoke that particular prerogative, called a "blue slip."


Everyone knows you don't go Senate to House.....
/Ya, you can go Senate to House, just don't tell anyone
 
2013-01-01 09:30:41 PM  

DeltaPunch: They're voting right now.... so far 95 yea and 0 nay... looks like it will pass based on this trend.


This is not the Senate bill litself. This is a rule that paves the way for it to be considered. Since the Speaker intends to bring it to a vote, this is just procedural. Until the actual bill is signed, I would not call it a done deal.
 
2013-01-01 09:31:09 PM  

DeltaPunch: They're voting right now.... so far 95 yea and 0 nay... looks like it will pass based on this trend.


This is a procedural bill I think. This isn't the actual vote.
 
2013-01-01 09:31:25 PM  
9:19 p.m. ET - The House is now voting on rule for the fiscal cliff deal, then will start general debate.

Vote on process.

Real vote in another hour.
 
2013-01-01 09:32:21 PM  

Moodybastard: Everyone knows you don't go Senate to House.....


Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, it's forgivable to go Senate to House.