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(About.com)   Because cyclists aren't bad enough. Illinois set to classify inline skaters as "vehicles" and allow them to to skate on the streets, ignore traffic laws   (inlineskating.about.com ) divider line
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3188 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jan 2013 at 12:06 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-01-01 02:03:43 PM  

Krazikarl: The Angry Hand of God: I have not seen this. As someone who has ridden a bike and skateboard frequently on roads, "blowing" through a stop sign in a busy intersection usually doesn't work out in the favor of the smaller vehicle. In any case, you can continue making things up, or regurgitating the same crap someone else said.

I see it constantly. You obviously have not ever lived near a college campus or in a heavily residential area inside of a large city. If you had lived in an area like that, you would see this behavior each and every day in the spring/summer. If you don't think that this happens, you simply have no clue.

It usually doesn't happen at busy intersections. You pulled the "busy" qualifier out of your ass so that you had a stronger argument. It happens in residential areas where traffic and car speed is lower. Cyclists know that they can essentially force cars to stop if they are at low speeds without too much of a threat to their safety.

Go to an area with lots of college students, and watch them bike around residential areas with some car traffic. Go ahead and tell me what percentage stop all the time at signs/lights. You will then have a clue of what you are talking about.


I have lived in an area with a ton of college students, and quite frankly, usually the asshole is the one driving the car. Why don't we have a nice conversation about how you hate hipsters and PBR instead.
 
2013-01-01 02:05:29 PM  

ancker: Does this happen, yes. Does it happen enough that it's an epidemic, no.
As stated before, I live in a college town with a huge campus and have drove onto campus to work for 9 years. There are TONS of bikes. I have never once had to slam on my brakes to avoid hitting a cyclist who 'blew through' a stop sign/light. I see WAY more people walking during 'no-walk' signs.


I lived in a residential area near a major college campus while in grad school for 6 years, and it is an absolute epidemic in areas like that. I have to constantly brake for cyclists breaking the law.

I have personally hit a cyclist (who was riding the wrong way on a 1 way street at dusk with no lights - it was very low speed so the cyclist was fine other than some scrapes and the cops said that I obviously had no fault).

I have also seen a COP hit a cyclist when the biker blew threw a red light. Once again, low speed collision, but it was a collision and the biker was 100% at fault.
And yes, jaywalking on campus such that cars have to stop is a major problem. But at least that is confined to actually being on campus - you don't see it as soon as you get off the actual campus. And I'm all for ticketing jay walkers that make traffic stop for them.
 
2013-01-01 02:05:36 PM  

crotchgrabber: It's too early for a bike hate thread.

I'm gonna pull on my lycra shorts, get on my bike and run some god damn stop signs.


Make sure you have Oakleys on, a tiny mirror on a stick clamped to your space helmet, and a stainless steel bike bottle with four espressos in it for maximum troll power.

/being Lance Armstrong took ball.
 
2013-01-01 02:10:40 PM  

The Angry Hand of God: I have lived in an area with a ton of college students, and quite frankly, usually the asshole is the one driving the car. Why don't we have a nice conversation about how you hate hipsters and PBR instead.


Good subject change when you didn't like the direction that the conversation was going.

Yes, I agree that the assholes are often, or even usually, the driver. Yes, I agree that a ton of drivers are clueless and will yell at bikers to "get off the road" even when the bikers are 100% in the right.

But what does this have to do with the argument that bikers should be ticketed when they break the law in a way that screws over others? Hint: it's a complete non sequitur.
 
2013-01-01 02:11:19 PM  

Urmuf Hamer: Petit_Merdeux: If only cyclists observed all the traffic laws as diligently as motorists!

thurstonxhowell: Do you also get angry at pedestrians for thinking you should stay off the sidewalk?

Sarcasmatron is challenged by at least one of these posts

As an old, very fit user/owner of just about every form of conveyance implicit in this discussion I assert that the problem with all of them is that over a long enough period every single operator of any of them is at best an oblivious fool and at worst an ignorant incompetent inconsiderate waste of life.

/get teh hell off my road, sidewalk, bike lane, bike path, truck stop, runway, skate park, farmer's market and lawn,

//that is all


blog.wtfconcept.com
 
2013-01-01 02:11:40 PM  

Krazikarl: However, it IS a big deal if you break the law such that it affects everybody else on the damn road. This is what bikers do when they regularly blow through stop signs and lights such that cars have to brake for them.  Cars generally don't get to break motoring laws such that it screws everybody else on the road, but some bikers seem to think that its their God given right to break whatever law they want even if it screws over other vehicles.


I'm not going to pick a side in this cyclist vs. motorist thread, but having lived ( & commuted by bike) in Eugene, OR during the 90's, I can attest to some pretty brazen bicyclists out there.

Many close calls in that town with the hyper-aggressive, spandex-clad crowd; both when I was driving and when I was riding my own bicycle. At least the homeless people on bikes are only doing about 5mph, not enough to badly scrape up my car or injure a pedestrian...

/ and many clueless drivers...
// and road-hogging rednecks just a few miles away ( Springfield, OR)
 
2013-01-01 02:13:06 PM  

Krazikarl: The Angry Hand of God: I have lived in an area with a ton of college students, and quite frankly, usually the asshole is the one driving the car. Why don't we have a nice conversation about how you hate hipsters and PBR instead.

Good subject change when you didn't like the direction that the conversation was going.

Yes, I agree that the assholes are often, or even usually, the driver. Yes, I agree that a ton of drivers are clueless and will yell at bikers to "get off the road" even when the bikers are 100% in the right.

But what does this have to do with the argument that bikers should be ticketed when they break the law in a way that screws over others? Hint: it's a complete non sequitur.


Please point out to me where I made that the argument? I never said bikers shouldn't be ticketed. I was just trying to make the point that the people in cars are not always in the right like they think they are.
 
2013-01-01 02:16:37 PM  
i291.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-01 02:16:50 PM  

Tanukis_Parachute: january 1 and already had a run in with a cyclist that thought the stop sign was a 'suggestion'.
four way stop...i got there first. start to go and a biker blows thru from my right and starts yelling at me for having the audacity to slow him down.
he yelled at me that he was in 'training'. i guess it is training to be dead quicker.



Bullshiat.

A bicyclist blew through a 4 way stop, and you had a mental conversation and thought it was funny.
1) If he was training, he wouldn't have stopped. He just would have ridden to the next light and done the exact same thing
2) Thanks to the Doppler Effect, you wouldn't have been able to understand him.

Next time, cut out the pretend conversation, and just say "I guess he was training. Training to be dead quicker!"
 
2013-01-01 02:16:55 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Skarekrough: So, in conclusion, they're more likely to incur greater damage, prone to ignore driving laws because of the basic laws of physics in a situation they have willingly inserted themselves into, and they're whiny about it.

If you're looking for why people driving cars hate bicyclists you can start right there.

What you also don't notice is the commuter cyclist riding one block over, on a residential street. Obeying all the laws, slipping quietly through town. Why is he over there? Because it is a much easier ride, as opposed to being an idiot on the main through street.

But that guy never appears on your radar.


From a pure logic standpoint it is hard to notice something that is well out of my view.

Having had a commute which had several bike path crossings I was always willing to give cyclists the go-ahead if for no other reason than I know the dangers they have and wish them nothing more than safety when they're being courteous and observant.

My issue us not with them. Never has been and never will be.
 
2013-01-01 02:17:54 PM  

The Angry Hand of God: Please point out to me where I made that the argument? I never said bikers shouldn't be ticketed.


You said that cyclists don't blow through stop signs/lights because it would be too dangerous for them. You then accused me of making things up when I said that they did. When I pointed out that I personally witness that behavior constantly, and am therefore not making things up, your response was "Drivers are assholes".
 
2013-01-01 02:18:12 PM  

ancker: The number 7 and the letter Q!:

Bikers should go through training (which they don't, at least not here) and get ticketed when they break the law (which they don't here).

Grow up and stop pretending that you, and your mode of transportation, is better than others. Do what's right for you, and don't screw others over.

If you've gone through driving training, you've gone through cycling training. The rules are the same with occasional exceptions (like being able to ride double-file or getting to run a red light if it the trigger isn't working for you) in some jurisdictions. Most of the exceptions are less strict than for cars. If you simply follow the "Rules of the road" on a bike, you'll be fine.

When you are on the road whether it be on bike, motorcycle, moped, or golf cart, you must behave exactly as if you were in a car.


It's been so long for me since driver training (which may be a problem in and of itself) that I had forgotten that it covered bikes too. It does explain why I feel bikes should be treated like vehicles for the most part, though.

Thanks for reminding me.
 
2013-01-01 02:18:30 PM  
I know one thing: Physics favours the car versus the bike, and also favours the bike versus the chick with her nose in her iThing.

Ignoring physics is perilous.
 
2013-01-01 02:19:40 PM  

Krazikarl: I lived in a residential area near a major college campus while in grad school for 6 years, and it is an absolute epidemic in areas like that. I have to constantly brake for cyclists breaking the law.


My favorite: having to break suddenly (attempting a right-hand turn) as a cyclist blows right through a stop sign ( first behind, and then right past me).
 
2013-01-01 02:23:54 PM  

Krazikarl: The Angry Hand of God: Please point out to me where I made that the argument? I never said bikers shouldn't be ticketed.

You said that cyclists don't blow through stop signs/lights because it would be too dangerous for them. You then accused me of making things up when I said that they did. When I pointed out that I personally witness that behavior constantly, and am therefore not making things up, your response was "Drivers are assholes".


I asked you when I made the argument that bicyclists shouldn't be ticketed. Again, can you please point that out to me?
 
2013-01-01 02:24:10 PM  
The thing I get most annoyed with here is when bikes are on the road when there is a dedicated and maintained bike bath just a few feet parallel. The path is even on the same side of the street, but noooo someone wants to ride in the road like an ass for no goddamned reason. Just once, I'd love to see one of these dedicated street-worthy riders use hand signals for turns and have proper lighting on their bikes.

As many riders as get hit around here, there should be some law making some kind of bike insurance mandatory. No riding off the insurance of the car that hit you because you were being an idiot. It would be easy to have a policy that's only a few dollars on a regular car or home policy.
 
2013-01-01 02:24:12 PM  

Forbidden Doughnut: My favorite: having to break suddenly (attempting a right-hand turn) as a cyclist blows right through a stop sign ( first behind, and then right past me).


Oh yes. Thats a classic.

Which brings me to an actual question:

It it legal for a cyclist to pass everybody on the right at a light, and then stop at the light? I honestly don't know.

You see it all the time in crowded cities. The cyclists gets passed by 10 cars, but then catches up to them when they are stopped at the light. The biker then passes them all on the right, and they all have to go through the process of passing the bike again when the light goes green. This can repeat itself many times over if there are lots of lights. I can never figure out if what the biker is doing is legal. Personally, I don't think it should be (since it really gums up traffic for everybody but the biker), but I could see it going either way.
 
2013-01-01 02:25:27 PM  

Skarekrough: From a pure logic standpoint it is hard to notice something that is well out of my view.


Very true.

Skarekrough: I notice bike riders because ...

Because of this there's a tendency to violate laws they should be observing ...

So, in conclusion, they're more likely to incur greater damage, prone to ignore driving laws because of the basic laws of physics in a situation they have willingly inserted themselves into, and they're whiny about it.


But (to me) those comments sound like you're saying 'most cyclists'. When in reality, it is just the ones you see and notice.
 
2013-01-01 02:28:03 PM  

sonorangal: Marcintosh: Best damn system I've ever seen keeps the strollers out of the way so the bikes and roller blade folks can duke it out in peace.[www.updowntowners.com image 850x508]

Where I live has a paved trail around the rivers that is supposed to be shared. I wish that set up was thought about when they created the river park trails. A lot of times both the walkers and bikers get into each other's way. Usually it is either side not paying attention. There haven't been any real accidents but a lot of near misses between the two. Most of the time I blame the walkers who usually have pets or children and do not keep them close to the edge of the trail for other runners or cyclists to pass them.


There were a lot of complaints from either side.  People walking like to walk abreast and chat while walking, sometimes they have dogs as well or even children in strollers.
People on bikes like to do about 50-60mph.  The pavement is smooth and flat and that speed is easy to attain if you're a dedicated biker.
There were a few accidents.  The route kept gaining in popularity and became more crowded every month.  So in a flash of intelligence they expanded the system.
It's a pretty cool area in this respect.  In the spring the local DOT will shut down about 3miles of a redundant road every Sunday for the public to play on.
 
2013-01-01 02:28:09 PM  

Krazikarl: It it legal for a cyclist to pass everybody on the right at a light, and then stop at the light? I honestly don't know.


Depends on the jurisdiction.

You see it all the time in crowded cities. The cyclists gets passed by 10 cars, but then catches up to them when they are stopped at the light. The biker then passes them all on the right, and they all have to go through the process of passing the bike again when the light goes green.

As a sometimes cyclist, I call that an asshat move.
/'sometimes' = a LOT more in my younger days than now
 
2013-01-01 02:28:24 PM  
The reason people generalize cyclists is because it's true.
 
2013-01-01 02:29:58 PM  

The Angry Hand of God: I asked you when I made the argument that bicyclists shouldn't be ticketed. Again, can you please point that out to me?


I said that the conversation was about "the argument that bikers should be ticketed when they break the law in a way that screws over others"

The key part is breaking a law in such a way that screws over others. You DID talk about that because you said it doesn't happen: "I have not seen this. As someone who has ridden a bike and skateboard frequently on roads, "blowing" through a stop sign in a busy intersection usually doesn't work out in the favor of the smaller vehicle. In any case, you can continue making things up..."

You said that bikers don't break the law in ways that screw over others. You then accused me of being a liar when I said that it does happen. Since breaking the law in a way that screws over others is a necessary condition for ticketing, you are basically arguing that there is no realistic situation in which a biker should be ticketed, and anybody who says otherwise is a liar.
 
2013-01-01 02:31:16 PM  

serial_crusher: Skarekrough: Because of this there's a tendency to violate laws they should be observing because they feel they're not as safe as others on the road. The refuse to accept the personal responsibility for a situation they have willingly agreed to put themselves in.

What laws are you referring to specifically?  I mean, the traditional butthurt is that bikes run red lights and stop signs all the time.  But, I'm not really aware of any of those douchebags thinking that running a light somehow makes them safer.  They just don't want to be inconvenienced by having to stop.

Skarekrough: I also notice them because when an incident occurs they have more of a tendency to blow it out of proportion (become verbally or physically violent) compared to the reaction from another motorist.

As you said, we're more vulnerable to damage.  If you do something stupid that almost puts a dent in my bumper, I'm not going to be quite as pissed as I am when you do something stupid that almost kills me.
I think I tend to react equally angrily when I'm in my car, but my voice is muffled and my hand gestures are less visible, so it might be less noticeable.


A muffled voice or hand gesture is the least of my concerns.

In almost very car-on-car accident I have been in the demeanor of the other driver is of "these things happen, that's why they're called accidents." You exchange insurance, even lend a cell phone and work together to make things better. It isn't always as pleasant, but when something happens it's almost always easier to de-escalate. To make things worse you have to be dealing with two people that are just incredible pricks that WANT things to get out of control. And those situations are rare.

In the case of even a potential or near-accident with a cyclist the attitude is "you're an unobservant jerk who feels they're entitled to the road" of which the attitude is often times combined with a physical event (kicking the doors, spitting) and then disappearing into traffic. Generally I think this is the result of operating in a state of low-grade fear because despite laws on the books there's the laws of physics of which cyclists are at the distinct disadvantage.
 
2013-01-01 02:37:19 PM  
The new law was greeted with enthusiasm by almost 20 homosexuals as well as several tween girls.
 
2013-01-01 02:38:15 PM  

Tanukis_Parachute: january 1 and already had a run in with a cyclist that thought the stop sign was a 'suggestion'.

four way stop...i got there first. start to go and a biker blows thru from my right and starts yelling at me for having the audacity to slow him down.

he yelled at me that he was in 'training'. i guess it is training to be dead quicker.


Sounds legit. I'm totally convinced that this actually occurred.
 
2013-01-01 02:42:36 PM  

Krazikarl: Which brings me to an actual question:

It it legal for a cyclist to pass everybody on the right at a light, and then stop at the light? I honestly don't know.


That's a good question. I'm pretty sure in my State ( Oregon ) that is legal only IF there is a marked bicycle lane.

/ * couldn't find a clear answer in the ODOT-published cyclist's manual *
 
2013-01-01 02:44:17 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: But (to me) those comments sound like you're saying 'most cyclists'. When in reality, it is just the ones you see and notice.


http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2011/12/uncomfortable-relat io nship-between-bikes-and-red-lights/623/

According to this study, 70% of cyclists ran through the red light at intersections with a bike lane, and 40% at an intersection without a bike lane.

40% might not be "most", but it's certainly enough of a pattern to know that it's not one or two isolated incidents per month as you seem to be implying.
 
2013-01-01 02:45:35 PM  

Derigiberble: This is a big part of it. Everyone on the road is awful, not just cyclists, but you notice cyclists. I've biked a certain neighborhood route nearly five times a week for a few months now and a hilariously small percentage of people ever comes to a complete stop at the 4-way stop signs unless someone is visible approaching on the crossing road.

Because of this it seems like most drivers don't even want a cyclist to fully stop because they don't want to wait for a biker to accelerate across the intersection. I come to a momentary full stop as (just long enough to stop without having to put my foot down), and just doing that I have gotten honked at. When I am coming up to an intersection where someone else has the right of way, 80% of the time they will sit there waving frantically for me to go despite me having a stop sign that I have to obey.



This.

I certainly agree, more people seem to get upset when I *do* stop at a stop sign, because they weren't planning on having to come to a complete stop behind me. Likewise, I get the frantic wavers as well, who appear not to understand that since they got to the intersection first, that they have right-of-way and should go before me.

Even more annoying is when they wave me through, and then proceed to turn to follow after me.
 
2013-01-01 02:49:12 PM  

cmb53208: Fluid: Is there no such thing as separate bicycle lanes on US roads? I'm not really up-to-date on how that kinda thing works in other countries.

On the streets in many US cities there are separate lanes for bicycles. And next to these lanes you will see bikers merrily going down the sidewalk with no regard for the pedestrians who use them.


And you'll see cars parked in bike lanes, passing in bike lanes, or just driving merrily along in them tailgating bicyclists who they think have no business being in "their" road.
 
2013-01-01 02:49:21 PM  

www.chud.com

Obligatory



Also, Illinois is the answer to the "if you don't love higher taxes maybe you shouldn't use the roads or any public services" bullshiat. One of the most highly taxed states in the nation. Some of the worst roads and services. The state is completely bankrupt and they are always looking for new and creative ways to squeeze more money from the citizens. Chicago is, as it is in so many other areas, the worst example of this.

I suspect that since the cyclists are too fast or difficult to catch, and therefore fine, when they commit an offense this is an attempt by the city to generate revenue by means of a slower more easily apprehended offender.

Fark you Illinois. Fark you in the face.

It can't be over soon enough
 
2013-01-01 02:52:22 PM  

Forbidden Doughnut: Krazikarl: Which brings me to an actual question:

It it legal for a cyclist to pass everybody on the right at a light, and then stop at the light? I honestly don't know.

That's a good question. I'm pretty sure in my State ( Oregon ) that is legal only IF there is a marked bicycle lane.

/ * couldn't find a clear answer in the ODOT-published cyclist's manual *


That's a bingo. If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car. If they have an actual bike lane, they are free to pass car traffic. I see a lot of riders doing both, which sucks because one second they are within their rights and the law, and the next second they're totally illegal and creating a major hazard. I avoid doing that when I'm riding on the road.

What also sucks is that laws vary as to what constitutes a bike lane. In some cities, it doesn't need to be painted or anything, it's simply a given that the farthest right 3 feet of pavement is the bike lane. This can cause a wee bit of confusion on the road.

However, as affluent, free-thinking citizens of the West, we'll get over it. (aka white people problems)
 
2013-01-01 02:52:46 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: I love the "You drive 5 over the speed limit so I get to disregard stop lights and signs" argument.


You sound fat.
 
2013-01-01 02:57:47 PM  

the ha ha guy: 40% might not be "most", but it's certainly enough of a pattern to know that it's not one or two isolated incidents per month as you seem to be implying.


Interesting. Then again, it is Portland...;)
But I never implied ' one or two isolated incidents per month'
 
2013-01-01 02:59:37 PM  
In Berlin, there are separate, marked bicycle lanes, and separate traffic control signals for bicycles.
They're still ignored.
/sigh
 
2013-01-01 03:03:49 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: For all the 'share the road' stuff they throw around, the second you go into their 'bicycle lane' you'd damn better be on a bicycle or they'll eat you alive.


I only get annoyed at the joggers who decide to run against the direction of traffic in it.
 
2013-01-01 03:05:29 PM  

Zarquon's Flat Tire: I love the "You drive 5 over the speed limit so I get to disregard stop lights and signs" argument.


I know! It's almost like people are hypocrites and then they get all butthurt when you point it out.
 
2013-01-01 03:07:10 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: All of the same 'bicycle vs car' arguments hold up for 'skaters vs bicycles'. The only difference is the smug cyclists are the ones who are going to be annoyed.

For all the 'share the road' stuff they throw around, the second you go into their 'bicycle lane' you'd damn better be on a bicycle or they'll eat you alive.


That's because it's the law. Where there is a bike lane, you car drivers should expect not to have bicycles in the road, and cyclists shouldn't have to worry about cars in the bike lane.

Simple enough for you?
 
2013-01-01 03:09:09 PM  

joonyer: What also sucks is that laws vary as to what constitutes a bike lane. In some cities, it doesn't need to be painted or anything, it's simply a given that the farthest right 3 feet of pavement is the bike lane. This can cause a wee bit of confusion on the road.


What people think:
"Cyclists keep to the right"

What the law usually says:
"Keep to the right as far as practicable, except when... (long list of otherwise)"

What many motorists think:
"Anywhere outside the furthest right 3 inches of paved surface is illegal."

What idiot motorists think:
"Fark you, you don't pay taxes. Get offa my road!"

What rational cyclists think and do:
"Keep to the right unless it is dangerous or I need to turn left"

What idiot cyclists, and POB's think:
"Fark you, I don't care, I ride where and how I want"

Which one are you?

/the vast majority of adult cyclists are or have been also motorists
 
2013-01-01 03:15:44 PM  

firefly212: And you'll see cars parked in bike lanes, passing in bike lanes, or just driving merrily along in them tailgating bicyclists who they think have no business being in "their" road.


True, but at least where I live, all of those behaviors will (deservedly) get a ticketing...
 
2013-01-01 03:16:04 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Skarekrough: From a pure logic standpoint it is hard to notice something that is well out of my view.

Very true.

Skarekrough: I notice bike riders because ...

Because of this there's a tendency to violate laws they should be observing ...

So, in conclusion, they're more likely to incur greater damage, prone to ignore driving laws because of the basic laws of physics in a situation they have willingly inserted themselves into, and they're whiny about it.

But (to me) those comments sound like you're saying 'most cyclists'. When in reality, it is just the ones you see and notice.


The world is filled with good examples. They have a tendency to become part of the background. It is the rare exceptions which give the others a bad name.

Last night when I was driving home I didn't notice the cars that did what they should have done. But I did notice the jackass in a black Nissan Pathfinder who turned into my lane where I had the right of way.

I was a suburban bicycle commuter for years. For a few months my schedule coincided with one of the Lance Armstrong wannabe's who would put himself in the middle of the road where the typical speed limit was 45 MPH. He would pass me as I made my way home along the shoulder and give me a wave thinking we had some sort of kinship. I knew the ire of those drivers he was holding up as they were just trying to make their way home would inherently also get directed upon me as well even though I was being a member of the "good example" group.
 
2013-01-01 03:24:45 PM  
Thus far, the attitude fron bikets in this thread seems to be 'since drivers set their cruise 7 MPH over the limit on an empty stretch of Interstate that means I can do whatever the fark I want!'
 
2013-01-01 03:28:08 PM  

firefly212: cmb53208: Fluid: Is there no such thing as separate bicycle lanes on US roads? I'm not really up-to-date on how that kinda thing works in other countries.

On the streets in many US cities there are separate lanes for bicycles. And next to these lanes you will see bikers merrily going down the sidewalk with no regard for the pedestrians who use them.

And you'll see cars parked in bike lanes, passing in bike lanes, or just driving merrily along in them tailgating bicyclists who they think have no business being in "their" road.


Bull shiat.
 
2013-01-01 03:33:01 PM  

YouPeopleAreCrazy: joonyer: What also sucks is that laws vary as to what constitutes a bike lane. In some cities, it doesn't need to be painted or anything, it's simply a given that the farthest right 3 feet of pavement is the bike lane. This can cause a wee bit of confusion on the road.

What people think:
"Cyclists keep to the right"

What the law usually says:
"Keep to the right as far as practicable, except when... (long list of otherwise)"

What many motorists think:
"Anywhere outside the furthest right 3 inches of paved surface is illegal."

What idiot motorists think:
"Fark you, you don't pay taxes. Get offa my road!"

What rational cyclists think and do:
"Keep to the right unless it is dangerous or I need to turn left"

What idiot cyclists, and POB's think:
"Fark you, I don't care, I ride where and how I want"

Which one are you?

/the vast majority of adult cyclists are or have been also motorists


That pretty much sums it up. Well said.

By the way, everyone says they're a rational cyclist until no one is looking or they're anonymous. ;)
 
2013-01-01 03:34:55 PM  

joonyer: If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car.


So, you're saying that they should take the lane, and that drivers shouldn't pass them, except when there is a dotted yellow line in their lane?
 
2013-01-01 03:34:59 PM  

Krazikarl: Good subject change when you didn't like the direction that the conversation was going.

Yes, I agree that the assholes are often, or even usually, the driver. Yes, I agree that a ton of drivers are clueless and will yell at bikers to "get off the road" even when the bikers are 100% in the right.

But what does this have to do with the argument that bikers should be ticketed when they break the law in a way that screws over others? Hint: it's a complete non sequitur.


No its not.  Most fark'rs have an irrational hatred of cyclists and have this entitled opinion that the only thing that deserves to be on the road are their fat asses.  That hatred usually stems from somewhere else.  Its about time we talk about where ...

/they also don't have a clue who pays for the roads and how taxes work but I digress
 
2013-01-01 03:39:33 PM  

Psycoholic_Slag: Zarquon's Flat Tire: I love the "You drive 5 over the speed limit so I get to disregard stop lights and signs" argument.

I know! It's almost like people are hypocrites and then they get all butthurt when you point it out.


Let's have a contest, I'll drive 75 in a 70 zone, you run every stop light and stop sign you come to. We'll see who lives longest.
 
2013-01-01 03:48:22 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: joonyer: If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car.

So, you're saying that they should take the lane, and that drivers shouldn't pass them, except when there is a dotted yellow line in their lane?


I'm not saying what should or should not happen. I'm just stating what the law implies in most places I've ridden. I drive and I ride and I live in a very bike friendly city(Fort Collins, CO). If I find myself riding in the actual car traffic lane(I define this as "the car traffic behind me either can't or won't pass me because my bike is taking up too much of their lane to do it safely), I do my best to keep up with car speeds, be predictable and deliberate in my riding(don't lock 'em up, you gonna get crushed), and get my ass back to a bike lane as soon as safely possible.
 
2013-01-01 03:50:56 PM  

joonyer: Forbidden Doughnut: Krazikarl: Which brings me to an actual question:

It it legal for a cyclist to pass everybody on the right at a light, and then stop at the light? I honestly don't know.

That's a good question. I'm pretty sure in my State ( Oregon ) that is legal only IF there is a marked bicycle lane.

/ * couldn't find a clear answer in the ODOT-published cyclist's manual *

That's a bingo. If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car. If they have an actual bike lane, they are free to pass car traffic. I see a lot of riders doing both, which sucks because one second they are within their rights and the law, and the next second they're totally illegal and creating a major hazard. I avoid doing that when I'm riding on the road.


Motorists don't like it when cyclists take their place in a line of traffic either. Cyclists don't accelerate as fast or have the top speed of cars and will hold up a lane of traffic in many cases if they take a place in line. I prefer to follow the rules set up in the Uniform Vehicle Code, which allow a cyclist to judge when to stay to the right and out of the way and when to "take a lane" when there isn't enough room to share one. This seems to be what you see cyclists doing, and it is usually legal unless your state has deviated from the federal recommended Uniform Vehicle Code.
 
2013-01-01 03:51:27 PM  

Kraftwerk Orange: joonyer: If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car.

So, you're saying that they should take the lane, and that drivers shouldn't pass them, except when there is a dotted yellow line in their lane?


Also, what I was really trying to say in my original statement is that cyclists should not be dodging and weaving from the car traffic lane, to the bike lane, to the sidewalk, and back again, just so they don't have to slow down for anything. That be some boolsheet.

/comma quota exceeded
 
2013-01-01 03:55:05 PM  
Had a guy in a car try to hit me once while I was skating, but he was in a Miata and I didn't want to damage it.....
 
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