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(About.com)   Because cyclists aren't bad enough. Illinois set to classify inline skaters as "vehicles" and allow them to to skate on the streets, ignore traffic laws   (inlineskating.about.com) divider line 198
    More: Stupid, Illinois, Illinois General Assembly, safety hazards, skates  
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3165 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Jan 2013 at 12:06 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



198 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-01 11:15:33 AM
If they are legally vehicles, does running one over count as vandalism rather than assault?
 
2013-01-01 11:25:00 AM
Sounds like weight warfare to me. All the athletic, thin, pretty people  going too slow for the fat, slothenly uggos in their metal monsters.
 
Pud [TotalFark]
2013-01-01 11:27:33 AM

ZAZ: If they are legally vehicles, does running one over count as vandalism rather than assault?


I'm pretty sure that would be assault. However spray painting or keying them would probably only be a misdemeanor vandalism charge. So it could turn out to be fun after all.
 
2013-01-01 12:09:17 PM
Roller girl she's taking chances...
 
2013-01-01 12:09:48 PM
I hope this means they can get DUIs.

Of course the average inline skater is so goddamned clumsy it'd be hard to pick out the drunk ones.
 
2013-01-01 12:10:40 PM
I'd say something about them needing to follow the laws when on the road, but then I realized this was Illinois...
 
2013-01-01 12:11:39 PM
All of the same 'bicycle vs car' arguments hold up for 'skaters vs bicycles'. The only difference is the smug cyclists are the ones who are going to be annoyed.

For all the 'share the road' stuff they throw around, the second you go into their 'bicycle lane' you'd damn better be on a bicycle or they'll eat you alive.
 
2013-01-01 12:16:59 PM
Given some of the road conditions in Chicago, I predict a lot of inline skaters falling flat on their faces and getting run over by a city bus or a taxi driver when they hit one of the several million potholes that exist on our roads.
 
2013-01-01 12:19:00 PM

Ikam: Given some of the road conditions in Chicago, I predict a lot of inline skaters falling flat on their faces and getting run over by a city bus or a taxi driver when they hit one of the several million potholes that exist on our roads.


Hell, I'd pay a dollar to see that.....
 
2013-01-01 12:19:23 PM
If only cyclists observed all the traffic laws as diligently as motorists!
 
2013-01-01 12:21:18 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: All of the same 'bicycle vs car' arguments hold up for 'skaters vs bicycles'. The only difference is the smug cyclists are the ones who are going to be annoyed.

For all the 'share the road' stuff they throw around, the second you go into their 'bicycle lane' you'd damn better be on a bicycle or they'll eat you alive.


All the UFC and MMA and WWE crap on television when I would pay real money to see 'skater vs. cyclist' cage matches!
 
2013-01-01 12:24:12 PM
Those guys can go pretty fast.  Not as fast as a bike, but close.
 
2013-01-01 12:24:40 PM
january 1 and already had a run in with a cyclist that thought the stop sign was a 'suggestion'.

four way stop...i got there first. start to go and a biker blows thru from my right and starts yelling at me for having the audacity to slow him down.

he yelled at me that he was in 'training'. i guess it is training to be dead quicker.
 
2013-01-01 12:26:33 PM
One word: Targets
 
2013-01-01 12:27:36 PM
Illinois motorist suck when it comes to anyone else on the road.
Motorcycles cyclists rollerblading or truck driving, If you are not in a car you do not belong.
 
2013-01-01 12:28:48 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: january 1 and already had a run in with a cyclist that thought the stop sign was a 'suggestion'.

four way stop...i got there first. start to go and a biker blows thru from my right and starts yelling at me for having the audacity to slow him down.

he yelled at me that he was in 'training'. i guess it is training to be dead quicker.


Who knew that you had to train to be a d-bag?
 
2013-01-01 12:29:03 PM
This is all an enforcement issue. If people believe laws are enforced, they don't break them.

Nobody driving a car runs a red or stop sign even if there is clearly no other car in the area because they know if the police catch them, there are going to be serious repercussions.

Cyclists never get pulled over and ticketed for breaking traffic laws; they conclude the laws are never enforced; and thus, don't think twice about breaking them.

Cities need to start putting traffic cops on corners and ticketing bicyclists.
 
2013-01-01 12:30:21 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: For all the 'share the road' stuff they throw around, the second you go into their 'bicycle lane' you'd damn better be on a bicycle or they'll eat you alive.


Why would they do that? From what I've seen, the douche bags would rather ride three abreast on the road and block as much traffic as possible rather than use the well marked bike lane right next to them. They biatch about the lack of bike lanes, and when they get built, refuse to use them.

/especially in rock creek park in monkey county, md
 
2013-01-01 12:30:28 PM
Same road, Same rules, Same taxes..

Buy a license plate for your bike, or get it the fark off the street!
 
2013-01-01 12:31:19 PM
We can't even get cars to follow traffic laws, why are we pretending bicyclists are the big problem?

/got a speeding ticket on a bike
44 in a 20
 
2013-01-01 12:31:43 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: All of the same 'bicycle vs car' arguments hold up for 'skaters vs bicycles'. The only difference is the smug cyclists are the ones who are going to be annoyed.

For all the 'share the road' stuff they throw around, the second you go into their 'bicycle lane' you'd damn better be on a bicycle or they'll eat you alive.


As a non-car-owning, high property-tax-paying urbanite, damn straight. You can expect me to be right in the left-turn lane, too.

I'm a cyclist who would be fine with licensing if I thought it would pay for more bike lanes or better standards for both bike and car drivers.

Now, electric bikes? That's something cyclists and drivers can hate together. Worst of both worlds from the view from my saddle, and they don't yet require a licence despite being more of a "vehicle" than a bike.
 
2013-01-01 12:31:52 PM
I'm sure this new law will be successful.

Just look how well their gun bans have worked so far.
 
2013-01-01 12:32:34 PM

Petit_Merdeux: If only cyclists observed all the traffic laws as diligently as motorists!


That's funny right there!
 
2013-01-01 12:33:38 PM

thornhill: This is all an enforcement issue. If people believe laws are enforced, they don't break them.

Nobody driving a car runs a red or stop sign even if there is clearly no other car in the area because they know if the police catch them, there are going to be serious repercussions.

Cyclists never get pulled over and ticketed for breaking traffic laws; they conclude the laws are never enforced; and thus, don't think twice about breaking them.

Cities need to start putting traffic cops on corners and ticketing bicyclists.


They do this periodically in Portland, but not nearly enough to discourage docuhbaggery. There's always the counter argument "but cars break laws too" bullshiat from the cyclist crowd.

Bad behavior of others doesn't absolve you of responsibility for your own actions.
 
2013-01-01 12:34:26 PM
This will end well.

/Don't touch the sarcasm. It burns.
 
2013-01-01 12:35:27 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: january 1 and already had a run in with a cyclist that thought the stop sign was a 'suggestion'.

four way stop...i got there first. start to go and a biker blows thru from my right and starts yelling at me for having the audacity to slow him down.

he yelled at me that he was in 'training'. i guess it is training to be dead quicker.


I would concur, except I hope that's the exception. The reality is that you likely don't see cyclists who follow the traffic rules. For me on a bike doing 15-20 mph, the biggest danger has shifted from getting door prized to pimp-slapping women who jaywalk with their nose in a text message.

I wonder what the Doppler-shifted sound of me yelling "I could've been a car, you moron" sounds like?
 
2013-01-01 12:36:06 PM

Katolu: Tanukis_Parachute: january 1 and already had a run in with a cyclist that thought the stop sign was a 'suggestion'.

four way stop...i got there first. start to go and a biker blows thru from my right and starts yelling at me for having the audacity to slow him down.

he yelled at me that he was in 'training'. i guess it is training to be dead quicker.

Who knew that you had to train to be a d-bag?


Chris Brown?
 
2013-01-01 12:36:47 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: For all the 'share the road' stuff they throw around, the second you go into their 'bicycle lane' you'd damn better be on a bicycle or they'll eat you alive.


Do you also get angry at pedestrians for thinking you should stay off the sidewalk?
 
2013-01-01 12:37:52 PM

Romeo_Santana: Same road, Same rules, Same proportional taxes..

Buy a license plate for your bike, or get it the fark off the street!


Locally, reg fees are by vehicle value. Other places by weight or horsepower. You do want to be fair in those fees, right?
Here's the yearly dime for my bike. Happy now?
 
2013-01-01 12:39:02 PM
A cyclist will not do the damage a motorist will do.
Nor does a cyclist travel as fast as a motorist.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
 
2013-01-01 12:39:43 PM
I used to skateboard in the bicycle lanes in Philly. No cyclist ever gave me crap for it. Cars, on the other hand, would TRY and run you over. I have no problem with rollerbladers or anyone else with wheels using these lanes. Skateboarding in the road is much safer for yourself and pedestrians...Just make sure you have some skills first...
 
2013-01-01 12:39:47 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Romeo_Santana: Same road, Same rules, Same proportional taxes..

Buy a license plate for your bike, or get it the fark off the street!

Locally, reg fees are by vehicle value. Other places by weight or horsepower. You do want to be fair in those fees, right?
Here's the yearly dime for my bike. Happy now?


Don't forget a proportional cost of enforcement of the rules cyclists regularly ignore.
 
2013-01-01 12:41:27 PM
Is there no such thing as separate bicycle lanes on US roads? I'm not really up-to-date on how that kinda thing works in other countries.
 
2013-01-01 12:42:34 PM

thornhill: This is all an enforcement issue. If people believe laws are enforced, they don't break them.

Nobody driving a car runs a red or stop sign even if there is clearly no other car in the area because they know if the police catch them, there are going to be serious repercussions.

Cyclists never get pulled over and ticketed for breaking traffic laws; they conclude the laws are never enforced; and thus, don't think twice about breaking them.

Cities need to start putting traffic cops on corners and ticketing bicyclists.


I've wondered why they aren't required to put a license plate on their bicycles. Obviously, not every bicycle - the backlash would be enormous if they tried to make you license your 6 year old's training bike. But require licenses for bicycles that travel on roads where the speed limit is greater than 25. I live in St. Louis. I doubt our problem is nearly as bad as it is in other cities, but there are enough here to make it an issue. I've seen them travel in packs and block lanes, run lights, run stop signs (that one is the worst - they treat them like they are completely optional), and there seems to be a complete disregard for hand signals.

You make a great point. There are no consequences for breaking the law and they know it.
 
2013-01-01 12:43:13 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Romeo_Santana: Same road, Same rules, Same proportional taxes..

Buy a license plate for your bike, or get it the fark off the street!

Locally, reg fees are by vehicle value. Other places by weight or horsepower. You do want to be fair in those fees, right?
Here's the yearly dime for my bike. Happy now?


My bike is more expensive than some people's cars...

Also, around here vehicle registration is a flat fee. I could be driving the $600 clunker I had in college or a Lexus and I'd pay the same amount.
 
2013-01-01 12:44:53 PM

Fluid: Is there no such thing as separate bicycle lanes on US roads? I'm not really up-to-date on how that kinda thing works in other countries.


Some have them some don't. I live near Philly and they just started putting them in around the city, farking up traffic pretty good, the bikers hardly use them and are still in the damn way all the time.
 
2013-01-01 12:46:00 PM

sloshed_again: A cyclist will not do the damage a motorist will do.
Nor does a cyclist travel as fast as a motorist.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it!


A cyclist still has brakes on their bike.  They need to learn to use them when they have the red light, especially when there are pedestrians in the crosswalk.
 
2013-01-01 12:47:01 PM

thornhill: This is all an enforcement issue. If people believe laws are enforced, they don't break them.

Nobody driving a car runs a red or stop sign even if there is clearly no other car in the area because they know if the police catch them, there are going to be serious repercussions.

Cyclists never get pulled over and ticketed for breaking traffic laws; they conclude the laws are never enforced; and thus, don't think twice about breaking them.

Cities need to start putting traffic cops on corners and ticketing bicyclists.


They do this once a year or so at the college I work at. Its always funny listening to the bicyclists whine about getting as ticket for riding the wrong way on a one way street.
 
2013-01-01 12:47:06 PM
Im sure this will work just as well for roller-bladers as cyclists...

Just remember to spray it with PAM so the spandex, santorum and smug doesn't ruin your paint.

www.snowplowpartscanada.com
 
2013-01-01 12:47:38 PM

thornhill: This is all an enforcement issue. If people believe laws are enforced, they don't break them.

Nobody driving a car runs a red or stop sign even if there is clearly no other car in the area because they know if the police catch them, there are going to be serious repercussions.

Cyclists never get pulled over and ticketed for breaking traffic laws; they conclude the laws are never enforced; and thus, don't think twice about breaking them.

Cities need to start putting traffic cops on corners and ticketing bicyclists.


They should double tap them for both running the light and jay walking because of the high likelyhood of death if they get themself hit
 
2013-01-01 12:48:38 PM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Don't forget a proportional cost of enforcement of the rules cyclists regularly ignore.


As opposed to the speeders and red light runners in motor vehicles? Please.
Now add in the cost to take care of the damage done by the respective vehicles. 200lbs (me+bike) crashing into something does not begin to approach the damage of 4600lbs (me+F-150) crashing into something.

I fully agree that a LOT of cyclists routinely do stupid shiat. Blow red lights and stop signs, ride the wrong direction, etc, etc, etc. Asshats.
But so do motor vehicle operators. I could pick any random 1000 yard stretch of street here, and I would be surprised if the percentage of MV operators breaking some law was under 80%.

You notice the bike riders, because they annoy you. If one were to follow you around, how many laws do you break on a normal day?
 
2013-01-01 12:49:37 PM

Fluid: Is there no such thing as separate bicycle lanes on US roads? I'm not really up-to-date on how that kinda thing works in other countries.


I see you're from Europe.
No, things are different here.
There are some bike lanes, but they're few and far between.

Only die hard cyclists and poor people ride bikes here. Not nearly as popular as they are in Europe.
 
2013-01-01 12:51:06 PM

Too Pretty For Prison: thornhill: This is all an enforcement issue. If people believe laws are enforced, they don't break them.

Nobody driving a car runs a red or stop sign even if there is clearly no other car in the area because they know if the police catch them, there are going to be serious repercussions.

Cyclists never get pulled over and ticketed for breaking traffic laws; they conclude the laws are never enforced; and thus, don't think twice about breaking them.

Cities need to start putting traffic cops on corners and ticketing bicyclists.

I've wondered why they aren't required to put a license plate on their bicycles. Obviously, not every bicycle - the backlash would be enormous if they tried to make you license your 6 year old's training bike. But require licenses for bicycles that travel on roads where the speed limit is greater than 25. I live in St. Louis. I doubt our problem is nearly as bad as it is in other cities, but there are enough here to make it an issue. I've seen them travel in packs and block lanes, run lights, run stop signs (that one is the worst - they treat them like they are completely optional), and there seems to be a complete disregard for hand signals.

You make a great point. There are no consequences for breaking the law and they know it.


I know some cities have tried to do this, but there is always backlash from the cycling community, that people own lots of bikes, it will be an unfair tax, etc.

I think that if people did have tags on their bikes, then they'd think the likeness that they'd be ticketed for illegal behavior would be greater.

/and I say this all as an avid cyclist
//when weather gets warm I bike from the UWS in NYC up to the Tappan Zee Bridge Bridge
///and I do stop at most traffic lights -- only ones I run are on Riverside drive where there is a light but the intersection is a T, so there is no traffic going through it.
 
2013-01-01 12:51:56 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Don't forget a proportional cost of enforcement of the rules cyclists regularly ignore.

As opposed to the speeders and red light runners in motor vehicles? Please.
Now add in the cost to take care of the damage done by the respective vehicles. 200lbs (me+bike) crashing into something does not begin to approach the damage of 4600lbs (me+F-150) crashing into something.

I fully agree that a LOT of cyclists routinely do stupid shiat. Blow red lights and stop signs, ride the wrong direction, etc, etc, etc. Asshats.
But so do motor vehicle operators. I could pick any random 1000 yard stretch of street here, and I would be surprised if the percentage of MV operators breaking some law was under 80%.

You notice the bike riders, because they annoy you. If one were to follow you around, how many laws do you break on a normal day?


I completely agree with this. To all those saying, "OMG, WHY U NO GIVE TICKETS TO CYCLISTS WHO RUN RED LIGHT?" I would love to see how many of you jaywalk.
 
2013-01-01 12:52:28 PM
Since I ride mostly on sparsely traveled country roads I don't have too many run-ins with motorists. I'm not a bike snob, I just enjoy riding (and racing) my bike. (I also enjoy driving my cars.) Since I really do have "training" rides, I prefer to not have to stop every block for stop lights/signs. Riding the country gives me miles and miles of uninterrupted riding. I do treat country stop signs as yield signs when I can see that it is safe from all directions. (Being from the midwest, it sucks once the corn gets high. I have to slow to a crawl at even non-marked intersections.)

In the city I ride in the road but don't hog a lane. Personally I'd like the cars to get around me as quickly as possible. Less chance for them to hit me from the front. I typically avoid bike lanes since they are just the collection lanes for where the street sweepers push the busted glass, etc. There are a couple places where I chose the bike lane instead of the heavier traveled road. And it's annoying when I have to either swerve into the road or ride through the grass to avoid the group of joggers taking up the whole bike lane.

The biggest problem I have with assh*le motorists are the guys in jacked up trucks with 'truck balls' that like to pass me (or a group) slowly then hammer it leaving us in a cloud of diesel smoke. I guess that kind of thing makes them feel better about being 100lbs overweight when they see a group of fit guys riding bikes. The other thing that's annoying is these motorists think they're experts in traffic laws. In my area it's illegal to ride a bike on a sidewalk and it is legal for cyclists to ride in a double single-file line (just like motorcycles). Despite this we get yelled at to go single file or get on the sidewalk quite a bit. All of this in the short amount of time we're riding on city streets to get out to the country.

Living in a college town I see a lot of what probably gets people upset about cyclists. Unfortunately people seem to generalize. Once they see one idiot cyclist, they lump us all together.

/bored morning
//needs to get on the bike today
 
2013-01-01 12:52:52 PM

ZAZ: If they are legally vehicles, does running one over count as vandalism rather than assault?


Please Please Please people of Illinois,  Buy dash cams! The Comedy potential of this law is too great to go un-recorded
 
2013-01-01 12:52:55 PM
It's too early for a bike hate thread.

I'm gonna pull on my lycra shorts, get on my bike and run some god damn stop signs.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-01 12:53:20 PM
They do this once a year or so at the college I work at. Its always funny listening to the bicyclists whine about getting as ticket for riding the wrong way on a one way street.

Boston police announced they were not enforcing traffic laws against bicyclists. Boston University police stepped in, to the surprise of students. One of the local papers had a Schadenfreude-inducing whinefest.

Three college students have died riding into or under trucks and buses so far this last year in the area around BU, with none of the drivers yet found at fault.
 
2013-01-01 12:54:41 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Don't forget a proportional cost of enforcement of the rules cyclists regularly ignore.

As opposed to the speeders and red light runners in motor vehicles? Please.
Now add in the cost to take care of the damage done by the respective vehicles. 200lbs (me+bike) crashing into something does not begin to approach the damage of 4600lbs (me+F-150) crashing into something.

I fully agree that a LOT of cyclists routinely do stupid shiat. Blow red lights and stop signs, ride the wrong direction, etc, etc, etc. Asshats.
But so do motor vehicle operators. I could pick any random 1000 yard stretch of street here, and I would be surprised if the percentage of MV operators breaking some law was under 80%.

You notice the bike riders, because they annoy you. If one were to follow you around, how many laws do you break on a normal day?


I would say the laws that never go enforced with MV are the ones there is always outrage against, such as talking on a cell phone while driving.

People act like it's their god given right to talk or text while driving; 9 out of 10 times when I see someone drifting into another lane or obstructing traffic because they're going way under the speed limit, they're on their phone.

So it's kinda the same deal as cyclists. We have laws, but if enough people think they shouldn't be enforced, they never are.
 
2013-01-01 12:54:45 PM

archichris: ZAZ: If they are legally vehicles, does running one over count as vandalism rather than assault?

Please Please Please people of Illinois,  Buy dash cams! The Comedy potential of this law is too great to go un-recorded


I know I'm looking forward to some great headlines in the next few months on here.....
 
2013-01-01 12:57:51 PM
Wait. Inline skates are still a thing?
 
2013-01-01 12:58:56 PM
If they are vehicles then they need licenses and insurance when they cause an accident and need to fix my car.

/Chicagoan
 
2013-01-01 12:58:56 PM

Fluid: Is there no such thing as separate bicycle lanes on US roads? I'm not really up-to-date on how that kinda thing works in other countries.


Rarely. Why? Because adding them in now would be a major expense. The streets, parking lots, and buildings are already there. Putting in a separate bike lane means something else has to move or shrink, at major expense. With no real guarantee of anyone using that new bike lane.
 
2013-01-01 12:59:13 PM
One last thought:

What we really need in the United States are dedicated bike lanes where there is a median divider between it and the motor vehicle lane, and traffic signals for bikes. Lots or European cities do this.

It obviously prevents both bikes and cars from wandering into the other's lane, minimizing the potential for accidents.

Example of the median divider:

media.tumblr.com
 
2013-01-01 12:59:58 PM

The Angry Hand of God: YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Don't forget a proportional cost of enforcement of the rules cyclists regularly ignore.

As opposed to the speeders and red light runners in motor vehicles? Please.
Now add in the cost to take care of the damage done by the respective vehicles. 200lbs (me+bike) crashing into something does not begin to approach the damage of 4600lbs (me+F-150) crashing into something.

I fully agree that a LOT of cyclists routinely do stupid shiat. Blow red lights and stop signs, ride the wrong direction, etc, etc, etc. Asshats.
But so do motor vehicle operators. I could pick any random 1000 yard stretch of street here, and I would be surprised if the percentage of MV operators breaking some law was under 80%.

You notice the bike riders, because they annoy you. If one were to follow you around, how many laws do you break on a normal day?

I completely agree with this. To all those saying, "OMG, WHY U NO GIVE TICKETS TO CYCLISTS WHO RUN RED LIGHT?" I would love to see how many of you jaywalk.


I don't jaywalk, largely because of bicyclists who blow through lights like they own the road.
 
2013-01-01 01:01:02 PM

Petit_Merdeux: If only cyclists observed all the traffic laws as diligently as motorists!


thurstonxhowell: Do you also get angry at pedestrians for thinking you should stay off the sidewalk?


Sarcasmatron is challenged by at least one of these posts

As an old, very fit user/owner of just about every form of conveyance implicit in this discussion I assert that the problem with all of them is that over a long enough period every single operator of any of them is at best an oblivious fool and at worst an ignorant incompetent inconsiderate waste of life.

/get teh hell off my road, sidewalk, bike lane, bike path, truck stop, runway, skate park, farmer's market and lawn,

//that is all
 
2013-01-01 01:01:32 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: january 1 and already had a run in with a cyclist that thought the stop sign was a 'suggestion'.

four way stop...i got there first. start to go and a biker blows thru from my right and starts yelling at me for having the audacity to slow him down.

he yelled at me that he was in 'training'. i guess it is training to be dead quicker.



Wait a sec...

So you're at a stop, this guy "blows thru", but stil has time to yell at you for slowing him down, and then tells you that he's training, all while he's moving at a high rate of speed perpendicular to your direction of travel?

Now I'm not saying there's something fishy about your story, but there's something fishy about your story...
 
2013-01-01 01:01:46 PM

Fluid: Is there no such thing as separate bicycle lanes on US roads? I'm not really up-to-date on how that kinda thing works in other countries.


A lot of major cities have them, but as I noted in my post above, there are rarely median dividers between the lanes. As a result, you often have cars using the bike lane as a temporary parking spot, causing bikes to go into the car lanes. Also, when bikers want to pass a group of bikers in front of them, without the median they can use the car lane as a passing lane.
 
2013-01-01 01:02:33 PM
Most motorists appreciate the cruising through rather than the waiting.
I have stopped at a 4 way and let a car slip through on ice.
What would could have happened we both would have regretted.
 
2013-01-01 01:03:41 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: You notice the bike riders, because they annoy you. If one were to follow you around, how many laws do you break on a normal day?


I notice bike riders because when they do something stupid and I almost end up creaming them the potential for death or harm is exponentially higher compared to someone in a car.

Because of this there's a tendency to violate laws they should be observing because they feel they're not as safe as others on the road. The refuse to accept the personal responsibility for a situation they have willingly agreed to put themselves in.

I also notice them because when an incident occurs they have more of a tendency to blow it out of proportion (become verbally or physically violent) compared to the reaction from another motorist.

So, in conclusion, they're more likely to incur greater damage, prone to ignore driving laws because of the basic laws of physics in a situation they have willingly inserted themselves into, and they're whiny about it.

If you're looking for why people driving cars hate bicyclists you can start right there.
 
2013-01-01 01:04:39 PM
"friends don't let friends fruit boot"

they are fruit boots.
 
2013-01-01 01:07:14 PM

you have pee hands: I hope this means they can get DUIs.

Of course the average inline skater is so goddamned clumsy it'd be hard to pick out the drunk ones.


I wonder if you can be charged, if you have access to skates, while "under the influence"?

$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$
 
2013-01-01 01:07:38 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Don't forget a proportional cost of enforcement of the rules cyclists regularly ignore.

As opposed to the speeders and red light runners in motor vehicles? Please.
Now add in the cost to take care of the damage done by the respective vehicles. 200lbs (me+bike) crashing into something does not begin to approach the damage of 4600lbs (me+F-150) crashing into something.

I fully agree that a LOT of cyclists routinely do stupid shiat. Blow red lights and stop signs, ride the wrong direction, etc, etc, etc. Asshats.
But so do motor vehicle operators. I could pick any random 1000 yard stretch of street here, and I would be surprised if the percentage of MV operators breaking some law was under 80%.

You notice the bike riders, because they annoy you. If one were to follow you around, how many laws do you break on a normal day?


This is a big part of it. Everyone on the road is awful, not just cyclists, but you notice cyclists. I've biked a certain neighborhood route nearly five times a week for a few months now and a hilariously small percentage of people ever comes to a complete stop at the 4-way stop signs unless someone is visible approaching on the crossing road.

Because of this it seems like most drivers don't even want a cyclist to fully stop because they don't want to wait for a biker to accelerate across the intersection. I come to a momentary full stop as (just long enough to stop without having to put my foot down), and just doing that I have gotten honked at. When I am coming up to an intersection where someone else has the right of way, 80% of the time they will sit there waving frantically for me to go despite me having a stop sign that I have to obey.

That isn't even to mention the absurd designs of bike infrastructure which are just as bad if not worse as stupid car infrastructure decisions. You have bike lanes which are in blind spots for driveways, bike lanes going straight that are on the right side of right-turn-only lanes, and even a combination bike-lane/parking-area (seriously, who thought that was a good idea?)
 
2013-01-01 01:10:09 PM

Skarekrough: So, in conclusion, they're more likely to incur greater damage, prone to ignore driving laws because of the basic laws of physics in a situation they have willingly inserted themselves into, and they're whiny about it.

If you're looking for why people driving cars hate bicyclists you can start right there.


What you also don't notice is the commuter cyclist riding one block over, on a residential street. Obeying all the laws, slipping quietly through town. Why is he over there? Because it is a much easier ride, as opposed to being an idiot on the main through street.

But that guy never appears on your radar.
 
2013-01-01 01:12:01 PM

Derigiberble: That isn't even to mention the absurd designs of bike infrastructure which are just as bad if not worse as stupid car infrastructure decisions. You have bike lanes which are in blind spots for driveways, bike lanes going straight that are on the right side of right-turn-only lanes, and even a combination bike-lane/parking-area (seriously, who thought that was a good idea?)


So much this. There are way more ways to design a dangerous bike system than to build a safe, effective one.
And traffic designers seem to be determined to build out every possible bad one.
 
2013-01-01 01:13:35 PM

Too Pretty For Prison: thornhill: This is all an enforcement issue. If people believe laws are enforced, they don't break them.

Nobody driving a car runs a red or stop sign even if there is clearly no other car in the area because they know if the police catch them, there are going to be serious repercussions.

Cyclists never get pulled over and ticketed for breaking traffic laws; they conclude the laws are never enforced; and thus, don't think twice about breaking them.

Cities need to start putting traffic cops on corners and ticketing bicyclists.

I've wondered why they aren't required to put a license plate on their bicycles. Obviously, not every bicycle - the backlash would be enormous if they tried to make you license your 6 year old's training bike. But require licenses for bicycles that travel on roads where the speed limit is greater than 25. I live in St. Louis. I doubt our problem is nearly as bad as it is in other cities, but there are enough here to make it an issue. I've seen them travel in packs and block lanes, run lights, run stop signs (that one is the worst - they treat them like they are completely optional), and there seems to be a complete disregard for hand signals.

You make a great point. There are no consequences for breaking the law and they know it.


www.microcosmdistribution.com

/doncha think
 
2013-01-01 01:14:04 PM

ZAZ: If they are legally vehicles, does running one over count as vandalism rather than assault?


If you damage the vehicle... which is the skates and the bikes. I'm pretty sure running a motorcycle or car off the road and damaging the person inside counts as assault.
 
2013-01-01 01:16:28 PM

thornhill: This is all an enforcement issue. If people believe laws are enforced, they don't break them.

Nobody driving a car runs a red or stop sign even if there is clearly no other car in the area because they know if the police catch them, there are going to be serious repercussions.

Cyclists never get pulled over and ticketed for breaking traffic laws; they conclude the laws are never enforced; and thus, don't think twice about breaking them.

Cities need to start putting traffic cops on corners and ticketing bicyclists.


I'll go further: anything more than walking must be registered, licensed and pay a road use tax.

Think mopeds, scooters, rascals, golf carts, bicycles, skates, etc.

Universal applicability of traffic laws.
 
2013-01-01 01:16:37 PM
Illinois just made stop lights optional for motorcycles and bicycles. Link
 
2013-01-01 01:17:28 PM

Too Pretty For Prison: I live in St. Louis. I doubt our problem is nearly as bad as it is in other cities, but there are enough here to make it an issue. I've seen them travel in packs and block lanes, run lights, run stop signs (that one is the worst - they treat them like they are completely optional), and there seems to be a complete disregard for hand signals.


I was visiting your fine town last summer, and driving down a street at 5pm following a pack of bicylists giving them decent room when suddenly one of them just pulled over, into my lane to make a left turn. No signal, no warning, just bam, right in front of me. If I hadn't been paying extremely close attention, he would have ended up bouncing off my front bumper.
 
2013-01-01 01:18:43 PM
Wait... Only inline skates?

cdn.fd.uproxx.com
 
2013-01-01 01:21:50 PM
And the licensing/taxing thing for cycling is asinine. Licensing and/or taxing cyclists would just be a money grab for the sake of grabbing money. Cycling puts no appreciable wear and tear on the roads to justify a tax and making people pay a fee to ride their bike to work instead of their car (that they already pay a fee for) is just going to put more cars on the road.

The enforcement of these fees would be a nightmare. Our city grows by 50,000 college students in the fall. If even 20% of them bring a bike to get around campus that's 10,000 licenses the police have to issue and/or try to enforce. And since they're here for only 8 months a year, is it fair to charge them a fee for the whole year? What about the fact that bikes are only an option (for most) on relatively nice weather days? They'd be here for 8 months but can only really ride their bikes to classes for 6 months out of the year. And what would the penalty be? Impound the bike? A fine? Where would we store the hundreds of bikes they'd impound since it would likely be cheaper to buy a new one at WalMart than pay the $50 fee to get it out of impound and $25 to license it. If you make the fees proportional to a car you'd end up with $1 license fees, meaning it'd cost WAY more to issue the license than the license itself, putting the states even further in debt each year. You can't make the fine less than the license because that just incentivizes people to ride without a license because getting caught is cheaper than the license itself.

Also, without getting into it. There a lot of the 'people with glass houses...' going on here.
I'm sure every bike hater in this thread has never rolled a stop sign, turned right on red at a 'no right on red' turn, gone over a posted speed limit, done a U-turn where it is illegal, illegally changed lanes, or the dozens of other things that you do every day that is technically illegal.

I'd be willing to bet that literally every single time you get in your car, you break at least one traffic law. No matter how stupid you think that law might be.
 
2013-01-01 01:28:55 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: What you also don't notice is the commuter cyclist riding one block over, on a residential street. Obeying all the laws, slipping quietly through town. Why is he over there? Because it is a much easier ride, as opposed to being an idiot on the main through street.

But that guy never appears on your radar.


There are wreckless bikers, and legal bikers, just as there are reckless and legal drivers.

The main difference is when a reckless car driver causes an accident with another car (such as driving full-speed into oncoming traffic), the reckless car driver usually doesn't call in a horde of other wreckless drivers to attack the other person.
 
2013-01-01 01:29:15 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Fluid: Is there no such thing as separate bicycle lanes on US roads? I'm not really up-to-date on how that kinda thing works in other countries.

Rarely. Why? Because adding them in now would be a major expense. The streets, parking lots, and buildings are already there. Putting in a separate bike lane means something else has to move or shrink, at major expense. With no real guarantee of anyone using that new bike lane.


I live on a heavily traveled street that used to have a left turn lane until some genius in the city's engineering department decided that it would be a good route for a bike lane so that the cyclists would stay off the parallel 6 lane street a few blocks over. So they took out the turn lane to make room for the bike lane, but they didn't take out the left turn light. Oh, and they had to repave the street so it would be smooth enough to ride on (during the six months of the year it's not covered in ice and snow). In the end, everyone uses the road as it was marked before, so the cyclists mostly still ride on the sidewalk. *facepalm*
 
2013-01-01 01:29:16 PM

Fluid: Is there no such thing as separate bicycle lanes on US roads? I'm not really up-to-date on how that kinda thing works in other countries.


On the streets in many US cities there are separate lanes for bicycles. And next to these lanes you will see bikers merrily going down the sidewalk with no regard for the pedestrians who use them.
 
2013-01-01 01:31:01 PM

ancker: I'd be willing to bet that literally every single time you get in your car, you break at least one traffic law. No matter how stupid you think that law might be.


I'd be willing to bet that you are wrong.

Also, rolling a stop sign is a bit different than blowing past it going 25 MPH. While both are illegal, one is probably a bit more dangerous. Can you guess which one?
 
2013-01-01 01:32:28 PM

Skarekrough: Because of this there's a tendency to violate laws they should be observing because they feel they're not as safe as others on the road. The refuse to accept the personal responsibility for a situation they have willingly agreed to put themselves in.


What laws are you referring to specifically?  I mean, the traditional butthurt is that bikes run red lights and stop signs all the time.  But, I'm not really aware of any of those douchebags thinking that running a light somehow makes them safer.  They just don't want to be inconvenienced by having to stop.

Skarekrough: I also notice them because when an incident occurs they have more of a tendency to blow it out of proportion (become verbally or physically violent) compared to the reaction from another motorist.


As you said, we're more vulnerable to damage.  If you do something stupid that almost puts a dent in my bumper, I'm not going to be quite as pissed as I am when you do something stupid that almost kills me.
I think I tend to react equally angrily when I'm in my car, but my voice is muffled and my hand gestures are less visible, so it might be less noticeable.
 
2013-01-01 01:33:53 PM

Omnivorous: Illinois just made stop lights optional for motorcycles and bicycles. Link


No, not optional..
At a stop light on a bike, the previous choices were: A) wait forever because it does not register the bike mass (is the light broken?) B) wait until someone else comes along in a car to trigger the signal, C) run the light (breaking the law), or D) wait some unknown period of time until you determine that the light is broken.

This law codifies the 'reasonable wait time' to 2 minutes.
 
2013-01-01 01:33:57 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy:

Locally, reg fees are by vehicle value. Other places by weight or horsepower. You do want to be fair in those fees, right?
Here's the yearly dime for my bike. Happy now?


People who drive are expected to pay registration fees and gas taxes.

People who use public transportation are required to pay a fare to ride the bus, train, or ferry.

Why then shouldn't the bikers be required to pay a fee toward the upkeep of the bike lanes and paths? Since bikers by and large ignore traffic signals, stop signs, and other road users it's the least they could do.
 
2013-01-01 01:34:36 PM
I just think it's bad that cyclists can phase between being a pedestrian and being a road vehicle. That can result in some confusion. "I'm a vehicle! Respect my right to the road. Oh a stop sign. I'm a pedestrian now! I don't have to stop for stop signs."
 
2013-01-01 01:36:02 PM
I'm sure this is a problem outside of Chicago.

Also, if you can't skate close to the posted speed limit or skate on the sidewalks, you should be cited. Just like it was a car.
 
2013-01-01 01:36:40 PM

ancker: And the licensing/taxing thing for cycling is asinine. Licensing and/or taxing cyclists would just be a money grab for the sake of grabbing money. Cycling puts no appreciable wear and tear on the roads to justify a tax and making people pay a fee to ride their bike to work instead of their car (that they already pay a fee for) is just going to put more cars on the road.

The enforcement of these fees would be a nightmare. Our city grows by 50,000 college students in the fall. If even 20% of them bring a bike to get around campus that's 10,000 licenses the police have to issue and/or try to enforce. And since they're here for only 8 months a year, is it fair to charge them a fee for the whole year? What about the fact that bikes are only an option (for most) on relatively nice weather days? They'd be here for 8 months but can only really ride their bikes to classes for 6 months out of the year. And what would the penalty be? Impound the bike? A fine? Where would we store the hundreds of bikes they'd impound since it would likely be cheaper to buy a new one at WalMart than pay the $50 fee to get it out of impound and $25 to license it. If you make the fees proportional to a car you'd end up with $1 license fees, meaning it'd cost WAY more to issue the license than the license itself, putting the states even further in debt each year. You can't make the fine less than the license because that just incentivizes people to ride without a license because getting caught is cheaper than the license itself.

Also, without getting into it. There a lot of the 'people with glass houses...' going on here.
I'm sure every bike hater in this thread has never rolled a stop sign, turned right on red at a 'no right on red' turn, gone over a posted speed limit, done a U-turn where it is illegal, illegally changed lanes, or the dozens of other things that you do every day that is technically illegal.

I'd be willing to bet that literally every single time you get in your car, you break at least one traffic law. No matter how stupid you think that law might be.


Plate the bike like a motorcycle so it goes into the DMV database. If every state plated bicycles this would be much simpler, and the fees would be due in the home state but be legal everywhere

The rest of the argument is the same as for people that own a motorcycle. Even though you can't really drive them all year in places that get winter, you still pay the years registration.

I don't believe in plating bikes, but it wouldn't be that complicated.
 
2013-01-01 01:38:27 PM
I love the "You drive 5 over the speed limit so I get to disregard stop lights and signs" argument.
 
2013-01-01 01:39:54 PM

The Angry Hand of God: I completely agree with this. To all those saying, "OMG, WHY U NO GIVE TICKETS TO CYCLISTS WHO RUN RED LIGHT?" I would love to see how many of you jaywalk.


If you jaywalk such that traffic has to brake for you, you should be ticketed. If you jaywalk and it doesn't affect anybody, who cares?

The same thing with bikes. I don't care if they blow through stop signs and red lights...AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T AFFECT MOTORISTS (OR PEDESTRIANS). But, as soon as they are screwing with the cars (as they frequently do), they should be ticketed every time.

So its perfectly consistent - you break the law and screw somebody else, you get a ticket whether its in a car, on foot, or on a bike/skates.
 
2013-01-01 01:40:46 PM

The Angry Hand of God:

I completely agree with this. To all those saying, "OMG, WHY U NO GIVE TICKETS TO CYCLISTS WHO RUN RED LIGHT?" I would love to see how many of you jaywalk.


Oh I get it, so bikers shouldn't have to stop at red lights because people jaywalk? Speaking as one who walks during non-working hours, I can say that bikers are a pest: get off the sidewalk, stop at red lights and stop signs, then maybe you can biatch about jaywalkers and speeders
 
2013-01-01 01:41:42 PM
Ancker: I'd be willing to bet that literally every single time you get in your car, you break at least one traffic law. No matter how stupid you think that law might be.

One of the Lerner brothers (who ran the suburban newspaper chain in Chicago) had a policeman bet him that he couldn't go around the block without breaking a law. He took the bet, losing when he was driving with only one hand on the steering wheel.
 
2013-01-01 01:42:29 PM
Best damn system I've ever seen keeps the strollers out of the way so the bikes and roller blade folks can duke it out in peace.www.updowntowners.com
 
2013-01-01 01:45:44 PM

thornhill: This is all an enforcement issue. If people believe laws are enforced, they don't break them.

Nobody driving a car runs a red or stop sign even if there is clearly no other car in the area because they know if the police catch them, there are going to be serious repercussions.

Cyclists never get pulled over and ticketed for breaking traffic laws; they conclude the laws are never enforced; and thus, don't think twice about breaking them.

Cities need to start putting traffic cops on corners and ticketing bicyclists.


Or we should start being allowed to drive cars through reds after stop when there clearly aren't other vehicles.
 
2013-01-01 01:46:22 PM

ancker: I'd be willing to bet that literally every single time you get in your car, you break at least one traffic law. No matter how stupid you think that law might be.


As I said above, this argument is silly.

Nobody cares if you break a law if it doesn't affect somebody else. If you roll through a Stop sign when nobody is around, its not big deal. Similarly, nobody really cares if a bike blows through a stop sign when the road is empty.

However, it IS a big deal if you break the law such that it affects everybody else on the damn road. This is what bikers do when they regularly blow through stop signs and lights such that cars have to brake for them.  Cars generally don't get to break motoring laws such that it screws everybody else on the road, but some bikers seem to think that its their God given right to break whatever law they want even if it screws over other vehicles.
 
2013-01-01 01:46:34 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: I love the "You drive 5 over the speed limit so I get to disregard stop lights and signs" argument.


No, that's not the argument.
 
2013-01-01 01:50:58 PM

thornhill: This is all an enforcement issue. If people believe laws are enforced, they don't break them.

Nobody driving a car runs a red or stop sign even if there is clearly no other car in the area because they know if the police catch them, there are going to be serious repercussions.

Cyclists never get pulled over and ticketed for breaking traffic laws; they conclude the laws are never enforced; and thus, don't think twice about breaking them.

Cities need to start putting traffic cops on corners and ticketing bicyclists.


I imagine a police-issued potato-cannon that fires a broomstick into their spokes from up to 100 feet away
 
2013-01-01 01:52:36 PM

Krazikarl: ancker: I'd be willing to bet that literally every single time you get in your car, you break at least one traffic law. No matter how stupid you think that law might be.

As I said above, this argument is silly.

Nobody cares if you break a law if it doesn't affect somebody else. If you roll through a Stop sign when nobody is around, its not big deal. Similarly, nobody really cares if a bike blows through a stop sign when the road is empty.

However, it IS a big deal if you break the law such that it affects everybody else on the damn road. This is what bikers do when they regularly blow through stop signs and lights such that cars have to brake for them.  Cars generally don't get to break motoring laws such that it screws everybody else on the road, but some bikers seem to think that its their God given right to break whatever law they want even if it screws over other vehicles.


I have not seen this. As someone who has ridden a bike and skateboard frequently on roads, "blowing" through a stop sign in a busy intersection usually doesn't work out in the favor of the smaller vehicle. In any case, you can continue making things up, or regurgitating the same crap someone else said.
 
2013-01-01 01:52:49 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: I love the "You drive 5 over the speed limit so I get to disregard stop lights and signs" argument.


It's not the "so we get to break the law too" it's the "Stop pretending that you motorists are infallible" part.

Both parties are supposed to follow the rules. But for some reason, you think it's worse when a cyclist doesn't.
 
2013-01-01 01:55:58 PM
If you use a public resource (the roads) you should do it responsibly and appropriately.

Pedestrians should be careful and not jaywalk. If they break the law, they should get ticketed.

Drivers should go through training (which they do) and get ticketed when they break the law (which happens, but not often enough).

Bikers should go through training (which they don't, at least not here) and get ticketed when they break the law (which they don't here).

Grow up and stop pretending that you, and your mode of transportation, is better than others. Do what's right for you, and don't screw others over.
 
2013-01-01 01:57:58 PM

The Angry Hand of God: I have not seen this. As someone who has ridden a bike and skateboard frequently on roads, "blowing" through a stop sign in a busy intersection usually doesn't work out in the favor of the smaller vehicle. In any case, you can continue making things up, or regurgitating the same crap someone else said.


I see it constantly. You obviously have not ever lived near a college campus or in a heavily residential area inside of a large city. If you had lived in an area like that, you would see this behavior each and every day in the spring/summer. If you don't think that this happens, you simply have no clue.

It usually doesn't happen at busy intersections. You pulled the "busy" qualifier out of your ass so that you had a stronger argument. It happens in residential areas where traffic and car speed is lower. Cyclists know that they can essentially force cars to stop if they are at low speeds without too much of a threat to their safety.

Go to an area with lots of college students, and watch them bike around residential areas with some car traffic. Go ahead and tell me what percentage stop all the time at signs/lights. You will then have a clue of what you are talking about.
 
2013-01-01 01:57:58 PM

Pinhead Patriot: Wait... Only inline skates?

[cdn.fd.uproxx.com image 600x400]


"hey, a blowjob is a job"
 
2013-01-01 01:58:14 PM

Krazikarl:
However, it IS a big deal if you break the law such that it affects everybody else on the damn road. This is what bikers do when they regularly blow through stop signs and lights such that cars have to brake for them.  Cars generally don't get to break motoring laws such that it screws everybody else on the road, but some bikers seem to think that its their God given right to break whatever law they want even if it screws over other vehicles.


Does this happen, yes. Does it happen enough that it's an epidemic, no.
As stated before, I live in a college town with a huge campus and have drove onto campus to work for 9 years. There are TONS of bikes. I have never once had to slam on my brakes to avoid hitting a cyclist who 'blew through' a stop sign/light. I see WAY more people walking during 'no-walk' signs.
 
2013-01-01 02:02:07 PM

Marcintosh: Best damn system I've ever seen keeps the strollers out of the way so the bikes and roller blade folks can duke it out in peace.[www.updowntowners.com image 850x508]


Where I live has a paved trail around the rivers that is supposed to be shared. I wish that set up was thought about when they created the river park trails. A lot of times both the walkers and bikers get into each other's way. Usually it is either side not paying attention. There haven't been any real accidents but a lot of near misses between the two. Most of the time I blame the walkers who usually have pets or children and do not keep them close to the edge of the trail for other runners or cyclists to pass them.
 
2013-01-01 02:03:12 PM

The number 7 and the letter Q!:

Bikers should go through training (which they don't, at least not here) and get ticketed when they break the law (which they don't here).

Grow up and stop pretending that you, and your mode of transportation, is better than others. Do what's right for you, and don't screw others over.


If you've gone through driving training, you've gone through cycling training. The rules are the same with occasional exceptions (like being able to ride double-file or getting to run a red light if it the trigger isn't working for you) in some jurisdictions. Most of the exceptions are less strict than for cars. If you simply follow the "Rules of the road" on a bike, you'll be fine.

When you are on the road whether it be on bike, motorcycle, moped, or golf cart, you must behave exactly as if you were in a car.
 
2013-01-01 02:03:14 PM

serial_crusher: But, I'm not really aware of any of those douchebags thinking that running a light somehow makes them safer.  They just don't want to be inconvenienced by having to stop.


http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3314455.ece

"some junctions are so dangerous that to wait for green is to risk my life for no benefit to anybody."

A quick google search pulls up hundreds of similar articles.

I know that these idiots make up only a tiny minority of cyclists, but it doesn't help when they are given a spot in the media to convince others that following the law really is more dangerous than randomly darting out in front of 50MPH cross-traffic.
 
2013-01-01 02:03:43 PM

Krazikarl: The Angry Hand of God: I have not seen this. As someone who has ridden a bike and skateboard frequently on roads, "blowing" through a stop sign in a busy intersection usually doesn't work out in the favor of the smaller vehicle. In any case, you can continue making things up, or regurgitating the same crap someone else said.

I see it constantly. You obviously have not ever lived near a college campus or in a heavily residential area inside of a large city. If you had lived in an area like that, you would see this behavior each and every day in the spring/summer. If you don't think that this happens, you simply have no clue.

It usually doesn't happen at busy intersections. You pulled the "busy" qualifier out of your ass so that you had a stronger argument. It happens in residential areas where traffic and car speed is lower. Cyclists know that they can essentially force cars to stop if they are at low speeds without too much of a threat to their safety.

Go to an area with lots of college students, and watch them bike around residential areas with some car traffic. Go ahead and tell me what percentage stop all the time at signs/lights. You will then have a clue of what you are talking about.


I have lived in an area with a ton of college students, and quite frankly, usually the asshole is the one driving the car. Why don't we have a nice conversation about how you hate hipsters and PBR instead.
 
2013-01-01 02:05:29 PM

ancker: Does this happen, yes. Does it happen enough that it's an epidemic, no.
As stated before, I live in a college town with a huge campus and have drove onto campus to work for 9 years. There are TONS of bikes. I have never once had to slam on my brakes to avoid hitting a cyclist who 'blew through' a stop sign/light. I see WAY more people walking during 'no-walk' signs.


I lived in a residential area near a major college campus while in grad school for 6 years, and it is an absolute epidemic in areas like that. I have to constantly brake for cyclists breaking the law.

I have personally hit a cyclist (who was riding the wrong way on a 1 way street at dusk with no lights - it was very low speed so the cyclist was fine other than some scrapes and the cops said that I obviously had no fault).

I have also seen a COP hit a cyclist when the biker blew threw a red light. Once again, low speed collision, but it was a collision and the biker was 100% at fault.
And yes, jaywalking on campus such that cars have to stop is a major problem. But at least that is confined to actually being on campus - you don't see it as soon as you get off the actual campus. And I'm all for ticketing jay walkers that make traffic stop for them.
 
2013-01-01 02:05:36 PM

crotchgrabber: It's too early for a bike hate thread.

I'm gonna pull on my lycra shorts, get on my bike and run some god damn stop signs.


Make sure you have Oakleys on, a tiny mirror on a stick clamped to your space helmet, and a stainless steel bike bottle with four espressos in it for maximum troll power.

/being Lance Armstrong took ball.
 
2013-01-01 02:10:40 PM

The Angry Hand of God: I have lived in an area with a ton of college students, and quite frankly, usually the asshole is the one driving the car. Why don't we have a nice conversation about how you hate hipsters and PBR instead.


Good subject change when you didn't like the direction that the conversation was going.

Yes, I agree that the assholes are often, or even usually, the driver. Yes, I agree that a ton of drivers are clueless and will yell at bikers to "get off the road" even when the bikers are 100% in the right.

But what does this have to do with the argument that bikers should be ticketed when they break the law in a way that screws over others? Hint: it's a complete non sequitur.
 
2013-01-01 02:11:19 PM

Urmuf Hamer: Petit_Merdeux: If only cyclists observed all the traffic laws as diligently as motorists!

thurstonxhowell: Do you also get angry at pedestrians for thinking you should stay off the sidewalk?

Sarcasmatron is challenged by at least one of these posts

As an old, very fit user/owner of just about every form of conveyance implicit in this discussion I assert that the problem with all of them is that over a long enough period every single operator of any of them is at best an oblivious fool and at worst an ignorant incompetent inconsiderate waste of life.

/get teh hell off my road, sidewalk, bike lane, bike path, truck stop, runway, skate park, farmer's market and lawn,

//that is all


blog.wtfconcept.com
 
2013-01-01 02:11:40 PM

Krazikarl: However, it IS a big deal if you break the law such that it affects everybody else on the damn road. This is what bikers do when they regularly blow through stop signs and lights such that cars have to brake for them.  Cars generally don't get to break motoring laws such that it screws everybody else on the road, but some bikers seem to think that its their God given right to break whatever law they want even if it screws over other vehicles.


I'm not going to pick a side in this cyclist vs. motorist thread, but having lived ( & commuted by bike) in Eugene, OR during the 90's, I can attest to some pretty brazen bicyclists out there.

Many close calls in that town with the hyper-aggressive, spandex-clad crowd; both when I was driving and when I was riding my own bicycle. At least the homeless people on bikes are only doing about 5mph, not enough to badly scrape up my car or injure a pedestrian...

/ and many clueless drivers...
// and road-hogging rednecks just a few miles away ( Springfield, OR)
 
2013-01-01 02:13:06 PM

Krazikarl: The Angry Hand of God: I have lived in an area with a ton of college students, and quite frankly, usually the asshole is the one driving the car. Why don't we have a nice conversation about how you hate hipsters and PBR instead.

Good subject change when you didn't like the direction that the conversation was going.

Yes, I agree that the assholes are often, or even usually, the driver. Yes, I agree that a ton of drivers are clueless and will yell at bikers to "get off the road" even when the bikers are 100% in the right.

But what does this have to do with the argument that bikers should be ticketed when they break the law in a way that screws over others? Hint: it's a complete non sequitur.


Please point out to me where I made that the argument? I never said bikers shouldn't be ticketed. I was just trying to make the point that the people in cars are not always in the right like they think they are.
 
2013-01-01 02:16:37 PM
i291.photobucket.com
 
2013-01-01 02:16:50 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: january 1 and already had a run in with a cyclist that thought the stop sign was a 'suggestion'.
four way stop...i got there first. start to go and a biker blows thru from my right and starts yelling at me for having the audacity to slow him down.
he yelled at me that he was in 'training'. i guess it is training to be dead quicker.



Bullshiat.

A bicyclist blew through a 4 way stop, and you had a mental conversation and thought it was funny.
1) If he was training, he wouldn't have stopped. He just would have ridden to the next light and done the exact same thing
2) Thanks to the Doppler Effect, you wouldn't have been able to understand him.

Next time, cut out the pretend conversation, and just say "I guess he was training. Training to be dead quicker!"
 
2013-01-01 02:16:55 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Skarekrough: So, in conclusion, they're more likely to incur greater damage, prone to ignore driving laws because of the basic laws of physics in a situation they have willingly inserted themselves into, and they're whiny about it.

If you're looking for why people driving cars hate bicyclists you can start right there.

What you also don't notice is the commuter cyclist riding one block over, on a residential street. Obeying all the laws, slipping quietly through town. Why is he over there? Because it is a much easier ride, as opposed to being an idiot on the main through street.

But that guy never appears on your radar.


From a pure logic standpoint it is hard to notice something that is well out of my view.

Having had a commute which had several bike path crossings I was always willing to give cyclists the go-ahead if for no other reason than I know the dangers they have and wish them nothing more than safety when they're being courteous and observant.

My issue us not with them. Never has been and never will be.
 
2013-01-01 02:17:54 PM

The Angry Hand of God: Please point out to me where I made that the argument? I never said bikers shouldn't be ticketed.


You said that cyclists don't blow through stop signs/lights because it would be too dangerous for them. You then accused me of making things up when I said that they did. When I pointed out that I personally witness that behavior constantly, and am therefore not making things up, your response was "Drivers are assholes".
 
2013-01-01 02:18:12 PM

ancker: The number 7 and the letter Q!:

Bikers should go through training (which they don't, at least not here) and get ticketed when they break the law (which they don't here).

Grow up and stop pretending that you, and your mode of transportation, is better than others. Do what's right for you, and don't screw others over.

If you've gone through driving training, you've gone through cycling training. The rules are the same with occasional exceptions (like being able to ride double-file or getting to run a red light if it the trigger isn't working for you) in some jurisdictions. Most of the exceptions are less strict than for cars. If you simply follow the "Rules of the road" on a bike, you'll be fine.

When you are on the road whether it be on bike, motorcycle, moped, or golf cart, you must behave exactly as if you were in a car.


It's been so long for me since driver training (which may be a problem in and of itself) that I had forgotten that it covered bikes too. It does explain why I feel bikes should be treated like vehicles for the most part, though.

Thanks for reminding me.
 
2013-01-01 02:18:30 PM
I know one thing: Physics favours the car versus the bike, and also favours the bike versus the chick with her nose in her iThing.

Ignoring physics is perilous.
 
2013-01-01 02:19:40 PM

Krazikarl: I lived in a residential area near a major college campus while in grad school for 6 years, and it is an absolute epidemic in areas like that. I have to constantly brake for cyclists breaking the law.


My favorite: having to break suddenly (attempting a right-hand turn) as a cyclist blows right through a stop sign ( first behind, and then right past me).
 
2013-01-01 02:23:54 PM

Krazikarl: The Angry Hand of God: Please point out to me where I made that the argument? I never said bikers shouldn't be ticketed.

You said that cyclists don't blow through stop signs/lights because it would be too dangerous for them. You then accused me of making things up when I said that they did. When I pointed out that I personally witness that behavior constantly, and am therefore not making things up, your response was "Drivers are assholes".


I asked you when I made the argument that bicyclists shouldn't be ticketed. Again, can you please point that out to me?
 
2013-01-01 02:24:10 PM
The thing I get most annoyed with here is when bikes are on the road when there is a dedicated and maintained bike bath just a few feet parallel. The path is even on the same side of the street, but noooo someone wants to ride in the road like an ass for no goddamned reason. Just once, I'd love to see one of these dedicated street-worthy riders use hand signals for turns and have proper lighting on their bikes.

As many riders as get hit around here, there should be some law making some kind of bike insurance mandatory. No riding off the insurance of the car that hit you because you were being an idiot. It would be easy to have a policy that's only a few dollars on a regular car or home policy.
 
2013-01-01 02:24:12 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: My favorite: having to break suddenly (attempting a right-hand turn) as a cyclist blows right through a stop sign ( first behind, and then right past me).


Oh yes. Thats a classic.

Which brings me to an actual question:

It it legal for a cyclist to pass everybody on the right at a light, and then stop at the light? I honestly don't know.

You see it all the time in crowded cities. The cyclists gets passed by 10 cars, but then catches up to them when they are stopped at the light. The biker then passes them all on the right, and they all have to go through the process of passing the bike again when the light goes green. This can repeat itself many times over if there are lots of lights. I can never figure out if what the biker is doing is legal. Personally, I don't think it should be (since it really gums up traffic for everybody but the biker), but I could see it going either way.
 
2013-01-01 02:25:27 PM

Skarekrough: From a pure logic standpoint it is hard to notice something that is well out of my view.


Very true.

Skarekrough: I notice bike riders because ...

Because of this there's a tendency to violate laws they should be observing ...

So, in conclusion, they're more likely to incur greater damage, prone to ignore driving laws because of the basic laws of physics in a situation they have willingly inserted themselves into, and they're whiny about it.


But (to me) those comments sound like you're saying 'most cyclists'. When in reality, it is just the ones you see and notice.
 
2013-01-01 02:28:03 PM

sonorangal: Marcintosh: Best damn system I've ever seen keeps the strollers out of the way so the bikes and roller blade folks can duke it out in peace.[www.updowntowners.com image 850x508]

Where I live has a paved trail around the rivers that is supposed to be shared. I wish that set up was thought about when they created the river park trails. A lot of times both the walkers and bikers get into each other's way. Usually it is either side not paying attention. There haven't been any real accidents but a lot of near misses between the two. Most of the time I blame the walkers who usually have pets or children and do not keep them close to the edge of the trail for other runners or cyclists to pass them.


There were a lot of complaints from either side.  People walking like to walk abreast and chat while walking, sometimes they have dogs as well or even children in strollers.
People on bikes like to do about 50-60mph.  The pavement is smooth and flat and that speed is easy to attain if you're a dedicated biker.
There were a few accidents.  The route kept gaining in popularity and became more crowded every month.  So in a flash of intelligence they expanded the system.
It's a pretty cool area in this respect.  In the spring the local DOT will shut down about 3miles of a redundant road every Sunday for the public to play on.
 
2013-01-01 02:28:09 PM

Krazikarl: It it legal for a cyclist to pass everybody on the right at a light, and then stop at the light? I honestly don't know.


Depends on the jurisdiction.

You see it all the time in crowded cities. The cyclists gets passed by 10 cars, but then catches up to them when they are stopped at the light. The biker then passes them all on the right, and they all have to go through the process of passing the bike again when the light goes green.

As a sometimes cyclist, I call that an asshat move.
/'sometimes' = a LOT more in my younger days than now
 
2013-01-01 02:28:24 PM
The reason people generalize cyclists is because it's true.
 
2013-01-01 02:29:58 PM

The Angry Hand of God: I asked you when I made the argument that bicyclists shouldn't be ticketed. Again, can you please point that out to me?


I said that the conversation was about "the argument that bikers should be ticketed when they break the law in a way that screws over others"

The key part is breaking a law in such a way that screws over others. You DID talk about that because you said it doesn't happen: "I have not seen this. As someone who has ridden a bike and skateboard frequently on roads, "blowing" through a stop sign in a busy intersection usually doesn't work out in the favor of the smaller vehicle. In any case, you can continue making things up..."

You said that bikers don't break the law in ways that screw over others. You then accused me of being a liar when I said that it does happen. Since breaking the law in a way that screws over others is a necessary condition for ticketing, you are basically arguing that there is no realistic situation in which a biker should be ticketed, and anybody who says otherwise is a liar.
 
2013-01-01 02:31:16 PM

serial_crusher: Skarekrough: Because of this there's a tendency to violate laws they should be observing because they feel they're not as safe as others on the road. The refuse to accept the personal responsibility for a situation they have willingly agreed to put themselves in.

What laws are you referring to specifically?  I mean, the traditional butthurt is that bikes run red lights and stop signs all the time.  But, I'm not really aware of any of those douchebags thinking that running a light somehow makes them safer.  They just don't want to be inconvenienced by having to stop.

Skarekrough: I also notice them because when an incident occurs they have more of a tendency to blow it out of proportion (become verbally or physically violent) compared to the reaction from another motorist.

As you said, we're more vulnerable to damage.  If you do something stupid that almost puts a dent in my bumper, I'm not going to be quite as pissed as I am when you do something stupid that almost kills me.
I think I tend to react equally angrily when I'm in my car, but my voice is muffled and my hand gestures are less visible, so it might be less noticeable.


A muffled voice or hand gesture is the least of my concerns.

In almost very car-on-car accident I have been in the demeanor of the other driver is of "these things happen, that's why they're called accidents." You exchange insurance, even lend a cell phone and work together to make things better. It isn't always as pleasant, but when something happens it's almost always easier to de-escalate. To make things worse you have to be dealing with two people that are just incredible pricks that WANT things to get out of control. And those situations are rare.

In the case of even a potential or near-accident with a cyclist the attitude is "you're an unobservant jerk who feels they're entitled to the road" of which the attitude is often times combined with a physical event (kicking the doors, spitting) and then disappearing into traffic. Generally I think this is the result of operating in a state of low-grade fear because despite laws on the books there's the laws of physics of which cyclists are at the distinct disadvantage.
 
2013-01-01 02:37:19 PM
The new law was greeted with enthusiasm by almost 20 homosexuals as well as several tween girls.
 
2013-01-01 02:38:15 PM

Tanukis_Parachute: january 1 and already had a run in with a cyclist that thought the stop sign was a 'suggestion'.

four way stop...i got there first. start to go and a biker blows thru from my right and starts yelling at me for having the audacity to slow him down.

he yelled at me that he was in 'training'. i guess it is training to be dead quicker.


Sounds legit. I'm totally convinced that this actually occurred.
 
2013-01-01 02:42:36 PM

Krazikarl: Which brings me to an actual question:

It it legal for a cyclist to pass everybody on the right at a light, and then stop at the light? I honestly don't know.


That's a good question. I'm pretty sure in my State ( Oregon ) that is legal only IF there is a marked bicycle lane.

/ * couldn't find a clear answer in the ODOT-published cyclist's manual *
 
2013-01-01 02:44:17 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: But (to me) those comments sound like you're saying 'most cyclists'. When in reality, it is just the ones you see and notice.


http://www.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2011/12/uncomfortable-relat io nship-between-bikes-and-red-lights/623/

According to this study, 70% of cyclists ran through the red light at intersections with a bike lane, and 40% at an intersection without a bike lane.

40% might not be "most", but it's certainly enough of a pattern to know that it's not one or two isolated incidents per month as you seem to be implying.
 
2013-01-01 02:45:35 PM

Derigiberble: This is a big part of it. Everyone on the road is awful, not just cyclists, but you notice cyclists. I've biked a certain neighborhood route nearly five times a week for a few months now and a hilariously small percentage of people ever comes to a complete stop at the 4-way stop signs unless someone is visible approaching on the crossing road.

Because of this it seems like most drivers don't even want a cyclist to fully stop because they don't want to wait for a biker to accelerate across the intersection. I come to a momentary full stop as (just long enough to stop without having to put my foot down), and just doing that I have gotten honked at. When I am coming up to an intersection where someone else has the right of way, 80% of the time they will sit there waving frantically for me to go despite me having a stop sign that I have to obey.



This.

I certainly agree, more people seem to get upset when I *do* stop at a stop sign, because they weren't planning on having to come to a complete stop behind me. Likewise, I get the frantic wavers as well, who appear not to understand that since they got to the intersection first, that they have right-of-way and should go before me.

Even more annoying is when they wave me through, and then proceed to turn to follow after me.
 
2013-01-01 02:49:12 PM

cmb53208: Fluid: Is there no such thing as separate bicycle lanes on US roads? I'm not really up-to-date on how that kinda thing works in other countries.

On the streets in many US cities there are separate lanes for bicycles. And next to these lanes you will see bikers merrily going down the sidewalk with no regard for the pedestrians who use them.


And you'll see cars parked in bike lanes, passing in bike lanes, or just driving merrily along in them tailgating bicyclists who they think have no business being in "their" road.
 
2013-01-01 02:49:21 PM
www.chud.com

Obligatory


Also, Illinois is the answer to the "if you don't love higher taxes maybe you shouldn't use the roads or any public services" bullshiat. One of the most highly taxed states in the nation. Some of the worst roads and services. The state is completely bankrupt and they are always looking for new and creative ways to squeeze more money from the citizens. Chicago is, as it is in so many other areas, the worst example of this.

I suspect that since the cyclists are too fast or difficult to catch, and therefore fine, when they commit an offense this is an attempt by the city to generate revenue by means of a slower more easily apprehended offender.

Fark you Illinois. Fark you in the face.

It can't be over soon enough
 
2013-01-01 02:52:22 PM

Forbidden Doughnut: Krazikarl: Which brings me to an actual question:

It it legal for a cyclist to pass everybody on the right at a light, and then stop at the light? I honestly don't know.

That's a good question. I'm pretty sure in my State ( Oregon ) that is legal only IF there is a marked bicycle lane.

/ * couldn't find a clear answer in the ODOT-published cyclist's manual *


That's a bingo. If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car. If they have an actual bike lane, they are free to pass car traffic. I see a lot of riders doing both, which sucks because one second they are within their rights and the law, and the next second they're totally illegal and creating a major hazard. I avoid doing that when I'm riding on the road.

What also sucks is that laws vary as to what constitutes a bike lane. In some cities, it doesn't need to be painted or anything, it's simply a given that the farthest right 3 feet of pavement is the bike lane. This can cause a wee bit of confusion on the road.

However, as affluent, free-thinking citizens of the West, we'll get over it. (aka white people problems)
 
2013-01-01 02:52:46 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: I love the "You drive 5 over the speed limit so I get to disregard stop lights and signs" argument.


You sound fat.
 
2013-01-01 02:57:47 PM

the ha ha guy: 40% might not be "most", but it's certainly enough of a pattern to know that it's not one or two isolated incidents per month as you seem to be implying.


Interesting. Then again, it is Portland...;)
But I never implied ' one or two isolated incidents per month'
 
2013-01-01 02:59:37 PM
In Berlin, there are separate, marked bicycle lanes, and separate traffic control signals for bicycles.
They're still ignored.
/sigh
 
2013-01-01 03:03:49 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: For all the 'share the road' stuff they throw around, the second you go into their 'bicycle lane' you'd damn better be on a bicycle or they'll eat you alive.


I only get annoyed at the joggers who decide to run against the direction of traffic in it.
 
2013-01-01 03:05:29 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: I love the "You drive 5 over the speed limit so I get to disregard stop lights and signs" argument.


I know! It's almost like people are hypocrites and then they get all butthurt when you point it out.
 
2013-01-01 03:07:10 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: All of the same 'bicycle vs car' arguments hold up for 'skaters vs bicycles'. The only difference is the smug cyclists are the ones who are going to be annoyed.

For all the 'share the road' stuff they throw around, the second you go into their 'bicycle lane' you'd damn better be on a bicycle or they'll eat you alive.


That's because it's the law. Where there is a bike lane, you car drivers should expect not to have bicycles in the road, and cyclists shouldn't have to worry about cars in the bike lane.

Simple enough for you?
 
2013-01-01 03:09:09 PM

joonyer: What also sucks is that laws vary as to what constitutes a bike lane. In some cities, it doesn't need to be painted or anything, it's simply a given that the farthest right 3 feet of pavement is the bike lane. This can cause a wee bit of confusion on the road.


What people think:
"Cyclists keep to the right"

What the law usually says:
"Keep to the right as far as practicable, except when... (long list of otherwise)"

What many motorists think:
"Anywhere outside the furthest right 3 inches of paved surface is illegal."

What idiot motorists think:
"Fark you, you don't pay taxes. Get offa my road!"

What rational cyclists think and do:
"Keep to the right unless it is dangerous or I need to turn left"

What idiot cyclists, and POB's think:
"Fark you, I don't care, I ride where and how I want"

Which one are you?

/the vast majority of adult cyclists are or have been also motorists
 
2013-01-01 03:15:44 PM

firefly212: And you'll see cars parked in bike lanes, passing in bike lanes, or just driving merrily along in them tailgating bicyclists who they think have no business being in "their" road.


True, but at least where I live, all of those behaviors will (deservedly) get a ticketing...
 
2013-01-01 03:16:04 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Skarekrough: From a pure logic standpoint it is hard to notice something that is well out of my view.

Very true.

Skarekrough: I notice bike riders because ...

Because of this there's a tendency to violate laws they should be observing ...

So, in conclusion, they're more likely to incur greater damage, prone to ignore driving laws because of the basic laws of physics in a situation they have willingly inserted themselves into, and they're whiny about it.

But (to me) those comments sound like you're saying 'most cyclists'. When in reality, it is just the ones you see and notice.


The world is filled with good examples. They have a tendency to become part of the background. It is the rare exceptions which give the others a bad name.

Last night when I was driving home I didn't notice the cars that did what they should have done. But I did notice the jackass in a black Nissan Pathfinder who turned into my lane where I had the right of way.

I was a suburban bicycle commuter for years. For a few months my schedule coincided with one of the Lance Armstrong wannabe's who would put himself in the middle of the road where the typical speed limit was 45 MPH. He would pass me as I made my way home along the shoulder and give me a wave thinking we had some sort of kinship. I knew the ire of those drivers he was holding up as they were just trying to make their way home would inherently also get directed upon me as well even though I was being a member of the "good example" group.
 
2013-01-01 03:24:45 PM
Thus far, the attitude fron bikets in this thread seems to be 'since drivers set their cruise 7 MPH over the limit on an empty stretch of Interstate that means I can do whatever the fark I want!'
 
2013-01-01 03:28:08 PM

firefly212: cmb53208: Fluid: Is there no such thing as separate bicycle lanes on US roads? I'm not really up-to-date on how that kinda thing works in other countries.

On the streets in many US cities there are separate lanes for bicycles. And next to these lanes you will see bikers merrily going down the sidewalk with no regard for the pedestrians who use them.

And you'll see cars parked in bike lanes, passing in bike lanes, or just driving merrily along in them tailgating bicyclists who they think have no business being in "their" road.


Bull shiat.
 
2013-01-01 03:33:01 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: joonyer: What also sucks is that laws vary as to what constitutes a bike lane. In some cities, it doesn't need to be painted or anything, it's simply a given that the farthest right 3 feet of pavement is the bike lane. This can cause a wee bit of confusion on the road.

What people think:
"Cyclists keep to the right"

What the law usually says:
"Keep to the right as far as practicable, except when... (long list of otherwise)"

What many motorists think:
"Anywhere outside the furthest right 3 inches of paved surface is illegal."

What idiot motorists think:
"Fark you, you don't pay taxes. Get offa my road!"

What rational cyclists think and do:
"Keep to the right unless it is dangerous or I need to turn left"

What idiot cyclists, and POB's think:
"Fark you, I don't care, I ride where and how I want"

Which one are you?

/the vast majority of adult cyclists are or have been also motorists


That pretty much sums it up. Well said.

By the way, everyone says they're a rational cyclist until no one is looking or they're anonymous. ;)
 
2013-01-01 03:34:55 PM

joonyer: If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car.


So, you're saying that they should take the lane, and that drivers shouldn't pass them, except when there is a dotted yellow line in their lane?
 
2013-01-01 03:34:59 PM

Krazikarl: Good subject change when you didn't like the direction that the conversation was going.

Yes, I agree that the assholes are often, or even usually, the driver. Yes, I agree that a ton of drivers are clueless and will yell at bikers to "get off the road" even when the bikers are 100% in the right.

But what does this have to do with the argument that bikers should be ticketed when they break the law in a way that screws over others? Hint: it's a complete non sequitur.


No its not.  Most fark'rs have an irrational hatred of cyclists and have this entitled opinion that the only thing that deserves to be on the road are their fat asses.  That hatred usually stems from somewhere else.  Its about time we talk about where ...

/they also don't have a clue who pays for the roads and how taxes work but I digress
 
2013-01-01 03:39:33 PM

Psycoholic_Slag: Zarquon's Flat Tire: I love the "You drive 5 over the speed limit so I get to disregard stop lights and signs" argument.

I know! It's almost like people are hypocrites and then they get all butthurt when you point it out.


Let's have a contest, I'll drive 75 in a 70 zone, you run every stop light and stop sign you come to. We'll see who lives longest.
 
2013-01-01 03:48:22 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: joonyer: If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car.

So, you're saying that they should take the lane, and that drivers shouldn't pass them, except when there is a dotted yellow line in their lane?


I'm not saying what should or should not happen. I'm just stating what the law implies in most places I've ridden. I drive and I ride and I live in a very bike friendly city(Fort Collins, CO). If I find myself riding in the actual car traffic lane(I define this as "the car traffic behind me either can't or won't pass me because my bike is taking up too much of their lane to do it safely), I do my best to keep up with car speeds, be predictable and deliberate in my riding(don't lock 'em up, you gonna get crushed), and get my ass back to a bike lane as soon as safely possible.
 
2013-01-01 03:50:56 PM

joonyer: Forbidden Doughnut: Krazikarl: Which brings me to an actual question:

It it legal for a cyclist to pass everybody on the right at a light, and then stop at the light? I honestly don't know.

That's a good question. I'm pretty sure in my State ( Oregon ) that is legal only IF there is a marked bicycle lane.

/ * couldn't find a clear answer in the ODOT-published cyclist's manual *

That's a bingo. If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car. If they have an actual bike lane, they are free to pass car traffic. I see a lot of riders doing both, which sucks because one second they are within their rights and the law, and the next second they're totally illegal and creating a major hazard. I avoid doing that when I'm riding on the road.


Motorists don't like it when cyclists take their place in a line of traffic either. Cyclists don't accelerate as fast or have the top speed of cars and will hold up a lane of traffic in many cases if they take a place in line. I prefer to follow the rules set up in the Uniform Vehicle Code, which allow a cyclist to judge when to stay to the right and out of the way and when to "take a lane" when there isn't enough room to share one. This seems to be what you see cyclists doing, and it is usually legal unless your state has deviated from the federal recommended Uniform Vehicle Code.
 
2013-01-01 03:51:27 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: joonyer: If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car.

So, you're saying that they should take the lane, and that drivers shouldn't pass them, except when there is a dotted yellow line in their lane?


Also, what I was really trying to say in my original statement is that cyclists should not be dodging and weaving from the car traffic lane, to the bike lane, to the sidewalk, and back again, just so they don't have to slow down for anything. That be some boolsheet.

/comma quota exceeded
 
2013-01-01 03:55:05 PM
Had a guy in a car try to hit me once while I was skating, but he was in a Miata and I didn't want to damage it.....
 
2013-01-01 03:59:38 PM

gingerjet: Krazikarl: Good subject change when you didn't like the direction that the conversation was going.

Yes, I agree that the assholes are often, or even usually, the driver. Yes, I agree that a ton of drivers are clueless and will yell at bikers to "get off the road" even when the bikers are 100% in the right.

But what does this have to do with the argument that bikers should be ticketed when they break the law in a way that screws over others? Hint: it's a complete non sequitur.

No its not.  Most fark'rs have an irrational hatred of cyclists and have this entitled opinion that the only thing that deserves to be on the road are their fat asses.  That hatred usually stems from somewhere else.  Its about time we talk about where ...

/they also don't have a clue who pays for the roads and how taxes work but I digress


Why is it assumed that everyone in a car is fat?
 
2013-01-01 04:04:12 PM
I think it would be really funny if a bunch of roller-bladers clogged up the bike lane going 5 MPH, making a line of cyclists trying to do 12 MPH pile up behind them.
 
2013-01-01 04:12:12 PM

Urmuf Hamer: Petit_Merdeux: If only cyclists observed all the traffic laws as diligently as motorists!

thurstonxhowell: Do you also get angry at pedestrians for thinking you should stay off the sidewalk?

Sarcasmatron is challenged by at least one of these posts

As an old, very fit user/owner of just about every form of conveyance implicit in this discussion I assert that the problem with all of them is that over a long enough period every single operator of any of them is at best an oblivious fool and at worst an ignorant incompetent inconsiderate waste of life.

/get teh hell off my road, sidewalk, bike lane, bike path, truck stop, runway, skate park, farmer's market and lawn,

//that is all


I like the cut of your jib. Is there an newsletter to subscribe to?
 
2013-01-01 04:12:48 PM

Avery614: Ikam: Given some of the road conditions in Chicago, I predict a lot of inline skaters falling flat on their faces and getting run over by a city bus or a taxi driver when they hit one of the several million potholes that exist on our roads.

Hell, I'd pay a dollar to see that.....


dawnofthedad2010.files.wordpress.com

So, what you're saying is, that you'd buy that for a dollar?
 
2013-01-01 04:18:43 PM

gingerjet: No its not.  Most fark'rs have an irrational hatred of cyclists and have this entitled opinion that the only thing that deserves to be on the road are their fat asses.  That hatred usually stems from somewhere else.  Its about time we talk about where ...


Cyclists as a whole are fine. The only reason I don't cycle myself is because I don't live within easy biking distance of anywhere I need to go, and I'm disabled (bad leg, not "bad thyroid").

The cyclists I have a problem with are those who dart out across 50MPH cross traffic against a red light, those who ride three abreast at 15MPH as a protest against the lack of a bike lane (the city did put in a bike lane, but the protesters decided they liked the road better), and those who go out of their way to escalate any incident that should be over within seconds.

I also have a problem with car drivers who do the same, but asshole drivers are generally easier to avoid, take fewer risks, and are somewhat less common (as a precentage) because they know they will get fined and/or lose their license if they get caught or cause an accident.
 
2013-01-01 04:20:51 PM

gingerjet: Most fark'rs have an irrational hatred of cyclists and have this entitled opinion that the only thing that deserves to be on the road are their fat asses.  That hatred usually stems from somewhere else


Pot. Kettle.

Also, quit making stuff up.
 
2013-01-01 04:33:14 PM
I'd like to just put this out there for the cyclists. Cyclists, I just need you to know that there are many large vehicles out there on the streets that are having trouble reading your intention and I'm afraid that if there is an accident, you might be injured or killed. In fact, I'm pretty sure of that. In respect to my insurance rates, I'd appreciate it if you would follow the laws of the country, state or city that you are traveling in.
 
2013-01-01 04:36:00 PM

change1211: gingerjet: Krazikarl: Good subject change when you didn't like the direction that the conversation was going.

Yes, I agree that the assholes are often, or even usually, the driver. Yes, I agree that a ton of drivers are clueless and will yell at bikers to "get off the road" even when the bikers are 100% in the right.

But what does this have to do with the argument that bikers should be ticketed when they break the law in a way that screws over others? Hint: it's a complete non sequitur.

No its not.  Most fark'rs have an irrational hatred of cyclists and have this entitled opinion that the only thing that deserves to be on the road are their fat asses.  That hatred usually stems from somewhere else.  Its about time we talk about where ...

/they also don't have a clue who pays for the roads and how taxes work but I digress

Why is it assumed that everyone in a car is fat?


Because, statistically, everyone in America is fat, and most people drive. The bell curve resembles Rosie O'Donnell's gunt.
 
2013-01-01 04:57:45 PM

ski9600: I'd like to just put this out there for the cyclists. Cyclists, I just need you to know that there are many large vehicles out there on the streets that are having trouble reading your intention and I'm afraid that if there is an accident, you might be injured or killed. In fact, I'm pretty sure of that. In respect to my insurance rates, I'd appreciate it if you would follow the laws of the country, state or city that you are traveling in.


www.drew.edu

What are his intentions?!?! I can't understand!!!!!
 
2013-01-01 04:58:22 PM

Valiente: change1211: gingerjet: Krazikarl: Good subject change when you didn't like the direction that the conversation was going.

Yes, I agree that the assholes are often, or even usually, the driver. Yes, I agree that a ton of drivers are clueless and will yell at bikers to "get off the road" even when the bikers are 100% in the right.

But what does this have to do with the argument that bikers should be ticketed when they break the law in a way that screws over others? Hint: it's a complete non sequitur.

No its not.  Most fark'rs have an irrational hatred of cyclists and have this entitled opinion that the only thing that deserves to be on the road are their fat asses.  That hatred usually stems from somewhere else.  Its about time we talk about where ...

/they also don't have a clue who pays for the roads and how taxes work but I digress

Why is it assumed that everyone in a car is fat?

Because, statistically, everyone in America is fat, and most people drive. The bell curve resembles Rosie O'Donnell's gunt.


Statistically the CDC says something around 36% for obesity but yeah, that's a high enough percentage to make that assumption.
 
2013-01-01 05:07:57 PM

serial_crusher: ski9600: I'd like to just put this out there for the cyclists. Cyclists, I just need you to know that there are many large vehicles out there on the streets that are having trouble reading your intention and I'm afraid that if there is an accident, you might be injured or killed. In fact, I'm pretty sure of that. In respect to my insurance rates, I'd appreciate it if you would follow the laws of the country, state or city that you are traveling in.

[www.drew.edu image 568x244]

What are his intentions?!?! I can't understand!!!!!


The fact that you had to use an illustration rather than a photograph or youtube video should be a clue how often those signals are used in the real world.
 
2013-01-01 05:16:42 PM

the ha ha guy: serial_crusher: ski9600: I'd like to just put this out there for the cyclists. Cyclists, I just need you to know that there are many large vehicles out there on the streets that are having trouble reading your intention and I'm afraid that if there is an accident, you might be injured or killed. In fact, I'm pretty sure of that. In respect to my insurance rates, I'd appreciate it if you would follow the laws of the country, state or city that you are traveling in.

[www.drew.edu image 568x244]

What are his intentions?!?! I can't understand!!!!!

The fact that you had to use an illustration rather than a photograph or youtube video should be a clue how often those signals are used in the real world.


When I commuted by bike I used them but I was also very aware that most drivers probably had no clue what I was signaling and that many who did have a clue probably didn't care.
 
2013-01-01 05:20:53 PM
Yea, another means of conveance for gas guzzling, the left lane belongs to me, road hogging, I am better at driving and following road rule laws than you, ITG Farkers to spout off about hitting with their cars.
I knew the turtles wouldn't be enough!
 
2013-01-01 05:59:19 PM
"Drivers break the law on occasion so I don't have to stop for stop signs"

Try arguing that point under the wheels of a dump truck.
 
2013-01-01 06:05:45 PM

Marcintosh:
There were a lot of complaints from either side.  People walking like to walk abreast and chat while walking, sometimes they have dogs as well or even children in strollers.
People on bikes like to do about 50-60mph.  The pavement is smooth and flat and that speed is easy to attain if you're a dedicated biker.
There were a few accidents.  The route kept gaining in popularity and became more crowded every month.  So in a flash of intelligence they expanded the system.
It's a pretty cool area in this respect.  In the spring the local DOT will shut down about 3miles of a redundant road every Sunday for the public to play on.


You clearly have no concept of speed. What you think is 50-60mph is probably closer to 20-25mph. The fastest riders in the world only ever achieve 50+ on a downhill portion of a mountain. The worlds top sprinters can get up to 50mph on the flats but only for a few hundred meters.
 
2013-01-01 06:16:02 PM

Kirby Muxloe: Im sure this will work just as well for roller-bladers as cyclists...

Just remember to spray it with PAM so the spandex, santorum and smug doesn't ruin your paint.

[www.snowplowpartscanada.com image 652x412]


My thoughts EXACTLY! I live in this piece of shiat state and Im blowing my horn like a MFer if I see these ass-clowns on the road.
 
2013-01-01 06:26:45 PM

serial_crusher: What are his intentions?!?! I can't understand!!!!!


Hand signals are stupid for that reason (nobody knows what they mean) and others (what kind of moron do you have to be to think you'll be safer with one hand off the handlebars while you're riding a bike in traffic?)

As a cyclist, if a motorist ever has to read, infer, or otherwise guess my intentions, I've already farked up.  I survive in traffic with one simple rule: <i>stay out of peoples' way.</i>  It's actually not that hard, even in a busy urban environment.
 
2013-01-01 06:28:25 PM
I live in a college town and yea a lot of the college kids do stupid things on their bikes. They also do a lot of stupid things just walking around like extreme jaywalking with headphones on while looking at their phones. I really *don't* care if someone jaywalks in front of me in a 15 mph road on or near campus, but for your own safety please look around once in a while.,

However, the cyclists who are obviously very into it or who I see commute to work every single day *do* obey the rules of the road. They see me, I see them, everyone is happy. I've never seen these cyclists who don't obey stop lights and stuff that you guys claim to see. How would these people even survive??
 
2013-01-01 06:30:58 PM

Puff The Destroyer: Kirby Muxloe: Im sure this will work just as well for roller-bladers as cyclists...

Just remember to spray it with PAM so the spandex, santorum and smug doesn't ruin your paint.

[www.snowplowpartscanada.com image 652x412]

My thoughts EXACTLY! I live in this piece of shiat state and Im blowing my horn like a MFer if I see these ass-clowns on the road.


(lookoutwe'vegotabadasshere.gif)
 
2013-01-01 06:45:50 PM
I ride in NM, and roller bladers are the least of your worries. There are some nice multi use lanes along Tramway, going from almost 25, all the way down to I-40. When I first moved out here, I tried it on my road bike, thought I was gonna die. People withyappy dogs on leases and yapping themselves. were a big hazard. those little farkers darting around. Once I ran over a leash between owner and mutt. The guy yelled at me, and I promptly turned around and told him if he can't keep an eye on his dog, to get rid of it.I'm not wrecking my 14lb bike for anything. The Ipod and walkers are the worst. You go by someone at 25mph when they have an Ipod, and they think they're victims. Same goes for women walking in groups. You call out you're going to pass them, but they're not listening, then act shocked as you pass them. We're talking sometimes "4 cows wide". Now I ride on the shoulder, it's about 8' wide, and can go faster, and can even hit green lights. Always stop on Red, and don't be an ass, unless assed upon.I Ride on Tramway sometimes, up to the Sandia Peak tram. That's the hard part. Very steep, slow going even in low gear. But I come down like a rocket, making sure the brakes are in tip top shape. Last thing you want is a brake failure at 50mph. Carbon fiber sole shoes aren't good for that. And yes, I wear lycra when I ride, even in winter, but have thermal pants for that,
 
2013-01-01 07:04:51 PM
Question to bikers, why do people ride in the middle of my street when there's a blacktop bike path not 10ft away going the same direction you are? Just curious.
 
2013-01-01 07:26:56 PM
sobrecuriosidades.com
 
2013-01-01 07:34:49 PM

hockeychick: Question to bikers, why do people ride in the middle of my street when there's a blacktop bike path not 10ft away going the same direction you are? Just curious.


Often the blacktop bike path will be lacking in some way. For example it may have crossings at every side street, where a biker will have to slow down, check for traffic, and then proceed while if they were in the road 10 feet over they would just keep on going because there is no stop sign on the road. Such crossings are also much more dangerous because people turning from the main road onto the side road are not looking on the bike path for traffic travelling the same way as them and will cut you off with little or no warning. Leaf litter and puddles can also be a pain on trails.

Also is it a multi-use trail? sometimes those can get crowded with walkers, strollers, small kids, and dogs most of the day. It just isn't safe for the pedestrians or the biker for the latter be going 20mph on pavement too narrow to really allow for maneuvering. I know a few trails which get heavy use for bicycle commuters during the morning but don't get touched by people biking during the evening or weekend because of how crowded they get with walkers.

And sometimes people are jerks or just prefer to use the route they have biked for years, who knows.
 
2013-01-01 07:39:24 PM

Kraftwerk Orange: joonyer: If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car.

So, you're saying that they should take the lane, and that drivers shouldn't pass them, except when there is a dotted yellow line in their lane?


Yes, and this can become a problem when the speed limit is 65mph and you (driver and bicyclist) are trying to summit a mountain pass and there is no shoulder. It's dangerous for both the driver and cyclist because approaching cars are traveling so fast and might swerve or not and impact either the driver, another driver or the cyclist.
But hey, Tour de France and all. It's good stuff, I like to watch it on TV.
 
2013-01-01 07:40:56 PM

hockeychick: Question to bikers, why do people ride in the middle of my street when there's a blacktop bike path not 10ft away going the same direction you are? Just curious.


Because those bike paths inevitably have to intersect with roads and no one is looking for a bike coming out of one of those, meaning you have to stop at every intersection when riding on one. If you ride on the roads you get seen more reliably and you can take advantage of the green lights that come your way. Plus they're often graded and paved to a lower standard than the roads. And they seldom take you all the way from point A to point B, so you have to get used to riding on the roads part of the way anyway. Might as well just use the roads.
 
2013-01-01 07:42:51 PM
backup:

Link
 
2013-01-01 07:47:32 PM

steve_wmn: hockeychick: Question to bikers, why do people ride in the middle of my street when there's a blacktop bike path not 10ft away going the same direction you are? Just curious.

Because those bike paths inevitably have to intersect with roads and no one is looking for a bike coming out of one of those, meaning you have to stop at every intersection when riding on one. If you ride on the roads you get seen more reliably and you can take advantage of the green lights that come your way. Plus they're often graded and paved to a lower standard than the roads. And they seldom take you all the way from point A to point B, so you have to get used to riding on the roads part of the way anyway. Might as well just use the roads.


So, basically, "Fark you to all of the motorists whose way I get in. I'm willing to inflict incredible inconveniences on a large number of other people in order to spare myself a relatively modest inconvenience."
 
2013-01-01 08:35:32 PM

steve_wmn: hockeychick: Question to bikers, why do people ride in the middle of my street when there's a blacktop bike path not 10ft away going the same direction you are? Just curious.

Because those bike paths inevitably have to intersect with roads and no one is looking for a bike coming out of one of those, meaning you have to stop at every intersection when riding on one. If you ride on the roads you get seen more reliably and you can take advantage of the green lights that come your way. Plus they're often graded and paved to a lower standard than the roads. And they seldom take you all the way from point A to point B, so you have to get used to riding on the roads part of the way anyway. Might as well just use the roads.



If you want to know the real reason why so few US roads have bike lanes/paths, this is it.

We spend hundreds of thousands of tax dollars building a safe bike path, as the cyclists demanded, then those paths go completely unused, so the politicians deem them a waste of money and never build another.
 
2013-01-01 08:46:25 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Romeo_Santana: Same road, Same rules, Same proportional taxes..

Buy a license plate for your bike, or get it the fark off the street!

Locally, reg fees are by vehicle value. Other places by weight or horsepower. You do want to be fair in those fees, right?
Here's the yearly dime for my bike. Happy now?


they normally include an administration fee in the vehicle registration fee to cover costs. So make that %500.10, please (it's a pension thing).
 
2013-01-01 09:19:08 PM

Tommy Moo: steve_wmn: hockeychick: Question to bikers, why do people ride in the middle of my street when there's a blacktop bike path not 10ft away going the same direction you are? Just curious.

Because those bike paths inevitably have to intersect with roads and no one is looking for a bike coming out of one of those, meaning you have to stop at every intersection when riding on one. If you ride on the roads you get seen more reliably and you can take advantage of the green lights that come your way. Plus they're often graded and paved to a lower standard than the roads. And they seldom take you all the way from point A to point B, so you have to get used to riding on the roads part of the way anyway. Might as well just use the roads.

So, basically, "Fark you to all of the motorists whose way I get in. I'm willing to inflict incredible inconveniences on a large number of other people in order to spare myself a relatively modest inconvenience."


Changing lanes and passing a slower moving vehicle rates as an "incredible inconvenience" in your book, but stopping at every intersection and/or being t-boned by some idiot who turns without looking is only a "modest" inconvenience?

Sounds more like you're only rating the inconveniences on whether or not they inconvenience you, snowflake.

Fwiw they don't have those "blacktop bike paths" around here, so I'm not totally familiar with the concept. There is one section of road that I ride which has a sidewalk that people seem to think is such a "bike path", but it's not. It's a sidewalk. I'd rather not mow down a bunch of pedestrians.
 
2013-01-01 09:35:37 PM

joonyer: If I find myself riding in the actual car traffic lane(I define this as "the car traffic behind me either can't or won't pass me because my bike is taking up too much of their lane to do it safely)


Fair enough. This situation is typically marked with signage "Share the Road", indicating that cyclists and autos are using the same lane. Generally, those lanes aren't wide enough for an auto to pass safely, and so those cars shouldn't make the situation worse by passing at all. OTOH, most bicyclists aren't going fast enough to overtake such traffic on those roads - until traffic approaches a stop sign or light. In those situations, there is nothing inherently unsafe (or illegal) for a bicyclist to pass slow or stopped auto traffic on the right, as long as they exercise "due care". In my locale, bikes can even ride on the right shoulder, if necessary, to avoid traffic, and by doing so are able to pass quite easily.

I too live in a very bike-friendly area, and do my best to avoid anything that might get myself or another road user hurt. For 15 years I've managed to "Share the Road", and the only time I ever got hit was by a driver who ran a red light.

ski9600: Kraftwerk Orange: joonyer: If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car.

Yes, and this can become a problem when the speed limit is 65mph and you (driver and bicyclist) are trying to summit a mountain pass and there is no shoulder. It's dangerous for both the driver and cyclist because approaching cars are traveling so fast and might swerve or not and impact either the driver, another driver or the cyclist.
But hey, Tour de France and all. It's good stuff, I like to watch it on TV.


In that case, the only safe action is for the following car to slow down to an appropriately safe and slow speed behind the bicyclist. You say there is no shoulder, so there is no safe area for a bicyclist to pull over, but when such an area appears, the bike should move over (stopping if need be) and let traffic pass. Only a foolish motorist would put themselves and oncoming traffic at risk by attempting to pass a bicyclist in such a scenario.

joonyer: Kraftwerk Orange: joonyer: If the cyclist is actually in the car lane, for whatever reason, then they need to stay in line like everyone else, basically act like a car.


Also, what I was really trying to say in my original statement is that cyclists should not be dodging and weaving from the car traffic lane, to the bike lane, to the sidewalk, and back again, just so they don't have to slow down for anything. That be some boolsheet.



Bicyclists should stay in the bike lane if there is one, but they are allowed to leave the bike lane if needed to pass an obstruction. Sorry you don't like it, but we're allowed to swerve if we need to, just like a car can swerve if they need to. I agree sidewalks are off-limits. I once made a few older black ladies bust out laughing when I very loudly chastised two military school cadets for riding on the sidewalks, explaining that only little girls were allowed to do such a thing (well, all children under 12 are allowed to here, anyway). They got the point, moved into the proper place on the roadway, and one actually apologized, thoroughly embarrassed.
 
2013-01-01 09:43:45 PM

ancker: Marcintosh:
There were a lot of complaints from either side.  People walking like to walk abreast and chat while walking, sometimes they have dogs as well or even children in strollers.
People on bikes like to do about 50-60mph.  The pavement is smooth and flat and that speed is easy to attain if you're a dedicated biker.
There were a few accidents.  The route kept gaining in popularity and became more crowded every month.  So in a flash of intelligence they expanded the system.
It's a pretty cool area in this respect.  In the spring the local DOT will shut down about 3miles of a redundant road every Sunday for the public to play on.

You clearly have no concept of speed. What you think is 50-60mph is probably closer to 20-25mph. The fastest riders in the world only ever achieve 50+ on a downhill portion of a mountain. The worlds top sprinters can get up to 50mph on the flats but only for a few hundred meters.


I broke 50 mph once...once. This was on a downhill on my road bike that I rode home from work every day and I busted my ass to break that speed barrier. It was an old heavy bike but I tried to break 50 mph every day for over a year and managed it only that one time. The driver I passed wasn't too happy about it considering I passed him on the double yellow (I did turn left into my apartment complex at the bottom of the hill so it's not like I passed him and went back over to the right shoulder) and had a cop been at the bottom of the hill I'd have been in trouble. It was a 25 mph speed limit.
 
2013-01-01 09:49:34 PM

serial_crusher: Fwiw they don't have those "blacktop bike paths" around here, so I'm not totally familiar with the concept. There is one section of road that I ride which has a sidewalk that people seem to think is such a "bike path", but it's not. It's a sidewalk. I'd rather not mow down a bunch of pedestrians.


http://i.imgur.com/oQBEq.jpg

This bike path is separated from the road, has no roads or driveways crossing over it, and it as built specifically so cyclists could avoid the traffic from the industrial park.

At least a few times a month, there's an accident at that intersection because some cyclist decided to play chicken against a Semi with a green light, while they could have taken the bike path and went through at full speed without even knowing the intersection is there.

Despite the fact that the bike path has absolutely zero distractions for the entire length of the road, I only see cyclists use it once or twice a year. Meanwhile, the main road is clogged with critical-mass-style protesters slowing the entire road down in what was originally a protest for that very bike path they refuse to use, and the rest of the cyclists just go between (and often under) the semi trucks that the bike path was meant to let them avoid in the first place.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-01-01 09:50:32 PM
This situation is typically marked with signage "Share the Road", indicating that cyclists and autos are using the same lane. Generally, those lanes aren't wide enough for an auto to pass safely, and so those cars shouldn't make the situation worse by passing at all.

"Share the road" seems to mean "the people in charge of this road would like to be considered bicycle-friendly."

There is a recently-standardized sign that reads "bicycles may use full lane." It is meant for use where a lane has been made too narrow for safe sharing. Strictly speaking it doesn't override state law on the subject of bicycles, but it would take a jerk cop to enforce the statute when the sign directs otherwise. It's like those signs directing trucks into the left lane when the right lane's pavement is beat up. State law may require slow traffic to keep right. The state DOT can not change state law on its own initiative. But trucks move left and don't get ticketed for obeying the sign rather than the law.
 
2013-01-01 10:09:53 PM

ZAZ: This situation is typically marked with signage "Share the Road", indicating that cyclists and autos are using the same lane. Generally, those lanes aren't wide enough for an auto to pass safely, and so those cars shouldn't make the situation worse by passing at all.

"Share the road" seems to mean "the people in charge of this road would like to be considered bicycle-friendly."

There is a recently-standardized sign that reads "bicycles may use full lane." It is meant for use where a lane has been made too narrow for safe sharing. Strictly speaking it doesn't override state law on the subject of bicycles, but it would take a jerk cop to enforce the statute when the sign directs otherwise. It's like those signs directing trucks into the left lane when the right lane's pavement is beat up. State law may require slow traffic to keep right. The state DOT can not change state law on its own initiative. But trucks move left and don't get ticketed for obeying the sign rather than the law.


The "bikes may use full lane" signs annoy me. They give idiots the idea that that's only the case on roads with that sign.
 
2013-01-01 10:12:08 PM

serial_crusher: Those guys can go pretty fast.  Not as fast as a bike, but close.


I inline for cardio. It's not uncommon for me to be faster than all of the bikes on the trail/road.

FWIW.
 
2013-01-01 10:14:19 PM

the ha ha guy: serial_crusher: Fwiw they don't have those "blacktop bike paths" around here, so I'm not totally familiar with the concept. There is one section of road that I ride which has a sidewalk that people seem to think is such a "bike path", but it's not. It's a sidewalk. I'd rather not mow down a bunch of pedestrians.

http://i.imgur.com/oQBEq.jpg

This bike path is separated from the road, has no roads or driveways crossing over it, and it as built specifically so cyclists could avoid the traffic from the industrial park.

At least a few times a month, there's an accident at that intersection because some cyclist decided to play chicken against a Semi with a green light, while they could have taken the bike path and went through at full speed without even knowing the intersection is there.

Despite the fact that the bike path has absolutely zero distractions for the entire length of the road, I only see cyclists use it once or twice a year. Meanwhile, the main road is clogged with critical-mass-style protesters slowing the entire road down in what was originally a protest for that very bike path they refuse to use, and the rest of the cyclists just go between (and often under) the semi trucks that the bike path was meant to let them avoid in the first place.


Sounds like a poorly designed bike path. There seems to be a perfectly good shoulder on that road. Why not just smooth it out for use as a bike lane?

Judging from your one screenshot, if somebody wanted to turn at that intersection, they'd have to dismount and walk across that median (I have no idea if there's a fence or anything there), so that would be a big part of why I might choose to use the road instead. Maybe these bikers are employees at said industrial park, trying to get to work.
 
2013-01-01 10:34:20 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Don't forget a proportional cost of enforcement of the rules cyclists regularly ignore.

As opposed to the speeders and red light runners in motor vehicles? Please.
Now add in the cost to take care of the damage done by the respective vehicles. 200lbs (me+bike) crashing into something does not begin to approach the damage of 4600lbs (me+F-150) crashing into something.

I fully agree that a LOT of cyclists routinely do stupid shiat. Blow red lights and stop signs, ride the wrong direction, etc, etc, etc. Asshats.
But so do motor vehicle operators. I could pick any random 1000 yard stretch of street here, and I would be surprised if the percentage of MV operators breaking some law was under 80%.

You notice the bike riders, because they annoy you. If one were to follow you around, how many laws do you break on a normal day?


Well, considering I work from home and rarely drive none there. I also live in downtown and you'll get smoked if you jaywalk, so none there either. Umm, I guess I'm just courteous? I suppose that's why I would like to see everyone follow the law. Even retards on bikes.

/I do, what makes you better than me?
 
2013-01-01 10:34:56 PM

The Angry Hand of God: YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Don't forget a proportional cost of enforcement of the rules cyclists regularly ignore.

As opposed to the speeders and red light runners in motor vehicles? Please.
Now add in the cost to take care of the damage done by the respective vehicles. 200lbs (me+bike) crashing into something does not begin to approach the damage of 4600lbs (me+F-150) crashing into something.

I fully agree that a LOT of cyclists routinely do stupid shiat. Blow red lights and stop signs, ride the wrong direction, etc, etc, etc. Asshats.
But so do motor vehicle operators. I could pick any random 1000 yard stretch of street here, and I would be surprised if the percentage of MV operators breaking some law was under 80%.

You notice the bike riders, because they annoy you. If one were to follow you around, how many laws do you break on a normal day?

I completely agree with this. To all those saying, "OMG, WHY U NO GIVE TICKETS TO CYCLISTS WHO RUN RED LIGHT?" I would love to see how many of you jaywalk.


I don't.
 
2013-01-01 10:38:12 PM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Don't forget a proportional cost of enforcement of the rules cyclists regularly ignore.

As opposed to the speeders and red light runners in motor vehicles? Please.
Now add in the cost to take care of the damage done by the respective vehicles. 200lbs (me+bike) crashing into something does not begin to approach the damage of 4600lbs (me+F-150) crashing into something.

I fully agree that a LOT of cyclists routinely do stupid shiat. Blow red lights and stop signs, ride the wrong direction, etc, etc, etc. Asshats.
But so do motor vehicle operators. I could pick any random 1000 yard stretch of street here, and I would be surprised if the percentage of MV operators breaking some law was under 80%.

You notice the bike riders, because they annoy you. If one were to follow you around, how many laws do you break on a normal day?

Well, considering I work from home and rarely drive none there. I also live in downtown and you'll get smoked if you jaywalk, so none there either. Umm, I guess I'm just courteous? I suppose that's why I would like to see everyone follow the law. Even retards on bikes.

/I do, what makes you better than me?


I don't use the word "retard" casually.
 
2013-01-01 10:41:22 PM

serial_crusher: Judging from your one screenshot, if somebody wanted to turn at that intersection, they'd have to dismount and walk across that median (I have no idea if there's a fence or anything there), so that would be a big part of why I might choose to use the road instead. Maybe these bikers are employees at said industrial park, trying to get to work.


Out of dozens of bikes that I see on that road each day for the past five years, I have never once seen one turn at that intersection.

And so what if it's a poorly designed path, it's still far safer than running a red light and ending up under a truck.

Every accident I've seen so far, has been between a truck turning left on a green light, and a cyclist running a red light in the passing lane of the eastbound lanes.

There's absolutely zero need to cross the road, or even go in the grass, all they have to do is get on the shoulder or right lane when running a red light and they'll be in zero danger (or at least no more danger than the rest of the road). Instead, they purposely place themselves as close as they possibly can to oncoming traffic so they can be made a martyr and get even more protesters to come out and clog the road demanding that something be done about the dangerous intersection that is largely accident-free except for red light running cyclists who claim that the intersection is dangerous.

For reference, I've color coded the spots I'm talking about.

The blue line is the bike path. The yellow line is the shoulder, and the red line is the path of nearly every red light running bike that gets hit by a semi truck.
In the opposite direction, I rarely see bikes at all, and I've never once seen one attempt to go through that red light.

i.imgur.com
 
2013-01-01 11:32:28 PM

the ha ha guy: Every accident I've seen so far, has been between a truck turning left on a green light, and a cyclist running a red light in the passing lane of the eastbound lanes.


ok, either your area is the moron center of the world or you're full of shiat.
 
2013-01-02 12:40:00 AM

Kraftwerk Orange: Likewise, I get the frantic wavers as well,


I hate the wavers. I SEE YOU. That's why you're waving at me. farking Go.

It gets especially bad when walking around college campuses. I'll time it right to step right off the curb and behind a car. I've had someone lock it up on me before. At which point I just stood there and stared at them until they drove through.

The Angry Hand of God: I would love to see how many of you jaywalk.


You know it's only jaywalking if you're impeding traffic. As in if there are 0 cars on the road it's not jay walking. Stop signs are not so optional.
 
2013-01-02 12:42:21 AM
If this law didn't originate in the Midwest I wouldn't be so farking terrified of it moving to Portland, but alas...
 
2013-01-02 04:20:49 AM

al's hat: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: YouPeopleAreCrazy: detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Don't forget a proportional cost of enforcement of the rules cyclists regularly ignore.

As opposed to the speeders and red light runners in motor vehicles? Please.
Now add in the cost to take care of the damage done by the respective vehicles. 200lbs (me+bike) crashing into something does not begin to approach the damage of 4600lbs (me+F-150) crashing into something.

I fully agree that a LOT of cyclists routinely do stupid shiat. Blow red lights and stop signs, ride the wrong direction, etc, etc, etc. Asshats.
But so do motor vehicle operators. I could pick any random 1000 yard stretch of street here, and I would be surprised if the percentage of MV operators breaking some law was under 80%.

You notice the bike riders, because they annoy you. If one were to follow you around, how many laws do you break on a normal day?

Well, considering I work from home and rarely drive none there. I also live in downtown and you'll get smoked if you jaywalk, so none there either. Umm, I guess I'm just courteous? I suppose that's why I would like to see everyone follow the law. Even retards on bikes.

/I do, what makes you better than me?

I don't use the word "retard" casually.


Wow, setting that bar awfully high.
 
2013-01-02 08:51:31 AM

Tommy Moo: steve_wmn: hockeychick: Question to bikers, why do people ride in the middle of my street when there's a blacktop bike path not 10ft away going the same direction you are? Just curious.

Because those bike paths inevitably have to intersect with roads and no one is looking for a bike coming out of one of those, meaning you have to stop at every intersection when riding on one. If you ride on the roads you get seen more reliably and you can take advantage of the green lights that come your way. Plus they're often graded and paved to a lower standard than the roads. And they seldom take you all the way from point A to point B, so you have to get used to riding on the roads part of the way anyway. Might as well just use the roads.

So, basically, "Fark you to all of the motorists whose way I get in. I'm willing to inflict incredible inconveniences on a large number of other people in order to spare myself a relatively modest inconvenience."


As other guy said, people often turn right over cycle lanes and run over cyclist. Cycle lane on the far right really aren't safe due to this. Generally the cyclist in the middle of a road is attempting to go as close to the speed limit as they possibly can. If the cyclist was a slow moving motorcycle you wouldn't be so pissed.
 
2013-01-02 09:22:12 AM

darkscout: You know it's only jaywalking if you're impeding traffic.


It's also only jaywalking if you're within a block that's adjacent to an intersection with a crosswalk.
 
2013-01-03 07:57:46 AM

MindStalker: If the cyclist was a slow moving motorcycle you wouldn't be so pissed.


Yes I would.
 
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