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(NewsChannel 5 Nashville) NewsFlash Obama says fiscal cliff deal is "emerging." OK HOPE IS COMING OUT   (newschannel5.com) divider line 993
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4950 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Dec 2012 at 2:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-12-31 06:27:59 PM

Relatively Obscure: scubamage: That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

You have $8,000/month in random "monthly bills" that you didn't list?


Coke, it's a helll of a drug.
 
2012-12-31 06:28:19 PM
scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.
 
2012-12-31 06:28:30 PM

Relatively Obscure: scubamage: That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

You have $8,000/month in random "monthly bills" that you didn't list?


yeah, I just checked his math. He's a retard.
 
2012-12-31 06:29:46 PM

chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.


My math showed him with just over 7000 a month after bills that he listed. He's either got one HELL of a coke habit or he's a retarded troll.
 
2012-12-31 06:31:08 PM

Infernalist: chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.

My math showed him with just over 7000 a month after bills that he listed. He's either got one HELL of a coke habit or he's a retarded troll.


t.qkme.me
 
2012-12-31 06:31:54 PM

chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.


She's a teacher so she instantly loses 7% of her salary to state pension funds, then another 5% to her 403b (it's a bargaining item for the union, so she has to do it, it's not something she can "decline". Her bi-weekly takehome is $1100. Mine is $1475.
 
2012-12-31 06:31:58 PM

scubamage: Uranus Is Huge!: scubamage: tenpoundsofcheese: scubamage: jayphat: scubamage: jayphat: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.

how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?

Lots of people proposed lots of things. It didn't happen. Now we increase taxes and reduce spending. How could this not reduce the debt?

where is the reduced spending in this deal?

There is no deal. Sequester must take effect. That's what the deal was supposed to avoid.

Stand by for massive cuts all across the government. It should be entertaining as all hell.

Jesus christ there won't be massive cuts. There will be a 1.5% cut in government spending. THAT'S IT.

Sadly on average most american families are looking at around 2500$ in taxes a year. My household is looking at around 350$ a month in additional taxes, which sucks, a lot. That's groceries for us thanks to mortgage, student loans, and car loan.

What "average" is this based in?

Link


My household makes less with similar bills. We have more than $200 in disposable income each month. You're doing it wrong if you are unable to get by on 130k+ annually.

Oh yeah, oil heat costs around 600$ every 6 weeks, so that's another bill. 240 a month for groceries (60 a week).

You're right, I should stop putting money in my 401k, she should stop putting money in her 403b, and we should cancel our wedding and just get married by a justice of the peace.

You may not like it, but I keep immaculate track of my spending because my idiot parents had no grasp on their own finances (and in their early 70's they still owe tens of thousands on their home that they've had for close to 40 years). I pay ~28% on my federal taxes, 1% to municiple taxes, 1% to county, 3.8% of my salary to Philadelphia for their "work privilege" tax, and I honestly don't know about state. We were fine (an additional 550 a month) until the furnace broke and cost around 10k to replace. I have a record of every transaction I've made for the past 3 years, as well as an itemized monthly budget for the past 5. Do you? Don't act like "I'm doing it wrong" and that I should just be happy when our monthly take home suddenly decreases by ~580$ a month. That's not exactly the sort of change you budget for.



Wow, you put a ton away for retirement a year. I can respect that. If the rest of the salaries are going into retirement saving though, it's not exactly untouchable. It can be changed, and a higher tax wouldn't cripple you as much as you believe.
 
2012-12-31 06:32:36 PM

Infernalist: Notabunny: Whatever. The "Fiscal Cliff" is old. Let's move on to the next unnecessary and fabricated drama. I hear Obama is going to negate Congress and use the 14th Amendment to pay our bills.

I'm okay with this.


It's better than having the Republicans hold our credit rating hostage again. Basically, Obama is saying there will be no repeat of the last Republican-created fiasco, and if they don't like it they can impeach him.
 
2012-12-31 06:32:44 PM
i2.listal.com
Don't Panic Don't Panic!!!
 
2012-12-31 06:32:47 PM

chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.


It could be that the furnace uses cash as a fuel source. It's supposed to be better for the environment, but you only really see the effects if you feed it twenties or higher.
 
2012-12-31 06:33:52 PM

scubamage: chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.

She's a teacher so she instantly loses 7% of her salary to state pension funds, then another 5% to her 403b (it's a bargaining item for the union, so she has to do it, it's not something she can "decline". Her bi-weekly takehome is $1100. Mine is $1475.


That still leaves you almost $40k for hookers and blow. Not sure why you're complaining.
 
2012-12-31 06:34:20 PM
Well, your retardation continues. With your new numbers, your fiance's take home went from 60k to less than 29k. Your own take home went from 70k to 38k.

I think you should probably pick up a second job, son.
 
2012-12-31 06:34:44 PM

Murphyr: chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.

It could be that the furnace uses cash as a fuel source. It's supposed to be better for the environment, but you only really see the effects if you feed it twenties or higher.


It may as well, the damn thing used to cost 800-1000$ every 6 weeks to refill with oil. The 10k we spent to replace should pay for itself in about 2 years. Sadly gas and electric aren't options for our home right now.
 
2012-12-31 06:34:52 PM

rohar: Relatively Obscure: scubamage: That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

You have $8,000/month in random "monthly bills" that you didn't list?

Coke, it's a helll of a drug.



I'm mostly shocked that he doesn't pay any taxes.
 
2012-12-31 06:35:05 PM

scubamage: chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.

She's a teacher so she instantly loses 7% of her salary to state pension funds, then another 5% to her 403b (it's a bargaining item for the union, so she has to do it, it's not something she can "decline". Her bi-weekly takehome is $1100. Mine is $1475.


Which now means "monthly bills" pay you $495 per month, by my math.
 
2012-12-31 06:36:08 PM

Marine1: Yeah. Have more people consuming services while simultaneously not contributing as much.

Brilliant.


This article summarizes my position pretty clearly.
 
2012-12-31 06:36:53 PM

scubamage: Murphyr: chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.

It could be that the furnace uses cash as a fuel source. It's supposed to be better for the environment, but you only really see the effects if you feed it twenties or higher.

It may as well, the damn thing used to cost 800-1000$ every 6 weeks to refill with oil. The 10k we spent to replace should pay for itself in about 2 years. Sadly gas and electric aren't options for our home right now.


Maybe you should do a better job of living within your means and quit whining about temporary tax relief that may or may not expire.
 
2012-12-31 06:38:08 PM

skullkrusher: rohar: Relatively Obscure: scubamage: That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

You have $8,000/month in random "monthly bills" that you didn't list?

Coke, it's a helll of a drug.


I'm mostly shocked that he doesn't pay any taxes.


Drug dealers generally don't.
 
2012-12-31 06:38:15 PM

scubamage: Uranus Is Huge!: scubamage: tenpoundsofcheese: scubamage: jayphat: scubamage: jayphat: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.

how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?

Lots of people proposed lots of things. It didn't happen. Now we increase taxes and reduce spending. How could this not reduce the debt?

where is the reduced spending in this deal?

There is no deal. Sequester must take effect. That's what the deal was supposed to avoid.

Stand by for massive cuts all across the government. It should be entertaining as all hell.

Jesus christ there won't be massive cuts. There will be a 1.5% cut in government spending. THAT'S IT.

Sadly on average most american families are looking at around 2500$ in taxes a year. My household is looking at around 350$ a month in additional taxes, which sucks, a lot. That's groceries for us thanks to mortgage, student loans, and car loan.

What "average" is this based in?

Link

I misremembered, it's 3500, not 2500. So my household is looking at an additional ~7000$ in a taxes a year.

pay up.  part of the social contract.  if you earn that much money, you should be happy to pay your fair share.

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

My household makes less with similar bills. We have more than $200 in disposable income each month. You're doing it wrong if you are unable to get by on 130k+ annually.

Oh yeah, oil heat costs around 600$ every 6 weeks, so that's another bill. 240 a month for groceries (60 a week).

You're right, I should stop putt ...


If you have to have a low-key wedding in order to not lose your house...then them's the kinds of sacrifices one makes. And what's wrong with a justice of the peace? My parents were married by one. See, this is one of the things wrong with Americans. We want everything we want, and we'll pay obnoxious amounts of money for those things, but taxes? No, not taxes. Taxes aren't fun or sexy, like cars and houses and weddings and vacations.
 
2012-12-31 06:38:29 PM

skullkrusher: bartink: Incomes tend to account for that

that's the point. Incomes DO account for that. Tax system does not. It's blanket across the country.


It seems to be that an income tax system should take a percentage of income from someone. If you have a problem with it, then fix it some other way.

You still haven't suggested how this new system might work, btw.
 
2012-12-31 06:38:55 PM

Notabunny: Infernalist: Notabunny: Whatever. The "Fiscal Cliff" is old. Let's move on to the next unnecessary and fabricated drama. I hear Obama is going to negate Congress and use the 14th Amendment to pay our bills.

I'm okay with this.

It's better than having the Republicans hold our credit rating hostage again. Basically, Obama Clinton is saying there will be no repeat of the last Republican-created fiasco, and if they don't like it they can impeach him Obama.


FTFM. Sloppy reading.
 
2012-12-31 06:39:24 PM

Infernalist: Bendal: Infernalist: Hermione_Granger: All that means is that the spineless bastard probably gave the Republicans everything they asked for.

He makes me sick and his inability to stick to his guns pisses me off. Of all the Charlie Browns, he is the Charlie Browniest and Boehner is Lucy with the farking football.

Are we actually looking at the same reality?

Here's what's happening: The cliff is going to happen. Taxes go up to Clinton Era rates before the Bush Tax Cuts happened. Spending goes back to 2008 levels. A 12% cut to Defense spending, a 12% cut to Discretionary spending.

The first day of the new Congress, House Democrats will put forth a bill cutting taxes on everyone making under 250k a year, and dare the GOP to block it or vote it down. It'll quickly get passed, both sides will lay claim to the credit and we'll move on.

There aren't enough House Democrats to pass anything without help from the Republicans. Rest assured if there's any attempt to cut taxes on only those making less than $250k, the House Republicans will make damn sure those cuts affect everyone. It will pass the House and then the Senate Democrats are in trouble; do they go along with the House bill and approve it, or try and cut it back down to only the $250k limit (and watch the Senate Republicans filibuster the crap out of their effort)? Either way they'll get the blame and the Republicans will take the praise.

I think you're not quite understanding what I'm saying.

The first day of the new Congress, the House Democrats will put forth a bill cutting taxes ONLY on those making under 250k a year. They will emphasize this point. They will demand that the GOP agree to the bill or be known as those who would rather cut taxes for the rich rather than the rest of us. The GOP, desperate for anything good, will fight for a bit, but then go along with the bill, especially after the news sites harp about the GOP delaying tax cuts in favor of their super-rich owners.

They'll go along w ...


Oh I understand what you're saying, I just don't think the Republicans in the House will do what you are predicting. If Democrats want to cut only taxes for those making less than 250k, the Republicans in the House will say "fine but you can't pass that by yourself", and rewrite the bill cutting taxes on everyone. Republicans can and would pass that bill and House Democrats are trapped; do they vote for a wide ranging tax cut, or refuse to vote for it and get labeled by opponents as "they didn't vote for a tax cut for you!". Senate Democrats can pass the bill as sent to them by the House (with tax cuts for everyone), but if they try and change the bill then Senate Republicans can and would filibuster to stop them. I just don't see Republicans as allowing a limited tax cut bill out of the House without making it a tax cut for everyone, and the Democrats can't stop them from doing so.
 
2012-12-31 06:39:57 PM

Notabunny: Notabunny: Infernalist: Notabunny: Whatever. The "Fiscal Cliff" is old. Let's move on to the next unnecessary and fabricated drama. I hear Obama is going to negate Congress and use the 14th Amendment to pay our bills.

I'm okay with this.

It's better than having the Republicans hold our credit rating hostage again. Basically, Obama Clinton is saying there will be no repeat of the last Republican-created fiasco, and if they don't like it they can impeach him Obama.

FTFM. Sloppy reading.


Well, he still said it. He just had Clinton to pass the message along to them.
 
2012-12-31 06:40:13 PM

jayphat: HammerHeadSnark: The Larch: Active introvert: The combined income of my sister and her husband is around 260K. My sister is a school teacher at a private school teaching 1st graders. Her husband works for a company that provides floor sealants for industrial floors, he's a supervisor. They work very hard and both have had their jobs for over 10 years. These people are not the 1%.These people aren't rich. These are hard working Americans who work hard for their money and while they live comfortably, they EARNED IT. Why should they pay more so entitalment programs to "help" those who don't wish to work can continue?

But let's suppose your sister and her husband are in the one third of households making between $250K and $300K that would be affected by Obama's original plan to raise the marginal tax rate on incomes over $250,000 from 33% to 36%. They would see a tax increase of no more than... three hundred dollars a year.


To put that $300+ into perspective, it amounts to about $7 a week. That's a crushing blow. . . .

Can I ask a serious question. What the fark is the point in this? Why are we bothering to take this extra from people when it won't do shiat to the federal budget?


Well, the $7 a week applies only to those families that are being taxed on AGI of $260,000 ($10K over $250K). There are just slightly less than 4 million household earning more than $250K -- many making far more than $260K -- the amount specified in the crap story about the guy's sister and brother-in-law.

Is your AGI a million dollars -- even after you've tried every trick to bring it down? Well, you're gonna pay an extra 3% on $750,000 ($22,500 or ~$450). That's way more than one extra fat, double creamy, triple shot espresso per week.
 
2012-12-31 06:40:34 PM

Infernalist: Well, your retardation continues. With your new numbers, your fiance's take home went from 60k to less than 29k. Your own take home went from 70k to 38k.

I think you should probably pick up a second job, son.


I'd love to if I didn't spend 5 hours a day commuting (1 hour on a train plus 1.5 hours on the road, each way). Sadly with the size of my student loans, there's not a lot of places in my immediate area that can pay enough for me to stay solvent, so I eat around 600$ a month on commuting costs (191$ for train, ~300 on gas, 24$ for parking). Moving isn't an option because the fiance has tenure as an arts teacher, so if she left she'd most likely not find another job (thanks to Corbett and the other politicians cutting school funding).

And I'd appreciate it if you'd stop acting like I'm a tard, considering I'm willing to put in the time to keep our heads above water. I keep immaculate records of my finances, I've never missed a payment to anyone, I know exactly where my money is going. But because I can't afford a sudden increase of 580$ a month I'm somehow a retard. I'm not the sort of person you should be going after - I'm sure there are plenty of assholes around ignoring their taxes and leeching off the system that are far more deserving of the label.
 
2012-12-31 06:40:56 PM

bartink: skullkrusher: bartink: Incomes tend to account for that

that's the point. Incomes DO account for that. Tax system does not. It's blanket across the country.

It seems to be that an income tax system should take a percentage of income from someone. If you have a problem with it, then fix it some other way.

You still haven't suggested how this new system might work, btw.


the point of a progressive tax system is to tax marginally less useful dollars at higher rates. However, different standards of living makes these levels variant.

Why not a deduction indexed to the cost of living? We can keep the brackets the same but give people greater (or lesser) breaks on what is taxable income based on the relative cost of their area.
 
2012-12-31 06:41:42 PM

scubamage: Uranus Is Huge!: scubamage: tenpoundsofcheese: scubamage: jayphat: scubamage: jayphat: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.

how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?

Lots of people proposed lots of things. It didn't happen. Now we increase taxes and reduce spending. How could this not reduce the debt?

where is the reduced spending in this deal?

There is no deal. Sequester must take effect. That's what the deal was supposed to avoid.

Stand by for massive cuts all across the government. It should be entertaining as all hell.

Jesus christ there won't be massive cuts. There will be a 1.5% cut in government spending. THAT'S IT.

Sadly on average most american families are looking at around 2500$ in taxes a year. My household is looking at around 350$ a month in additional taxes, which sucks, a lot. That's groceries for us thanks to mortgage, student loans, and car loan.

What "average" is this based in?

Link

I misremembered, it's 3500, not 2500. So my household is looking at an additional ~7000$ in a taxes a year.

pay up.  part of the social contract.  if you earn that much money, you should be happy to pay your fair share.

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

My household makes less with similar bills. We have more than $200 in disposable income each month. You're doing it wrong if you are unable to get by on 130k+ annually.

Oh yeah, oil heat costs around 600$ every 6 weeks, so that's another bill. 240 a month for groceries (60 a week).

You're right, I should stop putt ...


Um, my wife and I take home HALF of what you do and pay $1500/mo on daycare, $1200/mo mortgage, $525 car loan (paying off early), $500/mo on groceries, and still saving to 401K, college funds, Roth IRAs. I know where every dime of our money is going and we are doing fine.

You are blowing money on something or lying about knowing how to budget.
 
2012-12-31 06:42:04 PM
tax increase+spending cuts =  recession.
 
2012-12-31 06:42:25 PM

chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.


Ahhhh, yes, there we go. I was wondering how long it would take for people to start going off on these specifics. EVERYBODY PILE ON!
 
2012-12-31 06:43:25 PM

Bendal: Infernalist: Bendal: Infernalist: Hermione_Granger: All that means is that the spineless bastard probably gave the Republicans everything they asked for.

He makes me sick and his inability to stick to his guns pisses me off. Of all the Charlie Browns, he is the Charlie Browniest and Boehner is Lucy with the farking football.

Are we actually looking at the same reality?

Here's what's happening: The cliff is going to happen. Taxes go up to Clinton Era rates before the Bush Tax Cuts happened. Spending goes back to 2008 levels. A 12% cut to Defense spending, a 12% cut to Discretionary spending.

The first day of the new Congress, House Democrats will put forth a bill cutting taxes on everyone making under 250k a year, and dare the GOP to block it or vote it down. It'll quickly get passed, both sides will lay claim to the credit and we'll move on.

There aren't enough House Democrats to pass anything without help from the Republicans. Rest assured if there's any attempt to cut taxes on only those making less than $250k, the House Republicans will make damn sure those cuts affect everyone. It will pass the House and then the Senate Democrats are in trouble; do they go along with the House bill and approve it, or try and cut it back down to only the $250k limit (and watch the Senate Republicans filibuster the crap out of their effort)? Either way they'll get the blame and the Republicans will take the praise.

I think you're not quite understanding what I'm saying.

The first day of the new Congress, the House Democrats will put forth a bill cutting taxes ONLY on those making under 250k a year. They will emphasize this point. They will demand that the GOP agree to the bill or be known as those who would rather cut taxes for the rich rather than the rest of us. The GOP, desperate for anything good, will fight for a bit, but then go along with the bill, especially after the news sites harp about the GOP delaying tax cuts in favor of their super-rich owners.

They' ...


If they try to amend the bill, the Democrats will abandon it and leave it to the GOP to pass without their support to the Senate where it'll get dumped. They'll then open a new bill and try again. And each time they do, the GOP will get ANOTHER 'Breaking News!' report on the news sites about the GOP torpedoed another tax cutting bill by attaching riders giving cuts to the people who need them least of all.

Playing right into the President's hands. You have to understand: He got reelected on his premise of taxing the rich more. The majority of Americans support this concept and want to see it done. The GOP will be cutting their own throats in 2014 if they refuse to pass the Democrats' bill, and they know it.
 
2012-12-31 06:44:12 PM

scubamage: Infernalist: Well, your retardation continues. With your new numbers, your fiance's take home went from 60k to less than 29k. Your own take home went from 70k to 38k.

I think you should probably pick up a second job, son.

I'd love to if I didn't spend 5 hours a day commuting (1 hour on a train plus 1.5 hours on the road, each way). Sadly with the size of my student loans, there's not a lot of places in my immediate area that can pay enough for me to stay solvent, so I eat around 600$ a month on commuting costs (191$ for train, ~300 on gas, 24$ for parking). Moving isn't an option because the fiance has tenure as an arts teacher, so if she left she'd most likely not find another job (thanks to Corbett and the other politicians cutting school funding).

And I'd appreciate it if you'd stop acting like I'm a tard, considering I'm willing to put in the time to keep our heads above water. I keep immaculate records of my finances, I've never missed a payment to anyone, I know exactly where my money is going. But because I can't afford a sudden increase of 580$ a month I'm somehow a retard. I'm not the sort of person you should be going after - I'm sure there are plenty of assholes around ignoring their taxes and leeching off the system that are far more deserving of the label.

Sounds to me like your fiance is the one holding you guys back.

Why don't you drop the dead weight?
 
2012-12-31 06:44:45 PM

rohar: scubamage: chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.

She's a teacher so she instantly loses 7% of her salary to state pension funds, then another 5% to her 403b (it's a bargaining item for the union, so she has to do it, it's not something she can "decline". Her bi-weekly takehome is $1100. Mine is $1475.

That still leaves you almost $40k for hookers and blow. Not sure why you're complaining.


Probably because you NEED his money to survive.
 
2012-12-31 06:45:07 PM

skullkrusher: What if you make 6.5x the median family in Mississippi? See, cuz that's what $250,000 represents there. So let's just tax that the same as $250,000 in NYC because it's more than you make so what the fark do you care?


The point I am making is that the argument that 250k is not a lot of money in NYC is stupid. I don't give shiat about Mississippi, 250k is a shiatload there too.

tenpoundsofcheese: You are missing the point.
It isn't about what hit you "can stand" it is about what is fair.


Considering the actual rates paid by the higher brackets is lower than the middle class the fairness argument is moot. Higher taxes on taxable income over 250k is fair.
 
2012-12-31 06:46:41 PM

Mighty Taternuts: The point I am making is that the argument that 250k is not a lot of money in NYC is stupid. I don't give shiat about Mississippi, 250k is a shiatload there too.


much more of a "shiatload" but as far as our tax system is concerned, exactly the same
 
2012-12-31 06:46:43 PM

skullkrusher: Why not a deduction indexed to the cost of living? We can keep the brackets the same but give people greater (or lesser) breaks on what is taxable income based on the relative cost of their area.


How localized is that area? By state? City? Neighborhood? Do we give a rich person that blows their money on a nice house in a nice neighborhood a bigger tax break, instead of encouraging investment? And then cost of living becomes a political football, to be argued over.

As much as I'd like to stick it to those rural retards that call urbanites moochers for wanting more robust government, that doesn't seem like a workable solution to me.
 
2012-12-31 06:47:16 PM

KarmicDisaster: tax increase+spending cuts =  recession.


so simple yet soooooooooooooooo ignored
 
2012-12-31 06:48:10 PM

bartink: skullkrusher: Why not a deduction indexed to the cost of living? We can keep the brackets the same but give people greater (or lesser) breaks on what is taxable income based on the relative cost of their area.

How localized is that area? By state? City? Neighborhood? Do we give a rich person that blows their money on a nice house in a nice neighborhood a bigger tax break, instead of encouraging investment? And then cost of living becomes a political football, to be argued over.

As much as I'd like to stick it to those rural retards that call urbanites moochers for wanting more robust government, that doesn't seem like a workable solution to me.


it wouldn't be based on what you spend money on. Everyone gets a standard deduction of $5k and change. How is that fair? it's not and no one seems to give a shiat
 
2012-12-31 06:48:35 PM

skullkrusher: bartink: skullkrusher: bartink: Incomes tend to account for that

that's the point. Incomes DO account for that. Tax system does not. It's blanket across the country.

It seems to be that an income tax system should take a percentage of income from someone. If you have a problem with it, then fix it some other way.

You still haven't suggested how this new system might work, btw.

the point of a progressive tax system is to tax marginally less useful dollars at higher rates. However, different standards of living makes these levels variant.

Why not a deduction indexed to the cost of living? We can keep the brackets the same but give people greater (or lesser) breaks on what is taxable income based on the relative cost of their area.


I have to wonder how this would impact the already disproportionate spending on red states.
 
2012-12-31 06:48:44 PM

Infernalist: He got reelected on his premise of taxing the rich more.


This needs to be repeated more.

I don't understand how most people just don't get it.
 
2012-12-31 06:49:22 PM

scubamage: chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.

She's a teacher so she instantly loses 7% of her salary to state pension funds, then another 5% to her 403b (it's a bargaining item for the union, so she has to do it, it's not something she can "decline". Her bi-weekly takehome is $1100. Mine is $1475.


You sir are grossly losing money somewhere. I have a salary of 54K here in Ohio, pay medical for both myself and my spouse, and I bring home more than that bi-weekly. I've also lowered my 401K contribution to 1% for the time until she finds work. My rent is 1K a month. Car is 375. No student loans. Still, you're losing money.
 
2012-12-31 06:50:12 PM

skullkrusher: bartink: skullkrusher: Why not a deduction indexed to the cost of living? We can keep the brackets the same but give people greater (or lesser) breaks on what is taxable income based on the relative cost of their area.

How localized is that area? By state? City? Neighborhood? Do we give a rich person that blows their money on a nice house in a nice neighborhood a bigger tax break, instead of encouraging investment? And then cost of living becomes a political football, to be argued over.

As much as I'd like to stick it to those rural retards that call urbanites moochers for wanting more robust government, that doesn't seem like a workable solution to me.

it wouldn't be based on what you spend money on. Everyone gets a standard deduction of $5k and change. How is that fair? it's not and no one seems to give a shiat


Skullkrusher, when I tell my 5 year old daughter it's time for bed, you know what she says? "IT'S NOT FAIR!"

Good to see you're at least keeping up with her on your debate skills.
 
2012-12-31 06:51:29 PM

skullkrusher: KarmicDisaster: tax increase+spending cuts =  recession.

so simple yet soooooooooooooooo ignored


Yes, I was ignoring it out of sympathy and the same sort of politeness you give a retard who shiat himself while in a restaurant.

See, the premise that we're DOOMED to recession because of this is blissfully ignorant because it presumes that the new Congress isn't going to be tripping all over itself to pass tax cut bills to ease the pain on the majority of the population. And then there's the probability of new legislation that'll give the DoD authority to pick and choose which programs and aspects of its budget will be cut to satisfy the sequester's 12% requirement. Same thing with Medicare and its managers.

The only way this turns into a recession is if they turn off the lights in Congress and forget to go back to work after January 1st.
 
2012-12-31 06:51:55 PM

KungFuJunkie: scubamage: Uranus Is Huge!: scubamage: tenpoundsofcheese: scubamage: jayphat: scubamage: jayphat: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.

how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?

Lots of people proposed lots of things. It didn't happen. Now we increase taxes and reduce spending. How could this not reduce the debt?

where is the reduced spending in this deal?

There is no deal. Sequester must take effect. That's what the deal was supposed to avoid.

Stand by for massive cuts all across the government. It should be entertaining as all hell.

Jesus christ there won't be massive cuts. There will be a 1.5% cut in government spending. THAT'S IT.

Sadly on average most american families are looking at around 2500$ in taxes a year. My household is looking at around 350$ a month in additional taxes, which sucks, a lot. That's groceries for us thanks to mortgage, student loans, and car loan.

What "average" is this based in?

Link

I misremembered, it's 3500, not 2500. So my household is looking at an additional ~7000$ in a taxes a year.

pay up.  part of the social contract.  if you earn that much money, you should be happy to pay your fair share.

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

My household makes less with similar bills. We have more than $200 in disposable income each month. You're doing it wrong if you are unable to get by on 130k+ annually.

Oh yeah, oil heat costs around 600$ every 6 weeks, so that's another bill. 240 a month for groceries (60 a week).

You're right, I shoul ...


I couldn't stand it anymore and called my friend in retirement planning. The math was driving me up a wall. We went over the numbers that are available. Her conclusion was either a) He's lying about income; or b) He's a troll.
We just can't figure where thousands of dollars are going every month for this guy. Does he or his significant other have series gambling problems, or hobbies that are money sinks? Even factoring in a wedding doesn't account for the losses unless their having a $40K wedding once a month.
Looked at my own finances by comparison and determined I must be doing something right.
 
2012-12-31 06:52:09 PM

rohar: skullkrusher: bartink: skullkrusher: Why not a deduction indexed to the cost of living? We can keep the brackets the same but give people greater (or lesser) breaks on what is taxable income based on the relative cost of their area.

How localized is that area? By state? City? Neighborhood? Do we give a rich person that blows their money on a nice house in a nice neighborhood a bigger tax break, instead of encouraging investment? And then cost of living becomes a political football, to be argued over.

As much as I'd like to stick it to those rural retards that call urbanites moochers for wanting more robust government, that doesn't seem like a workable solution to me.

it wouldn't be based on what you spend money on. Everyone gets a standard deduction of $5k and change. How is that fair? it's not and no one seems to give a shiat

Skullkrusher, when I tell my 5 year old daughter it's time for bed, you know what she says? "IT'S NOT FAIR!"

Good to see you're at least keeping up with her on your debate skills.


lol
 
2012-12-31 06:52:21 PM
"If they try to amend the bill, the Democrats will abandon it and leave it to the GOP to pass without their support to the Senate where it'll get dumped. They'll then open a new bill and try again. And each time they do, the GOP will get ANOTHER 'Breaking News!' report on the news sites about the GOP torpedoed another tax cutting bill by attaching riders giving cuts to the people who need them least of all.

Playing right into the President's hands. You have to understand: He got reelected on his premise of taxing the rich more. The majority of Americans support this concept and want to see it done. The GOP will be cutting their own throats in 2014 if they refuse to pass the Democrats' bill, and they know it."

Yes, but the Republicans do not believe Obama's re-election means they have to change their tactics, and this latest disaster shows they are still acting like it's "business as usual". We the people may want taxes raised on the rich, but the Republicans still have a majority in the House and enough in the Senate to control what gets passed, and I predict they won't let that happen.
 
2012-12-31 06:52:26 PM

Civil_War2_Time: rohar: scubamage: chuggernaught: scubamage

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

So $130,000 per year salary wise (before taxes I assume), and $34,440 going out a year in the bills you listed with dollar amounts. How much are your other bills that you only have $200 left at the end of each month? You must be oozing money somewhere else. Figure fuel, groceries, clothes, utilities, etc. I just can't figure where you're losing the rest of your salaries. Either you're trolling and committed a cardinal troll sin by using actual numbers, or you are as bad as I am when it comes to finances.

She's a teacher so she instantly loses 7% of her salary to state pension funds, then another 5% to her 403b (it's a bargaining item for the union, so she has to do it, it's not something she can "decline". Her bi-weekly takehome is $1100. Mine is $1475.

That still leaves you almost $40k for hookers and blow. Not sure why you're complaining.

Probably because you NEED his money to survive.


i.imgur.com
 
2012-12-31 06:52:40 PM

KungFuJunkie: scubamage: Uranus Is Huge!: scubamage: tenpoundsofcheese: scubamage: jayphat: scubamage: jayphat: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.

how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?

Lots of people proposed lots of things. It didn't happen. Now we increase taxes and reduce spending. How could this not reduce the debt?

where is the reduced spending in this deal?

There is no deal. Sequester must take effect. That's what the deal was supposed to avoid.

Stand by for massive cuts all across the government. It should be entertaining as all hell.

Jesus christ there won't be massive cuts. There will be a 1.5% cut in government spending. THAT'S IT.

Sadly on average most american families are looking at around 2500$ in taxes a year. My household is looking at around 350$ a month in additional taxes, which sucks, a lot. That's groceries for us thanks to mortgage, student loans, and car loan.

What "average" is this based in?

Link

I misremembered, it's 3500, not 2500. So my household is looking at an additional ~7000$ in a taxes a year.

pay up.  part of the social contract.  if you earn that much money, you should be happy to pay your fair share.

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

My household makes less with similar bills. We have more than $200 in disposable income each month. You're doing it wrong if you are unable to get by on 130k+ annually.

Oh yeah, oil heat costs around 600$ every 6 weeks, so that's another bill. 240 a month for groceries (60 a week).

You're right, I shoul ...


Monthly takehome: 5219
Bills (her car insurance, my car insurance, medication, cable (needed for telecommuting for work from home office), power, water, oil, dog food, trash, gas): $1854
Mortgage: $1450
Student loans: $757
Car loan: $270
Money to emergency fund: $80
Money towards wedding: $100
Allowance for spending: $280
Groceries: $240
Money left over: ~$190

There you go. My finances. I have nothing to hide.
 
2012-12-31 06:54:20 PM

skullkrusher: much more of a "shiatload" but as far as our tax system is concerned, exactly the same


So? You want Federal income taxes to be based on where you live or something?
 
2012-12-31 06:55:49 PM

chuggernaught: KungFuJunkie: scubamage: Uranus Is Huge!: scubamage: tenpoundsofcheese: scubamage: jayphat: scubamage: jayphat: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.

how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?

Lots of people proposed lots of things. It didn't happen. Now we increase taxes and reduce spending. How could this not reduce the debt?

where is the reduced spending in this deal?

There is no deal. Sequester must take effect. That's what the deal was supposed to avoid.

Stand by for massive cuts all across the government. It should be entertaining as all hell.

Jesus christ there won't be massive cuts. There will be a 1.5% cut in government spending. THAT'S IT.

Sadly on average most american families are looking at around 2500$ in taxes a year. My household is looking at around 350$ a month in additional taxes, which sucks, a lot. That's groceries for us thanks to mortgage, student loans, and car loan.

What "average" is this based in?

Link

I misremembered, it's 3500, not 2500. So my household is looking at an additional ~7000$ in a taxes a year.

pay up.  part of the social contract.  if you earn that much money, you should be happy to pay your fair share.

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

My household makes less with similar bills. We have more than $200 in disposable income each month. You're doing it wrong if you are unable to get by on 130k+ annually.

Oh yeah, oil heat costs around 600$ every 6 weeks, so that's another bill. 240 a month for groceries (60 a week).

I couldn't stand it anymore and called my friend in retirement planning. The math was driving me up a wall. We went over the numbers that are available. Her conclusion was either a) He's lying about income; or b) He's a troll.
We just can't figure where thousands of dollars are going every month for this guy. Does he or his significant other have series gambling problems, or hobbies that are money sinks? Even factoring in a wedding doesn't account for the losses unless their having a $40K wedding once a month.
Looked at my own finances by comparison and determined I must be doing something right.


No kidding. It kinda stuck out at me when his stated biweekly takehome is the same as mine, and I make 36k a year. And live comfortably. Either there's some massive missing expenses or he's full of crap. Or both.
 
2012-12-31 06:56:21 PM

KungFuJunkie: scubamage: Uranus Is Huge!: scubamage: tenpoundsofcheese: scubamage: jayphat: scubamage: jayphat: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.

how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?

Lots of people proposed lots of things. It didn't happen. Now we increase taxes and reduce spending. How could this not reduce the debt?

where is the reduced spending in this deal?

There is no deal. Sequester must take effect. That's what the deal was supposed to avoid.

Stand by for massive cuts all across the government. It should be entertaining as all hell.

Jesus christ there won't be massive cuts. There will be a 1.5% cut in government spending. THAT'S IT.

Sadly on average most american families are looking at around 2500$ in taxes a year. My household is looking at around 350$ a month in additional taxes, which sucks, a lot. That's groceries for us thanks to mortgage, student loans, and car loan.

What "average" is this based in?

Link

I misremembered, it's 3500, not 2500. So my household is looking at an additional ~7000$ in a taxes a year.

pay up.  part of the social contract.  if you earn that much money, you should be happy to pay your fair share.

That's great. Except right now my fiance earns around 61000, I earn around 70000. Between mortgage (1450/mo), student loans (~800/mo), furnace payment (350), car loan (270), and monthly bills we had around 200$ extra a month. This change could quite honestly cost us our house. I'm fine with higher taxes, just give me some time to adjust instead of jacking our taxes up overnight.

My household makes less with similar bills. We have more than $200 in disposable income each month. You're doing it wrong if you are unable to get by on 130k+ annually.

Oh yeah, oil heat costs around 600$ every 6 weeks, so that's another bill. 240 a month for groceries (60 a week).

You're right, I shoul ...


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