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(NewsChannel 5 Nashville) NewsFlash Obama says fiscal cliff deal is "emerging." OK HOPE IS COMING OUT   (newschannel5.com ) divider line 993
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2012-12-31 05:20:43 PM  

thenewmissus: I didn't know that they had come to an agreement regarding SS.


No agreement, no vote.
Republicans win....or something. I'm sure they think it's winning....somehow.
 
2012-12-31 05:21:24 PM  
Get some Marines from around the Commandant's barracks in DC. Put them at the chamber doors of the House of Representatives, armed. No one leaves until a bill is crafted and handed to the Senate and President's desk.
 
2012-12-31 05:21:44 PM  

Wangiss: Uranus Is Huge!: Wangiss: unlikely: Wangiss: I'm definitely not a spoiled prick

The "Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow" nature of your arguments suggests otherwise.

"Entitled" is when you demand the sweat of another man's brow. I pay my taxes. I'd gladly pay a higher rate to my state if it asked. The federal government should diminish. They're the ones blowing up people.

You're thinking of 'self-entitled.'

You sound Randian.

I've never read Rand. Any work in particular you recommend?


No. Unless you're an insomniac sociopath.
 
2012-12-31 05:22:08 PM  
Months ago it was mentioned that the Republicans might stall on this until 2013 so after tax rates were jacked up, they could pass tax cuts and not violate Grover's precious f--king pledge.

I was really hoping public pressure (and thank God people seem to know exactly which party is being total jackasses in this process) would make that not happen, but at the same time the idea sounded so gloriously stupid I could see it happening.

Dammit.

This is really, really pathetic. My douchebag state legislature already passed laws that are going to give a crap ton of money to the rich and take more from working families, but at least they did so less blatantly obviously. Smart for them, sucks for the rest of us - I try to pay attention as best I can and I didn't even realize the scope of it until my State Rep came to my workplace and went over all the crap he had unsuccessfully fought against in the past year. Just amazing.
 
2012-12-31 05:22:10 PM  

cretinbob: [i2.cdn.turner.com image 640x360]
"Hey America, go fark yourself"


To be completely fair, it's not directly boehner's fault. He simply can't get the GOP to agree to a deal.

Which isn't surprising at all. If you spend 4+ years painting a man and a Party as Communistic and anti-American, you can't simply turn around and make deals with them. The true-blue die-hard believers among your party simply won't go along with it, especially over something as visceral as tax rates.

In short, they went full retard for 4+ years and not even Boehner can turn it off now.
 
2012-12-31 05:22:43 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: Wangiss: Uranus Is Huge!: Wangiss: unlikely: Wangiss: I'm definitely not a spoiled prick

The "Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow" nature of your arguments suggests otherwise.

"Entitled" is when you demand the sweat of another man's brow. I pay my taxes. I'd gladly pay a higher rate to my state if it asked. The federal government should diminish. They're the ones blowing up people.

You're thinking of 'self-entitled.'

You sound Randian.

I've never read Rand. Any work in particular you recommend?

No. Unless you're an insomniac sociopath.


LOL, I heard it's more long-winded than Tolkien, and much more self-indulgent.
 
2012-12-31 05:23:37 PM  
The House just announced there will be no vote today. Over we go.
 
2012-12-31 05:24:05 PM  

Marine1: Get some Marines from around the Commandant's barracks in DC. Put them at the chamber doors of the House of Representatives, armed. No one leaves until a bill is crafted and handed to the Senate and President's desk.


While that really sounds appealing, I'd rather not give any Obama Will Enact Martial Law Conspiracy Theorists figurative ammunition.  They literally have enough as it is.
 
2012-12-31 05:24:26 PM  

make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.


how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?
 
2012-12-31 05:24:38 PM  
The GOP is either full of ethically bankrupt traitors, or they are irresponsible children who shouldn't be anywhere near the reins of power.
 
2012-12-31 05:25:11 PM  

Infernalist: To be completely fair, it's not directly boehner's fault.


When he entered the "mano a mano" talks with The President, he did indeed take that responsibility.
I agree it's not his fault, but he owns the responsibility.
The Teabaggers who have stated over and over they want to destroy America, just in fancy terms making it sound good, are the ones to blame.
Did anyone Godwin the thread yet, because you know......
 
2012-12-31 05:25:22 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Marine1: Get some Marines from around the Commandant's barracks in DC. Put them at the chamber doors of the House of Representatives, armed. No one leaves until a bill is crafted and handed to the Senate and President's desk.

While that really sounds appealing, I'd rather not give any Obama Will Enact Martial Law Conspiracy Theorists figurative ammunition.  They literally have enough as it is.


If you operate on the premise of not giving those people ammunition, there's going to be a lot you won't accomplish.
 
2012-12-31 05:25:25 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Months ago it was mentioned that the Republicans might stall on this until 2013 so after tax rates were jacked up, they could pass tax cuts and not violate Grover's precious f--king pledge.

I was really hoping public pressure (and thank God people seem to know exactly which party is being total jackasses in this process) would make that not happen, but at the same time the idea sounded so gloriously stupid I could see it happening.

Dammit.

This is really, really pathetic. My douchebag state legislature already passed laws that are going to give a crap ton of money to the rich and take more from working families, but at least they did so less blatantly obviously. Smart for them, sucks for the rest of us - I try to pay attention as best I can and I didn't even realize the scope of it until my State Rep came to my workplace and went over all the crap he had unsuccessfully fought against in the past year. Just amazing.


You should consider moving to a better state. I am.

On topic, the GOP can 'try' to pass bills that'll cut taxes on the super-rich, but it has to get pass the Senate and even then, Obama will just veto it.

The Democrats will pass a bill cutting taxes on households making under 250k and dare the GOP to block it or vote it down.

See, the hardest part(eliminating the Bush Era Tax Cuts) is done. Or almost done. In roughly 7 hours, they'll all be history, and getting them back will be nigh-on impossible and they know it.
 
2012-12-31 05:25:29 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?


So, in THIS thread you know the difference between the debt and the deficit?
 
2012-12-31 05:26:01 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Marine1: Get some Marines from around the Commandant's barracks in DC. Put them at the chamber doors of the House of Representatives, armed. No one leaves until a bill is crafted and handed to the Senate and President's desk.

While that really sounds appealing, I'd rather not give any Obama Will Enact Martial Law Conspiracy Theorists figurative ammunition.  They literally have enough as it is.


I think that Obama has been pulling his punches hoping for a deal up until this point. Now we are going to get to see how far he can stretch an executive order I suppose. The House can try to override it if they want to.
 
2012-12-31 05:26:23 PM  

cretinbob: The Teabaggers who have stated over and over they want to destroy America, just in fancy terms making it sound good,


citation or are you just a nut?
 
2012-12-31 05:26:32 PM  

lexslamman: The GOP D.C. is either full of ethically bankrupt traitors, or they are irresponsible children who shouldn't be anywhere near the reins of power.


Srsly.
 
2012-12-31 05:26:39 PM  

Uranus Is Huge!: You sound Randian.


files.dailycontributor.com
 
2012-12-31 05:27:12 PM  

bartink: The House just announced there will be no vote today. Over we go.


thatschurch.com
 
2012-12-31 05:27:29 PM  

cretinbob: Infernalist: To be completely fair, it's not directly boehner's fault.

When he entered the "mano a mano" talks with The President, he did indeed take that responsibility.
I agree it's not his fault, but he owns the responsibility.
The Teabaggers who have stated over and over they want to destroy America, just in fancy terms making it sound good, are the ones to blame.
Did anyone Godwin the thread yet, because you know......


You know who else wanted to cap centralized power?

No, I'm sorry, it just doesn't work.
 
2012-12-31 05:28:59 PM  

KarmicDisaster: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Marine1: Get some Marines from around the Commandant's barracks in DC. Put them at the chamber doors of the House of Representatives, armed. No one leaves until a bill is crafted and handed to the Senate and President's desk.

While that really sounds appealing, I'd rather not give any Obama Will Enact Martial Law Conspiracy Theorists figurative ammunition.  They literally have enough as it is.

I think that Obama has been pulling his punches hoping for a deal up until this point. Now we are going to get to see how far he can stretch an executive order I suppose. The House can try to override it if they want to.


Quartering troops in the 1%'s mansions would be an amusing move.
 
2012-12-31 05:29:46 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: rohar: Wangiss: I'm definitely not a spoiled prick. I'm middle class; I work 40 hours a week.

So part time huh?

When you've got employees in 7 countries and systems that never shut down, come wine to me. Until then STFU you self entitled prick.

Delegation.
cf. Micromanagement.


Free advice: If you want to remain in business live, don't expand your business.


Why do you think I'm putting in so many hours? 100% increase in revenues year over year is a bit of a stress. It'll back off shortly.

As a side note, through my work I help to bring over $100k in revenues to the U.S. from overseas, the majority of those revenues go to pay the salaries of the majority of our employees in the Seattle area and are taxed at both the state and federal level creating jobs. You know, the things that the right is busy fighting against.
 
2012-12-31 05:29:58 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Marine1: Get some Marines from around the Commandant's barracks in DC. Put them at the chamber doors of the House of Representatives, armed. No one leaves until a bill is crafted and handed to the Senate and President's desk.

While that really sounds appealing, I'd rather not give any Obama Will Enact Martial Law Conspiracy Theorists figurative ammunition.  They literally have enough as it is.


Once we have armed guards at every school, then in every public space, it will be easier for Obama to declare himself president for life.
 
2012-12-31 05:30:00 PM  

TheOther: KarmicDisaster: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Marine1: Get some Marines from around the Commandant's barracks in DC. Put them at the chamber doors of the House of Representatives, armed. No one leaves until a bill is crafted and handed to the Senate and President's desk.

While that really sounds appealing, I'd rather not give any Obama Will Enact Martial Law Conspiracy Theorists figurative ammunition.  They literally have enough as it is.

I think that Obama has been pulling his punches hoping for a deal up until this point. Now we are going to get to see how far he can stretch an executive order I suppose. The House can try to override it if they want to.

Quartering troops in the 1%'s mansions would be an amusing move.


Plus going through their papers.
 
2012-12-31 05:30:02 PM  

TheOther: KarmicDisaster: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Marine1: Get some Marines from around the Commandant's barracks in DC. Put them at the chamber doors of the House of Representatives, armed. No one leaves until a bill is crafted and handed to the Senate and President's desk.

While that really sounds appealing, I'd rather not give any Obama Will Enact Martial Law Conspiracy Theorists figurative ammunition.  They literally have enough as it is.

I think that Obama has been pulling his punches hoping for a deal up until this point. Now we are going to get to see how far he can stretch an executive order I suppose. The House can try to override it if they want to.

Quartering troops in the 1%'s mansions would be an amusing move.


3rd Amendment solutions?
 
2012-12-31 05:30:17 PM  

cretinbob: Infernalist: To be completely fair, it's not directly boehner's fault.

When he entered the "mano a mano" talks with The President, he did indeed take that responsibility.
I agree it's not his fault, but he owns the responsibility.
The Teabaggers who have stated over and over they want to destroy America, just in fancy terms making it sound good, are the ones to blame.
Did anyone Godwin the thread yet, because you know......


I will agree that the whole mess belongs solely in the GOP's lap, but the Tea Derper monster got of its leash shortly after the November Elections when the Establishment GOP beat the Tea Derpers up and took away their committee seats and chairmanships in a rage. They're the ones directly behind this failure to make a deal and they simply do not grasp, cannot grasp, that this is playing completely and utterly into the hands of the President and the Democrats.

They're so full of rage and fury that they'll cut their nose off to spite their face. They won't make a deal. They just won't. And how is the GOP supposed to whip them in line? The Tea Derpers back home won't get mad at them for their refusal to play along. They'll get cheered when they go home to the local yokels. The GOP has NO hold over these retards.
 
2012-12-31 05:30:26 PM  

Thunderpipes: No reason to raise taxes on the rich, none. Makes no dent.

But.... gets Obama and Democrats tons of votes, because their worshipers are stupid, vengeful people.

All this is about, votes. More and more idiots vote Democrat, and they breed faster, means liberal politicians stay rich.


Awwww, have a tissue. On me!
 
2012-12-31 05:30:48 PM  

Relatively Obscure: This thread is goddamn bonkers.

image.become.com

 
2012-12-31 05:30:50 PM  

rohar: demaL-demaL-yeH: rohar: Wangiss: I'm definitely not a spoiled prick. I'm middle class; I work 40 hours a week.

So part time huh?

When you've got employees in 7 countries and systems that never shut down, come wine to me. Until then STFU you self entitled prick.

Delegation.
cf. Micromanagement.


Free advice: If you want to remain in business live, don't expand your business.

Why do you think I'm putting in so many hours? 100% increase in revenues year over year is a bit of a stress. It'll back off shortly.

As a side note, through my work I help to bring over $100k in revenues to the U.S. from overseas, the majority of those revenues go to pay the salaries of the majority of our employees in the Seattle area and are taxed at both the state and federal level creating jobs. You know, the things that the right is busy fighting against.


If there's one thing the right hates, it's entrepreneurship.
 
2012-12-31 05:30:53 PM  

thenewmissus: rohar: thenewmissus: TofuTheAlmighty: A deal that doesn't obviate the debt limit, gains a pathetic $800 billion in revenue, and takes an axe to Social Security (which is practically irrelevant to the deficit).

Obama is the worst poker player alive.

I hate to admit it, but I agree with you. I would have rather seen us go off the cliff and come back with DOD cuts and some Medicare cuts and tax rate increase. I voted for Obama bit I was hoping he would be tougher in negotiations. Republicans would get the blame for it anyway so why compromise on key issues like SS?

/IMHO

Ok, I'll bite. What is currently in the works that would affect SS? The republicans in the senate ceded that change late last night. It was off the table. Something change in the past hour?

Sorry for the late catch up. My husband had a doctor appt (at VA hospital 50+ miles away). I didn't know that they had come to an agreement regarding SS.


Wasn't so much an agreement, the GOP got put in it's place. It was kinda fun to watch.
 
2012-12-31 05:32:23 PM  
BTW, if you feel like doing some yelling at clouds, the House of Representatives directory is here. Give 'em hell!
 
2012-12-31 05:32:32 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.

how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?


Lots of people proposed lots of things. It didn't happen. Now we increase taxes and reduce spending. How could this not reduce the debt?
 
2012-12-31 05:32:42 PM  

Infernalist: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Months ago it was mentioned that the Republicans might stall on this until 2013 so after tax rates were jacked up, they could pass tax cuts and not violate Grover's precious f--king pledge.

I was really hoping public pressure (and thank God people seem to know exactly which party is being total jackasses in this process) would make that not happen, but at the same time the idea sounded so gloriously stupid I could see it happening.

Dammit.

This is really, really pathetic. My douchebag state legislature already passed laws that are going to give a crap ton of money to the rich and take more from working families, but at least they did so less blatantly obviously. Smart for them, sucks for the rest of us - I try to pay attention as best I can and I didn't even realize the scope of it until my State Rep came to my workplace and went over all the crap he had unsuccessfully fought against in the past year. Just amazing.

You should consider moving to a better state. I am.

On topic, the GOP can 'try' to pass bills that'll cut taxes on the super-rich, but it has to get pass the Senate and even then, Obama will just veto it.

The Democrats will pass a bill cutting taxes on households making under 250k and dare the GOP to block it or vote it down.

See, the hardest part(eliminating the Bush Era Tax Cuts) is done. Or almost done. In roughly 7 hours, they'll all be history, and getting them back will be nigh-on impossible and they know it.


I love it here, I really do.  I'm going to fight the good fight for a bit longer.  I would honestly consider throwing in the towel if the SO didn't just get a full time job at a great company.  Not making much but they're ridiculously awesome with their employees.  He's had a temp job there and got the full time gig on sheer merit, and his managers advocating for him.

We'll see in a year.  Both of us would have enough experience with our current jobs to start shopping around at that point, I think.

It would break my heart but seriously considering it...
 
2012-12-31 05:33:30 PM  

rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.

how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?

Lots of people proposed lots of things. It didn't happen. Now we increase taxes and reduce spending. How could this not reduce the debt?


Socialism
 
2012-12-31 05:33:44 PM  
The republicans got exactly what they wanted - tax hikes for everyone. Now they can come in after the new year and vote for a tax cut on the lower/middle class, and they can honestly say they never once voted for a tax increase. Sadly, there are a lot of HR and tax folks who are going to go all head-explodey with the tax implications of this little game.
 
2012-12-31 05:34:28 PM  

Wangiss: rohar: demaL-demaL-yeH: rohar: Wangiss: I'm definitely not a spoiled prick. I'm middle class; I work 40 hours a week.

So part time huh?

When you've got employees in 7 countries and systems that never shut down, come wine to me. Until then STFU you self entitled prick.

Delegation.
cf. Micromanagement.


Free advice: If you want to remain in business live, don't expand your business.

Why do you think I'm putting in so many hours? 100% increase in revenues year over year is a bit of a stress. It'll back off shortly.

As a side note, through my work I help to bring over $100k in revenues to the U.S. from overseas, the majority of those revenues go to pay the salaries of the majority of our employees in the Seattle area and are taxed at both the state and federal level creating jobs. You know, the things that the right is busy fighting against.

If there's one thing the right hates, it's entrepreneurship.


And love lethargia. Welfare for us, just not "them" amiright?
 
2012-12-31 05:34:41 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.

how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?


Please tell me the original guy is trolling.
 
2012-12-31 05:35:03 PM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: Infernalist: StreetlightInTheGhetto: Months ago it was mentioned that the Republicans might stall on this until 2013 so after tax rates were jacked up, they could pass tax cuts and not violate Grover's precious f--king pledge.

I was really hoping public pressure (and thank God people seem to know exactly which party is being total jackasses in this process) would make that not happen, but at the same time the idea sounded so gloriously stupid I could see it happening.

Dammit.

This is really, really pathetic. My douchebag state legislature already passed laws that are going to give a crap ton of money to the rich and take more from working families, but at least they did so less blatantly obviously. Smart for them, sucks for the rest of us - I try to pay attention as best I can and I didn't even realize the scope of it until my State Rep came to my workplace and went over all the crap he had unsuccessfully fought against in the past year. Just amazing.

You should consider moving to a better state. I am.

On topic, the GOP can 'try' to pass bills that'll cut taxes on the super-rich, but it has to get pass the Senate and even then, Obama will just veto it.

The Democrats will pass a bill cutting taxes on households making under 250k and dare the GOP to block it or vote it down.

See, the hardest part(eliminating the Bush Era Tax Cuts) is done. Or almost done. In roughly 7 hours, they'll all be history, and getting them back will be nigh-on impossible and they know it.

I love it here, I really do.  I'm going to fight the good fight for a bit longer.  I would honestly consider throwing in the towel if the SO didn't just get a full time job at a great company.  Not making much but they're ridiculously awesome with their employees.  He's had a temp job there and got the full time gig on sheer merit, and his managers advocating for him.

We'll see in a year.  Both of us would have enough experience with our current jobs to start shopping around at that point, I think.
...


Way to be awesome.
 
2012-12-31 05:35:09 PM  

Relatively Obscure: This thread is goddamn bonkers.


Political topics put on the main page never end well.
 
2012-12-31 05:35:18 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: cretinbob: The Teabaggers who have stated over and over they want to destroy America, just in fancy terms making it sound good,

citation or are you just a nut?


Have you not been listening to them?
That whole "get rid of the government" thing is pretty much what they said at every rally.
There is a disconnect between what they have written down, and the words that come out of their mouths. I think it's due in large part that they have also been hijacked by a few people who want power and attention, yet lack basic education or powers of deduction. They in turn look to people who have less education and critical thinking skills to lead around by the nose.
Thankfully their numbers are small.

0.tqn.com
 
2012-12-31 05:35:18 PM  
So, what gets cut under this shiat bomb that's gonna explode at midnight?

How will the taxes be implemented?
 
2012-12-31 05:36:00 PM  

rohar: Wangiss: rohar: demaL-demaL-yeH: rohar: Wangiss: I'm definitely not a spoiled prick. I'm middle class; I work 40 hours a week.

So part time huh?

When you've got employees in 7 countries and systems that never shut down, come wine to me. Until then STFU you self entitled prick.

Delegation.
cf. Micromanagement.


Free advice: If you want to remain in business live, don't expand your business.

Why do you think I'm putting in so many hours? 100% increase in revenues year over year is a bit of a stress. It'll back off shortly.

As a side note, through my work I help to bring over $100k in revenues to the U.S. from overseas, the majority of those revenues go to pay the salaries of the majority of our employees in the Seattle area and are taxed at both the state and federal level creating jobs. You know, the things that the right is busy fighting against.

If there's one thing the right hates, it's entrepreneurship.

And love lethargia. Welfare for us, just not "them" amiright?


Yes, politicians will gladly take our money. They love doing that.
 
2012-12-31 05:36:14 PM  

scubamage: The republicans got exactly what they wanted - tax hikes for everyone. Now they can come in after the new year and vote for a tax cut on the lower/middle class, and they can honestly say they never once voted for a tax increase. Sadly, there are a lot of HR and tax folks who are going to go all head-explodey with the tax implications of this little game.


Yeah, but they'll have to do it with many fewer republican seats in both houses. I'm not sure they thought their little plan through.
 
2012-12-31 05:36:35 PM  
coolimagehost.net
THE BONING CONTINUES!
 
2012-12-31 05:37:07 PM  

Wangiss:

As a side note, through my work I help to bring over $100k in revenues to the U.S. from overseas, the majority of those revenues go to pay the salaries of the majority of our employees in the Seattle area and are taxed at both the state and federal level creating jobs. You know, the things that the right is busy fighting against.

If there's one thing the right hates, it's entrepreneurship.

And love lethargia. Welfare for us, just not "them" amiright?

Yes, politicians will gladly take our money. They love doing that.


Wait, I think I seriously misinterpreted your post. What did you mean?
 
2012-12-31 05:37:10 PM  
i.imgur.com

/RON PAUL!1!!1!!eleventy!1!

/fiscal cliffs aren't in the Constitution
 
2012-12-31 05:37:57 PM  

rohar: tenpoundsofcheese: make me some tea: Well, it's more of a downward slope than a cliff, anyway.

At least we'll starting whittling down this debt.

how's that since 0bama has proposed more spending?

Lots of people proposed lots of things. It didn't happen. Now we increase taxes and reduce spending. How could this not reduce the debt?




An uppity blah democrat is in the whitehouse.

Duh.
 
2012-12-31 05:38:07 PM  

Marine1: How will the taxes be implemented?


It's wikipedia, but ...
 
2012-12-31 05:38:32 PM  
What in the fark is everyone worried about? Seriously.

Let me lop some zeros off the federal numbers and let you:

Federal Revenue: $21,700
Federal Spending: $38,200
Current Federal Debt: $142,710
All this "cliff" that everyone is talking about will result in these amount of cuts: $385

What a farking big media ploy to get you all worked up.
 
2012-12-31 05:38:35 PM  

Wangiss: rohar: Wangiss: rohar: demaL-demaL-yeH: rohar: Wangiss: I'm definitely not a spoiled prick. I'm middle class; I work 40 hours a week.

So part time huh?

When you've got employees in 7 countries and systems that never shut down, come wine to me. Until then STFU you self entitled prick.

Delegation.
cf. Micromanagement.


Free advice: If you want to remain in business live, don't expand your business.

Why do you think I'm putting in so many hours? 100% increase in revenues year over year is a bit of a stress. It'll back off shortly.

As a side note, through my work I help to bring over $100k in revenues to the U.S. from overseas, the majority of those revenues go to pay the salaries of the majority of our employees in the Seattle area and are taxed at both the state and federal level creating jobs. You know, the things that the right is busy fighting against.

If there's one thing the right hates, it's entrepreneurship.

And love lethargia. Welfare for us, just not "them" amiright?

Yes, politicians will gladly take our money. They love doing that.


...and farmers, boeing employees, haliburton and any number of other right wing groups that don't produce usefull products.
 
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