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(NewsChannel 5 Nashville) NewsFlash Obama says fiscal cliff deal is "emerging." OK HOPE IS COMING OUT   (newschannel5.com) divider line 993
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4946 clicks; posted to Main » on 31 Dec 2012 at 2:28 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-12-31 03:34:49 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: Somacandra: Uranus Is Huge!: Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo. Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.

[i.imgur.com image 191x300]

I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.

Okay, fine. ...modern conservative thought.

Progress ALWAYS wins! Suck it and enjoy your New Year.


I'd go with "popular modern conservative thought."

And I also wish a Sucky New Year to Fark!!
 
2012-12-31 03:35:07 PM
If this includes tax increases on a certain income bracket, then I am not on board.

I hope the House rejects this measure.
 
2012-12-31 03:35:19 PM

Bontesla: Dear America: Here are your new tax rates

Business Insider updating as details of the plan emerge


That's a shiat deal.  Pretty much what was expected.
 
2012-12-31 03:36:08 PM
Jake Sherman @JakeSherman

House Republican conference meeting coming up. Not to talk about McConnell/Biden, but Sandy relief and other pending measures.
 
2012-12-31 03:36:14 PM

incendi: david_gaithersburg: I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!

And yet somehow believe that there aren't any houses cheaper than $350k in Montgomery.


That part is probably mostly true. Go on a site like Redfin.com and search for available houses in Montgomery. I'd wager you won't find much for less than 350k, particularly if you want 3bedrooms or more. But then 350k should be readily affordable to someone making even half the 250k mentioned.
 
2012-12-31 03:36:21 PM
hope no one knocks on the door and makes it go back in...

Link
 
2012-12-31 03:36:42 PM
Drinking a bottle of ex-lax should do the trick. Regardless of what they come up with it is guaranteed to be shyte.
 
2012-12-31 03:36:48 PM
Such a surprise. Our fearless leaders put aside their differences at the 11th hour and saved the day. Who would have ever seen this coming?
 
2012-12-31 03:36:58 PM

ChipNASA: Oh and the Pres and Congress just voted themselves a PAY RAISE!!!
And then we all have to pay for THAT
/ explain the justice in that!!!!


Wow, you aren't bright at all. They dropped a mandate that has prevented *all federal* pay raises since 2010. Federal employees are getting 0.5%, and congress pay raises are maxed out at the same level. If my job had only given 0.5% in the past 3 years I would have quit.
 
2012-12-31 03:37:02 PM

Somacandra: I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.


The Pseudo-Conservative Revolt

There is, however, a dynamic of dissent in America today. Representing no more than a modest fraction of the electorate, it is not so powerful as the liberal dissent of the New Deal era, but it is powerful enough to set the tone of our political life and to establish throughout the country a kind of punitive reaction. The new dissent is certainly not radical - there are hardly any radicals of any sort left - nor is it precisely conservative. Unlike most of the liberal dissent of the past, the new dissent not only has no respect for non-conformism, but is based upon a relentless demand for conformity. It can most accurately be called pseudo-conservative - I borrow the term from the study of The Authoritarian Personality published five years ago by Theodore W. Adorno and his associates - because its exponents, although they believe themselves to be conservatives and usually employ the rhetoric of conservatism, show signs of a serious and restless dissatisfaction with American life, traditions and institutions. They have little in common with the temperate and compromising spirit of true conservatism in the classical sense of the word, and they are far from pleased with the dominant practical conservatism of the moment as it is represented by the Eisenhower Administration. Their political reactions express rather a profound if largely unconscious hatred of our society and its ways - a hatred which one would hesitate to impute to them if one did not have suggestive clinical evidence.
 
2012-12-31 03:37:10 PM

kitsuneymg: Leaving puzzled.


i.imgur.com

Possibly because the first and last frame contain filter evasions of NSFW language?
/farksafe version
 
2012-12-31 03:37:28 PM

wombatsrus: Well, every time there is serious talk about cutting military spending, the only cry I hear is "so many jobs will be lost!" and little or nothing else about any other reason. For example, I haven't anything about how the "fiscal cliff" will impact defending ourselves, but all about how defense contractors will have to fire folks due to projects being cancelled.


Yet whenever someone proposes spending public funds to upgrade crumbling bridges and other infrastructure which incidentally puts people to work, those same people are against it.

Evidently defense dollars are manly dollars, or something.
 
2012-12-31 03:37:35 PM

Funk Brothers: tax rises should hurt the poor more than the wealthy



FTFY
 
2012-12-31 03:37:37 PM

Kuroshin: Bontesla: Dear America: Here are your new tax rates

Business Insider updating as details of the plan emerge

That's a shiat deal.  Pretty much what was expected.


Well, and as far as I can tell, the Republicans are pushing to vote on the tax relief portion now and handle the tax increase vote later. So, it doesn't even sound like the Republicans are in agreement on the "deal" that's being drafted.
 
2012-12-31 03:37:43 PM

kitsuneymg: Came for this
[art.penny-arcade.com image 800x401]

Leaving puzzled.


It was linked above with a nsfw tag
 
2012-12-31 03:37:51 PM

Bontesla: Dear America: Here are your new tax rates

Business Insider updating as details of the plan emerge


good that they are finally rolling back that payroll tax decrease.
Good job 0bama.
 
2012-12-31 03:38:11 PM

Somacandra: Uranus Is Huge!: Conservative thinking, by definition, rejects new ideas in faor of the status quo. Basically, conservative thought is largely composed of fondly reminiscing about when gas cost a quarter and darkies knew their place.

[i.imgur.com image 191x300]

I wouldn't call myself a Conservative, but that's a pretty serious strawman. You can't take Mitch McConnell  to represent Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke or Irving Babbitt any more than you can take Bill Clinton to represent John Rawls. The conservative intellectual tradition, inter alia,  harbors a necessary skepticism to the progressive perfectability of humanity often envisioned by liberals.


Not quite, you're thinking of reactionary thinking. It's an "extreme" of conservatism.
 
2012-12-31 03:38:20 PM
Also Somacandra, I feel like I was unnecessarily snarky. I have you favorited in Reasonable Cyan 4, not Potato Farm Red 4.

Happy Holidays!
 
2012-12-31 03:38:37 PM

Knight of the Woeful Countenance: Help me out with this, cause I think I'm not understand the system right now... but, even if the Senate passes a bill, how the hell is Boehner gonna pass tax increases on 450k+ when he couldn't do it at a million last week? Am I missing some procedure or something?


What you're missing is that Obama just got everyone's hopes up and if things don't go through, it's going to be Boehner on the podium giving everyone the bad news, totally and completely associating his face with failure and disappointment.
 
2012-12-31 03:38:43 PM

MaestroQuark: ChipNASA: Oh and the Pres and Congress just voted themselves a PAY RAISE!!!
And then we all have to pay for THAT
/ explain the justice in that!!!!


Wow, you aren't bright at all. They dropped a mandate that has prevented *all federal* pay raises since 2010. Federal employees are getting 0.5%, and congress pay raises are maxed out at the same level. If my job had only given 0.5% in the past 3 years I would have quit.


Do you spihon $170,000 or more on threat of incarceration? How can I get a job like that?
 
2012-12-31 03:38:52 PM
Some of you folks don't recognize posturing when you see it.

Obama knows that the House Republicans aren't going to come together. This is a false hope that's being dangled out there in order to give Americans the image of him being hopeful and conciliatory, rather than antagonistic and resigned to going over the cliff.

This will keep the blame deflected to Republicans, and also give him a great base upon which to launch next year's Obama Tax Cut for 98% of Americans, which Republicans will find ruination upon no matter what they do.
 
2012-12-31 03:39:09 PM

Bontesla: Kuroshin: Bontesla: Dear America: Here are your new tax rates

Business Insider updating as details of the plan emerge

That's a shiat deal.  Pretty much what was expected.

Well, and as far as I can tell, the Republicans are pushing to vote on the tax relief portion now and handle the tax increase vote later. So, it doesn't even sound like the Republicans are in agreement on the "deal" that's being drafted.


Idiots.
 
2012-12-31 03:39:20 PM
Please close Pandroa's box. We don't want hope to come out. Or anything else to come out of her box.
 
2012-12-31 03:39:33 PM

ChipNASA: "Obama is the GREATEST!!!"
[files.abovetopsecret.com image 224x163]


Now that is effing funny!
 
2012-12-31 03:39:55 PM

MaestroQuark: ChipNASA: Oh and the Pres and Congress just voted themselves a PAY RAISE!!!
And then we all have to pay for THAT
/ explain the justice in that!!!!


Wow, you aren't bright at all. They dropped a mandate that has prevented *all federal* pay raises since 2010. Federal employees are getting 0.5%, and congress pay raises are maxed out at the same level. If my job had only given 0.5% in the past 3 years I would have quit.


If you had a 13% approval rating of the people who gave you your job you would have been fired before you had a chance to quit.
They should get a pay decrease.
 
2012-12-31 03:40:36 PM

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


That is not "moderately" by any quantitative definition. Perhaps you should look at the basic average incomes of families in the USA to get some perspective on how wealthy you are.
 
2012-12-31 03:40:43 PM

david_gaithersburg: coeyagi: shower_in_my_socks: david_gaithersburg: The cheapest house in MoCo is $350K, and that's for a tear down. So yeah, $250K is low.


And the cheapest house on Carbon Beach in Malibu is $10M. Won't somebody please think of the "lower middle-class" millionaires living on Carbon Beach? It's a stupid argument. $250k/year is a shiatload of money. I live better than most people I know, in an expensive city, and I make less than half that.

I am not entirely sure why we keep engaging this guy. His math is pretty indicative of the brainfarts of a mongoloid. Because your average mongoloid thinks that the DC region should be the litmus test for tax rates.

.
I love fark. Yeah my math sucks. I retired at 42, came out of retirement to lead the finical workings of an global company. They wanted me because my math sucks. LOL!


Well, it certainly wasn't your spelling... LOL
 
2012-12-31 03:40:55 PM

HuffPost's Sam Stein and Arthur Delaney


One of the remaining sticking points holding up a fiscal cliff deal appears to have been resolved, as negotiators have decided to extend unemployment benefits without offsetting the cost.
A source familiar with negotiations told The Huffington Post that lawmakers would treat the provision as "an emergency measure that shouldn't be paid for." A Senate Democratic and Republican source each confirmed the plan.
What that means is that the $30 billion pricetag for a year-long extension will simply be added to the deficit. Republicans have in the past objected to reauthorizing federal unemployment compensation because of its impact on the deficit, though in recessions since World War II Congress has generally added extra weeks of benefits without paying for them.
 
2012-12-31 03:41:03 PM
Describing the expiration of "temporary" tax cuts that were always designed to expire as a "fiscal cliff" tells you everything you need to know about this.

This is yet another manufactured "crisis" that allows them to do something they know you don't want at the last second so you don't have enough time to form an angry mob before it's a done deal.

The bipartisan Simpson -Boyles plan has always called for killing the tax cuts for the middle class, screwing over social safety net programs, and using the money saved to lower the taxes on the rich and their corporations.

Count me among those who always believed that President Obama made a big mistake when he created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform - a supposedly bipartisan panel charged with coming up with solutions to the nation's long-run fiscal problems. It seemed obvious, as soon as the commission's membership was announced, that "bipartisanship" would mean what it so often does in Washington: a compromise between the center-right and the hard-right.

My misgivings increased as we got a better feel for the views of the commission's co-chairmen. It soon became clear that Erskine Bowles, the Democratic co-chairman, had a very Republican-sounding small-government agenda. Meanwhile, Alan Simpson, the Republican co-chairman, revealed the kind of honest broker he is by sending an abusive e-mail to the executive director of the National Older Women's League in which he described Social Security as being "like a milk cow with 310 million tits."

What the co-chairmen are proposing is a mixture of tax cuts and tax increases - tax cuts for the wealthy, tax increases for the middle class. They suggest eliminating tax breaks that, whatever you think of them, matter a lot to middle-class Americans - the deductibility of health benefits and mortgage interest - and using much of the revenue gained thereby, not to reduce the deficit, but to allow sharp reductions in both the top marginal tax rate and in the corporate tax rate.

This proposal clearly represents a major transfer of income upward, from the middle class to a small minority of wealthy Americans.

This is the bipartisan consensus, people.
 
2012-12-31 03:41:23 PM

phaseolus: Evidently defense dollars are manly dollars, or something.


Manly? Watch where you swing that word around. Remember what happened with "shovel-ready?"
 
2012-12-31 03:41:27 PM

ZombieApocalypseKitten: Please close Pandroa's box. We don't want hope to come out. Or anything else to come out of her box.


That's right. Keep it stuffed and happy.
 
2012-12-31 03:41:35 PM

Strolpol: Some of you folks don't recognize posturing when you see it.

Obama knows that the House Republicans aren't going to come together. This is a false hope that's being dangled out there in order to give Americans the image of him being hopeful and conciliatory, rather than antagonistic and resigned to going over the cliff.

This will keep the blame deflected to Republicans, and also give him a great base upon which to launch next year's Obama Tax Cut for 98% of Americans, which Republicans will find ruination upon no matter what they do.


this is exactly how the Dems kept control of the House in 2010.  They were blaming the GOP for everything.
It also worked as the Dems kept control of the House and gained more governorship seats in 2012.
 
2012-12-31 03:41:48 PM

Somacandra: kitsuneymg: Leaving puzzled.

[i.imgur.com image 500x532]

Possibly because the first and last frame contain filter evasions of NSFW language?
/farksafe version


Correct. First one was initially up a few posts in.
 
2012-12-31 03:42:16 PM
OK can someone explain the Fiscal Cliff deadlines to me?

Cause if this happens, it looks like it's gonna happen that some time zones that meet a midnight Dec 31st deadline and not others.

"Well, it looks like the Eastern seaboard has gone over the Fiscal Cliff, we managed to save Mountain and Pacific. Central was lost to the Fiscal Cliff by only 38 seconds. Bravely, Obama had jumped to the edge and caught it by a single hand, yet ultimately the weight of an entire time zone already passed proved too great. The anguish on his face was palpable as his solid grasp slipped from wrist to hand and then only fingertips and then slipped and he could do nothing but watch it freefall and bash on the rocks below and be dragged off by the crashing waves lapping at the rocks."
 
2012-12-31 03:42:27 PM
pontechango: [quoting] Unlike most of the liberal dissent of the past, the new dissent not only has no respect for non-conformism, but is based upon a relentless demand for conformity. It can most accurately be called pseudo-conservative -

I'm not a fan of Adorno in general, but I would agree with this. It seems to fit a definition of "REACTIONARY" to me. American reactionaries of course will be different than the classical type. Both the far right (and what passes for) the far left in this country were disgusted by the bailouts and the corporate socialism of TARP and other late Bush-era steps to address the liquidity crunch.
 
2012-12-31 03:42:53 PM

The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: That part is probably mostly true. Go on a site like Redfin.com and search for available houses in Montgomery. I'd wager you won't find much for less than 350k, particularly if you want 3bedrooms or more. But then 350k should be readily affordable to someone making even half the 250k mentioned.


42 results with 3+ bedrooms... and that's with a price cap of 200k. I understand it's an expensive area in general, and the desirable parts are very expensive, but the greater point is that just because there's a market nearby that caters to the filthy rich doesn't mean that 250k/yr makes you "low middle income".
 
2012-12-31 03:43:17 PM
How cool would it be if Grover Norquist called a press conference in his bathroom and went 'Budd Dwyer' by drowning himself in the tub?

I'd wager not a single reporter would intervene.
 
2012-12-31 03:43:26 PM
imageshack.us

Nissin Cup O Noodles running low...

Send Check soon...


/good news, that thing on my neck is almost healed
 
2012-12-31 03:43:39 PM
the fed authority is meaningful and just.

this shiat is beyond pointless and whatever "deal" they come to will be meaningless by tomorrow, just buying time.

"Exactly. If only there was a simple way to make the cutoff location-adjusted."

you mean like deciding tax rates based on an inflation adjusted basket of neccessarry commodoties? duuurrrrrr.. nominal tax rates are for the dumbs, like any of you that think this shiat matters.

see you on the other side, theres no possible way they cut enough.

scrub those statistics, make that turd shiiiiine.

idiots
 
2012-12-31 03:43:42 PM
BullBearMS:
Count me among those who always believed that President Obama made a big mistake when he created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform -

No, he made a mistake by ignoring their recommendations.
 
2012-12-31 03:44:31 PM

Uranus Is Huge!: Also Somacandra, I feel like I was unnecessarily snarky. I have you favorited in Reasonable Cyan 4, not Potato Farm Red 4...Happy Holidays!


Happy holidays to you as well. I didn't take any snark from it, and perhaps I was too snarky in my own reply :-).
 
2012-12-31 03:45:36 PM

Bennie Crabtree: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

That is not "moderately" by any quantitative definition. Perhaps you should look at the basic average incomes of families in the USA to get some perspective on how wealthy you are.


So what? I make around 60k and by noones definition would I be considered poor. Yet I pay next to nothing in income taxes. How is that even remotely fair?
 
2012-12-31 03:46:11 PM

GoldSpider: Waxing_Chewbacca: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

It's a good deal. 250k in NYC is a lot different than, say, Iowa.

/ Moderate D here

Exactly. If only there was a simple way to make the cutoff location-adjusted.


It a way it is due to mortgage deduction. But that needs to be fixed, our make it a deduction on rent or mortgage.
 
2012-12-31 03:46:50 PM

phaseolus: wombatsrus: Well, every time there is serious talk about cutting military spending, the only cry I hear is "so many jobs will be lost!" and little or nothing else about any other reason. For example, I haven't anything about how the "fiscal cliff" will impact defending ourselves, but all about how defense contractors will have to fire folks due to projects being cancelled.

Yet whenever someone proposes spending public funds to upgrade crumbling bridges and other infrastructure which incidentally puts people to work, those same people are against it.

Evidently defense dollars are manly dollars, or something.


In my opinion it is much easier to overrun defense contracts and get away with it than infrastructure contracts. Politicians will get up in arms with infrastructure cost overruns, but say nothing when it happens with defense contracts.
 
2012-12-31 03:47:15 PM

lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.


Pay your farking taxes and be proud of the fact that you're contributing to society.
 
2012-12-31 03:47:17 PM

Wangiss: Orange-Pippin: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

Taxes is not a penalty. It's part of living in a civilized non-pit of horse poo. We (about 90% of America) have supported your tax breaks with, cuts to social programs, education, infrastructure (not to mention corporate welfare) for years. It's time to pay your due. Sorry, but as much as you guys think your supporting us, we are tired of supporting you.

...by taking less and less of your money.


For the record, paying taxes is not "taking" anything. As an American I pay up and now it's your turn. Sorry.
 
2012-12-31 03:47:46 PM

Waxing_Chewbacca: GoldSpider: Waxing_Chewbacca: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

It's a good deal. 250k in NYC is a lot different than, say, Iowa.

/ Moderate D here

Exactly. If only there was a simple way to make the cutoff location-adjusted.

Tough to do but I'm listening.


This might be stupid, but how about "top 2% by voting district" instead of "top 2% of all US earners."

/I expect the full helping of Fark economist scorn for this one.
 
2012-12-31 03:47:54 PM

CruJones: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: "The deal in the works would return tax rates on families making over $450,000 to 39.6 percent. The tax on estates worth more than $5 million would increase to 40 percent. Unemployment benefits would continue for one year."

What about dividends and capital gains? You know - the way wealthy folk derive their incomes and have been taxed at 15% for the last decade or so.

I'm not wealthy but I invest in the market, as does most everyone I know to some degree. Raising the taxes by 33% will affect future decisions and investments.


Sure, because if they tax your investment returns at that rate, you may as well pull everything out of the market and put it in a bank's interest-bearing checking account at 3%, right? Anything else would just be feeding the welfare babies (and farm subsidies and defense contractors).

How about we quit this charade of earnings, deductions, and taxes already. How about we define any increase in wealth as income and tax it at a flat rate. No more deductions. No more clever definitions of what is income and what is not. None of these bait-and-switch BS scams created by bankers and financiers to keep the rich guy rich and make the rest of us turn his the farking wheel in his factory. They raise the taxes then give us a "deduction" to make us think we're getting away with something. These Flexible Spending Accounts? What a farking shell game THAT crap is. Oh, look! You get to use PRE-tax money to pay for these everyday things you need (and sometimes cannot live without). Such a deal for you. Bullshiat.

You want to give me a deal? Quit the farking carnival "guess my expense" game and just let me submit my farking receipts at the end of the year, deducting it from my taxes. I don't mind spending my taxed money to get the stuff up front, if it all comes out the same at the end, and some farking money manager isn't having fun on my dime while I'm hoping I guessed right and don't end up losing what I over-budgeted.

And quit subsidizing every goddamn thing with the Fed money.
 
2012-12-31 03:48:01 PM

sonnyboy11: lenfromak: sonnyboy11: Please do not set it at $400k and up. Stay at $250k. Thx

Yeah, penalize even moderately successful people like me.

I would be hit. Don't have a problem with it. Taxes are not a "penalty".


A progressive income tax is.
 
2012-12-31 03:48:14 PM
I'm not getting my hopes up until it passes the House and heads to the Senate.
 
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